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lissobone |
hare_hare_yukai3: top uno momentos bruh |
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lissobone |
numero uno |
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MTDiscord |
<maintainer_> Huh |
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| 07:54 |
kyle56 |
i have questoin. so when a forum thread is hidden by a moderator, can they still see it and any attachments present on said thread? |
| 07:58 |
kyle56 |
because there is a thread was hidden a few months ago. and ever since it was, i wanted to download the attachment that i was too dumb to grab beforehand even tho i kinda figured that due to its controversial nature, it would be deleted. |
| 07:59 |
erle |
kyle56 what's the attachment? |
| 07:59 |
erle |
if it's the phalluz mod, i have it |
| 07:59 |
erle |
i know nothing else controversial |
| 08:00 |
erle |
like controversial enough to hide |
| 08:00 |
erle |
(maybe i don't know it because it was hidden) |
| 08:00 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> lol, phalluz... |
| 08:01 |
kyle56 |
its probably wishful thinking but i am hopeing that a mod would be nice enough to send me the file if its still on the server. because otherwise its pretty much lost media. and i want to preserve it. i know that it may not be suitable for the forum, but i would like to maybe give it a new home. |
| 08:01 |
kyle56 |
the thread was saved in archive.org a while ago. so this is the thread i mean. but the attachment was never saved. https://web.archive.org/web/20190609175714/https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14906 |
| 08:02 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> @not luatic might be able to provide you with it when he wakes up |
| 08:03 |
kyle56 |
well i could give him my email. tho i dont wanna say it here in this chat. |
| 08:04 |
erle |
ROllerozxa the phalluz mode is transphobic because it excludes players named samantha yes i am willing to die on this hill, it needs an update |
| 08:05 |
kyle56 |
lol do i even wanna know what that is? the name makes it sound like it has something to do with phallic imagery LMAO |
| 08:06 |
erle |
i will not tell you what it does |
| 08:06 |
erle |
it is a secret |
| 08:06 |
kyle56 |
i would ask for not luatic's email but since my personal email is brand new, i probably can't send messages to anyone without it going to spam. |
| 08:06 |
erle |
don't mention it |
| 08:07 |
kyle56 |
fair enough lol |
| 08:07 |
celeron55 |
kyle56: i can download it and send it to you |
| 08:08 |
kyle56 |
celeron55: that would be great thanks! but how do you suggest i receive it? i guess i could put a temporary email alias in this chat. that way i can destroy it if it gets spammed |
| 08:09 |
erle |
kyle56 do you know about QUERY |
| 08:09 |
kyle56 |
oop. i just got your DM. thank you so much! |
| 08:09 |
erle |
kyle56 you can send other people messages on IRC privately |
| 08:09 |
celeron55 |
it's a very small mod though, it barely does or contains anything at all |
| 08:10 |
celeron55 |
not worth much |
| 08:10 |
kyle56 |
i kinda figured which was why i never downloaded it at first. i guess the fact that the thread was hidden made me want it more though. made me curious. |
| 08:11 |
celeron55 |
it's a couple of non-interactive nodes and one recipe |
| 08:12 |
kyle56 |
well i guess its good to know i was not missing out on much. and that my attempt at a similar mod is much more complete. |
| 08:15 |
erle |
wait so this mod does what |
| 08:15 |
erle |
devour other players? |
| 08:16 |
erle |
that does not sound remotely NSFW |
| 08:16 |
erle |
like is there a lot of blood or what |
| 08:16 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> (do you know what vore is erle) |
| 08:16 |
erle |
ROllerozxa are you saying devouring other players is lewd |
| 08:16 |
kyle56 |
to some people it is. |
| 08:16 |
erle |
ROllerozxa you know you can devour CAKE in some minetest games |
| 08:16 |
erle |
it doesn't make you a cakefucker |
| 08:17 |
kyle56 |
seems that mod just adds a stomach block and a acid block |
| 08:17 |
erle |
celeron55 any idea why this was hidden? |
| 08:17 |
erle |
like was it the surrounding text? |
| 08:18 |
kyle56 |
thats a good question. all i know is that it was hidden after i necroposted to it showing surprise that i was not the first to use that concept for a mod. |
| 08:19 |
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| 08:21 |
kyle56 |
i mean i suppose even if its subject is not inherently sexual, fetishising it may be unwelcome on the forum. which is fine. i have no intention of sharing my mod on the forum or contentdb since i know it would be against the rules. |
| 08:23 |
kyle56 |
while it seems that devour thing was never finished, i have put a lot more work into my mod. i wont go into details since its probably not appropriate here. but my mod does allow devouring other players. |
| 08:24 |
celeron55 |
the topic was moved to trash 5 months ago. i don't know why. if you double-insist i can ask about it from the moderator in question |
| 08:25 |
celeron55 |
probably due to a combination of a necropost and a useless mod |
| 08:27 |
kyle56 |
oh yeah i never thought about that. man i really wish more software systems had a delete reason system or something. where it would say like "this ____ was hidden for violating this rule: useless mod and necroposting" or something. i like when there is transparency. dunno if phpBB has that but it would be nice. |
| 08:28 |
celeron55 |
phpbb's features haven't been chosen to support actual real world usage. it's just a random bunch of features the developers came up with in a pitch black room separated from the real world |
| 08:29 |
celeron55 |
yes, you can supply a reason if you delete a mod |
| 08:29 |
celeron55 |
but we generally don't delete mods. we move them to the trash pile |
| 08:29 |
celeron55 |
and for moving a topic, you can't supply a reason |
| 08:30 |
celeron55 |
eh |
| 08:30 |
celeron55 |
s/mod/topic/ |
| 08:31 |
celeron55 |
(i should be working so apparently i can't allocate enough brain capacity to this discussion to succesfully come up with words) |
| 08:36 |
kyle56 |
well i think i am going to be heading off now. again thx for recovering the file, even if it wasn't really anything worthwhile. if erle does want you to ask the moderator why it was deleted, i'd be interested in knowing too but its not that important to me. maybe i will check the irc logs to see if a reason was ever posted. anyway bye. |
| 08:36 |
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| 08:40 |
erle |
tbh if i saw a mod where a user was eating another user i would probably not think it is a fetish thing |
| 08:40 |
erle |
but more like AMOGUS |
| 08:40 |
erle |
is there an amogus mod btw |
| 08:53 |
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| 10:17 |
erle |
MisterE123 do i need to do more than open an issue? like make a PR or so https://github.com/minetest/blog/issues/129 |
| 10:19 |
lissobone |
i don't feel my limbs |
| 10:20 |
erle |
lissobone sudden numbness may be a sign of a stroke. TELL THE PERSON NEAREST TO YOU IMMEDIATELY. show them this link: https://www.cdc.gov/stroke/signs_symptoms.htm |
| 10:21 |
lissobone |
nah i slept wrongly |
| 10:21 |
lissobone |
my heat is healthy |
| 10:21 |
lissobone |
heart |
| 10:21 |
lissobone |
