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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-03-08

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Time Nick Message
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07:24 zceejkr Hello. I have just started running a minetest server, and I have some issues with lag. A lot of times, when I place a torch, nothing happens. If I die, the server logs start spamming: Server: name moved too fast: ... resetting position.
07:24 zceejkr Any ideas what the problem could be?
07:25 zceejkr Also, dooers cand chets often make a sound when I open them, but no effect happens.
07:25 zceejkr Doors*
07:25 zceejkr I am running the game mineclone2 if that changes anything.
07:26 zceejkr Kinda feels like the server and the client are out of sync
07:27 zceejkr When I right click the door, I see no server event loged.
07:32 zceejkr I just build a bridge over a large cliff, and was standing on it. The I reconnected, and I fell down, dying... There was no bridge there :D
07:35 MTDiscord <y5nw> I wonder if that's caused by the internet connection
07:37 zceejkr Might be... I played with 2 friends and they reported no such issues... So it's UDP packets getting lost, would that be a good guess? Also, what can I do about this? Mostly just getting a better connection?
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07:49 MTDiscord <y5nw> I would suggest that
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08:29 zceejkr Also, where can I find a list of item strings?
08:34 MTDiscord <y5nw> minetest.registered_items
08:35 MTDiscord <y5nw> The item string is used as the key (index)
08:36 MTDiscord <y5nw> https://minetest.gitlab.io/minetest/minetest-namespace-reference/#registered-definition-tables
08:37 zceejkr thanks. Also, is there an option to set render distance in minetest?
08:41 rubenwardy +/- keys
08:52 zceejkr ty
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09:59 * VanessaE wanders back in
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12:26 * VanessaE shakes Krock vigorously
12:27 VanessaE everything's done -- your remarks are resolved as far as I can see.  I think it's ready to merge but it needs a second look
12:28 VanessaE I'm impatient because this PR is holding-up some other work I need to finish :P
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15:04 VanessaE so....  normal vs 9-sliced (right) slot image:  https://imgur.com/mfPglyY.png   think it's worth the extra complexity to render all of UI's inventory slots this way?  (seen here is the refill slot, using the same image for both since it happens to already be suitable for 9-slicing)
15:05 VanessaE not sure why the 9-sliced output is a couple pixels bigger (and it's slightly offset too, but that's easy to fix if I were to commit to it)
15:06 VanessaE (probably just precision errors in irrlicht)
15:07 sfan5 certainly looks nicer
15:07 VanessaE indeed
15:08 VanessaE at the size displayed by MT (i.e. without zooming a screenshot), I can easily see the diff
15:10 VanessaE as Krock pointed out, it would add around 45 chars per image slot to the formspec (or about 44*45 bytes total if I did it for the whole main crafting page)
15:10 VanessaE writing a helper function that'll let me ask for an arbitrary tiled final "image" would be trivial
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15:24 MTDiscord <Warr1024> how does it look under different hud/gui scaling values?
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15:24 VanessaE idk
15:25 VanessaE I only know how it looks on my screen, and my gui scaling is unset
15:26 VanessaE though it would seem to be scaled to about 1.5x the original image since the image is 64x64 but is displayed at 86x86ish
15:26 VanessaE (well, 1.3x ish)
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16:10 VanessaE sfan5: 9-sliced all the inv slots...  https://imgur.com/JbJfXj1.png  (black squares are obsidian glass, for alignment checking)
16:11 VanessaE (er obsidian glass x-pane)
16:12 sfan5 looks great
16:13 VanessaE all of that generated from a single 64x64 px image :)
16:13 VanessaE (well and one more for the trash icon)
16:14 VanessaE the whole formspec is probably around 2kB of text
16:14 VanessaE well, the inv slots are anyway, not sure how much the item grid on the right consumes)
16:15 MTDiscord <y5nw> VanessaE: 2KB sounds like what I'm moving toward with the advtrains driver HUD :\
16:15 VanessaE the form opens instantly so at least the quantity of formspec text has no impact on client behavior
16:16 VanessaE well there's maybe a half-second delay but that's from the item grid, not the new inv grid code
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16:22 mckayshirou Hey
16:23 ar10ch I was thinking about some kinda bi-directional "forcefield" and I guessed the easiest way to allow a player to walk thru it one way but not the other would be privileges.. but it seems.. a little rough..
