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IRC log for #minetest, 2021-03-07

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Time Nick Message
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00:06 nisa_ hi
00:06 julius ji
00:06 julius hi
00:07 VanessaE ok, 9-slicing is my new favorite option, and I guess it ain't even all that new ;)
00:07 Extexo Yee 9 slicing is the way of the future
00:07 VanessaE https://i.imgur.com/oaRXygp.png  (this is on top of the formspec v4 rewrite, see previously-mentioned pull req)
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00:37 Extexo Is there a way to disable to default background so I can have transparency in the button
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01:24 Extexo https://thelounge.bloblet.com/uploads/953c1a605f44702c/Screenshot_2021-03-06-17-24-04.png
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01:48 cheapie What exactly is the "WARNING[Main]: No craft recipe matches input" message supposed to mean? It doesn't seem to be that big of a deal, but it's unhappy about /something/, and I have no idea at all what that message is trying to say or even what it's trying to say it about.
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02:02 MTDiscord <Jordach> it's implying that theres no way to craft it i think
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05:49 cheapie I'm sure you've all seen MS Paint before. How about MT Paint? https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210306_234329.png
05:49 cheapie Works, too, except the File and About menus aren't implemented yet.
05:49 cheapie Back side: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20210306_233200.png
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06:03 MTDiscord <Jordach> what on earth are those frozen looking cables
06:04 cheapie Those are from https://github.com/numberZero/digiline_routing
06:04 cheapie Yes, I know the textures suck, but... not my mod :P
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06:06 cheapie The reason for the complex wiring arrangement is that I needed messages from the LuaC to go to the GPU, messages (image data) from the GPU to go to the display, and messages (touch events) to go from the display to the LuaC, but for messages from the GPU to *not* go to the LuaC, except on a specific channel designated for that purpose.
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07:07 DivideByZero Does anyone know how to remove stuck breads on the screen leftover from a hunger mod that was removed?
07:07 DivideByZero Looking for a solution other than deleting my entire world and recreating it.
07:08 DivideByZero I'm not against hand editing files, if someone could point me in the right direction.
07:13 DivideByZero And if this information helps, the hunger mods I tried out were hunger_ng & hbhunger.  Not sure which left the bread on my screen. Have tried reenabling both mods and disabling them, but the stuck breads never go away.
07:15 DivideByZero PS: enabled them separatly, never at the same time.
07:32 DivideByZero Here is a screenshot of the stuck bread:  https://upload.picpaste.me/image/QcaBo
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07:57 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> "Stuck" HUD elements even after removing the mod should not be possible by design...the engine reloads everything from scratch after you close your client/shutdown your server...my guess is that you have another hunger mod still somewhere
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08:16 DivideByZero Thanks MTDiscord, I don't, but I'll check my mods list again just to be 100% certain. Possibly maybe some other mod gives hunger that I was unaware of though. I'll look into that also. Thanks for the information.
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08:17 DivideByZero I'm also going to try full shutdown of the server, and see if that helps. Previously I just used 'systemctl restart..'
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08:33 DivideByZero Fullshutdown didn't solve it, looking into other things now.
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11:13 MTDiscord <Gerold55> Oh wow I was hoping something like this was possible
11:14 MTDiscord <Gerold55> But I was hoping they'd work with my laptop and printer mod lol
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11:27 tech_exorcist is it just me, or there isn't the "Sand Stair" block? https://wiki.minetest.net/Stair seems to confirm that, but "This page was last modified on 6 March 2019, at 16:36." and I'm using Minetest 5.3.0
11:27 * tech_exorcist downloads and builds the new version
11:28 tech_exorcist if I git pull the code, can I just run make to only rebuild the parts that were changed? MT takes ~20 minutes to be built on this computer
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11:35 VanessaE damn it Krock, quit poking holes in my code, it's already practically swiss cheese ;)
11:36 Krock VanessaE: let's melt it to a fondue
11:36 VanessaE haha
11:36 tech_exorcist ?
11:36 VanessaE I think I've resolved all your remarks other than the things I said I'd do later
11:37 VanessaE tech_exorcist: referring to a pull request he and I are working on
11:37 tech_exorcist ok
11:39 VanessaE tech_exorcist: as for compiling, it's already been 10 mins, what's another 10? ;)  as for "sand" stairs, that wouldn't make sense, since sand normally can't hold itself together to make such a thing, but there are sandstone stairs.
11:39 VanessaE same reason there aren't gravel stairs
11:39 tech_exorcist ok
11:40 tech_exorcist re compiling: I didn't start compiling :-)
11:41 VanessaE though now that you mention it... I should write a mod to add sand and gravel slopes and slabs, since those DO make sense, so long as they can only sit on the ground (i.e. no rotation onto walls or upside down)
11:41 tech_exorcist hmm, the game crashed when I tried to lay down in a bed
11:42 tech_exorcist wtf
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12:15 VanessaE Krock: it seems there's an errant webhook on the unified_inventory repo that's creating contendb releases of more than just the master branch.  can you fix it?  I don't have sufficient access.
12:17 Krock I don't know how to correct that but I can remove the "pending approval" releases
12:18 Krock rubenwardy: !!
12:20 VanessaE the webhook will be on github.
12:21 Krock deactivated the webhook for now
12:21 VanessaE thanks :)
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12:29 VanessaE Krock: you sure converting stuff over to string.format() is appropriate for this PR?  I have nothing better to do anyway :)
12:29 VanessaE (also the `local ui = unified_inventory` thing is easy to do if it makes sense to do it now)
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13:26 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Set ENABLE_SYSTEM_JSONCPP to TRUE by default dcb30a5 https://git.io/Jqklq (2021-03-07T13:26:09Z)
13:29 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Predict failing placement of ignore nodes d9b78d6 https://git.io/JqklZ (2021-03-07T13:26:50Z)
13:29 nisa_ ^ are these commits?
