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| 04:32 |
erlehmann |
<specing> Matrix is mess of javascript requiring a supercomputer to render text |
| 04:32 |
erlehmann |
that is true |
| 04:33 |
erlehmann |
<benrob0329> Between competing XEPs, overcomplicated standards, and clients which are either dead, undergoing UI reworks, or are majorly incomplete, XMPP is just as much of a mess as every other slightly aged protocol |
| 04:35 |
erlehmann |
benrob0329 not exactly true. compare the number of known-good interoperable xmpp clients and their interoperable features with *any* other protocol and you'll notice that is *a lot* more than for any other protocol. |
| 04:36 |
benrob0329 |
I don't think that's entirely accurate, but depends on your definition of a "good" client |
| 04:38 |
benrob0329 |
Conversations and the new MUC XEP both give me some hope for the future of XMPP, but the protocol is still waaay more complicated than I'd like (although it being general-purpose at the base-level does open up some cool possibilities) |
| 04:38 |
erlehmann |
benrob0329 what criteria would you set? the three that come to mind immediately are MUC / OMEMO / sending images |
| 04:41 |
erlehmann |
benrob0329 IMO protocol comlexity is only an issue when it actually inhibits something. for example, matrix has some things that are underspecified or the examples are not matching the specification, thus it is too complicated. also the matrix protocol requires some resources that make it unlikely there is ever going to be a performant way to follow big chatrooms (unless they changed it since last i looked). |
| 04:42 |
erlehmann |
looking at a spec in a vacuum can be useful, but the real world exists and some fantasy chat clients don't |
| 04:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> and people wonder why discord swept the floor with them |
| 04:42 |
erlehmann |
did it? |
| 04:42 |
|
search_social joined #minetest |
| 04:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> ask someone who isn't versed in open source to choose between discord or matrix |
| 04:43 |
erlehmann |
Jordach the discord login page lags my computer (which runs minetest just fine, lol) |
| 04:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> not my fault your hardware is older than children turning 16 |
| 04:43 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> (jesus fucking christ) |
| 04:44 |
erlehmann |
almost right |
| 04:44 |
erlehmann |
its from 2006 |
| 04:44 |
erlehmann |
no its not your fault but maybe a chat application should not use more resources for its login screen than a voxel game for its entire run |
| 04:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the problem is using web frameworks for something they should not be used for |
| 04:45 |
benrob0329 |
erlehmann: Feature-complete-enough MUC settings, decent UX (if it's not worse than Hexchat at the very least), and multi-client interopt. Gajim sucks a bit on the UX department, PSI+ does a lot, and Dino isn't feature complete enough to use as the only client |
| 04:45 |
erlehmann |
uh where is gajim worse than hexchat |
| 04:45 |
erlehmann |
i use both |
| 04:46 |
erlehmann |
also gajim is pretty easy to hack on! |
| 04:46 |
erlehmann |
i did hat more than 10 years ago |
| 04:46 |
erlehmann |
that |
| 04:46 |
erlehmann |
ah i know |
| 04:46 |
erlehmann |
gajim freezes sometimes if your connection stalls |
| 04:46 |
erlehmann |
that is bad |
| 04:47 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> for the record, the most mem discord prefers to use with the desktop app (alongside it's somewhat egregious caching of other channels in the background) is about 512mb |
| 04:47 |
erlehmann |
Jordach popularity means nothing except popularity. |
| 04:48 |
erlehmann |
i have about 2G RAM here and i have a handheld that has about 256MB RAM, both can run X11 and speak IRC and XMPP just fine |
| 04:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it got it's reputation in that it works for the majority of people |
| 04:48 |
erlehmann |
its a gamer thing Jordach |
| 04:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> they rebranded from that recently |
| 04:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> like days ago |
| 04:49 |
erlehmann |
no i mean its a gamer thing because of the resources |
| 04:49 |
erlehmann |
every single person who has "no issues with discord" i chatted with or met has a gaming supercomputer |
| 04:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> chrome right now on a single page is comsuming under a gig |
| 04:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> hell discord runs fine on my 2013 MacBook Air with 4gigs |
