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Topic for #minetest is now The official Minetest channel | Latest version: 5.4.1 (2021-04-10) | General, player and modding discussion is on-topic. If in doubt, post here | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: https://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest |
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| 11:16 |
sfan5 |
!mod basic_materials |
| 11:16 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: Basic Materials [basic_materials] by VanessaE - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21000 - https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/basic_materials |
| 11:16 |
sfan5 |
repo gone? |
| 11:16 |
sfan5 |
nah, URL just out of date |
| 11:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> moved to https://github.com/mt-mods/basic_materials |
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MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Link is up to date on forum and cdb? Is there somewhere that was missed sfan5? |
| 13:11 |
sfan5 |
MinetestBot pulls its data from krock's mod search |
| 13:11 |
sfan5 |
and that one still goes to gitlab |
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MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Hmm, guess have to see where that gets it info from, thanks |
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MTDiscord |
<j45> erlehmann, r u there? |
| 17:14 |
MTDiscord |
Command sent from Discord by j45: |
| 17:14 |
MTDiscord |
!tell erlehmann just wanted to let u know that i made the chat logger simpler to use and the code is now readable |
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MinetestBot |
MTDiscord: yeah, yeah |
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| 17:48 |
Yad |
In the Lua API, what's the syntax for having the node refer to itself? |
| 17:48 |
Yad |
I'm trying to for example, change the texture when the node is punched. |
| 17:49 |
sfan5 |
ah |
| 17:49 |
rubenwardy |
that's not possible unfortunately. Nodes use definitions, they're not prototype-based like entities |
| 17:49 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> not that oop really :p |
| 17:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> you can't dynamically change node definition on the fly AFAIK |
| 17:49 |
sfan5 |
unlike with entities you don't have an "instance" of a node to work with |
| 17:49 |
sfan5 |
I'm off now but I'm sure everyone else has more advice for you |
| 17:49 |
rubenwardy |
Because they use a fixed definition, there's a limited amount of things you can change dynamically about a node |
| 17:50 |
rubenwardy |
you have one 8-bit number called param2 that can be used to change things based on param2type, this can be used to color nodes or rotate them etc |
| 17:50 |
Yad |
rubenwardy: Oooh! Good to know. So only entities have individually changeable properties? That might be an aspect of why the rendering is so efficient. |
| 17:50 |
Krock |
32 bits per node. 16 for its internal ID (i.e. the node name), 8 bits for light level, 8 bits param2 |
| 17:51 |
rubenwardy |
The way to do this would be to register multiple nodes |
| 17:51 |
rubenwardy |
for example, the furnace is actually two nodes - one that's off, and one that's on |
| 17:51 |
rubenwardy |
it then swaps when it goes off or on |
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| 17:51 |
Yad |
Yes I see what you mean rubenwardy |
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| 17:51 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah, rendering is efficient because we only store 32 bits per node |
| 17:52 |
Yad |
Yep. :) |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
whereas entities would be much larger, to fit all the properties needed |
| 17:52 |
Yad |
Yeah. |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
you can register up to 2^31 nodes |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
err |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
or 2^15 |
| 17:52 |
Yad |
So I would have to register a whole node definition for each possible texture, and change what node is at the position, rather than the properties of the node. |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
it's 2^15 = 32768 |
| 17:52 |
rubenwardy |
yeah exactly |
| 17:53 |
rubenwardy |
some nodes are already registered by the engine, such as air and ignore |
| 17:53 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> minus builtin nodes |
| 17:54 |
Yad |
So we sacrifice simplicity in node definitions (in other words, we cause the need for many, many nodes to be defined, each with subtle variations) in order to gain simplicity in the world database. |
| 17:55 |
