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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-03-29

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:06 katp32 hi, why is movement only handled on the client side, this seems like a pretty obvious problem as far as anticheat goes
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02:29 Sven_vB katp32, when MT was started, it wasn't meant for playing with cheaters.
02:32 Sven_vB also I think that games should be fun to play without cheats. cheating usually is a symptom of a game that's not fun enough in its original gameplay.
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02:49 katp32 I agree, but still, it's a relatively simple check to add
02:50 katp32 but yes, in general, the game should just be designed in such a way that cheats aren't needed
02:50 katp32 (that being said, it's also a multiplayer game, and any time there's competition between players there's going to be people trying to cheat; the "people won't cheat if the game is fun" thing only really works in singleplayer or cooperative settings)
02:54 Viper Hi, when i run clearobjects full mt uses only one core. Its last stable 5.4
02:57 MTDiscord <Jordach> MT is still singlethreaded except mapgen
02:58 Viper ic ty
03:28 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There are plenty of people who will cheat before they even give the game a chance to be fun.
03:29 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If they're in single player, though, let 'em; they're only ruining it for themselves.
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05:35 unoz could minetest be sued my microsoft
05:51 MTDiscord <Jonathon> For what?
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06:04 unoz for copyright infringement? like... is it possible
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07:15 unixbsd hello
07:15 unixbsd what is freecraft?
07:15 unixbsd I see https://linuxappfinder.com/package/freecraft
07:16 unixbsd what is the difference of freecraft versus minetest?
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08:43 Emerald2 Can't tell much from that link, and googling FreeCraft comes up with different games from a block building game to an RTS.
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09:43 MTDiscord <Kimapr> "Realtime fantasy strategy game for Unix and X"
09:44 MTDiscord <Kimapr> looks like something completely unrelated to minetest and voxel games in general
10:00 MTDiscord <Kimapr> it isn't in aur either, so must be very obscure
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12:21 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yes, MT could be sued by MS, for anything really.  They could sue us for grazing our cows on their land if they want.  Doesn't mean they could win.
12:30 Ingar not for copyright infringement
12:30 Ingar I doubt anyone would _want_ to steal MC's java code
12:31 rubenwardy you don't need to right to sue someone. See patent trolls
12:32 Ingar tbh, microsoft hasn't been too trigger happy in handing out lawsuits
12:32 Ingar (they were usually on the receiving end though ;) )
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13:00 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Fix CMake version warning c12861a https://git.io/JYWN4 (2021-03-29T12:59:38Z)
13:05 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Fix CMake version warning fd4c5dd https://git.io/JYWAI (2021-03-29T13:05:02Z)
13:05 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If MS actually sued the project, then it would be very chilling, since the project itself doesn't have the kind of centralized resources to fight it, but it would also be a direct assault on free software and organizations like FSF would probably intervene to some extent.
13:06 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Probably the publicity would be bad for MS though.  They've managed to sort of fall back into "big-tech-adjacent" since Google, Facebook, Apple, etc are in the spotlight right now, but people probably haven't forgotten Internet Explorer...
13:26 MTDiscord <Jordach> MS these days isn’t what it used to be
13:27 MTDiscord <Jonathon> if ms wanted to sue anything mt related, mineclone2 would probably be higher up the list than mte tbh
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13:58 Ingar afaik game mechanics are not subject to copyright
13:58 Ingar otherwise ID software would have sued any quake clone in existence
13:58 Ingar (and be sued into oblivion themselves)
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14:01 TechDude Hello
14:04 TechDude I’m thinking about editing minetest to make it look more like minecraft
14:04 TechDude anyways how do I include a custom font in Minetest?
14:13 Calinou TechDude: you can use any TTF font as long as Minetest is compiled with FreeType (which is the case for official builds)
14:13 Calinou https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L988-L1005
14:13 MTDiscord <appguru> That's unfortunately not really possible yet. You can only distribute the font and recommend your users to download it & point Minetest to it in settings.
14:13 Calinou change the mono_* parameters below for the chat console
14:14 Calinou also, have you checked MineClone2?
14:14 MTDiscord <appguru> Well, the alternative is texture-modifier-based fonts...
14:15 TechDude Ok
14:16 TechDude Thx
14:16 TechDude ill put in my own font
14:16 TechDude And yes I know about MineClone2
14:16 TechDude i contributed a few issues there
14:17 TechDude how I am thinking:
14:17 TechDude minetest + changes + font = main part
14:17 TechDude launcher = I write it in python
14:17 TechDude easy
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14:18 TechDude My goal is to mimic EVERYTHING as close to minecraft as possible
14:18 MTDiscord <appguru> A Minetest launcher is pretty pointless IMO.
