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sfan5 |
<wsor4035> hmm, whichever bot does commit messages seems to be down? |
| 08:39 |
sfan5 |
fixed |
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| 09:26 |
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| 09:26 |
Threadripper3995 |
sodom |
| 09:27 |
Threadripper3995 |
anyone interested in alternative voxel engines to minetest? |
| 09:27 |
Threadripper3995 |
or is it hardline minetest |
| 09:30 |
mrkubax10 |
Threadripper3995: isn't minetest good enough? |
| 09:30 |
celeron55 |
the hardline here is probably open source more than minetest itself. but as long as you're talking about either of those nobody's going to stop you |
| 09:37 |
Threadripper3995 |
mrkubax10: i like to shoot the proverbial shit |
| 09:37 |
Threadripper3995 |
I know most people don't like that here but |
| 09:38 |
Threadripper3995 |
I think there is value to be extracted from cross-referencing other projects |
| 09:39 |
Threadripper3995 |
celeron55: what are you working on today? |
| 09:39 |
Threadripper3995 |
did you finish to dozer? |
| 09:39 |
celeron55 |
watching yotuube and fixing my car |
| 09:39 |
Threadripper3995 |
ah yes you like cars |
| 09:39 |
Threadripper3995 |
you like thta game mysummercar then? |
| 09:39 |
celeron55 |
and shitposting on MT discord |
| 09:40 |
Threadripper3995 |
or you just like to do the irl car thing |
| 09:40 |
Threadripper3995 |
you use discord?! |
| 09:40 |
celeron55 |
sometimes more, sometimes less |
| 09:41 |
Threadripper3995 |
i've never seen your name on there |
| 09:41 |
Threadripper3995 |
what kind fo car doy ou have |
| 09:41 |
Threadripper3995 |
and what is the work that you do upon this |
| 09:42 |
celeron55 |
i liked car games when i was young and had time. i'm old now and have to work most of the time |
| 09:42 |
Threadripper3995 |
i like car games too, they are still easily one of the top popular genre, |
| 09:43 |
Threadripper3995 |
what is the dayjob that consumes your daily occupation |
| 09:44 |
celeron55 |
this is the car i need to fix. looks like i've forgot to post about the issues there lately though https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2450 |
| 09:45 |
Threadripper3995 |
yes i saw these posts before somehow |
| 09:46 |
celeron55 |
dunno if i want to talk about the dayjob. those come and go and are there really only for the money |
| 09:46 |
Threadripper3995 |
lol |
| 09:47 |
Threadripper3995 |
nevermind but that is amusing how you put it |
| 09:47 |
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| 09:47 |
Threadripper3995 |
i think you know why I don't want to lower the tone with silly jokes |
| 09:48 |
independent56 |
I'm considering splitting my server into two halves; the creative district and the survival area. I'd like to ensure that no inventory from creative players goes into the survival district nor survival players whilst keeping borders open. Is this possible? |
| 09:48 |
Threadripper3995 |
classic runescale wilderness |
| 09:49 |
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| 09:49 |
Threadripper3995 |
sure its possible |
| 09:49 |
Threadripper3995 |
but what will you do with their inventory? |
| 09:49 |
Threadripper3995 |
there is no banking system |
| 09:49 |
Threadripper3995 |
only chests |
| 09:50 |
Threadripper3995 |
unless you have a rule where the player cannot pass the boundary with a full inventory |
| 09:50 |
Threadripper3995 |
that way you force the player to stash his items before passing |
| 09:50 |
Threadripper3995 |
so you just need to grab player inv and check if its empty or not |
| 09:50 |
Threadripper3995 |
would this be a suitable approach? |
| 09:51 |
Threadripper3995 |
you would also need to be careful people don't teleport past the boundary with inventories |
| 09:51 |
Threadripper3995 |
using home positions, tpr mod, etc |
| 09:51 |
independent56 |
I'm thinking about having a button you press which clears your inventory and the creative priv and vice versa |
| 09:52 |
Threadripper3995 |
no wifi chests |
| 09:52 |
Threadripper3995 |
should work just no wifi chests |
| 09:52 |
independent56 |
Maybe i make the areas mod have some extra flags meaning dropped items and building won't work for people with specific privs |
| 09:53 |
independent56 |
yeah, but then the location of the button might have two players swapping items |
| 09:53 |
independent56 |
"Hey, here are some HV furnaces! I'm going to press the button soon, take them!" |
| 09:54 |
Threadripper3995 |
i think you will achieve this absolutely |
| 09:54 |