13:30 sfan5 yes
13:31 MTDiscord <Phillip> is anyone playing online?
13:32 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Check servers.minetest.net
13:32 nisa_ Ah nice
13:33 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> If you mouseover the player count of each server you see the usernames
13:34 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> On mobile it works by holding it down and moving a few px I think
13:35 MTDiscord <IhrFussel> Or just tapping may work as well
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14:47 DivideByZero Still unable to solve my stuck bread issue:  https://upload.picpaste.me/image/QcaBo
14:48 rubenwardy VanessaE, Krock: https://github.com/minetest/contentdb/commit/9cb9f8a4f6b7f51eae05abf47dc04943fbc14e8c
14:48 rubenwardy !title
14:48 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Hotfix: Prevent webhooks from running on non-master/main branches · minetest/contentdb@9cb9f8a · GitHub
14:50 VanessaE 👍
14:50 DivideByZero Anyone have any insights to offer why brea icons might be leftover on the screen after removing a hunger mod?
14:50 DivideByZero bread
14:52 DivideByZero and by icons, I mean the HUD graphics for the hunger bar.
14:55 rubenwardy I can't reproduce the inability to delete releases locally, but I can by signing in as VanessaE in production
14:56 rubenwardy wait
14:56 rubenwardy it's because it's checking for owner status, not maintainer
14:59 sfan5 DivideByZero: maybe the mod that manages the hudbars stores the old values
14:59 sfan5 but that'd be very weird imo
15:00 DivideByZero sfan5: How could I check this?
15:00 VanessaE rubenwardy: yeah, I figured that was the case...  but who should the author even *be* on UI?  I mean, RBA passed away some years ago, and it's in minetest-mods now.....
15:00 rubenwardy unfortunately, you can't currently change authors without breaking installs
15:01 VanessaE oh.
15:01 rubenwardy breaking installs meaning that they won't ever update
15:01 rubenwardy author name is part of the primary key
15:03 DivideByZero sfan5: I have even tried disabling the hudbars mod and it's still there. It's not showing the bar from HUD bar though, it's showing the bread icons from the non-HUD bars implementation.
15:03 sfan5 are you sure the hunger mod is gone then?
15:04 DivideByZero Perhaps upgrading the mods caused it to be stuck? Is that a possibility?
15:04 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
15:04 sfan5 nothing is impossible
15:04 DivideByZero I set them to = false in the world.mt
15:05 DivideByZero then restarted the server, and also tried full shutdown and start again.
15:06 DivideByZero Also the bread icons aren't even appearing in the place they should be. they are showing over the health bar, with or without HUD_bars enabled.
15:06 DivideByZero and mis-aligned also.
15:06 DivideByZero as seen in the screenshot: https://upload.picpaste.me/image/QcaBo
15:07 DivideByZero When I reactivate a hunger mod, the normal bars or breads appear in the proper location, but the stuck breads stay where they are.
15:08 sfan5 I can only suggest disabling mods one-by-one until it goes away here
15:08 DivideByZero Yikes.
15:09 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Mods are more often designed to be able to be added gracefully to an existing world than to be removed.  Sometimes they leave behind some junk, in the map, or in metadata, that might need to be manually cleaned up.
15:09 DivideByZero Do any other mods besides hunger_ng & hbhunger give breads for hunger?  Someone else suggested that earlier, but reading through all the mods, none seem obvious to do that.
15:09 MTDiscord <Warr1024> At least in the case of metadata it's often possible to clean stuff up via scripts...
15:10 DivideByZero Someone earlier told me opposite to that information, because that was my original plan and question...
15:10 DivideByZero "[02:57] <MTDiscord> <IhrFussel> "Stuck" HUD elements even after removing the mod should not be possible by design...the engine reloads everything from scratch after you close your client/shutdown your server...my guess is that you have another hunger mod still somewhere"
15:11 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It's also possible a mod may register itself with some helper/library mod so that that other mod persists its changes across restarts, even if the mod is absent, and mods might change the names they register under, and not necessarily provide a migration path either.
15:11 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It could be another hunger mod (e.g. maybe you had one in shared mods and another in world mods) or it could be a HUD library, or some multi-library that includes HUD stuff, somewhere.
15:11 DivideByZero Warrior: That sounds like it answers my question if upgrading a mod could have caused it to be stuck as so.
15:12 MTDiscord <Warr1024> The engine does not persist HUDs, only mods can do it.  However, which mod is actually doing it is not enforced by the engine.
15:12 DivideByZero Do you have any suggestions for manual cleanup? What file to look for?
15:12 MTDiscord <Warr1024> my guess would be that HUDs would be stored in either mod or player metadata.
15:13 DivideByZero and where do I find those files?
15:13 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Player metadata is inside the player database, mod metadata is either in mod_storage inside the world, or in custom files somewhere in the world dir.
15:13 DivideByZero ok, I'll poke around and have a look. Thanks for the suggestions.
15:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Basically it's all in the world dir somewhere but hopefully you shouldn't have to pick apart map.sqlite or anything, and that should significantly reduce the number of total bytes you have to scan through, at least.
15:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Wherever you find it, it MAY be intertwined with other data you DO want to keep, so be careful.
15:14 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you plan to try to make any modifications by hand to clean anything up, always remember to take a backup snapshot of your world first!
15:15 DivideByZero I don't see it in players.sqlite, I see hp and breath, but nothing about hunger there.
15:15 DivideByZero Neither 'satiation'
15:16 MTDiscord <Warr1024> player_metadata is the most likely table I'd look in, within the player database.
15:17 DivideByZero if that's not players.sqlite, which name is the file I'm looking for?
15:18 DivideByZero and no files in mod_storage seem hunger related either.
15:18 MTDiscord <Warr1024> you aren't necessarily looking for hunger either, could be anything HUD-related
15:18 MTDiscord <Warr1024> or anything mentioning bread, based on the texture...
