IRC log for #minetest, 2018-04-03

Time	Nick	Message
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01:17	rdococ	I'm working on a mod that rotates certain naturally generated nodes e.g. dirt_with_grass to make them appear more natural and less tiled
01:17	rdococ	I just converted it to VoxelManip and it worked first try! yay!
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06:26	MinetestBot	[git] numberZero -> minetest/minetest: Optimize entity-entity collision (#6587) 528908a https://git.io/vxPGI (2018-04-03T06:23:46Z)
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07:01	juli	hi does anyone know whether i can generate an l-system tree inside an other material then "air"
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07:10	IcyDiamond	oh cool we're down to 78 PRs already
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08:11	juli	is it possible to generate an l-system tree inside an other material then "air"
08:11	juli	sorry i timed out after asking the question the first time ...
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09:16	MinetestBot	[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Selected ItemStack: Reduce black magic (#6520) baca933 https://git.io/vxPz7 (2018-04-03T09:15:58Z)
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11:10	IcyDiamond	can you override the tooltip used in inventories somehow
11:13	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: you mean custom tooltip text when you hover on an item?
11:13	deltasquared	I don't know of such, but I hella want it to be a thing
11:13	IcyDiamond	yeah
11:14	IcyDiamond	would be nice if you could give it a texture and put colored text on it too
11:14	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: oh man, the beginnings of a full enchantment system
11:14	IcyDiamond	:D
11:14	deltasquared	we already have tool capability overrides in -dev so
11:15	deltasquared	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5848 also
11:15	IcyDiamond	!title
11:15	MinetestBot	IcyDiamond: Tooltips: Unify the tooltip[] and list[] description tooltip display functions by SmallJoker Â· Pull Request #5848 Â· minetest/minetest Â· GitHub
11:15	deltasquared	not sure if this is on the item though
11:15	deltasquared	it looks like it may be controlled by the formspec
11:15	IcyDiamond	interesting
11:16	deltasquared	granted, if you could live with a special "upgrade" formspec where the backing logic read special itemstack properties, then sure
11:17	deltasquared	"diamond pickaxe +1 speed"
11:18	IcyDiamond	i want to create a system similar to tinkers construct
11:18	IcyDiamond	kind of hard to do atm
11:19	IcyDiamond	xD
11:20	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: mock horror you stole my idea! :P
11:20	deltasquared	nah jk I'm fine with it
11:20	deltasquared	but yeah that's precisely what I wanted to go after
11:21	IcyDiamond	it would appear that you have to register a tool for every single combination right now
11:21	IcyDiamond	unless you can change inventory image without registering
11:22	IcyDiamond	but as far as i know, none of the params in *def can be modified
11:22	IcyDiamond	which sucks
11:22	IcyDiamond	can't be modified per item is what i mean
11:23	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: you can do per-itemstack capability overrides but there would be no visual way to distinguish them.
11:23	deltasquared	checks for docs
11:25	deltasquared	argh, where the hay has that gone
11:27	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: found it, itemstack_meta:set_tool_capabilities() https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a637107a4e81be88938d68df4deae50e68cf2cd8
11:27	IcyDiamond	nice
11:27	IcyDiamond	however i wish there was a way to set texture
11:27	IcyDiamond	for a specific tool
11:27	IcyDiamond	instead of registering a new one or overriding
11:28	IcyDiamond	there is already texture combining which is awesome for doing something similar to tc
11:29	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: hmm yeah, for TC-esque combinations you'd need a base tool that could dynamically overlay different part textures (handles, heads etc.)
11:29	IcyDiamond	yes
11:29	deltasquared	and dynamic setting of the tooltip, or at least the display name
11:29	IcyDiamond	i think you can change that
11:29	IcyDiamond	no?
11:29	* deltasquared	fondly remembers the "RedRedRed pickaxe" from TC's precursor, infinicraft
11:30	deltasquared	MeseMeseMese pickaxe anyone?
11:30	IcyDiamond	xD
11:31	deltasquared	I'ma going to go play around with set_tool_capabilities() myself actually
11:31	IcyDiamond	cool
11:31	deltasquared	luacmd remains an essential godsend
11:32	IcyDiamond	huh?
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11:34	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: like for playing around with stuff like this
11:34	IcyDiamond	whats that?
11:34	deltasquared	what, luacmd?
