| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:44 |
orbea |
sfan5: this helped a bit with the mob/sword issues, thanks :) https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e774d8ca2fa5ead9f6d739a2031e6655a22a5b4d |
| 00:48 |
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| 06:01 |
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| 06:12 |
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| 06:28 |
oil_boi_ |
I just found my midi keyboard :D Oh my god this will make music production so much easier |
| 06:38 |
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| 07:03 |
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| 07:07 |
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| 07:37 |
oil_boi_ |
Is there a way to move particle spawners? |
| 07:50 |
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| 08:01 |
oil_boi_ |
I have all these questions but the forum won't load :P |
| 08:13 |
calcul0n_ |
afaik the only way to move a particle spawner is to give it a short life time and respawn it at different places |
| 08:15 |
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| 08:17 |
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| 08:20 |
oil_boi_ |
Ohhh okay! calcul0n_, does the particle spawner use opengl or is it calculated by the cpu? |
| 08:26 |
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calcul0n_ |
hmm, no idea |
| 09:04 |
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| 10:03 |
oil_boi_ |
calcul0n_: I think I got weather calculated in nicely, weight wise. The only thing I can't account for is the face that the particles seem to be cpu calculated in my testing :( |
| 10:06 |
oil_boi_ |
But what's even more confusing is the fact that my rx580 is at 10% utilization and the cpu is at 38% maxed and the frame rate still goes down |
| 10:08 |
oil_boi_ |
Also I found a pretty extreme bug, if you turn your renderer to d3d9 and then exit the game, come back in, and turn it back to opengl then enable shaders the rendering gets super messed up |
| 10:09 |
oil_boi_ |
I suspect this https://i.imgur.com/uC3S3VA.png is because the renderer is not reinitialized when you change that setting |
| 10:11 |
oil_boi_ |
But that might cause pretty severe memory leaks if not executed properly and this is a super specific case so it's not actually a problem :P |
| 10:15 |
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| 10:28 |
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| 10:30 |
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| 10:38 |
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| 11:08 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest_game: Fix respawn not working at all when suitable position was not found 8863527 https://git.io/Jvbwn (2020-04-04T11:06:40Z) |
| 11:31 |
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| 11:35 |
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| 11:38 |
oil_boi_ |
Whoa I think I just managed to make weather light weight :O |
| 11:47 |
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| 11:48 |
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| 12:06 |
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| 12:15 |
texmex |
* runs to git pull oil_boi_’s latest commits * |
| 12:15 |
oil_boi_ |
texmex: I think you're gonna love it |
| 12:19 |
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| 12:20 |
oil_boi_ |
I wish I knew why the airbrush in gimp is turning white to red when I have gray selected :L |
| 12:25 |
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| 12:37 |
calcul0n_ |
oil_boi_, maybe because your image is in indexed color mode? |
| 12:38 |
calcul0n_ |
see the image menu -> mode |
| 13:24 |
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| 13:52 |
oil_boi_ |
calcul0n: Yeah you were right, and it's all done now :D |
| 13:54 |
MinetestBot |
[git] lnjX -> minetest/minetest: Fix 'the the' typos in comments (#9554) 307d737 https://git.io/Jvb6S (2020-04-04T13:52:41Z) |
| 14:01 |
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| 14:01 |
oil_boi_ |
texmex: If you thought just the snow particles were good you're gonna flip out |
| 14:05 |
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grey joined #minetest |
| 14:05 |
grey |
Hello |
| 14:05 |
oil_boi_ |
Hi grey |
| 14:06 |
grey |
I just though I would tell someone that the forum is down. |
| 14:06 |
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| 14:09 |
grey |
I went to look up come information on installing on debian and I can't reach the forum. |
| 14:14 |
oil_boi_ |
grey: The forum keeps going down :( |
| 14:15 |
grey |
Well whoever runs it should reboot it. |
| 14:15 |
DusXMT |
A bit of a conspiracy theory, perhaps OldCoder wants you to use his forum instead ;) |
| 14:16 |
DusXMT |
(I mean, who else would DDOS Minetest, of all things? Of course, I have no evidence, just a wild speculation) |
| 14:16 |
oil_boi_ |
I have no idea who that is, but he might be in here right now |
| 14:17 |
DusXMT |
oil_boi_: A person behind a fork of minetest, he even tried to register the minetest trademark, and hosts his own site with a copy of the forums |
| 14:18 |
oil_boi_ |
If anything I thought Hackeridze would be DDOSing because he seems to have vanished :L |
| 14:18 |
oil_boi_ |
Ooooooh, that's interesting |
| 14:18 |
MinetestBot |
[git] pyrollo -> minetest/minetest: Fix cursor still visible after closing formspec while on HyperText (#… 86a0e99 https://git.io/Jvbin (2020-04-04T14:17:15Z) |
| 14:20 |
grey |
I have this one way of installing minetest from git that uses a oneliner someone posted on the forum. |
| 14:20 |
grey |
And I fucked up my minetest install somehow. |
| 14:20 |
grey |
I need it baaaaaack. |
| 14:20 |
grey |
./minetest: error while loading shared libraries: libIrrlicht.so.1.8: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 14:21 |
oil_boi_ |
grey: https://github.com/minetest/minetest |
| 14:21 |
oil_boi_ |
There's a Debian section :D |
| 14:22 |
grey |
I knooww but that oneliner always grabbed and compiled the latest version from the git. |
| 14:22 |
grey |
My fault for not copying it somewhere. |
| 14:26 |
grey |
Anyway yeah forum is down. |
| 14:26 |
grey |
Pls reboot. |
| 14:26 |
grey |
Thank you for making minetest. |
| 14:26 |
grey |
Have a nice day. |
| 14:27 |
oil_boi_ |
texmex: https://youtu.be/w88BgvHJpRY now people can REALLY have fun with snow :D |
| 14:27 |
oil_boi_ |
Snowman mob, maybe? |
| 14:32 |
oil_boi_ |
I wonder if there's a hidden setting for making entities remove themself or die on collsion detection |
| 14:41 |
grey |
Good video. |
| 14:42 |
grey |
This snow looks good. |
| 14:43 |
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| 14:44 |
grey |
Oh, this is your own minetest game. |
| 14:44 |
grey |
I see. |
| 15:21 |
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| 15:29 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Is it possible to make minetest remember passwords for servers? |
| 15:29 |
sfan5 |
not yet |
| 15:30 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Hmm. It's a pain in the butt pasting passwords into minetest from my password manager (and also my mistake for increasing my security at the cost of my convenience for a game that won't hurt me much if my accounts get hacked) |
| 15:33 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
but then again, I was thinking, who knows what kind of secure thing someone might use minetest for |
| 15:34 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I heard there was a library of leaked government documents or something kept on a minecraft server |
| 15:36 |
Krock |
use the same password (1234) for every server so you don't need to remember it |
| 15:36 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Suppose instead of passwords minetest servers could use some kind of asymmetric authentication? |
| 15:36 |
DusXMT |
Also, copy-pasting passwords is a pretty bad idea in general, who's to say your clipboard isn't being inspected? |
| 15:36 |
oil_boi_ |
Whoa you're right :O There's a Minecraft server with a library full of banned journalism |
| 15:37 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
