| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:10 |
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| 00:48 |
Helenah |
btw... |
| 00:49 |
Helenah |
How come foliage just burns forever? |
| 00:49 |
Helenah |
Surely if one sets leaves on fire, the expected behaviour would be that the leaves eventually disappear. |
| 01:03 |
Reinhilde |
dunno |
| 01:04 |
Helenah |
onnud |
| 01:05 |
Reinhilde |
okies |
| 01:10 |
rubenwardy |
Things burning will destroy after a few seconds |
| 01:17 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: That's not what's happening here. |
| 01:18 |
rubenwardy |
Probably a bug then |
| 01:22 |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:00 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
Hi all. |
| 03:42 |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:30 |
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| 05:55 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
Anyone here familiar with nssm (not so simple mobs)? |
| 06:02 |
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| 06:06 |
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| 06:07 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
I have it installed and it's loading but no mobs. I am also running mobs_redo by 10+ |
| 06:07 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
Any idea if there is a conflict? |
| 06:30 |
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| 06:30 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
I tried shutting down every mob related mod except for mobs_redo which the docs say is a requirement - no dice. |
| 07:03 |
iamweasel |
Biggus_Richardvs: i don't have experience with nssm, but i do run mobs_redo with mobs_monster and mobs_animal, they work great |
| 07:11 |
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| 09:11 |
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| 09:46 |
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| 09:49 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
iamweasel Ya me too, but nssm has like 30+ mobs - want to check them out |
| 09:50 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
So I basically just tried nssm with mobs_redo enabled and nothing else and nothing is spawning |
| 09:51 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
It says mobs_redo is required, so.... |
| 09:53 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
Ya I retied disabling it and MT complained about dependencies |
| 09:53 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
So if anyone knows what I'm missing for nssm to come up and work, help appreciated |
| 09:54 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
Also, would like to up the spawn rate a bit |
| 10:10 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
Getting lots of stuff like this with the --info switch when nssm loads: |
| 10:10 |
Biggus_Richardvs |
[C]: in function 'dofile'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/init.lua:68: in main chunk2020-12-18 01:54:18: WARNING[Main]: Field "height_max": Deprecated: new name is "y_max".2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: stac |
| 10:35 |
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| 10:39 |
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| 10:42 |
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| 10:51 |
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| 10:59 |
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| 11:00 |
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| 11:38 |
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| 11:49 |
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| 11:55 |
Helenah |
How come when I git clone https://github.com/t-affeldt/climate the directories are empty? |
| 12:02 |
Helenah |
What's MTG weather? The mod says to disable it... |
| 12:03 |
Helenah |
I doubt MTG = minetest_game cause I haven't seen any weather from that hence why I'm loading in a mod. |
| 12:06 |
specing |
the stuff is probably in a non-default branch |
| 12:07 |
specing |
ah, directories |
| 12:07 |
specing |
Helenah: git submodule init && git submodule update |
| 12:20 |
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| 12:21 |
sfan5 |
alternatively git clone --recursive |
| 12:21 |
sfan5 |
MTG weather refers to the changing cloud densities (and color?), delete the "weather" mod from minetest_game/mods/ |
| 12:26 |
Helenah |
Aaaaah! |
| 12:26 |
Helenah |
sfan5: So that's where I got confused with why there is an MTG weather. |
| 12:26 |
Helenah |
It controls the clouds and colour. :3 |
| 12:35 |
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| 12:51 |
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| 12:58 |
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| 13:19 |
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| 14:03 |
tango_ |
Calinou: is the lack of glass panes for the new glass types in moreblocks intentional? or just nobody implemented it? |
| 14:03 |
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| 14:06 |
Calinou |
tango_: I think it's just that nobody implemented it |
| 14:07 |
tango_ |
Calinou: OK I'll give it a try after I fix the placement bug |
| 14:08 |
tango_ |
I'll open a ticket on that, just to remember |
| 14:09 |
Helenah |
I'm sure mods break other mods. |
| 14:09 |
Helenah |
I need to find a collection of mods that work great together. :/ |
| 14:12 |
MTDiscord |
<appguru> You're sorcerykid right? |
| 14:12 |
Helenah |
Whose sorcerykid? o.o |
| 14:13 |
Helenah |
Wow sprint doesn't work... |
| 14:13 |
Helenah |
It did before... |
| 14:13 |
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| 14:13 |
Helenah |
I told you mods break other mods. |
| 14:14 |
Helenah |
Like... my wheat and cotton doesn't grow anymore. |
| 14:16 |
specing |
;O |
| 14:16 |
Helenah |
I'm contemplating switching back to Minecraft, I've never known soo many mods break soo much stuff unrelated to the mods in my life. |
| 14:16 |
Helenah |
I was considering writing mods myself, but is it just going to break everything else? |
| 14:19 |
Helenah |
