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IRC log for #minetest, 2020-10-21

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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04:35 sofar so why does get_mapgen_object("heatmap") no longer return anything .... bizarre
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10:58 MTDiscord <s​rinivas> is SSPL considered an open source license?
10:58 MTDiscord <s​rinivas> https://webassets.mongodb.com/_com_assets/legal/SSPL-compared-to-AGPL.pdf
11:08 tango_ hm I was able to build beds without red wool, is the wiki information outdated?
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11:21 specing one of the rules of development is that documentation is always outdated
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12:55 Ingar on of the rules of development is that they don't pay me enough to write decent documentation
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13:25 zughy[m] the actual rule of development is rtfm, read the fucking manual. So yes, there should be an up to date one
13:27 sfan5 the closest to a manual minetest_game has is unfortuantely the wiki
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13:42 sfan5 !op
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13:45 cimbakahn Hello!  Is anyone around?
13:45 heavygale nope, only you
13:45 cimbakahn Can anyone tell from these 6 screenshots if this is a singleplayer world or a public server?  https://imgur.com/a/bygc3n6
13:45 cimbakahn HA!HA!
13:46 heavygale i dontseeany clues in those images
13:46 heavygale would guess it's single player
13:47 cimbakahn You might find this funny, but i have lost an engineering room.
13:48 cimbakahn I have only played singleplayer, and public servers from the minetest server list, so it has to be 1 of the 2.
13:49 cimbakahn Atleast the pictures give the seed and the coordinates, so maybe i can recreate the world.  I would just have to setup the machines all over again.
13:53 cimbakahn I will try to recreate it.  Thanks for trying to help!
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14:12 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> Join your most recent servers and check their map seed in F5?
14:13 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> The RTT tells me that this is singleplayer
14:13 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> Or local server
14:15 sfan5 (they quit irc already)
14:16 MTDiscord <I​hrFussel> I also just saw that they already got their answer in dev
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14:58 ryzokuken hi all!
14:58 ryzokuken I'm trying to run a minetest server
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14:59 ryzokuken I installed a new game in /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/games and set the default_game in minetest.conf
14:59 ryzokuken buuuuut still it only runs the default minetest game
15:00 ryzokuken `ACTION[Main]: Server for gameid="minetest" listening on 0.0.0.0:30000.`
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15:00 sfan5 create a new world
15:01 sfan5 or rather since the location is fixed, delete (or move) the old one
15:01 ryzokuken sfan5: cool
15:01 ryzokuken lemme try that thanks
15:03 ryzokuken sfan5: worked! perfect, thanks.
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15:07 specing I've tried to change my chat log level, but CSM print() still goes there :/
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15:21 MTDiscord <L​one_Wolf> print() printing to chat is heaven for me
15:23 rubenwardy Any recommendations for matrix home servers?
15:23 testuser testing
15:23 rubenwardy mine
15:23 testuser hmm, looking at this web-irc client
15:24 MTDiscord <L​one_Wolf> kiwi-irc is my goto web client
15:25 Fixer i had a problem with it not long ago
15:25 Fixer it said i'm disconnected, so i pressed reconnect... and it kinda stalled
15:25 Fixer meanwhile i've updated quassel
15:25 rubenwardy Quassel is nice, I use it currently
15:26 Fixer tho it has no file transfers (don't really need it atm)
15:27 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> idk about you guys, but i really like forcing electrons to do math
15:32 rubenwardy I have rwdy.uk for file transfer
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16:11 tango_ BTW I have a question about singleplayer vs server
16:11 tango_ let's say that I've been playing singleplayer, but now I would like other players to join in. can I do that on the same world?
16:12 rubenwardy yes
16:12 rubenwardy the singleplayer name is "singleplayer"
16:12 rubenwardy you'll have to make a new account for yourself
16:12 rubenwardy and you'll lose access to any locked chests, unless you have protection_bypass the priv
16:13 tango_ rubenwardy: is that what 'Host server' does?
16:13 rschulman What is the "right" way to mod in an object (probably an entity, if I'm understanding correctly) that would connect to any of the same entities in adjacent locations and rotate around an axis at a setable speed?
16:13 rubenwardy yes
16:14 tango_ rubenwardy: thanks.
16:22 tango_ aside from burning, is there a difference between steel and wooden ladders?
