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| 01:38 |
Blockhead256[m] |
lava casting is a controversial but valid artform :) |
| 01:39 |
muurkha |
what's controversial about it? |
| 01:41 |
Blockhead256[m] |
it's considered ugly and a form of griefing in a lot of places |
| 01:41 |
Blockhead256[m] |
it's kind of like grafitti in a sense: not desired by most people who see it, bad to put where it's not wanted, but has its own merits |
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muurkha |
huh, I had no idea |
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| 11:07 |
imi |
hi, is there a way to bind a function to a dropped item despawning from the ground? |
| 11:13 |
Blockhead256[m] |
there is no callback for that; when a dropped item is past its age, it will delete itself in its on_step. So you would need to override the on_step of __builtin:item |
| 11:13 |
Blockhead256[m] |
for an example of a mod that overrides dropped item behaviour, see Item features/builtin_item https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3188 |
| 11:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> When an item is about to despawn, tehre's minetest.registered_entities["__builtin:item"].get_staticdata(self) |
| 11:16 |
Blockhead256[m] |
the source code for dropped items is here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/5.6.1/builtin/game/item_entity.lua |
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| 16:04 |
Guest54 |
AncientMariner the texture compression instructions in your game contain “optipng -o7 -zm1-9 -nc -clobber *.png” – this is missing the most important bug, people putting several kilobyte of exif data in their PNGs. i suggest to add ”-strip all” to tthat invocation. |
| 16:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> For image recompression, I actually recommend running them through every tool you can find (e.g. optipng, advpng, and ect), in series, keeping the result at each step that reduces its size. Some tools work better on some inputs than others, and you can cache already-optimized results so you only have to batch-run this stuff every so often when you've got new textures. |
| 16:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't exactly have it as a pre-commit hook, but I do run this process basically before each NodeCore commit. It can add up to quite a difference... |
| 16:19 |
Guest54 |
do you use a texture atlas? |
| 16:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> No |
| 16:31 |
Guest54 |
Warr1024 so how big are your textures usually? 16×16? |
| 16:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Generally yes |
| 16:38 |
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| 17:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> "i suggest to do the same for anything in nodecore" from #-dev ... haha, I don't even know how to do that. |
| 17:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I sorta doubt though that there's any way I can store images in item meta that's more efficient than just letting MT's media handler deal with it... |
| 17:28 |
Guest54 |
Warr1024 do you have paintings or so? |
| 17:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> No |
| 17:29 |
Guest54 |
well the case i have are *generated* textures. a world download will not have them. |
| 17:29 |
Guest54 |
https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/xmaps/src/branch/master/init.lua#L424 |
| 17:29 |
Guest54 |
uh, this may be, actually, a thing i need to fix in mineclone2 |
| 17:30 |
Guest54 |
i thought i had fixed it, but it might not be merged |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The only case of generated textures I know of in the NodeCore ecosystem would probably be @kimapr (they/*)'s paint mod. I'm not sure what that does as far as optimization goes ... though I also suspect that the media transfer aspects of it are probably not the most costly. |
| 17:31 |
Guest54 |
i'm looking into it |
| 17:31 |
Guest54 |
but this is not about optimization, it's about world dls working (and making it a bit easier to modify the texture later on) |
| 17:32 |
Guest54 |
i think it … puzzles together a painting using texmods, i.e. [combine |
| 17:33 |
Guest54 |
minetest.register_entity(modname..":paintent",{ -- PAIN TENT |
| 17:33 |
Guest54 |
hahahaha |
| 17:33 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> very yes |
| 17:34 |
Kimapr |
i could probably use the png texmod here, would be more efficient |
| 17:34 |
Guest54 |
you could probably use tga_encoder, would be more efficient lol |
| 17:34 |
Guest54 |
how big are your textures? |
| 17:34 |
Kimapr |
dynamic media? |
| 17:34 |
Guest54 |
like your paintings |
| 17:34 |
Kimapr |
8x8 per node face |
| 17:34 |
Guest54 |
then i suggest to just leave it as it is |
| 17:35 |
Guest54 |
it's not worth the hassle to deal with dynamic media |
| 17:35 |
Kimapr |
that is the most likely thing i'd do |
| 17:35 |
Kimapr |
still [png would be more efficient that the [combine abomination i have |
| 17:36 |
Guest54 |
less backwards compatible. also minetest.encode_png is a bad joke. |
| 17:36 |
Guest54 |