Like, I don't know which mod is the culprit for wheat and cotton not growing anymore like I don't like which mod is the culprit for the sprint mod not working properly anymore. |
| 14:19 |
Helenah |
Sometimes I can walk and other times I've noticed I'm going at tip toe speed... |
| 14:21 |
rubenwardy |
Do you have a hunger mod installed? They tend to reduce sprint if you are hungry |
| 14:21 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Yeah, but I'm not hungry and no matter what I do with my health and hunger, I can't sprint. |
| 14:21 |
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Ramen1[m] left #minetest |
| 14:22 |
Helenah |
Sprint worked find with the hunger mod cause I remember loading them both together a while ago. |
| 14:22 |
Helenah |
But I'm not sure what mod has broken sprint. |
| 14:22 |
Helenah |
*fine |
| 14:22 |
rubenwardy |
player physics is probably one of the most conflicting APIs there are, as the engine doesn't give any help |
| 14:23 |
rubenwardy |
please may I see you mod list? |
| 14:23 |
rubenwardy |
hm, would be useful to have a better way to share stuff like that |
| 14:23 |
Helenah |
Well that's another problem... |
| 14:23 |
rubenwardy |
RimWorld has a nice mod that makes you HTML and TXT pages |
| 14:24 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: https://termbin.com/fgr6 |
| 14:24 |
specing |
Helenah: running a server is hard work |
| 14:24 |
Helenah |
Yesh, you are going to say "Why are you using that mod? Why not this mod?" |
| 14:25 |
Helenah |
specing: Agred |
| 14:25 |
specing |
most mod developers are clueless and never actually used git in their life |
| 14:25 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 14:25 |
Helenah |
It was less hard work with Minecraft Forge... |
| 14:25 |
rubenwardy |
woah, someone's actually using one of my mods |
| 14:25 |
Helenah |
And that's messy |
| 14:25 |
specing |
In the server I play most often, a lot of the mods have more commits in them from server staff than original mod authors |
| 14:25 |
rubenwardy |
I can't see anything immediately suspicious in that mod list |
| 14:25 |
Helenah |
specing: This is the annoying thing about modders, I feel like they are just kids who wanted to write a bit of code... |
| 14:26 |
rubenwardy |
that's pretty much it, lol |
| 14:26 |
Helenah |
Yeah |
| 14:26 |
specing |
yes |
| 14:26 |
Helenah |
And I'm the one who has to clean up their code. |
| 14:26 |
rubenwardy |
I was 14 when I wrote most of my mods |
| 14:26 |
Helenah |
That's what I've been having to do. |
| 14:27 |
specing |
autofarmer? never heard of that |
| 14:27 |
Helenah |
specing: It has harvesters and planters |
| 14:28 |
specing |
It's not even in contendb |
| 14:28 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, I just noticed that |
| 14:28 |
specing |
But anyway, for machines I recommend techpack (it's glitching and broken, but less than pipeworks/technic) |
| 14:28 |
specing |
glitchy* |
| 14:28 |
rubenwardy |
!mod [autofarmer] |
| 14:28 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( |
| 14:28 |
rubenwardy |
!mod autofarmer |
| 14:28 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( |
| 14:29 |
specing |
techpack has a harvester |
| 14:29 |
rubenwardy |
it doesn't even appear to be on the forums? |
| 14:29 |
specing |
Or you could try programmable bots |
| 14:29 |
rubenwardy |
it's a random git repo |
| 14:29 |
specing |
basic_robots I think they are called |
| 14:29 |
Helenah |
Maybe I'm just more experienced with putting mods together to create modpacks for Minecraft Forge and this is what my problem is, I'm not knowing which mods work best together. |
| 14:29 |
specing |
or CSM :P |
| 14:30 |
rubenwardy |
with ContentDB especially, you shouldn't need to have prior knowledge to install mods |
| 14:30 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: prior knowledge? |
| 14:30 |
Helenah |
What's wrong with "git clone"? |
| 14:31 |
rubenwardy |
prior knowledge meaning any extensive research or experience before installing mods |
| 14:31 |
Helenah |
I'm confused |
| 14:31 |
Helenah |
Surely installing a mod is simple |
| 14:31 |
Helenah |
You download it, and you place it on the server |
| 14:31 |
Helenah |
or the client |
| 14:31 |
rubenwardy |
I mean in terms of "not knowing which mods work best together" |
| 14:31 |
Helenah |
Ah |
| 14:31 |
Helenah |
Sorry for my misunderstanding, I understand now. |
| 14:32 |
Helenah |
I made hunger_ng support farming_plus |
| 14:32 |
Helenah |
Cause the farming_plus plants weren't feeding. |
| 14:32 |
rubenwardy |
farming_plus hasn't been updated since 2014 |
| 14:33 |
Helenah |
I heard I should be using farming_redo |
| 14:34 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not a fan of what farming redo does with seeds, but it'll probably work better anyway |
| 14:34 |
rubenwardy |
Where did you get autofarmer from? |
| 14:34 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: git |
| 14:34 |
Helenah |
er... |
| 14:34 |
Helenah |
github |
| 14:35 |
Soni |
why not break backwards compatibility with old mods just to make sure ppl can't use them in an incompatible configuration? ;) |
| 14:35 |
Helenah |
That's where I grabbed all the mods I use. |
| 14:35 |
rubenwardy |
So, it's a bad sign if a mod is just on github and not on the forums or contentdb - it implies that they're not confident enough to actually publish it |
| 14:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Git remote -v |
| 14:35 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> Will tell you exactly where |
| 14:35 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah, I've found the git repo |
| 14:38 |
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| 14:44 |
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| 14:49 |
tango_ |
the real issue with farming is what to do with the extra seeds |
| 14:50 |
tango_ |
honestly I would like to do oil with them to fuel an oil lamp, but there's no mod for “just that” |
| 14:50 |
tango_ |
all stuff gets merged into huge mods 8-/ |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
