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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-06-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:31 entuland as long as you can get your hands on the proper landline to perform the extraction, that is
00:41 MTDiscord <Jonathon> heh
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08:43 independent56 hello.
08:44 independent56 my world almost died. first i made a huge block of tn and ignited it. i tried removing it with deleteblocks, but the next mornign, lerge parts of spawn died. i deleted blocks by "pos" in the database. it must be chunk id... but luckly i had an untampered database. everything is fine.
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09:06 independent56 i belive that homedeor should be made more interactive - flushing toilets, fillable baths, usable pans.
09:09 sfan5 decor is short for decoration ;)
09:09 independent56 oh
09:09 independent56 ;_;
09:10 independent56 might as well make a fork called "homemod". with all the interactivity you need
09:10 Noclip[m] Most importantly flushing toilets of course!
09:11 Noclip[m] How can a game be good without having flushing toilets here and there?
09:12 independent56 yes! i mean, are we going to let our waste just sit there?!
09:13 Noclip[m] So you also plan to add "generating toilet waste" into the game?
09:14 thmh I'd just flush my leftovers from cooking, and end up with a clogged toilet
09:15 Noclip[m] Please name your mod "Toilet simulator" then xD
09:15 independent56 no... it will be developed with eevrything else. the stove is not a furnace. it only cooks group:food
09:16 independent56 but yeah... every now and then you are teleported to the toilet, loud fart noises are played, you have to flush, then it teleports you back.
09:21 Noclip[m] independent56: You're currently falling into a lava sea. Just before you touch it: Game teleports you onto a toilet, some farting sounds appear, you flush the toilet, game teleports you back to the lava and you die. Awesome!
09:22 independent56 XD
09:22 independent56 deadly poo!
09:22 independent56 wait how reove irc message? /j
09:24 Noclip[m] Or you just stay onto the toilet forever because you don't want to get teleported back to the lava.
09:25 Noclip[m] <independent56 "wait how reove irc message? /j"> As far as I know you can't delete messages on irc.
09:25 independent56 i know, i was joking
09:25 Noclip[m] Ah, that's what the /j was meant for?
09:27 independent56 yes
09:28 independent56 make alt > build over lava sea > finish pooping on main account > get teleported onto water
09:29 Noclip[m] cheater xD
09:30 independent56 Ingara game without cheats is a bad game
09:30 independent56 quote
09:31 Noclip[m] "a game without cheats is a bad game"
09:31 Noclip[m] Try nodecore then
09:31 independent56 lol
09:31 independent56 i hate that game, too hard
09:32 Noclip[m] Cheating will probably just make it 10% easier :D
09:34 independent56 XD
09:35 Noclip[m] Minecraft: destroy stone with fist
09:35 Noclip[m] Nodecore: destroy fist with grass
09:51 independent56 real life: where are my shoes???
09:51 independent56 real life: fuck it, i will go out in socks... ugh mud!
09:54 Noclip[m] <independent56 "real life: fuck it, i will go ou"> Sounds painfull ...
09:54 independent56 lol
09:55 Noclip[m] Maybe not for the first 5 minutes but try doing that a whole day.
09:55 Noclip[m] I think you aren't even allowed to drive a car without shoes.
09:55 Noclip[m] At least not where I live.
09:56 independent56 yeah... i prefer barefoot. and im not allowed to drive a car with or without socks (im 14)
09:59 Noclip[m] Mhh, I'm totally not used to walk around without shoes. I usually wear slippers at home.
10:00 independent56 me too
10:02 Noclip[m] What's your opinion about walking on (big) stones barefoot? Do you prefer that, too?
10:03 independent56 i prefer it to walking on pebbles. pebbles are the devil on feet
10:03 independent56 as long as "big" means >20 cm.
10:04 Noclip[m] Big mainly meant bigger than sand xD
10:08 independent56 oh
10:08 independent56 i thought you meant boulders, the type used in shore protection
11:03 independent56 i literally spent 43 minutes of my life griefing a copy of my world... why am i such a machoist?
