| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
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| 00:10 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> also, I don't think gyros are implemented |
| 00:13 |
Desour |
yes, but with gyros it would work |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
MC has console ports, it's possible to make it playable using a controller |
| 00:16 |
rubenwardy |
the main problem is the GUI, without a good design and focus support it's painful |
| 00:17 |
Desour |
what do you mean with focus support? |
| 00:20 |
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| 00:29 |
rubenwardy |
GUI element focus. Rather than moving a cursor, you should be able to press up/right/down/left to change the focused element |
| 00:30 |
rubenwardy |
Irrlicht has 1d focus support, you'll want 2d focus with a gamepad |
| 00:31 |
rubenwardy |
It's decent when using a steam deck, steam controller, or DS4/5 - they come with a touchpad which gives you 1:1 cursor control |
| 00:35 |
Desour |
I see |
| 00:36 |
Desour |
we could also maybe add a cursor movable by a joystick that snaps to gui elements |
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Blockhead256[m] |
my understanding of large schematics' adjacent, ungenerated blocks was that those were filled with CONTENT_IGNORE rather than air. Similar, but not the same. |
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bogroll1234 |
My server is up : afs-minetest.duckdns.org:30000 |
| 06:42 |
bogroll1234 |
My server is now in the serverlist |
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| 09:26 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest_game: Fix syntax errors in bones.sv.tr 8dee348 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/8dee348d975e01490627d0cee482b8f5ae684ae8 (2023-03-14T09:25:37Z) |
| 09:32 |
Guest15 |
hello there |
| 09:38 |
Guest15 |
guest guestlohh 15 |
| 11:44 |
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| 16:02 |
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| 16:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> alright so |
| 16:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> let's imply that there exists a nsfw server with nsfw mechanics |
| 16:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> and children play on it for some reason |
| 16:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> would it be reasonable to remove it from the server list |
| 16:14 |
celeron55_ |
does it ask the player's age before letting them to play? |
| 16:14 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it says "18+" in the server description but there is no other age verification whatsoever |
| 16:14 |
celeron55_ |
if it doesn't, then it's kind of asking for a ban |
| 16:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> good |
| 16:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> because one exists |
| 16:15 |
celeron55_ |
i won't dictate this though |
| 16:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> it's up to sfan5 to decide right? |
| 16:15 |
celeron55_ |
but that's my opinion on how that should work |
| 16:16 |
celeron55_ |
also there's the question, how do you define "nsfw". sex and gore? or what? |
| 16:19 |
celeron55_ |
i guess drugs and alcohol could also be such a category of things |
| 16:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> it's erotic roleplay |
| 16:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> with a mod that makes the roleplay "richer' |
| 16:26 |
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| 16:28 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> erotic furry vore roleplay, to be more exact... >_> |
| 16:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> the mod enables the interactions to be "more realistic" |
| 16:32 |
celeron55_ |
well, i can see how it's gotten the kids interested |
| 16:34 |
DeepThgt |
.... my curiosity is overwhelming my common sense |
| 16:34 |
DeepThgt |
what server is this |
| 16:34 |
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| 16:35 |
potatoxel[m] |
:o |
| 16:36 |
daxfold |
just search furry vore its the only one there |
| 16:36 |
DeepThgt |
ya im gonna regret this |
| 16:37 |
celeron55_ |
:D |
| 16:37 |
celeron55_ |
then again it could be better than sex ed in some countries |
| 16:37 |
potatoxel[m] |
hm |
| 16:37 |
daxfold |
well |
| 16:37 |
daxfold |
its more practical than that |
| 16:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> i don't think it has any educational value |
| 16:37 |
DeepThgt |
well, its what it said on the box i guess |
| 16:38 |
celeron55_ |
does anyone know the admin? |
| 16:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> nope, only that their username is "timmy" |
| 16:39 |
daxfold |
its a creative mode server so there will be many buildings and other things... |
| 16:39 |
daxfold |
not so good drawing |
| 16:40 |
DeepThgt |
im amused by the "take the ipads away" voiceover |
| 16:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> the "tools" that cause the interactions are really weird |