just woke up guys |
| 10:21 |
lissobone |
hi |
| 10:22 |
erle |
oh that is an explanation |
| 10:22 |
erle |
i hope it clears up then |
| 10:22 |
erle |
still, if you have trouble walking or speaking or become confused, call whatever is the emergency number immediately |
| 10:22 |
erle |
though i imagine having trouble speaking would make it a bit weird |
| 10:23 |
lissobone |
dw bro i just like to write absolutely random stuff in random chats at arbitrary moments that is nevertheless related to me |
| 10:23 |
lissobone |
though i do have trouble speaking nowadays |
| 10:23 |
erle |
don't bro me |
| 10:23 |
erle |
but i don't worry |
| 10:23 |
lissobone |
my brain is worn out by korean |
| 10:23 |
lissobone |
y not bro u |
| 10:23 |
lissobone |
every human on earth is bro |
| 10:24 |
erle |
lol |
| 10:24 |
ROllerozxa |
if I get confused while reading code, do I still need to dial 112 |
| 10:25 |
lissobone |
Fun hacker discovery: our brains kind of work like giant list processors. |
| 10:26 |
lissobone |
I found out that people remember things sequentially and associatively: when we try to remember something, we look for links that might lead to that cons cell. There might not be a single link, or we might have a direct one to that very cell and its CAR. |
| 10:26 |
lissobone |
In the last case, we remember it immediately. |
| 10:28 |
lissobone |
alright, it's 19:30, i slept for like 4 hours and a little more and saw absolute banger dreams, time to work |
| 10:29 |
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| 10:29 |
lissobone |
hi |
| 10:31 |
lissobone |
i feel slightly drunk on sleeping maybe that's the reason i'm sh***ing in this channel (i'm very sorry if that's actually the case maybe i should cut down on lisp consumption) |
| 10:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> lissobone: no, not quite; yes, our brains work very good associatively (with links), but that doesn't mandate linked lists; graph or tree data structures (which arguably can be represented using lists too) come to us very naturally |
| 10:34 |
lissobone |
there ain't no trees or grahps in lisp, buddy |
| 10:34 |
lissobone |
only lists, for LISP stands for LISt Processor |
| 10:35 |
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| 10:35 |
lissobone |
And thinking in terms of lisp lists, having faith in my brainpower, actually helps remember things faster and think better. |
| 10:35 |
lissobone |
hi |
| 10:35 |
lissobone |
guyz did u know i'm gonna hack my dad |
| 10:37 |
ROllerozxa |
words |
| 10:37 |
lissobone |
I don't think I should write here. Bye. |
| 10:37 |
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| 12:08 |
BuckarooBanzai |
> BuckarooBanzai where's your minetest python lib |
| 12:08 |
BuckarooBanzai |
erle: i don't do python :) i have one in go but it's not really useful except for load-testing a server: https://github.com/minetest-go/minetest_client |
| 12:08 |
BuckarooBanzai |
Fleckenstein/Lizzy made one that has more features, just fyi: https://github.com/dragonfireclient/hydra-dragonfire |
| 12:08 |
erle |
IIRC the python thing was funny for getting a half-initialized player |
| 12:09 |
erle |
that appeared as a flat avatar in mcl2 |
| 12:13 |
BuckarooBanzai |
uh, are you sure? i can't think how that would work: if the player is visible ingame then all the relevant callbacks should have run already 😕 |
| 12:16 |
erle |
i'm p sure minetest reordered some login logic some way back because of that |
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| 13:39 |
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| 14:09 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> mod for enable creative mode for server admin exists? |
| 14:10 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> also, how I can /give block with predefined param2? |
| 14:23 |
sfan5 |
while in item form a node does not have a defined param2 |
| 14:32 |
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| 14:38 |
calcul0n_ |
the best you can do is use the replacer tool i guess |
| 14:39 |
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| 14:41 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> yes, this workaround best |
| 14:44 |
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| 15:13 |
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| 15:40 |
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| 15:47 |
erle |
is there a way to see earlier versions of comments, or at least which user has edited them? the top post here used to say something else: https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2-Plus/issues/21 |
| 15:48 |
erle |
this is part of what is missing |
| 15:48 |
erle |
> To everyone except @ancientmarinerdev -- It's been a pleasure to get to know you, and to work with you. |
| 15:48 |
erle |
ancientmariner any idea what that is about? |
| 15:48 |
rubenwardy |
yes, click edited |
| 15:49 |
erle |
ah thanks |
| 15:49 |
erle |
i just want to know because i vaguely remember accusations of users on mesehub editing *other* people's comments and i am not sure if that is even possible. |
| 15:52 |
erle |
so i guess kneekoo deleted the inflammatory 2 paragraphs in there (given the vitriol i get why) |
| 15:52 |
erle |
then i think the rumors of people editing other people's comments *without making it obvious they did* (like adding “admin comment: this comment was redacted for violating the rules”) may be true |
| 15:54 |
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| 15:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> "<erle> > To everyone except @ancientmarinerdev -- It's been a pleasure to get to know you, and to work with you." - You know very little about me, if you have a negative opinion of me, I'd have to insist on you questioning where you get your information from. |
| 15:55 |
erle |
ancientmariner i do not have a negative opinion based on that comment |
| 15:55 |
erle |
but i am pretty sure the person posting has |
| 15:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> secondly, stop digging up stuff from months ago that has nothing to do with you. i understand you like to focus on negatives, but i don't care much for it |
| 15:55 |
erle |
it just popped up in my inbox |
| 15:55 |
erle |
i think because the issue got closed? |
| 15:56 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> also agree, let old drama stay dead |
| 15:56 |
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| 15:56 |
erle |
look i cared more about the gitea edited view than your drama |
| 15:56 |
erle |
seriously |
| 15:56 |
erle |
i definitely did not *dig it up* |
| 15:56 |
erle |
it probably landed in your inbox too |
| 15:56 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> gitea is pretty poor, and the access control is dreadful |
| 15:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i'm aware of what was in that post, and i think anyone involved in it wants it in the past |
| 15:57 |
erle |
the only person i'll be wary of based on this thing is kneekoo because he did not give an indication that he deleted the unfriendly parts of the comment (if i understand it correctly) |
| 15:58 |
erle |
but let's say i don't like kneekoo anyway because opposed to literally *everyone* else i had a disagreement with, kneekoo would never code something (at least when i had disagreements), whereas every single other person would at least make a proof of concept. |
