Time Nick Message 06:33 AlexYst Does Minetest have any C in it, or only C++? Github is claiming in the language breakdown that 9.2% Minetest is written in regular C. 06:33 AlexYst I mean, not that it actually matters. Who even cares what Github thinks. I'm just mildly curious. 06:57 ANAND There's a sha256.c in src/util 06:58 ANAND That certainly doesn't make up 9.2% of the whole repo all by itself though, hmm... 06:59 ANAND Maybe all .h files are assumed to be C? 07:04 wilkgr These are the files it assumes to be C: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=c 07:05 wilkgr and these are the files it assumes to be C++: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=c%2B%2B 07:10 ANAND Ah, the embedded lua of course 07:58 AlexYst Thanks wilkgr! I dind't know about that search option. 07:58 AlexYst Oh, you're already gone. I was too late. 08:09 AlexYst Okay, so I'm working with a super-legacy version of Minetest at the moment. I'm working on a huge project, and I want to add nodes with the feel of Minetest versions both old and new. Most of the things I'm adding will be made to fit in with 0.4.17, but some made to be reminiscent of older versions will be present too. Seven items will look like they belong in 0.4.0, so I've compiled 0.4.0 to play on and 08:09 AlexYst get the feel of that era of the game. 08:10 AlexYst I've got to bring my minestats mod back in time with me though, as my project depends on that mod heavily. So I'm needing to re-invent new features using 0.4.0's API so minestats will run. 08:10 AlexYst I just found a hilarious quirk. 08:11 AlexYst 0.4.0 allowed you to look at the number of items in a stack (ItemStack:get_count()), but you can't change the number (there is no ItemStack:set_count()). 08:12 AlexYst This'll be an interesting puzzle. I'll need to find a way to indirectly set the count. 08:13 AlexYst Huh. Newer versions of minestats are palette-aware. I wonder if that code will effectively be commented out due to a lack of paletted nodes or if I'll need to build a workaround for that as well. 09:44 air any authors of inventory nodes or transfer nodes interested in this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20624 10:08 rubenwardy IcyDiamond ° 12:53 yusf[m] air: I read the readme and I like the ambition but I'm wondering, how is it not https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png ? 13:11 air yusf[m]: that is one way to look at it 13:11 air but it is a better standard than the others :) 13:14 Krock each and every standard is better than all other 13:17 air the others are controlled by the transfer nodes, this moves control to the inventory nodes 13:18 Krock L40-L118 could be shortened with one local function and a loop to probably 15 lines 13:20 air what? 13:30 air and are there any API mods that dont provide any nodes or items? 13:31 Krock https://pastebin.com/raw/iJZheLSH 13:32 air won't that slow down the functions? 13:32 Krock yes, there are vector libraries around 13:32 Krock only a bit, due to initializing args, unpack and two string concat 13:33 Krock but that's not a concern 13:33 Krock Disclaimer: Untested. 13:33 air performance is always a concern 13:33 air and I meant API mods that do what this mod does 13:33 Krock Do you plan to spam-call this a million times per server step? 13:34 Krock just wondering 13:35 air the wrappers are already more bloat than I would like 13:36 deltasquared ok, daft question time - if I do an async emerge of an area and pass some callback, will all LBMs of nodes in that area be processed before the callback is fired? 13:37 deltasquared the idea was to load an area and get an LBM to flag certain nodes in that area, then check if any appeared in the callback. 13:37 deltasquared without having to scan the entire area for said node, that is 13:37 deltasquared (which I guess the engine does internally anyway, but why duplicate work?) 13:37 air put a print in LBM and callback, see what order it happens 13:38 deltasquared air: I guess I could do that, but I wanted to know if that ordering was guaranteed to be consistent or not 13:38 deltasquared guess I'd have to go source diving again 14:13 notanewbie Hey guys 14:14 Krock hello 14:14 notanewbie I've been browsing the forums recently, and I've noticed that there's been a lot of buzz surrounding Minetest 0.5, is that to be the next release? 