| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:28 |
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| 03:56 |
Verticen |
Is there any way to play minetest in simple sterioscopic 3d? Just a simple side-by-side screen split would be fine - I can handle the rest. Is there a mod out there that can do this? |
| 04:37 |
minduser00 |
Verticen: look at the minetest settings, menu Client/Graphics/Inside game/advanced/ |
| 04:39 |
minduser00 |
there is a setting 3d-mode |
| 04:55 |
Verticen |
<minduser00> Thank you! |
| 05:00 |
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| 06:56 |
tango_ |
Calinou: for moreblocks there is actually one more old recipe that needs updating, that would be the rails one. However the changes in default are considerably more extensive, so it probably needs more reasoning on how to “expand” it for moreblocks. shall I open an issue about this on github? |
| 07:21 |
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| 07:28 |
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| 10:36 |
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| 11:10 |
Helenah |
I don't like the way the authentication systems work on Minetest. |
| 11:10 |
Helenah |
It's horrible when I want to control who can be a member and who can't. |
| 11:10 |
Helenah |
One can simply click "Register", type their password in again and voila... |
| 11:10 |
Helenah |
I installed NoNew mod, but it isn't the solution I want. |
| 11:11 |
Helenah |
I don't want one to create an account, the server kick them then purge their account, I don't see this as secure but rather hacky. |
| 11:12 |
Helenah |
What I'm wanting to do is disable the registration function in its entirety and I manually add users to a database. You see, my minetest server isn't for the public, it's for my club members to play with each other. |
| 11:12 |
tango_ |
Helenah: there are a couple of solutions |
| 11:12 |
tango_ |
Helenah: one way to do it is to set a default password |
| 11:12 |
tango_ |
then new users would have to know that password, or they will be rejected |
| 11:12 |
tango_ |
then you can either give the default password to your club members, or add them manually |
| 11:13 |
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| 11:14 |
Helenah |
tango_: So... user foo types "foo" install the username field and bar into the password field where bar is always the default password that was set? |
| 11:14 |
tango_ |
Helenah: they can change their password afterwards |
| 11:15 |
tango_ |
or if you add them manually just give them a different password and they'll login with that |
| 11:15 |
tango_ |
my friends are I are using this mechanism |
| 11:15 |
Helenah |
tango_: I want to add them manually. |
| 11:15 |
tango_ |
then don't give them the default password |
| 11:15 |
Helenah |
Okay |
| 11:17 |
Helenah |
tango_: What is rollback recording? |
| 11:18 |
tango_ |
Helenah: whtat? |
| 11:18 |
tango_ |
what? |
| 11:19 |
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| 11:19 |
Helenah |
tango_: A config option called enable_rollback_recording |
| 11:20 |
tango_ |
Helenah: not sure about the details, but it basically records the actions taken so that they can be rolled back in case of failures |
| 11:20 |
Helenah |
oh nice |
| 11:21 |
tango_ |
Helenah: eh, depends on which mods you use, |
| 11:21 |
tango_ |
see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2335 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6577 |
| 11:25 |
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| 11:25 |
Helenah |
tango_: Read |
| 11:28 |
Helenah |
tango_: I might have put it in the wrong place, but minetest.conf has ignored "default_password |
| 11:28 |
Helenah |
I was able to get onto the server |
| 11:29 |
Helenah |
Oh, actually it works! So accounts are still created even with NoNew?! That's bad... that mod is gone now anyway. |
| 11:29 |
tango_ |
good |
| 11:30 |
Helenah |
tango_: How do I remove an account? I've found out how to create one. |
| 11:30 |
tango_ |
Helenah: no idea |
| 11:32 |
Helenah |
tango_: Apparently I've to edit auth.sqlite :/ |
| 11:33 |
Helenah |
I might write something |
| 11:34 |
Helenah |
I don't wanna manually mess around with a database... that's crazy. |
| 11:35 |
Helenah |
I found something that looked interesting though, a function to make minetest use a custom authentication handler. |
| 11:37 |
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| 11:56 |
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| 12:13 |
rubenwardy |