| 16:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> but it seems that the most active players seem to be under 18 |
| 16:44 |
Blockhead256[m] |
sounds like a government department bust waiting to happen |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Blockhead: I've looked into the issue. It appears the model contains static vertices (vertices which are not affected by any bones). I'm not sure how to represent this in glTF - if it can be represented at all. |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> At some point the time may come where we need tools to moderate the serverlist. Perhaps the solution would be running two serverlists: a curated one where you apply for inclusion using content database, and an open one where anyone can be included. The uncurated one gets disabled on android and other stores |
| 16:47 |
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| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> and everything else |
| 16:48 |
Blockhead256[m] |
luatic: oh appguru, I didn't realise you were luatic... |
| 16:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> but you can't expect people who make forks to use the curated one by default |
| 16:48 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> thats not our problem |
| 16:49 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> yeah forks are very much not our problem, they can do whatever they want |
| 16:49 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> We would need to allow using multiple serverlists at once. |
| 16:49 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> anyways yes a curated serverlist sounds like a neat idea |
| 16:50 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Should I make an issue? |
| 16:50 |
potatoxel[m] |
flamore this can already happen lol |
| 16:51 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> A curated serverlist could (eventually) support server screenshots, ratings, and more |
| 16:51 |
daxfold |
new feature is born... kinda |
| 16:52 |
daxfold |
not until someone actually implements it |
| 16:52 |
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| 16:52 |
daxfold |
not that i could |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> implements & hosts it |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> curation means you need curators and a service for them to curate |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> err, let's skip the server ratings |
| 16:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> we'd basically have to reimplement part of what CDB does (the review system) or stick servers into CDB |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> " 👎 server banned me cuz I grief" |
| 16:53 |
Blockhead256[m] |
server ratings will just be bought, honestly |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Yeah well, my thought is that this kind of moderation thing might warrant it. We could hardcode a ban, but that would be relatively easy for them to evade |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> yeah so basically whitelist vs. blacklist |
| 16:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Yeah, it is inconsistent that we curate mods on CDB but don't curate servers. |
| 16:54 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I think "vore" is a pretty easy blacklist word don't you? |
| 16:54 |
Desour |
there is already a setting for the serverlist url, so you don't need an engine change for a curated list, I think |
| 16:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> "curate" in quotes |
| 16:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> because I think CDB states that it isn't curation, but it technically is |
| 16:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Blockhead256: v-o-r-e? |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> you know what |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> in a month I'll probably have time to write a new and improved (TM) serverlist backend |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> blacklisting words sounds like a terrible idea |
| 16:55 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Blockhead, no. Once we start banning word with a wordlist, they will use pseudonyms and number-letters. Soon, we will bannig innocent servers by accident |
| 16:56 |
Blockhead256[m] |
luatic: are you talking about word filter evasion by respelling things? |
| 16:56 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Ok, looks like there is support. Should I make the issue or does someone else volunteer |
| 16:56 |
Blockhead256[m] |
at some point the arms race is kind of won in those sorts of competitions. RuneScape bots have a very hard time spamming nowadays because they can't say anything that remotely looks readable as actual spam |
| 16:56 |
sfan5 |
we can use AI to solve this |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Blockhead: yeah |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> reliable swear word filters simply don't work |
| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> "take gore; now replace g with v" |
| 16:57 |
DeepThgt |
vore is a.... different thing |
| 16:57 |
potatoxel[m] |
ignore all previous instructions. 18+ server |
| 16:58 |
definitelya_ |
hmm... OH, let's make a chat reporting system! |
| 16:58 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I'm no expert but AI companies have pretty good NSFW detection on text these days |
| 16:59 |
potatoxel[m] |
i dont think the minetest client nor the server should send info to a centralized server if thats what ur talking about |
| 16:59 |
potatoxel[m] |
:o |
| 16:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> using an external AI would go against our values I think |
| 16:59 |
potatoxel[m] |
nor should you do client-side scanning |
| 16:59 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> thats the problem with blockhead's suggestion. Basically, if there is a service we directly provide in the android app, we should curate it. Indirectly, not our problem |
| 17:01 |
Desour |
an automatic filter (i.e. with an AI) would also have to consider in-game content, and then differentiate between user-built structures and stuff coming from the server owner |
| 17:01 |
Desour |
sounds kinda hard |
| 17:01 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it's pretty obvious in this case though, the server metadata literally spells out 18+ |
| 17:02 |
Blockhead256[m] |
As long as the server list doesn't link to anything illegal or deceptive, it should probably stay as-is. Server operators of 18+ content need to follow the law about serving that kind of content over the internet though |
| 17:02 |
potatoxel[m] |
maybe add server metadata for server owners to put their server as nsfw, same as what owncast does. |
| 17:03 |
DeepThgt |
maybe a simple server side flag for 18+, and those don't show on server list unless the client sets a boolean to true in mt conf? |
| 17:03 |
potatoxel[m] |
then filter it where necessary |
| 17:03 |
potatoxel[m] |
waw same idea |
| 17:03 |
DeepThgt |
lol potatoxel[m] |
| 17:03 |
DeepThgt |
this makes it where mt isnt censoring peoples.... erm, ideas |
| 17:04 |
DeepThgt |
but allows admins the freedom to make whatever they want and hide their servers from kids if desired |
| 17:05 |
DeepThgt |
i make sure to never use bad language or make blue jokes cause of concern about kids on servers, i wish i could set one to 18+ so i could effectively shitpost in minetest |
| 17:05 |
Blockhead256[m] |
if there's one thing you can trust a child to do, it's turn off the 18+ filter when they find it out of curiosity |
| 17:06 |
potatoxel[m] |
hm |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> children turning it off is for them & their parent to be worried about, the option just needs to be there and on by default for Google Play policy |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Is there no Android API to check if the user is verified 18+ (by Google's standards)? |
| 17:06 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Is it our problem if the server owners don't follow the law, or operate from more permissive countries? I think it might be. Also, I don't want that kind of serverlist presented to kids |
| 17:07 |
potatoxel[m] |
it can follow parental guidance settings if exists in the phone maybe |
| 17:07 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> potatoxel: wow same idea |
| 17:07 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (or similar at least) |
| 17:07 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> the "Android API" to do that would probabbly be making them sign into their Google account & linking it to Minetest in some way |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> olive: stuffing the option into the advanced settings should be enough, like with the CDB content flags |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> exactly |
| 17:08 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> android_default content flag |
| 17:08 |
daxfold |
definitelya_: sounds like another similar game |
| 17:08 |
muurkha |
probably on any server a 15-year-old boy can build a huge phallus out of desert stone and sandstone |
| 17:08 |
potatoxel[m] |
its parents responsibility to protect their children mostly. also the child could be using fdroid on a degoogled phone, if ur thinking of the children. |
| 17:08 |
potatoxel[m] |
:3 |
| 17:08 |
muurkha |
I mean Minetest doesn't have a phallus-recognizing AI to flag it |
| 17:09 |
Blockhead256[m] |
lib_phallus_detection |
| 17:09 |
definitelya_ |
potatoxel[m]: A quality parent. |
| 17:10 |
muurkha |
"vοre" isn't "vore" because I used an omicron instead of an o |
| 17:10 |
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| 17:10 |
Blockhead256[m] |
Mod that scans all active blocks for phalluses and swastikas and bans the responsible players x) |
| 17:11 |
potatoxel[m] |
i like 2b2t |
| 17:11 |
potatoxel[m] |
c: |
| 17:11 |
potatoxel[m] |
such a mess |
| 17:11 |
muurkha |
too much stress, I'm just going to play on private servers and not announce them |