| 15:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I think you should give prominent indication of moderator edits if the platform doesn't already. |
| 15:58 |
erle |
it does not matter |
| 15:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i talk extensively to kneekoo and we run decisions by each other, i have no doubts over his decision making. on the contrary, i have the utmost respect for the way he conducts himself |
| 15:58 |
erle |
luatic i think that too! |
| 15:59 |
erle |
ancientmariner yeah but like … can kneekoo actually code? because at some point i suggested that maybe he just can't write lua at all and that's the reason (i.e. kneekoo is not being an asshole, just does not know any better) |
| 15:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: are you being codeist ;) |
| 15:59 |
erle |
luatic a bit yes |
| 15:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i don't really take much value in what your opinion of people is, and kneekoo has done more for mcl2 that most people in these last 7 months. he's probably a more stoic and reasonable person myself, and your mud slinging says more about your character than theirs |
| 16:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ancientmariner: btw, do you know any good tool to profile allocations in Lua? |
| 16:01 |
erle |
i take this as: 1. you like kneekoo 2. you don't like me for some reason 3. you don't want to tell me if kneekoo can write lua, so i'll keep the implications to myself |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:01 |
erle |
ancientmariner i am sorry for giving the impression i endorse that comment. i just found it weird because obviously you value not alienating community members MUCH more than i do |
| 16:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i respect people based on their conduct, i dislike you for the fact you're negative and you always jump to attacks on people's character for their decisions. technically, you're excellent, it's just a shame you do not focus on how you interact with people |
| 16:02 |
erle |
oh, so it's nothing new then |
| 16:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> but hey, if you choose to focus and engage positives, it's all water under the bridge. i'd like to like you |
| 16:03 |
erle |
ancientmariner want to have a chance to be negative about something? i wrote a unicode text rendering library and look for vile criticism |
| 16:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> but i don't think you really care about that, and i think it's best your just focus on your stuff, and i'll focus on mine |
| 16:03 |
erle |
ancientmariner it is intended to enable you to have unicode on signs, yes in mcl2 |
| 16:04 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i really liked the look for the signs lettering stuff you did, and it'd probably help the project at some point in time |
| 16:04 |
erle |
ancientmariner i'd appreciate your comments on the shape of the API with respect to mcl2 experience https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/unicode_text |
| 16:05 |
erle |
be as negative as you want, the worst response you can get from me is probably “i have researched this a lot for months and i am pretty sure your concern is baseless for $OBSCURE_REASON” |
| 16:05 |
erle |
but i would like to actually make API consumers happy, so |
| 16:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> also mineclone2 can merge lib-signs from minetest mod? Just this works fine with non-english captions |
| 16:05 |
erle |
also i'm pretty sure you'd appreciate having unicode on signs right? |
| 16:05 |
erle |
localhost i can do much more than latin 1 |
| 16:06 |
erle |
i can do astral plane characters and combining characters |
| 16:06 |
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| 16:07 |
erle |
localhost look here for example renderings: https://github.com/minetest/blog/issues/129 |
| 16:07 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> in all honesty, i'll probably have to review this in the future, i've woken with a migraine and my motivation isn't high right now. i'm gaming and recharging. i have a feeling that my knowledge in this area is limited, so my focus on whether it would be easy to pick up and understand without that level of knowledge |
| 16:07 |
erle |
oh it's mostly about the API shape, not a code review |
| 16:08 |
erle |
i just want to know if the example code at the top of the readme is okay with you basically |
| 16:08 |
erle |
or if there is anything missing that is crucial for your use case |
| 16:08 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> fair enough. i'll bookmark, and try to get to it, but yeah, initial impressions when you showed this a few months ago were very positive |
| 16:08 |
erle |
it's basically the same. i had someone tell me last night about otf2bdf |
| 16:09 |
erle |
so if i implemented a bdf parser (or someone else did) we could actually render arbitrary stuff on signs lol |
| 16:09 |
erle |
from OTF fonts |
| 16:09 |
erle |
right now, it's limited to unifont, unifont upper, unifont CSUR and some japanese font i think (well i only load .hex files) |
| 16:09 |
erle |
ancientmariner do you think you can give me feedback within the next 6 hours or so if the API looks okay for you? |
| 16:09 |
erle |
bc i kinda want to get this on cdb so people start using it |
| 16:11 |
erle |
btw, pls don't complain about the io.lines() thing. a bunch of people did and it seems it only is obvious to people actually using the library that not all glyphs come from font files, some might be generated or inline in the source code. |
| 16:13 |
erle |
sofar you have signs in inside the box, right? do you have opinions on my unicode_text mod? |
| 16:13 |
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| 16:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> documentation looks good, and easy to pick up. i'm not keen on the io.lines tbh but i could wrap that in a function |
| 16:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> is there any issues with escaping user input? or would you advocate before sending into your api? |
| 16:14 |
erle |
nope, not at all. you just submit UTF-8 encoded text. |
| 16:15 |
erle |
i mean so far no one HAS tried to break it |
| 16:15 |
erle |
but i am pretty sure the worst you could get was a visual impression of control characters |
| 16:15 |
erle |
like, let me see |
| 16:15 |
erle |
whatever unifont has at 0x02 if someone sent \2 ig? |
| 16:15 |
erle |
appguru / luatic probably knows if this is an issue |
| 16:16 |
erle |
so what i do is: 1. i decode the input with the utf8 module to code points. 2. i put the codepoints together into a bitmap. |
| 16:16 |
erle |
there is some incomplete bidi magic which you can see in the example rendering |
| 16:17 |
erle |
but if i understand it correctly approx. no one is using hebrew or arabic (which renders without connected glyphs) in minetest anyway so far (and it can be improved later) |
| 16:17 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> hopefully the size requirements aren't too onerous, and i'd probably want to make sure unused sign text images are deleted |
| 16:18 |
erle |
your signs are probably not bigger than … 64×128 or so? |
| 16:18 |
erle |
with most of that being empty space |
