| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:31 |
|
hephaestus joined #minetest |
| 00:34 |
hephaestus |
hello everyone! My server is almost there. I'm trying to get a free subdomain at minetest.land and I got that but I'm need some help to do tunnelbroker runs with because I'm using ipv6 |
| 00:35 |
hephaestus |
I was trying at hurricane eletric but it denny gmail and outlook and I dont know which email is allowed |
| 00:38 |
|
ShadowBot joined #minetest |
| 01:18 |
|
smk joined #minetest |
| 01:47 |
jonadab |
hephaestus: Warnock's Dilemma is when you say something on the internet, and you don't know how to interpret the silence that follows. |
| 01:47 |
jonadab |
Which can happen for a variety of reasons. |
| 01:48 |
jonadab |
I was saying that I wasn't sure you were going to get good answers to your question. |
| 01:48 |
jonadab |
But it looks like someone did come through for you after all. |
| 01:56 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> The Cunningham-Warnock Dilemma is when you post the wrong answer expecting people to correct you and you can't tell if the silence is because nobody actually knows the right answer, or they saw through your ruse. The Sturgeon-Hofstadter law is that 90% of everything is crap, even after you account for the Sturgeon-Hofstader law. |
| 01:58 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> And of course there's the Greenspun-Zawinski law that states that every email client and every buggy ad-hoc partial implementation of common lisp will contain an infinite nested fractal of each other. |
| 02:15 |
muurkha |
haha |
| 02:18 |
|
Leopold joined #minetest |
| 02:54 |
hephaestus |
jonadab, I understood warr1024 tell me about, thank you |
| 02:54 |
hephaestus |
well, i left v6 and came back to ipv4 |
| 02:54 |
hephaestus |
looks like more reasonable |
| 03:00 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Minetest on IPv6 is a bit tricky. I think I've seen setups that let you do both at the same time but it requires a firewall rule to redirect traffic from one to the other. |
| 03:00 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> Most of the public hosting I've seen is on v4 because that's still the most universal protocol and a lot of people can't do v6. |
| 03:00 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> There are public overlay networks like yggdrasil though that are used by people behind restrictive firewalls that only do v6 though. |
| 04:06 |
hephaestus |
warr1024 thank you, i understand, well im back to v4 and now it running. I think we need wait for some more time to use ipv6 |
| 04:16 |
Mantar |
>said the whole of the internet |
| 05:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #minetest |
| 05:00 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 06:06 |
|
Alnotz joined #minetest |
| 06:50 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest |
| 07:06 |
|
json joined #minetest |
| 07:10 |
|
json joined #minetest |
| 08:07 |
|
definitelya joined #minetest |
| 08:32 |
|
tes5555555555555 joined #minetest |
| 08:32 |
tes5555555555555 |
what's up |
| 08:37 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Currently, the ceiling |
| 08:37 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> What is above you on your end? |
| 08:37 |
tes5555555555555 |
hi guys |
| 08:38 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Hello tes |
| 08:38 |
tes5555555555555 |
I'm talking to you guys from my Android |
| 08:41 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Ah very nice. What app? |
| 08:42 |
cheapie |
An unstable one, I guess |
| 08:49 |
|
Mr_hawk joined #minetest |
| 08:49 |
Mr_hawk |
hi there |
| 09:01 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Hello Mr_hawk |
| 09:03 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> How often does the client ping the server to check if the server is still online? |
| 09:03 |
Mr_hawk |
I don't really know |
| 09:04 |
Mr_hawk |
what I do know is that I'm using IRC on my Android |
| 09:05 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 09:22 |
|
Warr1024 joined #minetest |
| 09:46 |
|
Warr1024 joined #minetest |
| 09:48 |
|
jaca122 joined #minetest |
| 10:02 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 11:35 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 11:36 |
|
jaca122 joined #minetest |
| 11:48 |
sfan5 |
<warr1024> Minetest on IPv6 is a bit tricky. I think I've seen setups that let you do both at the same time but it requires a firewall rule to redirect traffic from one to the other. |
| 11:48 |
sfan5 |
I wish I knew what other people are doing because such a thing is definitely not required. |
| 11:48 |
|
Lunatrius joined #minetest |
| 11:51 |
|
Lunatrius joined #minetest |
| 12:25 |
|
Leopold joined #minetest |
| 12:33 |
|
s20_ joined #minetest |
| 12:37 |
|
Leopold_ joined #minetest |
| 12:42 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #minetest |
| 12:47 |
|
appguru joined #minetest |
| 12:53 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 13:36 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> When can we start being a butthole to the distros that ship a version of minetest that's like 15 years old at this point? https://youtu.be/DrPplxVL6Zo?feature=shared |
| 13:36 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 13:46 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I can actually make minetest-rust do this warning pretty easily using a release date or duration |