11:04 MTDiscord <MNH48> I think you meant 'masochist'
11:04 Noclip[m] independent56: When I was your age I just did the same but with Minecraft.
11:05 independent56 lol
11:05 independent56 im gonna keep this world, and on april fools, put it on >:-> "where did all ym buildings go"
11:05 Noclip[m] And compared to what I did 43 minutes is really not much!
11:05 independent56 "SPAWN WAS GREIFED HELP PLS"
11:05 independent56 "lava everywhere"
11:06 independent56 then on the second of april, i will upload the griefing video.
11:08 Noclip[m] <independent56 "im gonna keep this world, and on"> One or two years ago I "reorganized" a friends server on 1. april xD
11:08 Noclip[m] (Together with another friend.)
11:09 independent56 lol.. on april, as the peak of players join, i shutdown the server by simulating a failure (turning off the wifi on the webbook), backup the world, and start greifing. players come back on, and they see me griefing everywhere >:->
11:10 independent56 then i restore the backup after making players cry
11:11 Noclip[m] Well we didn't really "grief" our friends world.
11:11 Noclip[m] It was more like a big "reorganization" ...
11:13 Noclip[m] For example we replaced a mountain's dirt with netherrack. (was a Minecraft server)
11:14 independent56 lol
11:14 Noclip[m] And we "moved" half a forest from outside the citiy into the city.
11:14 independent56 /replace default:dirt default:netherrack
11:14 independent56 XD
11:14 independent56 ~ //move x 200
11:14 Noclip[m] <independent56 "/replace default:dirt default:ne"> No no no, we did all of that by hand in survival mode!
11:14 independent56 0_0
11:14 independent56 use worldedit!
11:15 Noclip[m] We didn't had any special privs xD
11:16 independent56 i thought minecraft didnt have a priv system, and it was just "player gets worldedit creative mode" or "player gets worldedit survival mode"
11:19 Noclip[m] independent56: Without mods/plugins minecraft has normal players and admins. We were both normal players.
11:20 independent56 hmm
11:24 Noclip[m] Also it was a lot of fun doing that by hand xD
11:24 independent56 i remember when i was a noob, i didnt know about the priv system. i was like "why not can i fly?". but now wheneve ri start a world, i do /grantme all. it works.
11:25 Noclip[m] Unfortunately that friend never talked with us about the server after that ...
11:26 Noclip[m] The friend just behaved as if the server never existed.
11:26 independent56 XD
11:28 independent56 i'll never have this problem because i have no friends.
11:30 Noclip[m] Ohhh
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14:14 independent56 i need to automagically kill people if they reach a certain y co-ordinate. is there an easy way to do that? i am making a singlenode map, wher eyou are not allowed to suicide jump,
14:19 Noclip[m] If suicide jump isn't allowed you should make it kill them?!
14:21 independent56 XD if you jamp, oyu would be falling forever
14:21 independent56 its singlenode
14:21 sfan5 http://sprunge.us/9GVYbm?lua
14:22 independent56 thx
14:22 sfan5 killing isn't instant but it sounds like that's okay for your usecase
14:22 independent56 thx
14:27 independent56 its amazing. it starts at y=-100, and then players die at -250. all within 10 seconds of falling.
14:29 independent56 wifi is going :-/
14:29 Noclip[m] independent56: And just before they die they get teleported onto the toilet xD
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14:56 specing_ Has there been a discussion somewhere about move from freenode to libera?
14:58 Noclip[m] What? You are currently on libera!
14:59 specing_ I know
14:59 specing_ I just wanted to know if this was discussed somewhere. I can't see anything on the forums
14:59 thmh specing_: have you checked the logs? https://irc.minetest.net/minetest/
15:01 celeron55 frankly the need to move from freenode to libera was so obvious it didn't need much discussion
15:01 specing_ I wish abandoning Github and Discord was also so obvious
15:01 thmh ^
15:02 specing_ Which I pointed out back when #minetest was still on Freenode, but of course some proprietary networks are fine, while Leenode is not
15:02 specing_ Obvious?