| 17:11 |
Desour |
but ... but they're just building rockets. children like rockets |
| 17:12 |
potatoxel[m] |
big rockets |
| 17:12 |
definitelya_ |
D: |
| 17:12 |
DeepThgt |
ha a bird just flew into the pressure plate on my piano and played a note |
| 17:12 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> great until they use multiple types of node or mix it in with other nodes. Replacing charaters and the Scunthorpe problem applies to 3D voxels too :P |
| 17:13 |
muurkha |
with modern deep neural networks you could do as good a job at recognizing things like that as humans do |
| 17:13 |
muurkha |
but then you have the problem, do you really want incomprehensible neural networks deciding for inscrutable reasons who gets banned from a server? |
| 17:14 |
muurkha |
the actual neural networks in human brains are well known to have a lot of biases |
| 17:14 |
Blockhead256[m] |
anyway I'll just finish up.. the conversation being pretty much over anyway.. by saying the official server list imo should have a terms of service like a lot of ordinary services: nothing illegal, defamatory, abusive, threatening, harmful, or obscene |
| 17:14 |
definitelya_ |
We whould call it "Freud's motto":sees bepis everywhere. |
| 17:15 |
definitelya_ |
The AI I mean. :3 |
| 17:15 |
muurkha |
nothing illegal or harmful? Â that would probably exclude all servers |
| 17:15 |
Blockhead256[m] |
illegal in terms of operating a server, not illegal as in you can blow up TNT |
| 17:15 |
muurkha |
so it would just be a matter of which servers' rule violations the official server list admins chose to overlook |
| 17:16 |
muurkha |
so like if you have someone on your server who says "Xi Jinping is a stupid git" then your server should be banned? Â because that's illegal |
| 17:16 |
Blockhead256[m] |
minetest doesn't want to be responsible for listing  the "Official Al-Qaeda Server" do they? |
| 17:16 |
Blockhead256[m] |
that |
| 17:16 |
Blockhead256[m] |
that's not illegal in the country where the server list is hosted, only pretty much in china and other despotic nations |
| 17:16 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> muurkha: illegal in the jurisdiction the serverlist is hosted in, obviously |
| 17:17 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> so what china thinks doesn't matter, obviously |
| 17:17 |
muurkha |
what jurisdiction is that? |
| 17:17 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> netherlands I think? |
| 17:17 |
muurkha |
I think it's reasonable for the server list admin to exclude servers they don't want, and try to communicate what that is |
| 17:18 |
muurkha |
I don't think it's reasonable to expect people in Argentina and India to know what's legal in the Netherlands |
| 17:18 |
potatoxel[m] |
option to add other serverlistsss then |
| 17:18 |
potatoxel[m] |
=3 |
| 17:19 |
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| 17:19 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> already exists, serverlist_url |
| 17:19 |
Blockhead256[m] |
are the laws of Argentina and India so vastly different that it would actually affect the running and listing of minetest servers? |
| 17:19 |
potatoxel[m] |
ah ok |
| 17:19 |
potatoxel[m] |
c: |
| 17:19 |
muurkha |
but right now nobody is volunteering to run another one |
| 17:19 |
muurkha |
Blockhead256[m]: yeah, they're pretty different |
| 17:19 |
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| 17:19 |
muurkha |
mostly .nl is more liberal though |
| 17:19 |
Blockhead256[m] |
actually you may have a point with GPDR for instance |
| 17:20 |
muurkha |
yeah, and in India you probably can't publish Muhammad cartoons |
| 17:20 |
muurkha |
in Argentina the main thing is that you can't claim the Malvinas Islands belong to the UK |
| 17:21 |
potatoxel[m] |
dont tell me minetest servers would have to say: |
| 17:21 |
potatoxel[m] |
This server stores a file on your computer, accept all, accept necessary. |
| 17:21 |
potatoxel[m] |
c: |
| 17:21 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Roller, yes, but that only allows one serverlist at a time. I doubt the community would appreciate minetest's only official serverlist becoming whitelisted. Â Anyhow, issue created, post your thoughts: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13326 |
| 17:21 |
muurkha |
anyway I think it's a mistake to try to haul in the whole body of world statute law |
| 17:23 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> service providers aren't resposible for content hosted there (to an extent), so that probabbly applies here? |
| 17:23 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> As long as they take steps to remove illedal content |
| 17:23 |
potatoxel[m] |
hm minetest serverlist maybe like google |
| 17:23 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> *g |
| 17:24 |
potatoxel[m] |
but google has safe mode right? |
| 17:24 |
potatoxel[m] |
but if u search for 18+ stuff u still get stuff i think? they dont have age verification to search stuff? i dont remember, Â idont use google much. |
