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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-12-05

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00:24 specing I like AGPLv3
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03:06 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Revert "Increase limit for simultaneous blocks sent per client and th… 07e0b52 https://git.io/JIs7H (2020-12-05T03:06:16Z)
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10:30 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> AGPL will ALWAYS limit the creativity of server owners by default imo, because absolutely everything they tweak in order to be unique must be published...Personally I hate that license
10:32 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> I'm not against sharing some code or helping others with their wanted features, but having to publish every single bit I changed is a big no-no for me
10:34 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> Because of that license I had to remove some mods my players loved...it's a pitty
10:35 MTDiscord <J​onathon> i dont mind it i suppose, but im a MIT guy for everything i originally write
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10:45 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> I actually published 1 mod in the past I think and its code is MIT too
10:47 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> So I think as long as server owners share their knowledge in some way, it's not unfair to have them "lock" their content away from the community
10:49 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> I also coded stuff for quite a few people in this discord server here already, so I'm willing to share knowledge and help at least
10:51 MTDiscord <J​onathon> Heh, i can understand some stuff, but by in large i open up my stuff
10:52 MTDiscord <J​onathon> I.e. ive written some stuff for people with nonfree media they made
10:54 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> In my opinion every snippet you share counts even if it's not a full mod you at least helped someone with some parts
10:55 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> With that snippet they might be able to continue their project so you definitely contributed to the community
10:57 MTDiscord <J​onathon> I see no point in releaseing almost by the book node defs without media lol
10:57 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> I'm not sure how licensing works though if a mod contains many small snipets by other...Usually you don't require a license for a simple snippet but maybe some do
10:58 MTDiscord <J​onathon> Im nal, but i think once its out of common use/small should be liscensed/attributed
11:02 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> I didn't see a MT snippet yet that requires attribution at least...or does ruben's modding book?
11:04 MTDiscord <J​onathon> No idea, i believe that has a license
11:05 MTDiscord <J​onathon> But stuff like basic node registration literally everyone has to do
11:05 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> Yeah or basic use of callbacks...it's in almost every mod
11:08 Calinou the number of lines required for a code snippet to be copyrightable is usually considered to be around 20
11:08 Calinou of course, it depends on what the snippet contains
11:12 MTDiscord <J​onathon> Figures
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13:43 MTDiscord <W​arr1024> If the "snippet" is significant enough to warrant publishing at all then a few minimis exception probably doesn't apply and the work would be copyrighted and would need either a license or a reassignment.  The only cases where I assume de minimis applies is when someone says like "that + should be a - on line 5" or something.
13:55 lmat cheapie: heh. I have no idea what silver sand is either I just figured that whatever it is, it could probably be used to create a convincing concrete. Fair argument :-D
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18:38 tango_ is there a way to prevent automatic registration for users?
18:38 tango_ I'd like to put a server up in public, but I don't want random users to login as they please
18:38 tango_ s/login/create account
18:39 sfan5 the keyword you're looking for is "whitelist"
18:40 tango_ sfan5: thanks
18:40 heavygale or a default_password
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18:49 tech_exorcist wouldn't it eb safer to put the password's hash in the default_password field instead of the plaintext password?
18:49 tech_exorcist s/ eb / be /
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18:59 hecks tango_: you can also just run your server unlisted
19:00 Andrey01 does anybody know if I call 'minetest.after()' inside a body of a loop will this loop await for when that function gets implemented or immediately continue to go on?
19:02 sfan5 it will not
19:02 specing the latter
19:02 hecks .after just gives the engine a closure to run later
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19:04 Andrey01 hmm, I have an other question, can I also create coroutines in mods?
19:07 Andrey01 It would be interesting to know how the main thread would behave in such case'
19:07 Andrey01 if create them
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19:09 hecks coroutines aren't actually threads
19:09 hecks and minetest gives you a complete lua vm, you can do anything that's in the manual
19:09 Andrey01 why? o_O
19:09 hecks coroutines don't spawn new OS threads, they're... coroutines
19:10 hecks coroutines share time with the main thread and have to yield manually
19:10 hecks however, if you want real threads, you can do that too - it's tricky but possible with luajit
19:10 hecks and maybe even plain lua? check out the 'lanes' module
19:11 Andrey01 well, as I know they are just implemented over the system ones, but I think they are threads whatever
19:12 Andrey01 and also they use 'thread' type :)
19:13 hecks no, coroutines aren't threads, they do not suffer from sync problems among other things
19:13 hecks and they give you no performance benefit. in any case, you're free to use them in mt
19:13 Hawk777 https://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#2.11 ← consider reading the manual: coroutines run until they yield (rather than until preempted), they only run when explicitly resumed (rather than whenever there is free CPU time available)
19:14 Hawk777 So they are not threads.
19:14 hecks yup, as opposed to threads which the OS can yank from under you at any time
19:14 hecks (unless in a critical section etc etc)
19:14 Hawk777 coroutine.resume() runs a coroutine, but blocks the caller, because it runs the coroutine in the same OS thread as the caller
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21:40 lmat VanessaE: My daughter had fake grass stairs (lots of them) and I did some upgrading...did they get removed?
21:40 lmat Is there a way to make real grass stairs by chance?
21:41 VanessaE I don't recall doing anything that would affect that.
21:42 lmat Hmmm, her crafting guide shows fake grass stairs still...but there are a bunch of UNKNOWN NODEs around her house.
21:42 lmat Maybe she had made fake grass stairs from a different mod that removed them...or something!
21:42 MTDiscord <J​onathon> do you have worldedit installed?
21:42 MTDiscord <J​onathon> if so //i and punch the unknowns
21:42 MTDiscord <J​onathon> to get names
21:43 MTDiscord <J​onathon> //i off when your done
21:43 lmat oh wow! There's "Dirt with Grass" now!?
