| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 05:56 |
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| 05:57 |
bogroll1234 |
How do I make my server popular? |
| 05:57 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> you don't |
| 05:57 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> bad idea |
| 05:58 |
bogroll1234 |
Oh |
| 05:58 |
bogroll1234 |
Do people know how many people play minetest? |
| 05:59 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> unless you earn money from it somehow (which in minetest you don't) running a popular server is just trouble |
| 06:00 |
bogroll1234 |
What if I earn money fromother sources? |
| 06:02 |
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fling joined #minetest |
| 06:06 |
bogroll1234 |
Are there any game panels for minetest |
| 06:08 |
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| 06:10 |
bogroll1234 |
fling:Hi! |
| 06:21 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> what the hell is a game panel |
| 06:23 |
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| 06:23 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> "How do I make my server popular?" from looking at yesterday's IRC conversation, the best way to make people talk about your server seems to be turning it into a furry roleplay server (...don't actually do that) |
| 06:29 |
Peter_Lankton |
yeah about that, hi i am the one who runs that server. i would like to make it clear that i do not want kids on my server. i will make an age verification system. |
| 06:32 |
bogroll1234 |
A game panel is a web-based server management panel |
| 06:36 |
bogroll1234 |
do you think that kids should be able to play minetest |
| 06:36 |
Peter_Lankton |
Look i dont wanna make any enemies. i think some kind of age rating system for servers in the server list would be good. and i would use it. |
| 06:37 |
bogroll1234 |
I'm now trying to make any new enemies |
| 06:37 |
Peter_Lankton |
well i think its an all ages game. kids should be able to play it. but so should adults. and adults should be able to have their own separate servers just like how there are adult websites. |
| 06:38 |
bogroll1234 |
How will the age verification system affect the people who already have accounts? |
| 06:38 |
Peter_Lankton |
anyone who has not been verified will be shown the dialog. it wont use the register_on_newplayer function |
| 06:39 |
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| 06:50 |
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| 07:56 |
Peter_Lankton |
what i mean by "don't wanna make enemies" is that if the decision is made to blacklist my server from the minetest server list, i will make no attempt to circumvent it. but i think a better solution is some kind of server flag and/or a clear set of rules for servers on the list to adhere to. If a rule is made prohibiting all servers with adult content, i will voluntarily remove my server from the list. |
| 08:13 |
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| 09:14 |
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| 09:59 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> Peter_Lankon: It would be great if you could comment on the issue for this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13326 |
| 09:59 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> sorry, Peter_Lankton |
| 10:09 |
Peter_Lankton |
i cannot make a comment on github at this time. but i have added a simple age verification dialog for the moment. it asks the player for their age, if they are under 18 or dont fill it out at all, they are kicked. |
| 10:37 |
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| 11:13 |
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| 11:32 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> Peter_Lankton: well that's good that you've implemented some form of an age verification dialog, but will you also be putting moderation in place to ban players who later state they're underage in chat? |
| 11:37 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> also I hope you ban people who write an age under 18 in the dialog |
| 11:40 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> otherwise they could just rejoin, say they're 18 and they get access |
| 11:40 |
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proller joined #minetest |
| 11:50 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> obviously though, just a simple "type your age" verification is inherently broken. personally what seems to work better is to combine it with a mathematical verification question, one that an 18 year old would have no issue with (something with trigonometry, derivatives, integrals or whatever) but that would filter out most younger people |
| 11:52 |
sfan5 |
someone fresh out of higher education might bother, anyone else won't |
| 12:07 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> then you can use szutil_motdagree |
| 12:07 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> force new players to read a wall of text |
| 12:08 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> instructions on how to access the game will be buried in the text |
| 12:09 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> actually szutil_motdagree is probably not enough, they would still have at least read access to chat |
| 12:10 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> and could walk around etc |
| 12:10 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> I'd hope it would block out chat and make them unable to move |
| 12:12 |
Kailash |
