| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
cheapie |
Either way, but as long as it was reported promptly-ish we'd usually ignore people exploiting it for a while. |
| 00:00 |
erle |
i once found a duping mechanism. it was just a hole in the ground. |
| 00:00 |
erle |
but i deduced it must have been a duping mechanism because it was surrounded by chests of TNT |
| 00:01 |
cheapie |
Of course now I mostly play on a creative server instead, where duplicating items is just "put it in that slot in the inventory that says 'refill'" |
| 00:03 |
erle |
cheapie with a simple off-by-one error in any kind of inventory accounting, every server is a creative server |
| 00:04 |
erle |
i once duped items on a server only to realize that every legit player had MUCH more than i ever duped of most stuff |
| 00:04 |
erle |
turns out stuff like gold and copper and iron and cobble just accumulates |
| 00:04 |
erle |
when you are not doing “creative” stuff with it |
| 00:05 |
cheapie |
VE-S had cobble reach "I will pay you to take this levels" a few times before |
| 00:05 |
cheapie |
this" levels* |
| 00:05 |
erle |
lmao |
| 00:05 |
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| 00:05 |
erle |
i think voxelibre has “compressed cobble” so people can store their cobble better |
| 00:05 |
cheapie |
That one has that too, it still did |
| 00:05 |
erle |
the trick is ofc to make giant smelters (in mineclonia, smelting stuff gives xp) |
| 00:06 |
cheapie |
IIRC the eventual solution was to add some moderately complex crafting recipe chains to turn it into more useful things. |
| 00:06 |
erle |
i think i should make the spawn dispenser machine again on some server |
| 00:06 |
erle |
fill it with powered rails and minecarts |
| 00:06 |
erle |
press button, receive rail |
| 00:06 |
erle |
that way the server will get a public transport network organically, i hope lol |
| 00:07 |
erle |
cheapie do you have shulkers on that server? |
| 00:07 |
erle |
clamity anarchy had not only shulker chests, but *recursive* shulker chests |
| 00:07 |
cheapie |
If it's anything like VE-C, said "network" will probably end up just being tracks going off in random directions, up the sides of buildings, crossing roads only to turn around and cross again in the other direction... |
| 00:07 |
erle |
turns out there is such a thing as overlong meta for item entities, but it is only an issue when they get unloaded. items in inventories are fine. |
| 00:08 |
cheapie |
No idea what a "shulker" is |
| 00:08 |
erle |
a shulker is a portable chest. on digging, it serializes its inventory and adds it to item meta. |
| 00:08 |
erle |
on placement, it deserializes the meta to inventory. |
| 00:08 |
cheapie |
VE-S had the technic wrenches at the time, those let you do it with arbitrary chests |
| 00:08 |
erle |
a shulker chest contains an entire player-inventory-minus-hotbar inventory |
| 00:09 |
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| 00:09 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> it's literally from minecraft though |
| 00:10 |
cheapie |
At one point I had a basalt+pumice generator that automatically packed both of them into chests, then used the wrench to pick up the chest and put it in /another/ chest to be picked up by players. It also automatically repaired the wrenches and grew trees that it crafted into more chests. |
| 00:11 |
erle |
theidealist that is because mineclonia is basically a minecraft clone (plus a few quality-of-life enhancements like screwdriver and crafting interface tweaks) |
| 00:11 |
erle |
cheapie so what does a wrench do? |
| 00:11 |
cheapie |
Lets you pick up (as in, place in inventory) arbitrary chests with their contents still in them |
| 00:11 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> I am aware |
| 00:12 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> just confused how cheapie can not know what a shulker is |
| 00:12 |
erle |
maybe not a mineclonia player |
| 00:12 |
erle |
or voxelibre player |
| 00:12 |
cheapie |
I don't like any of the MCL* games |
| 00:12 |
erle |
or mineclone 2/5 player |
| 00:12 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> or minecraft player |
| 00:12 |
erle |
cheapie why? |
| 00:12 |
erle |
having used the mineclonia crafting enhancements i don't understand why voxelibre does not copy it |
| 00:12 |
erle |
it has two buttons |
| 00:12 |
erle |
one says “fill crafting grid with recipe”. this is pretty standard. |
| 00:12 |
cheapie |
Because I prefer the MTG family of games |
| 00:13 |
erle |