15:19 DivideByZero Nothing HUD related in mod_storage files there are:  advmarkers, awards, ban_hacker, draconis, goblins, moon_phases, rhotator, servercleaner, skinsdb
15:19 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If this doesn't pan out, then I guess you'd be back to bisecting your mods until you figure out which one you can enable/disable to affect the HUD, and then diving into that mod to understand how it's recreating that HUD each time.
15:22 DivideByZero and in the world folder is:  areas.dat, auth.sqlite, bed_spawns, env_meta.txt, force_loaded.txt, hotbar_settings (nothing in there except size of hotbar), ipban.txt, luaentities, map_meta.txt, map.sqlite, mesecon_actionqueue, news.txt, players.sqlite, teleport_tubes, unified_inventory_home.home (leftover from unified inventory before I switched to sf_inv, but only a home pos is in there), world.mt, xban.db
15:24 DivideByZero I've checked all these files.
15:24 DivideByZero Unless there are files somewhere else I need to check, it's not in there.
15:24 DivideByZero Do files get placed in other folders? Using Linux.
15:25 sfan5 here's a suggestion: create a new world, join and see if there's bread
15:27 DivideByZero no breads there.
15:28 DivideByZero I'm hoping to not have to delete my main world though. Stuff has been built, and other people of the public have played.
15:28 sfan5 you certainly won't
15:28 DivideByZero I guess I'll do your suggestion and start disabling mods.
15:28 DivideByZero It will take me awhile, but I'll report back when I've finished. Thank you all for the suggestions.
15:29 DivideByZero I'll keep my eye open in here too in case anyone thinks of any other suggestions.
15:30 DivideByZero I have 326 mods installed, sounds like a lot, but before I tried upgrading they all worked together.
15:31 DivideByZero It would be a nice feature request if more mods could be built into the main game, then less stuff would need to be added second party.
15:32 DivideByZero A question before I start disabling mods: Can removing mods mess up my world? Are there important mods I should not disable?
15:33 DivideByZero Disabling fences removed all fences in my world. Will it come back? Or all fences need to be created afterwards?
15:33 DivideByZero removed *some* fences.
15:33 sfan5 if you're concerned about that you should make a backup first anyway
15:34 DivideByZero OK, good call.
15:34 sfan5 also no, nodes will turn into unknown nodes (do NOT try to interact with them) but will turn back when you enable the mod again
15:34 DivideByZero Good to know. Thanks once again for sharing your knowledge.
15:35 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Frankly, I'd always be worried that changing something would mess up my world...
15:37 DivideByZero Warrior: I didn't think the world was that fragile. I'll have to be more careful upgrading mods in the future.
15:38 MTDiscord <Warr1024> How fragile a world is depends very much on how fragile the mods are that you have enabled in the world, and that's not something we can provide any guarantees about.
15:38 DivideByZero Many mods seem to put their info in their own files (which I like much better) rather than appending to a world file.
15:39 DivideByZero Perhaps that should be a general requirement for mod makers.
15:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> Mod authors should ensure it's safe to upgrade their mods, but I just can't promise that they all will.  If you find one that isn't, though, IMO you should report it to the mod author as a bug.
15:40 DivideByZero I will do that certainly, once I am sure which mod caused the issue.
15:40 MTDiscord <Warr1024> It's not that upgrade safety isn't a general "requirement" already, it's just that it's not generally enforceable.
15:41 DivideByZero If it's on github, because I can't get my gitlab account to authorize, they are having some email confirmation issues. If it's on gitlab perhaps someone with a working account can report it if I provide them the info.
15:41 DivideByZero for the requirement I meant: making the mod put info in only its own files, not any world files from the base game.
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15:55 DivideByZero I disabled all the mods, and breads are now gone from the screen.
15:56 DivideByZero Now I'll have to enable them one at a time and see if the breads come back or stay gone.
15:57 DivideByZero I may have to do this in the other direction (removing mods one at a time) to figure which mod was the culprit if the breads don't return.
15:57 DivideByZero Second thought, maybe I'll do it in that order in the first place, so I don't have to do this a second time. :D
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16:05 VanessaE Krock: new commits for you to lose your mind over ;)
16:05 Krock oh no
16:05 VanessaE I swear, by the time I'm done I'll have rewritten 90% of this mod :)
16:05 Krock and that's for good
16:05 Krock certain places look so horrible
16:05 VanessaE well I hope the code is less horrible now. :)
16:06 Krock I actually have this on my ToDo but never found the motivation to actually begin with it
16:06 Krock also the open PRs would first need to be rejected/postponed in order to do it properly
16:07 VanessaE well as I've gone through it, the only truly egregious part, to my mind, is where the crafting guide is drawn, and in particular how the mod decides how big to make the buttons/grid (it supports 4x4 and 5x5 recipes and amazingly it still displays fine)
16:11 Krock it looks so much cleaner now <3
16:11 VanessaE heheh
16:12 VanessaE RBA, may he rest in peace, was not one for clean code I suppose.   For that matter, it wasn't exactly top of my list when I added the "lite" mode :)
16:13 Krock it did work tho
16:13 VanessaE yep
16:17 VanessaE incidentally, I think there are enough positional variables and general flexibility that I could make the bags and waypoints work in lite mode also.  The only downside to that would be that there's only room for two rows of main buttons, and adding those two would leave only enough room for three more in the second row, or in Dreambuilder, just one more.
16:18 Krock rubenwardy: should "min_minetest_version" be used in mod.conf to assist contentdb or is it a no-go?
16:19 rubenwardy yes, it should be for reliability
16:19 VanessaE it already is.