| 16:18 |
erle |
like you have at most four lines of text and i guess like 16 or so half-width characters per line |
| 16:19 |
erle |
with those constraints i can make a very weak guarantee: no sign can exceed the typical size of a map in mcl_maps (they are 128×128 i think) haha |
| 16:20 |
erle |
but see the bottom of the readme |
| 16:20 |
erle |
for a very simple hack |
| 16:20 |
erle |
anyway, i am caring about the API shape right now |
| 16:20 |
erle |
performance concerns can be addressed later |
| 16:20 |
erle |
make it correct first, then make it fast |
| 16:28 |
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| 16:31 |
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| 16:34 |
erle |
ancientmariner i have a simple trick for making sure the unused images are deleted: save the text in the meta of the entity displaying the texture. i do that in xmaps. it means 1. you can delete the textures folder at any time and they can be restored 2. it works in map downloads. |
| 16:34 |
erle |
i mean xmaps has to save the actual map |
| 16:34 |
erle |
but like a sign entity *probably* can contain its text |
| 16:34 |
erle |
then you just have to make sure that you regenerate the sign if the file does not exist |
| 16:35 |
muurkha |
I think it's common for people to design APIs that cannot be implemented fast if they aren't concerned about performance at all |
| 16:35 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> good point, and i suppose if changed, delete file generated from it |
| 16:35 |
muurkha |
hey, that sounds like a job for a... |
| 16:36 |
erle |
muurkha in this one i am pretty sure i am concerned about performance |
| 16:36 |
erle |
there is a bit of performance tuning you can still do |
| 16:36 |
erle |
the loops are not optimized |
| 16:36 |
erle |
but that *can* be done fast |
| 16:36 |
erle |
i mean faster |
| 16:39 |
erle |
ancientmariner given the amount of people complaining about the music thing, why is mineclone2 music not just a separate modpack? |
| 16:39 |
erle |
i mean i am a bit sceptical of the claims that music makes the game not run on their computers |
| 16:39 |
erle |
but like, in general, why is it bundled at all if it is not a vital component? |
| 16:41 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> IMHO, it is a vital component. I have heard more positive comments than negative. Even some who were skeptical later praised the quality of it |
| 16:41 |
erle |
i see, it's a game design question |
| 16:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> I think I heard about 5 negative comments |
| 16:42 |
erle |
in my experience, that's massive actually |
| 16:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> Mt 5.8 should improve loading of media |
| 16:42 |
erle |
like whenever i got 5 negative comments about the samething for software i wrote, i was like “uh what's the issue” |
| 16:42 |
erle |
i mean sometimes they are all the same kind of clueless |
| 16:42 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> So its a temporary issue for the handful |
| 16:43 |
erle |
but in this case, why do you think that the game runs poorly? (as i said, i am sceptical of the music thing being the reason) |
| 16:43 |
erle |
what exactly does mt 5.8 different here? |
| 16:43 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> Many reasons. Poorly optimised. Abms, lbms need investigation |
| 16:43 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> Global steps also |
| 16:44 |
erle |
i thought you kinda optimized that? |
| 16:44 |
erle |
like i have not tried it |
| 16:44 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> It's a long grind. Made many positive steps. Single player experience is solid |
| 16:44 |
erle |
but i remember you being big on monitoring performance at some point in thepast |
| 16:44 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> Network could be giving us prpblems |
| 16:45 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> And my knowledge isn't great on what is causing it. Any pointers in that regard would be really appreciated as I know you've put work into this in the past |
| 16:45 |
erle |
having cleaned up network stuff for mcl2 in the past, the only reason for network problems were a) oversized items (which i do not think you can create with new versions of mcl2) b) extremely shitty mods that were developed by 1000 monkeys on 1000 typewriters |
| 16:46 |
erle |
ancientmariner i suggest to monitor the raw network traffic while you do something in the game |
| 16:46 |
erle |
this is how i did it |
| 16:46 |
erle |
like for each packet, find a justification if it needs to be sent |
| 16:47 |
erle |
i think the stupidest thing was that some stuff was sent all the time (if the player is sprinting i think) |
| 16:47 |
celeron55 |
i would love to watch a video of someone doing that type of optimization work on something running on MT |
| 16:47 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> I tried wireshark and my eyes glazed over. Network is a weakness in my skill set. Wouldn't know where to start |
| 16:47 |
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| 16:48 |
erle |
celeron55 it's super fucking boring though |
| 16:48 |
erle |
like you have these small things and save a byte here and save a byte there |
| 16:48 |
erle |
usually there is no one big thing |
| 16:49 |
erle |
this is, by the way, why i focus on small incremental improvements (if the architecture is sound) |
| 16:49 |
celeron55 |
well, it wouldn't be for everyone, but it would be much more interesting than a generic programming video |
| 16:49 |
ROllerozxa |
"i suggest to monitor the raw network traffic while you do something in the game" how does one do that? |
| 16:49 |
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| 16:49 |
celeron55 |
wireshark |
| 16:50 |
erle |
ROllerozxa, wireshark and piping the debug output into https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/src/branch/master/tools/analyze-packet-spam if you are lazy |
| 16:50 |
erle |
the thing about the small incremental improvements is that sometimes you have a small thing that is *everywhere* |
| 16:51 |
erle |
for example, a subset of mod devs seems to think that putting everything in a globalstep makes stuff easier to reason about than having it event-driven (i.e. the code only running when it should) |
| 16:51 |
erle |
the problem is, yeah, it is easier to reason about: but it happens in every global step then |
| 16:52 |
ROllerozxa |
ah, wireshark. I was wondering if there was anything higher-level, maybe something that would annotate the packets or something |
| 16:52 |
erle |
you can get surprisingly far with that shell script i linked (and wrote) |
| 16:52 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> that would be lovely, even on seeing the traffic, it's hard to pinpoint what calls it is and from where |
| 16:52 |
erle |
but in the end you may need wireshark or put printf debug statements in the network stack |
| 16:53 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> if there is ways to debug which server -> client calls are made, it could really help |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
wireshark can annotate them if you have the dissector installed |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
if you don't need so much detail you can easily just read the debug logs |