Helenah: it's climate that's stopping sprint |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
the climate mod updates player physics every tick, overwriting sprint |
| 14:52 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: It didn't work before I loaded that. |
| 14:52 |
Helenah |
Not saying that it wouldn't have broke it... |
| 14:52 |
Helenah |
But what I'm saying is... another mod is doing it too. |
| 14:52 |
rubenwardy |
I can sprint when I remove that mod |
| 14:52 |
rubenwardy |
although, I didn't install food or unified inventory |
| 14:52 |
Helenah |
ah :3 |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
This issue is because the engine doesn't provide a nice way for mods that change physics to coexist. There's some work in progress to add this, but in the mean time there are two mods that help with it: player_monoids, playerphysics |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
climate supports those two mods |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
unfortunately, sprint predates them both so doesn't |
| 14:55 |
rubenwardy |
oops, I meant player_monoids and pova |
| 14:55 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Well, I'm glad you guys are actively improving the engine. :) |
| 14:56 |
Helenah |
tango_: Atleast with Minetest it's easier to be selective what you want to use from a mod and what you don't. |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
tango_: parafinn in basic_materials? |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
maybe |
| 14:57 |
Helenah |
Those horrible jar file mods for Forge are awful when you want select things from a mod, but you get the whole damn package with no way to rip it all out without extracting the jar and recompressing. |
| 14:57 |
rubenwardy |
plus, a lot of the mods are proprietary and you're not supposed to even do that |
| 14:57 |
Helenah |
Like... me and members of my server agreed to get rid of tree monsters |
| 14:57 |
Helenah |
from the mobs_monster mod |
| 14:58 |
Helenah |
We also added pesticide to farming_plus and changed the way weeds work. |
| 14:59 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Yeah, that was annoying about Forge, I'd get a bunch of mods but notice that they are all closed up. |
| 15:00 |
Helenah |
If a mod is huge and lags your server but you really want to use the mod you can't do anything about it cause it's closed up. |
| 15:01 |
rubenwardy |
We ban no-modification mods from the forums and ContentDB for this reason - server owners and users being able to modify their mods results in a healthy ecosystem |
| 15:01 |
Helenah |
But with Minetest, it's great, it's lightweight, it isn't heavy. You can load over a dozen mods and not have any real performance hit and I'm running this stuff on a 512MB RAM single core. |
| 15:02 |
Helenah |
I was even able to force mapblocks to stay loaded, lots of them with this hardware resource and not have a huge hit, it's great for automation systems such as farms and factories. |
| 15:02 |
Helenah |
Ofc one should be forcing mapblocks to stay loaded from spawn and around spawn, not like in some random silly locations. |
| 15:03 |
Helenah |
Imagine if every player requested their mapblocks stay loaded and they are all choosing random places on the map? That would be bad! |
| 15:04 |
Helenah |
You end up with load hundreds of kept loaded mapblocks here, there and everywhere, oh what a disaster! lol |
| 15:04 |
Helenah |
So I'm going to encourage my server players to keep their automation stuff near spawn if they want that stuff to keep running. |
| 15:05 |
rubenwardy |
I wanted to make a pure-Lua model automation system, where it work without the map being loaded |
| 15:05 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: How would that work? Through storing data? |
| 15:05 |
Helenah |
Like... running a routine and storing the changes? |
| 15:06 |
rubenwardy |
there would be a Lua graph representing the machines, which would run independently of the world |
| 15:06 |
rubenwardy |
you wouldn't be able to do anything that modified the world |
| 15:06 |
Helenah |
Yeah, that sounds neat rubenwardy |
| 15:06 |
Helenah |
I thought of something like that |
| 15:06 |
rubenwardy |
This is how advanced trains works - trains run even in unloaded mapblocks |
| 15:06 |
Helenah |
I thought "Why can't we do this for automation instead of relying on the world itself to keep the automation running?" |
| 15:06 |
Helenah |
It would open up new possibilities. |
| 15:07 |
Helenah |
This is what I hated about Forge. |
| 15:07 |
Helenah |
You'd want farms and factories to keep running here, there and everywhere. |
| 15:07 |
Helenah |
But then you realise that, as soon as you put automation outside of spawn you've to place down resource heavy chunk loaders. |
| 15:08 |
Helenah |
Cause they all rely on chunks to be loaded to work... |
| 15:08 |
Helenah |
I suppose that's the simplest way to code machines for the game without having to put much more effort into the automation side and how to keep things running. |
| 15:08 |
Helenah |
But it doesn't mean it's the right way. |
| 15:09 |
Helenah |
For example, I was using IndustrialCraft on a server to create an automated nuclear power plant, for that I used ComputerCraft and everytime I restarted the server, I had to log into the server straight away to start up this computer otherwise it'd go BOOM and one day... that happened... :/ |
| 15:09 |
Helenah |
That's cause ComputerCraft doesn't save the on/off state of computers. |
| 15:09 |
Helenah |
And it should be |
| 15:11 |
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| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
oh, btw - to find out that climate was the problem, I searched for "set_physics_override" in your mods and then looked at the usage |
| 15:14 |
rubenwardy |
not that I expect everyone to do that, the engine should just make it easier to be compatible |
| 15:26 |