[11:11] <558b2fHelenah> I don't want one to create an account, the server kick them then purge their account, I don't see this as secure but rather hacky |
| 12:13 |
rubenwardy |
This isn't how it worked. The account is never created |
| 12:14 |
rubenwardy |
[11:12] <Helenah> What I'm wanting to do is disable the registration function in its entirety and I manually add users to a database. You see, my minetest server isn't for the public, it's for my club members to play with each other. |
| 12:14 |
rubenwardy |
You can do this with a custom authentication handler |
| 12:14 |
rubenwardy |
Rejecting a player in Prejoin will mean their account is never created |
| 12:14 |
rubenwardy |
Although, they still see the form I guess |
| 12:15 |
rubenwardy |
With a custom auth handler, you would prevent them from seeing that form |
| 12:16 |
rubenwardy |
See register_auth_handler in lua_api |
| 12:17 |
rubenwardy |
Also, don't put your server on the serverlist if it's not for the public |
| 12:18 |
rubenwardy |
Sauth is an example of a custom auth handler backed by an sqlite database |
| 12:19 |
rubenwardy |
Actually, setting a default password would probably have a similar effect to this whilst keeping the existing database |
| 12:19 |
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| 12:24 |
rubenwardy |
Ok, it may actually create an auth row for the user but not a profile when rejected |
| 12:33 |
Helenah |
If I was to write a better authentication system for minetest, would you accept it? |
| 12:34 |
specing |
> Helenah | I don't wanna manually mess around with a database... that's crazy. |
| 12:34 |
specing |
well, actually |
| 12:34 |
specing |
you could make a nice webapp for manually adding users |
| 12:34 |
specing |
or an IRC bot |
| 12:35 |
Helenah |
specing: Yeah, I was thinking of writing something like that. |
| 12:35 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: I've looked into the register_auth_handler already, it's nice. |
| 12:36 |
specing |
and, since it uses a db, you should be able to do it without touching MT source at all |
| 12:37 |
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| 12:37 |
Helenah |
specing: Well for one, the auth system tells people why they were rejected ie "invalid password", you know that's a security vulnerability, right? |
| 12:38 |
Helenah |
That hints the person what to bruteforce allowing them to know they entered an existing username. |
| 12:38 |
Helenah |
This is bad. |
| 12:38 |
rubenwardy |
That's called user enumeration |
| 12:38 |
Helenah |
It should be changed to "access denied" or something like that |
| 12:38 |
Helenah |
That way they've to guess whether the username or the password is incorrect. |
| 12:38 |
rubenwardy |
You can usually user enumerate using user registration |
| 12:39 |
rubenwardy |
If that's possible, then there's no need to protect against username enumeration on login |
| 12:39 |
rubenwardy |
Well, registration could be disabled |
| 12:40 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Thing is... I set a default password but now I'm having to change the message to "access denied" cause when a user tries to register, they get "invalid password" and I don't want them figuring out what I did... |
| 12:40 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: So how do I simply disable it? |
| 12:40 |
Helenah |
It isn't actually disabled when a default password is set. |
| 12:40 |
specing |
Helenah: How is that a vulnerability? |
| 12:40 |
specing |
it's not |
| 12:40 |
Helenah |
specing: How is it not? |
| 12:40 |
Helenah |
You are telling the person "invalid password" which is true. |
| 12:41 |
specing |
Helenah: you can scrape the master server list for usernames, and then bruteforce them when they are not logged in |
| 12:41 |
Helenah |
Surely you don't tell your attacker they got a password wrong but leave them in the lurk wondering what they did wrong. |
| 12:41 |
sfan5 |
it's a vulnerability if your scenario is to deny new users without leaking the info that they require a password |
| 12:41 |
Helenah |
sfan5: That's the point |
| 12:41 |
sfan5 |
..but that's not a common scenario |
| 12:41 |
Helenah |
and will be the point for a lot of people wanting a closed up server. |
| 12:41 |
Helenah |
Surely |
| 12:42 |
Helenah |
Lets say you got a website and a login feature, surely you don't tell the person attempting to sign in where they went wrong but rather just deny them and tell them they were denied but not why they were denied. |
| 12:42 |
rubenwardy |
Depends |
| 12:42 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: On what? |
| 12:42 |