The keys could be saved in the client, requiring no passwords at all, and can optionally be encrypted with a password, backed up to a server (still encrypted), and maybe even generated/stored with a hardware device such as a trezor or a yubikey |
| 15:38 |
swedneck |
oil_boi_: if you're thinking of the one i think you are, then that's really not true |
| 15:38 |
oil_boi_ |
Aw :( |
| 15:38 |
swedneck |
that server had like 10 books of copied text lol |
| 15:38 |
swedneck |
the whole thing was just a big shitty advertisement |
| 15:39 |
swedneck |
(also pretty weird idea since you could just distribute data via torrent over the tor network or something..) |
| 15:39 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I thought Tor wasn't good for bittorrent |
| 15:39 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Don't you mean onionshare? |
| 15:40 |
oil_boi_ |
swedneck: I'm just going to keep pretending there's a Minecraft server in the CIA that they use to store all their files |
| 15:42 |
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| 15:43 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<swedneck> (also pretty weird idea since you could just distribute data via torrent over the tor network or something..) |
| 15:43 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
probably because in countries where the stuff in the library is censored, Tor is banned. But Minecraft isn't. The idea is that to censor the Minecraft server, they'd have to ban Minecraft. I suppose they could just censor the domain where the uncensored library Minecraft server is hosted though. |
| 15:44 |
swedneck |
how do you ban tor though? |
| 15:45 |
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| 15:50 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
by blocking public entry nodes and throwing anyone caught using a bridge into a gulag |
| 15:50 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
or by being north korea |
| 15:52 |
swedneck |
don't think they're gonna care about blocking minecraft :P |
| 15:52 |
swedneck |
probably already blocked |
| 15:52 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
yeah |
| 15:53 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
time to smuggle USB drives with minetest on them into north korea |
| 15:53 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
lol |
| 15:53 |
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| 16:07 |
Krock |
Copenhagen_Bram2: just use IPoAC. effective and fast |
| 16:09 |
Hawk777 |
Bandwidth’s decent, but the latency’s pretty awful. |
| 16:11 |
Krock |
c55's VPS is overloaded again |
| 16:11 |
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| 16:19 |
orbea |
can someone point me to where the different groups are documented? Like "attached_node" and "oddly_breakable_by_hand" |
| 16:21 |
behalebabo |
engine groups are documented here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1589 |
| 16:21 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Krock: is "fast" a local term for "ping latency of hours"? |
| 16:22 |
orbea |
behalebabo: thanks, how about the numbers? What is the difference between flammable = 2 and flammable = 3? |
| 16:23 |
orbea |
i see, higher = faster rate? |
| 16:24 |
behalebabo |
orbea: the flammable group is mod-defined and used only by the fire mod in MTG IIRC, I don't think the rating matters to the MTG fire mod |
| 16:25 |
orbea |
ah, so the rating is no-op sometimes, thanks :) |
| 16:25 |
behalebabo |
yeah, there's some other places it's used but the rating does seem not to matter |
| 16:31 |
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| 16:40 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Why aren't there any good villager systems for minetest? |
| 16:40 |
orbea |
what is the current best one? |
| 16:40 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
When will procedurally generated houses be possible? |
| 16:43 |
DusXMT |
Hmm, considering that there are trees, I wouldn't think it should be that difficult to make a mod that generates structures |
| 16:44 |
DusXMT |
I'd investigate the tree code |
| 16:44 |
DS-minetest |
I think, there are some mods that add things like villages |
| 16:45 |
DS-minetest |
and there are already dungeons |
| 16:45 |
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| 16:55 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I'd like to see something like millénaire in minetest |
| 17:03 |
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| 17:08 |
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| 17:11 |
adfeno |
Hi there, :D Whichi s faster in terms of checking if a mod is loaded: minetest.get_modpath or loping in minetest.get_modnames() to find the mod? |
| 17:12 |
sfan5 |
isn't that obvious |
| 17:12 |
Krock |
checking the namespace |
| 17:12 |
Krock |
results in a warning when it's not a defined global variable |
| 17:13 |
Krock |
but it's the fastest |
| 17:13 |
DS-minetest |
to avoid the warning use minetest.global_exists |
| 17:13 |
Krock |
DS-minetest: but that's about the same speed as get_modpath |
| 17:13 |
Krock |
i.e. slower |
| 17:14 |
DS-minetest |
:O why so? |
| 17:14 |
sfan5 |
isn't global_exists pure lua? |
| 17:14 |
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| 17:15 |
DS-minetest |
afaik, global_exists simply uses rawget on _G |
| 17:15 |
Krock |
oh yes it's pure lua. in this case: direct access > global_exists > get_modpath |
| 17:15 |
DS-minetest |
I guess, the function call causes an overhead, or why the first >? |
| 17:15 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 17:16 |
adfeno |
So, minetest.global_exists is faster then? |
| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
no, it's more readable |
| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
`if minetest.global_exists("hi") then` vs `if rawget(_G, "hi") then` |
| 17:17 |
rubenwardy |
does `if _G.hi then` work? |
| 17:17 |
DS-minetest |
adfeno: if you check during load time, speed won't matter that drastically, probably. if you need to know whether a mod is loaded at runtime store the value in a local variable |
| 17:18 |
DS-minetest |
the latter causes a warning, rubenwardy |
| 17:19 |
DS-minetest |
the latemost* |
| 17:19 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Is there any place I can download minetest world/maps, like mesecon puzzles, stuff like that? |
| 17:20 |
DS-minetest |
Copenhagen_Bram2: yes, worlds subforum |
| 17:20 |
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| 17:20 |
adfeno |
Now, how are the mod names stored and referenced? For example if I want to check for ethereal, then do I use minetest.global_exists("ethereal") or minetest.global_exists("ethereal:") (notice the colon) ? |
| 17:20 |
DS-minetest |
>the latter causes a warning, rubenwardy I might be wrong, oops |
| 17:21 |
DS-minetest |
the global_exists is not a general solution |
| 17:22 |
DS-minetest |
it only works if the mod created a global variable with the name you give to global_exists |
| 17:22 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
DS-minetest: oh neat |
| 17:22 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
But I'm having trouble loading the minetest forum |
| 17:22 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
When I try to load https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=12 I get a 504 error |
| 17:22 |
adfeno |
DS-minetest: Hm, I see. |
| 17:23 |
DS-minetest |
adfeno: just use minetest.get_modpath("etheral") (or minetest.get_modpath("etheral") ~= nil) |
| 17:23 |
adfeno |
OK |
| 17:26 |
oil_boi_ |
Can you imagine a node monster with a model just made from blender bones which attaches node entities to it to build it's body :D |
| 17:28 |
DS-minetest |
yes, I can |
| 17:28 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I get the same error when trying to open forum.minetest.net. Is the forum down? |
| 17:28 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
At least minetest.net is still up |
| 17:29 |
oil_boi_ |
Copenhagen_Bram2: The forum is always down lately :L |
| 17:29 |
DS-minetest |
Copenhagen_Bram2: the forums seems to have, currently - in the last few days - even harder, problems |
| 17:30 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hmm |