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| 15:30 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Btw... I was wondering if other programmers have traits like this but... my gf, she's a C/C++ programmer but she is really good with understanding programming logic therefore she easily and quickly picks up languages she's never used before... but when she runs into a problem... I noticed her finger joints crack before she gets to the keyboard to fix the problem. |
| 15:30 |
Helenah |
Like this "Right, lets sort this little problem out" *finger joints crack* |
| 15:31 |
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| 15:33 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: what do you mean by no-modification mods? |
| 15:34 |
tango_ |
Helenah: spawn or home? |
| 15:34 |
Helenah |
tango_: Mods which are proprietary therefore you are not allowed to modify them and they are hard to modify if you want to do so. |
| 15:34 |
Helenah |
We were talking about proprietary forge mods. |
| 15:34 |
tango_ |
Helenah: oh, with nonfree licenses |
| 15:34 |
Helenah |
tango_: spawn |
| 15:34 |
Helenah |
Yes |
| 15:34 |
tango_ |
Helenah: why not home though? |
| 15:35 |
tango_ |
for example I spawned in a horrible place so I set my home elsewhere |
| 15:35 |
Helenah |
tango_: Imagine if over 100 people have their own homepoint and I'm keeping their homepoint mapblocks loaded for their automated stuff? |
| 15:35 |
tango_ |
but then again I think when you set home (eg with bed) you also set the spawn |
| 15:35 |
Helenah |
That's why I was saying spawn... |
| 15:36 |
Helenah |
tango_: I have server administration stuff on my server so I've got /spawn and /setspawn |
| 15:36 |
Helenah |
And this is where I want to keep mapblocks that don't unload. |
| 15:36 |
Helenah |
So that's what I do |
| 15:36 |
tango_ |
meh |
| 15:36 |
Helenah |
Therefore I would rather people who want to keep their automation running build that stuff around spawn. |
| 15:36 |
tango_ |
sometimes spawn is a horribe place |
| 15:37 |
Helenah |
tango_: Yeah, I always make sure it isn't by being the first to build some stuff there. |
| 15:37 |
tango_ |
when I was getting started with hosting my own server I actually wiped clean and restarted with a new world twice just because the spawn point was absolutely horrible |
| 15:37 |
Helenah |
Cause, such spawn point should be an introductory area. |
| 15:37 |
tango_ |
the third one it was still bad, but not AS bad |
| 15:38 |
Helenah |
You want it to welcome people to the server |
| 15:38 |
Helenah |
What's the point in such a location if it just deters people away from it? It's a waste! |
| 15:38 |
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| 15:39 |
specing |
spawn doesen't have infinite space |
| 15:39 |
Helenah |
tango_: I've been on servers with terrible spawnpoints too. |
| 15:39 |
Helenah |
specing: They don't, no |
| 15:40 |
tango_ |
Helenah: I don't disagree with spawn being a good spot, I just think that only keeping that forceloaded limits options |
| 15:40 |
Helenah |
But one can use area mods to create a "spawn area" of any size. |
| 15:40 |
Helenah |
tango_: No, I'll expand out from it |
| 15:40 |
specing |
Helenah: techpack forceloads are a good option, they let players pick which blocks to forceload |
| 15:40 |
tango_ |
Helenah: but that won't be forceloaded then? |
| 15:41 |
Helenah |
Okay... let me ask you guys a question and I'll consider forceloading other areas too... how heavy is doing this? |
| 15:41 |
tango_ |
specing: yeah,but I think Helenah's issue is that too many players forceloading too many blocks would be cause for server slowdown |
| 15:41 |
Helenah |
tango_: Yes |
| 15:41 |
Helenah |
That's my point |
| 15:41 |
Helenah |
Where if farms are near each other in a single area... |
| 15:41 |
tango_ |
Helenah: stop being poor and buy yourself a top-of-the line last-gen CPU with 1TB of RAM ;-) |
| 15:41 |
Helenah |
o.o |
| 15:41 |
tango_ |
joking aside, I have no idea |
| 15:42 |
Helenah |
This isn't intended to be a big Minetest server, it's for my friends only. |
| 15:42 |
specing |
Helenah: farms do not affect forceloads load |
| 15:42 |
Helenah |
So it wont need 1TB of RAM ever |
| 15:42 |
specing |
Helenah: most crops grow with node timers |
| 15:42 |
tango_ |
Helenah: then you probably can forceload all of their home zones |
| 15:42 |
specing |
not ABMs |
| 15:42 |
Helenah |
hmm |
| 15:42 |
Helenah |
tango_: They automatically seem to build near spawn anyway. |
| 15:43 |
Helenah |
Or contribute to spawn. |
| 15:43 |
tango_ |
they can't move away? |
| 15:43 |
specing |
of course, /spawn is a free homepoint |
| 15:43 |
Helenah |
Not they can but they choose not to |
| 15:43 |
specing |
Imagine if you had only one or two homepoints and spawn was not there |
| 15:43 |
tango_ |
ah ok |
| 15:43 |
Helenah |
It's like we are communial |
| 15:43 |
tango_ |
then it won't make much difference |
| 15:44 |
Helenah |
I let a new member onto the server recently... |
| 15:44 |
Helenah |
And he started trashing spawn... |
| 15:44 |
Helenah |
So... a member of the community butchered him |
| 15:44 |
tango_ |
lol |
| 15:44 |
Helenah |
and I transported him into a box and took away his interact privilege |
| 15:44 |
Helenah |
and his home and tp privilege |
| 15:45 |
Helenah |
We told him he'll be in there for 24 hours but he never came back. |
| 15:45 |
Helenah |
lol |
| 15:45 |
tango_ |
gee I wonder why |
| 15:45 |
Helenah |
tango_: Cause... we punished him for his behaviour, we told him to stop causing grief but he wouldn't listen so we punished him for his childish behaviour. |
| 15:46 |
specing |
who was this? |
| 15:46 |
specing |
nickname=? |
| 15:46 |
tango_ |
Helenah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm |
| 15:46 |
Helenah |
We want spawn to be contributable by all members who join so we are not willing to protect it using mods, we'lll protect it in other ways such as rebuilding what his been destroyed. |
| 15:46 |
Helenah |
tango_: I can't tell sarcasm in text, Idk why everyone assumes I should be able to... |
| 15:47 |
Helenah |
It really is difficult |
| 15:47 |
Helenah |
Irl, I can tell, but not in text. |
| 15:47 |
tango_ |
Helenah: I mean, I thought in this case it was obsvious |