Calinou |
tango_: sure :) |
| 12:42 |
rubenwardy |
What information you're protecting against |
| 12:43 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: The information I'm protecting against ofc! |
| 12:43 |
Helenah |
It's that simple |
| 12:43 |
rubenwardy |
ContentDB tells you if your username doesn't exist because you can already enumerate usernames publically |
| 12:43 |
Helenah |
surely |
| 12:43 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: So allow them to think "Oh I need to enumerate" |
| 12:44 |
Helenah |
Don't like hint them into doing so as they might have not thought "Lets enumerate" |
| 12:44 |
rubenwardy |
With minetest accounts, you can enumerate if registration is enabled |
| 12:44 |
specing |
I wish there was a common auth db shared to all servers |
| 12:44 |
Calinou |
to be fair, the message could be changed to "invalid username or password" |
| 12:44 |
specing |
so I didn't have to register in every new server |
| 12:44 |
Calinou |
but I wouldn't go further than that |
| 12:44 |
Helenah |
specing: If people want it them yes |
| 12:44 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think it's a good idea to reduce user experience for the sake of security theatre |
| 12:44 |
Helenah |
But that should be a choice for the person hosting the server |
| 12:44 |
Helenah |
Not enforced |
| 12:45 |
specing |
Helenah: it should be enforced |
| 12:45 |
Helenah |
... |
| 12:45 |
Calinou |
I doubt anyone will go through the length of enumerating usernames to bruteforce their passwords on a game where no money is involved |
| 12:45 |
rubenwardy |
"ivalid username or password" makes sense if registration is disabled, which is something you want to support |
| 12:45 |
specing |
you log-in to the lobby, and then the lobby auths you to servers |
| 12:45 |
Calinou |
this isn't Steam account cracking, it's an open source game with no paid in-game items |
| 12:46 |
Helenah |
Why are we bringing open source vs proprietary vs real money into the discussion? |
| 12:46 |
rubenwardy |
The Minetest login system does need to change to separate register and login, because currently it's confusing |
| 12:51 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Also allow for a server to not accept registrations. |
| 12:51 |
Helenah |
With that, you'd hit the Register feature for that server within the client. |
| 12:52 |
Helenah |
*hide |
| 12:52 |
rubenwardy |
Exactly, you require that separation in order to properly disable it |
| 12:52 |
Helenah |
Now onto what specing was saying... |
| 12:53 |
Helenah |
If someone wants their server to be a member of a public lobby of servers |
| 12:53 |
Helenah |
Then they've to set it I think |
| 12:53 |
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| 12:54 |
Helenah |
One example is I like to log into Minetest servers as "Helenah" |
| 12:54 |
Helenah |
but I noticed on some of them, that username is taken cause of how simple it is. |
| 12:54 |
Helenah |
So I choose another one for those particular servers. |
| 12:54 |
specing |
I also wish for rules to be published somewhere before you register/login |
| 12:55 |
specing |
maybe as another json tag in the master list |
| 12:55 |
Helenah |
specing: Surely rules should be down to the admins of the server. |
| 12:55 |
Helenah |
Not the minetest community |
| 12:55 |
specing |
yes |
| 12:55 |
specing |
What I meant was a way for the rules to be published on the server list |
| 12:55 |
Helenah |
Ah, sorry I may have misunderstood that part. |
| 12:55 |
Helenah |
Yes, that would be good |
| 12:56 |
Helenah |
You register, and you've to agree to rules, like how WoW does it with their TOS and EULA but in this case, it would be server rules. |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
"real money" is a big incentive for people cracking into accounts |
| 12:56 |
Helenah |
I'm for that feature |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
it's why it's heavily advised to use 2FA for a Steam account :) |
| 12:56 |
specing |
Helenah: it could/should be before registration |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
even Minecraft accounts aren't that cheap, with the game being sold for €26 |
| 12:57 |
Helenah |
specing: Yeah, that's a good point actually. |
| 12:57 |
specing |
Helenah: there was a server that presented me with a rules formspec when I joined. It even kicked me when I pressed disagree :P |
| 12:57 |
Calinou |
in other words, trust in https://xkcd.com/538 |
| 12:58 |
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| 12:59 |
rubenwardy |
I use such a formspec |