16:25 Soy_educado anything is possible, but the efficiency would be small
16:25 MTDiscord <y5nw> You might want to patch commands that involve teleport (/home, /teleport, /tp*)
16:26 ar10ch Ah that's very true, I shoulda thought of that! Thanks :)
16:27 MTDiscord <y5nw> I think we might need teleport hooks (on_teleport (etc)) since such commands can also be possibly modified by other mods (e.g. jail)
16:30 ar10ch I think (think!) in this use case - say a forcefield was 6 wide, 3 high and 2 thick, (ish) then a central node in the ff could get pos and set pos +2 in the facedir? maybe crude but off the top of my head..
16:31 ar10ch or +3 actually else ud b stuck in the ff lol
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16:34 ar10ch of "Jail" - does it have a tool to send players to a locked-facility? like a handcuff-shaped "magic wand"?
16:34 MTDiscord <Jordach> with 5.4.0 VanessaE have you considered the option of uhhhhhhh, using model[]
16:34 MTDiscord <Jordach> and just make a 3D model that does exactly that
16:38 VanessaE Jordach: does what?
16:41 MTDiscord <Jordach> have your exact inventory layout
16:41 MTDiscord <Jordach> and since it's a rendered camera view, it's technically immune to any sort of scaling
16:43 VanessaE ehhh. no
16:43 MTDiscord <Jordach> trust me on this
16:44 VanessaE no, just no
16:44 VanessaE too complicated.
16:44 MTDiscord <Jordach> i've been working on a VGUI like scenario
16:44 MTDiscord <Jordach> all 3D model, no formspec
16:44 Soy_educado Undersampling works on screen esolution base or it a predefined scaling?
16:46 ar10ch ah - wrt "jail" it does not. Good - I'll carry on then :)
16:54 ar10ch I already have a "Naughty Corner" that I can manually teleport baddies to. In fact the castle in my first world had a "Griefer Hotel". But for other players to be able to send the troublesome folks to some kind of internment without giving the a privilege like "bring" that can be abused, a tool seems like a good way to go. A policemans baton, perhaps?
16:56 [Pokey] irc
16:56 MTDiscord <Pokey> oh yes discord, nice
16:56 MTDiscord <Pokey> ignore me
17:06 VanessaE not so nice.  can't tab-complete peoples nicks from IRC  :P
17:06 MTDiscord <y5nw> Copy-paste 😛
17:07 VanessaE that requires taking my hands off the keyboard 😛
17:08 MTDiscord <y5nw> gives VanessaE a mouse
17:09 VanessaE I have a mouse you twerp :P
17:09 MTDiscord <Jonathon> its such novel technology :p
17:09 MTDiscord <y5nw> Great. Saves the money I spend on mailing people things
17:10 MTDiscord <Jonathon> would seem a irc client could be made to tab through messages, then copy paste. delete
17:10 MTDiscord <y5nw> (Seriously though I should get an IRC client)
17:11 MTDiscord <Jonathon> i do, no bouncer so its hardly ever online 🙃
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17:13 yw05 Test
17:13 MTDiscord <y5nw> Ok, works
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17:19 DivideByZero ERROR[Main]: Error writing to configuration file: "../worlds/world/world.mt"
17:19 DivideByZero ERROR[Main]: ServerError: Failed to initialize world: Faile to update the config file
17:20 DivideByZero I set my permissions to the unpriviledge user I created for the server 'chown -R minetest:minetest worlds' and to the conf file.
17:21 MTDiscord <y5nw> Are you actually running minetestserver using the minetest user?
17:21 DivideByZero yes
17:21 DivideByZero minetest is a user I created specifically for it.
17:21 MTDiscord <y5nw> And does the user have write permission to the files?
17:22 DivideByZero yes read and write. I'll check one more time to be sure.
17:22 DivideByZero -rw-r--r--
17:22 MTDiscord <y5nw> Afaik you also need to set the execute flag on directories
17:22 DivideByZero directories need execute, not just executables? That I did not know.
17:23 DivideByZero so something like 'sudo chmod +x <dirname>' ?
17:23 MTDiscord <y5nw> From what I read, yes
17:23 MTDiscord <y5nw> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/21251/execute-vs-read-bit-how-do-directory-permissions-in-linux-work
17:23 DivideByZero Oh, thanks for the link, I'll read that first too.
17:26 DivideByZero one dir needed permission +x but the rest had it.  Tried it again, but same error message.
17:27 DivideByZero Oh, I know why... I'm logged in as the wrong user executing it, i think...