| 15:47 |
Helenah |
I'd like to know peoples secrets. |
| 15:47 |
tango_ |
when it's less obvious I try to add /s |
| 15:47 |
Helenah |
tango_: Cause I go off the expression of sarcasm |
| 15:48 |
Helenah |
That's how I understand when someone is being sarcastic, and with text those expressions are missing. |
| 15:48 |
Helenah |
I'm the same with jokes... |
| 15:48 |
Helenah |
and illiteracy |
| 15:49 |
tango_ |
I can do extremely serious sarcasm even in person |
| 15:49 |
tango_ |
worse, I often do |
| 15:49 |
tango_ |
so probably you wouldn't catch my sarcasm even in person |
| 15:49 |
Helenah |
Maybe it's from being diagnosed with social communication disorder as a child. |
| 15:49 |
Helenah |
I had to learn to overcome it |
| 15:50 |
Helenah |
Cause I got sick and tired of hearing people say to me "Wow, you can't take a joke", "Why are you soo literal?", "I wasn't being literal.", "Wow, you can't take sarcasm.", "I was only being sarcastic." |
| 15:50 |
Helenah |
These things became a problem to me and I tried to overcome them. |
| 15:51 |
tango_ |
OTOH, there's people who use the sarcasm/joke excuse to do whatever they please |
| 15:51 |
Helenah |
I'd get other things like "It's called a joke", "It's called sarcasm.", "It's called a figure of speech". |
| 15:51 |
Helenah |
tango_: Yes, I noticedthat. |
| 15:52 |
tango_ |
I wouldn't be surprised if your griefer would have come out with the joke excuse, for example |
| 15:52 |
Helenah |
These days I'm better irl and I can see a joke, take a joke, tell a joke, same for sarcasm and other things, I can tell if someone is being illiteral but as a child this was a problem to me. |
| 15:52 |
Helenah |
tango_: He didn't, he just kept laughing, I think he was getting a kick out of it. |
| 15:53 |
tango_ |
btw I think the opposite of literal is figurative or something like that |
| 15:53 |
tango_ |
Helenah: probably |
| 15:53 |
Helenah |
Ah |
| 15:53 |
tango_ |
IIRC illiteracy refers to not knowing how to read or write |
| 15:53 |
tango_ |
but I'm not a native english speaker so don't take my word for it |
| 15:54 |
Helenah |
He told me later on "I destroyed the place cause I found the game a joke, I enjoyed being butchered, that was fun but when you trapped me in a box that took the fun away." |
| 15:54 |
Helenah |
tango_: I'm a native speaker but did you know it's IRC which got my English to this level? |
| 15:54 |
specing |
Helenah: the proper approach to that is to exploit some hole in minetest client, install a cryptolocker and write "Who's laughing now?" on screen the next day |
| 15:54 |
Helenah |
My English used to be trash when I first started. |
| 15:55 |
Helenah |
specing: lol |
| 15:55 |
tango_ |
Helenah: I've frequently heard of native english speakers being worse at grammar and ortography than non-native 8-) |
| 15:55 |
tango_ |
specing: that might be borderline illegal |
| 15:55 |
specing |
tango_: put it into terms of service |
| 15:55 |
specing |
nobody reads those anyway |
| 15:55 |
specing |
:P |
| 15:55 |
tango_ |
“if you grief you'll get hacked” |
| 15:55 |
Helenah |
tango_: Yes, I've often said to British people that... the best speakers of English are non-native speakers who have had to spend the time to think about what they want to say and who have had to learn a new language. |
| 15:56 |
Helenah |
tango_: lol |
| 15:56 |
tango_ |
well I wouldn't know about best |
| 15:56 |
tango_ |
the accents are ... |
| 15:56 |
tango_ |
let's say that my written english is considerably superior to my spoken one 8-D |
| 15:57 |
Helenah |
Well... British people think that cause English is their language they can use it any way they want to and it gets on my nerves. |
| 15:57 |
tango_ |
it's one of those positions that is not right, but not even wrong |
| 15:57 |
Helenah |
Excessively shortening words "r u or8 m8 x" |
| 15:57 |
Helenah |
It outcasts non-natives |
| 15:58 |
tango_ |
are you allright mate |
| 15:58 |
tango_ |
come on that was easy |
| 15:58 |
tango_ |
;-) |
| 15:58 |
Helenah |
I'm not speaking for all non-natives... |
| 15:58 |
Helenah |
But those who are new to the language and not very good at it |
| 15:58 |
Helenah |
It helps if people talk to them properly |
| 15:58 |
Helenah |
It helps them learn too |
| 15:59 |
tango_ |
I agree |
| 15:59 |
tango_ |
it's also good for learning |
| 15:59 |
Helenah |
Like... people treat Facebook like an SMS function... |
| 16:00 |
Helenah |
forgetting that those days are gone and no longer do we have a limited line length to type in |
| 16:00 |
specing |
I wish they'd start treating it like SMS (and thus stop using it) |
| 16:00 |
Helenah |
specing: lol |
| 16:00 |
Helenah |
Yeah, I hate Facebook |
| 16:01 |
tango_ |
specing: lol |
| 16:01 |
Helenah |
I wish all my fuckin friends didn't rely on it... |
| 16:01 |
Helenah |
And use something sensible... |
| 16:01 |
specing |
I fixed that |
| 16:01 |
Helenah |
Instead I'm forced to set up bitlbee |
| 16:01 |
specing |
sent all friends to hell |
| 16:01 |
Helenah |
lol |
| 16:01 |
Helenah |
Just to keep in contact with my friends via the internet |
| 16:02 |
tango_ |
that will also reduce the server load issues |
| 16:02 |
Helenah |
It's extra software which I don't really want. |
| 16:02 |
tango_ |
removing friends, I mean |
| 16:02 |
specing |
I communicate by email, IRC, tox, matrix, XMPP or I do not communicate at all |
| 16:02 |
Helenah |
specing: Same here mostly |
| 16:02 |
specing |
(or in-person) |
| 16:02 |
tango_ |
but not during the pandemic |
| 16:02 |
tango_ |
8-D |
| 16:02 |
Helenah |
The odd time I will send a message to an irl friend via MQTT |
| 16:03 |
Helenah |
But I want to do away with using MQTT |
| 16:03 |
Helenah |
Like my mother is like "Why do you never message me?" |
| 16:03 |
tango_ |
“no reason to” |
| 16:04 |
Helenah |
And telling her that "I don't message you cause you use Facebook" doesn't wash... |
| 16:05 |
Helenah |
Here is my experience with trying to get a friend to use a sane communication protocol, they either join for a day or so then never use it again... or they simply wont use it, the latter is the majority case. |