but VL does not have it |
| 00:13 |
erle |
the other one says “fill crafting grid for current recipe to maximum capacity” |
| 00:13 |
erle |
so you can craft lots of rails or so |
| 00:13 |
cheapie |
IIRC UI has buttons like that, but three of them, 1/10/All or something like that |
| 00:16 |
erle |
yeah |
| 00:16 |
erle |
lots of good inventory mods have that |
| 00:16 |
erle |
i just don't get why VL does not |
| 00:17 |
erle |
cheapie what do you not like about the mcl games? also, do you like nodecore? |
| 00:17 |
erle |
the nodecore lens system is pretty cute |
| 00:17 |
erle |
Warr1024 do you have any intention to provide the lens thing without nodecore? |
| 00:18 |
erle |
hmm, nodecore mirrors |
| 00:18 |
cheapie |
I could say lots of things about NC and they're mostly not good things |
| 00:19 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> but how much of it is because its not your jam? |
| 00:19 |
erle |
2 hard 4 u? |
| 00:19 |
erle |
yeah, nodecore is polarizing |
| 00:19 |
erle |
my friend li0n likes hyperrogue. but nodecore is too hard. cora also doesn't like it. |
| 00:20 |
cheapie |
re: MCL - most of it is that I'm /not here to play Minecraft/, if I was I'd just play Minecraft |
| 00:20 |
erle |
there is a difference between “not my jam” and the zughy-style opinion “this game is bad because it is too hard, a proper game should *not* be that hard from the beginning, but ramp up difficulty slower to get everyone on board” |
| 00:21 |
cheapie |
I also don't really care for how it actually tries to be a full game with a bunch of content, I'd rather have it stay out of the way and let me add whatever I want in the form of other mods. MTG does that. |
| 00:21 |
erle |
(see zughy's game jam reviews if you don't know what i mean) |
| 00:21 |
erle |
some games don't *want* to get everyone on board |
| 00:22 |
erle |
cheapie i see, you don't like games that feel like they are an autorenfilm by the programmer equivalent of werner herzog |
| 00:22 |
cheapie |
Of course the MTG family of games is also just what I'm used to, I've been playing them for around 10 years now. |
| 00:23 |
erle |
cheapie do you like mesecraft? |
| 00:23 |
cheapie |
Never tried it |
| 00:23 |
cheapie |
Usually I end up playing Dreambuilder, which is a mod soup piled on top of MTG |
| 00:23 |
erle |
mesecraft is high quality MTG modsoup |
| 00:23 |
erle |
from how it feels |
| 00:23 |
erle |
it *does* have poop |
| 00:23 |
erle |
cows poop and you can turn this into fertilizer |
| 00:24 |
erle |
also it has cute things like a portal to the moon |
| 00:24 |
erle |
moon is airless |
| 00:24 |
erle |
cheapie bottom right screenshot is mesecraft on the moon http://daten.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/pics/zeichnungen/stop-doing-minetest.svg.png |
| 00:25 |
cheapie |
...now I'm imagining you writing some big long review of that and putting down at the bottom: "Pros: * has poop" |
| 00:26 |
erle |
i think maybe there should be a world flag for “gravity is pointing towards the origin” |
| 00:26 |
erle |
i implemented that once actually |
| 00:27 |
erle |
to play around with the funny cube world generator |
| 00:27 |
erle |
turns out that yes, orbiting is possible |
| 00:27 |
erle |
but also, unfortunately, “which way is up” is suddenly important |
| 00:27 |
erle |
gravity not aligning with the notion of “up” is problematic |
| 00:27 |
cheapie |
https://xkcd.com/2310/ |
| 00:27 |
erle |
and there are several *very good* reasons to not give players arbitrarily more degrees of freedom |
| 00:28 |
erle |
(like with a lot of problems, you start noticing them once you get into the implementation details of why you only want a limited degree of freedom in the first place) |
| 00:29 |
* cheapie |
heads off to sleep |
| 00:29 |
erle |
cheapie do you like “fine structure” by qntm? might be your thing: https://qntm.org/structure |
| 00:57 |
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| 13:27 |
whosit |
can someone explain how API calls can return "nothing" instead of nil when used in coroutine? I'm not sure I understand enough about lua to explain this: |
| 13:27 |
whosit |
select("#", coroutine.resume(coroutine.create(function() return nil end))) -> returns 2, i.e (true, nil) |
| 13:28 |
whosit |
select("#", coroutine.resume(coroutine.create(function() return core.colorspec_to_colorstring() end))) -> returns 1, just (true) |
| 13:29 |
whosit |
(using luajit) |
| 13:30 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> you mean there's actually a difference between nil and nothing |