14:18 andrew hi TechDude
14:19 MTDiscord <appguru> I might do font media support
14:20 TechDude Hey Andrew
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14:41 specing A proper minecraft clone should also have a splash screen thanking the user for not purchasing minecraft
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14:44 katp32 specing: we should have a splash screen that thanks you for not buying minecraft, and also not downloading that crappy Final Minetest fork :P
14:45 katp32 anyways, what I'm here to ask.. is there a client config option to not have debug info shown by default?
14:46 specing isn't that the default? I always have to press F5 to see it
14:46 MTDiscord <Jonathon> ^
14:46 katp32 nope, it seems to be on by default for me...
14:47 MTDiscord <Jonathon> it might be on by default in debug builds? altho dont quote me on that
14:47 Noisytoot specing: Minetest isn't a Minecraft clone
14:47 katp32 argh, I compiled from source so that might be it...
14:48 katp32 Noisytoot: it's not a minecraft clone, but it is without doubt a minecraft competitor
14:48 MTDiscord <Jonathon> You can select between Release and Debug build by -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=<Debug or Release>. Debug build is slower, but gives much more useful output in a debugger.
14:48 MTDiscord <Jonathon> by default it should not build as a debug build, you would have to set that yourself
14:49 katp32 yeah, I might need to open an issue about that; I'm guessing it's because iirc gentoo sets the cmake build type to "Gentoo" for reasons I can't remember at the moment, I'll have to do some digging
14:49 katp32 in the mean time, is there a runtime option to turn that off?
14:50 MTDiscord <Jonathon> i mean, i would assume f5 turns it off like normal
14:50 MTDiscord <Jonathon> never used a debug build tho
14:50 specing I also compiled from source, and debug info is not default for me
14:50 katp32 well, yes, but I mean a setting in minetest.conf or something to make it not on by default
14:50 MTDiscord <Jonathon> grep minetest.conf.example
14:51 katp32 fair enough lol
14:51 MTDiscord <Jonathon> # show_debug = false
14:51 MTDiscord <Jonathon> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1180
14:54 katp32 ah, awesome
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15:16 TechDude Oh hey thinksome
15:16 TechDude long time no see ;)
15:17 MTDiscord <daCoUSB> Lol
15:17 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> katp32: I really don't think that a FOSS game engine competes with a commercial game.
15:17 MTDiscord <daCoUSB> Am I allowed to say cum?
15:22 TechDude Looks like specing went aaa run
15:22 TechDude anyways is it legal for me to lisense my own modified minetest under mit or do I have to use the original Lisense
15:23 sfan5 the short answer is no
15:23 katp32 er, what's the original license?
15:23 sfan5 the long answer is read the terms of the LGPLv2
15:23 katp32 yay, gpl
15:23 katp32 gpl or bust ;D
15:23 sfan5 if your modifications are only providing a predefined config file or something I'm sure that Minetest's license does not matter
15:24 TechDude Be right back one sec then I’ll read lgplv2
15:25 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I'd be surprised if the any *GPL license allows you to redistribute a derivative, no matter how trivial, under license terms other than an equal or greater *GPL.
15:27 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You probably can either use the original license, or you can "upgrade" the license to a more restrictive GPL variant, but you surely can't distribute your modified version under MIT unless you distribute only the modifications themselves and users need to obtain minetest separately and assemble it themselves.
15:32 TechDude Back now reading
15:35 TechDude ok so lemme specifiy exactly what I’m wanna do
15:36 TechDude I will give full credit to the authors
15:36 TechDude I will not claim that I wrote minetest and it’s dependencies
15:36 TechDude i will include the original Lisence.txt
15:37 TechDude and I will lisense my own changes and software under MIT
15:37 katp32 doesn't GPL mandate that any changes to the software also need to be licensed under a GPL-compatible license?
15:38 TechDude Oh umm well lisense my additions under mit and my changes under gpl
15:38 TechDude ill go read it some more
15:39 TechDude Yeah ok
15:39 TechDude and “ whole of the work to be licensed at no charge” ok I’ll put on github
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15:40 * katp32 whispers, "use a different source host, not github!"
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15:49 TechDude Umm ok katp32
15:49 TechDude i prefer it but I’ll put it elsewhere also
15:49 TechDude anyways here
15:50 TechDude https://github.com/TechDudie/StrictlyMinecraft/blob/main/README.md
15:50 TechDude correct me before I upload Minetest and mineclonewp
15:50 TechDude
15:50 TechDude Mineclone* argh keyboard
15:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You can license your additions under MIT, but if you distribute the whole thing along with MT then the entire compilation needs to be licensed [L]GPL, and the MIT license only applies to your changes when distributed separately.
15:55 TechDude Ok I’ll go delete repo
15:56 MTDiscord <appguru> 👍
15:57 sfan5 so did you actually modify minetest's code or not?
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16:01 TechDude https://github.com/TechDudie/StrictlyMinecraft
16:01 TechDude yes I am modifying minetest’s code
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16:02 TechDude Wb appguru
16:03 sfan5 which code exactly?