| 04:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> my windows system has been online for 21 days and has accrued about ~12GBs of memory leakage that it won't clear |
| 04:50 |
erlehmann |
jordan4ibanez for example made a youtube video where he spawned hundreds, if not thousands of mobs in mineclone2 without any lag |
| 04:51 |
erlehmann |
i can not do that even on the most powerful computer i have |
| 04:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> trust me |
| 04:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> his machine is peanuts compared to the Apple M1 MacAir i use for developing minetest with |
| 04:51 |
erlehmann |
yeah ok so you do have a supercomputer |
| 04:51 |
erlehmann |
but the point is not everyone has |
| 04:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> relatively speaking |
| 04:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> CPUs from early 2012 are fine for modern tasks |
| 04:52 |
erlehmann |
regarding chrome, lol, i just tested it and i can have hundreds of tabs open in firefox and 3 tabs oben in chrome |
| 04:52 |
erlehmann |
and chrome is using a significant faction of the firefox memory |
| 04:53 |
erlehmann |
about 20 tabs of youtube and i can lag any machine i have in chrome |
| 04:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> meanwhile firefox barely supports any standards other than plain HTML5 |
| 04:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> HTML5 on paper is a good specification |
| 04:53 |
erlehmann |
"chrome is the standard" is like "look, we have found a replacement for internet explorer, everyone use it" |
| 04:53 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the implementation is abhorrent |
| 04:54 |
erlehmann |
whatever, i just care i can open hundreds of tabs without lag |
| 04:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i have a python app with 65GBs worth of sqlite dbs running in the background |
| 04:54 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> consuming about 1GB of mem |
| 04:54 |
erlehmann |
also i have earlyoom and despite it accounting for chromes high oom score, it still kills chrome tabs before anything else wheneever i try |
| 04:54 |
erlehmann |
which is funny |
| 04:55 |
erlehmann |
Jordach i don't know what exactly you want to argue except that YOU have a bunch of really powerful computers. as i said, not everyone has. i know several people, who, for example, play minetest and *coud not ever* play minecraft on their computers with comparable performance. |
| 04:56 |
erlehmann |
could |
| 04:56 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i mean dirt cheap desktops for $300 would wipe the floor with any 2010 and prior hardware |
| 04:57 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> even the iGPUs of modern chips might as well be better than whatever PCI-E GPU you've got strapped in |
| 04:57 |
erlehmann |
regarding matrix, i stopped using it for performance reasons. |
| 04:58 |
erlehmann |
regaring discord, the *real* issues are not the client: https://cadence.moe/blog/2020-06-06-why-you-shouldnt-trust-discord |
| 04:58 |
erlehmann |
regarding |
| 04:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> ah yes my favourite |
| 04:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> foss guys complaining about something that has no actual basis or effect |
| 04:58 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> matrix does this on it's website and is fucking annoying |
| 04:58 |
erlehmann |
this one is the funniest |
| 04:59 |
erlehmann |
> I'd post more examples, but they're harder to find because a few months ago Discord staff wiped the bug report boards, deleting several years of issue reports. These issues still persist to this day. |
| 04:59 |
erlehmann |
Jordach what does matrix do on its website, complain? or say "discord bad"? |
| 05:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> what i'm referring to is the constant need to put itself higher cause muh open source |
| 05:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> regular users do not care about that |
| 05:00 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> only developers and programmers do |
| 05:01 |
erlehmann |
pretty sure that cadence is not a guy, but i guess that's beside the point |
| 05:01 |
erlehmann |
Jordach i agree to some extent, it is not inherently better just because the source is out there |
| 05:02 |
erlehmann |
Jordach but discord would be a shit show even if that was the case |
| 05:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i like it when open source software disguises the fact |
| 05:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> that it is open source and just from a visual inspection looks like a regular aopp |