16:19 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Protect dropping from far node inventories 176f586 https://git.io/Jqkg6 (2021-03-07T16:18:02Z)
16:19 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Protect per-player detached inventory actions fc86402 https://git.io/Jqkgi (2021-03-07T16:18:02Z)
16:19 Krock thanks
16:19 VanessaE of course I could just shrink the buttons and make room for three rows, but that wouldn't coordinate well with the item buttons above them
16:20 rubenwardy documented here: https://content.minetest.net/help/package_config/
16:20 Krock rubenwardy: good to know. I observed this a few times already but wasn't sure whether it's okay to add it
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16:27 VanessaE ok here's one that'll bake your noodle..  would it be practical to 9-slice the single inventory slot image, and then tile the result to create a full 8x4 slot inv image?
16:28 Krock would at least be way more reliable than an image
16:28 Krock but the formspec data would become kinda long. perhaps 50 characters per inventory slot
16:28 VanessaE hm, there isn't a proper image9[] element.
16:29 VanessaE (background*[] is not appropriate to use on top of another background*[] imho)
16:29 Krock hmm
16:30 Krock styling buttons is possible, but I've indeed not seen a 9-sliced background image used like that
16:30 VanessaE background9[X,Y;1,1;ui_single_slot.png;16]  43 chars. :)
16:30 Krock X and Y may be 2 digits but yes, my guess was pretty close
16:30 VanessaE *nod*
16:31 VanessaE UI used to have a number of background[] elements scattered around, being used improperly where image[] should have been used, but that's just my opinion.
16:31 VanessaE (I fixed them all in the initial v4 rewrite)
16:31 rubenwardy backgrounds can go on backgrounds
16:31 VanessaE I know.
16:31 rubenwardy the only difference is  1) backgrounds can auto scale to formspec size    and    2) backgrounds render before everything else
16:32 rubenwardy whereas from FSv3, elements render in order
16:32 VanessaE but it's still "wrong" :)
16:32 rubenwardy it's not necessarily wrong if it's background behind an element
16:33 VanessaE btw, I didn't notice (because my eyes suck), but does 9-slicing display the split up tiles at the user's display resolution, or are they scaled first by e.g. their local gui scaling?
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16:34 DivideByZero seems restoring my backup from zip file has made things worse, I can't load the world at all now with error: A fatal error occurred: Couldn't save env meta
16:41 VanessaE Krock: naturally I'd make a helper function that'd take coordinates and total size and return a string ready to display, so from a coding standpoint it would be super easy to use.  besides, however ig a formspec string gets shouldn't matter.  it's only a few kb of text, it should not be slow to iterate through :)
16:42 VanessaE but if the displayed images wouldn't be at the user's native display resolution, then it would be pointless.
16:43 VanessaE (mainly I'd do this because MT uses nearest neighbor scaling instead of something nice like lanczos or even just cubic :)
16:43 VanessaE )
16:46 VanessaE though building it up from the single slot image would also mean I'd only need that one image (plus the arrow image for the crafting grid)
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17:41 VanessaE Krock: because I'm an idiot, could you re-propose your table.copy() suggestion, but test it this time? ;)
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17:41 VanessaE (I prefer to credit/blame as appropriate, even if it's just one line ;) )
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17:52 DivideByZero I finally solved this issue: "A fatal error occurred: Couldn't save env meta", seems that restoring from backup messed up all the file ownership. which needed to be 'sudo chown -R Debian-minetest:games', even though previously they were root:root.
17:53 DivideByZero Now I'm back to working on my original issue about the breads.
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18:02 DivideByZero I found the mod that was causing the breads icon issue, it was Tenplus1's stamina mod. And after reading through it more carefully it does show the bread icons, so it's not a bug but a feature. Nothing to report to mod creator.
18:03 DivideByZero I previously had thought stamina only added stamina to the game not hunger stuff as well.
18:04 DivideByZero I learned a lot during this process, and I'm happy to have my server back in working condition.
18:05 DivideByZero Thank you to everyone who offered suggestions and support.
18:05 * VanessaE shakes Krock vigorously
18:06 VanessaE DivideByZero: you're welcome, not that I did anything :)
18:06 Krock VanessaE: can you please calm down? u_i won't run away and I'm busy playing uno
18:06 Krock priorities c'mon
18:08 DivideByZero VanessaE: Even if you didn't help me, thank you anyways for all the great work you've done for the Minetest community. :D
18:10 VanessaE Krock: heh ok :)
18:11 VanessaE Krock: try Skip-Bo some time.  I always had fun playing that growing up, though I don't remember how now :)
18:13 DivideByZero Debian only offers Minetest 0.4.17, and 5.3.0 with backports.  Seems they won't have minetest-server 5.* for awhile.  Is there a way to upgrade my server with git to a newer version on Debian? And will building it myself still give the ability to start with systemctl service?
18:13 Krock VanessaE: I wish that were easy to implement in a text bot :(
18:13 VanessaE heh
18:14 VanessaE DivideByZero: so don't run stale. run sid. :)
18:14 DivideByZero what's 'sid' ?
18:14 VanessaE deb's 'unstable' branch
18:14 VanessaE named for the kid in Toy Story, natch
18:14 DivideByZero What version does that offer?
18:14 VanessaE you know, I didn't actually look...
18:15 VanessaE but you can just roll your own, too
18:15 VanessaE I do, on Deb testing
18:15 Taserface dividebyzero: using a snap is an option
18:15 DivideByZero I used to think Deb was good for being stable, but sometimes it's not even that stable, and it's always way out of date.  Unfortunately that pc that runs my server is only 32bit and I can't get Manjaro on it.
18:16 VanessaE out of date hence, "stale" :)
18:16 DivideByZero How would I go about 'rolling my own' ?
18:16 VanessaE maybe switch to a source code based distro?  like -funroll-loops -ftype-r-sticker -fvelocity-stacks   ;)
18:16 DivideByZero And will upgrading the server version mess up my world?
18:17 VanessaE follow the build instructions in the readme, and no.  worlds are always backward compatible, though I can't speak for the behavior of the mods you use.