16:04 TechDude Umm at the moment...
16:04 TechDude oh right yeah I remember
16:04 TechDude guiChatConsole.c and it’s .h
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16:06 sfan5 okay then specifically the changes to MT code need to be licensed under the same license
16:06 sfan5 if you write e.g. a launcher to run MT that can be any license you want
16:24 TechDude I’m annoyed now
16:27 TechDude im just including a zip
16:27 TechDude then writing some python to decompile it
16:27 TechDude er decompress*
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16:44 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> TechDude: Why are you forking the engine, rather than just making a game?
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16:45 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> You know that we have a content store for downloading other games directly from the main menu, right?
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17:10 TechDude I am forking the engine because I need to accomplish certain things that are impossible with just a game
17:12 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> Such as?
17:13 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> I'm assuming one thing will be the chat position and style, but that sounds like a PR waiting to happen since you're not the only one who wants that to be customisable.
17:16 MTDiscord <Jordach> Pretty sure that’d take me an hour or so to PR
17:18 MTDiscord <Benrob0329> There was a PR, but it wasn't an option and I think the general consensus was that having it be a HUD element would be best
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17:54 tech_exorcist is it possible to recompile only parts of the client that have changed? I'm messing around with the code, and it looks like I have to do a full build every time (~15 to ~20 minutes)
17:54 rubenwardy that's what happens by default
17:54 rubenwardy if you edit a header, then any C++ files that include that header will need to rebuild
17:55 rubenwardy that's also a very slow build time, are you using multiple worker threads?
17:55 rubenwardy eg:  make -j4
17:55 rubenwardy number of threads +/- 1 is usually a good metric for that number
17:55 rubenwardy where threads are virtual cores
17:56 tech_exorcist I use -j4 (2 cores with Intel HyperThreading)
17:56 tech_exorcist <rubenwardy> that's what happens by default | does it depend on CMakeCache.txt?
17:56 rubenwardy not sure. Are you deleting it each time?
17:56 tech_exorcist I had to delete it when I copied my directory to make the modifications
17:56 tech_exorcist it complained about the path
17:57 rubenwardy it should recreate that file after building again
17:57 tech_exorcist it did
17:57 tech_exorcist I think
17:57 tech_exorcist let me check
17:57 sfan5 if you delete's cmake's caches it can't reuse build artifacts obviously
17:57 tech_exorcist I see
17:57 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Update CONTRIBUTING info on translating builtin 7c24a9e https://git.io/JYlAd (2021-03-29T17:56:20Z)
17:57 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Replace fallback font nonsense with automatic per-glyph fallback (#11… 8d89f5f https://git.io/JYlAF (2021-03-29T17:55:24Z)
17:57 tech_exorcist now that file's there
17:57 tech_exorcist bbl
17:57 tech_exorcist for unrelated reasons
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17:59 MinetestBot [git] Emojigit -> minetest/minetest: Update language choices in settingtypes.txt (#11124) fde2785 https://git.io/JYlxO (2021-03-29T17:58:39Z)
17:59 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Clean up various misleading and/or confusing messages and texts relat… 7ad8ca6 https://git.io/JYlx3 (2021-03-29T17:57:48Z)
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18:01 hlqkj is anyone else having absurd high values as forceload counts in force_load.txt ? seems like the technic s/station keeps foreloading the same block many times...
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18:13 mohanwavale Hello, where i can find code that generates dungeons in standart minetest_game?
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18:25 tech_exorcist back
18:27 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Dungeons are made by mapgen, there are aliases for which nodes it uses, the chests are placed by the game if i recall correctly
18:31 mohanwavale Are dungeons decorations?
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18:38 sfan5 maybe if he waited more than 20 minutes someone would've been there to answer the question
18:39 tech_exorcist https://zenhack.net/2017/01/08/public-service-announcement-irc-is-not-a-syncronous-medium.html
18:39 hlqkj at least he got one
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21:16 VanessaE someone PLEASE tell help me find what's breaking biome_lib
21:16 Krock init.lua L120
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21:17 Krock no I really don't now and I need no answers but sleep. see ya.
21:17 VanessaE bye.
21:17 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/11134
21:18 VanessaE (but closed because maybe it's a mod bug)
21:18 VanessaE I've gone over every byte of code and can't find a cause.
21:19 hlqkj $rm -r mods/biome_lib  ??
21:19 hlqkj sorry, couldn't resist, nm me :)
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22:25 MinetestBot [git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Degrotate support for mesh nodes (#7840) 3b78a22 https://git.io/JY8aO (2021-03-29T22:25:11Z)
22:28 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Fix wield image of plantlike_rooted (#11067) 6c9be39 https://git.io/JY8aE (2021-03-29T22:27:46Z)
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