Or a mini test. On a server with creativity, for example. |
| 12:12 |
Kailash |
1. Can I destroy other people's buildings? |
| 12:12 |
Kailash |
2. Can you chase other players? |
| 12:12 |
Kailash |
3. Can the terrain be destroyed? |
| 12:14 |
MTDiscord |
<kimapr> this is a 18+ horny server |
| 12:15 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> Kailash: that probably wouldn't work very well, you need questions that require some amount of work from the player and answers that aren't yes/no |
| 12:15 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> essentially, human proof-of-work, with a bonus that they might be above a certain age if they are able to solve something |
| 12:20 |
Kailash |
Something like: What's inside a VCR cassette? Options: Magnetic tape. Flash drive. Or a laser disc. |
| 12:23 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> hah |
| 12:24 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> "what's the storage capacity of a 3.5 inch floppy disk?" |
| 12:32 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> it is scientifically proven that if you know what floppies are, you are officially old |
| 12:33 |
potatoxel[m] |
i have a floppy |
| 12:33 |
potatoxel[m] |
and i know what it is so ur calling me old 3: |
| 12:33 |
potatoxel[m] |
im just a young tomato |
| 12:35 |
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| 12:39 |
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| 12:42 |
Peter_Lankton |
this is as far as i am willing to go. i will make an effort to ban players who admit in chat that they are underage or even behave childish. not much else i can do. i am not gonna make them write a 10 page essay on the history of computers or something just so they can play. |
| 12:44 |
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Leopold joined #minetest |
| 12:47 |
Peter_Lankton |
i will also change the TTS message to make it speak aloud that it is an adult only server. to hopefully alert any nearby parents who may be in the room with little Billy and his ipad babysitting device. |
| 12:47 |
potatoxel[m] |
lol |
| 12:49 |
potatoxel[m] |
i myself do not know a solution, all i know is its their parents responsibility to take care of their child, and the think of the children as an excuse to decrease privacy that governments make i disagree with. |
| 12:50 |
potatoxel[m] |
what u said seems like the bare minimum, if you know they are a child you ban them. |
| 12:51 |
MTDiscord |
<ROllerozxa> Peter_Lankton: when the fuck did anyone say you should require players to write a 10 page essay about computers |
| 12:51 |
potatoxel[m] |
idk goodluck have fun |
| 12:51 |
potatoxel[m] |
c; |
| 12:51 |
potatoxel[m] |
thats prob an overexaggeration |
| 12:52 |
potatoxel[m] |
not them understanding literally what u said |
| 12:52 |
potatoxel[m] |
:3 |
| 12:53 |
celeron55_ |
for the record, for now, as i mentioned previously, to me, it seems ok that it just has the age verification dialog. but this of course isn't final, if there's feedback from somewhere or someone implements new server flags or whatnot, things will change |
| 12:54 |
celeron55_ |
and of course the intent of moderating the server is good |
| 13:08 |
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| 13:12 |
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| 13:15 |
Blockhead256[m] |
is there no feature flag for rotatable entity selection boxes? |
| 13:16 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I'd appreciate if there was, because what I want the selection box of a rather large train to be is going to vary depending on whether its selection box can rotate |
| 13:17 |
MTDiscord |
<paws> yeah me too, but when will it come back online? |
| 13:22 |
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| 13:28 |
rubenwardy |
Blockhead256[m]: we don't have support for client-side feature flags |
| 13:28 |
rubenwardy |
rotatable entity selection boxes requires both the client and server to be 5.7.0+ |
| 13:28 |
rubenwardy |
so you can use protocol version |
| 13:28 |
Blockhead256[m] |
so the protocol version has been bumped between the two versions? That will suffice |
| 13:28 |
rubenwardy |
if minetest.get_player_information(name).protocol_version >= 41 then |
| 13:29 |
Blockhead256[m] |
between 5.6. and 5.7 that is |
| 13:29 |
rubenwardy |
ah *41 |
| 13:29 |
rubenwardy |
**42 |
| 13:30 |
Blockhead256[m] |
we don't have ss-csm though, I want the server to change based on its own protocol version. Is there no way to get the server protocol version at load time? |
| 13:30 |
rubenwardy |
the player protocol version will be at most the player's protocol version |
| 13:30 |
rubenwardy |
*server |
| 13:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> was about to welcome you into tautology club :P |
| 13:31 |
rubenwardy |
minetest.get_player_information(name).protocol_version >= 42 means that both the client and server are on >= 42 |
| 13:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well, the issue here is that you can't currently send selectionboxes on a per-player basis 🙃 |
| 13:31 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I am defining the collision box of an entity and then registering that entity. That all happens on the server. There are no players at the time that code runs |
| 13:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> perhaps a better design would have been a second rotatable_selection_box = {...} which would get sent to new clients; old clients could then get a different box |
| 13:33 |
rubenwardy |
yeah probably |
| 13:35 |
Blockhead256[m] |
