Time Nick Message 00:00 algun Hi. Remind me please, besides the correct placement of the basic_robot's spawner, what must I do to be able to listen to keyboard events? 00:01 algun keyboard.get() always returns nil for me it seems 00:01 algun should i pass it any arguments? 01:30 specing Is there a food-rebalancing script out there? Something that would munch all the register_node.on_use/item_eat() calls and assign weights to crafting/furnacing/etc steps such that all foods fall between 1 and 20 stamina? 02:58 rubenwardy not that I know of, sounds like a good modding task 12:31 ullnrr test 12:32 ullnrr what would be the cheapest option to set up a server? 12:34 ullnrr which server specs should i look for if i'm planning to have 10/15 people connected at the same time? 12:37 sfan5 cheapest is a computer at your home (assuming you have a suitable network) 14:31 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> It’ll cost you more than enough money in VPS 14:31 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> Better off spending a few hundred up front for a Ryzen box 14:32 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> Stress testing my server with thousands of active objects and barely made dtime sweat on a 3xxx Ryzen 14:33 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> From testing I use 1mbps per player at 30hz step time 14:34 tango_ how good is multicore usage for MT? 14:44 sfan5 not very 14:49 MTDiscord <12W​arr1024> The problem with self-hosting isn't necessarily cost, it's often internet access. People have crappy internet connections with terrible performance, or restrictive EULAs. People also may have lousy electrical service that makes it hard to maintain uptime, and they may not be around all hours of the day to babysit a machine. When you pay for a VPS, you're not really paying just for a computer, but also for people to manage some 14:49 MTDiscord of the very basics for you. 17:18 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> Electricity also costs money...and depending on where you live it can be a lot if you offer a 24/7 service 17:56 celeron55 fun fact: on the other hand, if you're heating with electricity, you might as well use a server to generate the heat instead of directly using a heater element. but in places where electric heating is used electricity isn't that expensive anyway 18:03 specing in that case one uses a heat pump 18:04 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> That’s what scaleway does in Belgium and France iirc 18:04 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> They had some experiments with Atoms 18:06 celeron55 specing: depends on the outside temperature, here it gets cold enough that a heat pump doesn't get much efficiency when most heating is required 18:06 specing depends on the heat pump too 18:06 specing mine is cheaper than gas down to about -10'C 18:07 celeron55 also, an air-to-air heat pump makes noise 18:07 specing indeed it does 18:07 celeron55 altough so makes a server 18:07 specing But it's not the only type of heat pump 18:07 specing ait-to-water is also popular as dropin for traditional natural gas boilers 18:08 celeron55 of course, altough others are really expensive if you don't already have heating ducts or pipes and radiators 18:08 specing though it's hideously expensive (jacked up prices I guess, subsidies did their work...) 18:08 specing indeed 18:08 specing air-air (traditional mini-split airconditioner) is the cheapest way to heat/cool 18:09 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> Regarding sound volume I can’t even hear my Ryzen machine at full whack running operations on a 250gb SQL database all night long 18:09 specing at least here 18:10 celeron55 in my house i have a rather capable wood fireplace, resistive heaters, other old fireplaces converterd into energy storing resistive heaters, an air-to-air heat pump and a resistively heated hot water reservoir 18:10 celeron55 resistive heaters are quite fine when they can be run on cheap night electricity 18:10 celeron55 converted* 18:10 specing nope 18:11 specing even the worst air-to-air heat pumps have 250% "energy efficiency" 18:11 specing the $500 ones you can get in random shops 18:11 celeron55 it gets down to -25°C here every winter, an air-to-air heat pump does basically nothing more than a resistive heater at those temperatures, some are even programmed to refuse to operate 18:11 specing mini-splits, that is, the window mount or portable ones are a complete joke 18:11 celeron55 or just break down 18:12 specing ah yes, at -25'C you want a water-water one 18:12 specing with a well down to groundwater 18:15 celeron55 that would cost more than 10 years worth of resistive+wood heating and still consumes some electricity on top of that 18:16 celeron55 and at that point it already needs considerable maintenance 18:17 celeron55 of course depending on luck 18:19 celeron55 potentially a litecoin mining rig would be the most cost effective heater. get some of the electicity cost back in virtual currency 8) 18:20 