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| 19:12 |
cheapie |
That world where I was generating the whole thing finished, here's the map (at 0.1x scale so the file isn't huge): https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/gentest-small.png |
| 19:13 |
cheapie |
The full-size map is here, but it's a 1GB PNG file and your browser may just explode if you try to open it: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/gentest.png |
| 19:17 |
celeron55_ |
hmm, i don't think my firefox is using a lot of memory to show this 58 MB file so trying the bigger one seems like my kind of fun |
| 19:18 |
ireallyhateirc |
for oversized files GIMP and feh are good |
| 19:19 |
celeron55_ |
for sure, but how wrong is the tool for the job if it still works |
| 19:21 |
celeron55_ |
for what i can see, firefox seems to be insanely efficient at dealing with this image... ah, i can see what it did when i zoomed in: it cheated |
| 19:21 |
ireallyhateirc |
meanwhile feh chokes |
| 19:21 |
celeron55_ |
it converted the image to a smaller resolution as it downloaded it, and when zoomed to 100%, it's just a blurry mess |
| 19:21 |
ireallyhateirc |
weird, I opened bigger files with it |
| 19:22 |
ireallyhateirc |
GIMP does the job but loading the picture takes 1 minute |
| 19:24 |
ireallyhateirc |
lol it died |
| 19:26 |
ireallyhateirc |
something's wrong with this file, I opened 4GB andromeda galaxy photos in GIMP in the past |
| 19:26 |
ireallyhateirc |
I'll try firefox |
| 19:27 |
ireallyhateirc |
celeron55_, lol I missed your "to show this 58 MB file" |
| 19:28 |
ireallyhateirc |
I tried opening the 1GB one and firefox can't do it either |
| 19:28 |
Krock |
JPEG compression or chunking might be a better approach for such large images |
| 19:29 |
ireallyhateirc |
I usually see .tiff images that are over 50MB |
| 19:30 |
Krock |
cheapie: how long did it take to generate this? |
| 19:30 |
Krock |
(this = the world) |
| 19:31 |
cheapie |
Krock: It wasn't running nonstop, but I was giving it /emergeblocks commands on and off for about a week. I only generated from Y=-50 to +300. |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
looking at this map makes me think that mountains could be larger, resulting in more extreme landscape |
| 19:32 |
cheapie |
I wish they were /smaller/, with default mgv7 settings the landscape is already ridiculous from on the ground. |
| 19:34 |
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| 19:34 |
cheapie |
This is probably my second-biggest complaint about MT in general after client performance - nearly everyone uses mgv7 since it's the default, and mgv7 is terrible. |
| 19:35 |
cheapie |
6 is somewhat better but has some of its own problems. |
| 19:36 |
Krock |
defaults will always look terrible because they're overused |
| 19:36 |
Krock |
mapgen is one way to differentiate a server |
| 19:37 |
cheapie |
I don't mean so much "ugh, this again", more the bugginess and the terrain being generally awful to build on. |
| 19:37 |
ireallyhateirc |
I don't like v7 cliffs |
| 19:37 |
ireallyhateirc |
some of them are small and cool, but some just look dumb |
| 19:38 |
cheapie |
v7 in particular has a tendency to produce shapes that are just impossible, as well as random nodes/clumps of nodes floating in midair. |
| 19:39 |
cheapie |
ireallyhateirc: GIMP opens the file fine for me (it was exported from GIMP - minetestmapper still has the same old bugs, so I have to export 16 "tiles" and put them together in GIMP), it just uses like 30GB of RAM to do it. |
| 19:41 |
celeron55_ |
Krock: the more you zoom out, the more you want large scale features. whether you want them for gameplay is the question. it wouldn't hurt to have the option for it - altough adding more large scale octaves will make the perlin noise generation a bit slower |
| 19:41 |
ireallyhateirc |
30GB ? I only have 24GB |
| 19:41 |
celeron55_ |
in any case, to some extent it's just a matter of setting suitable noise parameters |
| 19:43 |
ireallyhateirc |
we use valleys in Exile, because that produces more realistic terrain, but sadly lacks features like cliffs and faults |