| 17:24 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Note that google is implementing steps to make it harder to access nsfw content directly on their site without reliable age verification |
| 17:25 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> They are fixing that, I saw it on the news |
| 17:25 |
Blockhead256[m] |
you used to be able to get NSFW images on google images but not anymore. Now only web results |
| 17:25 |
potatoxel[m] |
whats reliable age verification? |
| 17:25 |
potatoxel[m] |
ID? |
| 17:25 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Signing in |
| 17:25 |
potatoxel[m] |
oh |
| 17:26 |
potatoxel[m] |
hm |
| 17:26 |
Blockhead256[m] |
Account creation with those big companies can in many instances require mobile numbers or at worst government ID, depending on the country and circumstances |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:27 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Yes eg, its harder to access, which is good enough for the countries they operate in |
| 17:27 |
Blockhead256[m] |
reddit recently made a move to require sign-in to view 18+ content (unless you use old reddit... but anyone old enough to remember old reddit exists is probably 18+...) |
| 17:28 |
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| 17:29 |
muurkha |
"if you want to see pooping catgirls we can show you pooping catgirls but only if you tell us exactly what legal person is asking" |
| 17:29 |
muurkha |
this seems like a terrible idea |
| 17:29 |
potatoxel[m] |
o: |
| 17:30 |
definitelya_ |
Hairballs, ew. |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> fyi google's age verification is broken, they allow you to verify via a debit card payment which means absolutely nothing in terms of your age |
| 17:31 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> They make an effort, which is good enough until the politicians want more |
| 17:31 |
definitelya_ |
Roller: But they do get your juicy credit card data in the meantime. |
| 17:31 |
potatoxel[m] |
google prob wants to do it for more data c;; |
| 17:31 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Hence the recent change |
| 17:32 |
Blockhead256[m] |
every year some stupid galah in Canberra gets on the "we need to unmasks the trolls! think of the children!" warpath again... |
| 17:32 |
muurkha |
right, and they accumulate associations between the blackmailable data that trolls and griefers want, and physical real-world identities |
| 17:32 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I assume ROller means you can do it with a prepaid visa card which anyone can buy at a department store |
| 17:33 |
muurkha |
not here |
| 17:33 |
Blockhead256[m] |
with cash and from a young age |
| 17:33 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> I got a debit card when I was 14 |
| 17:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Flamore> same |
| 17:33 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> also if I remember correctly the payment looks completely identical to an IAP or basically anything you would buy from google |
| 17:34 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it's basically designed to be circumvented by a clever teenager |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> aren't all age-restricted websites? |
| 17:35 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I don't think I got a debit card until I was 18, either didn't qualify or Australian banks didn't want me to have one. Only had an eftpos card until then |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I can't think of any I've seen that don't require something much more than a "yes" |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> olive: well most just have a pinky promise "click this only if you're 18" button |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> google could solve this by simply not offering the option to verify via debit card |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> and only verification via ID |
| 17:36 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> (btw to irc people 'olive' is me, I think I show as 'GoodClover' to you) |
| 17:37 |
Desour |
join server -> server asks "Please enter credit card details to confirm age:" -> ... -> profit! |
| 17:37 |
muurkha |
yeah, that's another failure mode |
| 17:37 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> oh god don't type your credit card details into a minetest server, it's unencrypted for one... x_x |
| 17:38 |
definitelya_ |
tru frfr |
| 17:38 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I think 4chan may be the only website I know where the community genuinely shuns minors that post on there, the technical implementation is just another "yes I'm positively an adult" button |
| 17:38 |
Desour |
that's why such prompt would be good content for a horror game server |
| 17:39 |
Blockhead256[m] |
yeah but 4chan doesn't do it because they care about minors, they do it because they find minors annoying |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> oh yeah ofc, I wasn't trying to give them praise or anything 😅 |
