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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-10-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:53 tango_ I dislike adding pngs to my repo, are there other formats supported, such as xpm2?
01:01 tango_ oh wow xpm2 is supported apparently
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01:49 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> What's wrong with PNGs?
01:54 MTDiscord <L​one_Wolf> <s>JPEG ftw</s>
01:58 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> PNGs cannot contain malware from what I read once...not sure if this also applies to other image formats but that is a huge plus
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02:17 SteveT Hi Everyone.  Is this the correct channel to ask about the configuration of a dedicated minetest-server install on Ubuntu?
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02:57 MTDiscord <L​one_Wolf> If it isn't c55 will have to ban a bunch of his community. Fire away
03:03 SteveT I've installed Minetest 5.3.0 on Ubuntu 20.04 from the minetestdev ppa.  I have the server running fine, and know the config files are best put in /etc/minetest, but where do I put games, worlds and mods?
03:03 SteveT I'm running the server only... ie, minetest-server
03:06 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> /etc requires root access (by default) do NOT run MT as root  Put your config in your MT folder and mods in .minetest/mods ... games in .minetest/games
03:07 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> Worlds in .minetest/worlds
03:08 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> If you want to have mods-per-world or you don't want to have to enable each mod sepatetly put your mods in .minetest/worlds/yourworld/worldmods
03:09 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> If you have no world yet go into your home directory and put 'minetest --world .minetest/worlds/worldname' as command (IIRC)
03:09 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> separately*
03:19 SteveT Thanks for that..... to confirm, the aabsolute path for the morlds, mods and games folders should be /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest?
03:21 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> No, just leave it inside your home folder
03:22 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> Create an extra user for MT if you can't do that
03:34 MTDiscord <s​rinivas> normally, on ubuntu atleast, i find that it adds in a systemd service, and is run by the user games
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06:31 tango_ benrob0329: the problem with PNG is that it's a binary format, not really versionable
06:32 tango_ Benrob0329[m]: a XPM2 is textual, easy to visualize even on console, and even slightly more compact despite the lack of compression
06:33 tango_ the only thing missing in XPM2 is an RGBA specification, so a pixel is either fully transparent (color 'none') or fully opaque (any color, with colors in 8-bit-per-channel RGB)
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07:16 Quiark lol I want to see people resolving conflicts in text editor in XPM2
07:17 tango_ Quiark: oh that'd be fun, but stil easier than with any other format!
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07:18 Quiark of course it'd be silly, normal people would use an image editor
07:18 tango_ true
07:18 tango_ and that might actually be the biggest issue, because who knows how the color table gets remapped to symbols every time you save
07:19 tango_ so someone editing in an image editor would probably mash up the file completely even if it only changes one pixel
07:20 tango_ also to my frustration I noticed vim doesn't “syntax highlight” xpm2 files correctly 8-/
07:20 tango_ it does with the other XPM formats apparently
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09:42 tango_ Quiark: another advantage of XPM2 is that you can generate them programmatically, which is quite useful when you have groups of pictures that are just palette juggling of the same image
09:43 tango_ thing e.g. all ingots or wood variants
09:44 Quiark imagemagick
09:50 tango_ Quiark: sure, but with textual formats you don't even need external tools
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09:58 Calinou XPM is a nice novelty format but in 2020, it's not really relevant anymore
09:58 Calinou optimized PNGs are really small when used for pixel art, making binaries a non-issue at this point for Git history size
09:58 Calinou praise https://github.com/shssoichiro/oxipng :)
09:58 MTDiscord <w​war> Yup ^^
09:59 Calinou (--strip --zopfli will give you the best sizes)
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10:37 tango_ Calinou: IME XPM2 is still smaller than optimized PNG
10:37 tango_ at least for the 16x16 icons I'm writing
10:38 tango_ but again, for me the issue isn't even so much size as it is the fact that they are more easily diffable
10:38 tango_ and scriptable
10:38 tango_ heck  if the ingots were in XPM I would already be done with the textures for the other rods
10:38 Calinou the scripting part is a good point, I guess it works if you don't have access to a library to output images
10:38 Calinou but again, most languages have such a library :P
10:38 tango_ instead I have to open each PNG, check the color, and copy it over
10:39 tango_ yes, I could script that too by using imagemagick to query the color of a specific pixel, but I have to try and rememeber the incantation
10:39 tango_ with text format it's trivial
10:42 tango_ in fact, with this approach you wouldn't even need to store the textures in the mod, you could generate them on-the-fly using lua
10:42 tango_ template + color
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10:50 jjohngreensr[m] Help, Minetest doesnt actually boot for me. I'm on Android 10, using the F-Droid version, and the loading bar just goes straight from left to right, ending with something in shaders/COLEGO2TextureBlend or something like that
10:51 jjohngreensr[m] And then it goes to black for a split second before starting the loading again
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10:53 Follpvosten[m] The F-Droid version hasn't yet been updated for Android 10
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10:54 Follpvosten[m] You need 5.3.0, I got it via Aurora Store
10:56 sfan5 you can also download the apk
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11:07 tango_ jjohngreensr[m]: yep I had to use the play store version because of that
11:08 tango_ not too happy, but at least it boots
11:08 tango_ does anybody know why the f-droid version isn't being updatd, btw?