regarding your combine thing – if it is crazy, but it works, it is not too crazy |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I don't know if it's fair to say that encode_png is really a "bad joke", but I would definitely recommend reading the room carefully before opening with it at open mic night at the comedy club. |
| 17:42 |
Guest54 |
Warr1024 throw the devtest checkerboard into optipng and see it become 1/20 of its size. for added insult, convert the same thing to tga, gzip it, the result is 1/30. |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> somehow it feels like I've heard this conversation about encode_png before... |
| 17:43 |
Guest54 |
well, i have said it since the beginning that to get good performance for png you need to use prefilters |
| 17:43 |
Guest54 |
other people have explained it better http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/book/chapter09.html |
| 17:44 |
Guest54 |
> Filtering is a method of reversibly transforming the image data so that the main compression engine can operate more efficiently. As a simple example, consider a sequence of bytes increasing uniformly from 1 to 255. Since there is no repetition in the sequence, it compresses either very poorly or not at all. |
| 17:44 |
Guest54 |
if you instead prefilter it to represent the difference between values, it's very compressible |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> usual erle spam |
| 17:46 |
Guest54 |
it won't matter with an 8×8 image anyway |
| 17:46 |
Guest54 |
except if you like to make it 20 times the size :P |
| 17:48 |
Guest54 |
i mean it's obvious if you read that text why optipng takes ages for even small images |
| 17:48 |
Guest54 |
imagine having a palette image, you might want to reorder the palette entries to get better compression after prefiltering the bytes |
| 17:51 |
Guest54 |
this is also a funny thing, glitching PNGs with prefilters https://ucnv.github.io/pnglitch/ |
| 17:53 |
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| 17:53 |
Guest54 |
here is more https://lo.calho.st/posts/image-glitching/ |
| 17:53 |
Guest54 |
proller you did the large map thing, right? |
| 17:53 |
Guest54 |
how did you make it backwards compatible? |
| 17:53 |
Guest54 |
like can a server have large map and the client just does not get a large map? |
| 17:54 |
Guest54 |
i mean, if it's compatible with existing minetest you can just start hosting a big server as a test ground |
| 17:54 |
Guest54 |
i am pretty sure you'll find a bunch of issues regarding mods, for example |
| 17:58 |
proller |
old client should not recieve anything with 31000+ coords |
| 17:58 |
Guest54 |
and that works, without recompile? |
| 17:58 |
proller |
but no problem with floats |
| 17:59 |
Guest54 |
i must say that you are mistaken about 31000 probably |
| 17:59 |
Guest54 |
old clients can indeed handle terrain that is a bit more out |
| 17:59 |
proller |
join server fm: Climbing to infinity 2 (32bit infinity map) |
| 18:00 |
Guest54 |
i think the only thing you need to make sure is that there is a shell of ignore mapblocks |
| 18:01 |
proller |
skipping sending better than ignores |
| 18:01 |
Guest54 |
well ignore is just “unloaded on the client” |
| 18:01 |
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| 18:02 |
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| 18:03 |
Guest54 |
proller i am not exactly sure, but you could try sending old clients stuff up to ± 32500, that should leave a comfortable shell around the map if i am not mistaken |
| 18:04 |
Guest54 |
what mapgen is that anyways? |
| 18:04 |
proller |
yes, but now anything is sended and your old cliend will crash when trying make mesh near 32768 |
| 18:05 |
Guest54 |
just substract 2 mapblocks from that and you should be save lol |
| 18:05 |
Guest54 |
safe |
| 18:05 |
proller |
yep |
| 18:06 |
Guest54 |
i teleported to 0,-32000,0 and there was water |
| 18:06 |
proller |
its math mapen, removed from mt many years ago |
| 18:06 |
Guest54 |
where is the top |
| 18:06 |
Guest54 |
i go to high elevation and just start falling |
| 18:07 |
proller |
https://freeminer.setun.net/map.circles/map-x3-2018-10-02-14-06.png |
| 18:07 |
proller |
its very sparse |
| 18:08 |
Guest54 |
at -100,1000,50 there is a sky island with a horse on top |
| 18:09 |
Guest54 |
proller where can i find that structure? |
| 18:10 |
Guest54 |
give coords plox |
| 18:10 |
proller |
and very big, this structure radius 10-20 milions block, and now you can explore ! |
| 18:10 |
proller |
better to start from 0,0,0 |
| 18:10 |
proller |
and look up |
| 18:11 |
Guest54 |
wtf |
| 18:12 |
Guest54 |
have you ever played on anarchy servers? |
| 18:12 |
Guest54 |
proller btw did you see the lavacasting option i made? |
| 18:12 |
Guest54 |
if you make it so that lower visc fluid drows slower, you can make walls nicely https://mister-muffin.de/p/u3-K.png |
| 18:13 |
Guest54 |
i thought about it and i have to say, if you can spill lava all around making it harden is not the biggest issue |
| 18:13 |
Guest54 |
everything will be on fire or covered in lava anyway |
| 18:13 |
proller |
my servers have much better liquids than other ;) |
| 18:13 |
proller |
and lava is not problem |
| 18:14 |
Guest54 |
then i suggest you add that patch and enjoy your lavacasts :D |
| 18:14 |
Guest54 |