15:02 celeron55 you don't need to be on discord
15:02 thmh specing_: tbf, freenode is still bridged, so it's no different with discord.
15:03 specing_ thmh: yes, but I'm pointing out that the move to Libera is not as obvious as you say it was
15:03 celeron55 our tactic in this mess is to bridge everything, it's our best bet to try to keep the community together
15:03 celeron55 not being on something would just make more separate communities, people don't leave discord if MT isn't officially there
15:05 specing_ thmh: and freenode is not bridged
15:06 celeron55 i've yet to see a proposal of a github replacement that has all the features we need, isn't proprietary and doesn't come with a huge hosting and/or development burden
15:06 celeron55 so get to work
15:06 specing_ salsa.debian.org
15:08 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> Freenode is practically burning itself down, I think its pretty obvious.
15:11 celeron55 specing_: that's the most reasonable proposal so far
15:11 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Celeron55, any plan to update the certificate for dev.minetest.net?
15:14 MTDiscord <Jordach> c55: unfortunately because it's debian i don't think it'll get patched outside of once or twice a year
15:14 celeron55 ehm... well it's on my todo list
15:14 MTDiscord <Jordach> </sarcasm>
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15:16 specing_ Benrob0329 Discord is already a heap of rubble
15:17 specing_ https://sneak.berlin/20200220/discord-is-not-an-acceptable-choice-for-free-software-projects/
15:17 celeron55 discord is completely out of question for a primary network for MT, you don't need to worry about that
15:18 specing_ It should be out of the question as a secondary one as well
15:18 specing_ Or tertiary.. or anything, really
15:18 celeron55 it was unofficially created and persisted for years
15:18 celeron55 there's no way for us to stop it
15:18 specing_ also celeron55  https://git.sdf.org/humanacollaborator/humanacollabora/src/branch/master/forge_comparison.md
15:19 celeron55 denying its existence just makes us look stupid and divides the community
15:19 celeron55 and limits contributions
15:20 specing_ sr.ht probably also has feature parity
15:20 specing_ You don't have to deny it's existance. You can ask people to use either Matrix or IRC or XMPP or ....
15:20 specing_ And that they are on their own if they use discord
15:20 specing_ (And also terminate the bridge to here)
15:21 celeron55 sourcehut doesn't seem like something that's necessarily very long lived
15:21 sfan5 sourcehut is probably one of the better ones in that list
15:21 sfan5 https://git.sdf.org/humanacollaborator/humanacollabora/src/branch/master/github.md this page is funny
15:22 celeron55 who runs sourcehut? and since when?
15:22 specing_ Drew Devault (ddevault on irc)
15:22 sfan5 drew devault, a few years iirc
15:23 sfan5 first point on that page: a survey shows people don't report bugs when there is no other option, the survey: n=34, conducted in a niche community on mastodon
15:24 sfan5 then later the page somehow brings climate into this (?!)