17:30 DivideByZero Nope it was a type. i needed another ../ in the path.   ../../world/worlds
17:31 DivideByZero typo
17:35 DivideByZero Ok I have it running now. :D  Going to login and see if it's working.
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17:37 DivideByZero it's working, but I forgot to install the texture pack I had previously.  Now I can tinker with it again at least.  Then I need to make it work with systemctl next.
17:58 VanessaE there, I think I'm finally done fixing-up unified inventory
17:58 ar10ch I'm still trying to get the hang of "get_objects_inside_radius"
17:59 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest-mods/unified_inventory  on the `formspec_v4` branch in case anyone wants to look at the result
18:02 ar10ch i generall revert to a player detector and a command block to to this but i'm hoping it wont be a big deal to use "get_objects_inside_radius" to spawn an entity at y-1. But the way I do it I can get it to happen once, but not on the visit of each new player
18:06 Extexo What is the purpose of user aligned texture and what does it do?
18:07 DivideByZero I'll check it out when I'm done setting up my server Vanessa.
18:09 VanessaE DivideByZero: don't put it on a server yet.  it needs more testing first, just for paranoia sake :)
18:10 VanessaE note: skinsdb and unified_inventorr_plus will not work properly with this new code.  they'll require adaptation (I don't foresee that being difficult)
18:11 VanessaE (plus does run fine, its icons/buttons are just positioned wrong)
18:13 Extexo Ohh nvm I found what it does, not what I expected... Oof
18:13 MTDiscord <y5nw> ar10ch: I do not understand what you mean with using get_objects_inside radius to spawn entities
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18:14 ar10ch y5inw: like a player detector (like i say - it would be preferable not to use the player detector/command block combo if i can)
18:15 ar10ch *sorry y5nw !!
18:18 MTDiscord <y5nw> I think it might be the way you implement player/object detection that is wrong. If you simply check if the state of having an object in a radius changes from "none" to "some" then consider the fact that spawning entities also cause the entities to be detected by get_objects_inside_radius
18:19 ar10ch ok.. with "while" ? sorry I'm just getting the hang of the api so i'm a little guess-y about this stuff :)
18:20 MTDiscord <y5nw> I wonder how your current code is like
18:20 ar10ch hold on
18:20 MTDiscord <y5nw> (No, don't use while without any particular reason. It blocks)
18:23 DivideByZero Vanessa I'm still getting an error with 'basic_signs' even on the new server 5.4.0: initlua12: attempt to call field 'register_sign' (a nil value)
18:23 VanessaE sounds like you just need to update signs_lib
18:23 DivideByZero I just did, fresh from github.
18:24 DivideByZero I wrote a bash script to install, and keep my mods up to date whenever I run it.
18:24 VanessaE impossible.
18:24 DivideByZero I did. I promise.
18:24 VanessaE maybe you didn't put the update into actual use
18:24 DivideByZero I even just checked the files dates and they are infact from today a few minutes ago.
18:24 DivideByZero I didn't have it before. I got them all fresh today.
18:25 VanessaE something has to be wrong, but what is initlua12?
18:25 DivideByZero It wouldn't detect any of my old folders so I just scrapped them all and got stuff fresh.
18:25 VanessaE no mod of mine uses a file by that name.
18:25 DivideByZero i think it means your init.lua file on line 12
18:25 DivideByZero Let me go find your code on github.
18:25 VanessaE my code is not on github.
18:25 VanessaE it's on gitlab.
18:25 DivideByZero oh
18:25 ar10ch cant use pastebin
18:26 VanessaE but, MT won't display an error that way -- it's not going to alter the reported filename.
18:26 DivideByZero I can't login in there, it won't send the email confirmation. (Apparently a known bug there according to all the forum posts about it)
18:26 VanessaE you don't need to log in
18:26 VanessaE the repo is public
18:26 DivideByZero you have the link handy? if not ill search it.
18:26 VanessaE https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/signs_lib.git
18:28 DivideByZero could it be this line 11: signs_lib.gettext = S
18:28 DivideByZero since I didn't install the GettextLib
18:28 VanessaE no
18:28 DivideByZero it says 12 but 12 is an empty line
18:28 ar10ch whatever, I'm not having a good day
18:28 VanessaE ok, if it's reporting like that, it's broken
18:28 VanessaE it will not report an empty line, ever.
18:28 DivideByZero I'm not sure init.lua:12 even is line 12, that was just my hunch
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18:29 MTDiscord <y5nw> It is, but are you sure it's from signs_lib?