| 16:05 |
specing |
tango_: sure, during the pandemic |
| 16:05 |
Helenah |
So I gave up on doing that |
| 16:05 |
tango_ |
specing: I mean in-person |
| 16:06 |
Helenah |
I also, don't like phones. |
| 16:06 |
specing |
tango_: yes, that was the reply to |
| 16:06 |
Helenah |
Infact... my cell phone is rarely charged up unless I need to charge it cause I'm expecting an important call. I have cancer you see so I often have to charge it up ready for a medical phone call. |
| 16:08 |
Helenah |
That's where my mother comes into it again, she expects me to if not use Facebook to do it use my phone to SMS her or give her a phone call telling her that I "love her" once in a while cause I don't live near her. |
| 16:08 |
Helenah |
And I hate using these communication channels to do that... |
| 16:08 |
Helenah |
or do anything |
| 16:09 |
Helenah |
What do you guys think of Discord? |
| 16:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> it works, and has a good UI |
| 16:10 |
Helenah |
I hate the desktop app |
| 16:11 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> why? and you can always use the web app |
| 16:11 |
Helenah |
I noticed it graphically freezes for a while when someone is typing a private message or me or has send a private message, both graphically freeze the app. |
| 16:11 |
Helenah |
and it takes like 20 minutes for it to regain... |
| 16:11 |
Helenah |
Yes, I'd rather use the web app, infact, I'd rather not use Discord at all. |
| 16:11 |
specing |
use XMPP Helenah |
| 16:11 |
Helenah |
I wanted to use a CLI client but according to Discord "You can't do that", I need to communicate via a Discord bot... |
| 16:12 |
Helenah |
Stupid restrictive crap |
| 16:12 |
Helenah |
specing: Yes, I like XMPP |
| 16:12 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> never heard of that sort of issue |
| 16:12 |
specing |
or Matrix |
| 16:12 |
specing |
however matrix has no good clients |
| 16:12 |
Helenah |
I don't even like giving money to energy boards, why would I use proprietary crap? I believe in sharing and communing and contributing and supporting a fair ecosystem |
| 16:12 |
Helenah |
and stupid crappy bullshit like this takes that away |
| 16:13 |
Helenah |
Like... the energy grid should be everyones, they put energy into it, they get energy out of it, and everyone is a winner with it. |
| 16:14 |
Helenah |
I don't wanna give money to some fat cat just to not freeze to death... |
| 16:14 |
Helenah |
That's manipulation... |
| 16:14 |
Helenah |
That's why he has truffles for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday |
| 16:15 |
Helenah |
*That's just so |
| 16:15 |
tango_ |
Helenah: the problem with things being “everyone's” is that you still need someone to policy it |
| 16:15 |
Helenah |
tango_: I don't mind that |
| 16:15 |
Helenah |
But I think energy boards should be building a grid system that is everyones. |
| 16:15 |
tango_ |
Helenah: and the problem with there being someone to policy it is that then you need oversight of what the policer does |
| 16:15 |
tango_ |
etc |
| 16:16 |
rubenwardy |
[15:33] <2196f3tango_> rubenwardy: what do you mean by no-modification mods? |
| 16:16 |
rubenwardy |
A mod which has a license that prevents users from modifying it or distributing modifications |
| 16:16 |
Helenah |
You know if I had the power I'd get rid of money.... money has done nothing but make people suffer... I'd rather suffering from living in the wild than have sufference imposed on me by authority... |
| 16:17 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: so non-free |
| 16:17 |
rubenwardy |
Mods that restrict this are proprietary and non-free, but not all proprietary and non-free licenses prohibit htis |
| 16:17 |
tango_ |
there are non-free licenses that allow redistribution of modifications? |
| 16:17 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 16:17 |
tango_ |
then how are they non-free |
| 16:17 |
rubenwardy |
CC BY-SA-NC for example |
| 16:18 |
tango_ |
I don't consider that non-free |
| 16:18 |
tango_ |
8-D |
| 16:18 |
Helenah |
Just to let you guys know... I already get what I want for free anyway. |
| 16:18 |
tango_ |
if has SA it's free in my perspective |
| 16:18 |
rubenwardy |
well, I'm going by the free software definition here |
| 16:18 |
tango_ |
but then again me and the FSF disagree on other things too |
| 16:18 |
tango_ |
8-D |
| 16:19 |
rubenwardy |
anyway, for more info: https://content.minetest.net/help/non_free/ |
| 16:19 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: in fact i'm not even sure the FSF would consider Cc BY_SA_NC non-free |
| 16:20 |
tango_ |
since afaics it does respect their 4 freedomsn |
| 16:21 |
rubenwardy |
prohibiting commercial use is certainly less non-free than the other things |
| 16:21 |
tango_ |
ah they do classify it as a violation of rule 2 |
| 16:21 |
tango_ |
I disagre |
| 16:21 |
rubenwardy |
it has problems though because "commercial use" can be vague |
| 16:22 |
Helenah |
bravo whisky tango |
| 16:22 |
tango_ |
rubenwardy: hm |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
well, not necessarily vague but have unintended limitations |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
For example, making a video of yourself playing a game with NC assets and monetising the video would be breaching NC |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
for CC BY-SA-NC specifically |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
most games have exceptions for this in their EULAs |
| 16:25 |
specing |
CC-By-NC is bad here as it does not have a clear definition on what commercial use is |
| 16:25 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Well... one simple statement with no context is always vague. |
| 16:26 |
Helenah |
"Do is meant by this statement?" |
| 16:26 |
Helenah |
"Can I commercially use it if I have only 5 employees?" |
| 16:26 |
Helenah |
That ^ |
| 16:26 |
tango_ |
cc does have some explanation about this |
| 16:26 |
tango_ |
but yeah, I see where the problem would lie |
| 16:27 |
tango_ |
