| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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ireallyhateirc |
and if they use only one material? |
| 00:41 |
ireallyhateirc |
then "probably no" is the logical consequence |
| 00:41 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> a single mesh buffer is pretty much ideal for performance |
| 00:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
take a seat: https://files.catbox.moe/k9fe19.png |
| 00:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
luatic, it's still one mesh, it's just not a single plane. Idk how that affects buffers |
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ireallyhateirc |
Hmmmmm I have a bug where a newly created 3D model turns black when I start breaking it |
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ireallyhateirc |
other 3D models done basically the same way are not affected |
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MTDiscord |
<bastrabun> Since the report function in the forum seems not to work, how do I report spam threads? |
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[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> bastrabun: You pm me for spam reports, I was brought on as a moderator to deal with it. But I'm always checking the new threads anyway, so I'll probably get to it within 24h usually |
| 10:17 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> just took care of one, probably the one you saw earlier |
| 10:22 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> make that fourm PM/matrix DM or IRC I guess.. but by the time I see a forum PM I'm already looking through the unread post list |
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| 10:31 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> forum pro tip for anyone who likes to read it all like me: At the top of each page there's a "Quick links" button, under that is "Unread posts" which shows you all your unread posts. |
| 10:31 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I'm not saying I've read every forum post ever. But one day I accidentally marked it all as read (there's a button on the home page for that) |
| 10:31 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> and after that I now just have an unread post feed |
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MTDiscord |
<_devsh_> imagine if you could still draw all triangles in a single drawcall and cull together but was able to change the material on a per-triangle basis :mind_blown: |
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| 13:00 |
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| 13:22 |
whosit |
why this code gives me "<file> already exists in media cache" error when there 2 or more players? https://pastebin.com/XErkTmtW |
| 13:23 |
whosit |
if I set ephemeral = false, error goes away, but, according to API, it should be possible to send same file multiple times if it's sent to different players? |
| 13:24 |
whosit |
(use case: trying to just dymaically load temporary texture only to the people who can see it) |
| 13:25 |
whosit |
what's more strange, if I add ~3+ second delay, I can send same texture with ephemeral=true |
| 13:26 |
whosit |
have a full repro, just tell me where to put it, if interested :p |
| 13:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> whosit: i don't see why your code would only send it to different players. you always send to all players. |
| 13:45 |
whosit |
this is a minimal repro to trigger the error |
| 13:45 |
erle |
luatic are you aware of the dynamic media trick where you make stuff look different for different players? |
| 13:46 |
whosit |
I expect to be able to send it more than once with `to_player` set. What happens: it errors on second send to another player |
| 13:46 |
erle |
luatic or where you send stuff only once it is necessary? |
| 13:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: i am aware of the possibility of such tricks, yes |
| 13:46 |
erle |
also sending to all players may leak info |
| 13:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ofc |
| 13:47 |
erle |
e.g. map data, sign text etc. |
| 13:47 |
erle |
(i mean in-game maps a la mcl_maps and xmaps) |
| 13:51 |
whosit |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/b63e988bd60089b5f0595442b974886c17d5e1c9/doc/lua_api.md?plain=1#L7139 |
| 13:52 |
whosit |
this says I should be able to do this, but I get 'ERROR[Server]: Server::dynamicAddMedia(): file "unique_texture.png" already exists in media cache' |
| 13:52 |
whosit |
if I don't wait 3+ seconds between doing dynamic_add_media() |
| 13:53 |
whosit |
(with ephemaral=true) |
| 13:58 |
erle |
oh lol, commit d4b107e2e85d7d7a36e1b75122e4c94193b98e09 is comedy gold API design |
| 14:00 |
erle |
whosit quick test, does it work before that commit or did it never work? |
| 14:01 |
whosit |
hmm, I'll try |
| 14:02 |
erle |
whosit i am asking because the code checks for ephemeral before and after, so i don't see how that would change much, but it's a recent change. |
| 14:03 |
erle |
and i don't see any test case so maybe it broke (if it ever worked with ephemeral at all, which i am unsure about) |
| 14:03 |
erle |
like, you see in server.cpp ephemeral is special cased there |
| 14:04 |
whosit |
what I see is this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/d4b107e2e85d7d7a36e1b75122e4c94193b98e09#diff-d0ecb51621381529aa2b31bb04fecee4a1b1b7dc0be53978c4878f2c4d4bfe1fL3579 |
| 14:04 |
whosit |
this condition is unchanged, and it does not take into account `to_player` field |
| 14:04 |
erle |
whosit look for the phrase “media cache” in src/server.cpp. the surrounding code explicitly does ephemeral special casing |
| 14:04 |
whosit |
but I didn't read rest of the code :p |
| 14:04 |
erle |
and has done since 2021 |
| 14:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> "Regardless of any use of ephemeral, adding media files with the same name twice is not possible/guaranteed to work. An exception to this is the use of to_player to send the same, already existent file to multiple chosen players." |
