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06:33 |
AlexYst |
Does Minetest have any C in it, or only C++? Github is claiming in the language breakdown that 9.2% Minetest is written in regular C. |
06:33 |
AlexYst |
I mean, not that it actually matters. Who even cares what Github thinks. I'm just mildly curious. |
06:57 |
ANAND |
There's a sha256.c in src/util |
06:58 |
ANAND |
That certainly doesn't make up 9.2% of the whole repo all by itself though, hmm... |
06:59 |
ANAND |
Maybe all .h files are assumed to be C? |
07:04 |
wilkgr |
These are the files it assumes to be C: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=c |
07:05 |
wilkgr |
and these are the files it assumes to be C++: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=c%2B%2B |
07:06 |
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07:10 |
ANAND |
Ah, the embedded lua of course |
07:58 |
AlexYst |
Thanks wilkgr! I dind't know about that search option. |
07:58 |
AlexYst |
Oh, you're already gone. I was too late. |
08:09 |
AlexYst |
Okay, so I'm working with a super-legacy version of Minetest at the moment. I'm working on a huge project, and I want to add nodes with the feel of Minetest versions both old and new. Most of the things I'm adding will be made to fit in with 0.4.17, but some made to be reminiscent of older versions will be present too. Seven items will look like they belong in 0.4.0, so I've compiled 0.4.0 to play on and |
08:09 |
AlexYst |
get the feel of that era of the game. |
08:10 |
AlexYst |
I've got to bring my minestats mod back in time with me though, as my project depends on that mod heavily. So I'm needing to re-invent new features using 0.4.0's API so minestats will run. |
08:10 |
AlexYst |
I just found a hilarious quirk. |
08:11 |
AlexYst |
0.4.0 allowed you to look at the number of items in a stack (ItemStack:get_count()), but you can't change the number (there is no ItemStack:set_count()). |
08:12 |
AlexYst |
This'll be an interesting puzzle. I'll need to find a way to indirectly set the count. |
08:13 |
AlexYst |
Huh. Newer versions of minestats are palette-aware. I wonder if that code will effectively be commented out due to a lack of paletted nodes or if I'll need to build a workaround for that as well. |
08:14 |
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09:11 |
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09:27 |
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09:40 |
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09:44 |
air |
any authors of inventory nodes or transfer nodes interested in this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20624 |
10:08 |
rubenwardy |
IcyDiamond ° |
10:20 |
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12:53 |
yusf[m] |
air: I read the readme and I like the ambition but I'm wondering, how is it not https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png ? |
12:53 |
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12:58 |
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13:11 |
air |
yusf[m]: that is one way to look at it |
13:11 |
air |
but it is a better standard than the others :) |
13:12 |
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13:14 |
Krock |
each and every standard is better than all other |
13:17 |
air |
the others are controlled by the transfer nodes, this moves control to the inventory nodes |
13:18 |
Krock |
L40-L118 could be shortened with one local function and a loop to probably 15 lines |
13:20 |
air |
what? |
13:30 |
air |
and are there any API mods that dont provide any nodes or items? |
13:31 |
Krock |
https://pastebin.com/raw/iJZheLSH |
13:32 |
air |
won't that slow down the functions? |
13:32 |
Krock |
yes, there are vector libraries around |
13:32 |
Krock |
only a bit, due to initializing args, unpack and two string concat |
13:33 |
Krock |
but that's not a concern |
13:33 |
Krock |
Disclaimer: Untested. |