18:17 MTDiscord <Jonathon> you most likely will have to upgrade mods if going from 0.4x to 5x
18:17 DivideByZero Debian sid only offers: minetest (5.3.0+repack-2)
18:17 VanessaE oh wait, I forgot -fracing-stripes   :)
18:18 VanessaE (obviously I'm referring to Gentoo)
18:18 DivideByZero Well the reason I wanted to upgrade was because I updated all my mods, and now some are too new to work on the 5.3.0 server.
18:19 DivideByZero So I was thinking if everything was up to date it should all work? or mostly at least. :P
18:19 VanessaE it will.
18:19 DivideByZero I updated a few of your mods, and they won't work anymore with 5.3.0
18:19 VanessaE I have 5.4.0 and all mods are up-to-date as of a week ago or so, plus I run a bunch of servers on it/them.
18:19 DivideByZero If I remember correctly they need version 4.*
18:19 VanessaE nope
18:19 DivideByZero 5.* ?
18:19 VanessaE none of my mods require 0.4.x
18:20 DivideByZero sorry I meant 5.4.*
18:20 DivideByZero But I see the newest is 5.5.0
18:20 VanessaE no
18:20 VanessaE the newest is 5.4.0
18:20 DivideByZero I have 5.5.0-dev**** on this PC, but I built it from github.
18:20 VanessaE "5.5.0" would just be the development code.
18:20 Krock 5.5.0-dev is a development version prior to 5.5.0 stable
18:21 VanessaE it's still essentially 5.4.0 right now
18:21 VanessaE given how new that release is
18:21 DivideByZero yes, I have the 5.5.0-dev on this computer for the client.
18:21 DivideByZero It may be newer than I need, but I also kept the 5.3.0 version too.
18:21 DivideByZero But the server 5.3.0 needs to be updated for the new mods.
18:22 DivideByZero I run the dedicated server 'minetest-server' not the client server.
18:23 DivideByZero is there a github repository for the 'minetest-server' vs 'minetest'.
18:24 DivideByZero I googled it but couldn't find it.
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18:26 numzero no, both minetest and minetestserver are built from the same repository
18:26 numzero there are cmake flags: BUILD_CLIENT and BUILD_SERVER
18:26 DivideByZero Oh, because on debian it is two seperate installs.
18:27 numzero splitting packages is common on Debian
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18:27 DivideByZero Well that solves some confusion.
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18:29 DivideByZero So how would I specify to make the inetest-server? cmake . ?
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18:29 MTDiscord <y5nw> IIRC: cmake . -DBUILD_SERVER=1
18:30 DivideByZero Is there directions for this somewhere I can read through? Vanessa mentioned that.
18:30 MTDiscord <y5nw> http://github.com/minetest/minetest
18:31 DivideByZero Oh right on the main github page, ok.
18:31 MTDiscord <y5nw> It's in the readme there
18:31 DivideByZero thank you.
18:33 DivideByZero "You can build a bare server by specifying -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE."
18:33 VanessaE 1 or TRUE, both usually work.
18:34 DivideByZero That must be the command I was looking for?
18:34 DivideByZero ok.
18:34 DivideByZero Will this give the dev version or the 5.4.0 ?
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18:35 MTDiscord <y5nw> From the master branch it should give the dev version (afaik)
18:35 VanessaE if you just clone as the readme says, you'll get 5.5.0-dev
18:37 DivideByZero Is that what I should go for, or should I get the 5.4.0-stable?  What version do you run Vanessa?
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18:38 MTDiscord <y5nw> I think the stable version is on stable-5
18:38 VanessaE I have 5.4.0-release on both my PC and my public servers
18:39 VanessaE (which is to say, I git pulled the sources, reset to the commit where 5.4.0 was tagged, then built.)
18:39 MTDiscord <Warr1024> If you're looking to play, I'd always try to use the latest stable release.  If you're looking to mod, you might want the latest dev snapshot ... or both, really.
18:39 DivideByZero I'm looking to play mostly, have only done minimal mod stuff so far.
18:39 DivideByZero And I want others to be able to play on my server too.
18:40 MTDiscord <Warr1024> 5.x versions have pretty broad compatibility in general
18:40 MTDiscord <Warr1024> whether other people can join using 5.x versions or not would have more to do with the mods you choose
18:40 VanessaE as a rule, if it ran under say, 0.4.15 or so, it'll run on everything newer
18:41 MTDiscord <Warr1024> usually I think people can still technically join, but some aspects of what the mods do may appear broken for players on versions too old.
18:41 VanessaE but the reverse naturally isn'tso.
18:41 DivideByZero So if I want the 5.4.0 can I get that with 'git' command?
18:41 VanessaE DivideByZero: yes
18:41 VanessaE clone or pull, then `git reset --hard f3e51dc`
18:41 DivideByZero I never ran the 0.4.17 server, I've only made this server a couple months ago. So I started off with 5.3.0
18:42 VanessaE or I think you can use the tag instead of the commit
18:42 DivideByZero so clone it like normal, then run `git reset --hard f3e51dc`, then make it?
18:42 VanessaE yep
18:42 VanessaE that commit is when 5.4.0 was tagged as stable
18:43 VanessaE couple weeks ago)
18:43 VanessaE though usually you can just pull right up to HEAD and it'll probably work fine
18:43 DivideByZero I should uninstall the 5.3.0 server first? Or it won't matter?
18:44 VanessaE you should uninstall it since it came from Debian
18:44 DivideByZero ok.
18:44 VanessaE don't wanna cause confusion
18:44 VanessaE fwiw, I build mine as run-in-place
18:44 DivideByZero and the new version should work with the systemctl like the current one does?
18:44 VanessaE so if I wanted, I could install whatever Debian offers, as an alternate
18:45 VanessaE idk about systemctl
18:45 VanessaE like I said I use run-in-place, which by definition wouldn't use that feature even if it can.
18:45 DivideByZero How do you keep your servers auto starting and restarting?
