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| 11:10 |
erle |
not sure if anyone even tried it, but if you tried and failed, the first example in the README contained typos. so try again: https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/unicode_text |
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| 16:07 |
rut9992 |
I get this error when i start up a mineclone or a mesecraft game: ERROR[Main]: Some exception: "std::bad_alloc". I am on openbsd with the official package (version 5.6.0). I tried to play with the base minetest game and it works flawlessly. Can someone help me? |
| 16:08 |
sfan5 |
that means Minetest ran out of RAM |
| 16:10 |
rut9992 |
I know, but why does it work on minetest game? Also, is 4GB not enough? I also did not notice huge usage of the RAM on htop while the game loaded but i don't know if that is somewhat truthful or relevant |
| 16:12 |
sfan5 |
minetest game is a bunch simpler and less demanding |
| 16:14 |
sfan5 |
4GB should be "enough" but that's not a very useful statement without knowing how much your OS or other apps are using |
| 16:15 |
rut9992 |
i am not using anything else on purpose, just st terminal to monitor minetest and the minetest processes themselves |
| 16:24 |
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| 16:24 |
sfan5 |
just booted up a new mesecraft game on default settings, 1600MB process usage |
| 16:26 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> oof |
| 16:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> bruh moment, mesecraft contains a "mods disabled" folder of about 60 MB |
| 16:27 |
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| 16:28 |
ROllerozxa |
still have no idea why the disabled mods folder still shows up in the release even though it's excluded in the gitattribute |
| 16:28 |
ROllerozxa |
s |
| 16:28 |
celeron55 |
rut9992: do you have some swap space enabled on disk or are you running ram only? |
| 16:30 |
celeron55 |
with that amount of ram you do want to enable some swap |
| 16:30 |
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| 16:32 |
celeron55 |
generally speaking, 4 GB isn't enough for a modern OS + modern applications (like a web browser). i mean, if you called to any type of IT support and stated you have 4 GB of ram they'd tell you have to get more |
| 16:33 |
celeron55 |
you probably can do with 4 GB, but it's up to you to proof you can |
| 16:33 |
celeron55 |
prove* |
| 16:34 |
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| 17:15 |
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| 17:15 |
hare_hare_yukai |
ERROR[Main]: /home/minetest/.var/app/net.minetest.Minetest/.minetest/mods/mineclone2/init.lua: No such file or directory |
| 17:15 |
hare_hare_yukai |
how do i fix this |
| 17:15 |
hare_hare_yukai |
on flatpak run net.minetest.Minetest --server |
| 17:17 |
sfan5 |
don't put mineclone into your mods folder |
| 17:17 |
sfan5 |
it's not a mod |
| 17:20 |
hare_hare_yukai |
oh, /games then? |
| 17:22 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 17:31 |
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| 18:26 |
erle |
celeron55 uh, i have 2GB of RAM and it's pretty okay |
| 18:26 |
erle |
celeron55 i use i3, firefox, hexchat, gajim |
| 18:27 |
erle |
there exists exactly one website that firefox can not load with that setup and that is the discord register site |
| 18:27 |
erle |
probably because it was made by extremely talented monkeys who just randomly pushed buttons on some extremely worn-out typewriters |
| 18:29 |
rubenwardy |
<ROllerozxa> still have no idea why the disabled mods folder still shows up in the release even though it's excluded in the gitattribute |
| 18:29 |
rubenwardy |
It shouldn't have the ending / |
| 18:30 |
ROllerozxa |
...oh @_@ |
| 18:30 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> 💀 |
| 18:32 |
appguru |
erle squeezing out a few kb of MTG by using TGA, meanwhile packages on ContentDB are shipping a whopping 60 megs (1/3 of the package) "disabled mods" due to a stupid mistake xD |
| 18:32 |
erle |
appguru maybe, just maybe, my focus is not to save MTG, but to make generated textures smaller in the end. |
| 18:33 |
erle |
but yeah, there's a lot to do |
| 18:33 |
erle |
obj.z when |
| 18:33 |
appguru |
erle: heh yeah, generated textures are a different topic of course |
| 18:33 |
erle |
appguru you know mm3d? it's a pretty good simple 3d editor. if you open up a bunch of mcl2 things, you can find the models where adjacent triangles can be merged lol. |