it's probably dropping too slow though |
| 18:14 |
Guest54 |
not sure |
| 18:14 |
Guest54 |
took me a while to figure out how fluids work |
| 18:16 |
Guest54 |
i like this map |
| 18:16 |
Guest54 |
it's so random |
| 18:17 |
Guest54 |
though it seems the server is under load |
| 18:17 |
Guest54 |
i teleported and do not start falling, which probably means i am not getting sent a mapblock |
| 18:18 |
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| 18:19 |
proller |
this liquids works on not mt code, and they almost perfect ;) |
| 18:19 |
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| 18:19 |
Guest54 |
proller can you make downflow of viscous fluids less fast then? |
| 18:19 |
Guest54 |
lavacasting is nice |
| 18:20 |
Guest54 |
to build huge walls for a castle for example |
| 18:20 |
Guest54 |
or huge triangles (you make stairs, stand on top, first use lava, then water) |
| 18:21 |
proller |
this liquds have finite volume, you cant make walls with them (as in real life) |
| 18:21 |
Guest54 |
damn |
| 18:21 |
Guest54 |
minetest is just like real life, where i routinely put 1m³ of dirt in my hands |
| 18:22 |
Guest54 |
and chop down trees without any tools |
| 18:22 |
Guest54 |
i think on april 1st chopping down trees with bare hands should just hurt the player hehe |
| 18:23 |
Guest54 |
or just turn the entire game into exile mechanics :D |
| 18:34 |
proller |
this is other liquids mechanics without water/lava pillars and with seasonal snow/rain |
| 18:34 |
Guest54 |
i noticed that there was water without an apparent source |
| 18:34 |
Guest54 |
regarding source, where is the code lebowski |
| 18:35 |
proller |
it was removed from mt many years ago 8) |
| 18:36 |
Guest54 |
where is the code you funny person |
| 18:36 |
Guest54 |
pls link |
| 18:36 |
Guest54 |
i want to see different fluid |
| 18:37 |
Guest54 |
gib |
| 18:37 |
Guest54 |
i mean you must have compiled that server from something |
| 18:38 |
proller |
ok, https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/blob/master/src/fm_liquid.cpp#L99 |
| 18:39 |
Guest54 |
ok cool thx |
| 18:40 |
Guest54 |
ohh that's where the melting water comes from |
| 18:40 |
Guest54 |
neat |
| 18:41 |
proller |
for full dive use creative mode and set some spring:water_compressed spring:lava_compressed spring:dirt_compressed |
| 18:41 |
proller |
yes, dirt is liquid too |
| 18:41 |
Guest54 |
i supposed its hard to build a house in your world lol |
| 18:41 |
Guest54 |
noob houses out of dirt, just flowing away |
| 18:42 |
Guest54 |
next up: players are liquid too |
| 18:42 |
Guest54 |
amoebatest |
| 18:42 |
proller |
you can use dry dirt |
| 18:42 |
proller |
but when next rain coming... |
| 18:42 |
Guest54 |
cute liquid flow |
| 18:42 |
proller |
yep |
| 18:42 |
Guest54 |
i had expected something more … crude |
| 18:43 |
Guest54 |
you know the liquid model in dwarf fortress? |
| 18:43 |
proller |
my favorite is houses from ice |
| 18:43 |
Guest54 |
https://www.dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Pressure |
| 18:43 |
Guest54 |
> When a liquid is moved (or created) with pressure, it attempts to locate the nearest tile on the same Z-level as its destination tile (for falling water, this is 1 Z-level beneath its original location) by moving north, south, east, west, down, or up. As it tries to locate an appropriate destination, the liquid will first only try to move |
| 18:43 |
Guest54 |
sideways and downward - only when this fails will it attempt to move upward. |
| 18:44 |
Guest54 |
proller can your liquid flow model do u-bends? |
| 18:44 |
proller |
Sokomine, i remember it was your ice castle on road server 8-9 years ago? ;) |
| 18:45 |
proller |
Guest54, yes, should enable pressure feature |
| 18:45 |
Guest54 |
imagine pressure in a huge lava chamber in a volcano haha |
| 18:46 |
proller |
liquid_pressure=1 |
| 18:46 |
Guest54 |
if you dig into it from the side, does it immediately pop out at max speed? |
| 18:46 |
Guest54 |
can you drain the ocean into a cave system? that's always the best test for finite water hehe |
| 18:46 |
proller |
it limited by liquid levels store, max 64 or 32 |
| 18:47 |
proller |
yes, oceans to caves can be drain, BUT it can be adjusted |
| 18:48 |
proller |
most of water disappeared from surface, not very playable |
| 18:49 |
Guest54 |
what do you mean |
| 18:49 |
proller |
to prevent this 0 level of water is self regenerating (slowly) |
| 18:50 |
Guest54 |
you mean stuff stays wet? |
| 18:51 |
proller |
ocean beds have too many caves |
| 18:51 |
Guest54 |
obv you need to literally flood-fill those |
| 18:52 |
proller |
yes, its liquid_fast_flood setting ;) |
| 18:53 |
proller |
you can make world with constant volume of liquids (but needto disable evaporation and snow-rain) |
| 18:54 |
proller |
or playable (by default) |
| 19:01 |
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| 23:30 |
Sokomine |
proller: i played on the road server soem years ago. but i don't remember exactly what i had build there. do you have a screenshot at hand? |
| 23:33 |
proller |
no screenshots, but server still alive |
| 23:34 |
proller |
i just remember you complained about your melted building |
| 23:51 |
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