15:24 sfan5 also various points about Microsoft being bad for human rights and democracy, while the list you first linked lists gitee.com (Chinese) as an alternative that ticks all boxes
15:26 specing_ sfan5: that's true on N=1, as I have been boycotting GitHub for years now
15:26 sfan5 the second point of being tor-hostile is misinterpreted/bogus by the way; sign ins from a new location have been emailing you verify code for a while
15:26 specing_ My only contribution is to pipeworks on gitlab.com (which is also proprietary, but they get somewhat of a pass for maintaining gitlabCE)
15:27 specing_ All I can do for minetest is develop client-side mods
15:28 celeron55 the obvious better alternative to github is going to come eventually. anyway, i do trust the debian project and gitlab does have quite some features, which makes it reasonable even without looking at any comparisons
15:28 celeron55 i mean, which makes debian salsa reasonable
15:28 sfan5 I thought that was only for debian maintainers and projects
15:29 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> I hope the CSM API that is not controllable server side stays as it is honestly
15:29 celeron55 specing_: they seem to be open to any open source projects that are packageable for debian
15:29 celeron55 sfan5*
15:29 sfan5 ah
15:29 sfan5 anyway last thing to my previous point: needless to say I cannot take that list of hosters without ethical issues seriously
15:29 celeron55 anyway, the question then, as we need developers, not politicians, is, how many developers would we gain vs. lose by switching from github to salsa.debian.org
15:30 specing_ celeron55: I know that you do partially use GitLab, as the Minetest repo has .gitlab-ci.yml in it (which works on my fork)
15:30 specing_ IhrFussel I've extended it somewhat, but plan to eventually rebase on dfc/ws
15:32 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> If the client decides to connect o a certain server it should obey what the server wants to an extent where the INTENDED gameplay doesn't get altered client side
15:33 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Any pure CSM that could be used to give you an unfair advantage over others that don't use the CSM on the server should be forbidden...that's my stance
15:34 MTDiscord <Jordach> nerzhul wrote that not c55 specing_
15:34 MTDiscord <Jordach> and quit the zealotry
15:35 MTDiscord <Jordach> that shits old as fuck and cringy
15:35 MTDiscord <Jordach> a shit stain no amount of scrubbing can remove
15:35 specing_ What
15:35 MTDiscord <Jordach> gitlab-ci is from nerzhul
15:35 MTDiscord <Jordach> FOSS zealotry is boring and outdated
15:36 sfan5 wut
15:36 sfan5 the gitlab ci script is acticely maintained
15:36 sfan5 as is the mirror on gitlab
15:36 MTDiscord <Jordach> > (And also terminate the bridge to here)
15:37 specing_ Jordach are you an official representative of Discord, Inc?
15:37 MTDiscord <Jordach> no
15:37 specing_ Because you definetely sound like one
15:37 MTDiscord <Jordach> somebody who cares more about users freedom than have it revoked by an unelected twat
15:37 MTDiscord <Jordach> free to use whatever they want
15:37 MTDiscord <Jordach> ethical or not
15:38 specing_ IhrFussel  My stance is that it is up to players to decide whether they want to respect rules or not (and get banned). I do not plan to restrict technical capabilities just because some of it might be used for cheating. Your stance (that is shared with many server owners) is holding back technical progress and that is bad.
15:42 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Banning would be an option if you could DETECT CSMs that violate rules server side, but if you don't plan to let servers know what the client is doing exactly on its own your point is moot
15:44 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> It would also be somewhat unfair to not include such a feature since server-sent CSMs will definitely have that (a prompt that lets the user decide whether or not they want to connect to that server and runs its client mods)
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15:45 specing_ Well, you can. You just don't have it implemented and are blindly trusting the client. This is a bug in the server (or a feature?) and a not a client-side problem.
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15:49 Noclip[m] <celeron55 "frankly the need to move from fr"> xD
15:49 Noclip[m] freenode just fell apart in just a few days ...
15:49 Noclip[m] celeron55: Did you close the freenode room or did freenode do that "for you"?
15:49 Noclip[m] <MTDiscord "<Benrob0329> Freenode is practic"> Jup
15:49 Noclip[m] xD
15:49 Noclip[m] Jordach: Debian's release cycle isn't that fast xD
15:49 Noclip[m] was kicked by ShadowBot: Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.
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15:49 Noclip[m] Did I miss something? Which technical capabilities are we talking about here? specing_
15:49 Noclip[m] was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected.
15:50 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Well there are the csm_restriction_flags but the client needs to be honest for those to work
15:51 sfan5 ShadowBot: 🤔
15:51 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> And someone who wants to give the client more control over server gameplay could easily "forget" those
15:55 specing_ IhrFussel the restriction flags only tell the client to restrict the currently very limited API
15:57 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> The end result is the same...the server can tell the client whatever it wants if the client weighs client control over server control and just ignores any restriction flags
15:59 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Now I don't claim that your fork does ignore such flags but it would be super easy to do that
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16:20 Noclip[m] Ehh: "ShadowBot has kicked this user from #minetest (Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.)"