| 18:34 |
appguru |
merged? as in, creating quads? |
| 18:34 |
appguru |
or as in merging same vertices? |
| 18:34 |
appguru |
fun fact: the b3d exporter seems to be pretty wasteful - it writes both zero bone weights and duplicates vertices |
| 18:34 |
erle |
appguru, merged as in there are dozens of triangles covering a single plane while two would suffice and this blows up the filesize |
| 18:35 |
appguru |
lol |
| 18:35 |
erle |
mm3d has a function where you select the entire plane and merge that away |
| 18:35 |
erle |
but for some reason no one seems to USE mm3d |
| 18:35 |
appguru |
well, I just looked at mesecraft's media bloat today, and most of it seems to come from sounds |
| 18:35 |
appguru |
also some .blend files which were left in there |
| 18:35 |
erle |
how can sounds be bloated? are they sampling rate 90000000? |
| 18:36 |
erle |
fun fact: i once found out that maybe, just maybe, some web applications that have ffmpeg take ffmpeg command line options if you put them in a file and call it .mp3 or .mp4 hehe |
| 18:36 |
erle |
that way you can stuff synthesizer commands for ffmpeg into a very small text file and fill the disk |
| 18:37 |
erle |
did i try it on anything i was not allowed to yo? of course not |
| 18:37 |
erle |
i would NEVER do cybercrime |
| 18:37 |
erle |
so only my employer's system got fixed |
| 18:37 |
erle |
have fun with this info! |
| 18:49 |
erle |
celeron55, generally, the one thing bringing down a 2GB computer is memory leaks, like endless scrolling without cleaning up stuff. but it brings down every computer, it just takes longer for those with more RAM. |
| 18:49 |
erle |
like no amount of RAM is going to defeat the memory leak demons |
| 18:49 |
mrkubax10 |
"talented monkeys who just randomly pushed buttons on some extremely worn-out typewriters" lol |
| 18:49 |
mrkubax10 |
that's a good one |
| 18:50 |
erle |
well i did web stuff myself, i know how this works |
| 18:50 |
erle |
you need to be extremely knowledgeful and do extremely stupid stuff despite that domain knowledge to get a webpage that hangs any browser |
| 18:50 |
mrkubax10 |
discord easily can use 700 MB of RAM btw |
| 18:50 |
erle |
yes, but i mean the *login/register* page in the web browser |
| 18:51 |
erle |
there is NO justification it should hang a browser tab |
| 18:51 |
erle |
none |
| 18:51 |
mrkubax10 |
true |
| 18:51 |
erle |
so they are probably doing something extremely stupid |
| 18:51 |
erle |
i mean there is other stuff |
| 18:51 |
erle |
software bugs that are not affecting performance happen every time |
| 18:51 |
erle |
for example, just today i ordered stuff at REWE (a german supermarket chain online) |
| 18:52 |
erle |
for some reason i got logged out when i was not at my computer for 30 minutes or so, no idea |
| 18:52 |
erle |
but as soon as i clicked login again, i could select my profile and be logged in again |
| 18:52 |
erle |
there is at least one bug here |
| 18:52 |
erle |
either they wanted to log me out and did not invalidate the session |
| 18:52 |
erle |
or they did not want to log me out and the state transition borked itself |
| 18:52 |
erle |
in any case, there is zero chance this is working as designed as i see it |
| 18:53 |
erle |
because then i'd have to input my credentials again to login |
| 18:53 |
MTDiscord |
<celeron55> erle: How much swap do you have along with 2 GB ram? |
| 18:54 |
erle |
celeron55, no idea, how do i find that out? |
| 18:54 |
erle |
on linux |
| 18:54 |
mrkubax10 |
did you set up swap partition? |
| 18:54 |
mrkubax10 |
if not then you don't have swap |
| 18:54 |
erle |
; LANG=C free |
| 18:54 |
erle |
total used free shared buff/cache available |
| 18:54 |
erle |
Mem: 2052896 1253100 331024 220620 468772 366344 |
| 18:54 |
erle |
Swap: 2093052 704880 1388172 |
| 18:55 |
erle |
celeron55, that the info you wanted? |
| 18:55 |
erle |
i have 2G swap |
| 18:56 |
erle |
free -h is better |
| 18:56 |
erle |
Mem: 2.0Gi 1.2Gi 294Mi 182Mi 439Mi 342Mi |
| 18:56 |
erle |
Swap: 2.0Gi 686Mi 1.3Gi |
| 18:56 |
erle |
celeron55 the thing is, i probably could not run KDE with this and expect any application to have RAM, but minetest runs just fine, and many other things do too |
| 18:57 |
erle |
my standard is ”if you can watch a youtube video at your screen resolution and do something beside is, your computer is *probably* not too shitty” |
| 18:57 |
erle |