Yad |
This puts my mind onto thinking about how to iterate the registering of node definitions using for loops, etc. :) |
| 17:56 |
Yad |
Oooh, and another option would be to treat the texture as an animation with frame-rate zero? |
| 17:56 |
Yad |
(And then advance the frame in on_rightclick etc.) |
| 17:56 |
MTDiscord |
<SX> also some node like things been done with entities or combinations of simple node and entity |
| 17:57 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, for example you can make a river mill by having a spinning entity |
| 17:57 |
rubenwardy |
*watermill |
| 17:59 |
Yad |
rubenwardy: Are attachments considered nodes, entities, or something else? As in ObjectRef's set_attach(parent) |
| 17:59 |
rubenwardy |
you can only attach to another object |
| 17:59 |
rubenwardy |
(an object is either a player or an entity) |
| 17:59 |
rubenwardy |
Nodes don't move |
| 17:59 |
rubenwardy |
so you can just place an entity in the right place and leave it there |
| 18:00 |
Yad |
rubenwardy: Ah thank you! So "object" is the superset of "player" and "entity." Got it. :D |
| 18:01 |
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| 18:03 |
Krock |
!mod basic_mater |
| 18:03 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: Basic Materials [basic_materials] by VanessaE - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21000 - https://github.com/mt-mods/basic_materials |
| 18:16 |
Yad |
This is such a great article https://dev.minetest.net/List_of_hardcoded_features |
| 18:17 |
Yad |
And it addresses a question which has been on my mind: the color of light. |
| 18:17 |
Yad |
"This does not refer to colored lamps" does that mean the color of the lamp texture can be anything, but the light as it interacts with other surfaces, will be white? |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
correct |
| 18:18 |
Yad |
redquasar: :) |
| 18:18 |
Yad |
* rubenwardy :) |
| 18:20 |
Yad |
Would I be correct to say there is currently no way to force a player's camera into third-person and/or first-person? |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> look at invector |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> there is no proper camera api however |
| 18:31 |
Yad |
Jonathon: Thank you, I had viewed the list Game Jam list but hadn't noticed this! :) |
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| 18:52 |
Yad |
Fascinating technique...I've played a number of laps on the track, and I'm thinking: Invector is using an entity positioned in front of the camera, to create the impression that I am in third-person perspective? |
| 19:11 |
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| 19:23 |
Yad |
I'm about to study Loria because it changes the magnitude of gravity relative to position. |
| 19:27 |
Yad |
Ahh, so it's the set_physics_override(override_table) function. But gravity can only be in a single vector? (up or down, but always vertical?) |
| 19:28 |
Krock |
Yad: you can specify negative gravity.. but the physics engine won't be happy about that to say the least |
| 19:28 |
Krock |
and yes. scalars only. |
| 19:29 |
Yad |
Krock: ahh, thank you |
| 19:29 |
Yad |
Krock: I wonder if I could simulate other vectors of gravity using some other force applicator? |
| 19:30 |
Yad |
Krock: For example, if I wanted to make a small space station around a quantum singularity (black hole), and have players be pulled toward the center when walking on the outside shell. |
| 19:30 |
Krock |
that'll be kinda difficult with the API we currently have |
| 19:31 |
Krock |
there's always the possibility to attach the player to some invisible object... but that's far from ideal |
| 19:31 |
Krock |
alternatively, consider finite decimal small punches using the punch_player (or so?) function |
| 19:31 |
Yad |
Krock: I would imagine it might be difficult with the current API, yeah...I was imagining something like calculate_knockback |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
or was it add_velocity() on a player? Lua API knows. |
| 19:32 |
Yad |
Krock: I'm looking. ^^ |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
yes. knockback is the way. |
| 19:32 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> As Krock said, you'd be attaching the player to an entity. Entities can have arbitrary acceleration and might as well be pulled towards black holes. |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
which then results in very jittery gameplay |
| 19:33 |
Yad |
Krock: the knockback or the attachment to an entity? |
| 19:34 |
Krock |
well, both. advantage of knockback is that players can still move freely during the server steps |
| 19:34 |
Krock |
hence movement will be a lot more responsive compared to fixed ones (attachment) |
