Time Nick Message 00:48 Helenah btw... 00:49 Helenah How come foliage just burns forever? 00:49 Helenah Surely if one sets leaves on fire, the expected behaviour would be that the leaves eventually disappear. 01:03 Reinhilde dunno 01:04 Helenah onnud 01:05 Reinhilde okies 01:10 rubenwardy Things burning will destroy after a few seconds 01:17 Helenah rubenwardy: That's not what's happening here. 01:18 rubenwardy Probably a bug then 03:00 Biggus_Richardvs Hi all. 05:55 Biggus_Richardvs Anyone here familiar with nssm (not so simple mobs)? 06:07 Biggus_Richardvs I have it installed and it's loading but no mobs. I am also running mobs_redo by 10+ 06:07 Biggus_Richardvs Any idea if there is a conflict? 06:30 Biggus_Richardvs I tried shutting down every mob related mod except for mobs_redo which the docs say is a requirement - no dice. 07:03 iamweasel Biggus_Richardvs: i don't have experience with nssm, but i do run mobs_redo with mobs_monster and mobs_animal, they work great 09:49 Biggus_Richardvs iamweasel Ya me too, but nssm has like 30+ mobs - want to check them out 09:50 Biggus_Richardvs So I basically just tried nssm with mobs_redo enabled and nothing else and nothing is spawning 09:51 Biggus_Richardvs It says mobs_redo is required, so.... 09:53 Biggus_Richardvs Ya I retied disabling it and MT complained about dependencies 09:53 Biggus_Richardvs So if anyone knows what I'm missing for nssm to come up and work, help appreciated 09:54 Biggus_Richardvs Also, would like to up the spawn rate a bit 10:10 Biggus_Richardvs Getting lots of stuff like this with the --info switch when nssm loads: 10:10 Biggus_Richardvs [C]: in function 'dofile'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/init.lua:68: in main chunk2020-12-18 01:54:18: WARNING[Main]: Field "height_max": Deprecated: new name is "y_max".2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: stac 11:55 Helenah How come when I git clone https://github.com/t-affeldt/climate the directories are empty? 12:02 Helenah What's MTG weather? The mod says to disable it... 12:03 Helenah I doubt MTG = minetest_game cause I haven't seen any weather from that hence why I'm loading in a mod. 12:06 specing the stuff is probably in a non-default branch 12:07 specing ah, directories 12:07 specing Helenah: git submodule init && git submodule update 12:21 sfan5 alternatively git clone --recursive 12:21 sfan5 MTG weather refers to the changing cloud densities (and color?), delete the "weather" mod from minetest_game/mods/ 12:26 Helenah Aaaaah! 12:26 Helenah sfan5: So that's where I got confused with why there is an MTG weather. 12:26 Helenah It controls the clouds and colour. :3 14:03 tango_ Calinou: is the lack of glass panes for the new glass types in moreblocks intentional? or just nobody implemented it? 14:06 Calinou tango_: I think it's just that nobody implemented it 14:07 tango_ Calinou: OK I'll give it a try after I fix the placement bug 14:08 tango_ I'll open a ticket on that, just to remember 14:09 Helenah I'm sure mods break other mods. 14:09 Helenah I need to find a collection of mods that work great together. :/ 14:12 MTDiscord <08a​ppguru> You're sorcerykid right? 14:12 Helenah Whose sorcerykid? o.o 14:13 Helenah Wow sprint doesn't work... 14:13 Helenah It did before... 14:13 Helenah I told you mods break other mods. 14:14 Helenah Like... my wheat and cotton doesn't grow anymore. 14:16 specing ;O 14:16 Helenah I'm contemplating switching back to Minecraft, I've never known soo many mods break soo much stuff unrelated to the mods in my life. 14:16 Helenah I was considering writing mods myself, but is it just going to break everything else? 14:19 Helenah Like, I don't know which mod is the culprit for wheat and cotton not growing anymore like I don't like which mod is the culprit for the sprint mod not working properly anymore. 14:19 Helenah Sometimes I can walk and other times I've noticed I'm going at tip toe speed... 14:21 rubenwardy Do you have a hunger mod installed? They tend to reduce sprint if you are hungry 14:21 Helenah rubenwardy: Yeah, but I'm not hungry and no matter what I do with my health and hunger, I can't sprint. 14:22 Helenah Sprint worked find with the hunger mod cause I remember loading them both together a while ago. 14:22 Helenah But I'm not sure what mod has broken sprint. 14:22 Helenah *fine 14:22 rubenwardy player physics is probably one of the most conflicting APIs there are, as the engine doesn't give any help 14:23 rubenwardy please may I see you mod list? 14:23 rubenwardy hm, would be useful to have a better way to share stuff like that 14:23 Helenah Well that's another problem... 