| 17:31 |
oil_boi_ |
Wiki is having problems now |
| 17:32 |
rubenwardy |
it's on the same maching |
| 17:32 |
rubenwardy |
technical issues, celeron55 is on it |
| 17:33 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh neat |
| 17:35 |
oil_boi_ |
I'm gonna guess the isp is Elisa, I hear they're not so good |
| 17:36 |
sfan5 |
wrong guess |
| 17:36 |
sfan5 |
and ISP is largely irrelevant |
| 17:36 |
oil_boi_ |
I have an HP Z400 I can send him if the server is overloaded, you can raid0 up to 32 drives |
| 17:36 |
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| 17:38 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I wonder if you could host the server on a p2p protocol such as dat |
| 17:38 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
or zeronet |
| 17:38 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
then if someone else is seeding and the server goes down at least people can access a static copy |
| 17:49 |
oil_boi_ |
I just realized that is an awful idea during these events. This lockdown has my mind all over the place right now :T |
| 17:50 |
oil_boi_ |
Also Copenhagen_Bram2 yes you can |
| 17:50 |
oil_boi_ |
Just look at https://open.tube/ it's p2p youtube |
| 17:51 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
ooh it's a peertube instance |
| 18:01 |
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| 18:02 |
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| 18:06 |
texmex |
oil_boi_: Bug alert! https://github.com/oilboi/Crafter/issues/6 |
| 18:07 |
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| 18:10 |
behalebabo |
texmex: try minetest master branch |
| 18:14 |
texmex |
Oh dang |
| 18:25 |
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| 18:28 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Are minetest connections to servers encrypted? Does it use SSH? |
| 18:29 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 18:29 |
rubenwardy |
and no |
| 18:30 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Hmm |
| 18:31 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Are the passwords hashed? Or should I be careful about logging in to a minetest server over public wifi? |
| 18:32 |
Krock |
not sure whether SSH supports UDP |
| 18:32 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Minetest uses udp? |
| 18:32 |
rubenwardy |
passwords aren't hashed, we use Secure Remote Password which is a proof-based protocol |
| 18:32 |
Krock |
yes |
| 18:32 |
rubenwardy |
it's more secure than password hashing because you don't need to trust the server |
| 18:34 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Hmm |
| 18:36 |
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| 18:40 |
DS-minetest |
question: is the money here intended? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/86a0e991efff2fc616372f566a301352be28dae9/src/client/clientlauncher.h#L66 |
| 18:41 |
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| 18:43 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
so how are we gonna store a library of censored journalism on minetest if we can't encrypt it? |
| 18:44 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
not only that but what if someone wants to make a secret minetest server that's a tor hidden service |
| 18:44 |
DS-minetest |
maybe use csm to encrypt it in lua and send via modding channels |
| 18:44 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hmm |
| 18:44 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
ooh i've also wondering if it'd be possible to have some kind of p2p server |
| 18:44 |
DS-minetest |
and store it in meta of random nodes |
| 18:45 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
imagine a program that can access minetest maps from dat or ipfs repos, and then it runs a local server you can connect to |
| 18:48 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
heck, maybe i'll open grasshopper for the first time in a few months and try to learn some programming |
| 18:51 |
DS-minetest |
I've found the introducing commit for the weird £: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/146f77fdb750833c649de7159a0833c398e14a4d#diff-f1adcc8d8014db9b09c711eb1c2e56c0R81 |
| 18:52 |
DS-minetest |
but it doesn't seem to be intended |
| 18:54 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<DS-minetest> and store it in meta of random nodes |
| 18:54 |
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| 18:54 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hmm that might be a good idea |
| 18:54 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
maybe even e2e encrypted chat could be modded in |
| 19:01 |
DS-minetest |
oh, we have two `g_fontengine`s and some registered setting callbacks only operate on the inner one |
| 19:28 |
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| 19:29 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Builtin: Make item entities glow less (#9594) ea30b89 https://git.io/JvbQv (2020-04-04T19:27:30Z) |
| 19:29 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Revert collision tweaks #9365 and #9327 (#9591) d5c4412 https://git.io/JvbQf (2020-04-04T19:27:23Z) |
| 19:37 |
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| 19:47 |
DS-minetest |
edit_to_that_last_comment: oops, I'm wrong. TIL: if you have an extern static variable and don't initialize it directly, you can initialize it somewhere else without redefining it and you have to declare it there again |
| 20:01 |
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| 20:10 |
BuckarooBanzai_ |
Copenhagen_Bram2: https://github.com/wangyu-/udp2raw-tunnel |
| 20:15 |
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| 20:17 |
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| 20:32 |
texmex |
oil_boi_: I'm getting 5 FPS with snow >_< |
| 20:34 |
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| 20:37 |
DS-minetest |
:O now I know why the root gui element is a StaticText, it's minetest that does that weird stuff |
| 20:39 |
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| 20:42 |
Extex |
I've got a crafitem and I want it to last through craft recipes but get damaged each craft use. How would I do this? |
| 20:42 |
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| 20:42 |
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Wuzzy joined #minetest |
| 20:43 |
DS-minetest |
I think, you need to use the on_craft callback |
| 20:44 |
Extex |
Okay I'll look into it tnx |
| 20:44 |
DS-minetest |
here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/ea30b89d3fcaf599a4d4c4e2f12f01a1d59f1072/doc/lua_api.txt#L4353 |
| 20:45 |
DS-minetest |
I guess you have to modify the craft player inventory list |
| 21:01 |
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| 21:21 |
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| 21:31 |
Verticen |
What would one do to have a decent survival challenge in Minetest? I've tried some of the mobs mods, but it seems that hostile mobs rarely spawn and they are somewhat easy to defeat. How to I make it more of a challenge? |
| 21:31 |
rubenwardy |
CTF |
| 21:31 |
rubenwardy |
:D |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
also, Exile |
| 21:32 |
Verticen |
CTF? what is this? |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
it's buggy but is certainly a survival channel |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
CTF is a server - Capture the Flag |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
Exile is a game for Minetest |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
!mod Exile |
| 21:32 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Exile 0.1 by Dokimi - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=24334 |
| 21:32 |
Verticen |
Oh. I guess I will give exile a try |
| 21:33 |
rubenwardy |
Exile is PvE |
| 21:33 |
rubenwardy |
player vs environment |
| 21:41 |
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| 21:52 |
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| 21:56 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Wuzzy: Just found out about RealTest for Minetest 5. Since it's exactly like the original, do you plan on making a Realtest NG where you add stuff to it? |