which is funny, because last week i encountered a smart TV and it decided to crash itself only minutes after i tried to watch a perun video hehe |
| 18:58 |
erle |
like “you had ONE job” |
| 18:58 |
erle |
hehe |
| 18:59 |
erle |
celeron55, in general, i have found that people who don't use a low-end system mis-estimate with how little you can get away. they also tend to write shitty bloaty software. |
| 19:00 |
erle |
my go-to example: new versions of wings3d claim to not run on computers with old GPUs. but wings3d uses so little of a GPU that you can simply run it on those computers with LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 and not notice a difference (well, i haven't noticed one). |
| 19:00 |
erle |
so the creators of wings3d obv misestimate how little resources their app uses |
| 19:01 |
erle |
which is weird, because wings3d used to run just fine without complaining |
| 19:02 |
erle |
i think i could even run sway, but there was some reason why i don't want to |
| 19:02 |
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| 19:02 |
erle |
i mean i tried once |
| 19:02 |
erle |
it works |
| 19:11 |
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| 19:18 |
erle |
question: should i just disable the bidi algorithm for the release of unicode_text? |
| 19:18 |
erle |
i mean i have not ever seen anyone usi bidi text in minetest |
| 19:18 |
erle |
and my implementation is incomplete |
| 19:19 |
erle |
i'd appreciate feedback from people who know arabic or hebrew |
| 20:06 |
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| 20:19 |
erle |
what can definitely be said is that incompetent programmers may not know how to create software that runs on low-end devices lol https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues/3874 |
| 20:20 |
erle |
> I played this game some time ago and everything was very good, even stable fps but now it's not even starting( |
| 20:20 |
erle |
i *somehow* doubt that mcl2 has new features that justify requiring a supercomputer |
| 20:24 |
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| 21:10 |
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| 21:12 |
rut9992 |
celeron55 i have swap, but i am not sure if the RAM is the issue. I just installed openBSD on this 4GB laptop because it has a more powerful CPU. Old laptop has 8GB but i don't remember it using more than 4GB with minetest or mesecraft. I was wondering if it's more of an issue on the OpenBSD part. |
| 21:12 |
rut9992 |
Old laptop has arch |
| 21:13 |
rut9992 |
I didn't mention that after the first try on playing a game, if i retry it just segfaults and crashes. This is only with mesecraft and mineclone |
| 21:14 |
rut9992 |
One thing i noticed is that the openbsd version is 5.6.0 while the current is 5.6.1. I was thinking if it's not some compatibility issue with the mods and the base game version. Also because i don't have any issues playing the base minetest game. |
| 21:14 |
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| 21:38 |
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| 21:50 |
erle |
rut9992 well mineclone2 is notoriously bad about resource consumption. always has been except when cora was at the helm. |
| 21:50 |
erle |
(maybe wuzzy was good too, i don't know) |
| 21:51 |
erle |
rut9992 basically, if the maintainer has a good computer, that tends to be the minimum |
| 21:51 |
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| 21:51 |
erle |
unless they are really good at taking a perspective that is not their own |
| 21:51 |
erle |
i once complained about lag and the issue got retitled ”post your computer's specs” and everyone was making fun of me for having a “bad” computer |
| 21:52 |
muurkha |
haha |
| 21:52 |
erle |
IIRC the lag was some shit code sending a texture to the client 66 times per second to animate a flame |
| 21:52 |
erle |
i mean it tried |
| 21:52 |
erle |
i doubt it worked well |
| 21:53 |
erle |
something like that |
| 21:53 |
erle |
it was eventually fixed, but let's say the arrogance of people who have computers that are better than the once of bug reporters usually knows no bounds |
| 21:53 |
erle |
ones |
| 21:53 |
erle |
damn |
| 21:54 |
erle |
i slur my words in chat again |
| 21:54 |
erle |
when i was making a synthesizer library (libglitch) i chose the worst computer i had access to on purpose to create it |
| 21:54 |
erle |
because that forced me to not be overconfident in terms of resource consumption |
| 21:54 |
erle |