14:23 rubenwardy RimWorld has a nice mod that makes you HTML and TXT pages 14:24 Helenah rubenwardy: https://termbin.com/fgr6 14:24 specing Helenah: running a server is hard work 14:24 Helenah Yesh, you are going to say "Why are you using that mod? Why not this mod?" 14:25 Helenah specing: Agred 14:25 specing most mod developers are clueless and never actually used git in their life 14:25 rubenwardy lol 14:25 Helenah It was less hard work with Minecraft Forge... 14:25 rubenwardy woah, someone's actually using one of my mods 14:25 Helenah And that's messy 14:25 specing In the server I play most often, a lot of the mods have more commits in them from server staff than original mod authors 14:25 rubenwardy I can't see anything immediately suspicious in that mod list 14:25 Helenah specing: This is the annoying thing about modders, I feel like they are just kids who wanted to write a bit of code... 14:26 rubenwardy that's pretty much it, lol 14:26 Helenah Yeah 14:26 specing yes 14:26 Helenah And I'm the one who has to clean up their code. 14:26 rubenwardy I was 14 when I wrote most of my mods 14:26 Helenah That's what I've been having to do. 14:27 specing autofarmer? never heard of that 14:27 Helenah specing: It has harvesters and planters 14:28 specing It's not even in contendb 14:28 rubenwardy yeah, I just noticed that 14:28 specing But anyway, for machines I recommend techpack (it's glitching and broken, but less than pipeworks/technic) 14:28 specing glitchy* 14:28 rubenwardy !mod [autofarmer] 14:28 MinetestBot rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( 14:28 rubenwardy !mod autofarmer 14:28 MinetestBot rubenwardy: There are no results for this query :( 14:29 specing techpack has a harvester 14:29 rubenwardy it doesn't even appear to be on the forums? 14:29 specing Or you could try programmable bots 14:29 rubenwardy it's a random git repo 14:29 specing basic_robots I think they are called 14:29 Helenah Maybe I'm just more experienced with putting mods together to create modpacks for Minecraft Forge and this is what my problem is, I'm not knowing which mods work best together. 14:29 specing or CSM :P 14:30 rubenwardy with ContentDB especially, you shouldn't need to have prior knowledge to install mods 14:30 Helenah rubenwardy: prior knowledge? 14:30 Helenah What's wrong with "git clone"? 14:31 rubenwardy prior knowledge meaning any extensive research or experience before installing mods 14:31 Helenah I'm confused 14:31 Helenah Surely installing a mod is simple 14:31 Helenah You download it, and you place it on the server 14:31 Helenah or the client 14:31 rubenwardy I mean in terms of "not knowing which mods work best together" 14:31 Helenah Ah 14:31 Helenah Sorry for my misunderstanding, I understand now. 14:32 Helenah I made hunger_ng support farming_plus 14:32 Helenah Cause the farming_plus plants weren't feeding. 14:32 rubenwardy farming_plus hasn't been updated since 2014 14:33 Helenah I heard I should be using farming_redo 14:34 rubenwardy I'm not a fan of what farming redo does with seeds, but it'll probably work better anyway 14:34 rubenwardy Where did you get autofarmer from? 14:34 Helenah rubenwardy: git 14:34 Helenah er... 14:34 Helenah github 14:35 Soni why not break backwards compatibility with old mods just to make sure ppl can't use them in an incompatible configuration? ;) 14:35 Helenah That's where I grabbed all the mods I use. 14:35 rubenwardy So, it's a bad sign if a mod is just on github and not on the forums or contentdb - it implies that they're not confident enough to actually publish it 14:35 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> Git remote -v 14:35 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> Will tell you exactly where 14:35 rubenwardy Yeah, I've found the git repo 14:49 tango_ the real issue with farming is what to do with the extra seeds 14:50 tango_ honestly I would like to do oil with them to fuel an oil lamp, but there's no mod for “just that” 14:50 tango_ all stuff gets merged into huge mods 8-/ 14:51 rubenwardy Helenah: it's climate that's stopping sprint 14:51 rubenwardy the climate mod updates player physics every tick, overwriting sprint 14:52 Helenah rubenwardy: It didn't work before I loaded that. 14:52 Helenah Not saying that it wouldn't have broke it... 14:52 Helenah But what I'm saying is... another mod is doing it too. 14:52 rubenwardy I can sprint when I remove that mod 14:52 rubenwardy although, I didn't install food or unified inventory 14:52 Helenah ah :3 14:53 rubenwardy This issue is because the engine doesn't provide a nice way for mods that change physics to coexist. There's some work in progress to add this, but in the mean time there are two mods that help with it: player_monoids, playerphysics 14:53 rubenwardy climate supports those two mods 14:53 rubenwardy unfortunately, sprint predates them both so doesn't 14:55 rubenwardy oops, I meant player_monoids and pova 14:55 Helenah rubenwardy: Well, I'm glad you guys are actively improving the engine. :) 14:56 Helenah tango_: Atleast with Minetest it's easier to be selective what you want to use from a mod and what you don't. 14:57 rubenwardy tango_: parafinn in basic_materials? 