that being said, I think I will do my own oil + oil lamp mod |
| 16:27 |
Helenah |
So then you need to rummage through the licenses of the company offering the solution cause they put a vague statement on the solution. |
| 16:27 |
tango_ |
I really wish mods were more composable 8-/ |
| 16:27 |
specing |
also, you can use cc-by-nc commercially in e.g. italy |
| 16:28 |
specing |
just donate 51+% of profit to charity |
| 16:29 |
rubenwardy |
company profit or profit of that work? |
| 16:29 |
specing |
company |
| 16:29 |
specing |
I've heard this 2/3-rd hand, so idk if it works |
| 16:34 |
celeron55 |
that's an interesting interpretation |
| 16:43 |
tango_ |
well it does kind of defeat the “primary for profit” clause in NC |
| 16:44 |
tango_ |
if you give away > half of what you get from it |
| 16:54 |
specing |
add some creative accounting and you can wipe that profit away |
| 17:04 |
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| 17:23 |
Helenah |
Why is my game always on mute? |
| 17:23 |
Helenah |
I unmute it, come back to it sometime, it's muted again... :/ |
| 17:24 |
Helenah |
I've asked my gf if she's muting it and she says "no" |
| 17:24 |
Helenah |
cause she's said in the past many times that the animal noises do her marbles in |
| 17:26 |
Helenah |
I figured it out, I must be hitting M by mistake. |
| 17:28 |
rubenwardy |
lol, I do that to |
| 17:28 |
rubenwardy |
+o |
| 17:29 |
sfan5 |
I'd support a permanently displayed icon if you have your game muted |
| 17:29 |
sfan5 |
then you have a chance to notice that you accidentally hit it |
| 17:33 |
specing |
or just unbind mute |
| 17:38 |
tango_ |
but you might want to mute it |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
unbinding the mute key by default sounds good to me |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
it's uncommon for games to have a mute key by default |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
except for voice chat in some games, where you may want to have a "clutch key" during tense moments so your teammates don't shout in your ears while you're trying to hear footsteps |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
(CS:GO added this as a default feature recently) |
| 17:57 |
Calinou |
https://imgur.com/a/Qg6reVE |
| 18:02 |
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| 18:03 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, I think unbinding mute is the best approach |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
remove the default from defaultsettings. that's the approach hre |
| 18:08 |
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| 18:23 |
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| 18:25 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Anyone familiar with nssm know why it (apparently) won't run under 5.3.0? |
| 18:25 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
I have it enabled and mob redo, which is apparently reqired, and nothing else but default MT mods |
| 18:26 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
No mobs spawning |
| 18:27 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Errors like this showing with --info switch starting server: |
| 18:27 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
2020-12-18 01:54:18: WARNING[Main]: Field "tile_images": Deprecated; new name is "tiles".2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: stack traceback:2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: [C]: in function 'register_item_raw'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:182: in function 'register_item'2020-12-18 01:54:18: |
| 18:27 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
INFO[Main]: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:208: in function 'register_node'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/nssm_materials.lua:302: in main chunk2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: [C]: in function 'dofile'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/init.lua:68: in main chunk |
| 18:27 |
Krock |
I don't see any error there. Only a warning |
| 18:27 |
rubenwardy |
that doesn't look like an error, that just telling you a deprecation |
| 18:27 |
rubenwardy |
that's fine |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy |
lol, ninja'd :'( |
| 18:28 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Ya |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
:P |
| 18:28 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
But that's the only indicator of any kind I have as to why it might not be spawning mobs |
| 18:28 |
Krock |
are you using Minetest Game, or another variant? |
| 18:28 |
rubenwardy |
have you been exploring new areas? It might only explore there |
| 18:29 |
Krock |
nssm uses ABMs, thus it should spawn every now and then |
| 18:29 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Unless I'm missing a configuration step like I need a spawn.lua file or something, but I thought that was optional |
| 18:29 |
Krock |
oh right. check the settings. maybe it disabled some mobs by default |
| 18:29 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Minetest game |
| 18:29 |
Krock |
!mod nssm |
| 18:29 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: Not So Simple Mobs [nssm] by npx - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11813 - https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm |
| 18:29 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
brand new server instance, so eerything is new |
| 18:30 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Krock Ok I'll try |
| 18:30 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
oh nm |
| 18:30 |
Krock |
there are a few settings: https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm/blob/master/settingtypes.txt |
| 18:30 |
Krock |
no idea why it's mapgen-dependent but that might do the trick to add minetest.conf settings accordingly |
| 18:30 |
rubenwardy |
also, maybe try enabling damage? |
| 18:30 |
rubenwardy |
maybe |
| 18:31 |
Krock |
right. checkboxes for damage and creative unticked |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:31 |