| 05:02 |
erlehmann |
well you have a really new apple machine so i guess you are somewhat biased |
| 05:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the ContentDB gets shit |
| 05:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> for being dark theme by default |
| 05:02 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> and people for some weird arse reason associate that with hacking |
| 05:02 |
erlehmann |
towards the point of "i like it when my tech does not talk about its politics" |
| 05:03 |
erlehmann |
lol |
| 05:03 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> discord rebranded from being a gaming thing over a year ago |
| 05:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> partially true |
| 05:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Mac gives me a UNIX like env where i can get GNU userland |
| 05:03 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> but not deal with linux specific shit when it decides to break on its own requiring me to spend a day re-installing everything |
| 05:03 |
erlehmann |
GreenXenith i do not mean the discord branding, i mean it is entirely logical that the chat client using THE MOST resources from all i have tried (by far) is also one that gamers use bc they have supercomputers (compared to every computer i have) |
| 05:04 |
MTDiscord |
<GreenXenith> I was commenting on what Jordach noted earlier |
| 05:04 |
erlehmann |
ah |
| 05:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i like the GNU tools |
| 05:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> as well as the other UNIX programs |
| 05:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i like them a lot |
| 05:04 |
erlehmann |
Jordach my experience with OS X is that a bunch of stuff does not work and can never be made to work and if it can be made to work it breaks with the next upgrade |
| 05:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i do not like living on the knife edge where a wrong command fucks me over |
| 05:04 |
erlehmann |
? |
| 05:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> linux for a huge number of tasks still depends on the TTY |
| 05:05 |
erlehmann |
are you regularly typing "sudo rm -rf /" and only GNU tools option "--no-preserve-root" is helping you? |
| 05:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> despite the fact there's a functioning GUI |
| 05:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> which is crusty as fuck and needs modernisation and or UX fixes |
| 05:06 |
erlehmann |
Jordach i stopped using OS X about 2 years ago, can OS X by now do the thing where you can pin a window to be always on top of it? because there were windows that could be always on top (wifi password dialogue) but i found NO option to pin an arbitrary window, which was really really annoying |
| 05:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the base WM for macOS is terrible |
| 05:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i will concede that |
| 05:06 |
erlehmann |
can we agree on "software was a mistake" |
| 05:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> there are extensions that make it much more inline with KDE |
| 05:06 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> yes |
| 05:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i appreciate the values the GPL and other foss licenses bring |
| 05:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i do not appreciate the use it or die mentality that comes with it |
| 05:07 |
erlehmann |
what does that mean |
| 05:07 |
erlehmann |
when daddy turing gave us the theory of thinking rocks it was not an instruction manual, it was a warning! |
| 05:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> see MS' acquisition of GitHub |
| 05:07 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> reee MS going to kill it |
| 05:09 |
erlehmann |
github was bad before though, centralization is bad etc. pp. |
| 05:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> well yes |
| 05:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> changing the git remote of an existing repo is reasonably straightforwards |
| 05:10 |
erlehmann |
also basically everything MS acquires kinda sucks sooner or later in some very microsoft-specific way. you can count on that like everything being acqui-hired by google soon to be sunset. :P |
| 05:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> with google everything has a death clock |
| 05:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> except the ads |
| 05:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> with microsoft it's guarantee'd it'll be relatively supported for at least a decade |
| 05:11 |
erlehmann |
