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IRC log for #minetest, 2022-08-05

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04:34 MTDiscord <diceLibrarian> IRC? What's that? Internal Revenue Cops?
04:37 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You are sea?
04:45 MTDiscord <diceLibrarian> > diceLibrarian has gained new knowledge: Developers on Discord tend to be chaotic
04:46 MTDiscord <diceLibrarian> I know that IRC is short for Internet Relay Chat, put down your pitchforks
04:47 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The fact that I'm pretty sure I've seen you chatting on other IRC channels made me suspect you were being less than completely serious.
04:48 MTDiscord <diceLibrarian> Guilty as charged.
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05:57 freebsdd .
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07:49 MTDiscord <luatic> Yay, features are possible again
07:51 MTDiscord <luatic> I ask you to take a look at #12353 #12379 #12388, ideally in that order (the acceleration fix is IMO both the most important and the easiest to review)
07:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12353 -- Fix acceleration by appgurueu
07:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12379 -- Allow rotating entity selectionboxes by appgurueu
07:51 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/12388 -- Extend bone override capabilities by appgurueu
07:53 MTDiscord <luatic> probably belongs in #minetest-dev 🤔
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08:10 Oblomov The thing I don't like about the acceleration fix is the arbitrary scaling of the gravity hack
08:12 Oblomov I understand that it is meant to compensate for the differences introduced by the fix, but it's a horrible hack that is likely to be forgotten by the time a total breaking change that could make it unnecessary is done
08:13 Oblomov I would rather see it fixed for good, no hacks. Inform the game developers in advance so that they may adjust
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08:14 Oblomov Maybe introduce a version feature correct_acceleration_handling or whatever
08:24 MTDiscord <luatic> Oblomov: You're misunderstanding something
08:24 Oblomov Possibly
08:24 MTDiscord <luatic> I'm not arbitrarily scaling gravity, I just had to preserve the arbitrary scaling of gravity
08:24 MTDiscord <luatic> I haven't introduced this to "compensate" for anything
08:24 Oblomov The hack was there already?
08:24 MTDiscord <luatic> In fact I haven't introduced it at all, I have merely preserved it (yes, it was there already)
08:25 Oblomov I'm looking at the patch on mobile, might have confused
08:25 MTDiscord <luatic> See https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12353/files#diff-780cb5145d57633f7f77ad2c0a9be785f9712af8a2b34af4e2114f016545526bL202 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12353/files#diff-780cb5145d57633f7f77ad2c0a9be785f9712af8a2b34af4e2114f016545526bL208
08:26 MTDiscord <luatic> I just moved the hacky factor to a more prominent location with a note to remove it eventually
08:27 Oblomov Ah gotcha
08:28 Oblomov May I recommend making it a global game setting?
08:28 Oblomov So games can be developed that use the correct gravity value directly
08:29 Oblomov And those that don't override it remain unchanged
08:29 MTDiscord <luatic> Too complex IMO
08:29 MTDiscord <luatic> Also unnecessary compatibility break: Games that use the factor to "do it right" won't be compatible with 5.6 and lower
08:29 Oblomov Something like a legacy_gravity_scale, defaulting to the current hack
08:30 Oblomov Ah
08:30 MTDiscord <luatic> I'd prefer sticking with the factor until 6.0 and just removing it then
08:30 Oblomov Well they could change the setting based on API version
08:33 MTDiscord <luatic> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/12353/commits/89e7d1d38e8c4c1f70309bbe11b4bf3eaed8c85e
08:38 Oblomov I'm curious how the auto jump would work with nodecore's accelerate-while-walking mechanism
08:38 Oblomov I should probably test it
08:39 Oblomov BTW might want to rebate the branch
08:43 MTDiscord <luatic> Oblomov: Rebased.
08:48 Oblomov I'll try giving it a spin with NC when I get back home
08:49 Oblomov NC has auto jump enabled by default, but I'm not sure how it's implemented
08:50 Goobax[m]1 Hello you can show me a picture of the new minetest 5.6
08:50 Oblomov maybe it's not even auto jump, I'm thinking
10:43 Oblomov hm did 5.6.0 remove the gamma settings?
