Time Nick Message 00:34 hephaestus hello everyone! My server is almost there. I'm trying to get a free subdomain at minetest.land and I got that but I'm need some help to do tunnelbroker runs with because I'm using ipv6 00:35 hephaestus I was trying at hurricane eletric but it denny gmail and outlook and I dont know which email is allowed 01:47 jonadab hephaestus: Warnock's Dilemma is when you say something on the internet, and you don't know how to interpret the silence that follows. 01:47 jonadab Which can happen for a variety of reasons. 01:48 jonadab I was saying that I wasn't sure you were going to get good answers to your question. 01:48 jonadab But it looks like someone did come through for you after all. 01:56 MTDiscord The Cunningham-Warnock Dilemma is when you post the wrong answer expecting people to correct you and you can't tell if the silence is because nobody actually knows the right answer, or they saw through your ruse. The Sturgeon-Hofstadter law is that 90% of everything is crap, even after you account for the Sturgeon-Hofstader law. 01:58 MTDiscord And of course there's the Greenspun-Zawinski law that states that every email client and every buggy ad-hoc partial implementation of common lisp will contain an infinite nested fractal of each other. 02:15 muurkha haha 02:54 hephaestus jonadab, I understood warr1024 tell me about, thank you 02:54 hephaestus well, i left v6 and came back to ipv4 02:54 hephaestus looks like more reasonable 03:00 MTDiscord Minetest on IPv6 is a bit tricky. I think I've seen setups that let you do both at the same time but it requires a firewall rule to redirect traffic from one to the other. 03:00 MTDiscord Most of the public hosting I've seen is on v4 because that's still the most universal protocol and a lot of people can't do v6. 03:00 MTDiscord There are public overlay networks like yggdrasil though that are used by people behind restrictive firewalls that only do v6 though. 04:06 hephaestus warr1024 thank you, i understand, well im back to v4 and now it running. I think we need wait for some more time to use ipv6 04:16 Mantar >said the whole of the internet 08:32 tes5555555555555 what's up 08:37 MTDiscord Currently, the ceiling 08:37 MTDiscord What is above you on your end? 08:37 tes5555555555555 hi guys 08:38 MTDiscord Hello tes 08:38 tes5555555555555 I'm talking to you guys from my Android 08:41 MTDiscord Ah very nice. What app? 08:42 cheapie An unstable one, I guess 08:49 Mr_hawk hi there 09:01 MTDiscord Hello Mr_hawk 09:03 MTDiscord How often does the client ping the server to check if the server is still online? 09:03 Mr_hawk I don't really know 09:04 Mr_hawk what I do know is that I'm using IRC on my Android 11:48 sfan5 Minetest on IPv6 is a bit tricky. I think I've seen setups that let you do both at the same time but it requires a firewall rule to redirect traffic from one to the other. 11:48 sfan5 I wish I knew what other people are doing because such a thing is definitely not required. 13:36 MTDiscord When can we start being a butthole to the distros that ship a version of minetest that's like 15 years old at this point? https://youtu.be/DrPplxVL6Zo?feature=shared 13:46 MTDiscord I can actually make minetest-rust do this warning pretty easily using a release date or duration 16:18 MTDiscord sfan5: minetest does not seem to have an option to bind to both a v4 and a v6 socket at the same time. I had assumed that it was only OpenBSD that enforced a strict separation between them, but the only cases I've seen where people are running dual address families have been on Linux. 16:19 MTDiscord I never run v6 myself. I think I heard of one case where someone was trying to host on v4 for LAN and v6 for yggdrasil. 16:25 sfan5 minetest indeed doesn't support binding multiple sockets 16:26 sfan5 but if you let it bind to all interfaces (default) it will accept both v4 and v6 connections unless the OS does not support this 16:26 sfan5 OpenBSD is the only one I'm aware of that has this limitation 18:27 MinetestBot 02[git] 04parona-source -> 03minetest/minetest: Add missing header for gcc-14 13c9ab61a https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c9ab61aa8cd0ca50bc8c4d90f257bb5ed3b0bb00 (152023-12-31T18:26:33Z) 20:15 MTDiscord Is minetest using the brute force of SQLite3 as a fancy key-value storage thing? 20:16 celeron55 sql can act as a fairly efficient key value store, it's nothing new or uncommon 20:16 celeron55 or, i mean, an sql database can 20:17 MTDiscord No I was asking because https://github.com/rust-unofficial/awesome-rust#database-1 I got some choices here 20:17 MTDiscord The illusion of choice, many doors, but which one goes outside into the fresh air? 20:17 Krock leveldb support exists too, which means that there's no special SQL features used so far 20:18 Krock key/value lookup matters most right now 20:18 Desour you'll probably want to support minetest maps with sqlite3 backend in your minetest-rust thing. so I'd go with that first 20:18 celeron55 efficient key-value lookup with efficient blob storage is the thing to look for, yes. it also has to be super reliable 20:19 MTDiscord Well there's pickle, besides having a funny name it's seemingly reached stability https://github.com/seladb/pickledb-rs 20:19 MTDiscord Okay, so, key/value, blob storage, fast, reliable 20:19 celeron55 if reliability is at all worse than sqlite3's, you're putting user's stored data at risk, usually the only copy of the data 20:20 ROllerozxa just use sqlite because you'll need to support that for compatibility anyways 20:21 MTDiscord Oh there's literally sqlite3 bindings at the bottom, hooray! 