Threadripper3995 |
are you worried about the economy being ruined if you make mistakes? |
| 09:57 |
independent56 |
i'm worried about the value of survival falling |
| 09:57 |
independent56 |
I'll see what you can do |
| 09:57 |
independent56 |
But the only succcess i have with minetest Lua is the occassional digilines system |
| 09:58 |
celeron55 |
i think doing that might require augmenting the inventory related code in all mods. there could be a smart way that doesn't require it, but it doesn't come to mind |
| 09:58 |
celeron55 |
listing specific series of actions that you really want to prevent could help to minimize the changes |
| 09:59 |
celeron55 |
probably the problem is if someone takes something from the creative side to the survival side |
| 09:59 |
independent56 |
Yeah |
| 09:59 |
celeron55 |
the other direction isn't as troublesome |
| 10:00 |
independent56 |
So maybe i close the borders using the areas mod; towercrane teleports users back to it when they wander off, so i could use that code to take people back to the creative side on tresspass |
| 10:00 |
independent56 |
So entry needs you to have cleared yourself for survival |
| 10:00 |
independent56 |
And to prevent passes, i'll make some form of buffer zone which can only be entered with a clear inventory. If your inventory even has a single item you'll be kicked out |
| 10:00 |
celeron55 |
maybe just make it so that you're only allowed to pass the border with an empty inventory. and add an area at the border through which one can't reach chests on the other side |
| 10:01 |
celeron55 |
sounds like we came up with the same design |
| 10:01 |
independent56 |
Yeah, it's probably the simplest option |
| 10:02 |
celeron55 |
you could of course make it so that when a player passes from survival to creative, their inventory is automatically copied somewhere and cleared, and when they come back, it's automatically restored |
| 10:02 |
independent56 |
That's a good idea |
| 10:02 |
celeron55 |
but not doing that is not game breaking |
| 10:03 |
celeron55 |
just convenience |
| 10:03 |
celeron55 |
as long as players in the non-buildable border area have empty inventories, there shouldn't be issues |
| 10:03 |
celeron55 |
you'll have to think about teleporters though |
| 10:03 |
celeron55 |
they probably require some code changes |
| 10:04 |
celeron55 |
and trains and other stuff that move players |
| 10:04 |
independent56 |
Just like towercrane in reverse, if a player with the wrong privs enters the survival area, they're sent back |
| 10:04 |
independent56 |
The code might as well de-attach people upon entry |
| 10:06 |
Threadripper3995 |
yeah detatch |
| 10:06 |
Threadripper3995 |
apercys vehicals have inventories |
| 10:07 |
independent56 |
The border stations will require a transfer, obviously |
| 10:07 |
Threadripper3995 |
failing to detatch in that scenario allows smuggling |
| 10:07 |
independent56 |
I don't use cars on the server |
| 10:07 |
independent56 |
Only bikes, trains, and carts ;) |
| 10:07 |
Threadripper3995 |
lol nice, the peddle bikes mod or motorbikes? |
| 10:07 |
independent56 |
The pedalling ones |
| 10:07 |
Threadripper3995 |
some dude did a good remake of the motorbike mod recently |
| 10:08 |
Threadripper3995 |
i helped him identify a texture issue |
| 10:08 |
Threadripper3995 |
and it's flawless now |
| 10:08 |
Threadripper3995 |
I am such a good samaritan |
| 10:10 |
Threadripper3995 |
https://github.com/Extex101/motorbike |
| 10:10 |
Threadripper3995 |
oh crap was he the original author of the first one too? |
| 10:11 |
Threadripper3995 |
woops yeah he re-made his own mod X'D |
| 10:11 |
Threadripper3995 |
i hold a grudge against minetest tbh |
| 10:11 |
Threadripper3995 |
because of tenplus1 |
| 10:11 |
independent56 |
Well, anyways, i've GTG |
| 10:12 |
Threadripper3995 |
i've never gotten over the fact tenplus1 broke my rubber tree's |
| 10:12 |
Threadripper3995 |
all thouse hours I lost |
| 10:12 |
Threadripper3995 |
searching for latex |
| 10:14 |
Threadripper3995 |
you have to respect a man that knows when he's over stayed his purpose |
| 10:15 |
celeron55 |
what other voxel engine were you going to talk about? |
| 10:16 |
Threadripper3995 |
have you seen gabe rundlett's work? |
| 10:16 |
Threadripper3995 |
https://www.youtube.com/@GabeRundlett |
| 10:18 |
Threadripper3995 |
https://discord.com/channels/985017702433316924/985017702433316927/1138855349655441549 |
| 10:18 |
Threadripper3995 |
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lxOlEbBP0l7Nu1SZ-6fHiLwlxaH7QBaPKoTej-tXsqQ/edit#gid=0 |