btw "open source" is a business term for people who think "free software" sounds too hippie communist and that is why i don't like it and the mentality behind it. the "everyone can look at it and thus we have no bugs" thing is a lie. |
| 05:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> there are only bugs if you're using it wrong |
| 05:12 |
erlehmann |
Jordach oh lol, do you know gwerns analysis of google products? gwern did a mortality prediction and it turned out adwords had a higher survival score than search |
| 05:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> see the minetest issue tracker for more information |
| 05:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> lmao |
| 05:12 |
erlehmann |
Jordach its a blast https://www.gwern.net/Google-shutdowns |
| 05:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> now this is a motherfucking website |
| 05:12 |
erlehmann |
the fun thing about it: the article is old enough that you can actually fact-check the predictions |
| 05:13 |
erlehmann |
> Prompted by the shutdown of Google Reader, I ponder the evanescence of online services and wonder what is the risk of them disappearing. I collect data on 350 Google products launched before March 2013, looking for variables predictive of mortality (web hits, service vs software, commercial vs free, FLOSS, social networking, and internal vs acquired). |
| 05:15 |
erlehmann |
Jordach if the minetest issue tracker bugs you (haha) then i suggest to look at the mindustry issue tracker |
| 05:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> kek |
| 05:15 |
erlehmann |
i told my friend "hey mindustry closes every bug really fast" |
| 05:15 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> nothing like uninformed people writing bug reports |
| 05:15 |
erlehmann |
and my friend pointed out that the mindustry dev mostly closes issues for being not reproducible |
| 05:15 |
erlehmann |
and is kinda rude about it |
| 05:15 |
benrob0329 |
Well that was a wall of messages to catch up on |
| 05:16 |
erlehmann |
because one rule is to add a savegame to your bug |
| 05:16 |
erlehmann |
and a bunch of drive-by-shooters who fire their bug reports in the general direction do not do that |
| 05:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> fucking hell |
| 05:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i know i've written a right shit bug report |
| 05:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> but i try and go step by step and even include video footage of such |
| 05:17 |
erlehmann |
so basically, at any point mindustry has 0 open bugs and over 2000 closed ones, most of which are either very quickly fixed or closed for not being reproducible |
| 05:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> just like dwarf fortress |
| 05:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> but i'm sure in that case it isn't a bug |
| 05:17 |
erlehmann |
i thought dwarf fortress developers are basically ppl who can't program? |
| 05:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> that said, a big issue with homebrew on mac is |
| 05:18 |
erlehmann |
thus the sluggishness |
| 05:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> their policy of arm64 macs won't be supported is extremely fucking annoying |
| 05:18 |
erlehmann |
here funny https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry/issues |
| 05:18 |
benrob0329 |
erlehmann: Gajim has been undergoing some pretty major UX reworks over the past few years, but the new UI is still pretty unpolished last I checked. I'd argue that Hexchat has the much more mature interface, even if it is more dated overall |
| 05:18 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i prefer quassel because of the core capability, even then i'd rather use thelounge on an archlinux server |
| 05:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> which means i don't even have to install the client interfaces |
| 05:19 |
erlehmann |
benrob0329 no idea what you refer to, could you be more specific so i start hating gajim more? (the stalling issues really bug me) |
| 05:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> https://gajim.org/screenshots/#&gid=1&pid=1 |
| 05:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> this looks fine to me |
| 05:19 |
erlehmann |
Jordach did you ever consider the MNT reform and if so what would be your reason to not get it, performance? |
| 05:19 |
benrob0329 |
<sarcasm>Other than the interface feeling like a barran wasteland?</sarcasm> |
| 05:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i'm going to need context for that |
| 05:20 |
erlehmann |
wdym |
| 05:20 |
erlehmann |
benrob0329 please be more specific |
