Time Nick Message 08:38 sfan5 hmm, whichever bot does commit messages seems to be down? 08:39 sfan5 fixed 09:26 Threadripper3995 sodom 09:27 Threadripper3995 anyone interested in alternative voxel engines to minetest? 09:27 Threadripper3995 or is it hardline minetest 09:30 mrkubax10 Threadripper3995: isn't minetest good enough? 09:30 celeron55 the hardline here is probably open source more than minetest itself. but as long as you're talking about either of those nobody's going to stop you 09:37 Threadripper3995 mrkubax10: i like to shoot the proverbial shit 09:37 Threadripper3995 I know most people don't like that here but 09:38 Threadripper3995 I think there is value to be extracted from cross-referencing other projects 09:39 Threadripper3995 celeron55: what are you working on today? 09:39 Threadripper3995 did you finish to dozer? 09:39 celeron55 watching yotuube and fixing my car 09:39 Threadripper3995 ah yes you like cars 09:39 Threadripper3995 you like thta game mysummercar then? 09:39 celeron55 and shitposting on MT discord 09:40 Threadripper3995 or you just like to do the irl car thing 09:40 Threadripper3995 you use discord?! 09:40 celeron55 sometimes more, sometimes less 09:41 Threadripper3995 i've never seen your name on there 09:41 Threadripper3995 what kind fo car doy ou have 09:41 Threadripper3995 and what is the work that you do upon this 09:42 celeron55 i liked car games when i was young and had time. i'm old now and have to work most of the time 09:42 Threadripper3995 i like car games too, they are still easily one of the top popular genre, 09:43 Threadripper3995 what is the dayjob that consumes your daily occupation 09:44 celeron55 this is the car i need to fix. looks like i've forgot to post about the issues there lately though https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2450 09:45 Threadripper3995 yes i saw these posts before somehow 09:46 celeron55 dunno if i want to talk about the dayjob. those come and go and are there really only for the money 09:46 Threadripper3995 lol 09:47 Threadripper3995 nevermind but that is amusing how you put it 09:47 Threadripper3995 i think you know why I don't want to lower the tone with silly jokes 09:48 independent56 I'm considering splitting my server into two halves; the creative district and the survival area. I'd like to ensure that no inventory from creative players goes into the survival district nor survival players whilst keeping borders open. Is this possible? 09:48 Threadripper3995 classic runescale wilderness 09:49 Threadripper3995 sure its possible 09:49 Threadripper3995 but what will you do with their inventory? 09:49 Threadripper3995 there is no banking system 09:49 Threadripper3995 only chests 09:50 Threadripper3995 unless you have a rule where the player cannot pass the boundary with a full inventory 09:50 Threadripper3995 that way you force the player to stash his items before passing 09:50 Threadripper3995 so you just need to grab player inv and check if its empty or not 09:50 Threadripper3995 would this be a suitable approach? 09:51 Threadripper3995 you would also need to be careful people don't teleport past the boundary with inventories 09:51 Threadripper3995 using home positions, tpr mod, etc 09:51 independent56 I'm thinking about having a button you press which clears your inventory and the creative priv and vice versa 09:52 Threadripper3995 no wifi chests 09:52 Threadripper3995 should work just no wifi chests 09:52 independent56 Maybe i make the areas mod have some extra flags meaning dropped items and building won't work for people with specific privs 09:53 independent56 yeah, but then the location of the button might have two players swapping items 09:53 independent56 "Hey, here are some HV furnaces! I'm going to press the button soon, take them!" 09:54 Threadripper3995 i think you will achieve this absolutely 09:54 Threadripper3995 are you worried about the economy being ruined if you make mistakes? 09:57 independent56 i'm worried about the value of survival falling 09:57 independent56 I'll see what you can do 09:57 independent56 But the only succcess i have with minetest Lua is the occassional digilines system 09:58 celeron55 i think doing that might require augmenting the inventory related code in all mods. there could be a smart way that doesn't require it, but it doesn't come to mind 09:58 celeron55 listing specific series of actions that you really want to prevent could help to minimize the changes 09:59 celeron55 probably the problem is if someone takes something from the creative side to the survival side 09:59 independent56 Yeah 09:59 celeron55 the other direction isn't as troublesome 10:00 independent56 So maybe i close the borders using the areas mod; towercrane teleports users back to it when they wander off, so i could use that code to take people back to the creative side on tresspass 10:00 independent56 So entry needs you to have cleared yourself for survival 10:00 independent56 And to prevent passes, i'll make some form of buffer zone which can only be entered with a clear inventory. If your inventory even has a single item you'll be kicked out 10:00 celeron55 maybe just make it so that you're only allowed to pass the border with an empty inventory. and add an area at the border through which one can't reach