13:33 |
air |
performance is always a concern |
13:33 |
air |
and I meant API mods that do what this mod does |
13:33 |
Krock |
Do you plan to spam-call this a million times per server step? |
13:34 |
Krock |
just wondering |
13:35 |
air |
the wrappers are already more bloat than I would like |
13:35 |
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13:36 |
deltasquared |
ok, daft question time - if I do an async emerge of an area and pass some callback, will all LBMs of nodes in that area be processed before the callback is fired? |
13:37 |
deltasquared |
the idea was to load an area and get an LBM to flag certain nodes in that area, then check if any appeared in the callback. |
13:37 |
deltasquared |
without having to scan the entire area for said node, that is |
13:37 |
deltasquared |
(which I guess the engine does internally anyway, but why duplicate work?) |
13:37 |
air |
put a print in LBM and callback, see what order it happens |
13:38 |
deltasquared |
air: I guess I could do that, but I wanted to know if that ordering was guaranteed to be consistent or not |
13:38 |
deltasquared |
guess I'd have to go source diving again |
14:01 |
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14:08 |
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14:12 |
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14:13 |
notanewbie |
Hey guys |
14:13 |
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14:14 |
Krock |
hello |
14:14 |
notanewbie |
I've been browsing the forums recently, and I've noticed that there's been a lot of buzz surrounding Minetest 0.5, is that to be the next release? |
14:14 |
notanewbie |
Hey Krock |
14:14 |
Krock |
no, 0.5 won't be released |
14:15 |
Krock |
explanation: version scheme change to 5.0 |
14:15 |
notanewbie |
Makes sense |
14:15 |
notanewbie |
So there will be no Minetest 1? |
14:16 |
deltasquared |
how intriguing. I should read the news on MT more... I was out of the loop on that detail |
14:17 |
notanewbie |
Thanks for the update BTW |
14:17 |
notanewbie |
?? |
14:17 |
* twoelk |
still opposes the mega version jump :-D |
14:17 |
notanewbie |
? |
14:18 |
notanewbie |
Honestly we should progress towards version 1, IMO |
14:18 |
notanewbie |
But working with version numbers above 1 is better than working with version numbers below 1. |
14:19 |
twoelk |
unternull is a nice game though :-P |
14:19 |
Krock |
twoelk: needs some german knowledge to understand this pun |
14:19 |
notanewbie |
Here's the thing: Minetest game is boring and has no difficulty. |
14:20 |
notanewbie |
How long til mobs ship with the game? |
14:20 |
notanewbie |
I don't think we can entice Minecraft players to switch if the default game has no difficulty. |
14:20 |
twoelk |
minetest game is not supposed to be anywhere near all that minetest has to offer |
14:20 |
notanewbie |
The only way to die is to jump off a cliff or drown |
14:20 |
notanewbie |
twoelk: werd |
14:21 |
notanewbie |
But it shouldn't be on the other side of the planet |
14:21 |
notanewbie |
It should be enjoyable, with a sense of adventure. I don't get that from Minetest Game. |
14:22 |
twoelk |
search the games thread in forum or look here https://wiki.minetest.net/List_of_Games |
14:22 |
notanewbie |
That there is the problem. |
14:23 |
notanewbie |
We tell people to join Minetest and run out and get a bunch of stuff. |
14:23 |
deltasquared |
notanewbie: you feel the user should have a better out of the box experience I see? |
14:23 |
notanewbie |
Yes!!! |
14:23 |
deltasquared |
I have to admit I'm on the fence about this one |
14:23 |
twoelk |
in mt 000000000.5 you will be able to download games in the main menu |
14:23 |
notanewbie |
Really? |
14:24 |
notanewbie |
I sure hope so. |
14:24 |
notanewbie |
?? |
14:24 |
deltasquared |
twoelk: so like the server list? sounds cool |
14:24 |
notanewbie |
Yeah |
14:24 |
twoelk |
this will be part of main menu https://content.minetest.net/ |
