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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-03-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:18 specing are there any different textures for technic machines? The defaults are hideous
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00:58 SuchAGeekGirl_ Noisytoot: Oh there is a Minetest I
00:58 SuchAGeekGirl_ IRC
00:59 rubenwardy Hello
01:00 MTDiscord <Jonathon> along with other platforms that can be found at https://www.minetest.net/get-involved/
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01:05 SuchAGeekGirl_ I'm making a wheat farm rn
01:05 SuchAGeekGirl_ I have a skeleton farm and a wheat farm for food
01:06 SuchAGeekGirl_ Because why go outside when you can stay undeground xD
01:31 SuchAGeekGirl_ What is the best Y level  to mine diamonds in Minetest? I'm playing MineClone2.
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01:34 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Wheat and skeletons sound like a pretty interesting crop rotation :-D
01:43 SuchAGeekGirl_ Well I found diamonds at Y -53 so I will go down to Y -45. That should work
01:43 SuchAGeekGirl_ Hopefully it's not a "the lower you go the more common they get" type of thing
01:44 SuchAGeekGirl_ Oh wait. I found bedrock
01:46 Pexin SuchAGeekGirl_: in typical games, deeper = more_common tends to be the case
01:47 SuchAGeekGirl_ Yeah I went all the way down to bedrock
01:47 SuchAGeekGirl_ Also I'm so dumb I can't do math today lol
01:47 Pexin except specific things like technic:uranium for example
01:48 Pexin which may not be in your game at all, I don't know mineclone
01:48 SuchAGeekGirl_ Also I have two skeleton skulls. I think they drop when a skeleton kills a skeleton or something
01:48 SuchAGeekGirl_ No. MineClone2 is meant to be a minecraft clone
01:48 SuchAGeekGirl_ I just have no clue how to light this nether portal
01:48 SuchAGeekGirl_ I will try lava
01:59 SuchAGeekGirl_ Omg lava worked
02:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> NodeCore Lode actually has a weird relationship with depth.  It gets harder to find as you go deeper, but when you do find it, there's a lot more.
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02:18 SuchAGeekGirl_ Weird
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02:32 SuchAGeekGirl_ OMG WHY ARE THESE STUPID F***ING MAGMA CUBES GODS
02:33 SuchAGeekGirl_ I CALL BS
02:39 SuchAGeekGirl_ I lost my diamond sword and axe ): Everything else I can easily recover
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04:06 SuchAGeekGirl_ How can I stop this from happening?
04:06 SuchAGeekGirl_ https://imgur.com/86HpxSj.png
04:07 VanessaE it depends on what's causing it, but you might be able to just increase your entities per block limit
04:07 VanessaE max_objects_per_block = 500
04:07 VanessaE in minetest.conf
04:07 VanessaE but first try to find out what's causing it
04:09 SuchAGeekGirl_ Okay. It happens more when I am in the nether
04:09 SuchAGeekGirl_ That's all I know
04:12 SuchAGeekGirl_ Omg it's so laggy in the nether
04:12 VanessaE which nether mod are you using?
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04:21 SuchAGeekGirl_ I am using MineClone2
04:24 SuchAGeekGirl_ I wish microsoft would just make minecraft free
04:24 VanessaE never gonna happen :P
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04:34 SuchAGeekGirl I am back
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05:10 sagax hi all!
05:10 sagax what are better render we have?
05:10 sagax for better light, water, flowers, etc...
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09:48 Ravise Hi, can I get some support on building minetest client from source? I cd'd into dedicated build directory, did cmake $HOME/src/minetest/src/ -DIRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR=$HOME/opt/irrlicht_mt/include/ -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY=$HOME/opt/irrlicht_mt/lib/libIrrlichtMt.a, but I'm still getting the error about minetest's irrlicht not found. cmake . -LH shows no irrlicht-related entries
09:49 luk3yx Did you build IrrlichtMt?
09:50 Ravise Well, the ~/opt/irrlicht_mt suggests I kind of did
09:51 sfan5 what does grep REVISION ~/opt/irrlicht_mt/include/IrrCompileConfig.h say?
09:51 luk3yx My apologies, it's late here
09:53 Ravise no output, exits with 1
09:54 sfan5 then the include path is not correct
09:54 Ravise So, issue with compiling irrlicht  rater than minetest?