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> With the cost of a decent asic or GPU you might as well spend it elsewhere at current difficulties 18:20 specing celeron55: highly likely, yes 18:20 specing a water-water heat pump setup is like $30000 18:22 specing I wonder how easy it would be to convert an air-air mini-split into a water-air one 18:22 celeron55 in my experience, for money laundering, firewood works just as well as cryptocurrencies, if you need to do legally questionable activities 8) 18:22 specing submerge it's external radiator into a water tank and add a pump that pumps groundwater up into it 18:22 celeron55 of course it takes a truck to haul firewood around unlike bitcoins 18:23 specing and do the same with the internal radiator , submerge it to a tank + add a pump to make it go around radiators 18:23 celeron55 i guess it could work 18:23 specing replace $20000 of ripoff with $2000 of material + some work 18:24 celeron55 you don't think there's a reason for the $20k price tag? 18:24 specing there is: subsidies 18:24 specing they jacked up the price because they can 18:25 celeron55 oh yeah, you can get subsidies for some things around here too, but i think it's only for converting away from an oil boiler or something 18:25 celeron55 they consider any electric heating to be fine 18:27 celeron55 of course if you get very political you could state that nobody has the right to live in a cold place 18:27 celeron55 because they'll have to use so much energy 18:29 celeron55 anyway 18:29 celeron55 if i had in-floor heating with water pipes i could experiment with all that 18:30 celeron55 but my floor is from 1930 with some added insulation in the 80s. the nice thing about that is that it'll last forever with no maintenance 18:31 celeron55 there's beauty in things where nothing can go wrong 18:32 celeron55 add water pipes and in 30 years you'll have nightmares every night of them bursting 18:32 celeron55 if not earlier 18:33 specing you can add plastic ones, those should last much longer 18:33 specing or use some other fluid that water 18:33 celeron55 probably illegal to use anything else than water due to environmental concerns 18:36 celeron55 one thing i don't understand 18:37 celeron55 why are air-to-air heat pumps always installed in absolutely idiotic places where you never want to run them becase you get a flu from them blowing right at you where you sit every day 18:39 specing Illegal? I don't think so 18:39 specing celeron55: well, you are not supposed to be "blowing" them 18:40 specing but actually, I have it directly above where my home "office" is, and it's very enjoyable 18:40 specing People get sick because of temperature differences, probably 18:41 specing I think there's a rule of "no more than 5'C", so don't cool to more than outside-5'C, or don't go outside/spend some time in a transition area 18:41 celeron55 if you have a tendency for dry eyes or such any airflow is unbearable 18:42 celeron55 both when heating and cooling 18:43 celeron55 and the heated air often isn't hot enough for it to even feel warm at all, when heating 18:43 celeron55 and if it was, efficiency would go down 18:43 specing I have it set to 23.5'C and it feels warm 19:42 MinetestBot 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03minetest/minetest: Avoid marking map blocks dirty upon deserialization. 13f1349be https://git.io/JkHAK (152020-11-26T19:41:55Z) 20:29 fattywompus How much space could a minetest server conceivably take up with say one fully explored game world just as a reference? 20:29 Krock you'd need an entire storage room for that 20:29 Krock nah, just a few terabytes 20:37 MinetestBot 02[git] 04srinivas32 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Added ppc64le architecture to travis-ci (#81) 13e88fcf0 https://git.io/JkQvS (152020-11-26T20:36:44Z) 20:40 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> My map is restricted to 15000 in all directions and is largely explored by now...the size is 76 GB 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix style 138689e00 https://git.io/JkQJL (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Provide fallback star color for GLES 2 with MT shaders disabled 13c158e20 https://git.io/JkQJt (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Sky: support GLES2 13cdcf7dc https://git.io/JkQJq (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Allow missing shaders 13be59668 https://git.io/JkQJm (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Replace TriangleFan as poorly supported 13d7cf40a https://git.io/JkQJY (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Reuse seed when updating stars 13560627e https://git.io/JkQJO (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Store stars in a single static mesh buffer 133077afc https://git.io/JkQJ3 (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Don't evaluate things many times 1389cc5bf https://git.io/JkQJG (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:49 MinetestBot 02[git] 04numberZero -> 03minetest/minetest: Batch cloud drawing 