18:46 VanessaE I use a simple script which, at the bottom of it all, isn't much more than #!/bin/bash  <do setup stuff>   while true; do minetestserver <lots of params> ; sleep 30; done
18:46 DivideByZero ok.
18:47 DivideByZero And now I can thank you for helping me too, since you have now. :D Thank you!
18:47 * VanessaE throws down a "Wild, Draw Four" card in front of Krock  ;)
18:47 VanessaE heh
18:48 VanessaE I said nothing that you couldn't find in the readme or on superuser or stackoverflow ;)
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18:55 DivideByZero Vanessa: you were still helpful to me, and I appreciate that.
18:56 VanessaE I try :)
18:56 VanessaE good luck
18:56 DivideByZero Thanks for wishing me luck too, I may need it. :D
18:58 MTDiscord <Jordach> we playing UNO
18:58 VanessaE Jordach: well Krock may be, but I'm just trolling him ;)
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19:06 Panquesito7 Did someone ping me? :P
19:09 DivideByZero for the cmake command, can I do this: 'cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE' or does this need to be 2 separate commands like 'cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE' & then 'cmake . -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE'
19:09 VanessaE one command.
19:09 DivideByZero ok :)
19:13 DivideByZero Oh no, i got errors in cmake
19:13 DivideByZero I think I am missing dependancies.
19:14 DivideByZero dependencies
19:18 DivideByZero I thought the dependencies would be fulfilled since I just had the server installed.
19:19 DivideByZero I can't find irrlicht in Debian to install it.
19:20 DivideByZero Oh I found it's called "libirrlicht-dev"
19:21 DivideByZero this should be all I need: 'sudo apt install g++ make libc6-dev libirrlicht-dev cmake libbz2-dev libpng-dev libjpeg-dev libxxf86vm-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libsqlite3-dev libogg-dev libvorbis-dev libopenal-dev libcurl4-gnutls-dev libfreetype6-dev zlib1g-dev libgmp-dev libjsoncpp-dev'
19:28 DivideByZero how important is GettextLib ?
19:29 DivideByZero It says not found, but the make seemed successful.
19:30 DivideByZero cmake seemed successful I meant.
19:31 MTDiscord <y5nw> Afaik gettext is only used for translations. Not sure if it's for server- or client-side though
19:31 DivideByZero I'm building the server from github
19:32 sfan5 you dont need gettext then
19:32 DivideByZero thanks
19:33 sfan5 and you don't need any of libpng-dev libjpeg-dev libxxf86vm-dev libgl1-mesa-dev libogg-dev libvorbis-dev libopenal-dev libfreetype6-dev either
19:33 DivideByZero Already installed those though, no harm right?
19:35 sfan5 doesn't hurt
19:35 sfan5 it's just not needed
19:35 DivideByZero ok, only wasted 40 mbs, i can live with that, or remove them after I get the server running.
19:36 DivideByZero it's making, takes awhile on the old server pc. I heard the fan kick in to overdrive to cool it down. :P
19:38 DivideByZero 29%, I'm going to exit for a quick break while it's doing it's thing.
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19:59 DivideByZero 100%
20:06 [Pokey] Hey, looked around online a little and can't find what I'm looking for. I have a 5 button mouse, is it possible to reconfigure my controls to allow me to use a non standard mouse button? (or any button at all, I can't find how to reconfigure mouse controls)
20:10 DivideByZero it built but it's missing the 'minetest' game, only got devtest. How do I fix that?
20:11 numzero joined #minetest
20:12 sfan5 cd games && git clone https://github.com/games/minetest_game -b stable-5
20:14 DivideByZero thanks sfan.
20:18 DivideByZero says repository not found.
20:18 DivideByZero visiting the page shows a 404 error too.
20:18 VanessaE /games/ ??
20:18 Krock cd games && git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game.git -b stable-5
20:18 Krock ftfy
20:19 DivideByZero and why's it asking for my github username & password? it hasn;t done that before.
20:20 Krock because it might be a hidden repository
20:20 Krock and you can only know that by logging in to check whether you could have access
20:20 Krock but it's in fact just missing
20:20 MTDiscord <y5nw> I don't think minetest/minetest_game is public
20:20 Krock wat
20:20 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/
20:21 MTDiscord <y5nw> Typo: I meant it is public
20:21 MTDiscord <y5nw> As in you should not need a GH account to access it
20:22 DivideByZero I'm getting errors still
20:24 MTDiscord <y5nw> How about posting the error message? Maybe it was just a typo or something like that
20:25 DivideByZero fatal: repository 'https://github.com/games/minetest_game.git/
20:26 DivideByZero fatal: repository 'https://github.com/games/minetest_game.git/' not found
20:26 DivideByZero Not sure why it has the slash at the end, I didn't put it there when I typed it in.
20:26 Krock DivideByZero: replace "games" with "minetest"
20:26 DivideByZero Have re-tried several times
20:26 DivideByZero ok I'll try that
20:27 DivideByZero yeah that's working and didn't ask me for account or password either.
20:28 Krock good
20:29 DivideByZero ok it loaded, now I have to spend some time setting it up. It didn't pick up my previous settings apparently.
20:29 DivideByZero Thanks for the support.
20:29 Krock !next
20:29 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
20:31 DivideByZero I might have more questions before I'm done. :P  Hopefully not many though. You've all been very kind and helpful though.
20:31 sfan5 yeah sorry I typed that wrong earlier
20:31 DivideByZero no problem sfan5. Thanks still.
20:49 DivideByZero my minetest.conf used to be in '/etc/minetest' when i used the debian installed server, but now that I built the server from github do the files need to go to a new place? It doesn't seem to find my conf file anymore
20:50 Krock should be in  ~/.minetest
20:50 DivideByZero in my home folder instead?