| 16:53 |
erle |
is the dissector actually maintained? |
| 16:53 |
erle |
like it was not always too useful for me |
| 16:54 |
erle |
compared to, say, printing from the packet handler |
| 16:54 |
erle |
or – sacrilege – using a cheat client |
| 16:54 |
erle |
(which is about the same tbh) |
| 16:55 |
erle |
i think the funniest thing is that cora found one bug that was actually also in minetest_game (and had been in there forever) |
| 16:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> > using a cheat client |
| 16:55 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> but CSM restrictions... |
| 16:55 |
erle |
ancientmariner, btw a good first approximation would be to simply measure bandwith |
| 16:55 |
celeron55 |
i guess it depends on how low or high level information you need. wireshark is targeted towards low level, MT's debug logs are targeted towards high level |
| 16:56 |
erle |
earlier mcl2 versions for example were able to let players be on fire multiple times |
| 16:56 |
erle |
and being on fire would create traffic |
| 16:56 |
erle |
i think cora managed to have like 400kb/s for one player by being on fire very much but not dying hehe |
| 16:56 |
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| 16:57 |
erle |
so ancientmariner i would initially just monitor server-client traffic while playing the game – and at ANY point where you get much more sustained traffic than minetest_game, figure out what could have caused it |
| 16:57 |
erle |
with sustained i mean: obv you have traffic when you teleport (nether or end or overworld mapblocks are loading) or when you make a map (the map is transmitted) |
| 16:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i did do a little starting mt in debug mode and managed to find some ely issues, but some of the classifications are quite generic and it's hard to know what is doing them |
| 16:58 |
erle |
but when you stand still, for example, you should not have much more traffic than minetest_game |
| 16:58 |
erle |
so just start with that |
| 16:58 |
erle |
ideally stand still on a server with other people and on a server without them |
| 16:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> ah, i guess using mtg as a baseline might be a good idea |
| 16:59 |
erle |
yeah, you might have momentarily more traffic than it, but you generally should not have any problem here |
| 16:59 |
erle |
for me this was the most common thing that is invisible to server profiling |
| 17:00 |
erle |
too much traffic |
| 17:00 |
erle |
ancientmariner i also suggest what my ex boyfriend suggested: speedrun the game on the worst machine you can find in your house before every release. a speedrun does not take more than 20 or 30 minutes. |
| 17:01 |
erle |
and also you can let someone else do that |
| 17:01 |
erle |
you'll notice performance regressions pretty fast |
| 17:01 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> sp is in a good place. we've had good feedback from people on 2 core machines |
| 17:01 |
erle |
wdym |
| 17:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> singleplayer is smooth, and very playable for the most part |
| 17:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> you get a server with 7-10 players, and all hell breaks loose |
| 17:02 |
erle |
oh |
| 17:02 |
erle |
yeah that had been in the past |
| 17:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> mapblocks taking 10+s to load |
| 17:02 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> your database 20GB+? |
| 17:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> chest entities not loading in that time also is quite common |
| 17:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> sqlite3? |
| 17:03 |
erle |
and the steps to solve it are exactly what i outlined: check for traffic spikes, look at debug output (or let the script do it), use wireshark, instrument the network packet handling of the client |
| 17:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> these aren't my servers, servers that run the game |
| 17:03 |
erle |
localhost it is very unllikely that it is an sqlite problem |
| 17:03 |
erle |
most people are not very conservative with their traffic, because they only check singleplayer |
| 17:04 |
erle |
i mean i myself introduced a race condition because i only tested in singleplayer |
| 17:04 |
erle |
appguru / luatic can confirm that ;) |
| 17:04 |
erle |
i need to fix xmaps |
| 17:04 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> singleplayer nick reserved only for local game or possible to use? :D |
| 17:04 |
erle |
lol |
| 17:05 |
erle |
says the person with the nick localhost |
| 17:05 |
erle |
ancientmariner a hint: changing entity attributes might send a network package |
| 17:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> yeah |
| 17:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> :D |
| 17:05 |
erle |
bc of course the client needs to know |
| 17:05 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> yeah, i've been thinking about that when optimising, but couldn't make a dint in the packets |
| 17:06 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> but i think we do need to audit and make it as infrequent as it can be |
| 17:06 |
erle |
another thing i can suggest is to disable all mods and enable them one by one. this requires you to have a proper mod structure where mods can be disabled and enabled on their own. |
| 17:07 |
erle |
(i.e. the thing i frequently complain about is actually important) |
| 17:07 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> ah, interesting idea |
| 17:08 |
erle |
i'm pretty sure if you have not changed the mod structure in the last 6 months or so it is not easily possible |
| 17:08 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i guess doing so, i'll learn more |
| 17:08 |
erle |
like, it's not your fault, almost everyone was dismissing my “if you add something, add it as a clean small mod” |
| 17:09 |
erle |
you probably have had to deal a lot with people who prefer big-ball-of-mud mods |
| 17:09 |
erle |
because they could not specify a dependency graph if their life depended on it |
| 17:09 |
erle |
oh one more thing |
| 17:09 |
erle |
hear me out |
| 17:10 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i think a lot of people don't think about this and why it's important. it's only when you need to do things like this, you realise |
| 17:10 |
erle |
ancientmariner i have an idea: laughing obsidian! |
| 17:10 |
erle |
:D |
| 17:10 |
erle |
yeah, but the problem is that if people are incompetent at systems design they still have opinions |
| 17:10 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i guess if mojang implement, it'll be another bit of pointless content someone will be desperate to add in |
| 17:10 |
erle |
hehehe |
| 17:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i don't like to blame folk. i don't think you realise how rich your experience is. it isn't other people's fault they aren't at your level |
| 17:11 |
erle |
nah |
| 17:11 |
erle |
but arrogance is a fault |
| 17:11 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> it's just finding ways that people can develop that knowledge |
| 17:11 |
erle |
(look who is speaking, me, i'd never be arrogant hahahaha) |
