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algun |
Hi. Remind me please, besides the correct placement of the basic_robot's spawner, what must I do to be able to listen to keyboard events? |
| 00:01 |
algun |
keyboard.get() always returns nil for me it seems |
| 00:01 |
algun |
should i pass it any arguments? |
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specing |
Is there a food-rebalancing script out there? Something that would munch all the register_node.on_use/item_eat() calls and assign weights to crafting/furnacing/etc steps such that all foods fall between 1 and 20 stamina? |
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rubenwardy |
not that I know of, sounds like a good modding task |
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| 12:31 |
ullnrr |
test |
| 12:32 |
ullnrr |
what would be the cheapest option to set up a server? |
| 12:34 |
ullnrr |
which server specs should i look for if i'm planning to have 10/15 people connected at the same time? |
| 12:37 |
sfan5 |
cheapest is a computer at your home (assuming you have a suitable network) |
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| 14:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> It’ll cost you more than enough money in VPS |
| 14:31 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Better off spending a few hundred up front for a Ryzen box |
| 14:32 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Stress testing my server with thousands of active objects and barely made dtime sweat on a 3xxx Ryzen |
| 14:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> From testing I use 1mbps per player at 30hz step time |
| 14:34 |
tango_ |
how good is multicore usage for MT? |
| 14:37 |
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| 14:44 |
sfan5 |
not very |
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| 14:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> The problem with self-hosting isn't necessarily cost, it's often internet access. People have crappy internet connections with terrible performance, or restrictive EULAs. People also may have lousy electrical service that makes it hard to maintain uptime, and they may not be around all hours of the day to babysit a machine. When you pay for a VPS, you're not really paying just for a computer, but also for people to manage some |
| 14:49 |
MTDiscord |
of the very basics for you. |
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MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> Electricity also costs money...and depending on where you live it can be a lot if you offer a 24/7 service |
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| 17:56 |
celeron55 |
fun fact: on the other hand, if you're heating with electricity, you might as well use a server to generate the heat instead of directly using a heater element. but in places where electric heating is used electricity isn't that expensive anyway |
| 18:03 |
specing |
in that case one uses a heat pump |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> That’s what scaleway does in Belgium and France iirc |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> They had some experiments with Atoms |
| 18:06 |
celeron55 |
specing: depends on the outside temperature, here it gets cold enough that a heat pump doesn't get much efficiency when most heating is required |
| 18:06 |
specing |
depends on the heat pump too |
| 18:06 |
specing |
mine is cheaper than gas down to about -10'C |
| 18:07 |
celeron55 |
also, an air-to-air heat pump makes noise |
| 18:07 |
specing |
indeed it does |
| 18:07 |
celeron55 |
altough so makes a server |
| 18:07 |
specing |
But it's not the only type of heat pump |
| 18:07 |
specing |
ait-to-water is also popular as dropin for traditional natural gas boilers |
| 18:08 |
celeron55 |
of course, altough others are really expensive if you don't already have heating ducts or pipes and radiators |
| 18:08 |
specing |
though it's hideously expensive (jacked up prices I guess, subsidies did their work...) |
| 18:08 |
specing |
indeed |
| 18:08 |
specing |
air-air (traditional mini-split airconditioner) is the cheapest way to heat/cool |
| 18:09 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> Regarding sound volume I can’t even hear my Ryzen machine at full whack running operations on a 250gb SQL database all night long |
| 18:09 |
specing |
at least here |
| 18:10 |
celeron55 |
in my house i have a rather capable wood fireplace, resistive heaters, other old fireplaces converterd into energy storing resistive heaters, an air-to-air heat pump and a resistively heated hot water reservoir |
| 18:10 |
celeron55 |
resistive heaters are quite fine when they can be run on cheap night electricity |
| 18:10 |
celeron55 |
converted* |
| 18:10 |
specing |
nope |
| 18:11 |
specing |
even the worst air-to-air heat pumps have 250% "energy efficiency" |
| 18:11 |
specing |
the $500 ones you can get in random shops |
| 18:11 |
celeron55 |
it gets down to -25°C here every winter, an air-to-air heat pump does basically nothing more than a resistive heater at those temperatures, some are even programmed to refuse to operate |
| 18:11 |
specing |
mini-splits, that is, the window mount or portable ones are a complete joke |
| 18:11 |
celeron55 |
or just break down |
| 18:12 |
specing |
ah yes, at -25'C you want a water-water one |
| 18:12 |
specing |
with a well down to groundwater |
| 18:15 |
celeron55 |
that would cost more than 10 years worth of resistive+wood heating and still consumes some electricity on top of that |
| 18:16 |
celeron55 |
and at that point it already needs considerable maintenance |
| 18:17 |
celeron55 |
of course depending on luck |
| 18:19 |
celeron55 |