14:14 notanewbie Hey Krock 14:14 Krock no, 0.5 won't be released 14:15 Krock explanation: version scheme change to 5.0 14:15 notanewbie Makes sense 14:15 notanewbie So there will be no Minetest 1? 14:16 deltasquared how intriguing. I should read the news on MT more... I was out of the loop on that detail 14:17 notanewbie Thanks for the update BTW 14:17 notanewbie ?? 14:17 * twoelk still opposes the mega version jump :-D 14:17 notanewbie ? 14:18 notanewbie Honestly we should progress towards version 1, IMO 14:18 notanewbie But working with version numbers above 1 is better than working with version numbers below 1. 14:19 twoelk unternull is a nice game though :-P 14:19 Krock twoelk: needs some german knowledge to understand this pun 14:19 notanewbie Here's the thing: Minetest game is boring and has no difficulty. 14:20 notanewbie How long til mobs ship with the game? 14:20 notanewbie I don't think we can entice Minecraft players to switch if the default game has no difficulty. 14:20 twoelk minetest game is not supposed to be anywhere near all that minetest has to offer 14:20 notanewbie The only way to die is to jump off a cliff or drown 14:20 notanewbie twoelk: werd 14:21 notanewbie But it shouldn't be on the other side of the planet 14:21 notanewbie It should be enjoyable, with a sense of adventure. I don't get that from Minetest Game. 14:22 twoelk search the games thread in forum or look here https://wiki.minetest.net/List_of_Games 14:22 notanewbie That there is the problem. 14:23 notanewbie We tell people to join Minetest and run out and get a bunch of stuff. 14:23 deltasquared notanewbie: you feel the user should have a better out of the box experience I see? 14:23 notanewbie Yes!!! 14:23 deltasquared I have to admit I'm on the fence about this one 14:23 twoelk in mt 000000000.5 you will be able to download games in the main menu 14:23 notanewbie Really? 14:24 notanewbie I sure hope so. 14:24 notanewbie ?? 14:24 deltasquared twoelk: so like the server list? sounds cool 14:24 notanewbie Yeah 14:24 twoelk this will be part of main menu https://content.minetest.net/ 14:24 deltasquared twoelk: should we call it MT 5.0E-9 and be done with it? sounds cooler like that too ;) 14:26 deltasquared oh cool, IcyDiamond managed to pull through with the TC clone, nice to see 14:26 hecks So why the version bloat? 14:26 notanewbie ?? 14:26 notanewbie What he said 14:26 hecks Don't tell me it's "because minekraft is on X.Y" 14:27 notanewbie That's why I like jumping to 5 14:27 notanewbie Fewer syllables to pronounce ? 14:27 notanewbie Minetest vs. Minecraft: 14:27 notanewbie Minecraft: Batteries are included 14:28 notanewbie Minetest: Batteries not included AND some assembly required 14:28 hecks Inflating to 5.0 won't make it any less broken 14:29 notanewbie But it's better from an optics perspective. And promotion. 14:29 hecks also, I'm not sure if I'd want to attract the kind of people who don't want a 0.5, if I were the devs 14:29 hecks unless they wanna be swamped with feature requests for things like 14:29 hecks like 14:29 hecks I'm not even gonna spell it out not to give them ideas 14:30 notanewbie ? 14:30 deltasquared I'm a bit in the dark about this particular cryptic 14:30 deltasquared whisper it to me 14:30 * notanewbie whispers 14:30 hecks no 14:30 notanewbie ? 14:30 hecks some things are better left buried 14:31 deltasquared dude I'm not gonna start endless feature requests promise :P 14:31 twoelk mt is like a sack of lego - you can build any type of game you want. mc is like a doll you might find new clothes for but you are on your own fitting the arms back on that need to be taken of during the process 14:31 notanewbie I am praying for the day when Minetest can be "get it and go" software. 