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16:30 MTDiscord <β​ασιλεύς Αλέξιος VI Αποκιος> Mainly aesthetics I think, though it is only breakable with a decent pickaxe so could prevent noobs from destroying it with their bare hands
16:33 rubenwardy also flamability
16:36 specing Do you people have a defined way that serious server bugs can be addressed in?
16:36 specing I found a bug in one of the widely used mods that allows me to take items off of other player's inventories
16:42 rubenwardy security policy for the engine: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/security/policy
16:42 rubenwardy if it's a bug in the mod, then try contacting the author
17:00 testuser yeah, this webclient is quite cute
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17:46 specing rubenwardy: I have sent you an email.
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17:58 deltasquared just investigating an odd crash in the default mod, under what circumstances could player:get_player_information() return *nil* inside an on_joinplayer() callback? it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
17:59 deltasquared the relevant stack trace in case anyone wanted to see, it's rather short - https://a.uguu.se/5NYmBEGqarcO_bls_default_crash.txt
18:01 deltasquared I'm unsure yet if I've actually come across a legitimate engine bug. haven't been able to reproduce it yet either.
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18:04 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9352#event-3294258557
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18:08 deltasquared sfan5: ah, cool. might be a hard press to get the server owner to run a dev build alas heh. thanks for the pointer.
18:08 sfan5 you don't specifically need a dev build, just a patch to builtin
18:09 sfan5 (though that depends on what exactly you define as "dev build")
18:10 deltasquared I think a patch to builtin could be arranged. what would have to be changed?
18:13 sfan5 we don't seem to be on the same page
18:14 sfan5 the bug has been fixed in 5.3.0 already
18:14 deltasquared well you're the one who said... never mind.
18:14 deltasquared so I just need to prod them to update then
18:14 sfan5 if you still get the same issue you can apply the patch I posted there to builtin to debug it further
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18:15 deltasquared sfan5: you appear to be contradicting yourself. how can it be fixed and still possibly require a patch
18:16 sfan5 mods can provoke this crash without the engine being at fault
18:18 sfan5 and the bug where the engine was at fault has been fixed
18:18 deltasquared sfan5: I don't think a mod's causing this. the player in question sometimes happens to crash very quickly after logging in. it's not for every player.
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18:20 sfan5 what am I supposed to say here
18:21 sfan5 that information has no use unless reproduced on 5.3.0
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18:27 deltasquared sfan5: still trying to pin down the exact version anyhow, the motd has been screwed with. I'll ping back later if it's up to date.
18:28 deltasquared thanks for the info in any case.
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18:28 specing player in question = me
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18:37 big_caballito[m] https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=382636
18:37 big_caballito[m] why aren't the devs responding to this (other than paramat)
18:38 MTDiscord <G​enshin> sad but true
18:39 rubenwardy I don't find it productive to reply to that
18:39 rubenwardy I've replied to the other forum topics
18:39 MTDiscord <J​ordach> that's because you don't give two shits about actually developing Minetest other than the fact it gives you clout
18:40 MTDiscord <G​enshin> many people are mad, yet nobody wants to do anything about it
18:41 MTDiscord <G​enshin> feelsbadman
18:41 sfan5 Productive discussion does not seem possible when one side is writing angry posts accusing other people of ulterior motives
18:41 rubenwardy that's pretty clearly rubbish
18:41 sfan5 other than that there are some good points in the post
18:41 MTDiscord <J​ordach> https://tenor.com/view/hurry-up-get-on-with-it-impatient-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-gif-11408952
18:42 MTDiscord <G​enshin> > other than that there are some good points in the post Then why not talk about these points?
18:42 MTDiscord <G​enshin> why hide behind a wall and let it be?
18:42 rubenwardy I can reply to the points whilst ignoring the angriness I guess
18:42 sfan5 why are you accusing me of hiding? is this what a good faith argument looks like?
18:42 sfan5 like what the fuck
18:42 sfan5 i get it
18:42 sfan5 minetest dev sucks
18:42 sfan5 but if you keep throwign shit at devs at every opportunity you will get nowhere
18:43 sfan5 throwing*
18:43 MTDiscord <J​ordach> if it didn't take weeks to months to get shit merged it'd be less sliding down a waterslide of shag carpet and sharp knives
18:43 MTDiscord <G​enshin> That's what i kept telling people on that forum topic
18:43 MTDiscord <G​enshin> stop throwing shit at core devs
18:43 sfan5 maybe that seems like an attractive strategy if it you get nowhere with all other strategies
18:43 sfan5 @genshin yet you are doing it yourself
18:43 MTDiscord <G​enshin> how?