| 19:35 |
Yad |
Krock: About add_velocity(), yes that appears to be the correct name. I notice lua_api.txt also says "free_Does not apply during free_move." |
| 19:36 |
Pexin |
too bad the engine does not support arbitrary "ground" orientation |
| 19:36 |
Krock |
free move to free move. seems logical. |
| 19:36 |
Yad |
Pexin: Precisely. |
| 19:36 |
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| 19:37 |
Yad |
Pexin: As I desire to stack multiple planes of existence in the same Minetest world, I need localized gravity. |
| 19:37 |
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| 19:37 |
Yad |
We do have enough address space to render the entire surface of Earth in a Minetest world, it's simply stacked into a cube. :) |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Krock: you better resume your work on camera roll |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> please |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I need it |
| 19:38 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> c55 had camera roll forever ago, theres a yt video for it if i recall correctly |
| 19:39 |
Krock |
well. modders will complain if it's applied to everything, so it'll be yet another opt-in feature |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> of course! |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I just want to make a 3d aerial combat game |
| 19:39 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeTjR5-IabY |
| 19:40 |
Pexin |
I want, as a player, to be able to program aerial robot fighters |
| 19:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> probably second best c55 video behind the minetest promotional video |
| 19:40 |
Pexin |
whooosh |
| 19:41 |
Yad |
luatic: That would be fun in a voxel world because crashes could leave craters, etc. :) |
| 19:41 |
Yad |
Pexin: hehehe |
| 19:41 |
mazes_83 |
lot of mods from vanessaE moved to mt-mods ? |
| 19:41 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> yeah, she stepped down from minetest |
| 19:42 |
celeron55 |
i think the concept in that video is still valid; it would need a concept review by another core dev, a rebase and a security review though |
| 19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> they all moved, a few of the texturepacks went to a few different github repos, others never found new homes |
| 19:42 |
Yad |
celeron55: This video is quite impressive! |
| 19:42 |
mazes_83 |
ok then I should update my refs in reps and update script |
| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> coughs in mt-mods > minetest-mods |
| 19:43 |
Yad |
celeron55: It's a fork of Minetest you've made? |
| 19:43 |
celeron55 |
i didn't even add the music, the music literally just started playing from a playlist and i felt like flying to it in real time. it's an improvizational art piece! |
| 19:43 |
mazes_83 |
sad to hear pipeworks authors is out |
| 19:43 |
celeron55 |
Yad: the ancient branch on github is linked in the description, i guess i got busy with something else right after |
| 19:44 |
Yad |
celeron55: Hahaha, lovely! And I noticed the thin clouds, which got me to look at the date of publication ;) |
| 19:45 |
Krock |
._. camera rotation is not kept in camera.cpp but in game.cpp |
| 19:45 |
Pexin |
pff ecco the dolphin |
| 19:46 |
celeron55 |
anyway, that video didn't gain much attention back then, i guess modders were already puzzled enough by whatever apis were available back then |
| 19:46 |
Pexin |
is it problematic that sometimes you want the camera orientation to match the player ori, but sometimes not? |
| 19:47 |
celeron55 |
well... there are many comments to the video though |
| 19:48 |
celeron55 |
in current terminology it uses a form of very limited SSCSM which tends to terrify everyone |
| 19:48 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Interesting, didn't know you did this c55. I'll have to look at that branch, as the goal was for us to someday allow some form of SSCSM to allow arbitrary client side physics and prediction (and camera control, for that matter) |
| 19:48 |
celeron55 |
i made it before CSM existed so it uses none of the current implementations |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> The current expectation is that all SSCSM would come with (1) a warning that the server is sending you executable code, and (2) the ability to literally view the code before it executes, if you so wish |
| 19:49 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> but, I'm glad to know you already tried/supported that at one time |
| 19:49 |
celeron55 |
there's not a lot of overlap though, current CSM focuses on completely different things |