| 14:05 |
whosit |
yes, second sentence contradicts how it actually works |
| 14:05 |
erle |
well there are no test cases, so you can assume it does not |
| 14:06 |
erle |
or are there? |
| 14:06 |
erle |
(can't find any, maybe they are somewhere else where i have not looked?) |
| 14:07 |
erle |
luatic it makes sense that same name file is not guaranteed to work for one player, but i don't see the special casing of multiple players here in the code. you see it? |
| 14:10 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> whosit: I don't see a contradiction in the docs. The docs don't seem to be allowing your use case currently. (Sending different files to different players under the same name.) I assume this is because the server has something like a global media cache rather than a per-player media cache. |
| 14:11 |
erle |
where do the 3 seconds come from then? |
| 14:11 |
erle |
luatic the docs don't contradict themselves, they contradict the lived experience of whosit |
| 14:11 |
erle |
(and, arguably, the code) |
| 14:11 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I don't know, maybe it's dropping things from this cache once it's sure they have arrived. This is UB either way. |
| 14:12 |
erle |
where do you see UB? |
| 14:12 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> not C(++) UB, luanti UB |
| 14:12 |
erle |
oh |
| 14:13 |
whosit |
I am _not_ seding different media to specific players under same name, I send same media with same name with `to_player` and `ephemeral=true` |
| 14:14 |
erle |
luatic btw i have come to a new perspective regarding testing and API exploration: if someone plays an instrument, they don't always play on stage or in front of an audience, they do deliberate practice. because of this, writing tests and exploring API use cases and considering every possibility on a hobbyist level is not the “NASA style we should dot every i and cross every t” thing people think, it is merely the equivalent of practicing, but for coders. |
| 14:15 |
erle |
this also explains why people without any formal education in programming produce vastly higher quality code when simply forced to test and explore edge cases, while people who have 10 to 20 years industry experience and get paid for such stuff fail fizz buzz (or any trivial task, really), if they don't believe in deliberate practice (mostly they say it is a waste of time) |
| 14:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> whosit: you are sending the same media again to players that already have it?? |
| 14:15 |
whosit |
no, I send it only once. |
| 14:16 |
erle |
https://pastebin.com/XErkTmtW luatic look at the code |
| 14:16 |
erle |
it iterates players |
| 14:16 |
erle |
sends same to everyone |
| 14:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> i looked at that code. you're saying if you invoke that once it triggers an error? |
| 14:16 |
whosit |
yes. |
| 14:16 |
erle |
have you tried it luatic? |
| 14:16 |
erle |
is whosit mistaken? |
| 14:17 |
whosit |
it will error if there are at least 2 players |
| 14:18 |
erle |
luatic check line 3627ff of server.cpp |
| 14:18 |
erle |
first you have |
| 14:18 |
erle |
3627auto it = m_media.find(filename); |
| 14:18 |
erle |
then you have |
| 14:18 |
erle |
3628if (it != m_media.end()) { |
| 14:19 |
erle |
etc. |
| 14:24 |
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| 14:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> hmm |
| 14:25 |
whosit |
https://pastebin.com/DPAbdVAR |
| 14:25 |
whosit |
minimal repro you can plug in and try |
| 14:25 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> // Allow the same path to be "added" again in certain conditions if (a.ephemeral || it->second.path != filepath) { /* error */ } shouldn't it be !a.ephemeral? |
| 14:26 |
whosit |
yes, that comment is confusing :) |
| 14:26 |
whosit |
I tried changing that condition to allow it - and got some assertion crash later |
| 14:48 |
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| 16:08 |
whosit |
minetest-git/src/server.cpp:2772: void Server::stepPendingDynMediaCallbacks(float): Assertion `m_media.count(name)' failed. |
| 16:10 |
whosit |
I'm not even sure what it's trying to delete (I don't use any files, I generate textures on the fly) |
| 16:11 |
whosit |
(this is with patched server, bypassing that check) |
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| 16:37 |
sfan5 |
your example code is faulty because "default_stick.png" - being from a textures folder in a different mod - is already collected by the engine as a media file at startup |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:38 |
whosit |
it triggers same error as my actual mod though... |
| 16:38 |
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| 16:38 |
whosit |
what I'm trying to do: I have a "display" entity, that fetches it's texture via http |
| 16:39 |
whosit |
I don't want to litter people's cache directories with textures that are used only once, so I set ephemeral=true |
| 16:40 |
whosit |
I also don't want to spam people's connections if they're not anywhere near this display - so I do add_dynamic_media selectively |
| 16:40 |
whosit |
I use "filedata" option and don't cache new texture on the filesystem either |
| 16:41 |
whosit |
name of the texture is unique each time it's updated |
| 16:42 |
whosit |
if two people are near this display when it changes pictures - only one person can get it, rest trigger the error mentioned |
| 16:42 |
sfan5 |
if the name is unique how could this error possibly happen? |
| 16:43 |
whosit |
it's unique frame00.png frame01.png, not player1_frame00.png player2_frame00.png |
| 16:44 |
whosit |
because they all observe same entity, right? |
| 16:46 |
sfan5 |
I see |
| 16:47 |
whosit |
API says: "An exception to [not being able to send files with same name twice] is the use of to_player to send the same, already existent file to multiple chosen players." |