having though about it for a while, that sounds quite reasonable and architecturally sound |
| 13:35 |
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| 13:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I could change it to allow rotate = tbl in the box; since tbl is truthy, this should even be backwards-compatible, provided I use tobool (let me check) |
| 13:41 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ah no, too bad: getboolfield will check the type, and if it doesn't match, will just return false |
| 13:42 |
rubenwardy |
that sounds broken |
| 13:45 |
Blockhead256[m] |
backwards compatibility doesn't sound awfully important here unless you're saying this won't make it in until 5.8 |
| 13:47 |
rubenwardy |
Lua allows you to coerce non-boolean values to bools. This is required, if the code doesn't do this then it is broken |
| 13:47 |
rubenwardy |
because `a and b` doesn't necessarily return a boolean |
| 13:50 |
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| 13:50 |
Blockhead256[m] |
looking at the C++, it seems equivalent to `return type(x) == "boolean" and x` |
| 13:50 |
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| 13:51 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I think that sounds important so that people passing truthy but not boolean values to APIs don't cause weird behaviour |
| 13:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Blockhead256: Yeah, that's exactly what it does. |
| 13:51 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I think truthy values being coerced to false by the Minetest API is weird. |
| 13:51 |
Blockhead256[m] |
well if it's a field like the texture transparency fields, you don't want true/false to be the same as the string variants |
| 13:52 |
Blockhead256[m] |
type matter sometimes |
| 13:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well, then the code will contain explicit type checks |
| 13:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> when C++ code calls getboolfield, it expects a bool - nothing else; a different type should either be coerced according to truthiness (equivalent to not not x in Lua or tobool), or an error should be thrown |
| 13:53 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> coercing truthy values to false bools IMO is wrong |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> replacing values of invalid values with a default might be reasonable, but that default shouldn't be false |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> invalid types* |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (i.e. that default shouldn't be hardcoded) |
| 13:54 |
rubenwardy |
agreed |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> just using tobool here would also be a lot more efficient |
| 13:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> that said, we can't change this now, because backwards compat and sure enough someone is relying on a string, table or number being treated as false 🙃 |
| 13:55 |
rubenwardy |
nah, it's a bug - relying a string/table/number being false is incorrect |
| 13:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yeah, but people might be relying on this bug |
| 13:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> getboolfield is used often enough that it's hard to estimate the breakage a fix might cause |
| 13:56 |
Blockhead256[m] |
well do we want to make them upset or not? |
| 13:56 |
rubenwardy |
more people will be surprised by this behaviour than they use it |
| 13:56 |
rubenwardy |
getboolfield uses lua_toboolean |
| 13:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> nevermind, I might have been reading it wrong |
| 13:57 |
rubenwardy |
so it's already correc |
| 13:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> it does do a type check, but got will be false if the type doesn't match |
| 13:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the question is how the calling code handles this |
| 13:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> usually it will just stay at the default |
| 13:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> so invalid type means stay as default, which is sane |
| 13:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere there is an uninitialized bool though 😆 |
| 13:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> anyways, relying on truthy values won't work then; got will be false and the selectionbox won't be marked as rotatable (it will stay as non-rotatable, which is the default) |
| 13:59 |
Blockhead256[m] |
I'm still not sure I see the point. You have to change the C++ anyway right, so make it correct? |
| 14:20 |
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| 15:00 |
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| 16:10 |
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| 20:15 |
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| 20:15 |
bogroll1234 |
does anyone have any servers I could join? |
| 20:17 |
daxfold |
you should probably ask the serverlist. It knows quite a few servers |
| 20:23 |
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| 21:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> What's 26.25% minetestserver [.] MapGridNodeContainer::access ? |
| 21:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Bla> pathfinding 😛 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?q=MapGridNodeContainer |
| 22:38 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> when is 5.7.0 releasing? |
| 22:41 |
Desour_ |
19. or later |
| 22:41 |
MTDiscord |
<PrairieWind> sweet |
| 22:47 |
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