18:43 sfan5 <sfan5> why are you accusing me of hiding? is this what a good faith argument looks like?
18:43 sfan5 answer these two questions please
18:44 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Because you aren't participating in that topic as I hoped for you guys to be
18:44 sfan5 now the second one
18:45 sfan5 do you think it's a good faith argument to accuse the other party of hiding because you haven't seen the participating?
18:45 MTDiscord <G​enshin> of course not
18:45 sfan5 THEN WHY DO IT
18:45 Krock 🔥
18:45 sfan5 you poision the whole discourse like this
18:45 sfan5 arguments are not possible like this
18:45 MTDiscord <J​ordach> look out of all the core devs who actually you know try and get merges done are basically you and Krock at this point
18:45 MTDiscord <G​enshin> ^
18:45 MTDiscord <J​ordach> paramat nitpicks so much i'm turning bald by the minute
18:46 sfan5 i hate paramat's opinions too
18:46 sfan5 but that's not relevant
18:46 sfan5 and should not prevent you from having reasonable discourse with everyone else
18:46 MTDiscord <J​ordach> well it is because he veto's practically everything
18:46 Krock though I won't be active in the next few weeks. too busy
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18:47 MTDiscord <J​ordach> the irony is paramat's opinion on the original sneak code caused another big issue
18:47 MTDiscord <J​ordach> we've been up this tree before
18:47 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Forgive me for calling out in such a way. im just too fustrated with the situation.
18:47 sfan5 old_move was his idea?
18:48 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i can't remember what it was
18:48 MTDiscord <J​ordach> but i do remember that behaviour of his is what set it off to begin with
18:48 Krock no, that idea is based on player feedback
18:48 luk3yx How about not fighting?
18:48 MTDiscord <J​ordach> like that'll ever happebn
18:48 MTDiscord <G​enshin> I wish
18:49 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Im gonna go and vent. I do not wish to continue to lash out on anyone.
18:49 MTDiscord <G​enshin> sorry sfan5
18:49 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> he vented, vote him out
18:50 MTDiscord <G​enshin> this isn't among us
18:50 sfan5 you can idk
18:50 big_caballito[m] ?
18:50 sfan5 write down your frustrations in a forum post
18:50 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i mean what needs to really happen is two "releases" a year
18:50 MTDiscord <G​enshin> already did
18:50 sfan5 then it can be taken as a whole and people will not feel the need to take it personally
18:50 MTDiscord <J​ordach> a bug fix release, and a experimental -master like build that sometimes recieves emergency bug fixes
18:51 MTDiscord <J​ordach> 6 months of feature dev, 6 months of bug fixes only
18:52 sfan5 sounds very inefficient
18:52 MTDiscord <J​ordach> how many PRs are just /sitting there/
18:52 MTDiscord <J​ordach> who wants to support a 12 month old PR due to inefficient reviewing=
18:52 SwissalpS me
18:53 SwissalpS if it is worth it. it may not be worth it and that is why it is sitting around.
18:54 MTDiscord <J​ordach> and in those 12 months it needs at least 2-4 rebases and entire replacement of old functions because what it was targeting is now either not there, or is radically different
18:54 MTDiscord <J​ordach> making more work for the PR author
18:54 MTDiscord <J​ordach> (and or adoptee)
18:55 sfan5 so maybe we need a way for devs to say "yes we want a PR for this and we want it now, so it will be reviewed in time"
18:56 sfan5 then all other PRs would just be .. uhh rejected? hm
18:56 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i'm more thinking two lists
18:56 MTDiscord <J​ordach> bugfixes get higher priority than features
18:56 MTDiscord <J​ordach> while the feature list is what the mod makers sort of need
18:57 sfan5 @genshin correction for your forum post: multicraft is not supported by coredevs, contributors automatically show up there since it has the same commits as minetest
18:57 sfan5 it'd be more accurate to say that multicraft is merging changes from MT but I don't know why that'd even make a difference
18:58 MTDiscord <G​enshin> sfan5, :ok_hand:
18:58 MTDiscord <J​ordach> honestly core devs should look into review automation
18:59 rubenwardy I'm a massive proponent for automational
18:59 sfan5 I don't know about others but my code reviews focus on logical mistakes in the code, code efficiency, API design and seeing if backwards compat works
18:59 MTDiscord <G​enshin> just edited that, thank you for clarifying
18:59 sfan5 you could perhaps move one of those to an automated tool
18:59 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i'd drop backwards compatibility to literally one or two minor patches
19:00 MTDiscord <J​ordach> old MT versions keep getting supported for way too long
19:00 MTDiscord <J​ordach> F-Droid is hilariously outdated
19:02 sfan5 you've mentioned this before and I'm wondering
19:02 sfan5 is this suggestion to fix compatibility concerns from dragging down development?