| 05:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> oh you mean this https://mntmn.com/reform/ |
| 05:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> that's pretty neat |
| 05:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> like the odroid products before it |
| 05:21 |
erlehmann |
Jordach its the only new thing where you can change the batteries lol |
| 05:21 |
erlehmann |
oh this is kinda funny https://github.com/Anuken/Mindustry/issues/5241 |
| 05:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i mean that's not true for the most part |
| 05:21 |
erlehmann |
> Remote servers list refreshes whenever you change the window size. |
| 05:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> they're just a pain in the arse to change |
| 05:21 |
erlehmann |
> Also, the community servers list disappears after resizing the window a few times, too. |
| 05:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> lmao |
| 05:21 |
erlehmann |
and the dev closes the bug report with "this is intentional" |
| 05:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i wise the MT core devs would pick up a sense of humour |
| 05:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> and a slight bit of the authoritan juice |
| 05:22 |
benrob0329 |
I don't hate Gajim, it's just..how do I put this, it feels somewhat clunky and sparse..in the bad way. I haven't used it in a while, it's just not great from what I remember and I can't think of specific examples off the top of my head to illustrate it |
| 05:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> benrob: because it looks a lot like late 2000s apps |
| 05:22 |
benrob0329 |
but more bland |
| 05:22 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> which had a fuck-ton of whitespace and not a lot of things to fill it with |
| 05:22 |
erlehmann |
that's a styling issue |
| 05:23 |
erlehmann |
that can be solved, just change your gtk theme or whatever. |
| 05:23 |
benrob0329 |
At least 2000s apps had some style that made them interesting, even if they were a trainwreck |
| 05:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i actually think we're regressing UX and UI wise |
| 05:23 |
erlehmann |
i agree with Jordach |
| 05:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the technical specifications that MS sent devs for Windows 95 are basically the golden standard |
| 05:23 |
erlehmann |
gnome3 for example with this stupid "client side window decoration" |
| 05:23 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> gnome are tards trying to enforce their viewpoints on people who tangentially use GTK |
| 05:23 |
benrob0329 |
My GTK theme is fine, apps have to make use of things properly to not look bad |
| 05:23 |
erlehmann |
also the OS X human interface guidelines are p good, but have you ever checked how much of that OS X violates? |
| 05:23 |
benrob0329 |
changine the colors and button style won't magically improve UI design |
| 05:24 |
erlehmann |
i have and it explains a lot about why, say, xfce feels so much more cohesive than os x |
| 05:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> dark pattens says hello |
| 05:24 |
erlehmann |
like with xfce upgrade it is *still* kinda windows 98 style |
| 05:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> OS X problem lies in the fact that it's existed over three decades |
| 05:24 |
erlehmann |
but with os x upgrade you get a new theme and new behaviours |
| 05:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> from NextSTEP to OS X to macOS |
| 05:24 |
erlehmann |
i mean, when i upgrade emacs i don't have to learn anything new |
| 05:24 |
erlehmann |
but when i upgrade os x some stuff stops working |
| 05:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> for macOS this is also true |
| 05:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it's probably because the APIs have changed between versions from deprecated to actually discontinued |
| 05:25 |
erlehmann |
no not actually |
| 05:25 |
erlehmann |
i mean stuff that would be easy to not chane |
| 05:25 |
erlehmann |
change |
| 05:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> anything specfiic |
| 05:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i manually compiled all of minetest's dependancies including cmake because of homebrew not supporting multiarch envs like M1 with Rosetta |
| 05:25 |
erlehmann |
yeah, years ago a friend of mine did not upgrade os x for a while because i think “they removed the feeds she subscribed to from mail.app” |
| 05:25 |
benrob0329 |
As someone who was Linux-teethed on Unity, I live and breath the overview at this point and taskbars feel clunky |
| 05:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the macOS dock is a thing of beauty |