14:24 |
deltasquared |
twoelk: should we call it MT 5.0E-9 and be done with it? sounds cooler like that too ;) |
14:26 |
deltasquared |
oh cool, IcyDiamond managed to pull through with the TC clone, nice to see |
14:26 |
hecks |
So why the version bloat? |
14:26 |
notanewbie |
?? |
14:26 |
notanewbie |
What he said |
14:26 |
hecks |
Don't tell me it's "because minekraft is on X.Y" |
14:27 |
notanewbie |
That's why I like jumping to 5 |
14:27 |
notanewbie |
Fewer syllables to pronounce ? |
14:27 |
notanewbie |
Minetest vs. Minecraft: |
14:27 |
notanewbie |
Minecraft: Batteries are included |
14:28 |
notanewbie |
Minetest: Batteries not included AND some assembly required |
14:28 |
hecks |
Inflating to 5.0 won't make it any less broken |
14:29 |
notanewbie |
But it's better from an optics perspective. And promotion. |
14:29 |
hecks |
also, I'm not sure if I'd want to attract the kind of people who don't want a 0.5, if I were the devs |
14:29 |
hecks |
unless they wanna be swamped with feature requests for things like |
14:29 |
hecks |
like |
14:29 |
hecks |
I'm not even gonna spell it out not to give them ideas |
14:30 |
notanewbie |
? |
14:30 |
deltasquared |
I'm a bit in the dark about this particular cryptic |
14:30 |
deltasquared |
whisper it to me |
14:30 |
* notanewbie |
whispers |
14:30 |
hecks |
no |
14:30 |
notanewbie |
? |
14:30 |
hecks |
some things are better left buried |
14:31 |
deltasquared |
dude I'm not gonna start endless feature requests promise :P |
14:31 |
twoelk |
mt is like a sack of lego - you can build any type of game you want. mc is like a doll you might find new clothes for but you are on your own fitting the arms back on that need to be taken of during the process |
14:31 |
notanewbie |
I am praying for the day when Minetest can be "get it and go" software. |
14:31 |
notanewbie |
That's not the best analogy |
14:32 |
hecks |
it is already get it and go, as far as servers are concerned |
14:32 |
twoelk |
make a better one :-D |
14:32 |
notanewbie |
True |
14:32 |
hecks |
the server is the game |
14:32 |
notanewbie |
Oh I see |
14:32 |
notanewbie |
But single player should be fun too |
14:32 |
notanewbie |
IMHO |
14:32 |
hecks |
take it up with minetest_game maintainers |
14:32 |
hecks |
I wash my hands of it |
14:32 |
notanewbie |
Nah, they won't listen to me |
14:33 |
deltasquared |
it is possible they don't have the time to direct to every suggestion however |
14:33 |
notanewbie |
Right |
14:33 |
notanewbie |
But all I want are mobs. |
14:33 |
twoelk |
code a convincing engine side mob-api and it will be in |
14:34 |
notanewbie |
Okay, I want weather too, but that's not as important. |
14:34 |
deltasquared |
a non-trivial addition. have you ever tried writing a decent mob AI? |
14:34 |
hecks |
https://a.uguu.se/zu3BZX1qYkF4_mibi.png I have |
14:34 |
deltasquared |
for a measuring stick, I don't consider mobs redo to be decent AI. |
14:34 |
twoelk |
see |
14:34 |
notanewbie |
twoelk: what? Why not include an existing mod and include it with the Minetest Game mods? |
14:34 |
twoelk |
has been done several times |
14:34 |
deltasquared |
twoelk: why's it gotta be engine side |
14:34 |
hecks |
because someone has to maintain it |
14:34 |
hecks |
also, some things are missing engine side for mobs |
14:35 |
notanewbie |
Aren't mods maintainable? |
14:35 |
deltasquared |
such as? (genuine curiosity) |
14:35 |
hecks |
there's no "spawn things dynamically as a mapblock is loaded" api |
14:35 |
hecks |
there's no api for unloading the very same objects |
14:35 |
hecks |
pathfinding sucks |
14:35 |
hecks |
that's off the top of my head |
14:35 |
notanewbie |
Aren't people working on that? |
14:35 |
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paramat joined #minetest |
14:35 |
notanewbie |
I thought I saw somebody working on better pathfinding |
14:35 |
hecks |
shrug |
14:35 |
twoelk |
see, lots of problems to be solved |