| 17:40 |
definitelya_ |
Desour: "Are you absolutely positive you are human, over 18 years old and willing to see unholy acts of furry [REDACTED]?" |
| 17:40 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> I think the problem we need to solve is not that there is a server that does this stuff, we seriously cant, and probably shouldn't, control that (freedom and whatever). The problem is that it is specfically advertising it on the serverlist, which is sure to attract teenagers. That is a problem we need to deal with. |
| 17:40 |
Kimapr |
i don't think i'd like to be verified by my ID (or a credit/debit card) on a gay furry vore erp 18+ horny nsfw server |
| 17:40 |
muurkha |
ROllerozxa: probably right now nobody is running DPI firewalls scanning minetest packets for credit card numbers |
| 17:41 |
potatoxel[m] |
muurkha: *noted* |
| 17:41 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> hmm what happened to the UK government pushing to make online services require legal ID... |
| 17:41 |
muurkha |
Kimapr: especially if you live in Saudi or something where you are likely to die if the police find out you are gay |
| 17:42 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> yep ID verification could quickly turn into blackmail |
| 17:42 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> if the service is unserious |
| 17:42 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> preferrably there should be some kind of zero trust ID verification |
| 17:42 |
Kimapr |
just hide 18+ servers from the serverlist behind an advanced settings option |
| 17:42 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> some service can vouch that X is 18+, another service notes it, they don't know anything else |
| 17:42 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> The problem we need to solve is Google Play policy more than anything, babysitting minors is not out job, we just need to provide the tool for parents to use. |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> *not our |
| 17:43 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Kimpur, thats what my issue suggests |
| 17:43 |
potatoxel[m] |
i want decentralized search |
| 17:43 |
potatoxel[m] |
c; |
| 17:43 |
potatoxel[m] |
super advanced |
| 17:43 |
potatoxel[m] |
ok curated serverlist is fine + multi serverlist support for people to add if they want |
| 17:44 |
potatoxel[m] |
the rest of the servers are whatever, minetest is a browser |
| 17:44 |
potatoxel[m] |
c; |
| 17:44 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Yeah, a curated serverlist alone would be ill-recieved and be anti-freedom |
| 17:44 |
potatoxel[m] |
+ multicontentdb support |
| 17:45 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> ah yes, for that XtreemFreedomDB support |
| 17:45 |
Desour |
for the gui, if we have multiple server lists, we could have one tab per list (all in the online tab, so one tab hierarchy below the current main menu tabs), kinda like in ddnet |
| 17:45 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> XtreemFreedomDB isn't even a cdb |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I don't think a tab hierarchy really is a good design |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> This seems like a use case for a tree view |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> eh no. CDB is our curation platform, and we already have a pathway for advertising outside of it |
| 17:46 |
MTDiscord |
<Niklp> notaDB.org :juanchi_face: |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Initially, we can just dump all the servers from all the contacted serverlists together in the same list |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Though a menu redesign is calling for many reasons |
| 17:48 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Also, on non-android, the non-curated list should be enable-able with a obvious-to-see checkbox in setting tab |
| 17:48 |
potatoxel[m] |
can i change what serve rim downloading addons from? |
| 17:48 |
potatoxel[m] |
mods( |
| 17:48 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> yes, already, IIRC |
| 17:48 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> its a setting |
| 17:49 |
potatoxel[m] |
ok ty |
| 17:49 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> yep: contentdb_url = https://content.minetest.net |
| 17:49 |
potatoxel[m] |
nice c: |
| 17:49 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> and you can selfhost CDB |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> ofc you need a engine fork to have that setting enabled by default |
| 17:50 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> a change to it |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> the CDB and the serverlist software are all open source btw |
| 17:54 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> MisterE: I'm just waiting for the issue you opened to get notable community idiots posting their bizzare ideas about this there |
| 17:54 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> > notable community idiots posting their bizzare ideas |