| 13:49 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 13:55 |
|
jaca122 joined #minetest |
| 15:04 |
|
fling joined #minetest |
| 15:30 |
|
Desour joined #minetest |
| 16:13 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 16:18 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> sfan5: minetest does not seem to have an option to bind to both a v4 and a v6 socket at the same time. I had assumed that it was only OpenBSD that enforced a strict separation between them, but the only cases I've seen where people are running dual address families have been on Linux. |
| 16:19 |
MTDiscord |
<warr1024> I never run v6 myself. I think I heard of one case where someone was trying to host on v4 for LAN and v6 for yggdrasil. |
| 16:21 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 16:24 |
|
fluxionary joined #minetest |
| 16:25 |
sfan5 |
minetest indeed doesn't support binding multiple sockets |
| 16:26 |
sfan5 |
but if you let it bind to all interfaces (default) it will accept both v4 and v6 connections unless the OS does not support this |
| 16:26 |
sfan5 |
OpenBSD is the only one I'm aware of that has this limitation |
| 16:37 |
|
Talkless joined #minetest |
| 17:37 |
|
s20 joined #minetest |
| 17:44 |
|
imi joined #minetest |
| 18:27 |
MinetestBot |
[git] parona-source -> minetest/minetest: Add missing header for gcc-14 c9ab61a https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c9ab61aa8cd0ca50bc8c4d90f257bb5ed3b0bb00 (2023-12-31T18:26:33Z) |
| 19:34 |
|
Trifton joined #minetest |
| 19:56 |
|
s20_ joined #minetest |
| 20:12 |
|
cryne joined #minetest |
| 20:14 |
|
cryne joined #minetest |
| 20:15 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Is minetest using the brute force of SQLite3 as a fancy key-value storage thing? |
| 20:16 |
celeron55 |
sql can act as a fairly efficient key value store, it's nothing new or uncommon |
| 20:16 |
celeron55 |
or, i mean, an sql database can |
| 20:17 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> No I was asking because https://github.com/rust-unofficial/awesome-rust#database-1 I got some choices here |
| 20:17 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> The illusion of choice, many doors, but which one goes outside into the fresh air? |
| 20:17 |
Krock |
leveldb support exists too, which means that there's no special SQL features used so far |
| 20:18 |
Krock |
key/value lookup matters most right now |
| 20:18 |
Desour |
you'll probably want to support minetest maps with sqlite3 backend in your minetest-rust thing. so I'd go with that first |
| 20:18 |
celeron55 |
efficient key-value lookup with efficient blob storage is the thing to look for, yes. it also has to be super reliable |
| 20:19 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Well there's pickle, besides having a funny name it's seemingly reached stability https://github.com/seladb/pickledb-rs |
| 20:19 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Okay, so, key/value, blob storage, fast, reliable |
| 20:19 |
celeron55 |
if reliability is at all worse than sqlite3's, you're putting user's stored data at risk, usually the only copy of the data |
| 20:20 |
|
germ joined #minetest |
| 20:20 |
ROllerozxa |
just use sqlite because you'll need to support that for compatibility anyways |
| 20:21 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Oh there's literally sqlite3 bindings at the bottom, hooray! |
| 20:21 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> use sqlite |
| 20:23 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> And then we can talk into it with https://github.com/SeaQL/sea-query |
| 20:24 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Oh right I forgot to actually post the rust sqlite3 thing https://github.com/rusqlite/rusqlite |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
by this point rust definitely will have a nice sql layer that nicely supports sqlite3. just keep in mind people will want to switch backends for big servers so you'll have to abstract the backend |
| 20:25 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> We support MySQL, Postgres and SQLite, does this cover all the major DBs that a big server would want? |
| 20:26 |
celeron55 |
(and leveldb, which is currently supported, isn't an sql database, so you can't just swap sql databases) |
| 20:26 |
celeron55 |
(and the schema for different sql backends isn't the same i think) |
| 20:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sqlite sqlite sqlite |
| 20:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> if you get mysql / postgres for free, sure, why not |
| 20:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> but for a MVP you definitely want sqlite |
| 20:27 |
Desour |
we don't want to cover all dbs that anyone might want, because we'd need to maintain those backends. see the mariadb case for example |
| 20:27 |
celeron55 |
anyway yes, there's a reason for why the first database MT supported was sqlite. it's good |
| 20:28 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Okay, how about I just make a basic implementation with rustqlite and then we can plop in this https://github.com/skade/leveldb ?stable? library or something, probably best to pick one and just make it uber fast |
| 20:28 |
celeron55 |
sqlite is the baseline. everything is compared to sqlite and reasoned about in relation to sqlite |
| 20:28 |
ROllerozxa |
leveldb is not stable, so no binding for leveldb could possibly be stable |