i can not remember *ever* getting reports about bad performance |
| 21:54 |
muurkha |
naw, you didn't develop libglitch on an Arduino |
| 21:54 |
erle |
i had no arduino |
| 21:54 |
appguru |
erle: btw do you know of a satisfying solution of attributing memory consumption? |
| 21:54 |
muurkha |
they were easy to get |
| 21:55 |
erle |
muurkha, i had difficulties paying my rent |
| 21:55 |
erle |
muurkha i was a poor student |
| 21:55 |
appguru |
as in, profiling memory usage to determine the "hotspots" |
| 21:55 |
muurkha |
how much was your rent? |
| 21:55 |
erle |
can't remember, my parents paid it. the difficulty was that they threatened not paying it unless i … don't talk publicly about not being monogamous for example. they have since come around hehe. |
| 21:56 |
erle |
when i was invited to a wedding, the groom reacted in a very vile verbal manner to my query “my wife can not come, can i just attend with my girlfriend?” |
| 21:56 |
muurkha |
oh, well, that's a situation that definitely limits your autonomy to spend money on Arduinos |
| 21:56 |
muurkha |
ugh, sorry to hear that |
| 21:57 |
erle |
i did not want to go anyway |
| 21:57 |
erle |
but my parents were like “don't talk to our child like that” hehe |
| 21:57 |
erle |
i mean, i was of age |
| 21:57 |
muurkha |
nice |
| 21:58 |
erle |
i guess it's like the saying “me against my brother; me and my brother against my cousin; me, my brother & my cousin against the entire village” or so |
| 21:58 |
muurkha |
my parents were surprised to hear I was dating someone else just before my wedding in March and suggested that maybe if my fiancée and I were going to be serious I shouldn't do that. I said I didn't think her boyfriend would appreciate that |
| 21:58 |
erle |
like the groom was overstepping his bounds in verbally abusing me because we were not related |
| 21:58 |
erle |
muurkha what was the reaction |
| 21:59 |
muurkha |
they recalibrated their worldview |
| 21:59 |
erle |
hehe |
| 21:59 |
erle |
yeah so said groom was kinda not okay with my then-wife and my then-gf being okay with the situation, so |
| 21:59 |
erle |
let's say i did not go to the wedding |
| 21:59 |
erle |
later i met him on some family gathering and asked him if he wanted to talk about it |
| 22:00 |
erle |
and he said no from his POV the issue is done |
| 22:00 |
erle |
so i no longer talk to him at all |
| 22:00 |
erle |
to get back to technical things: i am pretty sure you could do the libglitch thing on arduino, but |
| 22:00 |
erle |
libglitch is python |
| 22:01 |
erle |
not sure if performant |
| 22:01 |
erle |
it's a python implementation of something that relies on a header from an (objective?) C app that ended up on some pastebin |
| 22:01 |
erle |
so i'm pretty sure it's not that hard |
| 22:01 |
erle |
muurkha, i remember your bytebeat page now! |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:03 |
erle |
for everyone else: here is libglitch https://github.com/erlehmann/libglitch and here is the bytebeat page http://canonical.org/~kragen/bytebeat/ |
| 22:03 |
erle |
> At Fábrica de Fallas last weekend, I played a piece (nameless then, now called Crowd, licensed CC-BY) on an Arduino, and it attracted a crowd and some positive attention |
| 22:04 |
erle |
muurkha is the ”been there done that” person in this conversation hehe |
| 22:04 |
muurkha |
haha, yes |
| 22:04 |
muurkha |
I learned recently that people are using Crowd as part of a test suite for NES emulators |
| 22:05 |
muurkha |
they ported it to 6502 assembly! |
| 22:05 |
erle |
neat |
| 22:05 |
erle |
i once got an email that someone used my redo implementation for some neuroimaging pipeline on windows and ran into a problem with path lengths |
| 22:05 |
erle |
that was … unexpected |
| 22:05 |
muurkha |
nice |
| 22:05 |
erle |
well i doubt i fixed it ever |
| 22:05 |
erle |
it is the one thing that i should fix in redo though |
| 22:06 |
muurkha |
it sounds like the kind of thing that's not hard to work around |
| 22:06 |
erle |
i mean, putting everything in a .redo folder at the base of the build hampers composability between different projects |
| 22:06 |
erle |
i mean every other build system seems to get this wrong too |
| 22:06 |
erle |
but |
| 22:06 |
erle |
the correct thing is *probably* to put the info in the same folder as the target |
| 22:06 |
erle |
people hate it though |
| 22:06 |
erle |
like if they have binary and then binary.ctime and binary.md5sum |
| 22:07 |