| 19:50 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> yeah, the idea would be to expand what's possible with CSM |
| 19:50 |
Yad |
This discussion reminds me of Rigidbody Physics API from April of this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chUy6uqWrOI |
| 19:50 |
celeron55 |
how i would design it is anything coming from the server wouldn't run in the current CSM environment |
| 19:51 |
celeron55 |
it should use a different very restricted lua environment, just like what i used in that video |
| 19:51 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> fair, I was thinking the server sends you a single lua file, that only has access to physics calculations |
| 19:51 |
celeron55 |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/compare/297546af3d3b5b3a07a61ade041ad7c26e9a531d..1f4ca9df4219768d7678ccccd5e6ceba720e2930 |
| 19:52 |
celeron55 |
look at the lua files there to see how it's used |
| 19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> basically, current enitity X,Y,Z, velocity, nearby collision boxes, and possible a paramtype kind of value that is passed in from the server |
| 19:52 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> ha, okay yeah exact same idea then |
| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> I'll see if that can be brought back to life soon enough. |
| 19:54 |
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| 20:02 |
Yad |
exe_virus: I'm appreciating all of these thoughts. :) |
| 20:34 |
definitelya |
I feel kinda bad I didn't manage to review all or most of the Game Jam minigames. |
| 20:35 |
definitelya |
It was just a bit overwhelming, all those games. ^^' sorryyy |
| 20:37 |
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| 20:45 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Theres still some time to review; the end date is inclusive, and im not going to disqualify reviews that happen on Dec 31st |
| 20:46 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> Hey no worries, and besides you should try Little Lady ;) |
| 20:48 |
definitelya |
Okay nice, yes I made sure to thumb up reviews in games where I didn't post one of mine, but if there's more time I will. |
| 20:48 |
definitelya |
exe_virus: yeah! |
| 20:50 |
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| 20:54 |
Yad |
When using minetest.register_entity() am I required to wrap the list of default properties in a list called initital_properties? It doesn't mention that in lua_api.txt but Dokimi used it in making Exile. |
| 20:55 |
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| 20:55 |
MinetestBot |
[git] v-rob -> minetest/minetest: Improve TTF support for pixel-style fonts (#11848) 4a16ab3 https://git.io/Jy9Tu (2021-12-30T20:54:21Z) |
| 20:55 |
MinetestBot |
[git] v-rob -> minetest/minetest: Add padding[] element to formspecs (#11821) 544b9d5 https://git.io/Jy9Tz (2021-12-30T20:54:47Z) |
| 20:56 |
appguru |
it does mention it in lua_api.txt |
| 20:57 |
calcul0n_ |
yes here : https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/definition-tables/#entity-definition |
| 20:58 |
Yad |
appguru calcul0n_ Oh, strange I couldn't find it the first time, I do see it now, thank you! :D |
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| 21:09 |
Yad |
Does the register_entity function fail silently? I get no error, yet when I use /giveme it shows "Cannot give an unknown item" |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Entities aren't items |
| 21:11 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> You spawn entities using /spawnentity |
| 21:11 |
Yad |
luatic Oh, yes thank you! |
| 21:12 |
Yad |
luatic: now that you mention it, I suppose all those Minetest games where you get eggs and such, those are items which can be used to spawn the entity when used, rather than entities themselves? |
| 21:12 |
MCL |
Correct |
| 21:12 |
celeron55 |
it would be a bit weird for the engine to have a concept of an egg |
| 21:13 |
celeron55 |
not that it doesn't have a lot of weird things, but that's a weird thing it *doesn't* have |
| 21:14 |
celeron55 |
so, make your own egg, basically |
| 21:17 |
Yad |
celeron55: Understood. ^^b |
| 21:17 |
Yad |
What does it mean when the entity appears as a tiny pink cube with some black? It looks like it's trying to say invalid mesh? |
| 21:18 |
Yad |
(I'm using the Minetest-recommended B3D exporter for Blender.) |
| 21:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> oof |
| 21:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well, make sure you're exporting normals |
| 21:19 |
Yad |
luatic: I'm happy to use some other mesh format, I just thought I had to use B3D. I remember there was a nice human-readable one (ASCII encoded) but I wasn't sure if Minetest could handle any. |