18:29 Krock VanessaE: did you check skinsdb and 3d_armor compatibility?
18:29 VanessaE if it's really saying init.lua line 12 then it's using a different signs_lib than you think it is :)
18:29 DivideByZero The error is severe enough to shutdown the server.
18:29 Krock they're visually broken now
18:29 VanessaE Krock: I will submit patches for them
18:29 DivideByZero I'll go read the file in the directory
18:29 VanessaE I know skinsdb will need it, ui_plus too
18:30 DivideByZero looks way different of a file.
18:30 DivideByZero its a long file not short like  yours.
18:30 DivideByZero let me find the link my script downloaded it from
18:31 DivideByZero I see why... I downloaded TenPlus1's version of it.
18:31 Krock VanessaE: looks good overall, but spacing seems to be suboptimal: https://i.postimg.cc/fTHSbHkc/grafik.png
18:31 DivideByZero I'll get yours instead.
18:31 DivideByZero I bet it works then. :)
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18:34 Krock VanessaE: minor, but the text in lite mode seems to be too high. https://i.postimg.cc/MH3BgtQm/grafik.png
18:35 Krock also the "bags" button is missing in lite mode (implemented yet?)
18:37 Krock comparison, previously the crafting grid was more centred and used the entire available space: https://i.postimg.cc/ht1mBSTG/grafik.png
18:38 VanessaE oh you mean the header?
18:38 VanessaE that's intentional.
18:38 VanessaE because the slots are taller I had to move things up and down some
18:39 VanessaE and if I move the header down it'll conflict with the craft result string in the cruaft guide.
18:39 VanessaE -u
18:39 Krock oh sorry I was talking about the craft guide, not grid.
18:39 Krock the grid uses its space just fine
18:40 VanessaE I can move the craft guide over more, but I wonder if some of those translations are maybe...excessive?  Surely there's a shorter way to say "To craft grid" :)
18:41 Krock at least in german there's none that would express the same meaning
18:41 VanessaE (note: those "to craft grid" buttons don't work for me, never have.  someone else can fix those after the v4 rewrite goes in)
18:41 Krock works just fine for me
18:42 VanessaE why not just "zu gittern"?
18:42 VanessaE (literally, "to grate')
18:42 VanessaE "*
18:42 DivideByZero signs are working now Vanessa. :D
18:42 VanessaE DivideByZero: toldjyaso. :)
18:42 DivideByZero :)
18:42 Krock err what the hell. this copy thing worked before
18:42 VanessaE Krock: they work for you? huh.
18:42 VanessaE the give buttons work, but I never could figure out why the to grid buttons don't.
18:43 DivideByZero Now I'm trying to figure out why my texture pack isn't working though.  I tried it in the /textures folder and in /textures/server neither seem to work. Any suggestions?
18:43 VanessaE Krock: what copy thing?
18:44 Krock the topic
18:44 Krock there was no topic change
18:44 DivideByZero Are signs harder to read now, or is it just my eyes?
18:44 VanessaE but anyway if you really want me to move the guide more to the right I can.  I put it where it is so that it lines up with the crafting guide when you flip between pages.
18:44 DivideByZero seems like a smaller font that breaks up at a short distance.
18:44 VanessaE er so that it lines up with the grid
18:45 VanessaE also you need to update.  9-slicing all over the place for razor sharp images :)
18:46 VanessaE DivideByZero: well the font changed, by necessity, so that they can support proper i18n but I can read a small-text normal sign from about 6 or 7 m
18:46 VanessaE which is about the range they had before.
18:46 Krock I can copy the steel chestplate recipe, but not the gold chestplate recipe to crafting gri
18:46 VanessaE use the wide font or a larger sign if you can
18:46 Krock very strange
18:46 VanessaE Krock: huh.  well let's deal with that later :)
18:47 Krock same behaviour in master
18:47 VanessaE ok good, I didn't break it ;)
18:47 DivideByZero I prefered the older font, was easier to read and further distance, but I guess it's not good for that i18n (what is that?)
18:47 VanessaE Krock: so, increase the spacing left and right of the crafting guide then?  or just trim the translations?