| 21:57 |
Wuzzy |
no |
| 21:58 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh okay |
| 21:59 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I have to wonder, is it really that realistic to take down a tree by digging the dirt under it? |
| 22:01 |
sfan5 |
ever see a real life tree float? |
| 22:02 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
no but ever see someone dig a tree to the ground with their bare hands? |
| 22:02 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
trees have roots |
| 22:03 |
sfan5 |
right |
| 22:03 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
also i just made a dirt block float in realtest |
| 22:03 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
:o |
| 22:03 |
yrungr |
realtest? |
| 22:03 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
yeah realtest |
| 22:03 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
it's minetest but more realistic |
| 22:04 |
yrungr |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2671 |
| 22:04 |
DS-minetest |
"but" would imply that it's something like a fork, but it's a subgame |
| 22:04 |
yrungr |
interesting. |
| 22:05 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<DS-minetest> "but" would imply that it's something like a fork, but it's a subgame |
| 22:05 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
maybe it's a fork of the minetest subgame |
| 22:05 |
Wuzzy |
no |
| 22:05 |
Wuzzy |
there is no minetest subgame |
| 22:05 |
DS-minetest |
you mean mtg? |
| 22:05 |
Wuzzy |
probably |
| 22:05 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
yes i mean mtg |
| 22:05 |
Wuzzy |
no it not a fork |
| 22:05 |
Wuzzy |
at least i think so |
| 22:06 |
Wuzzy |
its its own game with a collection of a FEW mods that were popular back in the days (like flowers) |
| 22:07 |
Wuzzy |
what do you think about this game so far? |
| 22:07 |
Wuzzy |
roots.... Copenhagen_Bram2 thats actually a great idea |
| 22:07 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
thanks |
| 22:07 |
Wuzzy |
yes roots should be added when its about realism |
| 22:07 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
here's another idea http://www.native-art-in-canada.com/fellatree.html |
| 22:07 |
Wuzzy |
its funny how tress just emerge out from the dirt with no roots at all |
| 22:08 |
DS-minetest |
Wuzzy: btw. did you remove the bad changes that the other realtest ngs introduced? (like furniture stuff or ugly things) |
| 22:08 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
> Pat the mud onto the tree about three feet from the ground. Continue making mud and patting it onto the tree until you've girdled it to a height of about six feet with mud that is at least two inches thick and isn't showing any signs of falling off. |
| 22:08 |
Wuzzy |
notice that this game is also very VERY old. as i said in the thread, its about preserving history |
| 22:09 |
Wuzzy |
DS-minetest: no |
| 22:09 |
Wuzzy |
hmmm actually |
| 22:09 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
so basically imagine in realtest you could pat clay blocks around a tree to stop it from burning all the way up, then build a fire under the tree |
| 22:09 |
Wuzzy |
Your question cannot be answered because it contains a false assumption |
| 22:10 |
Wuzzy |
DS-minetest: the game is not based on any of the other realtest redos, so i did not *remove* those additions. i never added them ? |
| 22:10 |
DS-minetest |
ah, ok |
| 22:11 |
Wuzzy |
I wouldn't even call "my" Realtest a "redo". it's just a resurrection for MT5 |
| 22:11 |
DS-minetest |
what source did you take as base? |
| 22:12 |
Wuzzy |
i am not 100% sure |
| 22:12 |
DS-minetest |
huh? |
| 22:12 |
Wuzzy |
but i think its from the downlod link in the 2012 thread by sda97 |
| 22:12 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<Wuzzy> what do you think about this game so far? |
| 22:12 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
So far I've found that the best part of this game is your documentation. Back before Minetest 5, when Realtest was not a piece of history, but rather just another mod, I played it, and found it impossible to progress. But thanks to the readme and the crafting guide you've added, I think I'm about to have some fun. |
| 22:12 |
Wuzzy |
ITS NOT A MOD!!!!!! |
| 22:12 |
Wuzzy |
arrrgggh |
| 22:12 |
Wuzzy |
? |
| 22:12 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
sorry |
| 22:13 |
Wuzzy |
this stuff always makes me angry ? |
| 22:13 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
just another subgame* |
| 22:13 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
btw I think we're calling subgames just games now |
| 22:13 |
DS-minetest |
wasn't there a website with documentation (in the danwhatwasthisguysnameagain version)? |
| 22:13 |
Wuzzy |
yes |
| 22:13 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
also how is mtg different from any other game? |
| 22:13 |
Wuzzy |
DS-minetest: what? |
| 22:14 |
DS-minetest |
finding evidence is difficult with the current state of the forum |
| 22:14 |
DS-minetest |
Dan Duncombe was their name |
| 22:14 |
Wuzzy |
It's most probably grabbed from this thread : https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2671 |
| 22:14 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
DS-minetest: try web.archive.org |
| 22:15 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
for accessing archived copies of the forum |
| 22:15 |
Wuzzy |
and this thread in turn links to https://github.com/sda97ghb/realtest/ |
| 22:15 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
and maybe even a snapshot of the website that used to be up |
| 22:15 |
Wuzzy |
Sadly, "my" realtest is not based on the original GitHub repo |
| 22:15 |
Wuzzy |
it seems to be an older version of RealTest, oddly |
| 22:16 |
DS-minetest |
thx Copenhagen_Bram2 |
| 22:16 |
Wuzzy |
there's a download link in the 2012 thread that seems to give me a more updated version |
| 22:16 |
Wuzzy |
apparently sda97 didnt bother to push these changes into the repo |
| 22:16 |
Wuzzy |
but i am not 100% sure |
| 22:16 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hmm |
| 22:16 |
Wuzzy |
actually, "my" realtest is based on a years-old copy in ~/.minetest on my harddrive from which i have forgotten the origin ? |
| 22:16 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
lol |
| 22:17 |
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| 22:17 |
Wuzzy |
but I **think** its the official download |
| 22:17 |
Wuzzy |
because it's very very close to the git repo |
| 22:17 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
how hard would it be to update your resurrection to a more recent version of realtest? |
| 22:17 |
DS-minetest |
your pc is the official download server |
| 22:17 |
Wuzzy |
what do you mean? o_O |
| 22:18 |
Wuzzy |
there is no more recent version of realtest |
| 22:18 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
i mean make a more recent version of the old minetest compatible with minetest 5 |
| 22:18 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
relatively more recent |
| 22:18 |
Wuzzy |
????? |
| 22:18 |
Wuzzy |
what do you want?! |
| 22:19 |
Wuzzy |
minetest 0.4.17 is incompatible with minetest 5. |
| 22:19 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I mean turn the original realtest github repo or the realtest download from the forum that's more updated, into realtest for minetest 5 |
| 22:19 |
Wuzzy |
why? |
| 22:19 |
Wuzzy |
it doesn't make sense |
| 22:19 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
and I mean if the forum download is more updated, since you said you're not sure |
| 22:20 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hmm |
| 22:20 |
rubenwardy |
I can update the forum topic |
| 22:20 |
Wuzzy |
no please don't!! |
| 22:20 |
Wuzzy |
you're destroying evidence |
| 22:20 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
... |
| 22:20 |
rubenwardy |
.. |
| 22:20 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
quick, use web.archive.org/save to protect your evidence from being destroyed |
| 22:20 |
Wuzzy |
besides, i think you will fail anyway, given the flood of 500 internal server errors ? |
