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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-05-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:15 ungali is there an active #minetest there?
00:15 MTDiscord <entuland> there is
00:16 ungali might as well take the jump now
00:16 cheapie ungali: There is, yes.
00:16 ungali it
00:17 ungali s a shame though
00:17 MTDiscord <entuland> the cycle of things ūüėĄ
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00:45 MTDiscord <Jonathon> shame libera doesnt bridge to matrix (that i know of)
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03:02 specing Would be nice if we also lost the discord bridge in the process
03:10 Kimapr2 why? is the discord bridge bad?
03:11 cheapie specing: I mean... it doesn't seem to be there yet, so there's still hope :P
03:11 MTDiscord <Kimapr> the discord bridge is here
03:15 specing Discord is a proprietary chat network, so it would be hilarious if Minetest were to keep bridging to it after migrating to libera chat because freenode became proprietary
03:17 specing And, it is also funny that all these projects (Minetest included?) that depend on GitHub, a proprietary closed-source social coding network, are migrating to libera chat
03:17 specing My face is red from all the facepalming
03:20 epoch where the like button in this IRC thing?
03:20 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Apparently freenode became "proprietary" back in 2017 and people just managed to keep it subtle up until lately.
03:28 Quiark specing: now consider all those cryptocurrency projects that have big mouths about "decentralisation" and then use Medium, Telegram and/or Discord
03:31 specing yes, hypocrisy all around
03:31 specing Minetest is not free software
03:31 specing Minetest is free software in license only.
03:31 specing the spirit is dead
03:31 specing if there ever was a spirit, but probably not.
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03:50 Quiark I don't blame people for not having time to work for free on something
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04:24 MTDiscord <Jordach> Quiark: >not mentioniung signal
04:24 Quiark No signal never claimed anything about decentralisation
04:25 Quiark But a lot of people are projecting that on them as if it was the solution to all problems.
04:26 MTDiscord <Jordach> shitpost: use iMessage for minetest communications
04:27 MTDiscord <Jordach> call me a madman but the FSF should've foresaw freenode getting rekt years ago
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04:53 sofar FSF isn't relevant for freenode
04:54 sofar and FSF is irrelevant nowadays almost anyway as well
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05:25 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> re: Discord bridge: 99% chance of staying
05:35 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> It's funny seeing people any non-Discord platform complain about Discord, and people on Discord complain about literally any other platform. Funny how people forget that it's ok to have different priorities than each other.
05:35 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> *people on
05:42 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> Personally, I want to move because I like the (previous) Freenode staff and feel that they will have the community's best interests in mind long-term.
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09:43 justcommenting > Would be nice if we also lost the discord bridge in the process
09:43 justcommenting we should actually add more bridge to more platform instead of losing any of existing bridge
09:43 justcommenting people should be allowed to use whatever platform they like and still be able to participate in the discussion
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09:43 justcommenting being all-elite and insisting on just one platform is not healthy at all, that's called 'segregration'
09:43 justcommenting not everyone would want to install IRC client just for one specific project when they already have other platform installed for all other projects
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19:52 Zander_200 hi
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21:05 benrob0329 test
21:06 BrBridge success!
21:06 BrBridge failure!
21:06 BrBridge well, one of the two
21:06 BrBridge No nicks, I'd think that would be a default settings but I suppose not
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21:13 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329>Test
21:13 benrob0329 Test2
21:13 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329>I forgot the space, but at least it works
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21:20 benrob0329 Is Libera giving anyone else trouble at the moment?
21:21 rubenwardy no?
21:21 benrob0329 hmm
21:21 benrob0329 Maybe the server near me is just having issues, or it's my network
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21:25 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> test
21:25 benrob0329 There we go
21:27 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Discord bridge ignores it (as expected, both should send notices) but I can always add the Discord to this bridge is GreenXenith wants it all to be homogeneous
21:27 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> *if
21:28 rubenwardy what is that?