| 21:20 |
appguru |
Minetest supports Wavefront OBJ |
| 21:20 |
appguru |
That's the ASCII-encoded one |
| 21:20 |
appguru |
If you want animations though, you'll have to use B3D or .x |
| 21:20 |
Yad |
appguru: Ooh, that would be so much better! Yeah, I'm thinking I might try to write the animations in Lua. |
| 21:21 |
appguru |
Animations in Lua are limited to an object level. You can change position, scale, rotation and attachments. It is powerful. |
| 21:22 |
Yad |
appguru: yes it looks very powerful, if I define bones in the Lua rather than Blender. |
| 21:23 |
appguru |
You can't define bones in Lua I'm afraid. |
| 21:23 |
appguru |
If you want bones, you will have to use B3D or .x |
| 21:25 |
Yad |
appguru: Hmm, the Lua API literally uses the term "bone" though, does it not? |
| 21:25 |
appguru |
set_bone_position only works on bones that are defined in the model file |
| 21:25 |
appguru |
you can only change bones |
| 21:25 |
Yad |
appguru: Ohhh! |
| 21:26 |
Yad |
appguru: I'm glad I asked before trying to make that work. :) |
| 21:29 |
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| 21:33 |
Yad |
Is there any way to get the index of the biome at a given position? |
| 21:34 |
Yad |
(given the Perlin noise seed of the current world and all that) |
| 21:34 |
Yad |
I'm thinking in terms of creating transitions between biome borders (e.g. tundra vs. desert, the snow melting near the edge of the tundra) |
| 21:35 |
appguru |
There are ways, but you have to reimplement engine functionality AFAIK |
| 21:35 |
Yad |
appguru: I imagine I'll be getting to that. >:D |
| 21:46 |
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| 21:48 |
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| 21:55 |
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| 22:01 |
MCL |
celeron55: What's in your YouTube profile picture? |
| 22:01 |
MCL |
Like where is the picture from? |
| 22:05 |
celeron55 |
i don't even know, it's just my google account |
| 22:06 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> lets find out |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
i don't know where the image is from, i don't have permission to use it, but it's easily recognizable and i like it |
| 22:07 |
celeron55 |
the perks of not running a business is you don't always have to care |
| 22:13 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> Its a frame of the character Marjane Satrapi from the 2007 film "Persepolis" |
| 22:14 |
Yad |
appguru luatic: I found the problem with the B3D exporter -- it appears to only export the previously saved version of the Blender file. :D |
| 22:14 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> appguru has an exporter? |
| 22:15 |
appguru |
I have an experimental one as part of modlib hehe, but that's not released (or working) yet |
| 22:15 |
appguru |
Yad is referring to your exporter I assume |
| 22:15 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> sounds like it |
| 22:15 |
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| 22:15 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> but that issue sounds like user error unless youre running 3.0, which the exporter does not support |
| 22:20 |
Yad |
appguru: You are correct https://github.com/GreenXenith/io_scene_b3d |
| 22:20 |
Yad |
It's an honor to finally meet (in text) all these people who's work I've been admiring for over two years. ^^ |
| 22:20 |
Yad |
*whose |
| 22:29 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> erlehmann did u see my msg? |
| 22:30 |
erlehmann |
j45 yes could you give me the link again? |
| 22:30 |
MinetestBot |
erlehmann: Dec-30 17:14 UTC <MTDiscord> just wanted to let u know that i made the chat logger simpler to use and the code is now readable |
| 22:31 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> https://github.com/Minetest-j45/mt_chat_logger |
| 22:32 |
MTDiscord |
<j45> ^ himbeer helped me out a bunch btw |
| 22:41 |
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| 22:56 |
Yad |
Interesting...I have to use visual_size = {x = 10, y = 10} to get register_entity to use 1:1 vs. B3D models exported from Blender? |
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| 23:00 |
celeron55 |
yeah that's a... "feature" |
| 23:04 |
Yad |
celeron55: So the default scale is 1 m in Blender = 0.1 m in Minetest? |
| 23:05 |
v-rob |
That's how it goes. It's annoying BS to deal with. |
| 23:05 |
* v-rob |
snickers at development joke |
| 23:06 |
Yad |
v-rob: I don't mind. I just needed a definitive notion of what the scale is. :) |
| 23:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> node meshs and entity meshs are different |
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