18:48 Krock can someone please tell my brain to not close and rebuild Minetest every time I want to change a mod revision thanks
18:48 Krock ffs
18:48 VanessaE DivideByZero: foreign language support ("i" 18 chars "n", i.e. "internationalization")
18:48 VanessaE Krock: lol
18:49 VanessaE DivideByZero: but that aside perhaps you should ping the guy who made that code happen.  check the git log, open an issue, tag him
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18:49 Krock small UI, big fonts before/after. https://i.postimg.cc/23Rf2N5p/grafik.png
18:49 VanessaE you aren't the first to say the font seems to be harder to read, but the first such report turned out to be an engine issue (mipmap distortion)
18:50 VanessaE Krock: so the only thing that really changed was the word above/below the arrow
18:51 VanessaE I moved it up intentionally, thought it looked better :-/
18:51 VanessaE I'll move it back down
18:51 Krock it does look well integrated in full screen mode
18:51 Krock but just there..
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18:52 Krock VanessaE: it might be possible to remove the left item image button, or does it have any purpose?
18:52 VanessaE it can be removed
18:53 VanessaE I don't know why it's even there
18:53 Krock perhaps that gives some more freedom in terms of space
18:53 VanessaE but since it was already, I kept it.
18:53 VanessaE well in your big-font-small-window images, removing it would add two lines of space
18:54 VanessaE maybe 3
18:57 VanessaE https://imgur.com/oFAa4vf.png
18:58 VanessaE (the stuff by the arrow)
18:58 Krock yes, that should scale better
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19:00 Krock I use "font_size = 18" and "hud_scaling = 0.8" @900x600 to test most GUIs that way, so that it'll definitely look good using weird screens resolutions or people with impaired sight
19:01 VanessaE what'
19:01 VanessaE ldk,fejkl;vdklsjhgbljk;sfhjkl;g
19:01 VanessaE what's next?
19:01 Krock huh?
19:01 Krock make it turing complete
19:01 VanessaE what's the next thing to update in UI
19:01 VanessaE HAH!
19:01 Krock nah, jk. I think moving the grid +0.5,+0.25 would help a bit
19:02 VanessaE ok.
19:02 Krock but that's really minorities
19:02 Krock might not look as pretty if you'd use 4x4 or 5x5 grids in special cases
19:02 Krock *in very special cases
19:02 VanessaE actually
19:02 VanessaE that does work fine
19:03 VanessaE tested with nekogloop's old toolsizes mod
19:03 VanessaE up to 5x5 fits fine
19:03 Krock hmm... even if you move the 3x3 grid position a bit?
19:03 VanessaE it autoscales.
19:03 Krock niice
19:05 DivideByZero I'm getting errors about mods not following naming conventions and it shutsdown the server. The mods however do look to be using only alpha and _
19:06 VanessaE Krock: you sure you want me to move the craft guide over?  it'll trigger my OCD if I do :P
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19:06 DivideByZero One of the mods I can remove I guess as it seems it comes with minetest now anyways 'buckets'
19:08 DivideByZero the photorealism texture pack gives that error too though, and I really like that pack.
19:08 Krock VanessaE: my OCD is triggered by the blank space between the grid and item selector
19:08 VanessaE heh
19:08 DivideByZero DO I need to report it to the author is it is something I've done wrong?
19:08 Krock :P
19:08 VanessaE but...but...but if I move it it won't line up with the inventory slots :)
19:08 DivideByZero Is it OCD or OCP Krock?
19:09 Krock LCD
19:09 Krock similar to LSD
19:09 DivideByZero You know the difference?
19:09 Krock no really I don't
19:10 Krock so it's basically the opposite of OCD
19:10 DivideByZero OCP = Obsessive Compulsive Personality (You have the traits but it doesn't cause major issues in your life); OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (Your obsessiveness causes problems in your daily living)
19:11 Krock maybe I'm just dissatisfied
19:11 DivideByZero haha :)
19:12 DivideByZero I like to keep things in specific order.  Even on my computers, which sometimes can become burdensome.
19:13 DivideByZero Does anyone know what packet quota used up means? I see that a lot in the log.
19:13 DivideByZero client received too many packets and is not allowed more for a time?
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19:14 sfan5 usually no cause for concern
19:16 Krock it's a new warning in old code. nothing to worry about
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19:24 ar10ch if it's still relevant (!lo.ol!) ha https://pastebin.com/wjfQdZ7i - I can't remember what the other thing I was doing was...
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19:24 Krock ar10ch: locked paste
19:25 ar10ch oh.. what are they doing.. i'll check it now
19:26 ar10ch it says public
19:27 ar10ch password disabled
19:28 Krock Locked Paste
19:28 Krock Enter password
19:28 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Translate builtin into German (server-side) (#11032) a21402b https://git.io/JqLtB (2021-03-08T19:27:48Z)
19:28 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Fix misleading chat messages of /clearobjects (#10690) c48bbfd https://git.io/JqLtR (2021-03-08T19:27:32Z)
19:29 ar10ch krock: is that what it's saying to you?