| 16:47 |
whosit |
but the code only checks if name is the same |
| 16:47 |
whosit |
and errors |
| 16:48 |
sfan5 |
the answer is that adding identical files with the same name never works with `filedata` (or `ephemeral` for that matter) and the docs are not clear on this edge case |
| 16:49 |
whosit |
so... my use case is impossible without filling up cache with garbage? |
| 16:50 |
whosit |
I can't make texture names unique per player as a workaround - they observe same "display" entity, and it's texture parameter is same for everyone |
| 16:52 |
sfan5 |
at the moment this is correct |
| 16:52 |
whosit |
and then I don't understand what that sentence from API means at all, it's just wrong then? |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
it should say "An exception to this is the use of to_player (only with ephemeral=false) to send the same, already existent file to multiple chosen players." |
| 16:54 |
sfan5 |
and "the same" needs to be clarified to mean the same `filepath`. passing the same `filedata` twice won't work either |
| 16:55 |
whosit |
with ephemeral=false, filedata seemed to work... I will re-check again |
| 16:55 |
sfan5 |
anyway feel free to file a bug |
| 16:56 |
whosit |
if I can get into github, I will X) |
| 16:59 |
whosit |
hmm, does not look like setting ephemeral=false works... |
| 16:59 |
whosit |
what's strange, I didn't notice the issue before I set all delays to 0 |
| 17:00 |
whosit |
so I was sending same filedata under same name to multiple people just fine - I assume because it was cleared from this cache between sends... |
| 17:05 |
whosit |
it's a bit weird... I made a prototype according to the docs, we even tested it (with 2 players watching the thing) it worked... and now it turns out it's impossible :D |
| 17:17 |
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MinetestBot |
[git] RichardTry -> minetest/minetest: Typo in lua_api.md (#15440) 946b3a4 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/946b3a422272d680d5d9d9a208bb0ffedce0291f (2024-11-20T18:36:35Z) |
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| 21:33 |
erle |
can a game depend on a mod? |
| 21:33 |
ROllerozxa |
sure, but it won't be pretty |
| 21:34 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> You can make a mod in the game depend on a mod then make the other mods depend on that mod and cry if you ever have to modify this lol |
| 21:34 |
ROllerozxa |
ContentDB rejects games that contain unsatisfied dependencies because the engine makes no effort to satisfy the dependency |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> You could make it optional to get around this and crash the game if a certain thing isn't there |
| 21:35 |
erle |
i am asking because of debian |
| 21:35 |
erle |
https://wiki.debian.org/UpstreamGuide#No_inclusion_of_third_party_code |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Debian is very mean to us |
| 21:35 |
erle |
haha tell |
| 21:35 |
erle |
i was asking in #debian-games on OFTC about packaging one of the bigger games |
| 21:36 |
erle |
and was told well, vendored copies … |
| 21:36 |
ROllerozxa |
haha |
| 21:36 |
ROllerozxa |
anyways exile did this with naturalslopeslib a long long time ago leading to the game booting up to a broken mess out of the box with little information for players that you need to manually install and enable an external mod for each world |
| 21:36 |
ROllerozxa |
it ended up being resolved by adding the mod as a submodule to the game. which is what you usually should do when wanting to add third party mods into your game |
| 21:37 |
erle |
ROllerozxa well subtree also exists and is less hassle IMO for this kind of thing, but yeah |
| 21:39 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> How we put substree in the dependency class |
| 21:40 |
erle |
it's a git thing |
| 21:42 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> That sounds like an implementation detail for the game developer and it's their fault if they don't do this |
| 21:43 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> But, then again, they can also just dump the folder into the game |
| 21:45 |
erle |
jordan4ibanez, yes i hate it |
| 21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Git is a cruel mistress |
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MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> debians packaging of minetest/luanti games/mods is are worth avoiding |
| 23:15 |
ireallyhateirc |
is it possible to add an offset to nodes? |
| 23:16 |
ireallyhateirc |
I'd like to add different offset to different instances of the same node |
| 23:16 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> would have to use a custom model, but sure |
| 23:16 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> then no |
| 23:16 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> you would need different node defs for each offset |
| 23:17 |
ireallyhateirc |
but the offset can be defined in nodedef or only in the 3D model? |
| 23:18 |
[MatrxMT] |
<🇬regon> It can only be random, but see my mod that adds that |
| 23:18 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> only in 3d model iirc, dont quote me on that its not possible with normal node |
| 23:19 |
[MatrxMT] |
<🇬regon> https://content.luanti.org/packages/Gregon/mcl_random_plant_positions/ |
| 23:19 |
ireallyhateirc |
🇬regon, link? |
| 23:19 |
ireallyhateirc |
ah thanks |
| 23:20 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> meshoptions only works with plantlife, so not applicable to normal nodes |
| 23:22 |
ireallyhateirc |
ok so my options are: 1. doing several meshes with different offset manually or by writing a script 2. making a feature request for param2 type "offset" or something like that |
| 23:22 |
ireallyhateirc |
the use case is a table with nonstandard height |
| 23:23 |
ireallyhateirc |
I'd like to still be able to place items on it |
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