14:31 notanewbie That's not the best analogy 14:32 hecks it is already get it and go, as far as servers are concerned 14:32 twoelk make a better one :-D 14:32 notanewbie True 14:32 hecks the server is the game 14:32 notanewbie Oh I see 14:32 notanewbie But single player should be fun too 14:32 notanewbie IMHO 14:32 hecks take it up with minetest_game maintainers 14:32 hecks I wash my hands of it 14:32 notanewbie Nah, they won't listen to me 14:33 deltasquared it is possible they don't have the time to direct to every suggestion however 14:33 notanewbie Right 14:33 notanewbie But all I want are mobs. 14:33 twoelk code a convincing engine side mob-api and it will be in 14:34 notanewbie Okay, I want weather too, but that's not as important. 14:34 deltasquared a non-trivial addition. have you ever tried writing a decent mob AI? 14:34 hecks https://a.uguu.se/zu3BZX1qYkF4_mibi.png I have 14:34 deltasquared for a measuring stick, I don't consider mobs redo to be decent AI. 14:34 twoelk see 14:34 notanewbie twoelk: what? Why not include an existing mod and include it with the Minetest Game mods? 14:34 twoelk has been done several times 14:34 deltasquared twoelk: why's it gotta be engine side 14:34 hecks because someone has to maintain it 14:34 hecks also, some things are missing engine side for mobs 14:35 notanewbie Aren't mods maintainable? 14:35 deltasquared such as? (genuine curiosity) 14:35 hecks there's no "spawn things dynamically as a mapblock is loaded" api 14:35 hecks there's no api for unloading the very same objects 14:35 hecks pathfinding sucks 14:35 hecks that's off the top of my head 14:35 notanewbie Aren't people working on that? 14:35 notanewbie I thought I saw somebody working on better pathfinding 14:35 hecks shrug 14:35 twoelk see, lots of problems to be solved 14:35 hecks I don't know 14:35 hecks I guess some easier coroutine / async stuff would also be useful for mobs 14:36 notanewbie The mobs that are out there aren't even bad 14:36 hecks they're horrible 14:36 notanewbie Not really 14:36 notanewbie Not all of them 14:36 notanewbie Simple mobs is fine 14:36 deltasquared the elemental ones (stone/dirt/sand... where were they from) I like, it fits MT better 14:36 deltasquared the animals... look, well, out of place 14:36 notanewbie YEAH 14:37 notanewbie True 14:37 hecks anyway, there's no point to making good mobs if you can't make good combat 14:37 notanewbie There are some great mob mods with just plain awful skins 14:37 hecks as it stands, the engine is woefully lacking here 14:37 notanewbie hecks: what do you mean, good combat 14:37 deltasquared hecks: combat... hmm, care to give an example? 14:37 deltasquared crits? enchantments? swing timing? 14:38 hecks anything animation related 14:38 twoelk and again a nice list to study https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs 14:38 deltasquared hrm, I sorta agree on that one, but it's a little subjective 14:38 hecks I'd like to do something more than WASD+M1 with a repeating "whack" animation of a wieldmodel 14:38 deltasquared hecks: so wield animations 14:38 hecks not just that 14:38 hecks and I will do more, it's just that minetest isn't making it easy for me 14:38 notanewbie Hmm 14:39 notanewbie Wait, what do you do? 14:39 hecks there's the problem of animation retriggering, animation sync, rollback, animation events 14:39 notanewbie Yeah 14:39 hecks locking a player during an animation, locking and modifying player physics in general 14:39 hecks root motion 14:39 paramat we're moving to 5.0.0 because: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6073#issuecomment-396188132 onwards. we're intentionally avoiding associations and expectations created by 1.0.0, and '1.0.0' as in 'complete, finished, released' is meaningless for MT anyway 14:39 twoelk pfff 14:39 hecks bone-to-bone parenting, anything-to-bone parenting that isn't screwed (already submitted the issue) 14:40 deltasquared hecks: player physics, oof I feel that one. I have to resort to entity attachment to toss players 14:40 hecks this engine has some really nice voxel and scripting and interactivity and simulation