14:57 rubenwardy maybe 14:57 Helenah Those horrible jar file mods for Forge are awful when you want select things from a mod, but you get the whole damn package with no way to rip it all out without extracting the jar and recompressing. 14:57 rubenwardy plus, a lot of the mods are proprietary and you're not supposed to even do that 14:57 Helenah Like... me and members of my server agreed to get rid of tree monsters 14:57 Helenah from the mobs_monster mod 14:58 Helenah We also added pesticide to farming_plus and changed the way weeds work. 14:59 Helenah rubenwardy: Yeah, that was annoying about Forge, I'd get a bunch of mods but notice that they are all closed up. 15:00 Helenah If a mod is huge and lags your server but you really want to use the mod you can't do anything about it cause it's closed up. 15:01 rubenwardy We ban no-modification mods from the forums and ContentDB for this reason - server owners and users being able to modify their mods results in a healthy ecosystem 15:01 Helenah But with Minetest, it's great, it's lightweight, it isn't heavy. You can load over a dozen mods and not have any real performance hit and I'm running this stuff on a 512MB RAM single core. 15:02 Helenah I was even able to force mapblocks to stay loaded, lots of them with this hardware resource and not have a huge hit, it's great for automation systems such as farms and factories. 15:02 Helenah Ofc one should be forcing mapblocks to stay loaded from spawn and around spawn, not like in some random silly locations. 15:03 Helenah Imagine if every player requested their mapblocks stay loaded and they are all choosing random places on the map? That would be bad! 15:04 Helenah You end up with load hundreds of kept loaded mapblocks here, there and everywhere, oh what a disaster! lol 15:04 Helenah So I'm going to encourage my server players to keep their automation stuff near spawn if they want that stuff to keep running. 15:05 rubenwardy I wanted to make a pure-Lua model automation system, where it work without the map being loaded 15:05 Helenah rubenwardy: How would that work? Through storing data? 15:05 Helenah Like... running a routine and storing the changes? 15:06 rubenwardy there would be a Lua graph representing the machines, which would run independently of the world 15:06 rubenwardy you wouldn't be able to do anything that modified the world 15:06 Helenah Yeah, that sounds neat rubenwardy 15:06 Helenah I thought of something like that 15:06 rubenwardy This is how advanced trains works - trains run even in unloaded mapblocks 15:06 Helenah I thought "Why can't we do this for automation instead of relying on the world itself to keep the automation running?" 15:06 Helenah It would open up new possibilities. 15:07 Helenah This is what I hated about Forge. 15:07 Helenah You'd want farms and factories to keep running here, there and everywhere. 15:07 Helenah But then you realise that, as soon as you put automation outside of spawn you've to place down resource heavy chunk loaders. 15:08 Helenah Cause they all rely on chunks to be loaded to work... 15:08 Helenah I suppose that's the simplest way to code machines for the game without having to put much more effort into the automation side and how to keep things running. 15:08 Helenah But it doesn't mean it's the right way. 15:09 Helenah For example, I was using IndustrialCraft on a server to create an automated nuclear power plant, for that I used ComputerCraft and everytime I restarted the server, I had to log into the server straight away to start up this computer otherwise it'd go BOOM and one day... that happened... :/ 15:09 Helenah That's cause ComputerCraft doesn't save the on/off state of computers. 15:09 Helenah And it should be 15:14 rubenwardy oh, btw - to find out that climate was the problem, I searched for "set_physics_override" in your mods and then looked at the usage 15:14 rubenwardy not that I expect everyone to do that, the engine should just make it easier to be compatible 15:30 Helenah rubenwardy: Btw... I was wondering if other programmers have traits like this but... my gf, she's a C/C++ programmer but she is really good with understanding programming logic therefore she easily and quickly picks up languages she's never used before... but when she runs into a problem... I noticed her finger joints crack before she gets to the keyboard to fix the problem. 15:30 Helenah Like this "Right, lets sort this little problem out" *finger joints crack* 15:33 tango_ rubenwardy: what do you mean by no-modification mods? 15:34 tango_ Helenah: spawn or home? 15:34 Helenah tango_: Mods which are proprietary therefore you are not allowed to modify them and they are hard to modify if you want to do so. 15:34 Helenah We were talking about proprietary forge mods. 15:34 tango_ Helenah: oh, with nonfree licenses 15:34 Helenah tango_: spawn 15:34 Helenah Yes 15:34 tango_ Helenah: why not home though? 