20:21 MTDiscord use sqlite 20:23 MTDiscord And then we can talk into it with https://github.com/SeaQL/sea-query 20:24 MTDiscord Oh right I forgot to actually post the rust sqlite3 thing https://github.com/rusqlite/rusqlite 20:24 celeron55 by this point rust definitely will have a nice sql layer that nicely supports sqlite3. just keep in mind people will want to switch backends for big servers so you'll have to abstract the backend 20:25 MTDiscord We support MySQL, Postgres and SQLite, does this cover all the major DBs that a big server would want? 20:26 celeron55 (and leveldb, which is currently supported, isn't an sql database, so you can't just swap sql databases) 20:26 celeron55 (and the schema for different sql backends isn't the same i think) 20:26 MTDiscord sqlite sqlite sqlite 20:26 MTDiscord if you get mysql / postgres for free, sure, why not 20:26 MTDiscord but for a MVP you definitely want sqlite 20:27 Desour we don't want to cover all dbs that anyone might want, because we'd need to maintain those backends. see the mariadb case for example 20:27 celeron55 anyway yes, there's a reason for why the first database MT supported was sqlite. it's good 20:28 MTDiscord Okay, how about I just make a basic implementation with rustqlite and then we can plop in this https://github.com/skade/leveldb ?stable? library or something, probably best to pick one and just make it uber fast 20:28 celeron55 sqlite is the baseline. everything is compared to sqlite and reasoned about in relation to sqlite 20:28 ROllerozxa leveldb is not stable, so no binding for leveldb could possibly be stable 20:28 MTDiscord I think using a SQL query builder, if it's a well-done one, would not be a bad idea 20:29 celeron55 minetest-rust doesn't necessarily need to support leveldb because minetest can migrate between its backends and end up with, well, an sqlite database to feed into your thing which should support the sqlite database 20:29 MTDiscord Yes that query builder looks so nice I think I want to give them a hug 20:29 celeron55 then if it supports something else it can then migrate again to whatever it supports, if needed 20:29 MTDiscord jordan: I'd still take a look at alternative query builders, though 20:29 MTDiscord make sure it's the number 1 for rust 20:34 MTDiscord Okay well, since other people would also have to maintain this: https://diesel.rs/ https://crates.io/crates/diesel 8,241,746 downloads https://github.com/SeaQL/sea-query/ https://crates.io/crates/sea-query 2,243,899 downloads 20:34 MTDiscord hmm do you want the ORM part of it? 20:35 celeron55 the downloads numbers aren't necessarily useful, it would be better to try to see if any big projects are depending on the libraries 20:35 MTDiscord I dunno if I can disable that but I can focus it into sqlite via toml [dependencies] diesel = { version = "", features = [""] } 20:35 MTDiscord (for diesel) 20:37 MTDiscord btw folks, I have a compiling gltf parser based on jsoncpp (there will still be a few rough / incomplete thingies, but it's nice progress) :hypereyes: 20:37 MTDiscord sea-query is more focused on just building the query and can disable pretty much everything unrelated to rustqlite https://github.com/SeaQL/sea-query/#install 20:38 celeron55 looks like sea-query and diesel are pretty similar because sea-query doesn't have any user facing projects as dependents, but instead sea-orm depends on sea-query and sea-orm is the one with those kinds of dependents 20:39 MTDiscord WHOA https://github.com/loco-rs/loco depends on sea-query 20:39 MTDiscord That's the ruby on rails for rust 20:52 MTDiscord Hey you can probably just plop contentdb into that hmm 20:53 MTDiscord Yeah quickwit is using sea-query as well, I think we have our answer here 20:54 MTDiscord This one looks cool as heck https://github.com/risingwavelabs/risingwave 21:00 MTDiscord Which version of sqlite3 does minetest utilize as the baseline? 21:00 MTDiscord Does it happen to be "SQLite 3.7.4 or later"? 21:01 MTDiscord Oh right, semantic version can be 3.10.4 > 3.7.4 duh 21:04 MTDiscord I'm seeing just "3+" on the linux instructions page, if minetest C++ uses these features, perhaps it should specify > https://www.sqlite.org/releaselog/3_7_4.html this version 21:04 celeron55 MT doesn't bundle sqlite3 and sqlite3's api hasn't changed in a looong time so it kind of can be almost anything depending on the distro 21:04 celeron55 but, like, check what debian stable incldues 21:04 celeron55 includes* 21:05 MTDiscord I will now, but I'm scared 21:05 celeron55 or centos 21:05 celeron55 3.40, i think 21:05 celeron55 that's way more recent than any versions you mentioned 21:14 MTDiscord debian buster LTS: 3.27.2-3 centos 8: 20071018-26 (whatever that means) alma: 3.26.0-18 rocky 8: 3.26.0-18 21:14 MTDiscord Looks like it's in the clear 21:15 MTDiscord Which means somehow debian is more up to date than redhat distros 21:16 celeron55 redhat's customers pay money for not having to update their stuff 21:17 MTDiscord If that's the case, I better start a linux distro company and just forget about it 21:17 celeron55 "we pay you, and you tell us the software is still fine" 22:44 MTDiscord I just got ctrlc (the package) to allow us to elegantly terminate all required processes, like shutting down the network server handlers and printing out the neat output to terminal like the game should do when it closes