09:54 sfan5 probably just entered the wrong path
09:55 sfan5 if ~/opt/irrlicht_mt/include/irrlichtmt exists try that one
09:55 Ravise Oh, right, that could be it
09:57 Ravise OK, I tab-completed it, but still no output, exit code 1
09:57 Ravise But now the cmake passes, I forgot about the extra dir after include
09:57 Ravise Thanks :)
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11:54 katp32 I noticed from minetest.example.conf that the client seems to have shader support? is that something that's been used at all?
11:57 sfan5 to the average user shader might mean dynamic shadows, depth of field, glare, realistic water and a bunch of other effects
11:57 sfan5 in reality shaders are just an essential component of the graphics pipeline and does not necessarily imply any of that
11:59 katp32 I mean, yeah, and of course minetest already uses glsl shaders (?) for rendering everything; I'm talking about fanciful effects that hit performance too hard to be "built-in"
12:00 sfan5 yeah those don't exist
12:01 sfan5 (yet)
12:01 sfan5 there have been a few attempts at dynamic shadows and there's someone at the forums working on it right now IIRC
12:02 katp32 ah, well, I wish them luck then..
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12:42 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Add entry in features table for degrotate changes f345d00 https://git.io/JYRZK (2021-03-30T12:40:09Z)
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13:07 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Re: Microsoft making Minecraft free: if they could, they'd probably love to make it free the same way they did with Windows.
13:14 Ingar Windows isn't free
13:15 VanessaE you gotta be crazy to run windows by choice anyway ;)
13:15 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You don't pay for Windows.  You pay for a new computer, and the price of Windows is included as a "tax" in effect.
13:15 Ingar unless yui build your own PC
13:16 Ingar or computer comes with Home edition and you need Pro
13:16 MTDiscord <Warr1024> There are a few alternatives that let you get a computer without the Windows tax, but then you also lose the "subsidy" of commoditization.
13:17 Ingar VanessaE: dual boot, some games still don't run properly in wine or native lnx
13:17 VanessaE that's what virtual machines are for :)
13:18 Ingar mixed results
13:18 Ingar and even native games still mostly run better in windows
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13:26 Wuzzy Who wants to go on ITB for secrets hunting?
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13:31 * DS-minetest
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13:33 SuchAGeekGirl_ I use linux mint 20.1
13:42 katp32 > You don't pay for Windows
13:43 katp32 as Ingar said, it's included in the price of your shiny new computer, and furthermore you're paying in the form of the bajillion trackers it's got :P
13:43 katp32 not to mention terrible performance, crashes and general instability, truckloads of malware....
13:48 Noisytoot I use Debian 11 (bullseye/testing)
13:49 Noisytoot MTDiscord: You do pay for windows if you're computer doesn't come with it, and you buy it (although why would someone do that?)
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13:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I think my point about the "Windows tax" is that you can buy a computer, format it and put Linux on it, but Microsoft still got a cut, even if you never even booted their stuff.
13:54 MTDiscord <Warr1024> You can build your own, or you can buy from a seller that ships non-Windows, but those options come with their own costs.
13:55 katp32 that's still very different from free.
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13:57 MTDiscord <Warr1024> My point was that (1) at the time when you're making the decision whether to use Windows or not, it's effectively "marginally gratis" because they've already taken their cut, and (2) if MS could do that with minecraft too, they very well might.
13:58 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It was suggested that MS should make minecraft free, and I'm just saying, be careful what you wish for, because the way they actually achieve that effect might be worse :-)
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14:01 freshreplicant[m You mean by monetising via adverts and such?
14:02 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Sure, or they'll work out a deal with device manufacturers to preload it and the cost will end up rolled into the device cost or something.
14:05 freshreplicant[m Ouch. Minecraft as the Candy Crush replacement for the start menu.
14:05 katp32 haha
14:05 katp32 I wouldn't be entirely surprised, they've already messed with Minetest plenty as it is, what with "Windows 10 Edition" and all...
14:05 katp32 err,, Minecraft
14:05 katp32 nobody let microsoft touch Minetest >.<
14:07 freshreplicant[m Skyrim: Minecraft Edition, brought to you by Bethesda - err, Microsoft.