19:02 MTDiscord <J​ordach> why should 5-9 year old mods be expected to work
19:02 rubenwardy F-Droid is outdated due to binary dependencies, issue: #10529
19:02 ShadowBot rubenwardy: Error: That URL appears to have no HTML title within the first 4KB.
19:02 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> MT uses Semver-ish, but release minor patches more often and a big release once a year maybe?
19:02 MTDiscord <J​ordach> especially ones written before formspecs
19:03 sfan5 because if it was about the "can I rely on this feature being available?" from a mod/game dev perspective you can tell people to enable strict protocol checking
19:03 MTDiscord <J​ordach> the problem with that it's not well /known/ about
19:03 rubenwardy We have people saying we should break compat all the time, and people who complain whenever we break undocumented compat when necessary
19:03 sfan5 ok wait
19:04 sfan5 is this about network compatibility? mod compatibility? both?
19:04 MTDiscord <J​ordach> if it's not documented break it
19:04 sfan5 we do that
19:04 sfan5 and then people complain
19:04 MTDiscord <J​ordach> and? their fault for ignoring "legal" API usage
19:04 MTDiscord <G​enshin> ^
19:04 MTDiscord <J​ordach> in that it's going to work between minor versions
19:04 MTDiscord <J​ordach> it's like using LEGO wrong
19:04 MTDiscord <G​enshin> Thing is, it's impossible to please everybody, we can only do so much
19:05 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> Mod and network compatibility should be maintained between minor versions, but releasing major (breaking) changes more often might not be a bad thing.
19:05 MTDiscord <J​ordach> ^
19:05 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> IMO
19:05 MTDiscord <G​enshin> just add what makes sense, and reject what doesn't make sense
19:06 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> If only it were ever that simple...
19:06 Krock I thought that's the main idea of using semver now
19:06 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i mean you can sort the dross by main usage
19:06 MTDiscord <G​enshin> > If only it were ever that simple... This is our current burden
19:06 MTDiscord <J​ordach> if it's /really really/ specific for /one/ use case you can probably drop it
19:07 MTDiscord <J​ordach> but if it has wider usage because it's so generic but useful, it's probably important
19:07 sfan5 when I think of compatibility I consider "if someone install Minetest on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, should they be able to connect to up-to-date servers?"
19:07 sfan5 and I think for most people that answer should be yes, even if that means not all features work
19:07 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i mean releasing every six months to mirror the non LTS builds wouldn't be too worrysome
19:07 MTDiscord <J​ordach> they'd at least be included for the average user
19:08 MTDiscord <J​ordach> or even four minor releases
19:08 MTDiscord <J​ordach> with the new year bringing in a major version bump
19:08 MTDiscord <J​ordach> (at least before the new LTS)
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19:09 specing sfan5: how about: the current main menu is turned into a launcher, launcher downloads required mt client version from buildbot?
19:09 MTDiscord <J​ordach> we already know the answer to that: no
19:09 MTDiscord <J​ordach> been discussed too many times
19:09 MTDiscord <G​enshin> if only it was simple
19:09 specing sfan5: backwards compatibility is a non-issue e.g. in SpringRTS, where the lobby client downloads the required engine and other content
19:10 specing sfan5: and takes a large burden off of engine development
19:10 sfan5 depends
19:11 sfan5 you'd still want old content to work in new versions
19:11 sfan5 but beside that, sure a launcher would work
19:11 MTDiscord <G​enshin> new features are being implemented, why concerned about backwards compat when you're innsisting players to switch to the latest builds?
19:11 MTDiscord <J​ordach> already insisting players update *
19:11 Krock then add a launcher to update the launcher
19:11 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> If mods aren't maintained, they shouldn't hold house cleaning back (for major releases)
19:12 MTDiscord <J​ordach> ^
19:12 MTDiscord <J​ordach> mods are abandoned on the forums aplenty
19:12 MTDiscord <J​ordach> minetest-mods organisation exists to avoid that anyway
19:12 MTDiscord <J​ordach> why should it be a problem if a shitty outdated abandoned mod stops everything
19:12 MTDiscord <G​enshin> meanwhile features are being implemented or change, it's up to themodder to update their mods
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19:13 sfan5 you all agree on that but I wonder if everyone else does
19:13 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> Community poll?