| 17:12 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i have joked that i used to think open source was built on altruism. i later learnt it was built on ego |
| 17:12 |
erle |
the easiest way that i have seen people develop knowledge is to reject their patches with appropriate comments on why they are bad, so they try again next time. i know you do not like this very much, as it is – i must admit – a bit mean. but it is knowledge transfer. |
| 17:12 |
erle |
it can also be demotivating |
| 17:12 |
erle |
but sometimes i think that is for the best |
| 17:13 |
erle |
in early minetest someone implemented a whole weather system |
| 17:13 |
erle |
but that person did not adjust their code correctly |
| 17:13 |
erle |
so obv it was more of a drive-by PR |
| 17:13 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i don't object to it, and i tend to block stuff that takes things backwards. i review harder for people that have had a few prs in, so build people up one step at a time |
| 17:13 |
erle |
shoot in the general direction of the project and press the trigger |
| 17:13 |
erle |
then drive away |
| 17:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> main reason i jump in now is finding nodes or objects near on global steps |
| 17:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> it's horrific on the cpu and done far too frequently |
| 17:14 |
erle |
do you know about semgrep |
| 17:14 |
erle |
you can code patterns to find this kind of thing automatically |
| 17:14 |
erle |
i used semgrep to find dupes |
| 17:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i agree with your assessment that things should be event driven where possible |
| 17:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i'm not familiar with semgrep, but then i've also never tried luacheck (i did try to set it up, failed badly and didn't care enough) |
| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> wait, MCL is not using luacheck? |
| 17:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> MCl2* |
| 17:15 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> some do |
| 17:16 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> afcms is big on it, for example |
| 17:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Not mandating static linting when the codebase is this large and you have many contributors is a pretty bad idea tbh |
| 17:17 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> but then again, static code analysis still needs brains applied to it. i've seen prod bugs introduced at work because someone fixed static code analysis bugs and broke crucial functionality |
| 17:17 |
erle |
ancientmariner regarding these people trying to optimize the music, i strongly suggest you block every single one of those PRs unless they can explain what the nyquist frequency is and what commands they used |
| 17:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ancientmariner: of course, but having it in the first step is crucial |
| 17:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> lua allows you to make so many dumb mistakes that luacheck will happily catch |
| 17:18 |
erle |
ancientmariner what you do with semgrep is not like a normal linter. you fix a bug and then code a pattern for that problem to never introduce it again |
| 17:18 |
erle |
ancientmariner: like here where i abstracted the code pattern that enabled ghost dupes https://git.minetest.land/Mineclonia/Mineclonia/issues/292 |
| 17:19 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i agree it's useful, and probably something we need to do more of |
| 17:19 |
[MTMatrix] |
<ancientmariner> i have a feeling if luacheck was run on mcl2, computers would explode ;) |
| 17:19 |
erle |
as you can see my pattern finds every block that can be used to ghost dupe |
| 17:19 |
erle |
even though the code is kinda different |
| 17:20 |
erle |
and there are no false positives either |
| 17:20 |
erle |
you should do this for every bug that has a “shape” |
| 17:20 |
erle |
i.e. also for every performance fix |
| 17:20 |
erle |
“you” as in “every single one of you“ |
| 17:21 |
erle |
luatic what's newton's first law? |
| 17:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> was it actio = reactio or conservation of momentum |
| 17:22 |
erle |
no credit for partial answers :P |
| 17:22 |
erle |
luatic watch this: https://onion.tube/watch?v=OPRIUJzmkC0 |
| 17:22 |
erle |
it will amuse you |
| 17:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> impressed....maggots |
| 17:24 |
erle |
luatic there is also this amazing rap song about kalman filters: https://onion.tube/watch?v=_LjN3UclYzU |
| 17:25 |
erle |
the flow is unreal |
| 18:01 |
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| 18:02 |
mazes_83 |
wow I wouldn't think there was songs about kalman filters |
| 18:06 |
muurkha |
it doesn't mention Kalman filters at all, even a little bit |
| 18:06 |
erle |
muurkha wait what is the song about then |
| 18:08 |
erle |
muurkha i always thought what it was describing was a kalman filter |
| 18:08 |
erle |
muurkha, what is the actual name of the thing it describes |
| 18:09 |
muurkha |
maybe negative feedback? |
| 18:09 |
muurkha |
the text is mostly a joke, though |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
it is somewhat about Kalman filters |
| 18:09 |
Krock |
because that's a method to make an educated guess about an object's position or speed |
| 18:10 |
erle |
the text is very repetitve |
| 18:10 |
muurkha |
it doesn't mention noisy measurements, Gaussian distributions, prior and posterior distributions |
| 18:10 |
erle |
it is from a 1997 air force text about missile guidance i think |
| 18:10 |
muurkha |
the text applies equally well to navigation using dead reckoning, for example |
| 18:10 |
muurkha |
or to navigation using particle filters |
| 18:11 |
erle |
well i see |
| 18:11 |
erle |
it's not specific enough |
| 18:11 |
muurkha |
right, it describes a problem to which a Kalman filter could be applied |
| 18:11 |
muurkha |
but it doesn't describe actually applying the Kalman filter to it |
| 18:11 |
muurkha |
or even the conditions that would make a Kalman filter a particularly good solution |
| 18:11 |
rubenwardy |
a kalman filter does let you know where the missile is not |
| 18:12 |
rubenwardy |
assuming that's what the video is about |
| 18:12 |
muurkha |
only in the sense that it lets you know where it is |
| 18:12 |
jonadab |
Someone should write a song about the non-trivial zeroes of the zeta function. |
| 18:12 |
erle |
the text is from here, on page 5, unter the heading “GLCM GUIDANCE SYSTEM” https://web.archive.org/web/20160903175603/http://afmissileers.com/newsletters/NL1997/Dec97.pdf |
| 18:12 |
muurkha |
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-missile-knows-where-it-is |
| 18:13 |
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| 18:14 |
muurkha |
as explained above the text, "it may not be the first time you have seen this — [it] seems to apply to all guidance systems" |
| 18:14 |
erle |
i see that you are right |
| 18:16 |
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| 18:16 |
erle |
jonadab the green party in germany traditionally hosts an “ask us anything” before elections and multiple times i have seen the question “do all non-trivial zeroes of the riemann zeta function have the real part ½ ?” |
| 18:17 |
erle |