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14:16 Wuzzy cant compile minetest right now... there's an error with irrUString.h 🙁
14:16 Wuzzy I have MTIrrlicht installed
14:17 Wuzzy IrrlichtMt*
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14:21 katp32 does anyone know of a mod that adds elevators that move up and down in real time, but *fast*?
14:21 katp32 like, 100m/s fast
14:21 Wuzzy yes
14:22 katp32 ah, link?
14:22 Wuzzy no
14:22 katp32 ..
14:22 Noisytoot katp32: Is there a Minetest Windows 10 edition?
14:22 katp32 dear god no
14:22 heavygale :D lol
14:23 Wuzzy katp32: try https://krock-works.uk.to/minetest/modSearch.php?st=0&amp;at=0&amp;q=elevator
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14:24 katp32 that is... a lot of elevator mods lol...
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14:27 mohanwavale Hello! How dungeons generates in minetest_game? Aren't they decorations?
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14:30 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Oh interesting, a mod search...
14:37 calcul0n__ mohanwavale, no, they are a specific thing of mapgen, unless they are customised by mods
14:38 calcul0n__ decorations just place nodes at randomplaces, i don't think you could make a dungeon this way
14:38 MTDiscord <Warr1024> ...mod search seems to be only an alternative to CDB, doesn't include CDB results.
14:39 sfan5 mohanwavale: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapgen/dungeongen.cpp
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14:52 mohanwavale Thanks
15:01 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Wuzzy, see kibilths comment today and yesterday in dev irc
15:01 Wuzzy oh, i already figured it out
15:01 Wuzzy due to the rename, i had to recompile IrrlichtMt as well 🙂
15:01 Wuzzy but thx
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15:16 specing Krock Works sounds like a badass factory name
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15:18 SuchAGeekGirl_ How has Microsoft messed with Minetest?
15:18 heavygale not at all?
15:19 heavygale or is there something minetest users should know about? ^^
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15:34 hlqkj yay, that was missing: Microsoft Minetest 2003 Professional... SP1
15:36 MTDiscord <Jonathon> lol
15:36 MTDiscord <Warr1024> "Krock Works sounds like a badass factory name" ... I'd probably buy all my cookware there.
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16:06 * tech_exorcist updates to 5.4.0
16:06 tech_exorcist éwill update
16:06 tech_exorcist *
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16:30 MTDiscord <Flamore> is the 5.5.0 -DIRRLICHT_LIBRARY supposed to point to the .so or the folder? it tried to build the .so...
16:31 Wuzzy .so
16:39 MTDiscord <Flamore> Irrlicht found, but it is not Minetest's Irrlicht fork.  The Minetest team   has forked Irrlicht to make their own customizations.  It can be found   here: https://github.com/minetest/irrlicht
16:40 MTDiscord <Flamore> this must be a joke, i cloned it
16:43 sfan5 you need to set the include path too
16:44 MTDiscord <Flamore> i did that too :P
16:44 sfan5 your set it wrong, then
16:44 sfan5 you*
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17:00 MTDiscord <Flamore> alright, i pointed to the .so and the include correctly but the "make" command outputs "no rule to make "irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so" required by /bin/minetest" or something like that
17:02 MTDiscord <Flamore> yet cmake says that "  Found Irrlicht: /home/user/minetest/irrlicht/lib/Linux/libIrrlichtMt.so.1.0 "
17:03 MTDiscord <Flamore> oops i mean .so without the 1.0
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18:05 DS-minetest that sounds like the .so file doesn't exist. did you build irrlicht before, nonstatically?