| 05:26 |
erlehmann |
Jordach how do you deal with the dock and having like 20 terminals open actually? |
| 05:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> on any other machine i'm immediately feeling claustrophobic with a few windows |
| 05:26 |
erlehmann |
switching terminals was really hard for me on OS X |
| 05:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i use iTerm 2 |
| 05:26 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> with tabs |
| 05:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> the stock terminal is ass |
| 05:27 |
erlehmann |
ok so the answer is you don't have 20 terminals |
| 05:27 |
erlehmann |
but with tabs you can see only one |
| 05:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> it supports split terminals |
| 05:27 |
erlehmann |
so i mean if OS X can not do it it kinda explains a lot why i hate it |
| 05:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> you can configure profiles for a lot of things |
| 05:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> secondly, the moment i'm opening windows on my mac, i can browse them with control + up arrow or for that app specifically, use control + down arrow |
| 05:27 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> browse them all with control + up |
| 05:28 |
erlehmann |
because i often have several terminals on linux (i3) and some in front of apps, some in the background, constantly changing, some monitoring tasks, some not monitoring, spread over different desktops |
| 05:28 |
erlehmann |
ah i did not know that |
| 05:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> window management is an arse in general |
| 05:28 |
erlehmann |
yeah i have not found anything nicer than i3 by now |
| 05:28 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> you can also swap between workspaces (virtual) or full screen apps with control + left/right arrows |
| 05:29 |
erlehmann |
its funny, window management is the one thing where free software is miles ahead in UX just because you have so many options that some of them are bound to be not awful |
| 05:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i like the ideals of i3 |
| 05:29 |
erlehmann |
just compare kde vs os x |
| 05:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i do not like the learning curve to it |
| 05:29 |
erlehmann |
is this another "i like the ideals but i hate it actually" |
| 05:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> not really |
| 05:29 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> more: what the fuck do i press to undo what the fuck i just duid |
| 05:30 |
erlehmann |
Jordach it takes like 3 days or so to learn it and according to everyone who uses it it is worth it. only change i can suggest is to make the mod key the "windows" key (meta?) so that you don't clash with emacs bindings. |
| 05:30 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i mean i'm a nano person |
| 05:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> if i want to edit plain text files, nano |
| 05:31 |
erlehmann |
i3, like vlc or 7zip, is this one thing that a lot of people install even though it seems to be preinstalled nowhere |
| 05:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> if i want to edit a bit more complex things, i deploy the VSCode |
| 05:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> multi-cursor editing is marvelous |
| 05:32 |
erlehmann |
Jordach you might like this one in principle maybe https://inconsolation.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/minime-the-9-8k-text-editor/ |
| 05:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i actually did a lot of my A Level coursework with nano over using word |
| 05:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i have thought about picking up raw C and ncurses |
| 05:34 |
erlehmann |
Jordach ncurses has issues with unicode though |
| 05:35 |
erlehmann |
if you want to make TUI fast i suggest urwid, but its python, so … |
| 05:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i don't mind python |
| 05:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i do mind the please do what i fucking say or i won't allow it |
| 05:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> machines should be subservient even if it's for bad things |
| 05:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> see: mozilla's rust |
| 05:37 |
erlehmann |
> machines should be subservient even if it's for bad things |
| 05:37 |
erlehmann |
sounds like C yes |
| 05:38 |
erlehmann |
Jordach if you have too much time on your hands, plan9 is a beautiful thing, even as a corpse |
| 05:38 |
erlehmann |
it has ruin value |
| 05:38 |
erlehmann |