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11:23 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> How can PNG be binary but safe from 'hidden malware'? At least that is what I read
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11:27 MTDiscord <s​rinivas> hmm, does it get executed?
11:30 tango_ safety doesn't depend on binary vs textual, it depends on clarity of specification
11:31 tango_ the only potential issue with PNG would be some kind of undocumented packet that contains executable code and a decoder that understands and executes those packets
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12:35 zughy[m] hey VanessaE could you please have a look at the move request section? It's kind of flooded https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=10418
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13:24 MTDiscord <J​ordach> PNG has been out for nearly 24 years supported in windows from early as 98 without issue or malware
13:25 MTDiscord <J​ordach> GIF has caused more problems for Windows users because they could actually overflow the IE based renderer and get kernel access
13:29 niwla23[m] I think my problem with local timeouts is about the interface.
13:30 niwla23[m] Can I somehow see on what interface mt binds?
13:32 sfan5 it doesn't bind to an interface, it binds to the wildcard IP 0.0.0.0
13:32 niwla23[m] hm , but 0.0.0.0 is public on the whole network or not?
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13:33 niwla23[m] so when i just click start game it makes a server for the whole LAN?
13:33 sfan5 only a single connection is allowed in singleplayer mode
13:34 niwla23[m] but why does it not bind to localhost?
13:34 niwla23[m] and can i check what device will be used for 0.0.0.0?
13:34 niwla23[m] like 127.0.0.1 is always lo1
13:34 sfan5 0.0.0.0 is *every* interface
13:34 niwla23[m] oh
13:36 niwla23[m] okay it seems to be some problem with the system
13:36 * niwla23[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FeWNVtIrTqYtBiZkUzPQebRO/message.txt >
13:36 niwla23[m] but when i nmap localhost it does not show 8888 as open
13:38 * niwla23[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XGIOckRfTisnjNfBsatYDBdk/message.txt >
13:39 niwla23[m] but remote servers are working
13:39 sfan5 nmap scans tcp, not udp
13:40 sfan5 even if you switch it to udp I don't know if it can detect minetest
13:40 niwla23[m] uh, ok that explains the nmap problem
13:40 niwla23[m] but for some reason i still get a timeout
13:49 tango_ jordach: to be fair, PNG has had issues with IE too because of the lack of support of proper transparency
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14:21 Vagabond[m] niwla23: have you tried running Minetest as root?
14:21 niwla23[m] yes
14:24 Vagabond[m] I also noticed you're running `./minetest`, so you're running the binary directly. Do you have a `minetest` application installed? If so, it should be on your PATH somewhere. Could you try running just `minetest` from a terminal?
14:24 niwla23[m] i tested all that stuff already
14:24 Vagabond[m] Ah, ok
14:26 niwla23[m] Foudn something! I can connect to a dedicated local server when using the LAN Ip (192.168.....), but not using 127.0.0.1 or localhost
14:27 sfan5 are you sure it's not a firewall or sandbox?
14:29 niwla23[m] i think it is some sort of fucked network settings 😂
14:35 Vagabond[m] And to verify, and pardon my laziness for reading back through the history: you're running the server and the client on the same machine?
14:35 niwla23[m] yes
14:35 Vagabond[m] * And to verify, and pardon my laziness for not reading back through the history: you're running the server and the client on the same machine?
14:38 Vagabond[m] If you're playing in single player, the client should spin up everything without you needing the start a server, right?
14:39 niwla23[m] yes but logically it has to start a server
14:39 niwla23[m] but connecting to that one times out
14:40 Vagabond[m] (again, pardon me not reading back; sorry if you're explaining this again) So if you start the client by itself, without the server running, it brings up the initial menu/UI, then you try to connect to a new single player game, and it crashes and reports the timeout?
14:41 niwla23[m] yes
14:41 Vagabond[m] then if you start a dedicated server, and point the client to your local IP address (but not `localhost` or `0.0.0.0`), you can connect and play as expected?
14:42 Vagabond[m] * then if you start a dedicated server on your machine, and point the client to your local IP address (but not `localhost` or `0.0.0.0`), you can connect and play as expected?
14:42 niwla23[m] yes
14:42 niwla23[m] and 127.0.0.1 also times out
14:48 Vagabond[m] Yeah, that sounds like something wrong with the loopback interface
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15:07 sfan5 !op
15:07 Topic for #minetest is now The official Minetest channel | Latest version: 5.3.0 (2020-07-09) | General, player and modder discussion is on-topic. If in doubt, post here | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: https://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest
15:07 sfan5 to whoever asked last time: irc.minetest.net now has HTTPS
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17:40 clavi wasn't me but nice
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18:17 clavi sfan5: would be cool if it 301 redirected to https too
18:17 Calinou and look into enabling HSTS, ideally
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19:07 pere hi.  can minetest show its 3d screen in a VR/AR type setup, where the left half of the screen go to one eye, and the right half go to the other?
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19:13 pere Found <URL: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=11921 > and a 3d option sidebyside in the menu, and it kind of renders side by side, but the world loading did not work right and I could not move. :(
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22:33 tango_ gah, apparently xpm2 are NOT supported as textures, it was a fluke in my testing 8-/
22:36 tango_ oh this is so stupid, they support ppm 8-/
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