19:30 Krock yes
19:30 ar10ch uh. it changed. i dont like it. hold on
19:40 VanessaE Krock: https://imgur.com/dyDFF7u.png
19:40 Krock <3
19:40 VanessaE (still need to delete that extra icon on the left)
19:41 VanessaE or should I leave it?  (and move it a little to the left)
19:41 Krock As you wish. I don't mind it.
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19:46 VanessaE I'll get rid of it
19:46 VanessaE it's useless
19:49 VanessaE https://imgur.com/ZeMmMxs.png
19:49 VanessaE (lite mode, obv)
19:49 VanessaE https://imgur.com/l8kLEbE.png
19:49 VanessaE full mode
19:49 VanessaE (duh)
19:50 Krock nice, but where's waypoints and bags?
19:50 VanessaE they don't work in lite mode.
19:50 VanessaE never did
19:50 Krock oh that's sad
19:51 VanessaE well..
19:51 VanessaE I could add them, I'm sure there's room
19:52 VanessaE but if you'll notice in my pic, the first main buttons row is full, so adding those to lite mode would leave only enough space for two more buttons
19:52 ar10ch joined #minetest
19:53 VanessaE (that's why I omitted those pages from lite mode when I first added it way back when)
19:55 ar10ch regardless of the question (now) would anyone mind checking if this is still locked?  https://pastebin.com/wjfQdZ7i Thanks :)
19:58 VanessaE works for me, ar10ch
19:58 VanessaE Krock: two replies added to your remarks
19:59 ar10ch sweet - thankyou VanessaE :)
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20:01 VanessaE yw
20:02 ar10ch Does anyone want a kitten?
20:02 VanessaE no thanks
20:02 VanessaE I have three cats already
20:02 VanessaE and they drive me insane :P
20:03 ar10ch My girl had 4 and i live in a small flat - they're drivin me nuts lol
20:06 VanessaE heh
20:08 ar10ch I'd keep them all if I could - the little "darlings" lol
20:09 ar10ch right then - if it's working.....
20:09 ar10ch what was my question..??
20:09 ar10ch erm
20:10 ar10ch oh yeah - spawning an entity using get_objects_inside_radius
20:11 ar10ch if anyone has a mo to tell me where I'm goin wrong - regardless of the question ....  https://pastebin.com/wjfQdZ7i
20:13 DS-minetest everywhere
20:13 ar10ch haha
20:13 ar10ch sounds right
20:14 DS-minetest it looks like what you would like to use is a node timer
20:14 * VanessaE pokes Krock -- stop playing Uno :P
20:15 VanessaE ar10ch: btw, "womp"?  afraid to add "rats" ? ;)
20:16 DS-minetest and copy the node definiton and callbacks from api doc choose what you want
20:16 DS-minetest !api ar10ch
20:16 MinetestBot ar10ch, someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
20:16 ar10ch haha VanessaE - it's the mario rock guy! lol
20:16 VanessaE that'
20:16 VanessaE that's a thwomp.
20:17 VanessaE I think?
20:17 VanessaE ?P
20:17 VanessaE :P
20:17 ar10ch Yeah maybe I should
20:17 ar10ch Nah it aint
20:17 DS-minetest it's stampfi
20:17 ar10ch Maybe I have... and more
20:17 ar10ch Hence my asking
20:17 ar10ch But nvm
20:17 VanessaE oh, we're both wrong, it's whomp, not womp :)
20:18 ar10ch maybe lol
20:21 ar10ch My modpack is about 8mb.. ive not been sitting on my hands here. I need to tidy up a lot of things before anything is release-able. I dont need the headache about licences. But My stuff does do stuff and I HAVE READ and almost memorised the API. Doesn't mean I understand it all tho .... :P
20:22 MTDiscord <y5nw> You should probably consider having a license. Otherwise others can't assume anything other than "all rights reserved"
20:23 ar10ch My personal licence would be "Do what you want and leave me alone."
20:23 MTDiscord <Jonathon> So something like mit?
20:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> There is wftpl, but you really should not use it
20:24 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Nal tho
20:24 ar10ch Im helping my 10yo with a nice little mod atm. That'll prob b MIT
20:24 MTDiscord <y5nw> I personally use GPL or AGPL with only that specific version
20:25 ar10ch tbh Its a stage I havent quite reached yet. Like maintenance
20:25 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Gpl virus heh
20:27 ar10ch anyway 'll go look at the docs.