potentially a litecoin mining rig would be the most cost effective heater. get some of the electicity cost back in virtual currency 8) |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> With the cost of a decent asic or GPU you might as well spend it elsewhere at current difficulties |
| 18:20 |
specing |
celeron55: highly likely, yes |
| 18:20 |
specing |
a water-water heat pump setup is like $30000 |
| 18:22 |
specing |
I wonder how easy it would be to convert an air-air mini-split into a water-air one |
| 18:22 |
celeron55 |
in my experience, for money laundering, firewood works just as well as cryptocurrencies, if you need to do legally questionable activities 8) |
| 18:22 |
specing |
submerge it's external radiator into a water tank and add a pump that pumps groundwater up into it |
| 18:22 |
celeron55 |
of course it takes a truck to haul firewood around unlike bitcoins |
| 18:23 |
specing |
and do the same with the internal radiator , submerge it to a tank + add a pump to make it go around radiators |
| 18:23 |
celeron55 |
i guess it could work |
| 18:23 |
specing |
replace $20000 of ripoff with $2000 of material + some work |
| 18:24 |
celeron55 |
you don't think there's a reason for the $20k price tag? |
| 18:24 |
specing |
there is: subsidies |
| 18:24 |
specing |
they jacked up the price because they can |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
oh yeah, you can get subsidies for some things around here too, but i think it's only for converting away from an oil boiler or something |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
they consider any electric heating to be fine |
| 18:26 |
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| 18:27 |
celeron55 |
of course if you get very political you could state that nobody has the right to live in a cold place |
| 18:27 |
celeron55 |
because they'll have to use so much energy |
| 18:29 |
celeron55 |
anyway |
| 18:29 |
celeron55 |
if i had in-floor heating with water pipes i could experiment with all that |
| 18:30 |
celeron55 |
but my floor is from 1930 with some added insulation in the 80s. the nice thing about that is that it'll last forever with no maintenance |
| 18:31 |
celeron55 |
there's beauty in things where nothing can go wrong |
| 18:32 |
celeron55 |
add water pipes and in 30 years you'll have nightmares every night of them bursting |
| 18:32 |
celeron55 |
if not earlier |
| 18:33 |
specing |
you can add plastic ones, those should last much longer |
| 18:33 |
specing |
or use some other fluid that water |
| 18:33 |
celeron55 |
probably illegal to use anything else than water due to environmental concerns |
| 18:36 |
celeron55 |
one thing i don't understand |
| 18:37 |
celeron55 |
why are air-to-air heat pumps always installed in absolutely idiotic places where you never want to run them becase you get a flu from them blowing right at you where you sit every day |
| 18:39 |
specing |
Illegal? I don't think so |
| 18:39 |
specing |
celeron55: well, you are not supposed to be "blowing" them |
| 18:40 |
specing |
but actually, I have it directly above where my home "office" is, and it's very enjoyable |
| 18:40 |
specing |
People get sick because of temperature differences, probably |
| 18:41 |
specing |
I think there's a rule of "no more than 5'C", so don't cool to more than outside-5'C, or don't go outside/spend some time in a transition area |
| 18:41 |
celeron55 |
if you have a tendency for dry eyes or such any airflow is unbearable |
| 18:42 |
celeron55 |
both when heating and cooling |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
and the heated air often isn't hot enough for it to even feel warm at all, when heating |
| 18:43 |
celeron55 |
and if it was, efficiency would go down |
| 18:43 |
specing |
I have it set to 23.5'C and it feels warm |
| 18:44 |
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MinetestBot |
[git] lhofhansl -> minetest/minetest: Avoid marking map blocks dirty upon deserialization. f1349be https://git.io/JkHAK (2020-11-26T19:41:55Z) |
| 19:53 |
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| 20:29 |
fattywompus |
How much space could a minetest server conceivably take up with say one fully explored game world just as a reference? |
| 20:29 |
Krock |
you'd need an entire storage room for that |
| 20:29 |
Krock |
nah, just a few terabytes |
| 20:37 |
MinetestBot |
[git] srinivas32 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Added ppc64le architecture to travis-ci (#81) e88fcf0 https://git.io/JkQvS (2020-11-26T20:36:44Z) |
| 20:40 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> My map is restricted to 15000 in all directions and is largely explored by now...the size is 76 GB |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Fix style 8689e00 https://git.io/JkQJL (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Provide fallback star color for GLES 2 with MT shaders disabled c158e20 https://git.io/JkQJt (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Sky: support GLES2 cdcf7dc https://git.io/JkQJq (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Allow missing shaders be59668 https://git.io/JkQJm (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Replace TriangleFan as poorly supported d7cf40a https://git.io/JkQJY (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Reuse seed when updating stars 560627e https://git.io/JkQJO (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Store stars in a single static mesh buffer 3077afc https://git.io/JkQJ3 (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Don't evaluate things many times 89cc5bf https://git.io/JkQJG (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:49 |
MinetestBot |
[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Batch cloud drawing 095f826 https://git.io/JkQJZ (2020-11-26T20:49:10Z) |
| 20:54 |
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| 20:59 |