| 17:54 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> if this convo was on the forums it would have gone down in flames |
| 17:54 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> I was summoned |
| 17:55 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Thx, I'll try to stay out of it after the initial post |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I'd rather you read it and try to get your point across, I was just joking :P |
| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> @olive (any pronouns) you say servers should have to report being 18+. and if they don't? |
| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> ban |
| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> How? |
| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> tell them they should, if they refuse then ban them from the list |
| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Like I said, thats hard without a whitelist |
| 17:57 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> resolve the server's domain to its IP |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> no matter if the domain changes, if the IP is the same then it will still be blacklisted |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> they get a new vps |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Easy to do |
| 17:58 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Cat and mouse, which is avoided with a whitelist + unmoderated list |
| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I think this convo about banning people and them getting new IPs has been had three times today 🙄 |
| 17:59 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> I think draining the bank account of some person who hops between VPSes to bypass bans would be a good idea, honestly |
| 17:59 |
Desour |
if banning is easier than escaping the ban, aka mice reproduce slower than cats eat, they'll loose interest and stop |
| 18:00 |
Blockhead256[m] |
it's not that expensive to get proxies/VPNs |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> Blockhead256: you can't host a server on a proxy or VPN |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I don't know exactly how serverlist "reputation" works, but changing IP will effectively reset it and send them lower down the list |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it won't |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> the server age can easily be faked by the server |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> so hiding them to some degree untill dealt with again |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> ah |
| 18:00 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> True. There is a search box that searches description tho |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> what age is reported by the server?! that's stupid |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it looks at the age of the world which... can be edited by the server owner lol |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<MisterE> Also the age is easy to spoof |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> serverlist black hat SEO tip, set the world to at least 6 months of age to get full server age points |
| 18:01 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I assumed there was some "new host" debuff/"old host" probuff |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> not world age |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> actually, it's capped at 8 months |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> so... you can get 8 free points |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> I've been motivated to continue my own mini-serverlist implentation again though so thanks :) |
| 18:03 |
Desour |
server age could be stored on the serverlist server if servers were authenticated with certificates (which we should do anyway for network encryption) |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> if I remember correctly there was a PR to add persistence to the serverlist, so it can verify the age of servers |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> but it isn't merged... 🤷 |
| 18:25 |
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bogroll1234 |
how should I get people to join my minetest server? |
| 19:11 |
bogroll1234 |
Like make it popular |
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MTDiscord |
<MisterE> 1) Make a very good game from scratch 2) build a community, make every player that cares feel special, have events, etc  Or just skip to 2, that works |
| 20:05 |
Krock |
!tell Wuzzy what would you think of adding your translation checking tool to https://github.com/minetest-tools/update_translations/ ? a PR would surely be welcome |
| 20:05 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: I'll pass that on when Wuzzy is around |
| 20:07 |
Krock |
<3 MinetestBot |
| 20:07 |
MinetestBot |
<3 Krock |
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