15:35 tango_ for example I spawned in a horrible place so I set my home elsewhere 15:35 Helenah tango_: Imagine if over 100 people have their own homepoint and I'm keeping their homepoint mapblocks loaded for their automated stuff? 15:35 tango_ but then again I think when you set home (eg with bed) you also set the spawn 15:35 Helenah That's why I was saying spawn... 15:36 Helenah tango_: I have server administration stuff on my server so I've got /spawn and /setspawn 15:36 Helenah And this is where I want to keep mapblocks that don't unload. 15:36 Helenah So that's what I do 15:36 tango_ meh 15:36 Helenah Therefore I would rather people who want to keep their automation running build that stuff around spawn. 15:36 tango_ sometimes spawn is a horribe place 15:37 Helenah tango_: Yeah, I always make sure it isn't by being the first to build some stuff there. 15:37 tango_ when I was getting started with hosting my own server I actually wiped clean and restarted with a new world twice just because the spawn point was absolutely horrible 15:37 Helenah Cause, such spawn point should be an introductory area. 15:37 tango_ the third one it was still bad, but not AS bad 15:38 Helenah You want it to welcome people to the server 15:38 Helenah What's the point in such a location if it just deters people away from it? It's a waste! 15:39 specing spawn doesen't have infinite space 15:39 Helenah tango_: I've been on servers with terrible spawnpoints too. 15:39 Helenah specing: They don't, no 15:40 tango_ Helenah: I don't disagree with spawn being a good spot, I just think that only keeping that forceloaded limits options 15:40 Helenah But one can use area mods to create a "spawn area" of any size. 15:40 Helenah tango_: No, I'll expand out from it 15:40 specing Helenah: techpack forceloads are a good option, they let players pick which blocks to forceload 15:40 tango_ Helenah: but that won't be forceloaded then? 15:41 Helenah Okay... let me ask you guys a question and I'll consider forceloading other areas too... how heavy is doing this? 15:41 tango_ specing: yeah,but I think Helenah's issue is that too many players forceloading too many blocks would be cause for server slowdown 15:41 Helenah tango_: Yes 15:41 Helenah That's my point 15:41 Helenah Where if farms are near each other in a single area... 15:41 tango_ Helenah: stop being poor and buy yourself a top-of-the line last-gen CPU with 1TB of RAM ;-) 15:41 Helenah o.o 15:41 tango_ joking aside, I have no idea 15:42 Helenah This isn't intended to be a big Minetest server, it's for my friends only. 15:42 specing Helenah: farms do not affect forceloads load 15:42 Helenah So it wont need 1TB of RAM ever 15:42 specing Helenah: most crops grow with node timers 15:42 tango_ Helenah: then you probably can forceload all of their home zones 15:42 specing not ABMs 15:42 Helenah hmm 15:42 Helenah tango_: They automatically seem to build near spawn anyway. 15:43 Helenah Or contribute to spawn. 15:43 tango_ they can't move away? 15:43 specing of course, /spawn is a free homepoint 15:43 Helenah Not they can but they choose not to 15:43 specing Imagine if you had only one or two homepoints and spawn was not there 15:43 tango_ ah ok 15:43 Helenah It's like we are communial 15:43 tango_ then it won't make much difference 15:44 Helenah I let a new member onto the server recently... 15:44 Helenah And he started trashing spawn... 15:44 Helenah So... a member of the community butchered him 15:44 tango_ lol 15:44 Helenah and I transported him into a box and took away his interact privilege 15:44 Helenah and his home and tp privilege 15:45 Helenah We told him he'll be in there for 24 hours but he never came back. 15:45 Helenah lol 15:45 tango_ gee I wonder why 15:45 Helenah tango_: Cause... we punished him for his behaviour, we told him to stop causing grief but he wouldn't listen so we punished him for his childish behaviour. 15:46 specing who was this? 15:46 specing nickname=? 15:46 tango_ Helenah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm 15:46 Helenah We want spawn to be contributable by all members who join so we are not willing to protect it using mods, we'lll protect it in other ways such as rebuilding what his been destroyed. 15:46 Helenah tango_: I can't tell sarcasm in text, Idk why everyone assumes I should be able to... 15:47 Helenah It really is difficult 15:47 Helenah Irl, I can tell, but not in text. 15:47 tango_ Helenah: I mean, I thought in this case it was obsvious 15:47 Helenah I'd like to know peoples secrets. 15:47 tango_ when it's less obvious I try to add /s 15:47 Helenah tango_: Cause I go off the expression of sarcasm 15:48 Helenah That's how I understand when someone is being sarcastic, and with text those expressions are missing. 