14:35 |
hecks |
I don't know |
14:35 |
hecks |
I guess some easier coroutine / async stuff would also be useful for mobs |
14:36 |
notanewbie |
The mobs that are out there aren't even bad |
14:36 |
hecks |
they're horrible |
14:36 |
notanewbie |
Not really |
14:36 |
notanewbie |
Not all of them |
14:36 |
notanewbie |
Simple mobs is fine |
14:36 |
deltasquared |
the elemental ones (stone/dirt/sand... where were they from) I like, it fits MT better |
14:36 |
deltasquared |
the animals... look, well, out of place |
14:36 |
notanewbie |
YEAH |
14:37 |
notanewbie |
True |
14:37 |
hecks |
anyway, there's no point to making good mobs if you can't make good combat |
14:37 |
notanewbie |
There are some great mob mods with just plain awful skins |
14:37 |
hecks |
as it stands, the engine is woefully lacking here |
14:37 |
notanewbie |
hecks: what do you mean, good combat |
14:37 |
deltasquared |
hecks: combat... hmm, care to give an example? |
14:37 |
deltasquared |
crits? enchantments? swing timing? |
14:38 |
hecks |
anything animation related |
14:38 |
twoelk |
and again a nice list to study https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs |
14:38 |
deltasquared |
hrm, I sorta agree on that one, but it's a little subjective |
14:38 |
hecks |
I'd like to do something more than WASD+M1 with a repeating "whack" animation of a wieldmodel |
14:38 |
deltasquared |
hecks: so wield animations |
14:38 |
hecks |
not just that |
14:38 |
hecks |
and I will do more, it's just that minetest isn't making it easy for me |
14:38 |
notanewbie |
Hmm |
14:39 |
notanewbie |
Wait, what do you do? |
14:39 |
hecks |
there's the problem of animation retriggering, animation sync, rollback, animation events |
14:39 |
notanewbie |
Yeah |
14:39 |
hecks |
locking a player during an animation, locking and modifying player physics in general |
14:39 |
hecks |
root motion |
14:39 |
paramat |
we're moving to 5.0.0 because: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6073#issuecomment-396188132 onwards. we're intentionally avoiding associations and expectations created by 1.0.0, and '1.0.0' as in 'complete, finished, released' is meaningless for MT anyway |
14:39 |
twoelk |
pfff |
14:39 |
hecks |
bone-to-bone parenting, anything-to-bone parenting that isn't screwed (already submitted the issue) |
14:40 |
deltasquared |
hecks: player physics, oof I feel that one. I have to resort to entity attachment to toss players |
14:40 |
hecks |
this engine has some really nice voxel and scripting and interactivity and simulation stuff |
14:40 |
hecks |
but it fails HARD with basic gameplay features |
14:41 |
twoelk |
so all a good mob should do according to heck is offer a good fight :-) |
14:41 |
twoelk |
minetest the monster-fighting simulater |
14:42 |
notanewbie |
Yeah |
14:42 |
notanewbie |
I guess |
14:42 |
notanewbie |
Which I'm not opposed to |
14:42 |
hecks |
https://a.uguu.se/eHzBiKSajoXI_wasd.gif |
14:42 |
twoelk |
actually in my mc years I always turned of the monsters |
14:43 |
notanewbie |
But that's not the #1 goal of mobs |
14:43 |
notanewbie |
hecks: so you won't be happy til we have T-Rated Japanese RPG |
14:44 |
notanewbie |
-style NPCs? |
14:44 |
notanewbie |
Nah |
14:44 |
notanewbie |
Doesn't fit MT OR MC |
14:44 |
twoelk |
I would rather have better npc |
14:44 |
notanewbie |
Me too |
14:44 |
hecks |
I won't be happy as long as I still have to do ugly hacks in order to do this: https://a.uguu.se/gf1bnIDQNL0g_retrigger.gif |
14:44 |
notanewbie |
And making it look, ahem, pretty, doesn't make it better |
14:44 |
hecks |
and what I put in my subgame is my business |
14:44 |
twoelk |
and neutral mobs moving in herds or flocks :-) |
14:45 |
notanewbie |
twoelk: yeah that sounds great |
14:45 |
notanewbie |
hecks: and dude that animation is INSANE |
14:45 |
notanewbie |
A little fast, but that was really cool. |
14:45 |
hecks |
I'm hitting the mob over and over |