chests on the other side 10:01 celeron55 sounds like we came up with the same design 10:01 independent56 Yeah, it's probably the simplest option 10:02 celeron55 you could of course make it so that when a player passes from survival to creative, their inventory is automatically copied somewhere and cleared, and when they come back, it's automatically restored 10:02 independent56 That's a good idea 10:02 celeron55 but not doing that is not game breaking 10:03 celeron55 just convenience 10:03 celeron55 as long as players in the non-buildable border area have empty inventories, there shouldn't be issues 10:03 celeron55 you'll have to think about teleporters though 10:03 celeron55 they probably require some code changes 10:04 celeron55 and trains and other stuff that move players 10:04 independent56 Just like towercrane in reverse, if a player with the wrong privs enters the survival area, they're sent back 10:04 independent56 The code might as well de-attach people upon entry 10:06 Threadripper3995 yeah detatch 10:06 Threadripper3995 apercys vehicals have inventories 10:07 independent56 The border stations will require a transfer, obviously 10:07 Threadripper3995 failing to detatch in that scenario allows smuggling 10:07 independent56 I don't use cars on the server 10:07 independent56 Only bikes, trains, and carts ;) 10:07 Threadripper3995 lol nice, the peddle bikes mod or motorbikes? 10:07 independent56 The pedalling ones 10:07 Threadripper3995 some dude did a good remake of the motorbike mod recently 10:08 Threadripper3995 i helped him identify a texture issue 10:08 Threadripper3995 and it's flawless now 10:08 Threadripper3995 I am such a good samaritan 10:10 Threadripper3995 https://github.com/Extex101/motorbike 10:10 Threadripper3995 oh crap was he the original author of the first one too? 10:11 Threadripper3995 woops yeah he re-made his own mod X'D 10:11 Threadripper3995 i hold a grudge against minetest tbh 10:11 Threadripper3995 because of tenplus1 10:11 independent56 Well, anyways, i've GTG 10:12 Threadripper3995 i've never gotten over the fact tenplus1 broke my rubber tree's 10:12 Threadripper3995 all thouse hours I lost 10:12 Threadripper3995 searching for latex 10:14 Threadripper3995 you have to respect a man that knows when he's over stayed his purpose 10:15 celeron55 what other voxel engine were you going to talk about? 10:16 Threadripper3995 have you seen gabe rundlett's work? 10:16 Threadripper3995 https://www.youtube.com/@GabeRundlett 10:18 Threadripper3995 https://discord.com/channels/985017702433316924/985017702433316927/1138855349655441549 10:18 Threadripper3995 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lxOlEbBP0l7Nu1SZ-6fHiLwlxaH7QBaPKoTej-tXsqQ/edit#gid=0 10:19 Threadripper3995 He is trying to take on MagicaVoxel 10:19 Threadripper3995 So it's not a minetest clone or directly related in any way really other than in the general voxel asepct. 10:19 celeron55 doesn't look to have a license of any kind, suspcisious 10:20 Threadripper3995 he probably wants to make money form it 10:20 Threadripper3995 also his code is kinda hidden 10:20 Threadripper3995 https://github.com/GabeRundlett 10:20 celeron55 that's what i'm looking at 10:20 Threadripper3995 ah he had his latest code hidden in a rewrite branch 10:20 Threadripper3995 but seems he's restructured his branches 10:21 Threadripper3995 he was bragging about his compute shaders 10:21 celeron55 seems to be at a proof of concept stage 10:22 celeron55 those have come and gone over the years, we'll see 10:22 Threadripper3995 yeah he's been working on this for 4 years 10:22 Threadripper3995 and he has a discord of respectable yet meagre following 10:23 Threadripper3995 https://github.com/GabeRundlett/gvox_engine/tree/master/src/gpu/voxels 10:23 Threadripper3995 i guess this is where his latest branch is now 10:23 Threadripper3995 this is the only voxel engine i've seen so far that heavily uses compute shaders 10:25 celeron55 these have the opposite problem from MT: they're positioned too far from actual gameplay and end up being only tech demos 10:25 Threadripper3995 yeah i find this is often a problem that programmers make tech toys 10:26 Threadripper3995 and seem to disreguard any end-user functionality for the most part 10:26 Threadripper3995 but its the most interesting project iv'e seen so far, other than teardown 10:27 Threadripper3995 both teardown and gvox (gabe) use the pallet compression 10:27 Threadripper3995 palette* 10:27 Threadripper3995 which i thought was interesting 10:27 celeron55 teardown is the most succesful game based on a high resolution voxel engine like that, yes. i'm expecting it to stay that way for a long time 10:28 Threadripper3995 have you played with it much? people do make mods i see, i've played the main game but not the mods yet 10:28 Threadripper3995 i don't actually like teardown as a game 10:28 celeron55 i don't think my machine is able to run it 10:28 Threadripper3995 but I like aspects of its engine 10:29 Threadripper3995 you should be ok celeron what is your spec? 10:29 celeron55 and i feel i've seen all it has to offer by watching a couple of videos 10:29 Threadripper3995 the main reason I don't like teardown is that it's designed to run efficiently by limiting the player 10:30 Threadripper3995 yes you can