15:48 Helenah I'm the same with jokes... 15:48 Helenah and illiteracy 15:49 tango_ I can do extremely serious sarcasm even in person 15:49 tango_ worse, I often do 15:49 tango_ so probably you wouldn't catch my sarcasm even in person 15:49 Helenah Maybe it's from being diagnosed with social communication disorder as a child. 15:49 Helenah I had to learn to overcome it 15:50 Helenah Cause I got sick and tired of hearing people say to me "Wow, you can't take a joke", "Why are you soo literal?", "I wasn't being literal.", "Wow, you can't take sarcasm.", "I was only being sarcastic." 15:50 Helenah These things became a problem to me and I tried to overcome them. 15:51 tango_ OTOH, there's people who use the sarcasm/joke excuse to do whatever they please 15:51 Helenah I'd get other things like "It's called a joke", "It's called sarcasm.", "It's called a figure of speech". 15:51 Helenah tango_: Yes, I noticedthat. 15:52 tango_ I wouldn't be surprised if your griefer would have come out with the joke excuse, for example 15:52 Helenah These days I'm better irl and I can see a joke, take a joke, tell a joke, same for sarcasm and other things, I can tell if someone is being illiteral but as a child this was a problem to me. 15:52 Helenah tango_: He didn't, he just kept laughing, I think he was getting a kick out of it. 15:53 tango_ btw I think the opposite of literal is figurative or something like that 15:53 tango_ Helenah: probably 15:53 Helenah Ah 15:53 tango_ IIRC illiteracy refers to not knowing how to read or write 15:53 tango_ but I'm not a native english speaker so don't take my word for it 15:54 Helenah He told me later on "I destroyed the place cause I found the game a joke, I enjoyed being butchered, that was fun but when you trapped me in a box that took the fun away." 15:54 Helenah tango_: I'm a native speaker but did you know it's IRC which got my English to this level? 15:54 specing Helenah: the proper approach to that is to exploit some hole in minetest client, install a cryptolocker and write "Who's laughing now?" on screen the next day 15:54 Helenah My English used to be trash when I first started. 15:55 Helenah specing: lol 15:55 tango_ Helenah: I've frequently heard of native english speakers being worse at grammar and ortography than non-native 8-) 15:55 tango_ specing: that might be borderline illegal 15:55 specing tango_: put it into terms of service 15:55 specing nobody reads those anyway 15:55 specing :P 15:55 tango_ “if you grief you'll get hacked” 15:55 Helenah tango_: Yes, I've often said to British people that... the best speakers of English are non-native speakers who have had to spend the time to think about what they want to say and who have had to learn a new language. 15:56 Helenah tango_: lol 15:56 tango_ well I wouldn't know about best 15:56 tango_ the accents are ... 15:56 tango_ let's say that my written english is considerably superior to my spoken one 8-D 15:57 Helenah Well... British people think that cause English is their language they can use it any way they want to and it gets on my nerves. 15:57 tango_ it's one of those positions that is not right, but not even wrong 15:57 Helenah Excessively shortening words "r u or8 m8 x" 15:57 Helenah It outcasts non-natives 15:58 tango_ are you allright mate 15:58 tango_ come on that was easy 15:58 tango_ ;-) 15:58 Helenah I'm not speaking for all non-natives... 15:58 Helenah But those who are new to the language and not very good at it 15:58 Helenah It helps if people talk to them properly 15:58 Helenah It helps them learn too 15:59 tango_ I agree 15:59 tango_ it's also good for learning 15:59 Helenah Like... people treat Facebook like an SMS function... 16:00 Helenah forgetting that those days are gone and no longer do we have a limited line length to type in 16:00 specing I wish they'd start treating it like SMS (and thus stop using it) 16:00 Helenah specing: lol 16:00 Helenah Yeah, I hate Facebook 16:01 tango_ specing: lol 16:01 Helenah I wish all my fuckin friends didn't rely on it... 16:01 Helenah And use something sensible... 16:01 specing I fixed that 16:01 Helenah Instead I'm forced to set up bitlbee 16:01 specing sent all friends to hell 16:01 Helenah lol 16:01 Helenah Just to keep in contact with my friends via the internet 16:02 tango_ that will also reduce the server load issues 16:02 Helenah It's extra software which I don't really want. 16:02 tango_ removing friends, I mean 16:02 specing I communicate by email, IRC, tox, matrix, XMPP or I do not communicate at all 16:02 Helenah specing: Same here mostly 16:02 specing (or in-person) 16:02 tango_ but not during the pandemic 16:02 tango_ 8-D 16:02 Helenah The odd time I will send a message to an irl friend via MQTT 16:03 Helenah But I want to do away with using MQTT 16:03 Helenah Like my mother is like "Why do you never message me?" 16:03 tango_ “no reason to” 16:04 Helenah And telling her that "I don't message you cause you use Facebook" doesn't wash... 16:05 Helenah Here is my experience with trying to get a friend to use a sane communication protocol, they either join for a day or so then never use it again... or they simply wont use it, the latter is the majority case. 16:05 specing tango_: sure, during the pandemic 16:05 Helenah So I gave up on doing that 16:05 tango_ specing: I mean in-person 16:06 Helenah I also, don't like phones. 