20:27 DS-minetest https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.en.html#GPLCompatibleLicenses suggests to use Apache2.0 over MIT/X11
20:27 DS-minetest I'd like to know whether that patent thing is something that one would really want to have
20:27 * ar10ch goes to look at "the docs"
20:28 MTDiscord <y5nw> For me the consideration is simple. If someone had a fork and licensed it under a different license, I might not have the right to use the code from that fork
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20:33 MTDiscord <Warr1024> IIRC the Apache2 license has some weird indemnification thing in it, and that forced OpenBSD to hold back on Apache 1.3 until they could switch to nginx.  Stick with MIT or ISC, or a BSD 2-clause if you must.  Those are as close to a "do with it whatever and leave me alone" license as you'll likely get.
20:34 MTDiscord <Jordach> MIT is the license closes to: it just works take it or leave it
20:35 MTDiscord <Warr1024> MT modding doesn't lean heavily in favor of any particular permissive license so I'd go MIT, as part of the broader permissive culture.  I like ISC personally but only npm and OpenBSD seem to really love it.
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20:38 MTDiscord <Jordach> one is niche the other is everywhere
20:38 DS-minetest I'd like to have something where you can bundle the licensed software in any other software, as long as you cite the source, but if you are using a modified version of my software in your published software, you have to publish the changed version of my software under a free software
20:38 DS-minetest license*
20:38 MTDiscord <Jordach> cam you guess which?
20:38 MTDiscord <Jordach> agpl
20:38 DS-minetest is there some license where this holds?
20:38 MTDiscord <Jordach> AGPL3
20:39 MTDiscord <Jonathon> I like the show your changes, but not the gpl virus part of agpl
20:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I publish my stuff under MIT because I want to ensure it's published at least once under a sufficiently free license.
20:39 MTDiscord <Jordach> it's better than the alternative
20:40 MTDiscord <Jonathon> Most people keep it open source of there forks if they go mainstream in mt anyways
20:40 MTDiscord <Jonathon> So mit is what i use
20:40 MTDiscord <Warr1024> MIT is viral psychologically/culturally, just not legally.
20:42 MTDiscord <Jordach> MIT fosters actual communual development
20:42 MTDiscord <Jordach> while GPL is source or die
20:42 MTDiscord <Warr1024> I understand wanting to create community, but I'd rather allow it to happen than mandate it.
20:44 ar10ch pander to those that have no idea what they want to achieve, and who's reach is  well beyond there abilities and curtail the efforts of those with achievable and progressive aspirations... those that are gradually learning to do more. More than set up a server or focus on creating a minigame. I want to learn it all. And present the results for the world to see and enjoy. In the meantime, I guess I'll go and "Read the docs"
20:44 ar10ch again.
20:48 DS-minetest AGPL3's §13 sounds like you don't have to open-source the modified version of the software if you sell it. (if you didn't buy, you can't interact with it, and hence have no right to see the src, meh)
20:48 Extexo How would I style a scroll container? (Scrollbar included)
20:48 DS-minetest Extexo: what do u mean with "style"?
20:48 VanessaE you can't.
20:48 Extexo Oof
20:48 VanessaE the most you can do is turn off the background or border and then use an image
20:49 DS-minetest there's scrollbar_options if that's what u r looking for
20:49 Extexo So the scrollbar is stuck default?
20:49 VanessaE but the scrollbar can't be styled :(
20:49 VanessaE neither can dropdowns/comboboxes :(
20:49 DS-minetest you can style the scroll_container's scrollbar as much as other scrollbars
20:49 VanessaE er no?
20:49 VanessaE check the api
20:49 VanessaE there's nothing of substance.