| 22:21 |
rubenwardy |
I'll update it to have [size=3]There's a [url=link]maintained version by Wuzzy[/url][/size] |
| 22:21 |
rubenwardy |
that's it |
| 22:21 |
Wuzzy |
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 22:21 |
Wuzzy |
i thought you wanted to purge the links |
| 22:21 |
rubenwardy |
I'm not particularly motivated to edit the forum now htough |
| 22:21 |
Wuzzy |
surprise! |
| 22:21 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<Wuzzy> why? |
| 22:21 |
Wuzzy |
DS-minetest: what did you mean, ugly furniture? |
| 22:22 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
because maybe the original github repo or the forum download has some more features added than the copy you had on your hard drive |
| 22:22 |
Wuzzy |
i have already made comparisons and i know the download is more up-to-date |
| 22:22 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
assuming your copy is older than the repo or the download and some features were added or bugs fixed since then |
| 22:22 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh okay |
| 22:22 |
Wuzzy |
which is why i picked that one, not the repo |
| 22:23 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
can you resurrect the download to minetest 5 like you did your local copy? |
| 22:23 |
DS-minetest |
Wuzzy: I think I saw some ugly detailed mesh stuff on some server or somewhere, I'm bad at remembering |
| 22:23 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
how hard is it to do so? |
| 22:23 |
Wuzzy |
you're still not making any sense |
| 22:23 |
DS-minetest |
so why am I not allowed to read again? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7573 |
| 22:23 |
Wuzzy |
my realtest revival ***IS*** based on the forum download |
| 22:23 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh |
| 22:24 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh okay |
| 22:24 |
Wuzzy |
lol |
| 22:24 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
i thought you were saying it was based on your copy in your ~/.minetest |
| 22:24 |
Wuzzy |
hmmm |
| 22:24 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
ok so never mind then yay |
| 22:24 |
Wuzzy |
maybe i should just download everything again to check if i missed any fancy features |
| 22:25 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
but now you must make a realtest NG where you add roots and make it so you have to pack clay around a tree and burn the base of it down |
| 22:25 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
like, a whole bunch of dirt and root blocks under trees that take 5 times as long to dig as the dirt blocks |
| 22:25 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
lol |
| 22:26 |
Wuzzy |
no |
| 22:26 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh ok |
| 22:26 |
Wuzzy |
i agree its a nice idea but i do not plan a RealTest NG or anything like that |
| 22:27 |
Wuzzy |
i have other plans for now |
| 22:27 |
* Copenhagen_Bram2 |
loads https://web.archive.org/save/https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2671 to protect the evidence from being destroyed :) |
| 22:27 |
DS-minetest |
Vanes saE has another version of realtest: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/realtest |
| 22:28 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
last commit was only 4 years ago hmm |
| 22:28 |
VanessaE |
that's not "another" version |
| 22:28 |
VanessaE |
it's just an old fork I made to add some random feature that I don't recall what |
| 22:28 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hi vanessa |
| 22:28 |
VanessaE |
hi, |
| 22:29 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
check the commit log, maybe it'll remind you |
| 22:29 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
and then make wuzzy add them |
| 22:29 |
DS-minetest |
oops, the name was still in the linke |
| 22:29 |
DS-minetest |
hi |
| 22:29 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hi |
| 22:30 |
Wuzzy |
I specfically picked the "real" RealTest and not one of the rehashes because i was not convinced any of them was really superior |
| 22:32 |
DS-minetest |
SmallJoker's mod search showed me that dan's realtest version (which was initially not bad and used on a server) (and it was the version with the doc website, I think) had as source github / vanessa e / realtest |
| 22:33 |
VanessaE |
if you're gonna base something on realtest, fork from THAT ^ one. |
| 22:36 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
you know, i think realtest is kinda like nodecore |
| 22:37 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
has anyone played nodecore? |
| 22:37 |
DS-minetest |
can't find |
| 22:37 |
DS-minetest |
there're just rabbits |
| 22:37 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
huh? lemme try |
| 22:38 |
Wuzzy |
VanessaE: why |
| 22:38 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
and now my computer is slow to search |
| 22:38 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
sigh |
| 22:39 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
nodecore is right here https://content.minetest.net/packages/Warr1024/nodecore/ |
| 22:39 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
maybe the only similarity is that it takes more effort to take down a tree |
| 22:40 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hmm... and the rarity of the ore |
| 22:40 |
DS-minetest |
where does that new "contentdb" website thing link the link to the forum topic? |
| 22:40 |
rubenwardy |
in the header |
| 22:40 |
VanessaE |
Wuzzy: because it's a bit more up-to-date than the original realtest. I don't remember what all is different though |
| 22:41 |
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| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
NodeCore doesn't have a forum topic, mind |
| 22:41 |
* DS-minetest |
can't find it. |
| 22:41 |
DS-minetest |
no forum topic?! |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
nope |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
warr1024 is against the forums |
| 22:41 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
how come? |
| 22:41 |
Wuzzy |
wat. |
| 22:41 |
rubenwardy |
\o/ |
| 22:42 |
rubenwardy |
they're only on Discord |
| 22:42 |
DS-minetest |
well, then it's not officially released |
| 22:42 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
maybe he prefers discord |
| 22:42 |
Wuzzy |
booooo! |
| 22:42 |
DS-minetest |
ahh |
| 22:42 |
rubenwardy |
it is - ContentDB is the canonical place for releases now |
| 22:42 |
Wuzzy |
yeah thats good enough |
| 22:42 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
hmm |
| 22:42 |
Wuzzy |
but still. discord.. boooo! boooooooooo! |
| 22:42 |
Wuzzy |
why have people no respect for freedom these days? ? |
| 22:42 |
DS-minetest |
I will never use contentdb if I can't git clone from there |
| 22:43 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Wuzzy: nodecore has an IRC channel that's bridged to discord |
| 22:43 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
#nodecore |
| 22:43 |
rubenwardy |
he used to be on IRC |
| 22:43 |
DS-minetest |
I've tried to read the discord eula thing once, but wasn't able to. large wall of grey text on lite grey |
| 22:43 |
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| 22:43 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
erm... but it's bridged to its own discord channel on the nodecore server that gets ignored |
| 22:43 |
Wuzzy |
gosh. why make it so complicated? ... |
| 22:44 |
Wuzzy |
why do people hate standardized, functional, tried and tested technologies so much and love proprietary, locked down monopolized solutions instead? ? |
| 22:44 |
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| 22:44 |
Wuzzy |
its so frustrating |
| 22:45 |
DS-minetest |
hmm, maybe advertising |
| 22:45 |
DS-minetest |
and other people forcing you |
| 22:45 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<Copenhagen_Bram2> erm... but it's bridged to its own discord channel on the nodecore server that gets ignored |
| 22:45 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