14:45 |
hecks |
the point is, minetest will NOT let you do that normally |
14:46 |
notanewbie |
Hmm |
14:46 |
hecks |
no, I have to play a 1-frame "entry" animation or else it'll "cleverly" assume it's already playing this one, and will not restart it |
14:46 |
notanewbie |
I think animations aren't a huge deal ATM |
14:46 |
hecks |
even though it's not looping |
14:46 |
hecks |
as long as all you wanna do is play blocks with cross-eyed block characters, sure |
14:47 |
notanewbie |
They shouldn't be cross-eyed!!!! |
14:47 |
hecks |
I'm obviously referencing mein kraft here |
14:47 |
twoelk |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16557 more blocky design mobs |
14:47 |
paramat |
as for MTGame, optional mobs, weather, are intended and will probably happen, it's just a case of dev time. the MTG devs are swamped by huge amounts of other work. MTG has much improved recently but it takes time |
14:47 |
hecks |
the point is that minetest_game should not be the limit of the engine |
14:48 |
deltasquared |
hecks: oh I see, so you can't refire an animation if it's already running... hmm. a flag to ask for this behaviour (or rather not, because the default is API now) wouldn't seem too hard |
14:48 |
twoelk |
eh? |
14:48 |
notanewbie |
twoelk: that mod looks bad***, Imma download it when I get home |
14:48 |
hecks |
I won't be starting an issue for it, I'll just fix it myself if nobody else does |
14:49 |
twoelk |
no animation though |
14:49 |
notanewbie |
paramat: werd, can't deny the game hasn't gotten better! |
14:49 |
paramat |
MT makes it easy for people to make their own games, and we are asking for new games, so people can make them with what they feel is missing |
14:49 |
hecks |
or maybe it's another of those upstream bugs where irrlicht is broken and you're boned |
14:49 |
twoelk |
if anything, mt-game is designed as base |
14:49 |
hecks |
a base, but not a mandatory base |
14:49 |
twoelk |
it was never supposed to be complete |
14:49 |
notanewbie |
What if there was a menu to download new games? |
14:50 |
deltasquared |
there is going to be, apparently |
14:50 |
hecks |
isn't there one in the works? |
14:50 |
twoelk |
there is in mt-5 |
14:50 |
notanewbie |
Is there a Dev for it out |
14:50 |
notanewbie |
I wanna see this... |
14:50 |
twoelk |
? |
14:50 |
deltasquared |
dunno about compiled binaries for a dev version |
14:50 |
hecks |
https://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/ |
14:50 |
hecks |
knock yourselves out |
14:50 |
notanewbie |
Okay |
14:50 |
hecks |
real men build their own |
14:50 |
* notanewbie |
is AFK. Knocked self out |
14:51 |
twoelk |
https://content.minetest.net/ is the database to be included in mt-5 |
14:51 |
deltasquared |
instructions unclear, head impaled on bathroom cabinet |
14:52 |
hecks |
Will that database inherit the forum's "only free software" rule? |
14:53 |
twoelk |
sigh - you missed all the discussion? |
14:53 |
hecks |
I don't read forums |
14:53 |
* notanewbie |
has regained consciousness |
14:54 |
notanewbie |
twoelk: That DB looks pretty cool! |
14:57 |
twoelk |
this applies to mods anyways https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1271 |
14:58 |
hecks |
only for posting them, it's not like you're gonna come and beat me up if I don't release source |
14:58 |
notanewbie |
? |
14:58 |
hecks |
I'm pretty sure I won't be banned from the master server either, though let's not give anyone ideas |
14:58 |
notanewbie |
? |
14:58 |
hecks |
also, I don't see your cancerous emoji, so don't bother with those |
14:59 |
notanewbie |
Oh, okay. My bad |
14:59 |
notanewbie |
That's what I get for using an IRC client on Android |
14:59 |
hecks |
oh, I'm sure if I were really depraved, I could get those to render |
15:00 |
hecks |
I'm sure most people's systems do |
15:00 |
notanewbie |
Actually, probably not |
15:00 |
Krock |
��� ��� �� �� �� ���� ������� �������� |