| 13:02 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Which formspec are you using? |
| 13:02 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/mt-ctf/rules |
| 13:06 |
Helenah |
"1. No swearing, dating, or other inappriopriate behaviour.", |
| 13:06 |
Helenah |
Lol "dating" haha |
| 13:06 |
Helenah |
Sorry.. I should laugh... |
| 13:06 |
Helenah |
Anyway, thank you for linking me to that rubenwardy :) |
| 13:06 |
rubenwardy |
Immature kids pretend to date |
| 13:06 |
Helenah |
*shouldn't |
| 13:06 |
rubenwardy |
It's annoying to everyone, so banned |
| 13:06 |
Helenah |
Ah |
| 13:08 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: What's wrong with a bit of play though? |
| 13:08 |
Helenah |
I'm a kitty cat on my server! |
| 13:09 |
specing |
It's a dating sandbox! |
| 13:10 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Theres even the "courtyard of cock" |
| 13:10 |
Helenah |
Is there an offtopic channel? |
| 13:10 |
* Helenah |
checks topic |
| 13:10 |
Helenah |
No, there isn't, but I'll stop saying things like this. |
| 13:11 |
tango_ |
Calinou: https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/issues/162 tried to gather all the info I could |
| 13:11 |
rubenwardy |
This channel is basically offtopic |
| 13:11 |
rubenwardy |
It's unmoderated |
| 13:11 |
Helenah |
Oh phew |
| 13:11 |
Helenah |
phew |
| 13:11 |
rubenwardy |
Well, as in not a moderated strict chat. There are still moderators |
| 13:12 |
Helenah |
Anyway, outside the tower for trapping maidens, theres a signs adverting a job offer for anyone who wants to provide their titties. |
| 13:14 |
tango_ |
which is perfectly fine if that's what you want your server to be about |
| 13:14 |
tango_ |
otoh I can see why rubenwardy wouldn't want shenanigans on theirs |
| 13:15 |
rubenwardy |
The rules on CTF were quite lax to begin with, but then I had a few parents complain |
| 13:17 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Well that's fair enough if you intend for peoples kids to go on there as well as adults. |
| 13:17 |
Helenah |
Though mine is a private server and there will be no unauthorised people on there |
| 13:17 |
specing |
rubenwardy: parents? really? |
| 13:17 |
Helenah |
and the way my principles are is... we shouldn't be hiding children away from things so even if a 2 year old went on there and a parent complained to me that there was swearing or sex or whatever, I'd ignore it. |
| 13:20 |
rubenwardy |
I don't really play CTF, the rules and general management are handled by other people now |
| 13:23 |
rubenwardy |
If I were to make a new server, I wouldn't cater to kids quite so much - I'd still ban sexual behaviour and stuff but swearing is a big part of communication |
| 13:24 |
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| 13:24 |
rubenwardy |
You could also make the server less appealing to them. CTF is peak for that, given the trend for PvP |
| 13:24 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: Yeah, as a 4 year old, I knew of terms like "fuck" and "shit" and "pedophile" and through knowing these terms as I young age I was then taught boundaries which I have as an adult. |
| 13:24 |
rubenwardy |
The code behind CTF was originally written to be used in a kingdom Vs kingdom game, where players make different castles or whatever |
| 13:25 |
Helenah |
If we hid children from this stuff until they were 18, they would be vulgar. |
| 13:25 |
Helenah |
Cause they'd have no boundaries with it. |
| 13:25 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think it's about hiding so much as not normalising quite so much |
| 13:33 |
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| 15:18 |
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| 15:18 |
lmat |
I'm making a road way up in the sky. How should I make the offramps? I see that I can make roads:asphault_stairs, but galvanized fencing doesn't follow the steps down... any ideas? |
| 15:29 |
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| 16:20 |
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| 16:20 |
Helenah |
How do I convert technic HV to MV and to LV? |
| 16:20 |
Helenah |
o.o |
| 16:20 |
Helenah |
It seems... transformers are built into the machines... |
| 16:20 |
Helenah |
But I don't wanna have to run all three cable types everywhere... |
| 16:21 |
SwissalpS |
converters is what they are called, iirc. input on top and output at bottom |
| 16:21 |
Helenah |
Oh, supply converter. |
| 16:21 |
Helenah |
SwissalpS: Can it... convert HV to LV? |
| 16:21 |
SwissalpS |