fattywompus |
Wow that pretty sizeable. I have a loose 256 GB SSD and was torn between upgrading the 128GB SSD in my old backup gaming rig then using the freed up 128 GB SSD in an old P4 machine to use as a server. I guess the 256 would be a safer bet for the server |
| 21:06 |
Krock |
fattywompus: you can always limit the map to not generate further than, say, 4000m into each direction |
| 21:06 |
Krock |
that also limits it quite a lot |
| 21:06 |
MTDiscord |
<IhrFussel> Keep in mind that it entirely depends on multiple factors: 1. Whether or not you set a mapgen limit 2. What type of gameplay your server has (teleportation mostly generates more random map parts versus just exploring) 3. How many players you have 4. How active those are...the world I use is over 4 years old now and it has 500,000+ accounts created...after several years 70-100 GB is not a lot I'd say |
| 21:06 |
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| 21:28 |
hisforever |
Hi I'm having trouble understanding the billboard mod? |
| 21:28 |
specing |
You could save a lot of space by regularly pruning old blocks |
| 21:28 |
specing |
blocks that have only natural nodes + torches/super glow glass |
| 21:31 |
hisforever |
I just made a theather and need a sign on it? hear is my lua file https://pastebin.com/tHDgcSSN |
| 21:35 |
hisforever |
the error is at line 111 |
| 21:43 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Change typedef to normal definitions in GUI code 9bb381e https://git.io/JkQLv (2020-11-26T21:42:19Z) |
| 21:43 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Return star color calculation to what it previously was 868749b https://git.io/JkQLf (2020-11-26T21:17:11Z) |
| 21:53 |
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| 22:03 |
fattywompus |
Gotcha thanks for all the input. Sounds like 128 would do just fine then, but I'm thinking I'll use the 256 just to have some extra room |
| 22:13 |
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| 22:17 |
fattywompus |
How about this... if you had to chose, for a server, between an old dell workstation with 2 northwood era 3Ghz hyperthreading xeons, 533 Mhx FSB, and 4 GB of DDR ram, or a regular single CPU desktop with a 3 Ghz hyperthreading prescott P4 at 800Mhz FSB and 4 GB of DDR2... I'm thinking the faster FSB and DDR2 would outweigh having the 2nd CPU? A bit better single threaded speed over having more threads? |
| 22:27 |
sfan5 |
what's an FSB |
| 22:31 |
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| 22:39 |
celeron55 |
those machines will consume more electricity than what the cost of a cheap VPS is |
| 22:39 |
celeron55 |
while being marginally more powerful if at all |
| 22:39 |
celeron55 |
just go pick a core duo from a trash bin or something, still free but considerably faster and more efficient |
| 22:40 |
celeron55 |
less noise too |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
yeah. A VPS is cheaper and better when it comes to network, electricity, and other. Data centers benefit from economies of scale |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
A lot of the big companies also have carbon neutral computing which is goal - data centers running on renewable energy |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
there's also data centers in old shipping containers, underwater and in the arctic |
| 22:42 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not sure what % of the total these things are, but they are cool |
| 22:42 |
rubenwardy |
because they're in the arctic |
| 22:43 |
fattywompus |
FSB is front side bus speed... Yeah, I figure if any of my friends or family maintain an interest I'll get a VPS. It's just what I have laying around at the moment and figure I can get some practice administering it on my home network where if something borks up I can go in the other room and deal with the maching in person |
| 22:43 |
rubenwardy |
Finland is basically in the arctic :D |
| 22:43 |
celeron55 |
well that's going quite far as you can buy renewable electricity if you want. just don't waste it on 20 year old machines when 10 year old ones are much better and not more expensive |
| 22:44 |
rubenwardy |
the scale of computing is crazy these days |
| 22:44 |
celeron55 |
of course if you're just doing a test for a few months then whatever, have fun with the old things |
| 22:44 |
celeron55 |
but for something running for years it doesn't make sense to run a P4 |
| 22:45 |
rubenwardy |
Some Linux devs saved the world massive amounts of energy by changing shell cursors to be static and not flash. The flashing would result in excess network use |
| 22:45 |
celeron55 |
in a single year it'll consume like 50 to 100 euros worth of electricity |
| 22:45 |
celeron55 |
when sitting idle |
| 22:45 |
rubenwardy |
p4? |
| 22:45 |
celeron55 |
pentium 4 |
| 22:45 |
rubenwardy |
ah |
| 22:46 |
fattywompus |
I can agree it's kind of nonsensical long term |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> i mean hell you can get Haswell Refresh machines for under a couple hundred these days |
| 22:48 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> (if not Skylake if you're lucky( |
| 22:49 |
specing |
Aaah |
| 22:49 |
specing |
winter is coming |
| 22:49 |
* specing |
unboxes a P4 machine |
| 22:49 |
rubenwardy |
Winter is here |
| 22:49 |
MTDiscord |
<Jordach> 1C outside right now |
| 22:52 |
celeron55 |
anyone else have snow already? |
| 22:52 |
fattywompus |
If I were to get a haswell refresh machine that would be the newest computer in my house :P Currently my 3rd gen i5 laptop holds that title |
| 22:52 |
sfan5 |
don't think I've seen snow here in the last 24 months |
| 23:03 |
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Calinou |
me neither :( |
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