10:46 MTDiscord <ROllerozxa> does not look like it? display_gamma
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10:59 rubenwardy Oblomov: settings have been reorganised but still exist
11:05 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Enable C++ stdlib assertions in debug flags 4fbcc33 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/4fbcc33ee08e521015529ba4f494fc9cff771ebb (2022-08-05T11:04:01Z)
11:06 Oblomov rubenwardy: I'll double check
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12:24 independent56 If we look at Minecraft, we have chest carts and hopper carts and various other mixes between blocks and carts. How do i transport items by cart in Mineclone2? How do i get items to go up? How do i make hoppers face sideways?
12:25 independent56 I'm not using pipeworks because i want to use vanilla mineclone, but if i have to, i will.
12:41 independent56 If i do not recieve an answer by 15:25, i will post it on the Mineclone forum page.
12:42 sfan5 which timezone tho?
12:44 independent56 BST, 2 hours after the last pipeworks comment
12:44 independent56 But i have discovered bubble columns mod, which allows you to push items up through water
12:44 independent56 And technically it is a Vanilla Minecraft feature
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12:47 independent56 Investigation shows items can be pushed by water, potentially into hoppers
12:52 independent56 Experimentation shows hoppers change direction not automatically like pipeworks, but rely on placement direction
13:19 phillw Is 5.6.0 (2022-08-04) available via Debian apt, or do I need to download the .deb ?
13:20 sfan5 debian tends to take a while with updates
13:20 sfan5 but I don't think we have a .deb available either
13:21 phillw ah, well that scuppers that. is minecraft still alive?
13:22 sfan5 you can still install via snap, flatpak or an appimage (if those are there yet)
13:22 schwarzwald[m] Compiling from source is also an option, but you have to install some development packages then.
13:24 phillw sfan5: thanks, but I am alergic to snaps on my servers :)
13:24 sfan5 ah, a server
13:25 phillw schwarzwald[m]: I'll ask the two young guys if they want to go down the compile route. I'm a bit out of practice, but they may be up for it :)
13:26 schwarzwald[m] If you're on x86-64 I can create a .deb. You'd have to trust me that it isn't a virus. :)
13:26 schwarzwald[m] If they want to try compiling I'd be happy to assist. I've walked people through it before.
13:26 phillw sfan5: yeah, it's going onto a Debian 11 instance... 8 GB RAM, 100 GB HDD and 2 cores.
13:27 phillw I run 3 'daddy' servers, so this would be a KVM instance.
13:27 sfan5 I can recommend either docker or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=311160#p311160
13:27 sfan5 except wait I don't think that works on 5.6.0 anymore
13:27 sfan5 should be a quick fix
13:28 phillw schwarzwald[m]: if you can spin up a deb, I'll go with that and the lads can then learn about doing it themselves.
13:29 schwarzwald[m] If this is for a dedicated server I suppose you want just the headless server?
13:29 phillw schwarzwald[m]: it's for our tuxiversity area and for one of the guys who runs code clubs at schools and libraries.
13:30 phillw it is ssh access only :)
13:30 schwarzwald[m] sfan5: There's no git tag for the 5.5.0 or 5.6.0 releases.
13:31 schwarzwald[m] Nevermind, I had to fetch refs.
13:31 phillw but, it does get its own ipV4 as I got some for each 'daddy' server so there is never a conflict of sharing when an a$$hole decides to send loads of spam out and gets the ipV4 blacklisted.
13:32 sfan5 okay updated my forum post, not tested though
13:33 schwarzwald[m] Do you want it with PostgreSQL backend, or just SQLite? If it's not going to be under a significant load I would guess SQLite is sufficient, but I'm not a server admin so my knowledge there is limited.
13:35 phillw I'm more used to mariadb (the replacement of MySQL) I'll go with your reccomendation.
13:36 schwarzwald[m] I'll go with SQLite then because it's worked fine for me in the past and it's very convenient to set up.
13:36 phillw do that :)
13:38 schwarzwald[m] I'm on Debian 11 as well. Great system. I only have 3GB RAM though and a Core Duo CPU, so compiling this takes a little longer than a few minutes. xD
13:40 schwarzwald[m] I didn't quite understand yet whether you want just the server part, or whether you are intending to use VNC or something to run the client there as well.
13:40 schwarzwald[m] I can also just package both versions. xD
13:40 phillw schwarzwald[m]: you should have said, I'd have given you access to the KVM I am to set up.
13:40 sfan5 I just built a minetest-5.6.0-linux.tar.gz while testing my script if you could use that (debian 11 too)
13:41 schwarzwald[m] If you already have a build directory I think you can get a .deb from it as well just by running CPack.