scratched that, the IRC channel is active and I've been told in there that it's been re-bridged to the discord main channel |
| 22:46 |
rubenwardy |
IRC really isn't user friendly at all |
| 22:46 |
Wuzzy |
"other people forcing you" ... indeed. social pressure is a biggie |
| 22:46 |
Wuzzy |
I think irc is as userfriendly as their clients |
| 22:46 |
DS-minetest |
and organizations that weirdly entrust their life to other firms |
| 22:46 |
Wuzzy |
but i agree current clients we have now could be better ... |
| 22:46 |
rubenwardy |
having so many clients is also user unfriendly |
| 22:46 |
rubenwardy |
given how none of the popular ones are user friendly |
| 22:46 |
Wuzzy |
maybe we just need ONE high-quality irc client |
| 22:47 |
rubenwardy |
the only user friendly clients are probably just IRCCloud (proprietary) and Matrix (not IRC) |
| 22:47 |
DS-minetest |
high-quality means lightweight for me |
| 22:47 |
Wuzzy |
i like my hexchat but i wouldnt give it to n00bs tbh ? |
| 22:47 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
What about kiwiIRC |
| 22:47 |
rubenwardy |
Quassel would be good if you had cores-as-a-service |
| 22:47 |
rubenwardy |
oh yeah, I forgot kiwiIRC was an actual client |
| 22:47 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
it is |
| 22:48 |
rubenwardy |
DS-minetest: I use git to get mods |
| 22:48 |
rubenwardy |
ContentDB is an alternative to the forums for finding mods, it's not an alternative to git |
| 22:48 |
Hawk777 |
Lots of IRC networks have webchat clients these days, too… seems like that might not be a bad starting point for less-technical users? |
| 22:49 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
and there's https://alternativeto.net/software/discord-app/ |
| 22:50 |
Wuzzy |
i agree. webchat is a great start to get people started |
| 22:50 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
how do you guys feel about bridging chatrooms to multiple protocols? |
| 22:50 |
sfan5 |
there's no denying that discord is a much more user-friendly chat platform, IRC also has some inherent disadvantages by its design |
| 22:50 |
sfan5 |
but I don't think discord makes a great replacement for a proper website where you can download stuff |
| 22:50 |
sfan5 |
yet that's what many people use it for these days |
| 22:51 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
for downloading stuff? |
| 22:51 |
Wuzzy |
it seems that's probably the killer issue yea ? |
| 22:51 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
like, filesharing? |
| 22:51 |
Wuzzy |
free software is losing HARD right now. and its because of usability |
| 22:51 |
sfan5 |
well just anything you'd visit a website for: finding information, download links, ... |
| 22:52 |
Wuzzy |
wait people use discord just to post a download link? wtf |
| 22:52 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
well it's certainly easier (and free) to make a discord guild than to make a website |
| 22:52 |
rom1504 |
only reason why irc is not the popular kid these days is because nobody is making money out of it |
| 22:52 |
rom1504 |
all the other IMs are popular because of money |
| 22:52 |
|
benrob0329 joined #minetest |
| 22:53 |
rom1504 |
(messenger, whatsapp, telegram, signal, discord, slack, zoom, gitter, etc) |
| 22:53 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
i use signal, where exactly does signal get money? |
| 22:53 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
it's open source, no ads |
| 22:53 |
Wuzzy |
i think money is a oversimplified explanation |
| 22:53 |
Wuzzy |
its more complex than JUST about money |
| 22:53 |
rubenwardy |
I've not seen anyone use discord to post a download link |
| 22:53 |
rubenwardy |
Discord is an alternative to IRC rather than the forums |
| 22:54 |
Wuzzy |
when discord becomes an "alternative" to IRC then minetest is dead to me lol |
| 22:54 |
Wuzzy |
oops |
| 22:54 |
Wuzzy |
i mean forums, not IRC |
| 22:54 |
rom1504 |
Copenhagen_Bram2: from investements in a company (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Messenger#Funding ) |
| 22:55 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<rubenwardy> I've not seen anyone use discord to post a download link |
| 22:55 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
i'm a frequent user of discord (unfortunately), and they make channels just for holding messages with rules, introductions, download links in a few messages from the admins and they're locked so that nobody else can message in it |
| 22:55 |
rom1504 |
if it become a bit more popular, for sure they'll sell user info or something simila |
| 22:55 |
rubenwardy |
that's not their main purpose though? |
| 22:55 |
rubenwardy |
that's informational |
| 22:55 |
rubenwardy |
they probably still have a website |
| 22:56 |
rom1504 |
Wuzzy: actually it's really just about money |
| 22:56 |
Wuzzy |
i mean okay. i can understand why people use discord (or anything proprietary) cuz convenience |
| 22:56 |
rubenwardy |
it's about time and experience, not money |
| 22:56 |
rom1504 |
money = you can pay for advertising of the app/protocol |
| 22:56 |
rubenwardy |
money means you can hire time and experience |
| 22:56 |
Wuzzy |
but what really gets me when they make it their ONLY means of commincation, therefore discriminating the FOSS zealots like me |
| 22:56 |
rom1504 |
and you can pay engineers to make the app look user friendly, etc |
| 22:57 |
Wuzzy |
i mean, they bascially force you to use discord. if thats not an option for you, you're out |
| 22:57 |
rom1504 |
having an open communication protocol is a negative for an IM app that's supposed to make money because people can switch to another app at any other time |
| 22:57 |
rom1504 |
that's why big companies try to replace email as much as they can |
| 22:58 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I wonder if any game theorists have figured out how to make free, open source software that's high quality and competitive |
| 22:59 |
benrob0329 |
Quite frankly, none of the FOSS solutions know who they're targetting. IRC is very old and very inconvienient to use across multiple devices, Matrix is a buggy POS with no development strategy, XMPP is a mess of competing standards, Tox is boarderline dead, Signal at least knows who it's for (encrypted SMS, but that doesn't help this), Rocket.Chat is close, but requires a website client |
| 23:00 |
rom1504 |
the good thing is, it's doesn't matter too much |
| 23:00 |
rom1504 |
you can use an irc client and a bunch of bridges |
| 23:00 |
rom1504 |
so it works for any new IM that come and goes |
| 23:00 |
Wuzzy |
its interesting how e-mail still managed to survive the proprietary BS mostly |
| 23:00 |
benrob0329 |
E-Mail has had newer standards put into place to keep up with new needs |
| 23:01 |
rom1504 |
maybe the reason why email survives is because of the straight forward parallel (and usage) with physical mail |
| 23:01 |
rom1504 |
which is also pretty much an open standard |
| 23:02 |
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galaxie joined #minetest |
| 23:02 |
benrob0329 |
But FOSS chat solutions tend to try to just copy proprietary products to a worse extent, when their made for more technical users who atually care about the politics |
| 23:02 |
rom1504 |
but yeah I agree it's interesting that it did survive |
| 23:02 |
benrob0329 |
Physical mail is not an open standard, like at all |
| 23:02 |
rom1504 |
really ? |
| 23:03 |
rom1504 |
it's just an envelope and paper inside |
| 23:03 |
Wuzzy |
lets say its a bad analogy |
| 23:03 |
benrob0329 |
(in the US) There are multiple competing companies who all have seperate infrustructures, one of which (USPS) has special boxes that only they can use |
| 23:03 |
rom1504 |
it's enveloppe + adress written on it |
| 23:03 |
rom1504 |
yes I'm talking about classical letters |
| 23:04 |
rom1504 |
sending bigger things also doesn't work with email |
| 23:04 |
benrob0329 |
Shipping lables are different, postage is different, its all linked to whatever infrustructure is there and it's usually controlled by a single entity under penalty of law. |
| 23:04 |
benrob0329 |
It's really not an open standard, it's just a widely accepted one. |
| 23:04 |
rom1504 |
yeah ok |