19:13 MTDiscord <G​enshin> ^
19:13 tango_ wow, quitting minetest for android is nontrivial
19:14 MTDiscord <J​ordach> and spaghetti mods like technic are the reason for this whole shitstorm
19:14 tango_ it goes fullscreen, so the android bar is nearly impossible to access
19:14 sfan5 what lol?
19:14 sfan5 I've never heard of a compat issue with technic
19:14 MTDiscord <G​enshin> same
19:14 sfan5 @B​enrob0329 likely to inaccurate
19:14 sfan5 too*
19:14 MTDiscord <J​ordach> iirc it used to be a piece of shit in the past like 7 years ago
19:14 MTDiscord <G​enshin> it's bloated code, but compat. nah
19:14 MTDiscord <J​ordach> i haven't touched it in 7 years
19:15 sfan5 tango_: I believe you can touch/swipe the edge of the screen to reveal the bar
19:15 tango_ sfan5: in theory, yes
19:15 rubenwardy Most of the people in this conversation are modders, and so it makes sense to have this view. Users and server owners tend to have the opposite view
19:15 rubenwardy there's a compromise
19:15 MTDiscord <G​enshin> mobile has control input issues when placing nodes
19:15 SwissalpS +1 rubenwardy
19:15 MTDiscord <J​ordach> unfortunately the line between modder and server owner is too blurry to identify
19:15 MTDiscord <J​ordach> when does a well made mod transcend it's mod status and become a game
19:16 tango_ sfan5: in practice it's QUITE hard to achieve
19:16 MTDiscord <G​enshin> a server owner can be a modder aswell if they have the knowledge
19:16 tango_ having an in-game “menu button” to bring the user to the menu that appears when the back button is pressed would be nice
19:16 MTDiscord <J​ordach> the easiest way of quitting Minetest on android is to force itself to crash
19:16 MTDiscord <J​ordach> unironically
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19:17 MTDiscord <G​enshin> i think mobile shouldn't be abandoned. its always nice to increase player base
19:17 MTDiscord <G​enshin> server owners will agree to this
19:18 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> @/g/ Quit the program, not the development
19:18 zughy[m] It depends on the server: I dare anyone to play in mine and actually win a game against someone playing via PC
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19:18 specing someone just nuke technic
19:19 specing it's hideous
19:19 specing just look at those textures and formspecs
19:19 zughy[m] improve them (?)
19:19 MTDiscord <J​ordach> if VE maintains it it's going to look hideous
19:19 MTDiscord <J​ordach> :^)
19:19 specing zughy[m]: I use terumet+tubelib, the former has very nice formspecs
19:20 specing both have good textures as well
19:20 specing tubelib = techpack
19:20 Krock technic really needs help. Currently there's no one really involved into it
19:20 Krock PRs are reviewed and merged, though.
19:20 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> A lot of server owners maintain spaghetti setups of MTG + Mods from anything I can remember, I don't think that should be a condoned practice.
19:20 sfan5 zughy[m]: people seem to like "just throw <thing> away, it's bad" opinions very much
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19:21 big_caballito[m] lol
19:21 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> "Who toucha my spagget" is not a valid reason to hold back development IMO
19:21 MTDiscord <G​enshin> it shouldn't be tbh
19:22 zughy[m] you weren't having a go at me, were you? :c sfan5
19:38 sfan5 no
19:42 MinetestBot [git] Zughy -> minetest/minetest: Update jsoncpp to 1.9.4 (#10477) f53396b https://git.io/JTuid (2020-10-21T19:42:23Z)
19:44 MinetestBot [git] MoNTE48 -> minetest/minetest: Fix Media... 0% on loading screen (#9478) 5c0a57f https://git.io/JTuPU (2020-10-21T19:42:40Z)
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20:00 ClassWar42016 Hello, I've got a question regarding minetest-server on Ubuntu
20:01 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> Don't ask to ask, just ask
20:01 Krock he didn't ask yet
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20:03 ClassWar42016 I'm trying to set up a server that runs the MineClone game, I've downloaded the .zip from the mod database, which directory does it need to go to?