Krock |
you can still grant yourself creative in-game for the same effect. for immortality you'd need a mod |
| 18:32 |
Krock |
delaying merge, adding 10642 to the list |
| 18:32 |
Krock |
(ignore) |
| 18:36 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Krock could you elaborate on " add minetest.conf settings accordingly?" Looks like the default is mapgen 7, which is what I'm set to (default for 5.3.0) |
| 18:37 |
Krock |
alright. then how about creative/damage settings? |
| 18:37 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
creative is false in my minetest.conf |
| 18:38 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
damage=true |
| 18:38 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
mobs_monsters for example works fine when I have it enabled |
| 18:39 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: DevTest: Add food item to test food replacement (#10642) 025035d https://git.io/JLRqc (2020-12-18T18:38:39Z) |
| 18:39 |
MinetestBot |
[git] LoneWolfHT -> minetest/minetest: Make installer create its own Minetest folder (#10445) d5a481b https://git.io/JLRqC (2020-12-18T18:38:27Z) |
| 18:39 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Documentation for highest formspec_version[] and changelog (#10592) 6f8a1c9 https://git.io/JLRqW (2020-12-18T18:38:07Z) |
| 18:39 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
I just increased multimobs (Multimobs) int 5000 |
| 18:39 |
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| 18:39 |
Krock |
init.lua |
| 18:40 |
Krock |
move "spawn.lua" to the end of the file. perhaps that does the trick |
| 18:40 |
Krock |
also |
| 18:41 |
Krock |
delete mod.conf |
| 18:41 |
Krock |
that one does not contain any dependency information, hence the mod loading order is not guaranteed |
| 18:41 |
Krock |
deleting it will let Minetest fall back to the correct depends.txt |
| 18:43 |
Krock |
nvm about mod.conf. there's backwards compat code in mods.cpp to cover this case |
| 18:45 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
ok tried moving span and renaming mod.conf - testing now |
| 18:46 |
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| 18:50 |
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| 18:54 |
Krock |
you can force newly generated area by renaming/removing the map data -> file map.sqlite |
| 18:55 |
Krock |
as mentioned earlier, that might increase chances for spawning |
| 18:59 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
I'm on brand new game, new map |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:03 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Halfway through night time, nothing so far |
| 19:04 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
with that setting at 5000, I would expect 5 times as many mobs but there are none |
| 19:04 |
Krock |
0 * 5 = 0 |
| 19:04 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
I'm wondering if since mobs redo is a dependency if there is soemthing in there |
| 19:04 |
Krock |
but well.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't know |
| 19:04 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Krock Thank you for you help in any case! |
| 19:05 |
Krock |
feel free to add print() statements to the spawn code to check whether there's something happening, increase the spawn chance setting again, whatever. |
| 19:06 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
what would adding print() statements look like? |
| 19:06 |
Krock |
print("reached this point in the code") |
| 19:06 |
Krock |
print("reached this other point in the code 2") |
| 19:06 |
Krock |
it would print the stuff to stdout (console) |
| 19:07 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
got it |
| 19:08 |
iamweasel |
gpl cannot prevent from distributing a lie :) only a lie without source :) |
| 19:08 |
iamweasel |
mt |
| 19:09 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
I just noticed this at top of spawn code: |
| 19:09 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
if (mymapgenis~=6) and (mymapgenis~=7) then mymapgenis = 7end-- Spawning parametersif mm ~= 0 then if mymapgenis == 6 then |
| 19:09 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Then all the spawning stull follows |
| 19:10 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Looks like spawning will only happen is mymapgenis == 6 |
| 19:11 |
Krock |
no, below there's "else" |
| 19:11 |
Krock |
which covers all other mapgens |
| 19:11 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Not seeing the "else" |
| 19:11 |
Krock |
line 55 |
| 19:12 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Ah got it |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:34 |
Biggvs_richardvs |
Hmm looks like it's working now. Couldn't tell you why |
| 19:34 |
Krock |
randomness |
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| 20:31 |
Andrey01 |
hello, do 'minexptime/maxexptime' of the particlespawner define how long the emitted particles live? Just it is not documented in lua_api.txt |
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| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L8268-L8269 |
| 21:04 |
sfan5 |
oh he left |
| 21:05 |
Lukwe |
aw |
| 21:26 |
tango_ |
does MT light decrease linearly, -1 per node? |
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| 23:37 |
tango_ |
Calinou: does moreblocks remove the obsidian => obsidian glass recipe? |
| 23:37 |
Calinou |
I don't know |
| 23:37 |
Calinou |
and yes, light decreases linearly, -1 per node |
| 23:38 |
Calinou |
although the light value is not linear when rendered |
| 23:44 |
tango_ |
hm it definitely looks like I can't cook obsidian to its glass with moreblocks |
| 23:44 |
tango_ |
I wonder why, I see nothing that would touch that recipe |
| 23:44 |
tango_ |
unless all glass recipes get wiped before? |
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| 23:54 |
tango_ |
oh wait I'm stupid |
| 23:54 |
tango_ |
it's the shards, not the mined obsidian |
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