| 23:05 |
rom1504 |
I guess my point is that the "email" concept is as easily understandable as the "mail" concept |
| 23:05 |
benrob0329 |
Yes |
| 23:05 |
rom1504 |
sending some piece of content to someone, that will take some time to be delivered |
| 23:06 |
Wuzzy |
or maybe the explanation is much simpler. there's so much software that depends on email that you just cant replace with something else |
| 23:06 |
rom1504 |
whereas for IM there are lot of different ways to think about it |
| 23:06 |
Wuzzy |
and i know for a fact there have been several attempts by corporate or government to replace e-mail by their own BS system |
| 23:06 |
Wuzzy |
they all crashed and burned, THANKFULLY |
| 23:06 |
rom1504 |
and there is no physical equivalent, you cannot instantly talk with people over letters |
| 23:06 |
benrob0329 |
E-mail probably needs a good replacement (it's a mess to set up) but it's so ingrained in our infrustructure it's nearly impossile |
| 23:07 |
benrob0329 |
IM is most similar to verbal conversation |
| 23:07 |
benrob0329 |
Which is something most FOSS solutions ignore, the actual voice communication part of most services post-y2k |
| 23:07 |
rom1504 |
well here, with just that sentence you found an issue |
| 23:07 |
Wuzzy |
In Germany there was/is something called "De-Mail" which is basically e-mail, but "made in germany" with its complete own, incompatible standard. basically perfect example of NIH syndrome |
| 23:08 |
rubenwardy |
It's not actually that hard to set up it's hard to set it up and not be considered spam |
| 23:08 |
rom1504 |
if it's similar to verbal conversation: should it include audio ? |
| 23:08 |
rom1504 |
that's a divergence already |
| 23:08 |
benrob0329 |
That question has no nuance to it |
| 23:08 |
Wuzzy |
long story short De-Mail was a clusterfuck of insanity and almost nobody in germany uses it |
| 23:08 |
rom1504 |
should it be 24/24, should it include smileys, should it include video, different rooms or just person to person, ... |
| 23:08 |
benrob0329 |
What kind of audio? In what context? To what extend? |
| 23:09 |
benrob0329 |
*extent |
| 23:09 |
benrob0329 |
Yes there are different needs, thats why you need to know your audience |
| 23:09 |
benrob0329 |
Discord knows their audience, that's why it's so popular |
| 23:10 |
rom1504 |
yeah but I mean I guess that's why there is a proliferation of IM stuff |
| 23:10 |
Wuzzy |
just knowing your audience is not sufficient to be popular |
| 23:10 |
rom1504 |
each addressing slightly different needs |
| 23:10 |
benrob0329 |
IRC doesn't even know thier audience anymore, half the people want modern features and are pushing for it and the other half want it to stay in 1999 |
| 23:10 |
sfan5 |
pretty sure the former half has already moved on to e.g. matrix |
| 23:11 |
benrob0329 |
except Matrix has the same problem, but even worse |
| 23:11 |
benrob0329 |
I should know, I admin a few Matrix rooms |
| 23:11 |
sfan5 |
doesn't have those modern features people want? |
| 23:11 |
sfan5 |
+itr |
| 23:11 |
sfan5 |
it* |
| 23:12 |
Wuzzy |
is there at least a way to teach people how rude it is to force people to use "<random proprietary service X>" to coommunicate with them, and if you don't do that, you're out? |
| 23:12 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<rom1504> it's enveloppe + adress written on it |
| 23:12 |
rom1504 |
what would be really awesome really would be a smart client with the union of all features and that could connect to almost all protocols. There has been a few try at this, nothing that works really well. But I don't lose hope that it'll happen one day |
| 23:12 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
and a US stamp you have to buy |
| 23:13 |
sfan5 |
no because "people" do not care about any (F)OSS/proprietary distinction |
| 23:13 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
i wouldn't call that open |
| 23:13 |
Wuzzy |
sfan5: its not even about proprietary/foss |
| 23:13 |
Wuzzy |
its about active discrimination . |
| 23:13 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
it's only 'open' if you stick it in an envelope and bring it to the recipient yourself |
| 23:13 |
benrob0329 |
Matrix has modern features, but their added in such a chaotic and ass-backwards mannor that I'm not sure who their targetting anymore |
| 23:13 |
sfan5 |
ok but consider this: "where's the problem? you can just sign up for discord and join, it's free." |
| 23:13 |
Wuzzy |
if you're only supporting ONE particular service, you'Re excluding a lot of people (maybe unwillingly) |
| 23:14 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<sfan5> ok but consider this: "where's the problem? you can just sign up for discord and join, it's free." |
| 23:14 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
but you have to give them your emails |
| 23:14 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
email* |
| 23:14 |
sfan5 |
if you want to answer that with a lecture they will already have stopped listening to you |
| 23:14 |
rom1504 |
Copenhagen_Bram2: yes maybe "open" is not the right word, but maybe something like "universal concept". the envelop + adress concept (+ paying yeah it works like that in physical word) is pretty much used in all countries |
| 23:14 |
benrob0329 |
Discord is just as much Voice Chat as it is IM |
| 23:14 |
Wuzzy |
yeah and this makes me sad |
| 23:15 |
Wuzzy |
i feel FOSS people are generally having a hard time |
| 23:15 |
Wuzzy |
they are being discriminated and its not even really perceived as such |
| 23:15 |
Hawk777 |
And the postal system is a closed *network*, but the *client* choice is open: just pay and ship, nobody forces you to write on a certain type of paper, using a certain type of pen, or in a certain font. |
| 23:15 |
sfan5 |
people who care about these distinctions do have a hard time, yes |
| 23:15 |
benrob0329 |
FOSS support is at an all-time high, what are you talking about? |
| 23:15 |
Wuzzy |
and those who discriminate probably dont do it "because they're evil" |
| 23:16 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
I'm starting to wonder where signal gets their funding |
| 23:16 |
sfan5 |
benrob0329: I think Wuzzy is more taking about "software freedom is important to me and I avoid proprietary apps and platforms" than "Open Source software is great, my employer just switched to Libre Office and we don't have to pay MS a dime" |
| 23:17 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
It's one open source messenger I can think of that is user friendly and is somewhat popular |
| 23:17 |
* Copenhagen_Bram2 |
looks it up on duckduckgo |
| 23:17 |
benrob0329 |
This all started with Nodecore being mostly on Discord, but it's also bridged to IRC and works perfectly fine there |
| 23:17 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Huh, they got a $50 million from Whatsapp |
| 23:17 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh, from the whatsapp co-founder |
| 23:18 |
Wuzzy |
sfan5: yea |
| 23:18 |
benrob0329 |
I learned that trying to convert your friends to a broken, buggy messenger that doesn't fit the user-case only results in pain. |
| 23:18 |
rubenwardy |
whatsapp bought the signal protocol |
| 23:18 |
sfan5 |
s/bought/implemented/ ? |
| 23:18 |
Wuzzy |
I think the open source argument of "open source is great" as in "it's great quality" or as in "its superior development" is complete BS |
| 23:19 |
Wuzzy |
because just because you're "opening the source" does not make your software better quality |
| 23:19 |
rubenwardy |
well, they paid money to them and implemented their protocol |
| 23:19 |
rubenwardy |
I guess "buying" isn't accurate |
| 23:19 |
rubenwardy |
also, citation needed |
| 23:19 |
Wuzzy |
the open source advocates really need to stop using the quality argument, because its not true |
| 23:19 |
benrob0329 |
Signal's e2e encryption has become the new standard for IM |
| 23:20 |
rubenwardy |
signal is really good |
| 23:20 |
rubenwardy |
there are gems in the FOSS world |
| 23:20 |
rubenwardy |
Mastodon is awesome |
| 23:20 |
Wuzzy |
truth is, open source, free software and proprietary software. each of them can be super good or super bad, in terms of quality. |