18:12 MTDiscord <y5nw> I think you need to set IRRLICHT_LIBRARY and IRRLICHT_INCLUDE_DIR
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19:36 Pexin Flamore: when I tried yesterday, I had to make a symlink for libIrrlicht.so because something, somewhere wasn't totally updated to refer to libIrrlichtMt
19:37 sfan5 not possible
19:37 sfan5 the CI builds portable and system-wide irrlicht in various environments (linux, mingw for windows) and it all works
19:40 Pexin well the linker yelled at me until I made the symlink, so I don't know what to say
19:41 Pexin it's certainly possible I did something wrong, shrug
19:42 sfan5 sure might be an 'external' problem
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19:50 MinetestBot [git] appgurueu -> minetest/minetest: Block & report player self-interaction (#11137) 88d1fcf https://git.io/JY0dr (2021-03-30T19:49:50Z)
19:50 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Consistent title bar + render information in mainmenu (#10764) f4118a4 https://git.io/JY0do (2021-03-30T19:49:15Z)
19:52 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Draw items as 2D images (instead of meshes) when possible 0d90ed6 https://git.io/JY0dh (2021-03-30T19:50:39Z)
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20:42 katp32 is there anything to be done about "active block modifiers took 201ms" being constantly spammed to logs?
20:44 Krock katp32: use less ABMs, use a faster CPU, make them faster or increase the limit
20:44 Krock I'd try to go for option N° 3 because it would also solve the problem for other people
20:45 katp32 it would probably be faster if it were possible to write mods in native code, but no, all the content needs to be in lua I guess...
20:45 Krock you can write them in native code
20:45 Krock link a static library and require() in Lua
20:46 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Increasing the limit doesn't really work well though.  Basically ABMs always try to all run on the same tick, so if you set the limit to like 80% (e.g. 80% of your gameplay is ABMs) then you end up getting an 800ms lagspike once a second.
20:46 katp32 why do heavy mods not use require() then, my god...
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20:47 Krock because it requires mod security
20:47 Krock and C(++) knowledge
20:47 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Most MT builds use LuaJIT, so writing mods in C/C++ would actually end up slower.
20:47 Krock and it's really not convenient to write mods like that
20:47 katp32 um.. what?
20:47 katp32 are you really telling me that luajit is faster than native code lol
20:47 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Yep, here we go again
20:48 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I'm gonna let you do this one yourself, katp.
20:48 Krock LuaJIT is pretty fast tho
20:48 jonasbits Hi, im interested in wiki.minetest.net, how does one get an account on that? Do i need to contribute in some way before I can get a login?
20:49 Krock jonasbits: /query Calinou     <-- email address
20:49 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Ultimately what MT should do with ABMs, anyway, is to push them into a queue when they're scheduled, and then dequeue some of them each tick, instead of trying to cram all ABMs for all mapblocks onto a single tick and freaking out about it when it can't fit them all in.
20:49 jonasbits thanks
20:50 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I think nobody has tried to do the mapblock queue for ABMs because there are a few sticky points
20:50 MTDiscord <Warr1024> like "how many blocks should I dequeue", "how do I validate that the blocks I queued are still loaded," and "will ABMs really work if they don't run all mapblocks at the same time"
20:51 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The last one, at least, should be simple enough though because as it is right now all mapblocks already don't run at the same time, since ABMs can be skipped for some mapblocks.
21:01 katp32 is there a way to view a breakdown out what mods are registering how many ABMs
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21:17 Krock katp32: grep or mod profiler
21:18 katp32 that doesn't tell me what things look like at runtime, I'd have to actually carefully read the source code to understand what that means for an actual running server
21:18 Krock yes
21:27 Viper Hi. I keep getting "ERROR[CurlFetch]: servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0)"
21:28 Viper Could it be FW is blocking port?
21:28 katp32 Viper: try increasing the curl timeout
21:28 katp32 iirc it's literally `curl_timeout`
21:29 Viper i have same mt.conf from 0.4 era
21:29 katp32 but, for the record, I have similar issues, and I believe there must be a bug in the client, because sometimes it works immediately and sometimes it doesn't even if curl_timeout is set to something ridiculous like 60 seconds
21:29 Viper i get it on server
21:29 Viper server is stable 5.4
21:30 katp32 well, bug in the client then, I assume the client and server use the same code for handling interactions with the serverlist :P
21:30 katp32 s/client/server
21:30 katp32 sorry, I'm being confusing by typing the wrong words lol
21:30 Viper katp32: :)
21:31 Viper maybe i have wrong server_address = . Could that trigger error?
21:32 katp32 no, I don't think so
21:33 katp32 I would try increasing curl_timeout in your server config (it's measured in milliseconds, so I might try a value like 10000, which is double the default), and see if that helps
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