destroy anything, but, its small scale 10:30 Threadripper3995 how can i describe that better 10:30 Threadripper3995 the game tries to deter you from doing big explosions and things 10:30 Threadripper3995 and well if you try to indeed there will be a stutters 10:31 Threadripper3995 i think i can describe it even better 10:31 Threadripper3995 when i play teardown it feels like I am under the ocean trying to run forwards 10:31 celeron55 well what they're trying to do is computationally intensive, what can you do 10:32 Threadripper3995 i know right and thats what makes voxels so interesting 10:33 celeron55 of course if you scaled those voxels up to MT/MC size, you could have larger effects 10:33 Threadripper3995 and we'd need textures, which isn't a big issue 10:33 Threadripper3995 but if you asked me I would say I prefer the small untextured voxels 10:33 celeron55 when you're doing physics like that the rendering probably isn't the bottleneck no matter how you do it 10:34 celeron55 (of course counting out any super slow naive solutions) 10:34 Threadripper3995 lol yes, it's basically red faction tbh when you smash up buildings its the exact same feel 10:35 Threadripper3995 only i think red faction was very very marginally better 10:35 Threadripper3995 in the physics department 10:37 celeron55 i think the problem is, games that are solely based on physics rarely are very interesting, which means using up all your development budget on physics isn't a good idea 10:37 celeron55 someone will have to commoditize a high-res voxel physics engine in a way that allows a general game developer to use it and build on it, in order for good games based on the tech to exist 10:38 celeron55 and hardware will have to catch up. it will be indie games, and people expect indie games to run on old hardware 10:38 celeron55 which means it's years away 10:39 celeron55 honestly i thought it would be sooner, but doesn't look like it 10:40 Threadripper3995 yeah the target audience for voxels is rarily high end gamers, it's using old phones, tablets and computer 10:41 Threadripper3995 and physics are a bit of a one trick poney copout for attention 10:41 Threadripper3995 its a shame we can efficiently mix two voxel sizes, or can we 10:41 Threadripper3995 the ability to just fabs() a coordinate to a voxel grid 10:42 Threadripper3995 that can only be done to one scale 10:42 Threadripper3995 ah no im taking trash i think 10:42 Threadripper3995 like how video games have dynamic foliage these days 10:42 Threadripper3995 i wonder how minetest would look with a similar effect 10:42 Threadripper3995 but it would be a 16th scale voxel 10:43 Threadripper3995 of dynamic detailing ontop of the larger voxels 10:43 celeron55 the reason voxels can be used is that it's a strictly repeated data structure very natively usable on computers. if you mix it up, it isn't a strictly repeated data structure anymore 10:43 Threadripper3995 yeah there would be complications that takeaway from the efficiency 10:43 Threadripper3995 ok ok take this right 10:44 Threadripper3995 habbo hotel 10:44 Threadripper3995 I can customize my character 10:44 celeron55 if the dynamic foliage didn't actually exist individually but was just duplicated at render time, then of course it would be performant 10:44 Threadripper3995 but in minetest i cannot 10:45 Threadripper3995 unless I request skin add to skindb and server admin update and reboot 10:45 Threadripper3995 i always feel this aspect of minetest is need improving 10:45 celeron55 well what can i say, PRs welcome 10:45 Threadripper3995 haha i have some thoughts 10:46 Threadripper3995 but i dont think i have a solution 10:46 Threadripper3995 but 10:47 Threadripper3995 actually also I cant make minetest pr 10:47 celeron55 actually i think the features have already been put in to allow making that process smoother 10:47 Threadripper3995 yes? 10:47 celeron55 it's the modder's time to start using the features 10:47 Threadripper3995 yes I suppose this could be done in LUA 10:48 Threadripper3995 i am happy to work within minetest lua but no modify the C++ client unless it's a vital bug 10:57 Threadripper3995 have anyone play Avorion? 12:30 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rollerozxa -> 03minetest/minetest: Make content tab use real coordinates and minor cleanups (#13719) 13e4bedc7 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e4bedc7ea8265b177d72285127877a017ef5a154 (152023-08-13T12:28:16Z) 12:30 MinetestBot 02[git] 04grorp -> 03minetest/minetest: ContentDB GUI: Load package list asynchronously (#13551) 13526c5f2 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/526c5f2348f19eaaa67923530e8cba77b2747e37 (152023-08-13T12:28:24Z) 12:30 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix hypertext in the mainmenu (#13731) 13137e4ce https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/137e4ce8667af7eb1edefd9754f758e430551a40 (152023-08-13T12:28:33Z) 16:03 MTDiscord Anyone available to playtest quikbild? 16:58 gera mistere_123 whats this 16:58 gera i can play 17:17 gera ok I installed it setup an arena, and it requests me to build a word I see 17:53 MTDiscord gera, you still around? 17:53 gera yes 17:54 MTDiscord sorry, I meant on a server. Its called A.E.S. test server 17:54 gera ok ill join in 10 mnutes