20:04 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> Usually $HOME/.minetest/games/<game>
20:05 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> If you're using a portable build (RUN_IN_PLACE) then just games/<game> in your MT folder.
20:06 ClassWar42016 It's not portable, so it's /var/games/minetest-server/.minetest/games ?
20:07 MinetestBot [git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Add documentation to builtin core.run_callbacks (#10494) 9d370b7 https://git.io/JTuXA (2020-10-21T20:05:32Z)
20:07 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> Are you using a service which uses that as the home directory for the server?
20:08 MTDiscord <B​enrob0329> Ie a systemd/openRC/runit service
20:11 sfan5 note that you need to extract the zip
20:18 big_caballito[m] how do I search for my server on servers.minetest.net
20:19 big_caballito[m] just ctrl f?
20:19 ClassWar42016 I've installed minetest-server with the package manager
20:20 sfan5 big_caballito[m]: yea
20:21 big_caballito[m] cool
20:27 big_caballito[m] If my server is up, allowed in my firewall, its UDP port is forwarded, minetest.conf server_announce = true, and LAN connections work, but it isn't on servers.minetest.net, is it just 'cause of my relatively poor internet connection?
20:28 ClassWar42016 it might take some time for it to show up on the list
20:30 sfan5 !up
20:30 MinetestBot sfan5: give me an address and (optionally) a port
20:30 sfan5 ^ try checking using that
20:31 big_caballito[m] !up 184.53.33.85:30000
20:32 MinetestBot 184.53.33.85:30000 seems to be down
20:32 big_caballito[m] hmmm..
20:32 big_caballito[m] wait..
20:32 big_caballito[m] !up 184.53.33.84:30000
20:32 ClassWar42016 What operating system are you using to host it?
20:32 MinetestBot 184.53.33.84:30000 seems to be down
20:32 big_caballito[m] Manjaro ARM
20:33 sfan5 how did you determine which of those IPs is yours
20:33 big_caballito[m] (Yes that is a very poor choice for a server, IK)
20:33 big_caballito[m] curl -4 icanhazip.com
20:34 big_caballito[m] I mistyped the first one
20:35 rubenwardy is UFW/iptables configured?
20:35 big_caballito[m] yes, my UFW is configured
20:35 big_caballito[m] I can connect via lan
20:36 sfan5 uhh, what about portforwarding?
20:37 rubenwardy that too, I jumped a bit
20:38 big_caballito[m] My router is port forwarded for UDP 30000
20:38 * big_caballito[m] uploaded an image: Screen Shot 2020-10-21 at 3.37.57 PM.png (24KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xFrpKctsjrpKVqBWAeaRcljH/Screen Shot 2020-10-21 at 3.37.57 PM.png >
20:39 rubenwardy > I can connect via lan
20:39 rubenwardy on a different computer?
20:39 big_caballito[m] yes
20:40 perrier Doy you need TCP?
20:40 sfan5 udp suffices for MT
20:40 big_caballito[m] I had TCP one, but I couldn't connect to it, Then I found it was using UDP
20:41 big_caballito[m] * I had TCP one, but I couldn't connect to it, Then I found i was supposed to use UDP
20:45 big_caballito[m] So is it just my relatively poor internet connection?
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20:46 ClassWar42016 It might be your ISP blocking it
20:47 big_caballito[m] hmm..
20:47 big_caballito[m] that would be annoying
20:47 big_caballito[m] do you know how I could check that?
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20:57 tango_ is there an easy way to transfer stuff between two chests both within the player's range?
20:57 rubenwardy as a user? Not especially, you can shift click to transfer a stack into your inv but that's it
20:57 rubenwardy there are mods and games that make it so you can pick up entire chests
20:57 rubenwardy I think
20:58 SwissalpS technic:wrench, I think
20:58 tango_ in my case it would be sufficient to just have both chest inventories open
20:58 SwissalpS allows to move chests
20:58 tango_ instead of chest + user
21:02 perrier big_caballito[m]: Maybe try a different port and see if the bot connects?
21:03 perrier big_caballito[m]: I use 30003
21:03 big_caballito[m] alright one sec
21:08 big_caballito[m] !up 184.53.33.84:42069
21:08 MinetestBot 184.53.33.84:42069 seems to be down
21:08 big_caballito[m] arrggh
21:09 perrier bummer
21:13 big_caballito[m] I guess i'll try again on a day when my internet is better
21:13 big_caballito[m] At least LAN works
21:13 big_caballito[m] I can ahve a LAN party!
