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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-05-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:03 swift110 how are you Verticen and specing
00:04 Verticen not bad.
00:04 swift110 good to hear
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12:19 Aris oh, that
12:19 Aris that's a fun bug
12:20 Aris lava won't flow north or east if there's flowing water a block out, I guess it decides that it's not worth it
12:21 Aris but it will still flow south or west
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12:53 erlehmann engine-wise, why i anticheat so bad at its job?
12:53 erlehmann like it does not prevent flying
12:53 erlehmann but it does prevent people using trampoline from high up
12:54 erlehmann because once they bounce up they exceed the speed limit
12:54 erlehmann is there some technical constraint?
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13:03 specing erlehmann: because the engine has a speed anticheat, but not a fly one
13:05 erlehmann specing ok but speed anticheat is *really* bad
13:05 erlehmann like even very simple piston machines trigger it
13:05 specing really? Never noticed
13:05 erlehmann or, as i said, bouncing on a trampolining blck
13:06 erlehmann like go up a few hundred nodes, fall on, say a mineclone2 slime block (80% bouncy)
13:06 erlehmann on your way up the anticheat will kick in and ruin it
13:07 erlehmann specing well players can get pushed by pistons, which is basically instantaneously. time it right and you exceed the speed limit.
13:07 erlehmann specing the problem is anticheat having no idea if it is a legitimate game mechanic that lead to this
13:07 erlehmann i would kinda think that if pistons can push players its a bit stupid to then say it was too fast
13:07 erlehmann after all the piston must have been setup before
13:08 erlehmann and the trampoline thing is just … unfunny
13:09 erlehmann i know of a server where they disabled anticheat because of how horribly bad it affects nearly everything that changes players speed
13:09 erlehmann specing ever tried making a player TNT cannon? if you can survice, you go up really high :D
13:10 erlehmann survive
13:10 specing tbh I don't consider fly/speed/noclip cheating, because I don't consider Minetest a competitive game
13:10 erlehmann specing well it would be in, say, multiplayer puzzles
13:10 erlehmann or parkour
13:11 erlehmann but you mostly ruin your own fun
13:11 specing yes, so why have anticheat at all. It's their own fun that "cheaters" are ruining, after all
13:11 erlehmann specing what would you consider cheating?
13:11 erlehmann well i would like for people to not be able to fill my base with tnt from the other side of the map
13:12 specing I didn't think a lot about what is cheating and what is not
13:12 erlehmann hmm
13:12 erlehmann are dupes cheating
13:13 erlehmann is it cheating to bookban someone
13:13 specing area protection is already enforced server side and works well enough to prevent most n00bs from filling your base with tnt
13:13 erlehmann honestly i think area protection sucks
13:14 erlehmann it makes it impossible to have a commons
13:14 specing a commons?
13:14 specing area protection is a mod, so you can easily fix it
13:14 erlehmann an area that belongs to everyone
13:14 specing wouldn't that be an unprotected area?
13:14 erlehmann also it makes it really hard to place blocks with area protection
13:14 erlehmann i mean it is possible
13:14 erlehmann but annoying
13:15 erlehmann so on catlandia there was once a player who lured ppl to their base
13:15 erlehmann for trades
13:15 erlehmann to kill them
13:15 specing dupes are cheating when there is an economy, if you participate in this economy with dupes
13:15 erlehmann so what i did was /sethome there
13:15 erlehmann and you know, bone blocks still spawn in protected areas
13:15 specing but probably not always, but when you are underpricing others
13:15 erlehmann so i haunted the place
13:16 specing What is a bookban?
13:16 erlehmann throwing items (usually books) at people that makes their client crash or timeout
13:16 erlehmann it is a thing in minecraft
13:16 specing That's an engine issue, then
13:17 erlehmann on 2b2t a group called "the book club" set up machines that threw books at people
13:17 erlehmann and banned like 400 people
13:17 erlehmann ofc the admin also banned the book club members shortly afterwards lol
13:17 specing Does this happen in Minetest?