13:41 phillw I will not be using it. It is there as a tool to help teach students. That is what I was asked for and I did have an instance about 5 years ago so do know it exists. Never logged on though :)
13:44 phillw the #tuxiversity area is an area that is looked after by its own set of volunteers. Myself and my fellow sys-admin are there to help when they have technical requests (they have a wordpress area, phpBB forum, live tutorial area, etc.)
13:45 schwarzwald[m] Sounds pretty cool!
13:46 schwarzwald[m] I'm curious how it works to package just the headless server. I assume it works, but with Minetest you never know.
13:46 phillw you're welcome to pop by any time. If you can give guidance to help educate that's what the area is for.
13:49 schwarzwald[m] Heh, I wonder how the packager decides which dependencies to list. ^^
13:49 schwarzwald[m] I think I will try to inspect the .deb to make sure it makes sense. Sfan's compressed tar should work just as well, though.
13:50 phillw I'm just waiting an idiot check from my fellow sys admin before I create an 8GB KVM.
13:51 phillw current plan is to be in canada
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14:02 vkoskiv Yo. I'm hosting a minetest server on a linux box with the mineclone2 gamemode and world I copied from my laptop. Logging in yields an empty world, player falls forever. Is there something obvious I'm missing?
14:02 vkoskiv I get 3 errors like this upon startup:
14:02 vkoskiv 2022-08-05 16:00:32: ERROR[Main]: Mapgen: Mapgen alias 'mapgen_stone' is invalid!
14:03 vkoskiv For 3 different mapgen aliases.
14:03 schwarzwald[m] It sounds to me like you're missing the ground. (/s)
14:03 vkoskiv I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I had to compile the thing from source, maybe I missed some flag somewhere.
14:04 vkoskiv When I host it from my laptop from the game main menu, it works just fine. I just want to host it from a beefier server instead.
14:04 phillw schwarzwald[m]: my co sys-admin is back (he is disabled and has also managed to injure himself). I'll get the KVM set up and then ask how to get your .deb
14:04 vkoskiv Is copying the world/gamemode a no-no?
14:04 vkoskiv From one system to another, I mean.
14:04 vkoskiv I copied it from this arm laptop to an x86 server, if that matters.
14:04 schwarzwald[m] First thing I'd suggest is to figure out which version your laptop is running, vs which version your server is running. It should be totally OK to move the world around.
14:05 schwarzwald[m] It's basically just database files as far as I know. Shouldn't matter what architecture they're moved to.
14:05 vkoskiv On my laptop I installed whatever was on apt, so 5.5.0. On the server the apt version was older, so I compiled 5.5.0 from source.
14:05 schwarzwald[m] Same version then, so that shouldn't be the problem...
14:06 phillw they will be installed on a virgin Debian 11 system. My laptop is more adventurous and runs xebian which is debian sid with xcfe DE
14:07 schwarzwald[m] phillw: Done compiling, but I want to load one of my worlds quick to confirm that it works.
14:07 schwarzwald[m] First time for me testing the new release!
14:08 phillw schwarzwald[m]: it will be a while before the KVM is ready, slow and steady is the route
14:08 mrkubax10 vkoskiv: do you have mcl2 installed on server?
14:08 schwarzwald[m] LOL
14:08 schwarzwald[m] sfan5: Get over here. The world is upside down.
14:08 schwarzwald[m] I mean literally upside down.
14:08 vkoskiv I think so. I copied the mcl2 dir to the games directory and set --gameid and it says it uses it
14:08 schwarzwald[m] Lemme grab a screenshot.
14:09 vkoskiv Fun game so far! I had to make the switch after Microsoft banned me from playing minecraft after doing that weird account migration.
14:10 * schwarzwald[m] uploaded an image: (46KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/djLMwZuymfjLDxalJmkyZMVo/2022-08-05-090939_510x747_scrot.png >
14:10 schwarzwald[m] Genius.
14:10 mrkubax10 lol
14:10 schwarzwald[m] I can't find any way to get the camera rightside up again.
14:11 mrkubax10 negative fov maybe?
14:11 schwarzwald[m] I have the FOV on max, so let me change that.
14:12 schwarzwald[m] Ooh, that fixed it.
14:12 vkoskiv Here's my full invocation:
14:12 vkoskiv bin/minetestserver --gameid mineclone2 --logfile server.log --world .minetest/worlds/CoolWorld\ Part\ 2
14:12 vkoskiv And yes, I know. Not my smartest moment putting spaces in the world name
14:12 mrkubax10 maybe try without spaces
14:13 schwarzwald[m] So 1) FOV setting definitely works 2) Max FOV on low window resolution flips the camera upside down.