stuff 14:40 hecks but it fails HARD with basic gameplay features 14:41 twoelk so all a good mob should do according to heck is offer a good fight :-) 14:41 twoelk minetest the monster-fighting simulater 14:42 notanewbie Yeah 14:42 notanewbie I guess 14:42 notanewbie Which I'm not opposed to 14:42 hecks https://a.uguu.se/eHzBiKSajoXI_wasd.gif 14:42 twoelk actually in my mc years I always turned of the monsters 14:43 notanewbie But that's not the #1 goal of mobs 14:43 notanewbie hecks: so you won't be happy til we have T-Rated Japanese RPG 14:44 notanewbie -style NPCs? 14:44 notanewbie Nah 14:44 notanewbie Doesn't fit MT OR MC 14:44 twoelk I would rather have better npc 14:44 notanewbie Me too 14:44 hecks I won't be happy as long as I still have to do ugly hacks in order to do this: https://a.uguu.se/gf1bnIDQNL0g_retrigger.gif 14:44 notanewbie And making it look, ahem, pretty, doesn't make it better 14:44 hecks and what I put in my subgame is my business 14:44 twoelk and neutral mobs moving in herds or flocks :-) 14:45 notanewbie twoelk: yeah that sounds great 14:45 notanewbie hecks: and dude that animation is INSANE 14:45 notanewbie A little fast, but that was really cool. 14:45 hecks I'm hitting the mob over and over 14:45 hecks the point is, minetest will NOT let you do that normally 14:46 notanewbie Hmm 14:46 hecks no, I have to play a 1-frame "entry" animation or else it'll "cleverly" assume it's already playing this one, and will not restart it 14:46 notanewbie I think animations aren't a huge deal ATM 14:46 hecks even though it's not looping 14:46 hecks as long as all you wanna do is play blocks with cross-eyed block characters, sure 14:47 notanewbie They shouldn't be cross-eyed!!!! 14:47 hecks I'm obviously referencing mein kraft here 14:47 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16557 more blocky design mobs 14:47 paramat as for MTGame, optional mobs, weather, are intended and will probably happen, it's just a case of dev time. the MTG devs are swamped by huge amounts of other work. MTG has much improved recently but it takes time 14:47 hecks the point is that minetest_game should not be the limit of the engine 14:48 deltasquared hecks: oh I see, so you can't refire an animation if it's already running... hmm. a flag to ask for this behaviour (or rather not, because the default is API now) wouldn't seem too hard 14:48 twoelk eh? 14:48 notanewbie twoelk: that mod looks bad***, Imma download it when I get home 14:48 hecks I won't be starting an issue for it, I'll just fix it myself if nobody else does 14:49 twoelk no animation though 14:49 notanewbie paramat: werd, can't deny the game hasn't gotten better! 14:49 paramat MT makes it easy for people to make their own games, and we are asking for new games, so people can make them with what they feel is missing 14:49 hecks or maybe it's another of those upstream bugs where irrlicht is broken and you're boned 14:49 twoelk if anything, mt-game is designed as base 14:49 hecks a base, but not a mandatory base 14:49 twoelk it was never supposed to be complete 14:49 notanewbie What if there was a menu to download new games? 14:50 deltasquared there is going to be, apparently 14:50 hecks isn't there one in the works? 14:50 twoelk there is in mt-5 14:50 notanewbie Is there a Dev for it out 14:50 notanewbie I wanna see this... 14:50 twoelk ? 14:50 deltasquared dunno about compiled binaries for a dev version 14:50 hecks https://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/ 14:50 hecks knock yourselves out 14:50 notanewbie Okay 14:50 hecks real men build their own 14:50 * notanewbie is AFK. Knocked self out 14:51 twoelk https://content.minetest.net/ is the database to be included in mt-5 14:51 deltasquared instructions unclear, head impaled on bathroom cabinet 14:52 hecks Will that database inherit the forum's "only free software" rule? 14:53 twoelk sigh - you missed all the discussion? 