13095f826 https://git.io/JkQJZ (152020-11-26T20:49:10Z) 20:59 fattywompus Wow that pretty sizeable. I have a loose 256 GB SSD and was torn between upgrading the 128GB SSD in my old backup gaming rig then using the freed up 128 GB SSD in an old P4 machine to use as a server. I guess the 256 would be a safer bet for the server 21:06 Krock fattywompus: you can always limit the map to not generate further than, say, 4000m into each direction 21:06 Krock that also limits it quite a lot 21:06 MTDiscord <11I​hrFussel> Keep in mind that it entirely depends on multiple factors: 1. Whether or not you set a mapgen limit 2. What type of gameplay your server has (teleportation mostly generates more random map parts versus just exploring) 3. How many players you have 4. How active those are...the world I use is over 4 years old now and it has 500,000+ accounts created...after several years 70-100 GB is not a lot I'd say 21:28 hisforever Hi I'm having trouble understanding the billboard mod? 21:28 specing You could save a lot of space by regularly pruning old blocks 21:28 specing blocks that have only natural nodes + torches/super glow glass 21:31 hisforever I just made a theather and need a sign on it? hear is my lua file https://pastebin.com/tHDgcSSN 21:35 hisforever the error is at line 111 21:43 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Change typedef to normal definitions in GUI code 139bb381e https://git.io/JkQLv (152020-11-26T21:42:19Z) 21:43 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetest: Return star color calculation to what it previously was 13868749b https://git.io/JkQLf (152020-11-26T21:17:11Z) 22:03 fattywompus Gotcha thanks for all the input. Sounds like 128 would do just fine then, but I'm thinking I'll use the 256 just to have some extra room 22:17 fattywompus How about this... if you had to chose, for a server, between an old dell workstation with 2 northwood era 3Ghz hyperthreading xeons, 533 Mhx FSB, and 4 GB of DDR ram, or a regular single CPU desktop with a 3 Ghz hyperthreading prescott P4 at 800Mhz FSB and 4 GB of DDR2... I'm thinking the faster FSB and DDR2 would outweigh having the 2nd CPU? A bit better single threaded speed over having more threads? 22:27 sfan5 what's an FSB 22:39 celeron55 those machines will consume more electricity than what the cost of a cheap VPS is 22:39 celeron55 while being marginally more powerful if at all 22:39 celeron55 just go pick a core duo from a trash bin or something, still free but considerably faster and more efficient 22:40 celeron55 less noise too 22:40 rubenwardy yeah. A VPS is cheaper and better when it comes to network, electricity, and other. Data centers benefit from economies of scale 22:41 rubenwardy A lot of the big companies also have carbon neutral computing which is goal - data centers running on renewable energy 22:41 rubenwardy there's also data centers in old shipping containers, underwater and in the arctic 22:42 rubenwardy I'm not sure what % of the total these things are, but they are cool 22:42 rubenwardy because they're in the arctic 22:43 fattywompus FSB is front side bus speed... Yeah, I figure if any of my friends or family maintain an interest I'll get a VPS. It's just what I have laying around at the moment and figure I can get some practice administering it on my home network where if something borks up I can go in the other room and deal with the maching in person 22:43 rubenwardy Finland is basically in the arctic :D 22:43 celeron55 well that's going quite far as you can buy renewable electricity if you want. just don't waste it on 20 year old machines when 10 year old ones are much better and not more expensive 22:44 rubenwardy the scale of computing is crazy these days 22:44 celeron55 of course if you're just doing a test for a few months then whatever, have fun with the old things 22:44 celeron55 but for something running for years it doesn't make sense to run a P4 22:45 rubenwardy Some Linux devs saved the world massive amounts of energy by changing shell cursors to be static and not flash. The flashing would result in excess network use 22:45 celeron55 in a single year it'll consume like 50 to 100 euros worth of electricity 22:45 celeron55 when sitting idle 22:45 rubenwardy p4? 22:45 celeron55 pentium 4 22:45 rubenwardy ah 22:46 fattywompus I can agree it's kind of nonsensical long term 22:48 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> i mean hell you can get Haswell Refresh machines for under a couple hundred these days 22:48 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> (if not Skylake if you're lucky( 22:49 specing Aaah 22:49 specing winter is coming 22:49 * specing unboxes a P4 machine 22:49 rubenwardy Winter is here 22:49 MTDiscord <10J​ordach> 1C outside right now 22:52 celeron55 anyone else have snow already? 22:52 fattywompus If I were to get a haswell refresh machine that would be the newest computer in my house :P Currently my 3rd gen i5 laptop holds that title 22:52 sfan5 don't think I've seen snow here in the last 24 months 23:17 Calinou me neither :(