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21:46 lmat But no default:dirt stairs with grass
21:46 lmat hmm
21:49 lmat VanessaE: Ah, I see what she made:   stairs:stair_fakegrass   Do you know about that block?
21:50 lmat NOT building_blocks:stair_fakegrass .
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21:50 VanessaE I don't remember what mod provides that, but might be moreblocks?
21:51 lmat grep stair_fakegrass . -r; in moreblock doesn't show it.
21:51 MTDiscord <J​onathon> building blocks from home decor modpack
21:52 lmat grep stair_fakegrass . -r; doesn't return anything in any of the mods I have. ... is there an easy way to convert all her stairs:stair_fakegrass to building_blocks:stair_fakegrass? Or will she just have to get it done?
21:52 lmat Jonathon: thank you
21:52 MTDiscord <J​onathon> give me a sec and i can give you a source on it
21:53 lmat Jonathon:  https://imgur.com/bEI3Nhx.png
21:53 MTDiscord <J​onathon> https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/homedecor_modpack/-/blob/master/building_blocks/node_stairs.lua#L88
21:53 MTDiscord <J​onathon> seems you have it installed
21:54 MTDiscord <J​onathon> perhaps its not enabled for some reason in world.mt?
21:54 lmat Could be!
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21:55 VanessaE sorry, guess I forgot about it
21:55 MTDiscord <J​onathon> i only know that block because i use it alot 😛
21:55 lmat Jonathon I have building_blocks enabled.
21:55 MTDiscord <J​onathon> do you have worledit?
21:55 MTDiscord <J​onathon> i suggest checking the unknowns
21:56 lmat Jonathon But you're pointing out building_blocks:fakegrass. What my daughter has is a bunch of stairs:stair_fakegrass.
21:56 MTDiscord <J​onathon> hmm, you could use moreblocks aliasing
21:56 MTDiscord <J​onathon> to alias one to the other
21:56 lmat Jonathon Oh, you were talking to me earlier when you said "do you have worldedit installed?" :-D  I just press f5 and point at it to tell me what it is.
21:57 MTDiscord <J​onathon> ah, sometimes that doesn't always work for m with unknowns
21:57 lmat I have moreblocks installed, but I don't understand how I can use moreblocks to create an alias.
21:57 MTDiscord <J​onathon> but i have no idea what stairs:stair_fakegrass is from
21:57 MTDiscord <J​onathon> moreblocks doesn't document that
21:57 MTDiscord <J​onathon> sec
21:58 lmat I did add asphaltstairs and concretestairs recently...hopefully they didn't bork my stairs...
22:00 lmat Jonathon: I mean, I can just edit some file (aliases.lua in building_blocks seems fine) and add minetest.register_alias("stair_fakegrass", "stairs:stair_fakegrass")    maybe?
22:01 lmat What I would like to do is actually convert any "stairs:stair_fakegrass" into "building_blocks:stair_fakegrass" :-)
22:01 lmat Rather than having to alias them each time.
22:01 MTDiscord <J​onathon> https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/blob/master/stairsplus/stairs.lua
22:01 MTDiscord <J​onathon> moreblocks allows you to alias all at one time
22:01 lmat Oh wow
22:01 MTDiscord <J​onathon> https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/blob/master/stairsplus/stairs.lua#L22-L27 to be exact
22:02 lmat Oh yeah there are some stair_inner_fakegrass...
22:03 lmat Jonathon: But I'll have to leave the alias there forever (or until she destroys her stairs), right?
22:03 MTDiscord <J​onathon> correct
22:04 * lmat sigh
22:04 MTDiscord <J​onathon> you could write a lbm to convert them
22:04 MTDiscord <J​onathon> but thats forever to unless you load the whole map
22:05 lmat Jonathon In that case I would just need to visit the nodes about which I care?
22:05 MTDiscord <J​onathon> yes
22:05 lmat I added the alias. They're still Unknown Node, but now when I point at them, it doesn't say what they are.
22:05 MTDiscord <J​onathon> hmm, wierd
22:06 lmat Do you happen to know how to write a lbm off the top of your head? :-D
22:06 MTDiscord <J​onathon> https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_lbm
22:06 lmat Thanks
22:06 MTDiscord <J​onathon> or just search up in your lua_api.txt
22:06 MTDiscord <J​onathon> in /docs
22:08 lmat Dude...if I botch this somehow, the whole map could be ruined, right?
22:08 lmat https://imgur.com/MRHX7dU.png Here is my lbm (doesn't touch the inner stairs)
22:09 MTDiscord <J​onathon> aside from the fact modname needs to be your actually modname
22:09 MTDiscord <J​onathon> you could do a test world
22:10 lmat Okay. I need to step away, but later I'll want to know how to back up my world in case I destroy it :-D
22:10 lmat I'm guessing I need to save map.sqlite?
22:11 MTDiscord <J​onathon> make sure the server is off, and copy the whole world file
22:11 lmat select count(*) from blocks; shows 1890257. That's a lot...
22:11 lmat Jonathon: okay.
22:11 lmat Heading out, but I'll be back eventually \0/
22:11 MTDiscord <J​onathon> cya
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22:13 MTDiscord <J​onathon> probably could copy map.sqlite into another world folder and test on that if you add a world.mt into it
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22:38 lmat Jonathon: Thanks for the hint!
22:48 lmat The marble stairs are also Unknown Node now. :'(
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23:05 MinetestBot [git] hecktest -> minetest/minetest: Implement mapblock camera offset correctly (#10702) 6d7067f https://git.io/JInwR (2020-12-05T23:03:40Z)
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23:44 hisforever HiI'm puzzled with whitch direction my grinder and furance has to be to produce?
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