plna9, the aesthetically pleasing ruin |
| 05:38 |
erlehmann |
like a greek temple overgrown by vines |
| 05:39 |
erlehmann |
yesterday i started making builds on minetest servers like that, so that if they get griefed they probably still look good |
| 05:39 |
erlehmann |
i made a greek style column, but the inside was an obsidian column |
| 05:39 |
erlehmann |
then i exploded parts of it |
| 05:39 |
erlehmann |
result was kinda cool |
| 05:41 |
erlehmann |
Jordach the music you made for minetest, is there any source code to it? |
| 05:41 |
erlehmann |
or source files, for that matter |
| 05:46 |
erlehmann |
not that it matters, but i counted and i have like 7 or so computers in this room that can not run discord and like 1 that can and that one belongs to my employer |
| 05:46 |
erlehmann |
coincidentally, all of them have no problems with irc or xmpp |
| 05:47 |
erlehmann |
and yes, i do count various handhelds |
| 05:47 |
erlehmann |
if it has busybox or coreutils, its good enough for me |
| 06:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> long gone |
| 06:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> didnt have good file management practices in 2011 |
| 06:19 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i wasn't even in my 20s until 2016 |
| 06:19 |
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| 06:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> my urge to learn new and different things started around 2015 |
| 06:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> long after i finished public school shit unfortunately |
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| 07:12 |
erlehmann |
Jordach ah sad |
| 07:12 |
erlehmann |
Jordach i see it with rendered assets too often, like music and 3d models |
| 07:12 |
erlehmann |
or even 2d logos |
| 07:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> I’ll probably make some more now that my machine is capable of actual real-time rendering of audio |
| 07:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> My desktop is that stronk |
| 07:13 |
erlehmann |
it does not take *that* much resources |
| 07:13 |
erlehmann |
like really |
| 07:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Synthesis on CPU crackles and pops |
| 07:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> If you don’t have enough grunt |
| 07:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> It sounds like sss |
| 07:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Ass and it has huge latency |
| 07:13 |
erlehmann |
Jordach take this e guitar i made and enjoy http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/pluck.c |
| 07:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Not great when you’re performing with an attached midi device |
| 07:14 |
erlehmann |
it can make guitar sounds on a potato computer |
| 07:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> It’s 8am in bongland |
| 07:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> And I wake up in the late evenings these days |
| 07:15 |
erlehmann |
the worst thing about it is |
| 07:15 |
erlehmann |
#define R rand()&0xFF|0x17 // almost obvious |
| 07:15 |
erlehmann |
because it is no longer almost obvious to me why i masked it |
| 07:16 |
erlehmann |
Jordan just do: tcc -run pluck.c |aplay -f u8 |
| 07:17 |
erlehmann |
oh it sounds like i intended with MU_LAW |
| 07:17 |
erlehmann |
tcc -run pluck.c |aplay -f MU_LAW |
| 07:19 |
erlehmann |
or maybe not |
| 07:19 |
erlehmann |
hmm |
| 07:19 |
erlehmann |
i don't remember |
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MinetestBot |
[git] AMDmi3 -> minetest/minetest: Use --image-base instead of -Ttext-segment for lld linker on FreeBSD … 53dca4f https://git.io/JsZH3 (2021-05-15T08:15:03Z) |
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rubenwardy |
I really don't like how the trim "supercomputer" was being used in this conversation |
| 08:26 |
erlehmann |
rubenwardy you mean as slang for something thats probably recent and cost a lot of monies? |
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| 11:50 |
pgimeno |
@Jordach quite interesting your pluck.c. I ported a famous music generation program to 44.1K 16bit: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/Gists/src/music--port-algorithmic-music-to-16-bit |
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| 12:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> If this is not the place to ask such things, could you please tell me where the profiler wizards live? The question: When there are more than 20 players on the server simultaneously, I get lagspikes every 5 seconds. Profiler says builtin spikes to 186 ms of an already increased to 0.18 serverstep, with a total of 272 ms. Server is 5.3.0 on MTG, heavily modded. |