you can convert LV to HV too, yes that way too |
| 16:21 |
Helenah |
Sorry, there isn't much documentation. |
| 16:22 |
SwissalpS |
what some forget is to put switching station on both networks |
| 16:23 |
Helenah |
Wait... |
| 16:23 |
Helenah |
So lets say... |
| 16:23 |
Helenah |
I have an HV network and an LV network connected together, I've to put a switching station on both? o.o |
| 16:24 |
SwissalpS |
yes, one for HV and one for LV. The converters 'connect' |
| 16:24 |
Helenah |
So, converter between the two switching stations? |
| 16:25 |
SwissalpS |
I say converters bc mostly you want more than one. each can convert max 10kEU |
| 16:25 |
SwissalpS |
one SS on HV cable which is on top of converters, one SS on LV cable which is on bottom of converters |
| 16:32 |
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| 16:38 |
Helenah |
How do I pick up a mobs_animal? |
| 16:38 |
Helenah |
The documentation says they can be "picked up" but doesn't say "how". |
| 16:39 |
Helenah |
Oh it has to be tamed, right |
| 16:39 |
SwissalpS |
I've set up an extensive mobs tutorial on pandorabox.io |
| 16:40 |
SwissalpS |
oc only the mobs used there |
| 16:40 |
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| 16:45 |
Helenah |
SwissalpS: Appareciated, I wanted to say the documentation is poor but I held back. |
| 16:47 |
SwissalpS |
yeah, kinda why I made an in-game tutorial |
| 16:47 |
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| 18:15 |
Helenah |
Why is the AI in mobs_redo soo stupid? |
| 18:16 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> give mobkit a chance? |
| 18:16 |
Helenah |
Okies |
| 18:17 |
Helenah |
Jonathon, mobs don't spawn in front of you and then despawn when you turn around, right? |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
because it's naively implemented |
| 18:18 |
rubenwardy |
mobkit looks better, although the API is a mess |
| 18:20 |
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| 18:20 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: What about the behaviour of the AI? |
| 18:20 |
Helenah |
Does it stay spawned when you are around? |
| 18:21 |
rubenwardy |
the behaviour seems to be better |
| 18:21 |
Helenah |
I mean the other day I watched a crocodile turn into a shark, turned my back on it, it vanished... |
| 18:21 |
rubenwardy |
as for staying spawned, that's may be the engine killing mapblocks too quickly |
| 18:21 |
rubenwardy |
you can try increasing the active range |
| 18:21 |
rubenwardy |
it could also just be mobs redo |
| 18:23 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: When I turned my back, I didn't mean I walked away, I mean I just turned |
| 18:23 |
Helenah |
so why would the mapblock become unloaded? |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
I understand that - the engine uses your look direction to increase the load distance in that direction |
| 18:23 |
rubenwardy |
but that shouldn't unload things near you |
| 18:24 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: I'd say the shark was 5 blocks away from me |
| 18:24 |
Helenah |
So it's probably mobs_redo then |
| 18:34 |
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| 18:39 |
Helenah |
Jonathon: mobkit sounds to be incomplete. |
| 18:39 |
Helenah |
rubenwardy: ^ |
| 18:39 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 18:39 |
rubenwardy |
everything is incomplete |
| 18:40 |
rubenwardy |
mobkit is also just an API, there's mods that use it: https://content.minetest.net/metapackages/mobkit/ |
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| 19:48 |
hecks |
So how do you skin item slots in forms and the hud? Is that even possible? |
| 19:52 |
sfan5 |
gui_hotbar.png gui_hotbar_selected.png, dunno to which extent those are configurable |
| 19:57 |
hecks |
recommended size? |
| 19:58 |
hecks |
gui_hotbar provided by the game is somehow ignored |
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| 20:04 |
hecks |
oh it's api |
| 20:04 |
hecks |
hud_set_hotbar_image |
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perrier |
mob_chance_multiplier do higher numbers mean less mobs or more? |
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| 22:13 |
tango_ |
cripes, getting rid of flowing water underwater is nontrivial |
| 22:14 |
perrier |
I think the update to unified inventory this morning deleted my bag. |
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| 23:54 |
SwissalpS |
perrier: it's 1 out of x chance |
| 23:55 |
SwissalpS |
so x = 1 would mean every time |
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