| 10:19 |
Threadripper3995 |
He is trying to take on MagicaVoxel |
| 10:19 |
Threadripper3995 |
So it's not a minetest clone or directly related in any way really other than in the general voxel asepct. |
| 10:19 |
celeron55 |
doesn't look to have a license of any kind, suspcisious |
| 10:20 |
Threadripper3995 |
he probably wants to make money form it |
| 10:20 |
Threadripper3995 |
also his code is kinda hidden |
| 10:20 |
Threadripper3995 |
https://github.com/GabeRundlett |
| 10:20 |
celeron55 |
that's what i'm looking at |
| 10:20 |
Threadripper3995 |
ah he had his latest code hidden in a rewrite branch |
| 10:20 |
Threadripper3995 |
but seems he's restructured his branches |
| 10:21 |
Threadripper3995 |
he was bragging about his compute shaders |
| 10:21 |
celeron55 |
seems to be at a proof of concept stage |
| 10:22 |
celeron55 |
those have come and gone over the years, we'll see |
| 10:22 |
Threadripper3995 |
yeah he's been working on this for 4 years |
| 10:22 |
Threadripper3995 |
and he has a discord of respectable yet meagre following |
| 10:23 |
Threadripper3995 |
https://github.com/GabeRundlett/gvox_engine/tree/master/src/gpu/voxels |
| 10:23 |
Threadripper3995 |
i guess this is where his latest branch is now |
| 10:23 |
Threadripper3995 |
this is the only voxel engine i've seen so far that heavily uses compute shaders |
| 10:25 |
celeron55 |
these have the opposite problem from MT: they're positioned too far from actual gameplay and end up being only tech demos |
| 10:25 |
Threadripper3995 |
yeah i find this is often a problem that programmers make tech toys |
| 10:26 |
Threadripper3995 |
and seem to disreguard any end-user functionality for the most part |
| 10:26 |
Threadripper3995 |
but its the most interesting project iv'e seen so far, other than teardown |
| 10:27 |
Threadripper3995 |
both teardown and gvox (gabe) use the pallet compression |
| 10:27 |
Threadripper3995 |
palette* |
| 10:27 |
Threadripper3995 |
which i thought was interesting |
| 10:27 |
celeron55 |
teardown is the most succesful game based on a high resolution voxel engine like that, yes. i'm expecting it to stay that way for a long time |
| 10:28 |
Threadripper3995 |
have you played with it much? people do make mods i see, i've played the main game but not the mods yet |
| 10:28 |
Threadripper3995 |
i don't actually like teardown as a game |
| 10:28 |
celeron55 |
i don't think my machine is able to run it |
| 10:28 |
Threadripper3995 |
but I like aspects of its engine |
| 10:29 |
Threadripper3995 |
you should be ok celeron what is your spec? |
| 10:29 |
celeron55 |
and i feel i've seen all it has to offer by watching a couple of videos |
| 10:29 |
Threadripper3995 |
the main reason I don't like teardown is that it's designed to run efficiently by limiting the player |
| 10:30 |
Threadripper3995 |
yes you can destroy anything, but, its small scale |
| 10:30 |
Threadripper3995 |
how can i describe that better |
| 10:30 |
Threadripper3995 |
the game tries to deter you from doing big explosions and things |
| 10:30 |
Threadripper3995 |
and well if you try to indeed there will be a stutters |
| 10:31 |
Threadripper3995 |
i think i can describe it even better |
| 10:31 |
Threadripper3995 |
when i play teardown it feels like I am under the ocean trying to run forwards |
| 10:31 |
celeron55 |
well what they're trying to do is computationally intensive, what can you do |
| 10:32 |
Threadripper3995 |
i know right and thats what makes voxels so interesting |
| 10:33 |
celeron55 |
of course if you scaled those voxels up to MT/MC size, you could have larger effects |
| 10:33 |
Threadripper3995 |
and we'd need textures, which isn't a big issue |
| 10:33 |
Threadripper3995 |
but if you asked me I would say I prefer the small untextured voxels |
| 10:33 |
celeron55 |
when you're doing physics like that the rendering probably isn't the bottleneck no matter how you do it |
| 10:34 |
celeron55 |
(of course counting out any super slow naive solutions) |
| 10:34 |
Threadripper3995 |
lol yes, it's basically red faction tbh when you smash up buildings its the exact same feel |
| 10:35 |
Threadripper3995 |
only i think red faction was very very marginally better |
| 10:35 |
Threadripper3995 |
in the physics department |
| 10:37 |
celeron55 |
i think the problem is, games that are solely based on physics rarely are very interesting, which means using up all your development budget on physics isn't a good idea |
| 10:37 |
celeron55 |