20:51 Krock yes. system files should be static
20:51 Krock minetest will check that directory for mods, texture packs and such
20:52 Krock btw also documented somewhere in git, and on wiki.minetest.net
20:52 DivideByZero and my mods used to be in /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/mods
20:56 Krock weird structure but might work
20:56 DivideByZero it doesn't work anymore now that I built from github
20:56 DivideByZero trying to figure out the new structure it wasnts.
20:57 DivideByZero Debian just did things weird before I guess.
20:58 DivideByZero even the log file isn't where it used to be in /var/log/minetest
20:58 Krock everything should be in the home directory
20:59 DivideByZero This is for the minetestserver build, not the client. Your directions still good?
21:00 Krock yes. client and server share the same code
21:00 DivideByZero ok
21:00 Krock in fact, the client build requires a server to even start a singleplayer game
21:00 DivideByZero I'll try moving my stuff to the new location.
21:00 Krock or symlink
21:01 DivideByZero I didn't build the client, just the server. The client is still the outdated 5.3.0
21:01 DivideByZero But i never use the client from the server computer anyways, I do that from another pc
21:02 DivideByZero I rather move them than symlink, because the old way was a pain in the butt, because the directorys were locked with permissions and I had to sudo to even save a file when I made changes, in my home directory I won't have to do that anymore.
21:02 DivideByZero But I'm also wondering if this server is still going to use the Debian-minetest user, or if its going to run off my privledged user.
21:04 MTDiscord <y5nw> It depends on the user you run the server as
21:04 DivideByZero yeah I installed it under my name, so it's going to use that right?
21:05 MTDiscord <y5nw> I will try to explain it then:
21:05 DivideByZero If debian would just bother to get closer to up to date, I wouldn't have this hassle.
21:06 MTDiscord <y5nw> If you run the server with ./bin/minetestserver or something like that then you are running the server using the same user you run the shell as
21:06 DivideByZero i tried running it like i did the old debian package, with:
21:07 DivideByZero 'sudo systemctl start minetest-server'
21:07 MTDiscord <y5nw> The systemd service in Debian uses (afaik) a special user for the MT server
21:07 DivideByZero But I'm not certain that's working.
21:07 DivideByZero says active (exited)
21:08 DivideByZero Vanessa had mentioned to me she was not sure if it would work with systemctl or not.
21:08 MTDiscord <y5nw> Afaik you probably need to look into the systemd service file and see if the path to minetestserver in that file corresponds to the path to the MT server binary you built
21:09 DivideByZero I went to look at that file and it disapeared.
21:09 MTDiscord <y5nw> ... because you uninstalled the MT server with apt?
21:09 DivideByZero yet it still let's me run the command
21:09 DivideByZero yes uninstalled the Debian package, and then built from github
21:10 DivideByZero because Debian only has 0.4.17 on main branch, and even with backports only offers 5.3.0 which I was previously using/
21:10 MTDiscord <y5nw> I'm not sure. It could be that the MT server was still running when you uninstalled it
21:11 DivideByZero no i was sure to stop it first
21:12 MTDiscord <y5nw> Then I can't tell what happened. Which "that file" did you want to look at?
21:12 DivideByZero minetest-server.service
21:14 DivideByZero Does anyone know for sure or not if the build from github supports systemctl? Otherwise that may be a moot point.
21:16 MTDiscord <y5nw> I think it does not really depend on the build itself. It should work if you provide a service file
21:16 DivideByZero the debian built created one for me. So now I'll have to create my own I guess..
21:17 MTDiscord <y5nw> You can modify it from the file provied by Debian
21:17 MTDiscord <y5nw> https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/minetest/-/blob/buster-backports/debian/minetest-server.service
21:18 DivideByZero But i think I may have to re do all this, because since I installed it under my main user name it's going to try to run from that username, whereas it used to run as Debian-minetest user which is an unprivleged user.
21:19 DivideByZero Thanks. that link will be very helpful, so I don't have to create it from scratch.
21:20 MTDiscord <y5nw> You can just build MT server using an unprivileged user and use the same user to run the server
21:21 MTDiscord <y5nw> Also the user who builds the binary is not necessarily related to the user who runs the binary
21:22 DivideByZero even if it's in my home dir?
21:22 MTDiscord <y5nw> Depends on whether other users can access your home dir (and write to it)
21:22 DivideByZero i built with the flag -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE
21:23 DivideByZero so it would install globally, but it seems to have still installed to my home folder
21:23 MTDiscord <y5nw> I said the access to the directory and the related files, not the build options
21:24 DivideByZero yes I was not replying to your statement, just giving more info.
21:24 MTDiscord <y5nw> I'm not sure how that's related at all
21:24 DivideByZero so that it could be ran by other users, not just me.. if that makes more sense?
21:24 MTDiscord <y5nw> If you don't install it, then the built files stay inside the bin/ directory afaik
21:25 MTDiscord <y5nw> It depends on whether they have access to the directory and the files related to the MT server
21:25 MTDiscord <y5nw> Look up "Unix file permission" about that topic
21:26 DivideByZero my home folder is provate so they won't have access to it.
21:26 DivideByZero private
21:26 DivideByZero I'm going to have to start over doing this on a unprivledge account it seems.
21:27 MTDiscord <y5nw> Then you might want to copy the files to somewhere that the said user running the server as can access and write to
21:27 MTDiscord <y5nw> And set the rwx permissions correspondingly, of course
21:27 DivideByZero how do I remove it? since I built with git?  Just delete the folders, or is there a command to remove it?
21:28 DivideByZero i don't think git has a 'git remove'
21:28 MTDiscord <y5nw> If you haven't yet installed the files you should be able to remove it with rm
21:28 DivideByZero I did 'make' so i guess thats not installing it?
21:28 MTDiscord <y5nw> Afaik no
21:29 DivideByZero I'm not even sure how I would install it afterwards. I'm new to the whole git thing. Been working with it for about 3 days only.
21:29 MTDiscord <y5nw> I don't think you have to install it at all
21:30 DivideByZero not to run it as my own user, but if I want to run it as a unprivledged user installing it might make it accessible.