| 23:20 |
benrob0329 |
You're never going to convince a normal person to use a brand new platform because its open source, just like you're never going to convince a chat room of randos that security is important for their conversation |
| 23:20 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
<rubenwardy> there are gems in the FOSS world |
| 23:20 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
don't forget the elephant in the room here, Firefox |
| 23:21 |
rom1504 |
and chromium |
| 23:21 |
Wuzzy |
i think the big logic mistake in open source advocacy is the false belief that open source is seen as a "development methology". its not |
| 23:21 |
sfan5 |
yeah I was about to mention |
| 23:21 |
rubenwardy |
oh yes, Firefox is great |
| 23:21 |
orbea |
Copenhagen_Bram2: firefox, the worst brother excluding all the other ones... |
| 23:21 |
Wuzzy |
i dont like chromium ? its too googly |
| 23:21 |
sfan5 |
the problem with chromium is that it's more "you can look at the source and have fun with it" than real community-run FOSS |
| 23:21 |
Wuzzy |
i have downloaded chromium but you REALLY notice the google influence in it |
| 23:22 |
rom1504 |
yes it's not open development |
| 23:22 |
sfan5 |
also raises the question of whether you can consider Firefox to be "real" FOSS, since Mozilla is the sole developer and owner |
| 23:22 |
Wuzzy |
yes it is real foss |
| 23:22 |
Wuzzy |
as i said, FOSS is not the same as development methology |
| 23:22 |
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Taoki joined #minetest |
| 23:22 |
Wuzzy |
you can run development like a cathedral and still be foss |
| 23:22 |
rubenwardy |
does mozilla develop in public and accept external contributions? |
| 23:22 |
benrob0329 |
Fun fact: FF now routs DNS queries through Cloudflair by default |
| 23:23 |
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| 23:23 |
rom1504 |
really |
| 23:23 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: yes |
| 23:23 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
yeah FOSS doesn't mean you have to let others contribute, you can simply put the source code on github and not accept anyone's contributions if you like |
| 23:23 |
Wuzzy |
which of the development models - cathedral or bazar ... is an ENTIRELY different discussion than proprietary vs libr |
| 23:23 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
and still be the dictator of your project |
| 23:23 |
Wuzzy |
yea |
| 23:23 |
rubenwardy |
it doesn't know, which is why there is a distinction between open-developed and closed-room developed FOSS software |
| 23:23 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
although someone might fork it |
| 23:23 |
Wuzzy |
although i think dictator is a bit of a hyperbole ? |
| 23:23 |
rubenwardy |
Android is closed-room developed |
| 23:24 |
benrob0329 |
I'm the dictator of my project, doesn't mean it's not FOSS. It just means I don't want design-by-democracy |
| 23:24 |
rubenwardy |
they dump all the source code just before release |
| 23:24 |
sfan5 |
benrob0329: Cloudflare* and only in the US (currently) |
| 23:25 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
making your project open source does incentivise you to be a benevolent dictator though |
| 23:25 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
if you put spyware in there someone will call it out |
| 23:25 |
orbea |
depends how well you hide it |
| 23:25 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
true |
| 23:25 |
orbea |
an off by one error could be an exploit in some cases |
| 23:26 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
guess you'll have to embed the spyware in the binary |
| 23:26 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
or sneak it into the code |
| 23:26 |
Wuzzy |
i think the reason why proprietary is still so popular is cuz many people are not aware of the actual proven abuses that the software does without them knowing |
| 23:26 |
Wuzzy |
lots of proprietary software (not all!) spy on their users without them noticing |
| 23:26 |
Wuzzy |
its not good when spyware has become socally acceptable |
| 23:26 |
benrob0329 |
Most people just accept it and move on |
| 23:27 |
orbea |
which is exactly why these technologies continue to exist, despite abusing their userbase |
| 23:28 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
if only george orwell knew that we would be buying the telescreens |
| 23:28 |
benrob0329 |
These issues have been hashed out time and time again though, what are we trying to achieve with this conversation? |
| 23:28 |
orbea |
its arguing to the choir :) |
| 23:29 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
maybe it's fun to sing along |
| 23:29 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
who else are we gonna talk about it with? it's easier to chat about it with you guys than debate it with someone else |
| 23:29 |
Wuzzy |
oh how right you are |
| 23:30 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
also i haven't thought much about what you said about the proven abuses |
| 23:30 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
until you mentioned it |
| 23:30 |
Wuzzy |
i mean, why would anyone sane buy Amazon Echo or that Google thingie and all the other smarter-than-you speakers? |
| 23:30 |
rubenwardy |
Warr1024 says that both the IRC and Discord for #nodecore are equally as official |
| 23:30 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
because muh alexa turn my lights off |
| 23:31 |
benrob0329 |
Because digital assistants are handy, that's why |
| 23:31 |
Wuzzy |
i think that these devices abuse you should be a wellknown fact today |
| 23:31 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
alexa: i'm sorry dave, i'm afraid I can't do that |
| 23:31 |
Wuzzy |
? |
| 23:31 |
rubenwardy |
I want to make my own IoT assistant |
| 23:31 |
benrob0329 |
People accept that most companies are spying on them, why do you think Facebook is still so popular? |
| 23:31 |
Wuzzy |
"Alexa, do you work for the NSA" ... - "Do you think we're that stupid?" ? |
| 23:31 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
mycroft, turn the lights off |
| 23:32 |
benrob0329 |
Mycroft is great |
| 23:32 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
mycroft: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that |
| 23:32 |
Wuzzy |
Minecrosoft |
| 23:32 |
rubenwardy |
I'd probably base it on mycroft |
| 23:32 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
*forks mycroft's software* |
| 23:32 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Mycroft, sudo turn my lights off |
| 23:32 |
Wuzzy |
Minetestsoft |
| 23:32 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
mycroft: yest master |
| 23:32 |
rubenwardy |
you are not in the sudoers file. This incident shall be reported |
| 23:33 |
Wuzzy |
reported to the cyber police. |
| 23:33 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
reported to the nintendo police |
| 23:33 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
they're coming: WiiU WiiU WiiU |
| 23:35 |
Wuzzy |
don't get bitten by the nintendogs |
| 23:35 |
benrob0329 |
anyways that was my spuratic jumping into the conversation to give my 2 cents |
| 23:35 |
benrob0329 |
o/ |
| 23:36 |
|
Miner_48er joined #minetest |
| 23:36 |
orbea |
player_transfer_distance controls how far the player nametags are visible? |
| 23:37 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 23:38 |
orbea |
thanks |
| 23:39 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
Oh btw is it possible to add metadata to players? I was thinking about making my first mod be one where there's a disease that gets spread from one player to another if they get within 2 blocks from each other. So can you set "infected = true" on a player? |
| 23:39 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
And can I call this mod coronatest? |
| 23:39 |
rubenwardy |
!book metadata |
| 23:39 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Storage and Metadata - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/map/storage.html |
| 23:39 |
rubenwardy |
player:get_meta() |
| 23:39 |
Copenhagen_Bram2 |
oh neat |