20:50 Extexo Oof
20:50 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> @DivideByZero In case you are still there (can't check from discord): Mods may only contain lowercase letters not uppercase ones
20:50 VanessaE scrollbaroptions doesn't alter colors
20:50 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2585
20:51 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Also if your mod contains a "-master" remove that
20:51 DS-minetest yeah, as I said, as much as other scrollbars, which might be not much
20:52 DS-minetest the scrollbar for the scroll_container needs to be added manually, so you always also have a scrollbar element
20:52 DS-minetest btw
20:53 Extexo 😎 (was trying to beautify HUDs)
20:53 Extexo https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/780505995323375637/818586912797229093/Screenshot_2021-03-08-12-50-37.png
20:53 VanessaE nice
20:54 Extexo https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/780505995323375637/818587442261131294/Screenshot_2021-03-08-12-54-05.png
20:54 VanessaE when I get the "themeing engine" (if you can call it that) done for Dreambuilder, I hope you
20:54 VanessaE will make one based on that ^
20:54 VanessaE :)
20:55 Extexo Still don't know how to remove the default button from behind my 9sliced one
20:55 DS-minetest uh, the scrollbar in the 2nd screenshot looks awful
20:55 Extexo But otherwise it's looking pretty good
20:55 Extexo Yeah because I can't style it
20:55 Extexo That's why I'm asking, lol
20:56 ar10ch !docs apparently
21:00 Krock Extexo: I wish there was more contrast but it looks very cool already
21:03 Extexo Kk I'll do some experimenting
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21:12 ar10ch My "Vision" is this: Join. If you know what you're doing then skip the next few steps. Else.. If you need help (Igot sick of servers where weirdos ask for houses to be built for them - so i made a mod for that) you can move on to the college and learn more technical stuff, or u can skip that too. Go straight on to QUESTS. I've been working hard on devising these. In the meantime there's a bunch of sidegames, like the 2012
21:12 ar10ch ufo got made into a podracer course, the nautilus mod (in a suitable environment) has projectiles for "battleships" and when I get time I want skyblocks as a "realm" - actually it doesn't need to be it just needs to be a bit up in the y - like 128 or summat. Anyone interested in helping to realise this dream - I'm here. Theres loadsa ppl cleverer than me that could do this in their sleep but this is my goal.. and I think its
21:12 ar10ch a good one.. I may have missed bits out
21:13 ar10ch I did miss a step - if u need help: start at the academy
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21:14 ar10ch anyone can do what they want but the facilities are there
21:14 ar10ch I envision robot tutors
21:15 mckayshirou joined #minetest
21:16 ar10ch My son (10yo) has made a bunch of blocks for a thing called "Parkour" - which is jumping around a bit I think
21:16 ar10ch Thats his mod tho - included in this server idea
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21:18 ar10ch If anyone wishes to lend a hand - things may go a lot quicker and be a lot more fun :)
21:24 ar10ch I've done most of it - if I didn't mention that already
21:25 ar10ch like 99%
21:28 Extexo Krock:  https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/074247275d4e8258/CollageMaker_202138132738154.jpg
21:28 Extexo Obviously the inventory would have to change to account for the background
21:34 ar10ch meh
21:37 ar10ch ah well. the worries of home-hosting would cause too much anxiety anyway - especially with a second admin
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21:54 ar10ch i should have learned by now that me and collaboration never go hand-in-hand
21:54 ar10ch fuck it
22:03 ar10ch Gonna leave b4 I get really upset. ps. Docs have been read (again). Not a good day.
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22:23 VanessaE ...
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22:52 ar10ch I apologise for earlier when I suggested I would co-author a world and home-host it. I realise it's a big ask to expect someone to tie up those loose ends - it's a big ask of myself also to continue doing what i'm doing, research and implement security measures etc. It's a lot to look into. And tying up those loose ends must be tougth too.. Erm.. maybe..
22:52 ar10ch It ain't gonna happen - don't worry ;)
22:57 * VanessaE pokes at Krock
23:08 MTDiscord <Jonathon> gives VanessaE a cattle prod
23:09 VanessaE I'm just trying to get him to give me the green light so I can merge that PR I've been working on, so I can move on to something else that I *don't* have to wait for someone else on :)
23:10 MTDiscord <Jonathon> seems like a cattle prod might be more useful
23:10 MTDiscord <Jonathon> :p
23:10 VanessaE :P
23:13 ar10ch nice to see that - how folks get on n chat n make things happen. (sigh) I'm too tired to try anymore
23:13 ar10ch left #minetest
23:14 MTDiscord <Jonathon> if you want quests, look at the awards mod, or some of the quest apis people have created
23:15 MTDiscord <Jonathon> *to make
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23:56 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Use place_param2 client-side for item appearance & prediction (#11024) bf8fb26 https://git.io/JqLgF (2021-03-08T23:56:53Z)
23:57 ramirez joined #minetest
23:59 MinetestBot [git] Lejo1 -> minetest/minetest: Fix missing jsoncpp in the Docker image 13b50f5 https://git.io/JqL2J (2021-03-08T23:57:12Z)

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