16:06 specing tango_: yes, that was the reply to 16:06 Helenah Infact... my cell phone is rarely charged up unless I need to charge it cause I'm expecting an important call. I have cancer you see so I often have to charge it up ready for a medical phone call. 16:08 Helenah That's where my mother comes into it again, she expects me to if not use Facebook to do it use my phone to SMS her or give her a phone call telling her that I "love her" once in a while cause I don't live near her. 16:08 Helenah And I hate using these communication channels to do that... 16:08 Helenah or do anything 16:09 Helenah What do you guys think of Discord? 16:10 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> it works, and has a good UI 16:10 Helenah I hate the desktop app 16:11 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> why? and you can always use the web app 16:11 Helenah I noticed it graphically freezes for a while when someone is typing a private message or me or has send a private message, both graphically freeze the app. 16:11 Helenah and it takes like 20 minutes for it to regain... 16:11 Helenah Yes, I'd rather use the web app, infact, I'd rather not use Discord at all. 16:11 specing use XMPP Helenah 16:11 Helenah I wanted to use a CLI client but according to Discord "You can't do that", I need to communicate via a Discord bot... 16:12 Helenah Stupid restrictive crap 16:12 Helenah specing: Yes, I like XMPP 16:12 MTDiscord <11J​onathon> never heard of that sort of issue 16:12 specing or Matrix 16:12 specing however matrix has no good clients 16:12 Helenah I don't even like giving money to energy boards, why would I use proprietary crap? I believe in sharing and communing and contributing and supporting a fair ecosystem 16:12 Helenah and stupid crappy bullshit like this takes that away 16:13 Helenah Like... the energy grid should be everyones, they put energy into it, they get energy out of it, and everyone is a winner with it. 16:14 Helenah I don't wanna give money to some fat cat just to not freeze to death... 16:14 Helenah That's manipulation... 16:14 Helenah That's why he has truffles for breakfast, lunch and dinner everyday 16:15 Helenah *That's just so 16:15 tango_ Helenah: the problem with things being “everyone's” is that you still need someone to policy it 16:15 Helenah tango_: I don't mind that 16:15 Helenah But I think energy boards should be building a grid system that is everyones. 16:15 tango_ Helenah: and the problem with there being someone to policy it is that then you need oversight of what the policer does 16:15 tango_ etc 16:16 rubenwardy [15:33] <2196f3tango_> rubenwardy: what do you mean by no-modification mods? 16:16 rubenwardy A mod which has a license that prevents users from modifying it or distributing modifications 16:16 Helenah You know if I had the power I'd get rid of money.... money has done nothing but make people suffer... I'd rather suffering from living in the wild than have sufference imposed on me by authority... 16:17 tango_ rubenwardy: so non-free 16:17 rubenwardy Mods that restrict this are proprietary and non-free, but not all proprietary and non-free licenses prohibit htis 16:17 tango_ there are non-free licenses that allow redistribution of modifications? 16:17 rubenwardy yes 16:17 tango_ then how are they non-free 16:17 rubenwardy CC BY-SA-NC for example 16:18 tango_ I don't consider that non-free 16:18 tango_ 8-D 16:18 Helenah Just to let you guys know... I already get what I want for free anyway. 16:18 tango_ if has SA it's free in my perspective 16:18 rubenwardy well, I'm going by the free software definition here 16:18 tango_ but then again me and the FSF disagree on other things too 16:18 tango_ 8-D 16:19 rubenwardy anyway, for more info: https://content.minetest.net/help/non_free/ 16:19 tango_ rubenwardy: in fact i'm not even sure the FSF would consider Cc BY_SA_NC non-free 16:20 tango_ since afaics it does respect their 4 freedomsn 16:21 rubenwardy prohibiting commercial use is certainly less non-free than the other things 16:21 tango_ ah they do classify it as a violation of rule 2 16:21 tango_ I disagre 16:21 rubenwardy it has problems though because "commercial use" can be vague 16:22 Helenah bravo whisky tango 16:22 tango_ rubenwardy: hm 16:23 rubenwardy well, not necessarily vague but have unintended limitations 16:23 rubenwardy For example, making a video of yourself playing a game with NC assets and monetising the video would be breaching NC 16:23 rubenwardy for CC BY-SA-NC specifically 16:23 rubenwardy most games have exceptions for this in their EULAs 16:25 specing CC-By-NC is bad here as it does not have a clear definition on what commercial use is 16:25 Helenah rubenwardy: Well... one simple statement with no context is always vague. 