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IRC log for #minetest, 2024-02-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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02:04 hephaestus hello, guys. About my problem yesterday I just update from download button and then it solved, maybe versions problem at github on markdown2formspec
02:07 hephaestus but... now :D I'm a new error and I can't find the mod that showing the message on the debug, is there some way more effectivelly to check it? I'm able and disable the mods
02:07 hephaestus sorry, not I'm, I have a new error
03:02 Mantar there's no error message in the debug log?
03:05 Mantar if there's no error message, just some kind of unwanted behavior, then you can try disabling half your mod list to see if that fixes it, and so narrow the list of possible culprits to half the list, then do it again for 1/4th the list, and on down until you know the exact mod that causes the problem
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04:17 hephaestus well, I'll do that, thank you Mantar
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19:45 MinetestBot [git] grorp -> minetest/minetest: Add Lua API function to resolve node/collision/selection boxes (#13964) f2b9933 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f2b99332d95162d43c8ea38d8b5b59ac9b9e7cc2 (2024-02-06T19:45:16Z)
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20:51 Mantar irritants in the minetest api #37-or-so: pointed thing doesn't use "over/under" or "above/below," no, it has to use "above" and "under" ._.
20:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/37 -- [Feature request][LUA] Progress indication in inventory
20:51 Mantar shh, no, hush shadowbot
21:02 MTDiscord <warr1024> ShadowBot will always be #1 in my heart (glowstone issue)
21:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome
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23:09 alguien Is there a texture composer for minetest?
23:22 MTDiscord <wsor4035> minetest has texture modifiers, typically you would make your textures outside of minetest
23:27 alguien MTDiscord, yeah, I'm thinking a GUI that generates texture modifiers
23:28 MTDiscord <luatic> Your first thought before using texture modifiers should be whether you should use texture modifiers
23:28 alguien oops my previous message was meant for wsor4035
23:29 MTDiscord <wsor4035> texture modifiers for normal users are fine. signs lib for example is certainly on the abuse end of the spectrum to make up for the engine deficit
23:29 MTDiscord <wsor4035> to respond to alguien, im not aware of such a tool
23:29 MTDiscord <luatic> I wouldn't encourage using texture modifiers "too much".
23:29 MTDiscord <luatic> Use them when necessary or useful, but don't use them as a janky image editor when you could just use a real image editor instead.
23:30 MTDiscord <wsor4035> 👆 this
23:30 alguien luatic: I understand but I'm not making mods. I'm making due with what is available to me on other people's servers
23:31 MTDiscord <luatic> The server lets you enter texture modifiers?
23:31 MTDiscord <luatic> That seems very abusable tbh...
23:31 MTDiscord <wsor4035> technically with [png or [combine you can make anything without needing existing textures
23:31 MTDiscord <luatic> yep
23:32 alguien That's what I'm thinking. Well, sans the [png part, that's too much
23:33 alguien Think digistuff's touchscreen, and basic_robot's set_properties
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23:34 alguien I've been doing it by manually writing out the modifiers, and previewing it using a luacontroller and touchscreen, but it's not ideal
23:35 MTDiscord <luatic> if you want to show arbitrary pixel graphics, [png is more suitable than [combine because it is much denser (and also somewhat easier to produce: just base64-encode a png file)
23:37 alguien The smallest png file is 67 bytes (and that's unencoded). That's a pixel. I could do much more combining a few textures
23:37 MTDiscord <luatic> Yes, PNG has a bit of "starting overhead", but after that it's much denser for arbitrary pixels than [combine.
23:38 MTDiscord <luatic> if your graphics aren't "arbitrary" however and actually are "combinations" of existing textures, then [combine is indeed more suitable.
23:39 alguien That's what they are, yes
23:46 alguien Here's an underwhelming example, using a basic_robot: https://i.imgur.com/QuYKuMp.png
23:47 alguien (it's a map of the server with players on it - except i don't have the server map XD)
23:47 alguien Apparently I didn't screenshot my more impressive creations
23:48 MTDiscord <warr1024> The choice to use texture modifiers is a bit of a trade-off, but improvements to overrides.txt for texturepacks have mitigated some of the risk of overusing them.
23:49 alguien I reckon this is just one background texture, and a bunch of proportionally positioned (scaled) combines of the red dot texture
23:49 alguien Oh I can DOS the server with texture modifiers
23:50 MTDiscord <warr1024> Using texture modifiers for highly dynamic stuff like dots moving around a screen risks causing your clients to OOM
23:50 MTDiscord <warr1024> texture modifiers cause a texture to be actually drawn, inserted into an in-memory cache, and then it's never evicted
23:50 alguien MTDiscord, it's 1 FPS (where S is not a second, it's a server tick or whatever it's called in minetest)
23:50 MTDiscord <warr1024> For use-cases like that, you'd probably be safer using independent entities.
23:50 MTDiscord <warr1024> Oh, ouch
23:51 alguien texture modifiers cause a texture to be actually drawn, inserted into an in-memory cache, and then it's never evicted <- whaaat
23:51 MTDiscord <warr1024> yeah, welcome to minetest
23:51 alguien well i didn't know that man. ouch
23:51 MTDiscord <warr1024> it's a beautiful place, just mind the landmines
23:51 MTDiscord <warr1024> texture caching just happens to be a particularly bad one
23:52 alguien Why's there no reference counter?
23:52 MTDiscord <warr1024> I did something very similar to what your thing looks like in NodeCore for the skybox for "star navigation" initially and I was able to crash out a client within a couple of minutes.
23:52 alguien (iykwim)
23:52 MTDiscord <warr1024> there's an Issue filed for ref counting
23:52 MTDiscord <greenxenith> Fortunately you can write pngs to the server and dynamically send them without caching on the client, so you could write a lua texture mod system ;D
23:52 MTDiscord <warr1024> maybe if somebody cares enough about it AND knows enough C++, it will become a PER.
23:52 alguien Warr1024, oh they're cached client-side? That makes me feel better
23:52 alguien Yuck, C++
23:53 MTDiscord <warr1024> GX: wait, they're not cached on the client side?  How are they displayed?
23:53 MTDiscord <greenxenith> There is an ephimeral flag for dynamic media
23:53 MTDiscord <greenxenith> I dont know how it works
23:54 MTDiscord <warr1024> That just causes it not to be written to disk or saved across sessions, right?  I don't think there's any way in MT to display an image without loading it into an Image object, which are not refcounted and never disposed.
23:54 MTDiscord <greenxenith> All I know is the ephiermal flag specifically says "it will not be cached on the client"
23:54 MTDiscord <warr1024> I wouldn't bank on that "cached" including loading into memory.
23:54 alguien MTDiscord, so opt-in fill the server disk instead of client memory XD
23:55 alguien I remember displaying bubble.png crashed some android clients
23:55 MTDiscord <warr1024> Luckily for a lot of applications you can find a good balance between using multiple entities and using dynamic textures.  It's just the skybox in particular that you're kinda screwed on 😅
23:55 alguien Wonder what that was about
23:55 MTDiscord <warr1024> Android texture loading has in the past historically been pretty bizarre on certain devices.
23:55 alguien I made a bubble machine and people would stare at it for (timeout seconds)
23:56 alguien Absolutely mesmerising ;)
23:57 alguien I think the thing I showed you was my only animated (read: memory leaking) thing
23:58 alguien By the way, I hate that you nerfed client-side mods :(
23:59 Mantar SSCSM when?
23:59 alguien Never hopefully

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