the song is actually about how we are nothing to the missile but just another target |
| 18:18 |
muurkha |
that's the spirit |
| 18:19 |
erle |
the missile has studied gorilla warfare and graduated as one of the top of its class or something |
| 18:20 |
* muurkha |
studies chimpanzee warfare |
| 18:22 |
erle |
i am not credible enough to join the 3000 femboy propaganda officers of NAFO ._. |
| 18:24 |
erle |
celeron55 the problem with extremely boring coding stuff is i think also that it takes a long while |
| 18:24 |
erle |
celeron55 like lizzy & me took like 9 hours to figure out the stencil shadows thing completely |
| 18:24 |
erle |
or something like that |
| 18:25 |
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| 18:25 |
muurkha |
someone who doesn't know you might think 'femboy' is pejorative |
| 18:26 |
erle |
you are the second person claiming that |
| 18:26 |
erle |
to me |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:26 |
erle |
like in which part of the world is femboy not an exaggerated opposite of tomboy? |
| 18:29 |
erle |
old but good “you are likely to be eaten by a grue” https://onion.tube/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE |
| 18:29 |
muurkha |
people often think 'tomboy' is pejorative, but because patriarchy, only mildly. hierarchical structured oppositions blah blah blah |
| 18:32 |
erle |
muurkha, the left must be forcefemmed! https://content.queer.party/media/cache/media_attachments/files/111/017/534/605/268/832/original/1ddbad52611c58c5.png |
| 18:34 |
muurkha |
hahaha |
| 18:35 |
muurkha |
anyway you can get beaten up for being a tomboy but not usually raped. being a femboy often gets you robbed, raped, or straight up killed. depending on social milieu, of course |
| 18:36 |
erle |
i live in berlin though |
| 18:37 |
erle |
wearing a black miniskirt gets some positive attention from women between 20 and 30 and rare negative attention from really old men |
| 18:40 |
muurkha |
yeah, a thing I really appreciated about San Francisco was that I no longer had to worry about getting beaten up for being gay |
| 18:41 |
muurkha |
the funny thing about that is that I've never so much as had a dick in my mouth. nobody cared |
| 18:42 |
erle |
i had this funny experience in cologne earlier this year, i asked a woman for the way to the subway station |
| 18:42 |
erle |
and she told me the way and told me that she totally knows that i'm definitely not straight |
| 18:42 |
erle |
how do you know i asked her |
| 18:42 |
erle |
“i'm a lesbian, i can tell!” |
| 18:42 |
erle |
weird, but amused me until i fell asleep that day |
| 18:43 |
muurkha |
heh |
| 18:50 |
erle |
the weirdest case of negative attention i got was when me and my then-bf were called a homophobic slur in amsterdam … in a gay street next to some gay establishment. like, yeah, uh. who else would hang out there? |
| 18:51 |
erle |
it was obviously not dangerous, but just super weird |
| 18:54 |
sofar |
erle: no comment on the unicode_text thing. But I don't think I understand the mechanics fully. Do the bitmaps get generated offline? Does the server need to be restarted after bitmaps are generated? |
| 18:55 |
erle |
sofar it is simply a pure-lua unicode rendering library. unicode text goes in, bitmap falls out. |
| 18:55 |
erle |
i mean, it's actually more nuanced than that |
| 18:55 |
erle |
but that's the gist |
| 18:55 |
sofar |
so you'd have to code a different mod to attach these textures to nodes etc. okay. |
| 18:56 |
erle |
yes, this is purely an expression of my disgust with the way people piece together signs out of dozens of small image files holding a single character each |
| 18:56 |
erle |
which obviously does not scale as well as … uh … loading a font |
| 18:56 |
erle |
(to all unicode characters, i mean) |
| 18:56 |
erle |
sofar the end goal is to have unicode on signs |
| 18:57 |
sofar |
one of the ways to improve things is to make media content dynamically loadable, barring that you're achieved it I think |
| 18:57 |
erle |
out of scope |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
we've had dynamic media for a few releases |
| 18:57 |
erle |
i just render to texture, dynamic media exists |
| 18:57 |
rubenwardy |
just not on nodes |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
entities? |
| 18:58 |
erle |
sofar i have written an extremely shitty unreleased mod that uses it to make textures for a bunch of nodes to show off that i can do the full range of unicode (well, whatever is in the supplied font) https://github.com/minetest/blog/issues/129#issuecomment-1705650724 |
| 18:58 |
erle |
cora has already made a thing that puts it on entities |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
I read the github issue |
| 18:58 |
erle |
also, signs actually often have entities on them for the text |
| 18:58 |
erle |
this is funny because you can use pistons sometimes (depending on the game) to push the text away from the sign |
| 18:59 |
erle |
so it floats in thin air |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
signs using entities are cringe |
| 18:59 |
erle |
i used to do that as part of my mcl2 “make the servers weird” gameplay |
| 18:59 |
erle |
sofar how do you do it non-cringe |
| 18:59 |
sofar |
fix the engine to support dynamic server side textures |
| 19:00 |
erle |
yeah, but *what* would have the dynamic texture |
| 19:00 |
erle |
something must have it |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
rubenwardy: so could you currently dynamically modify/load/update player model textures? |
| 19:00 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 19:00 |
rubenwardy |
there's an API to send new media files to clients at run time |
| 19:00 |
rubenwardy |
players and entities have dynamic definitions, so can use dynamic media |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
Cool, I have to look at that then |
| 19:00 |
rubenwardy |
nodes have fixed definitions, so the texture name cannot change |
| 19:01 |
rubenwardy |
you cannot update or remove media currently, only send new media |
| 19:01 |
erle |
sofar it's a bit hard to get right for all cases because the api has 3 different versions. ask appguru for details or look at this thing ig: https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/xmaps/pulls/2 |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
rubenwardy: seems like a sane trade off. |
| 19:03 |
erle |
sofar basically, the same function for sending media exists in minetest 5.3, 5.4, 5.5, but: it takes one parameter in 5.3, two parameters in the 5.4 and suddenly became asynchronous in the last. you can probably see how this is … not the best API upgrade design (it lead to a lot of race conditions). in any case, you can *probably* just ask appguru / luatic if you can reuse that code from the PR for xmaps (that i still need to tes |
| 19:03 |
erle |
t and hopefully merge). |
| 19:04 |
erle |
sofar the most common error (i made it twice even) seems to be to assume that if one player received media, all received it. at least that is what i take from the PR. |
| 19:06 |
erle |
sofar, IIRC appguru / luatic also had this idea to just kick all players that have pre-5.5 minetest to use this feature, which is easier to program and safer, but i consider it a dick move |
| 19:07 |
erle |
sofar as far as i can see the most widespread use of dynamic media is mcl_maps from mineclone2 and mineclonia. disregard the mineclone5 version … |