21:28 benrob0329 Bridge to Libera, was suggested and approved by C55
21:29 benrob0329 (only approved by, was not suggested by C55)
21:30 benrob0329 https://irc.minetest.net/minetest-hub/2021-05-20#i_5821807
21:31 benrob0329 I haven't added -hub yet because I want to make sure this is working properly before tying it to an account and dealing with autovoice
21:33 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> oh, I thought it was for Discord, so it's bridging to the-other-place-that-shalt-not-be-mentioned? eheheh
21:34 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> For now, yes. I may add other official spaces to it as well in the near future but for now this is fine
21:34 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> cool
21:40 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> benrob0329: The Discord bridge doesnt ignore it, its just not bridged here yet
21:41 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> It's also down atm, dunno if that's intentional or not
21:41 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> It is not intentional, no..
21:42 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> Will the bridge you have work the same as the current bridge?
21:43 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> As in send messages to Discord via Webhooks? Yes.
21:43 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> its an intense of https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
21:43 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> Can it send to the 3 channels already?
21:44 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I don't have -hub added yet because I don't want to deal with autovoice right this sec, but yes
21:44 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I don't have staff anywhere on IRC anymore so I can't do that without someone like VE lending a hand
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21:47 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> a
21:47 GreenXenith b
21:47 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> c
21:47 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Fair enough
21:47 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> We can adjust it later, I dont have time or energy to work with this right now
21:48 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> It works and that's all that matters
21:51 MTDiscord <entuland> noice
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21:54 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> wow that was quite a delay ahahah
21:54 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> 2 minutes flat :P
21:54 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> aaaand we'll get people calling other people BrBridge in addition to MTDiscord :P
21:54 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> Now what happened
21:54 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> Is it just me or are both bridges choking
21:55 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> your messages went through instant to Discord on my end
21:55 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> Yeah, after a while
21:55 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> and mine as well just went through immediate now
21:55 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I think Libera is choking a bit
21:55 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> Cant imagine why :)
21:55 MTDiscord <entuland> yeah eheheh
21:55 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Definitely not because of the sudden rush of new people
21:55 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> maybe it was just a temp hiccup, now it's quick both ways
21:56 BrBridge <G‚ÄčreenXenith> Oh man I only just now noticed the <BrBridge> <MTDiscord> <entuland> ¬†this is getting out of hand, now there are 3 of them :D
21:56 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> :P
21:56 BrBridge <V‚ÄčanessaE> [05-20 17:56] <GreenXenith> Oh man I only just now noticed the <BrBridge> <MTDiscord> <entuland> ¬†this is getting out of hand, now there are 3 of them :D
21:56 BrBridge <V‚ÄčanessaE> now there are 6 ;)
21:57 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> yikes x)
21:57 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Apparently there's a draft IRCv3 RELAYMSG spec for spoofing nicks, dunno if Libera or Freenode supports it though
21:57 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> the discord one used to rename itself to match the sender on the other side
21:57 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> I guess that's not feasible here on IRC
21:57 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> It still does
21:57 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> You just have to be speaking from Freenode for it to do so atm
21:58 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> on Discord all the messages are sent as BrBridge on my end
21:58 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> ah sorry, I missed that bit
21:58 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Because BrBridge is the one bridging from Libera to Freenode
21:59 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> so anythingon Libera shows up on Freenode from BrBridge so MTDiscord displays it from BrBridge :]
21:59 MTDiscord <GreenXenith> Dont worry its totally not confusing at all
21:59 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> eheheh
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21:59 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> well, as lont as it doesn't loop it's already great :P
21:59 BrBridge <e‚Äčntuland> s/lont/long
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22:01 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Could be worse, I could be bridging joins/parts too :P
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22:02 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> there's a CTCP for spoofing nicks
22:02 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> (please don't use it)
22:04 MTDiscord <VanessaE> do like kaeza's hexchat script does for Minetest IRC bots:  <botname> <username>  blahblahblah  gets shortened to username@bot_abbreviation blahblah
22:04 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> https://github.com/SoniEx2/CTCP-S/blob/master/ctcp-s.md#forward
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22:04 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> (please don't use it. altho if you do, put it at the end of the message instead of the start.)