erle |
and binary.dependencies and binary.dependencies_ne |
| 22:11 |
muurkha |
as the target? |
| 22:12 |
muurkha |
that would make it impossible to have a build subdirectory you can blow away |
| 22:12 |
erle |
wdym |
| 22:13 |
erle |
it's already difficult, so |
| 22:13 |
muurkha |
which is pretty crucial for having multiple build configurations for the same source code. like debug vs. release, or native-code compilation for testing in Linux vs. cross-compilation for deployment to the target on a different arch |
| 22:13 |
erle |
i tell everyone to just use an overlay mount instead of bloating the build system |
| 22:13 |
erle |
you want an out-of-tree build? just overlay mount |
| 22:13 |
muurkha |
oh, I guess an overlay mount would maybe solve the problem |
| 22:13 |
erle |
haha |
| 22:13 |
erle |
you are the *first* person saying that as the first response |
| 22:13 |
erle |
and not ”BUT I DO NOT WANT AN OVERLAY MOUNT YOU HAVE TO IMPLEMENT THIS” |
| 22:14 |
erle |
like usually i have to actually explain that overlay mounts are good |
| 22:14 |
erle |
and they probably already rely on them because dockers |
| 22:14 |
muurkha |
well, I'm not really in a position to dictate to you how to write your software |
| 22:14 |
muurkha |
but yeah before docker I basically never used them |
| 22:14 |
erle |
you never even tried plan9? |
| 22:14 |
muurkha |
and so I think of them as a pretty heavyweight solution |
| 22:14 |
muurkha |
no, I never had hardware it could run on |
| 22:14 |
erle |
are you *sure* |
| 22:15 |
erle |
i suggest to try plan9. it's a … weird … experience that makes you nostalgic for a future that never has been |
| 22:15 |
muurkha |
by the time I learned about it, VESA local-bus video cards were getting pretty thin on the ground |
| 22:15 |
muurkha |
cisco was using it for all their development for a while |
| 22:15 |
muurkha |
and going around buying up all the VLB motherboards they could find |
| 22:16 |
erle |
uh |
| 22:16 |
muurkha |
I did actually have a VLB motherboard but my video card was PCI |
| 22:16 |
erle |
you can just use an old thinkpad though? |
| 22:16 |
muurkha |
so Plan9 didn't support it |
| 22:16 |
muurkha |
maybe that's true now? there was no such thing as an old Thinkpad at the time |
| 22:16 |
erle |
i mean if you have access toone |
| 22:16 |
erle |
oh it could be |
| 22:16 |
muurkha |
and Plan9 stagnated for ten years after that |
| 22:16 |
muurkha |
because it wasn't free software |
| 22:16 |
erle |
yeah, that's plan9s original sin |
| 22:17 |
erle |
i want filesystem namespaces everywhere :( |
| 22:17 |
muurkha |
anyway it's pretty inspirational |
| 22:17 |
erle |
the thing is even though plan9 stagnated, it has these weird nice things |
| 22:17 |
muurkha |
but bind mounts in Linux aren't as ready-to-hand as they are in Plan9 |
| 22:17 |
erle |
i think to do NAT you mount two /net filesystems on top of each other or so? not sure, that sounds like a weird fever-dream |
| 22:18 |
muurkha |
something like that, you mount a server's network interface |
| 22:24 |
erle |
muurkha, i can strongly suggest to look into the rc shell, the standard shell of plan 9 (and i think unix 10) |
| 22:24 |
erle |
it has a bunch of nice improvements over sh |
| 22:24 |
erle |
and the paper on its design is pretty useful if you want to choose any shell |
| 22:26 |
muurkha |
what do you think about es and oil? |
| 22:28 |
erle |
i read the design documents of the oil shell and i think it's similarly well-researched and well-written, but obviously much more ambitious than rc |
| 22:28 |
erle |
i do not know es |
| 22:28 |
erle |
the reason i use rc is because grammar fits in head |
| 22:32 |
muurkha |
es is http://wryun.github.io/es-shell/ |
| 22:32 |
muurkha |
see also https://web.archive.org/web/20140224211945/http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man1/es.1.html |
| 22:32 |
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| 22:33 |
erle |
i use rc as my daily shell |
| 22:33 |
erle |
mainly because of the superior support for redirection |
| 22:33 |
erle |
and bc it has way less footguns than sh (they all got neutered) |
| 22:34 |
erle |
muurkha, thanks, if es is derived from rc i *probably* should look into it even more (when i am less sleepy) |
| 22:34 |
erle |
it is a bit after 00:30 here in my timezone |
| 22:34 |
muurkha |
you might like it |
| 22:40 |
erle |
muurkha, i might, thanks. |
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