16:26 Helenah "Do is meant by this statement?" 16:26 Helenah "Can I commercially use it if I have only 5 employees?" 16:26 Helenah That ^ 16:26 tango_ cc does have some explanation about this 16:26 tango_ but yeah, I see where the problem would lie 16:27 tango_ that being said, I think I will do my own oil + oil lamp mod 16:27 Helenah So then you need to rummage through the licenses of the company offering the solution cause they put a vague statement on the solution. 16:27 tango_ I really wish mods were more composable 8-/ 16:27 specing also, you can use cc-by-nc commercially in e.g. italy 16:28 specing just donate 51+% of profit to charity 16:29 rubenwardy company profit or profit of that work? 16:29 specing company 16:29 specing I've heard this 2/3-rd hand, so idk if it works 16:34 celeron55 that's an interesting interpretation 16:43 tango_ well it does kind of defeat the “primary for profit” clause in NC 16:44 tango_ if you give away > half of what you get from it 16:54 specing add some creative accounting and you can wipe that profit away 17:23 Helenah Why is my game always on mute? 17:23 Helenah I unmute it, come back to it sometime, it's muted again... :/ 17:24 Helenah I've asked my gf if she's muting it and she says "no" 17:24 Helenah cause she's said in the past many times that the animal noises do her marbles in 17:26 Helenah I figured it out, I must be hitting M by mistake. 17:28 rubenwardy lol, I do that to 17:28 rubenwardy +o 17:29 sfan5 I'd support a permanently displayed icon if you have your game muted 17:29 sfan5 then you have a chance to notice that you accidentally hit it 17:33 specing or just unbind mute 17:38 tango_ but you might want to mute it 17:55 Calinou unbinding the mute key by default sounds good to me 17:55 Calinou it's uncommon for games to have a mute key by default 17:55 Calinou except for voice chat in some games, where you may want to have a "clutch key" during tense moments so your teammates don't shout in your ears while you're trying to hear footsteps 17:55 Calinou (CS:GO added this as a default feature recently) 17:57 Calinou https://imgur.com/a/Qg6reVE 18:03 rubenwardy yeah, I think unbinding mute is the best approach 18:04 Krock remove the default from defaultsettings. that's the approach hre 18:25 Biggvs_richardvs Anyone familiar with nssm know why it (apparently) won't run under 5.3.0? 18:25 Biggvs_richardvs I have it enabled and mob redo, which is apparently reqired, and nothing else but default MT mods 18:26 Biggvs_richardvs No mobs spawning 18:27 Biggvs_richardvs Errors like this showing with --info switch starting server: 18:27 Biggvs_richardvs 2020-12-18 01:54:18: WARNING[Main]: Field "tile_images": Deprecated; new name is "tiles".2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: stack traceback:2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: [C]: in function 'register_item_raw'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:182: in function 'register_item'2020-12-18 01:54:18: 18:27 Biggvs_richardvs INFO[Main]: /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/register.lua:208: in function 'register_node'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/nssm_materials.lua:302: in main chunk2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: [C]: in function 'dofile'2020-12-18 01:54:18: INFO[Main]: /home/moi/.minetest/mods/nssm/init.lua:68: in main chunk 18:27 Krock I don't see any error there. Only a warning 18:27 rubenwardy that doesn't look like an error, that just telling you a deprecation 18:27 rubenwardy that's fine 18:28 rubenwardy lol, ninja'd :'( 18:28 Biggvs_richardvs Ya 18:28 Krock :P 18:28 Biggvs_richardvs But that's the only indicator of any kind I have as to why it might not be spawning mobs 18:28 Krock are you using Minetest Game, or another variant? 18:28 rubenwardy have you been exploring new areas? It might only explore there 18:29 Krock nssm uses ABMs, thus it should spawn every now and then 18:29 Biggvs_richardvs Unless I'm missing a configuration step like I need a spawn.lua file or something, but I thought that was optional 18:29 Krock oh right. check the settings. maybe it disabled some mobs by default 18:29 Biggvs_richardvs Minetest game 18:29 Krock !mod nssm 18:29 MinetestBot Krock: Not So Simple Mobs [nssm] by npx - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11813 - https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm 18:29 Biggvs_richardvs brand new server instance, so eerything is new 18:30 Biggvs_richardvs Krock Ok I'll try 18:30 Biggvs_richardvs oh nm 18:30 Krock there are a few settings: https://github.com/NPXcoot/nssm/blob/master/settingtypes.txt 18:30 Krock no idea why it's mapgen-dependent but that might do the trick to add minetest.conf settings accordingly 18:30 rubenwardy also, maybe try enabling damage? 