22:04 MTDiscord <VanessaE> er shortened to <username@bot_abbreviation> blahblah
22:05 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I'm hoping for either the RELAYMSG draft or the Display Name draft to become standard
22:05 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> client-only tags > CTCP
22:06 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> benrob0329: CTCP > waiting decades for server-side support
22:06 MTDiscord <VanessaE> for example, <KAYLRP@VEBL> How are you?    is how that person's chat looks coming from my Banananananananaland server
22:06 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> (also do either of those half-assed specs actually support nested bridges?)
22:08 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I mean, IRCv3 has gotten decent support for universally helpful things like SASLv3 and Capability Negotiation
22:09 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> yeah but it never goes far enough
22:09 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> there's no IRCv3 server-specific emoji for example
22:09 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I'd assume that a good bridge would see the intended nick and use that, so theoretically yes they'd support nested bridges
22:10 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> no that's bad
22:10 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> it should relay the whole chain
22:11 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Also, you're quick to call a draft spec you know nothing about half-assed and start complaining about the progress of something which has helped the state of things and is continuing to make progress
22:12 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I'd rather see IRCv3 fix the basics and make the spec consistent than do what Matrix did and focus on anything but
22:13 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> they keep ignoring real-life use-cases because those don't fit neatly in their model, rather than trying to make space for them
22:14 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> and there's also the whole "let's just keep sending passwords in plaintext to the server so the server can freely log it, and deprecate everything else while at it" issue
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22:18 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> What, and what? First, no, that's a generalization (and a poor one at that). Second, sure, but SASL supports other auth mechanisms nowadays too
22:19 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> (paraphrasing your own messages) "the draft spec doesn't contain provisions for relaying the whole relay chain with the message"
22:19 BrBridge <l‚Äčuk3yx> There is a channel for IRCv3 discussion, if you had any ideas maybe that'd be the place to send them?
22:20 BrBridge <e‚Äčrlehmann> this is bizarre
22:20 BrBridge <e‚Äčrlehmann> with the two bridges
22:20 BrBridge <e‚Äčrlehmann> <benrob0329> I'd rather see IRCv3 fix the basics and make the spec consistent than do what Matrix did and focus on anything but
22:20 BrBridge <e‚Äčrlehmann> lol
22:20 BrBridge <e‚Äčrlehmann> matrix is hilarious
22:20 BrBridge <e‚Äčrlehmann> matrix has these examples in the spec √Ę‚ā¨¬¶ that do not match the spec
22:21 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> also: if the "other auth mechanisms" are only EXTERNAL... ugh
22:21 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> (altho TLS-SRP with EXTERNAL wouldn't be half bad. but that's beside the point.)
22:22 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Send your ideas to #ircv3 then :P
22:24 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> But I don't think it's unreasonable to not directly support bridge-chaining, since bridge-chaining is a bit PITA and it's better to support most use cases sanely than every use case insanely. Anyways, I'mma drop this before the channel is completely flooded with offtopic chit-chat
22:28 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> "just use a stack .-."
22:38 BrBridge <V‚ÄčanessaE> benrob0329: ¬†"flooded with offtopic chit-chat" ¬†oh, like there's anything else going on in here? :P
22:38 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> anyway sure, if we can get unbanned from IRCv3 we'll propose RFC 7628 support :3
22:39 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Actually yeah, Oauth for IRC SASL sounds nice
22:41 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> VanessaE: That's a good point, I suppose there isn't any on-topic discussion going on right now
22:42 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> Also unrelated but kinda related, apparently doing a ctl-z followed by running `bg` lets you move a process to the background in bash
22:42 BrBridge <S‚Äčoni> yeah ctrl-z is awesome
22:43 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> I knew it was a thing but wasn't sure of the specifics and didn't want to inadvertently kill the bridge
22:45 BrBridge <L‚Äčone_Wolf> equivalent of `command & disown` but during runtime?
22:47 BrBridge <V‚ÄčanessaE> I usually nohup command &
22:48 BrBridge <b‚Äčenrob0329> VE: Well yes, but I didn't for testing initially and don't really care about logs in this case
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