21:30 MTDiscord <y5nw> Like, if you only have a single user that runs the server as, then you only need to make sure the files are somewhere that the user has access to
21:30 DivideByZero otherwise I need to remove it all and install as the other user
21:31 MTDiscord <y5nw> Copy the file to that unprivileged user
21:31 MTDiscord <y5nw> cp -r
21:31 MTDiscord <y5nw> Btw git does have a remove command except it does not do what you might think it does: https://git-scm.com/docs/git-rm
21:33 DivideByZero well if nothing installed to other locations, I should be ok just deleting the folder that git made then.
21:33 DivideByZero ~/home/<user>/minetest
21:34 DivideByZero probably didn't need the ~ there.
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21:36 MTDiscord <y5nw> It should be ~/minetest if I understand you correctly
21:36 DivideByZero yes
21:36 MTDiscord <y5nw> Yes, you can
21:37 MTDiscord <y5nw> But then you will need to rebuild the server again
21:37 DivideByZero yeah
21:38 DivideByZero I rather have to rebuild than run on a privledge user account though. For security.
21:38 MTDiscord <appguru> Looking at the changelog: https://dev.minetest.net/Changelog#5.3.0_.E2.86.92_5.4.0
21:38 DivideByZero Unless as I think you were saying I can just copy everything over to the new user.
21:38 MTDiscord <y5nw> Well you could just copy that directory to that of the unprivileged user
21:38 DivideByZero I'll try that first
21:38 MTDiscord <y5nw> Then you don't need to rebuild it
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21:42 MTDiscord <y5nw> Well, if you do that you might also need to change the access rights of the dest. directory
21:44 MTDiscord <y5nw> Hopefully someone else can help you out now. I need to go to bed
21:49 DivideByZero thank you for you time and support. have a good night.
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22:03 DivideByZero I think some of the docs have typographical errors @ https://github.com/minetest/minetest "BUILD_SERVER=FALSE         - Build Minetest server" I believe the FALSE should be TRUE here.
22:03 DivideByZero "RUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE         - Create a portable install (worlds, settings etc. in current directory)" and the FALSE should be TRUE here as well.
22:06 sfan5 why?
22:06 DivideByZero because if it's FALSE you are telling it not to do that thing.
22:06 DivideByZero Which contradicts what the doc is saying.
22:07 sfan5 the FALSE is the default value of that setting
22:07 DivideByZero but opposite to what the doc is proclaiming.
22:07 sfan5 not really
22:08 DivideByZero for example if you want to build the server you would use BUILD_SERVER=TRUE, and not FALSE which would not build the server.
22:08 sfan5 you're supposed to read that as "BUILD_SERVER controls whether 'Build Minetest server' should be done and it's FALSE by default"
22:08 DivideByZero Ok, maybe I am reading it wrong as you suggest. But it does make it more confusing that way. At least it did for me.
22:09 DivideByZero But since it was already explained to me earlier, I noticed it was opposite.
22:10 DivideByZero I guess if I read the "General options and their default values:" just above it it makes more sense. :D
22:11 DivideByZero I did search and it scrolled past that part. My apologies, and you are correct sfan5.
22:15 sfan5 oh if that's explicitly explained it's even better
22:19 DivideByZero agreed.
22:20 DivideByZero well I made a new unprivledged user, and I'm about to go through the proccess again.  I'm gaining more experience having to do it again, so that's one positive of it.
22:25 DivideByZero I'm documenting my steps as well in case I need to redo this in the future.  I'm willing to share it if it could help anyone else in the coming future.
22:27 * VanessaE heads off for a bit
22:28 VanessaE Krock: I'd appreciate it if you could finish the review or at least give it a thumbs up so I can merge :)
22:28 VanessaE bbl
22:35 DivideByZero 1) $ git clone https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github
22:35 DivideByZero 2) $ git reset --hard f3e51dc
22:35 DivideByZero 3) $ cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=FALSE -DBUILD_SERVER=TRUE -ENABLE_POSTGRESQL=OFF -ENABLE_GETTEXT=OFF -ENABLE_CURSES=OFF
22:35 DivideByZero 4) $ make -j$(nproc)
22:36 DivideByZero 5) profit
22:36 DivideByZero oops.github should be .git i'll fix that typo.
22:36 DivideByZero I think that's the basic jist of it though.
22:37 MTDiscord <oneplustwo> the build instructions are in the readme
22:37 DivideByZero listed the dependencies too.
22:38 DivideByZero oneplustwo: yeah but they aren't as clear of steps as I wrote out. (even though some of this may be specific to me with the cmake options.)
22:39 DivideByZero Instead of reading the entire doc each time, I can refer to my quick steps doc.
22:39 DivideByZero It will be helpful to me, even if to no one else. Just thought I'd share in case it was beneficial to anyone. No problem if it's not.
22:40 DivideByZero and the 5th step was just a South Park joke.
22:40 sfan5 instead of that specific commit id you can also just `git checkout 5.4.0` btw
22:41 DivideByZero replace 'git reset --hard f3e51dc' with 'git checkout 5.4.0' ?
22:41 sfan5 yes
22:41 DivideByZero Ok I'll try that, it's more clear what I'm getting with your suggestion.
22:42 DivideByZero 'f3e51dc' isn't very informative.
22:47 DivideByZero it gave me "f3e51dca1" with an additional 'a1' after the id.  It's the same though?
22:47 sfan5 yes
22:48 DivideByZero I'm just asking this for curiousity as it's not important to the task at hand, but does that last a1 mean something if you know?
22:48 sfan5 the full one is f3e51dca155ce1d1062a339cf925f41d7c751df8 actually
22:48 DivideByZero ooh
22:49 DivideByZero glad I didn't have to type that out. :)
22:49 sfan5 you can truncate it down to a reasonable length and git will get what you mean anyway
22:49 DivideByZero Very good explaination. Thanks.
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