| 12:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> builtin: | 712 | 186659 | 26334 | 3.5 | 73.8 | 20.8 - globalstep[1] ..................................... | 1 | 173337 | 21293 | 0.0 | 72.3 | 13.4 |
| 12:36 |
sfan5 |
the only globalstep handler builtin itself registeres is for minetest.after |
| 12:37 |
sfan5 |
not sure if the profiler tracks that correctly |
| 12:37 |
sfan5 |
(pretty sure it should though) |
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| 12:40 |
MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> So I should look for minetest.after calls that trigger every 5 seconds? |
| 12:43 |
sfan5 |
perhaps |
| 12:50 |
whosit |
Bastrabun: do you use xp_redo mod? |
| 12:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> Or globalsteps that trigger a minetest.after every 5 seconds. Thanks, I'll take a look. Any idea how to decrease the number of suspects without adding t1,t2,dt to every of those steps? |
| 12:54 |
whosit |
Bastrabun: we have same problem with 5-second spikes that caused by forced metadata sync, from mod that does "for each player: player:get_meta(); meta:set_int()" ... I was trying to profile it, and it came down to this pattern, I think it triggers garbage collection and forced db commit, or something. Not sure |
| 12:54 |
whosit |
how often mod does it and how much meta is modified does not matter, only thing that causes lag spikes is doing it for many players between "map saving" |
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MTDiscord |
<Bastrabun> We do use xp_redo, but the saving lagspike you refer to has been set found and solved. |
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| 13:21 |
specing |
whosit: bastrabun is alias |
| 13:21 |
specing |
lol |
| 13:23 |
pgimeno |
oh wait I meant erlehmann not Jordan |
| 13:32 |
erlehmann |
what pgimeno what is it |
| 13:33 |
pgimeno |
[0515 13:50:24] <pgimeno> @Jordach quite interesting your pluck.c. I ported a famous music generation program to 44.1K 16bit: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/Gists/src/music--port-algorithmic-music-to-16-bit |
| 13:33 |
erlehmann |
pgimeno ah you mean my plick.c |
| 13:33 |
erlehmann |
ah |
| 13:33 |
erlehmann |
pgimeno i can recommend my SIGINT talk "making music with a c compiler" and sorry for my bad englishings |
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Krock |
pgimeno: nice tunes |
| 13:48 |
pgimeno |
Krock: not mine, I just ported one to higher quality :) |
| 13:49 |
Krock |
wow. you basically revived your personal page after 15 years? wow |
| 13:51 |
pgimeno |
I don't consider it dead, I just lack motivation to update :) |
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pgimeno |
erlehmann: my 16-bit 44.1K version of your 8-bit 8K rolling.wav: http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/pastes/rolling-16b.c |
| 14:53 |
pgimeno |
I haven't finished watching the video |
| 14:54 |
pgimeno |
the "percussion" sounds awful at full quality ^.^ |
| 15:09 |
pgimeno |
erlehmann: as I watch the video... not sure if you know about Jot, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Jot - a Turing-complete language where you can't possibly make a syntax error. Not useful for your purpose as you need a non-Turing-complete language but thought you'd be interested anyway :) |
| 15:09 |
pgimeno |
hm, I should probably take this to PMs |
| 15:11 |
erlehmann |
pgimeno i heard about it, but the problem was in general that people always wanted turing complete languages which is really bad for live synthesis |
| 15:11 |
erlehmann |
you always need to be done in finite many steps |
| 15:11 |
erlehmann |
otherwise no synthesizer sound |
| 15:13 |
pgimeno |
yeah absolutely, you mention the halting problem and I'd add the looping problem - does it loop, and after how many samples if so? |
| 15:14 |
erlehmann |
pgimeno no loops allowed easy |
| 15:14 |
erlehmann |
that is already a halting problem |
| 15:19 |
sagax |
hi all! |
| 15:19 |
sagax |
how to auto-feed pets in mineclone2? |
| 15:24 |
erlehmann |
sagax use a hacked client, like waspsaliva, you can then write a csm |
| 15:24 |
erlehmann |
sagax you can probably make killaura into feed-my-pets-aura |
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| 15:26 |
sagax |
uff, hard |
| 15:26 |
sagax |
thanks |
| 15:37 |
pgimeno |
erlehmann: nice talk :) and that graphic glitch frontend is awesome, trying it right now |
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MinetestBot |
[git] Lejo1 -> minetest/minetest: Fix list of libraries included in AppImage d44f1aa https://git.io/JsCse (2021-05-15T21:56:33Z) |
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