18:30 rubenwardy maybe 18:31 Krock right. checkboxes for damage and creative unticked 18:31 Krock you can still grant yourself creative in-game for the same effect. for immortality you'd need a mod 18:32 Krock delaying merge, adding 10642 to the list 18:32 Krock (ignore) 18:36 Biggvs_richardvs Krock could you elaborate on " add minetest.conf settings accordingly?" Looks like the default is mapgen 7, which is what I'm set to (default for 5.3.0) 18:37 Krock alright. then how about creative/damage settings? 18:37 Biggvs_richardvs creative is false in my minetest.conf 18:38 Biggvs_richardvs damage=true 18:38 Biggvs_richardvs mobs_monsters for example works fine when I have it enabled 18:39 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: DevTest: Add food item to test food replacement (#10642) 13025035d https://git.io/JLRqc (152020-12-18T18:38:39Z) 18:39 MinetestBot 02[git] 04LoneWolfHT -> 03minetest/minetest: Make installer create its own Minetest folder (#10445) 13d5a481b https://git.io/JLRqC (152020-12-18T18:38:27Z) 18:39 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Documentation for highest formspec_version[] and changelog (#10592) 136f8a1c9 https://git.io/JLRqW (152020-12-18T18:38:07Z) 18:39 Biggvs_richardvs I just increased multimobs (Multimobs) int 5000 18:39 Krock init.lua 18:40 Krock move "spawn.lua" to the end of the file. perhaps that does the trick 18:40 Krock also 18:41 Krock delete mod.conf 18:41 Krock that one does not contain any dependency information, hence the mod loading order is not guaranteed 18:41 Krock deleting it will let Minetest fall back to the correct depends.txt 18:43 Krock nvm about mod.conf. there's backwards compat code in mods.cpp to cover this case 18:45 Biggvs_richardvs ok tried moving span and renaming mod.conf - testing now 18:54 Krock you can force newly generated area by renaming/removing the map data -> file map.sqlite 18:55 Krock as mentioned earlier, that might increase chances for spawning 18:59 Biggvs_richardvs I'm on brand new game, new map 19:03 Biggvs_richardvs Halfway through night time, nothing so far 19:04 Biggvs_richardvs with that setting at 5000, I would expect 5 times as many mobs but there are none 19:04 Krock 0 * 5 = 0 19:04 Biggvs_richardvs I'm wondering if since mobs redo is a dependency if there is soemthing in there 19:04 Krock but well.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't know 19:04 Biggvs_richardvs Krock Thank you for you help in any case! 19:05 Krock feel free to add print() statements to the spawn code to check whether there's something happening, increase the spawn chance setting again, whatever. 19:06 Biggvs_richardvs what would adding print() statements look like? 19:06 Krock print("reached this point in the code") 19:06 Krock print("reached this other point in the code 2") 19:06 Krock it would print the stuff to stdout (console) 19:07 Biggvs_richardvs got it 19:08 iamweasel gpl cannot prevent from distributing a lie :) only a lie without source :) 19:08 iamweasel mt 19:09 Biggvs_richardvs I just noticed this at top of spawn code: 19:09 Biggvs_richardvs if (mymapgenis~=6) and (mymapgenis~=7) then mymapgenis = 7end-- Spawning parametersif mm ~= 0 then if mymapgenis == 6 then 19:09 Biggvs_richardvs Then all the spawning stull follows 19:10 Biggvs_richardvs Looks like spawning will only happen is mymapgenis == 6 19:11 Krock no, below there's "else" 19:11 Krock which covers all other mapgens 19:11 Biggvs_richardvs Not seeing the "else" 19:11 Krock line 55 19:12 Biggvs_richardvs Ah got it 19:34 Biggvs_richardvs Hmm looks like it's working now. Couldn't tell you why 19:34 Krock randomness 20:31 Andrey01 hello, do 'minexptime/maxexptime' of the particlespawner define how long the emitted particles live? Just it is not documented in lua_api.txt 21:04 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L8268-L8269 21:04 sfan5 oh he left 21:05 Lukwe aw 21:26 tango_ does MT light decrease linearly, -1 per node? 23:37 tango_ Calinou: does moreblocks remove the obsidian => obsidian glass recipe? 23:37 Calinou I don't know 23:37 Calinou and yes, light decreases linearly, -1 per node 23:38 Calinou although the light value is not linear when rendered 23:44 tango_ hm it definitely looks like I can't cook obsidian to its glass with moreblocks 23:44 tango_ I wonder why, I see nothing that would touch that recipe 23:44 tango_ unless all glass recipes get wiped before? 23:54 tango_ oh wait I'm stupid 23:54 tango_ it's the shards, not the mined obsidian