someone will have to commoditize a high-res voxel physics engine in a way that allows a general game developer to use it and build on it, in order for good games based on the tech to exist |
| 10:38 |
celeron55 |
and hardware will have to catch up. it will be indie games, and people expect indie games to run on old hardware |
| 10:38 |
celeron55 |
which means it's years away |
| 10:39 |
celeron55 |
honestly i thought it would be sooner, but doesn't look like it |
| 10:40 |
Threadripper3995 |
yeah the target audience for voxels is rarily high end gamers, it's using old phones, tablets and computer |
| 10:41 |
Threadripper3995 |
and physics are a bit of a one trick poney copout for attention |
| 10:41 |
Threadripper3995 |
its a shame we can efficiently mix two voxel sizes, or can we |
| 10:41 |
Threadripper3995 |
the ability to just fabs() a coordinate to a voxel grid |
| 10:42 |
Threadripper3995 |
that can only be done to one scale |
| 10:42 |
Threadripper3995 |
ah no im taking trash i think |
| 10:42 |
Threadripper3995 |
like how video games have dynamic foliage these days |
| 10:42 |
Threadripper3995 |
i wonder how minetest would look with a similar effect |
| 10:42 |
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| 10:42 |
Threadripper3995 |
but it would be a 16th scale voxel |
| 10:43 |
Threadripper3995 |
of dynamic detailing ontop of the larger voxels |
| 10:43 |
celeron55 |
the reason voxels can be used is that it's a strictly repeated data structure very natively usable on computers. if you mix it up, it isn't a strictly repeated data structure anymore |
| 10:43 |
Threadripper3995 |
yeah there would be complications that takeaway from the efficiency |
| 10:43 |
Threadripper3995 |
ok ok take this right |
| 10:44 |
Threadripper3995 |
habbo hotel |
| 10:44 |
Threadripper3995 |
I can customize my character |
| 10:44 |
celeron55 |
if the dynamic foliage didn't actually exist individually but was just duplicated at render time, then of course it would be performant |
| 10:44 |
Threadripper3995 |
but in minetest i cannot |
| 10:45 |
Threadripper3995 |
unless I request skin add to skindb and server admin update and reboot |
| 10:45 |
Threadripper3995 |
i always feel this aspect of minetest is need improving |
| 10:45 |
celeron55 |
well what can i say, PRs welcome |
| 10:45 |
Threadripper3995 |
haha i have some thoughts |
| 10:46 |
Threadripper3995 |
but i dont think i have a solution |
| 10:46 |
Threadripper3995 |
but |
| 10:47 |
Threadripper3995 |
actually also I cant make minetest pr |
| 10:47 |
celeron55 |
actually i think the features have already been put in to allow making that process smoother |
| 10:47 |
Threadripper3995 |
yes? |
| 10:47 |
celeron55 |
it's the modder's time to start using the features |
| 10:47 |
Threadripper3995 |
yes I suppose this could be done in LUA |
| 10:48 |
Threadripper3995 |
i am happy to work within minetest lua but no modify the C++ client unless it's a vital bug |
| 10:57 |
Threadripper3995 |
have anyone play Avorion? |
| 11:15 |
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| 12:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] rollerozxa -> minetest/minetest: Make content tab use real coordinates and minor cleanups (#13719) e4bedc7 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e4bedc7ea8265b177d72285127877a017ef5a154 (2023-08-13T12:28:16Z) |
| 12:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] grorp -> minetest/minetest: ContentDB GUI: Load package list asynchronously (#13551) 526c5f2 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/526c5f2348f19eaaa67923530e8cba77b2747e37 (2023-08-13T12:28:24Z) |
| 12:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Fix hypertext in the mainmenu (#13731) 137e4ce https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/137e4ce8667af7eb1edefd9754f758e430551a40 (2023-08-13T12:28:33Z) |
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| 16:03 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> Anyone available to playtest quikbild? |
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gera |
mistere_123 whats this |
| 16:58 |
gera |
i can play |
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gera |
ok I installed it setup an arena, and it requests me to build a word I see |
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MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> gera, you still around? |
| 17:53 |
gera |
yes |
| 17:54 |
MTDiscord |
<mistere_123> sorry, I meant on a server. Its called A.E.S. test server |
| 17:54 |
gera |
ok ill join in 10 mnutes |
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