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16:21 independent56 could you guys not chat so much? it is a pain to read the logs. /j
16:21 Noclip[m] Is that a bug?
16:22 sfan5 Noclip[m]: no idea why it did that tbh
16:22 rubenwardy independent56: you don't have to read all the logs :D
16:22 independent56 XD
16:22 rubenwardy also, bouncers are useful
16:22 independent56 just the onces from when i left
16:22 independent56 "bouncers" rubenwardy please explain.
16:22 Noclip[m] <rubenwardy "independent56: you don't have to"> xD
16:23 Noclip[m] <rubenwardy "also, bouncers are useful"> Or just use matrix that is it's own bouncer.
16:23 independent56 Noclip[m], "independent56: you don't have to"> xD
16:23 rubenwardy A bouncer is a piece of software used to have rollback logs on IRC
16:23 independent56 where it cuts off is halarious
16:23 rubenwardy yeah, you could also use matrix
16:23 rubenwardy rollback logs is when you connect to a chat software, and see the messages whilst you were away
16:24 rubenwardy ZNC is a popular bouncer that works with any IRC client
16:24 Noclip[m] <sfan5 "Noclip: no idea why it did that "> Would it ban me the next time?
16:24 rubenwardy I use Quassel, which has a builtin bouncer-like software called Quassel-Core. It works well with multiple IRC clients
16:24 rubenwardy but Matrix has this functionality builtin as well
16:25 Noclip[m] But you need to self-host bouncers. In case of matrix your homeserver does that for you ...
16:27 rubenwardy yeah that's one benefix
16:35 independent56 why do i need a bouncer when logger56 exists?
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16:38 Noclip[m] independent56: You don't need to. If reading the logs isn't an issue for you than just go with that.
16:38 independent56 lol yeah
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16:49 independent56 Noclip[m], "independent56: you don't have to"> xD i love how this cut-off quote just completely captures me XD
16:52 Noclip[m] Yea, brided answers are a bit confusing.
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17:13 specing Noclip[m]: technical capabilities as in client-side wielded light and other things that could be offloaded from the server
17:16 specing IhrFussel the client should always value client control over server control, because the client is ultimately running on player's machine and not on the server.
17:18 specing IhrFussel and in any case, the cat is already out of the box. Players can already download a client that respects their preferences above that of the server
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17:43 independent56 /join ##geeks
17:43 independent56 wait wait
17:43 independent56 etf
17:48 independent56 hey
17:48 independent56 (i was testing whether i was still dmming nickserv)
17:52 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: fontengine: Fix crash loading PNG/XML fonts from paths without dot e15cae9 https://git.io/JGu1j (2021-06-01T17:47:41Z)
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18:11 independent56 is there a worldedit command to update blocks? "//update"? if i worldedit lava, it wont flow. if i move becons, they wont shine. they need to be pdated.
18:15 SoniEx2 any plans to support TLS?
18:19 SoniEx2 (or DTLS as may be the case)
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18:23 Noclip[m] <independent56 " /join ##geeks"> !join #guix
18:24 independent56 !join ##geeks
18:24 independent56 nope
18:24 independent56 irc hates me
18:24 rubenwardy /join ##geeks
18:24 rubenwardy with no space before
18:24 rubenwardy you can also just click the channel name, usually
18:25 independent56 yay haha i am stupid
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21:03 MTDiscord <AntumDeluge> If I need to add some custom linker flags, do I just append to CMAKE_CXX_STANDARD_LIBRARIES/CMAKE_C_STANDARD_LIBRARIES? Or is there a different option I should use?
21:03 sfan5 cmake_exe_linker_flags
21:03 sfan5 (but uppercase)
21:03 MTDiscord <AntumDeluge> Okay, I see it. Thank you sfan5.
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