15:00 |
hecks |
hopefully not, you mean |
15:00 |
notanewbie |
What the what did you enter??? |
15:01 |
notanewbie |
hecks: it's probably a 40/60 or 35/65 split rn |
15:01 |
Krock |
do you get it? :D |
15:01 |
hecks |
just a unicode exploit targeting android, better put your phone in the microwave right now |
15:01 |
notanewbie |
I doubt it |
15:01 |
Krock |
I only use microwaves for sending stuff back to the past |
15:01 |
notanewbie |
My phone woulda crashed by now |
15:02 |
hecks |
put it in anyway, it'll make it run faster |
15:02 |
hecks |
trust me i'm a programmer |
15:02 |
deltasquared |
it'll excite the electrons! :P |
15:02 |
notanewbie |
You guys are ridiculous |
15:03 |
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15:04 |
Krock |
1970: I'm sure in 2016 there will be flying cars |
15:04 |
Krock |
2016: "Microwaving A Microwave Microwaving A Toaster" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntlG5XgYg4k |
15:05 |
Krock |
actually wanted to link the professional made "iPhone made out of sand using a microwave" video but can't find it right now |
15:05 |
notanewbie |
I predict that Donald Trump will win the 2016 election. |
15:05 |
notanewbie |
After that, Obama will win in 2012. |
15:05 |
Krock |
pastdict is the correct word |
15:06 |
deltasquared |
Krock: postdict? |
15:06 |
deltasquared |
as opposed to pre-dict |
15:06 |
Krock |
yes. post. typo. |
15:08 |
deltasquared |
I wonder what it would take in the engine to be able to nudge objects and such by walking into them. |
15:09 |
deltasquared |
I guess rn there must be some bounding box collision detection, but it's not exposed. |
15:10 |
twoelk |
ask paramat to add bumper car pysics to his powerslide mod |
15:10 |
deltasquared |
!mod powerslide |
15:10 |
MinetestBot |
deltasquared: Could not find anything. |
15:10 |
deltasquared |
twoelk: pointer please? ^ |
15:11 |
deltasquared |
inb4 modpack |
15:11 |
deltasquared |
google gives me... nothing. |
15:11 |
deltasquared |
literally no results. welp |
15:12 |
hecks |
it would take nothing to do that |
15:12 |
hecks |
just check aabb and modify velocity, what's the issue? |
15:12 |
twoelk |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20619 driftcar it was |
15:14 |
Krock |
!mod also finds modpacks, games and CSMs if the forum titles are formatted correctly |
15:15 |
twoelk |
!mod driftcar ? |
15:15 |
MinetestBot |
twoelk: Could not find anything. |
15:16 |
twoelk |
hmm |
15:16 |
twoelk |
!mod driftcar |
15:16 |
MinetestBot |
twoelk: Could not find anything. |
15:17 |
twoelk |
might be too new .-P |
15:17 |
twoelk |
!mod airboat |
15:17 |
MinetestBot |
twoelk: Small airship vehicle [airboat] by paramat - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20485 |
15:18 |
notanewbie |
Looks insane |
15:18 |
paramat |
"I only use microwaves for sending stuff back to the past" =) i love that too |
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15:21 |
twoelk |
a remake of the old ms hover demogame in mt ought to be fun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hover! |
15:23 |
Krock |
twoelk: sounds familiar. any chance that it was contained on a W95 CD as demo version? |
15:23 |
twoelk |
it was |
15:23 |
Krock |
paramat: actually it's not my idea but it's funny and interesting altogether |
15:24 |
twoelk |
browser versio http://www.hover.ie/ |
15:24 |
twoelk |
+n |
15:25 |
deltasquared |
yay webgl |
15:25 |
Krock |
til windows.net is a thing |
15:27 |
deltasquared |
these controls remind me of the bloody recognizers in tron 2.0 for the GBA... ooeck. that drifting |
15:28 |
deltasquared |
heh, making that as an MT mod might be pretty fun actually |
15:29 |
deltasquared |
anyways, IRL things to attend. |
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paramat |
Krock i mean i'm a stein's gate fan |
15:37 |
Krock |
Yay! Found another fellow :D |
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