| 19:07 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I think sofar presented an interesting idea which may yield a better solution so long as no fancy effects that texmods can't achieve are desired |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you could send glyph textures on demand, then piece together texture modifiers based on those; glyphs that have already been sent wouldn't need to be resent |
| 19:09 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> so for example if "hello world" is to be generated, then a glyph texture containing the unique letters "eolwrdh" will be sent to everyone, and the server would memorize that it has sent these glyphs and under which texture name and at which positions they are |
| 19:12 |
MTDiscord |
<bla8722> sounds like bitmap font snippets |
| 19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yeah |
| 19:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> there are various variations of this caching thinkable, such as dividing the code point table into segments of a fixed length (say, 256 glyphs), and hoping that there is enough locality - not sure how well that would work, but it would allow the dynamic media to be cached on disk (since these "pages" of glyphs won't vary) |
| 19:16 |
sofar |
For signs I'm envisioning just sending Fonts and letting client side render signs on nodes (instead of entities). That's what I had in mind years ago when I dreamed up a better solution. |
| 19:20 |
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| 19:27 |
erle |
sofar i have lookad at all of these and determined that the simplest (and most backwards-compatible) solution is rendering a unicode to a texture |
| 19:27 |
erle |
i mean i have looked at all proposals that were issues |
| 19:27 |
erle |
and yes, i thought about the send-a-font-as-a-giant-texture thing |
| 19:28 |
sofar |
Just send the TTF file or whatever fonts are in |
| 19:28 |
erle |
.hex lol |
| 19:29 |
erle |
i think i need a FAQ entry for “but the engine should handle it”, maybe it should, but it does not and it can not *possibly* achieve the “edit the pixels table after you rendered the text” thing. |
| 19:29 |
erle |
like i can do text effects (you see the color thing) on the cheap. like embossing or whatever |
| 19:30 |
erle |
i believe you can send 2 giant pictures that are maybe 2MB each (if you are lucky) for unifont, but *good luck* lol |
| 19:31 |
erle |
sofar do you have any comments about the actual API i have? |
| 19:33 |
erle |
luatic i have no re-read your (?) proposal and i am really astonished at the level of architecture astronautics hehe |
| 19:34 |
erle |
> for example if "hello world" is to be generated, then a glyph texture containing the unique letters "eolwrdh" will be sent to everyone, and the server would memorize that it has sent these glyphs and under which texture name and at which positions they are |
| 19:34 |
erle |
this is comedy gold |
| 19:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I was just spitballing ok :P |
| 19:35 |
erle |
nah i love it |
| 19:35 |
erle |
it leads to players creating adversarial signs |
| 19:35 |
erle |
hehe |
| 19:35 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> who make mapserver for minetest exists in this chat? |
| 19:37 |
erle |
localhost, if you want an ingame map, use xmaps or mcl_maps (i am the author of xmaps). if you want an out-of-game online map for a browser, use https://github.com/minetest-mapserver/mapserver and ask … BuckarooBanzai ? |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:41 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> I just want ask how make hard limited map border (no scroll outside this border)... |
| 19:46 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> Or how make this limit in minetest world (no walk/fly/etc outside), no make walls, just really hard limited world include air zone |
| 19:47 |
erle |
localhost there is some map border mod on cdb. it will not do *exactly* what you want, but i think it can come pretty close |
| 19:48 |
erle |
localhost try it |
| 19:58 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> wait a sec |
| 19:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> MapFactory.js; i find it here, just maxBounds |
| 19:59 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> this not ideal, but works |
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| 20:35 |
jonadab |
A perverse part of my brain kind of wants to do the opposite (make the coordinates 64-bit), despite how impractical such a large world would be. |
| 20:38 |
erle |
jonadab the near-term impractical thing is that you need to make something else |
| 20:39 |
erle |
already positional calculations near the map-border are not too accurate |
| 20:39 |
erle |
even though lua is using doubles internally i think |
| 20:40 |
erle |
unfortunately, a proposed refactor towards the goal of bigger maps was summarily executed some time back. did someone necro it since then? |
| 20:40 |
jonadab |
Not to my knowledge. |
| 20:40 |
jonadab |
In practical terms, it isn't necessary. The existing world size is adequate even for quite active public servers. |
| 20:41 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: I think the problem is that the engine uses floats, not Lua using doubles. |
| 20:41 |
jonadab |
But, you know, that doesn't stop my geek brain from thinking "it would be so cool if..." |
| 20:42 |
erle |
luatic the wasn't the refactor about it |
| 20:42 |
erle |
jonadab, look at the 3 PRs that tried just that |
| 20:42 |
erle |
making the world bigger is a thing |
| 20:42 |
erle |
but you need to fix a lot of stupid coordinate things |
| 20:42 |
erle |
and also make sure that the behaviour at the map border stays the same |
| 20:42 |
jonadab |
What would be more practical, and probably not very much more difficult, would be redesigning the game so that nodes are a cubic foot instead of a cubic yard, or put another way, so that the player is 5-6 blocks tall instead of 2-3 blocks tall. This would completely eliminate the need for stairs and slabs. |
| 20:43 |
erle |
LOL |
| 20:43 |
erle |
> a cubic foot |
| 20:43 |
erle |
what brainrot unit is that |
| 20:43 |
erle |
i mean it is a bit funny |
| 20:43 |
erle |
because the player avaters probably have … cubic … foots |
| 20:43 |
erle |
jonadab, i think you can already grow and shrink players, there are mods for that |
| 20:45 |
jonadab |
A number of existing modules would need to be adjusted, including default. (For example, tree trunks would probably end up being made of wood blocks surrounded by bark blocks...) |
| 20:46 |
jonadab |
But at that scale, it would be reasonable to let players step onto a block without jumping, meaning, stairs and slabs would not be needed at all. |
| 20:46 |
jonadab |
Which would cut a LOT of fat out of the block list in the inventory screen, with no loss of functionality. |
| 20:47 |
jonadab |
Very large structures would take longer to build, though. |
| 20:47 |
erle |
jonadab, make a game like that go go go |
| 20:48 |
jonadab |
Don't tempt me. |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erle: the refactor was about allowing switching from f32 + s32 to f64 + s64, using typedefs i think |
| 20:49 |
erle |
luatic and it was killed death |
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