14:53 hecks I don't read forums 14:53 * notanewbie has regained consciousness 14:54 notanewbie twoelk: That DB looks pretty cool! 14:57 twoelk this applies to mods anyways https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1271 14:58 hecks only for posting them, it's not like you're gonna come and beat me up if I don't release source 14:58 notanewbie ? 14:58 hecks I'm pretty sure I won't be banned from the master server either, though let's not give anyone ideas 14:58 notanewbie ? 14:58 hecks also, I don't see your cancerous emoji, so don't bother with those 14:59 notanewbie Oh, okay. My bad 14:59 notanewbie That's what I get for using an IRC client on Android 14:59 hecks oh, I'm sure if I were really depraved, I could get those to render 15:00 hecks I'm sure most people's systems do 15:00 notanewbie Actually, probably not 15:00 Krock ��� ��� �� �� �� ���� ������� �������� 15:00 hecks hopefully not, you mean 15:00 notanewbie What the what did you enter??? 15:01 notanewbie hecks: it's probably a 40/60 or 35/65 split rn 15:01 Krock do you get it? :D 15:01 hecks just a unicode exploit targeting android, better put your phone in the microwave right now 15:01 notanewbie I doubt it 15:01 Krock I only use microwaves for sending stuff back to the past 15:01 notanewbie My phone woulda crashed by now 15:02 hecks put it in anyway, it'll make it run faster 15:02 hecks trust me i'm a programmer 15:02 deltasquared it'll excite the electrons! :P 15:02 notanewbie You guys are ridiculous 15:04 Krock 1970: I'm sure in 2016 there will be flying cars 15:04 Krock 2016: "Microwaving A Microwave Microwaving A Toaster" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntlG5XgYg4k 15:05 Krock actually wanted to link the professional made "iPhone made out of sand using a microwave" video but can't find it right now 15:05 notanewbie I predict that Donald Trump will win the 2016 election. 15:05 notanewbie After that, Obama will win in 2012. 15:05 Krock pastdict is the correct word 15:06 deltasquared Krock: postdict? 15:06 deltasquared as opposed to pre-dict 15:06 Krock yes. post. typo. 15:08 deltasquared I wonder what it would take in the engine to be able to nudge objects and such by walking into them. 15:09 deltasquared I guess rn there must be some bounding box collision detection, but it's not exposed. 15:10 twoelk ask paramat to add bumper car pysics to his powerslide mod 15:10 deltasquared !mod powerslide 15:10 MinetestBot deltasquared: Could not find anything. 15:10 deltasquared twoelk: pointer please? ^ 15:11 deltasquared inb4 modpack 15:11 deltasquared google gives me... nothing. 15:11 deltasquared literally no results. welp 15:12 hecks it would take nothing to do that 15:12 hecks just check aabb and modify velocity, what's the issue? 15:12 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20619 driftcar it was 15:14 Krock !mod also finds modpacks, games and CSMs if the forum titles are formatted correctly 15:15 twoelk !mod driftcar ? 15:15 MinetestBot twoelk: Could not find anything. 15:16 twoelk hmm 15:16 twoelk !mod driftcar 15:16 MinetestBot twoelk: Could not find anything. 15:17 twoelk might be too new .-P 15:17 twoelk !mod airboat 15:17 MinetestBot twoelk: Small airship vehicle [airboat] by paramat - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20485 15:18 notanewbie Looks insane 15:18 paramat "I only use microwaves for sending stuff back to the past" =) i love that too 15:21 twoelk a remake of the old ms hover demogame in mt ought to be fun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hover! 15:23 Krock twoelk: sounds familiar. any chance that it was contained on a W95 CD as demo version? 15:23 twoelk it was 15:23 Krock paramat: actually it's not my idea but it's funny and interesting altogether 15:24 twoelk browser versio http://www.hover.ie/ 15:24 twoelk +n 15:25 deltasquared yay webgl 15:25 Krock til windows.net is a thing 15:27 deltasquared these controls remind me of the bloody recognizers in tron 2.0 for the GBA... ooeck. that drifting 15:28 deltasquared heh, making that as an MT mod might be pretty fun actually 15:29 deltasquared anyways, IRL things to attend. 15:36 paramat Krock i mean i'm a stein's gate fan 15:37 Krock Yay! Found another fellow :D