21:13 big_caballito[m] * I can have a LAN party!
21:14 perrier !up 69.247.56.186:30003
21:14 MinetestBot 69.247.56.186:30003 is up (130ms)
21:14 perrier I forward TCP/UDP it might be worth a try.
21:19 big_caballito[m] !up 184.53.58.84:42069
21:19 MinetestBot 184.53.58.84:42069 seems to be down
21:20 big_caballito[m] If it means anything, the thing stops on Announcing server to...
21:20 big_caballito[m] it never says announcement successful or anything like that
21:22 perrier I'm not using the dedicated server.
21:22 perrier What about root privledges?
21:23 big_caballito[m] I have root privs, but i'm not gonna execute sudo minetest
21:23 big_caballito[m] that just seems stupid to me
21:24 big_caballito[m] Hey I just got something from servers.minetest.net
21:25 big_caballito[m] It says that the timeout was reached -_-
21:26 perrier You could run it as root as a test to see if privs are the problem.
21:27 rubenwardy if you can access it on the same LAN, then it's probably a port forwarding issue
21:27 rubenwardy and it won't be a privs issue
21:27 rubenwardy maybe check that the internal IP is correct?
21:27 big_caballito[m] Yeah I figured
21:27 perrier Might have to rebootthe router.
21:27 rubenwardy well, you have by connecting it
21:27 rschulman My copy of minetest all of a sudden has started disabling mods that I've set to enabled when I launch the game.
21:28 rubenwardy there's a dependency issue - have you got the same mod installed multiple times?
21:28 rubenwardy for example, in mod packs
21:28 big_caballito[m] I'll try again when It's not so rainy
21:28 rschulman Am I missing something here?
21:28 big_caballito[m] I have sat internet, and rain affects it a lot
21:29 rubenwardy sounds about right
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21:31 rschulman rubenwardy: Hmm, perhaps.
21:31 rschulman Any way to see which mod is the problem in the log?
21:32 rubenwardy it should log the names in the log
21:32 rubenwardy something about a conflict
21:40 rschulman I'm seeing conflicts in the log for mods that are turned off in the configure screen...
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22:10 specing https://irc.minetest.net needs a cert fix
22:10 sfan5 s/ fix//
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22:45 fluxflux sooo.... what exactly is the ontological status of mapblocks outside the [-30912,30927] boundaries? i thought they were just forced to be unloaded areas, but that doesn't seem to be the case, e.g. https://github.com/minetest-mods/mesecons/issues/544
22:46 fluxflux other mods like tnt and worldedit can also add real nodes to areas outside the map proper (though the client still treats the whole areas as unloaded always)
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23:24 specing fluxflux: hmm, I wonder if the server even sends the chunks outside those boundaries
23:24 specing i.e. could a modified client see outside the box?
23:24 fluxflux i haven't dug into things that deeply. i'm curious too.
23:27 fluxflux map generation is supposedly extends to the first mapnode boundary after -31000, but there's clearly at least one of those before -30912, so i have no idea where those boundary values are coming from.
23:28 fluxflux they aren't hard-coded
23:31 fluxflux not mapnode, mapchunk
23:32 fluxflux and i have so far failed to figure out exactly where mapchunks begin and end
23:34 specing coordinate modulo 16
23:34 specing begin == 0, end == 15?
23:35 specing fluxflux: easiest way: place tubelib forceload and punch it
23:36 fluxflux specing: that's for mapblocks, not mapchunks
23:37 fluxflux https://dev.minetest.net/Engine/Basic_data_structures
23:37 specing I thought a chunk was 16*16*16?
23:37 specing pfft
23:37 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> mapchunks are configurable i think
23:38 fluxflux oh i think i found it "minp.y is 48 + n * 80"...
23:38 fluxflux mapchunks *are* configurable
23:43 specing actually I have no idea how to make it render past the boundary
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23:44 MTDiscord <o​neplustwo> i thought there were lua functions to load a mapblock at a certain place
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23:44 fluxflux so, the default world boundaries are actually at mapchunk boundaries, but there could be one more in the negative direction :\
23:46 specing fluxflux: there seem to be 2 more in negative direction
23:46 specing (30912 / 16.0 -2) / 5 = 386
23:48 fluxflux no, just one, between -30992 and -30913

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