| 20:28 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I think using a SQL query builder, if it's a well-done one, would not be a bad idea |
| 20:29 |
celeron55 |
minetest-rust doesn't necessarily need to support leveldb because minetest can migrate between its backends and end up with, well, an sqlite database to feed into your thing which should support the sqlite database |
| 20:29 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Yes that query builder looks so nice I think I want to give them a hug |
| 20:29 |
celeron55 |
then if it supports something else it can then migrate again to whatever it supports, if needed |
| 20:29 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> jordan: I'd still take a look at alternative query builders, though |
| 20:29 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> make sure it's the number 1 for rust |
| 20:34 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Okay well, since other people would also have to maintain this: https://diesel.rs/ https://crates.io/crates/diesel 8,241,746 downloads https://github.com/SeaQL/sea-query/ https://crates.io/crates/sea-query 2,243,899 downloads |
| 20:34 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> hmm do you want the ORM part of it? |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
the downloads numbers aren't necessarily useful, it would be better to try to see if any big projects are depending on the libraries |
| 20:35 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I dunno if I can disable that but I can focus it into sqlite via toml [dependencies] diesel = { version = "<version>", features = ["<postgres|mysql|sqlite>"] } |
| 20:35 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> (for diesel) |
| 20:37 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> btw folks, I have a compiling gltf parser based on jsoncpp (there will still be a few rough / incomplete thingies, but it's nice progress) :hypereyes: |
| 20:37 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> sea-query is more focused on just building the query and can disable pretty much everything unrelated to rustqlite https://github.com/SeaQL/sea-query/#install |
| 20:38 |
celeron55 |
looks like sea-query and diesel are pretty similar because sea-query doesn't have any user facing projects as dependents, but instead sea-orm depends on sea-query and sea-orm is the one with those kinds of dependents |
| 20:39 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> WHOA https://github.com/loco-rs/loco depends on sea-query |
| 20:39 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> That's the ruby on rails for rust |
| 20:50 |
|
bwarden joined #minetest |
| 20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Hey you can probably just plop contentdb into that hmm |
| 20:52 |
|
Miner_48er joined #minetest |
| 20:53 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Yeah quickwit is using sea-query as well, I think we have our answer here |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> This one looks cool as heck https://github.com/risingwavelabs/risingwave |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Which version of sqlite3 does minetest utilize as the baseline? |
| 21:00 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Does it happen to be "SQLite 3.7.4 or later"? |
| 21:01 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Oh right, semantic version can be 3.10.4 > 3.7.4 duh |
| 21:04 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I'm seeing just "3+" on the linux instructions page, if minetest C++ uses these features, perhaps it should specify > https://www.sqlite.org/releaselog/3_7_4.html this version |
| 21:04 |
celeron55 |
MT doesn't bundle sqlite3 and sqlite3's api hasn't changed in a looong time so it kind of can be almost anything depending on the distro |
| 21:04 |
celeron55 |
but, like, check what debian stable incldues |
| 21:04 |
celeron55 |
includes* |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I will now, but I'm scared |
| 21:05 |
celeron55 |
or centos |
| 21:05 |
celeron55 |
3.40, i think |
| 21:05 |
celeron55 |
that's way more recent than any versions you mentioned |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> debian buster LTS: 3.27.2-3 centos 8: 20071018-26 (whatever that means) alma: 3.26.0-18 rocky 8: 3.26.0-18 |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Looks like it's in the clear |
| 21:15 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Which means somehow debian is more up to date than redhat distros |
| 21:16 |
celeron55 |
redhat's customers pay money for not having to update their stuff |
| 21:17 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> If that's the case, I better start a linux distro company and just forget about it |
| 21:17 |
celeron55 |
"we pay you, and you tell us the software is still fine" |
| 22:05 |
|
germ joined #minetest |
| 22:23 |
|
stormchaser3000 joined #minetest |
| 22:41 |
|
TLuna joined #minetest |
| 22:41 |
|
TLuna_ joined #minetest |
| 22:44 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I just got ctrlc (the package) to allow us to elegantly terminate all required processes, like shutting down the network server handlers and printing out the neat output to terminal like the game should do when it closes |
| 23:32 |
|
panwolfram joined #minetest |
| 23:44 |
|
Boingo joined #minetest |
| 23:51 |
|
Bombo joined #minetest |
| 23:51 |
|
Bombo joined #minetest |
| 23:53 |
|
sparky4 joined #minetest |