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13:18 erlehmann specing i am pretty sure it is possible if you manage to mess with item meta too much
13:18 erlehmann i was able to generate an enchanted fishing rod with like 184kb of metadata
13:18 specing cool
13:18 erlehmann for comparison, enchanted tools that make clients lag have like 21kb of metadata
13:19 specing iirc I did mess somewhat with writing loooong books with CSMs, but not sure if anything came out of it
13:19 erlehmann oohooo i am interested in that
13:19 erlehmann how to write book with csm
13:19 erlehmann the fact that an enchanted tool needs to save the dig speeds for each node or group means that …
13:20 erlehmann like for efficiency enchant
13:20 erlehmann somehow the code bloats the metadata of the fishing rod with like EVERYTHING
13:20 erlehmann if you manage to get efficiency III on it
13:20 erlehmann so nowadays the metadata gets reduced once you dig a block with it
13:20 specing So it's a badly written mod
13:20 erlehmann like enchanted pickaxes go from 21kb to 2kb
13:20 erlehmann but
13:21 erlehmann you can't dig stuff with a fishing rod
13:21 erlehmann so it can never be fixed once it exists
13:21 erlehmann specing i would argue it is a bad mod AND an engine issue
13:22 specing I can't find any code on book writing, so I guess I just conceptualised doing it
13:22 specing but I can interact with formspecs just fine in other code, so *shrug*
13:26 erlehmann specing i want books with unicode actually
13:26 erlehmann specing but my compose key does not work in minetest
13:26 erlehmann specing how to unicode book
13:26 specing copy from outside
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13:47 Aris hmm, does ice turn flowing lava into stone?
13:50 specing It's really cold!
13:50 specing the ice should probably turn to water, though
13:51 Aris yea
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13:51 Aris I'm trying to find solution to some of the lava's problems flowing
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14:08 specing also make the water evaporate :P
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14:54 AntumDeluge Any clue when 5.4.1 when be available in Android app store?
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17:18 AntumDeluge I'm trying to update the motorcycle mod to use `get_look_horizontal` instead of the deprecated `get_look_yaw` ( https://github.com/Extex101/motorbike/blob/9527d56/functions.lua#L242 ). But changing the method breaks control.
17:19 AntumDeluge The documentation says that `get_look_horizontal` is "Angle is counter-clockwise from the +z direction." & `get_look_yaw` is "Angle is counter-clockwise from the +x direction." Trying to wrap my brain around this, but math is not my forte.
17:20 AntumDeluge Been looking at some other mods & they straight changed the method without any other modifications.
17:22 AntumDeluge Oh, maybe it's because I didn't also change `set_look_yaw` to `set_look_horizontal`
17:24 AntumDeluge Nope, still broken.
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17:54 AntumDeluge Wow, I fixed it through trial & error. I don't understand why it works, but it does. The solution was in line 247 ( https://github.com/Extex101/motorbike/blob/9527d56/functions.lua#L247 ), changing "local rrot = driverlook - rot_steer" to "local rrot = driverlook".
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21:40 AntumDeluge Could somebody help me understand how growing farming:seed_wheat & farming:seed_cotton works? I thought I had to place the seeds on wet soil, like veggies & fruits. But they never grew. So I looked at the source code, & it seems they are supposed to be placed on grassy areas. But it won't let me place them.
21:40 AntumDeluge I have farming_plus installed, & I'm wondering if that is affecting it.
21:47 calcul0n AntumDeluge, they must be placed on wet soil, have water nearby and enough light
21:47 calcul0n not sure about farming_plus but iirc it doesn't change anything about that
21:48 AntumDeluge Yes, that is what I had them placed on, we soil in open air where they get light.
21:49 calcul0n also growing it's pretty slow, maybe just be patient :)
21:49 AntumDeluge It's been a couple weeks.
21:49 AntumDeluge https://i.postimg.cc/KFgwS3qj/screenshot-20210507-075404.png
21:50 calcul0n aw
21:50 calcul0n so there's something wrong indeed
21:51 calcul0n could be something broken with an update, you could try to remove all this and plant again
21:53 AntumDeluge I'm using farming from minetest_game v5.4.1. I haven't tried in vanilla (vanilla <- no other mods than minetes_game?). So I think I will do that. If it works there, then another mod I have installed must be interfering.
21:54 calcul0n yes, i suspect something like this too
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22:08 AntumDeluge Yep, they are growing in vanilla. Only took a couple minutes for them to start sprouting.
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23:24 AntumDeluge Is it normal that my server ignores the "load_mod_" lines in world.mt?
23:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> are your mods in worldmods?
23:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> if so, yes, it ignores world.mt
23:26 AntumDeluge No, they are game mods.
23:26 MTDiscord <Jonathon> same thing
23:27 AntumDeluge Okay. Makes sense.
23:27 AntumDeluge Is it possible to temporarily disable a worldmod? Or do I have to remove it?
23:27 MTDiscord <Jonathon> no, yes
23:27 AntumDeluge Okay. thanks.
23:28 MTDiscord <Jonathon> and re game mods, you can just make a empty init.lua in same dir as a game mod to override it (now this may break stuff in the game and piss the game author when you complain)
23:28 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *same dir name in your /mods or /worldmods
23:29 AntumDeluge <minetest_install_path>/mods ?
23:30 MTDiscord <Jonathon> or worldmods, yeah
23:30 AntumDeluge Okay.
23:40 Eman108 joined #minetest
23:41 Eman108 hey
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23:47 Eman108 hey
23:49 Eman108 Can any one hear me

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