| 19:43 |
cheapie |
I've looked at the other mapgens a few times, it seems that carpathian produces good results for building on for the most part, although I'd want to see if I can tone down the mountains a little if I was to actually do so... |
| 19:44 |
celeron55_ |
i think a larger horizontal scale mapgen with less unnatural generation could be a good fit to add to MT |
| 19:44 |
cheapie |
That is probably my main problem with v7 (outside of the bugs), the horizontal scale is just way too small. |
| 19:44 |
ireallyhateirc |
yeah, we just need some brave person to implement that |
| 19:44 |
celeron55_ |
i'm not really into designing mapgens for building, or anything in particular |
| 19:45 |
celeron55_ |
but designing for different scales makes sense to me |
| 19:47 |
cheapie |
Such a different scale would help a lot with building even if that's not the official reason for it - it would be nice to not have to have seemingly every large-ish building span a lake and five mountains, or whatever v7 decides to put there. |
| 19:49 |
ireallyhateirc |
you could write your own mapgen prototype in Lua thanks to the new mapgen env that makes stuff faster |
| 19:50 |
cheapie |
I did one "mapgen" a while back - I got frustrated at seemingly no options actually giving me a flat surface with zero decoration, so I did this: https://cheapiesystems.com/git/flatperiod/ |
| 19:51 |
cheapie |
Yes, the code is bad even for how short it is, but ssssh :P |
| 19:52 |
ireallyhateirc |
I'm doing my own city mapgen in Lua now, but it builds on flat mapgen for now. Maybe with hill support in the future |
| 19:53 |
cheapie |
I did try one of those later on, never got very far with it despite the plans I had. |
| 19:54 |
cheapie |
At least initially, I was planning to have it not just place roads on its own (just straight ones, in a grid - the goal was to have this just be for creative use), but automatically install traffic lights on them using roads and ltc4000e. I never did implement that part. |
| 19:56 |
celeron55_ |
i wish someone tried to make a mapgen for MT which uses transfer functions to process the noise result before use |
| 19:57 |
ireallyhateirc |
my progress so far https://p.mort.coffee/NHP.jpg |
| 19:58 |
cheapie |
The gloominess reminds me of nodecore :P |
| 19:58 |
celeron55_ |
to get plains, you can for example make a transfer function where some mid range of noise values map to a single value, and use that as a heightmap value, to generate flat plains at a certain height. and then you can modulate that plains height with another noise, or whatever |
| 19:59 |
ireallyhateirc |
I can also draw wobbly roads https://p.mort.coffee/UTJ.jpg |
| 19:59 |
celeron55_ |
overall i'd say the state of the art with perlin noise voxel/boxel mapgens has gone a lot further after MT's current mapgens were made |
| 19:59 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> I think it was paramat that made some pretty fantastic highway generators (found in aftermath) |
| 19:59 |
cheapie |
Those look "fun" to signalize... now watch, someone will be asking me to make a controller for 5-way intersections again... |
| 20:01 |
cheapie |
If I ever make that successor to the LTC-4000E that I've been considering for ages now but don't have the motivation to actually do, that would probably end up being a 16-phase or so controller. That would be able to do it. |
| 20:02 |
ireallyhateirc |
I need to make my road generation algorithm aware of collisions to place pedestrian passages and also make sure roads don't collide under weird angles/go too close together |
| 20:02 |
ireallyhateirc |
then place buildings and streets |
| 20:03 |
cheapie |
Even as it is it's a 12-phase controller, but it doesn't allow the roles of these phases or the sequence to be changed much. You can kind of make it do a 5-way but not well. |
| 20:05 |
ireallyhateirc |
yeah that thing is indeed short |
| 20:06 |
ireallyhateirc |
also using voxelarea there slows it down |
| 20:32 |
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