| 13:31 |
whosit |
yes, I can distinguish "nil" returned by a call to core.blah() from "lua nil" |
| 13:32 |
whosit |
using select("#", ...) |
| 13:33 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> what does select do |
| 13:33 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> never heard of it before |
| 13:34 |
whosit |
well, technically it's the coroutine returning "nothing" |
| 13:34 |
whosit |
reference for select: https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-select |
| 13:35 |
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| 13:37 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> ah okay so select takes one argument for the index and variable number of other arguments, and returns the arguments starting from that index; or if you give it "#" it returns the number of arguments |
| 13:38 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> lol I've always just stuffed the arguments into a table and looked at that whenever I want to do this, but I suppose that considers nil and nothing the same |
| 13:38 |
sfan5 |
whosit: does that only happen in coroutines? |
| 13:38 |
whosit |
yes compared to #{...}, you can use select to count number of args in "..." even when there are nils there |
| 13:38 |
sfan5 |
generally the luanti api does not consistently return nothing or nil |
| 13:39 |
whosit |
sfan5: I didn't check actually X) |
| 13:39 |
whosit |
so, returning "nothing" is a thing and it's normal? |
| 13:40 |
whosit |
I just had to add a special case for this in my code and it felt weird... |
| 13:40 |
Ingar |
"what's in the case?" - "nothing" perfectly valid answer :p |
| 13:41 |
whosit |
select("#", (function() return core.colorspec_to_colorstring() end)()) -> 0 :D |
| 13:41 |
whosit |
so, "nothing" is a thing :) |
| 13:41 |
sfan5 |
you shouldn't try to distinguish between nothing and nil |
| 13:42 |
whosit |
so it's just inconsistency in C api... |
| 13:42 |
sfan5 |
the api functions don't either |
| 13:43 |
whosit |
well, I just have a special case for when coroutine returns single value or multiple (to display them properly) and found out it can return "nothing" and I need to create my own single "nil" for this case :p |
| 13:43 |
sfan5 |
well that's okay |
| 13:43 |
sfan5 |
just tried nothing as a single nil |
| 13:43 |
sfan5 |
treat* |
| 13:46 |
whosit |
I'm writing an /eval chatcommand with some QoL features :) |
| 14:01 |
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| 14:32 |
whosit |
It makes even more sense in this case actually: select("#", loadstring("x = 1")()) -> 0 |
| 14:33 |
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| 14:35 |
whosit |
but in case of `colorspec_to_colorstring` still feels weird |
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| 21:21 |
celeron55 |
https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/tg7I5MrLYqvM.png?o=1 |
| 21:21 |
celeron55 |
this is hands down the funniest email i've received this year |
| 21:23 |
rubenwardy |
wait, we have a ROI? |
| 21:23 |
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| 21:34 |
ireallyhateirc |
hello fellow Open Sores softwares |
| 21:35 |
ireallyhateirc |
Automatically available? |
| 21:36 |
ireallyhateirc |
like what, will they compile Luanti and put a "trusted" binary on their PC play store? Or are they using some kind of compatibility layer to run android version? |
| 21:39 |
dio |
My guess is that they're using a compatibility layer |
| 21:40 |
celeron55 |
we already compile Luanti for x86 android |
| 21:40 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> its funny how much of computing is emultation/translation all the way down |
| 21:41 |
celeron55 |
google just allows running it on PC with something that's a bit like wine, but for android instead of windows |
| 21:41 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I assume it is just an official repackaging of the android sdk emulator for end users by google, QEMU-based virtual machine with some secret sauce and an ARM emulation layer for native libraries |
| 21:41 |
celeron55 |
of course it could net us some users, which is positive. but technically it's weird |
| 21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I'm pretty happy that google is finally bringing a quality first-party android emulator not primarily targeted at app developers and android enthusiasts |
| 21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> but it's likely going to be more useful for android-only games |
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