14:13 schwarzwald[m] I'll experiment more later, but it's working so let me get that .deb
14:14 vkoskiv mrkubax10: That was it! Loaded noe!
14:14 vkoskiv s/noe/now
14:14 vkoskiv Thanks!
14:14 mrkubax10 nice
14:14 vkoskiv No obvious errors when it did have spaces, so I didn't think that was it
14:14 vkoskiv Totally works now. Back to playing!
14:14 vkoskiv We're playing at Assembly
14:15 vkoskiv Weird, it loaded some unknown world
14:15 vkoskiv Looks like it just generated a fresh world instead of using the one I specified
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14:17 mrkubax10 spaces in path should work if you use doublequotes, not sure about that though
14:17 schwarzwald[m] phillw: deb is ready, but it has no dependencies specified. I don't know all the packages it needs off the top of my head, but I can try adding a couple I know are necessary.
14:17 mrkubax10 vkoskiv: try this bin/minetestserver --gameid mineclone2 --logfile server.log --world ".minetest/worlds/CoolWorld Part 2"
14:18 vkoskiv Fixed it. I just copied the world again from my system
14:18 vkoskiv And I renamed to remove spaces. Seems to work now!
14:18 mrkubax10 good
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14:21 phillw schwarzwald[m]: cheers. Just confirmed with my co sys-admin that we are creating on the server over in canada (Canada is a GDPR approved country, so I have no fears in that respect)
14:27 schwarzwald[m] I can't figure out how to format the dependencies correctly, so I'll send the one with no dependencies and I can post a list of a couple I know it needs.
14:27 schwarzwald[m] How would you like me to send it?
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14:54 MTDiscord <luatic> schwarzwald: I believe this is a known bug of undersampling on Android: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5929#issuecomment-358855893
14:55 MTDiscord <luatic> Does it now appear with 5.x on PCs?
14:55 schwarzwald[m] I'm on Debian 11, not Android. :)
14:55 schwarzwald[m] On 5.6.0 at least.
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16:54 independent56 Is it generally good practice to replant trees on Anarchy Servers?
16:54 independent56 Is it a waste of time or help for noobs?
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16:58 Sadistic_Angela Quick question: Where can I find older builds of MT?
16:58 definitelya independent56: I'll bite. Anarchy doesn't have such concepts of "good practice", there's only "your practice" ahah.
17:03 definitelya Sadistic_Angela: I get them from here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases
17:04 Sadistic_Angela definitelya: Nothing older than 0.4.8 on there? I thought I had an older version at one point...
17:05 definitelya There probably are repos with those versions, I don't know of any.
17:07 independent56 Makes sense. I'll replant just to be nice and to hide my tracks ;-p
17:07 definitelya Sadistic_Angela: You can play sfan5's recreation of minetest-c55 though. It's on his GitHub profile.
17:08 definitelya independent56: Smart!
17:08 Sadistic_Angela definitelya: I'm not looking for a recreation. I have a Windows XP machine here with an actual nVidia GPU and I want to see how recent I can get it to go, ehehe
17:08 definitelya I see.
17:09 sfan5 http://packages.8dromeda.net/minetest/minetest_old_releases_2010_through_2012_mostly_win32/
17:10 Sadistic_Angela Pentium 4 1.6; 256 MB DDR...2, I think; NVidia GeForce2 MX-200 32 MB AGP...
17:10 sfan5 modern minetest might still work on winxp, but if so more by accident than intentionally
17:11 Sadistic_Angela Well, I'm fairly sure the code would run, except the 32 MB VRAM xD
17:11 Sadistic_Angela *That's* what I'm concerned about, lol
17:12 Sadistic_Angela Heck, the GPU may even be fast enough if the VRAM wasn't... tiny.
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20:20 independent56 What is the Autocrafter of Mineclone? Like, you use a hopper to put in items and remove them  later.
20:20 independent56 Do you have to do everything by hand?!
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22:17 MTDiscord <diceLibrarian> ah this is Libera, one moment
22:17 diceLibrarian joined #minetest
22:17 diceLibrarian greetings
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23:04 sabino hi. Is possible to connect pipes on protected chest from protector redo mod?
23:04 sabino I need to transfer, filter-injector doens't work with
23:05 sabino oh and wrench from technic doenst work too I cant get it
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