11:34	IcyDiamond	ye
11:34	deltasquared	!mod luacmd
11:34	MinetestBot	deltasquared: LuaCmd [luacmd] by prestidigitator - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9671
11:34	deltasquared	tl;dr run lua fragments interactively in-game
11:34	IcyDiamond	ooh
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11:35	IcyDiamond	Latest commit 63d0d60 on Jul 5, 2014
11:35	IcyDiamond	oof
11:35	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: it isn't the kind of thing that changes often
11:35	deltasquared	the basic idea of register_chatcommand etc. hasn't varied much at all
11:36	IcyDiamond	:P
11:36	deltasquared	needless to say, one does not lightly /grant $player lua
11:36	IcyDiamond	:D
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11:39	deltasquared	huh, where did get_wielded_item() get to
11:39	deltasquared	oh, oops. there it is
11:39	deltasquared	interesting that this would be a method on a plain objectref
11:40	IcyDiamond	lol
11:41	rubenwardy	IcyDiamond, deltasquared: use the description key in stack meta to change the tool tip
11:41	rubenwardy	This is in 0.4.16
11:41	* rubenwardy	added it
11:41	IcyDiamond	how about inventory image
11:41	deltasquared	rubenwardy: oooooh I'll try that
11:42	rubenwardy	Tool capabilities is only in 0.5.0, and needed the work done with custom tooltips to be possible
11:42	rubenwardy	Inventory image isn't possible yet, but wouldn't be hard to do
11:42	IcyDiamond	please do it
11:42	IcyDiamond	i beg you
11:42	rubenwardy	:D
11:42	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: file a feature request! :P
11:42	IcyDiamond	is it not already?
11:42	deltasquared	if there isn't one already... I didn't look extensively
11:43	rubenwardy	There will be one
11:43	deltasquared	rubenwardy: you are correct, I now have a diamond shovel called "lel"
11:43	IcyDiamond	it didnt work for me
11:43	IcyDiamond	im in 0.5.0
11:43	rubenwardy	IcyDiamond: it's in 0.4.16
11:44	IcyDiamond	how about 0.5?
11:44	rubenwardy	yep
11:44	rubenwardy	are you actually setting the stack?
11:44	rubenwardy	stacks aren't by reference
11:45	IcyDiamond	ahh okay
11:45	IcyDiamond	cool
11:45	rubenwardy	so you need to either return the item stack if the function supports ie
11:46	rubenwardy	*it
11:46	rubenwardy	or do set_stack
11:46	rubenwardy	well, requires not supports
11:46	deltasquared	yeah, the "itemstacks are by value" thing caught me off guard a couple times
11:47	IcyDiamond	is there no feature request for setting inventory image in meta?
11:47	IcyDiamond	should i make one then?
11:47	rubenwardy	there definitely will be
11:47	rubenwardy	!title https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5686
11:47	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: Itemstack Metadata; texture_string Â· Issue #5686 Â· minetest/minetest Â· GitHub
11:48	IcyDiamond	oh ok
11:48	IcyDiamond	"Beginner Friendly"?
11:48	rubenwardy	lol
11:48	rubenwardy	it is
11:48	IcyDiamond	i doubt i could do it
11:48	rubenwardy	it only requires modifying guiFormspecMenu.cpp
11:48	IcyDiamond	my C++ sucks
11:48	rubenwardy	you need to look for where it draws iventory lists
11:49	rubenwardy	then also check meta instead of just the definition
11:50	IcyDiamond	aw i cant fork multiple times
11:50	IcyDiamond	my fork of minetest is spheretest
11:50	IcyDiamond	dammit
11:50	IcyDiamond	can i un-fork somehow
11:50	IcyDiamond	XD
11:50	rubenwardy	sure you can
11:50	rubenwardy	I think
11:50	rubenwardy	you can fork to dheh
11:50	rubenwardy	heh
11:50	rubenwardy	branches? XD
11:51	IcyDiamond	hm i guess
11:51	IcyDiamond	idk lol
11:53	deltasquared	rubenwardy: right, so where it draws inventory lists, I would assume it would be like "for each slot: look up item in slot; blit item texture to slot position; end"
11:53	IcyDiamond	i guess i have to duplicate this repo
11:53	deltasquared	(I haven't looked at source code yet)
11:53	rubenwardy	yes
11:53	rubenwardy	ther's a function that does that
11:53	rubenwardy	so you need to find where it gets the inventory_image from the def
11:53	rubenwardy	and then read from meta data first
11:53	deltasquared	to allow for composing textures, you'd a) have to check for the existance of the special item property, then b) modify the draw function to draw each texture over the previous one in order
11:55	deltasquared	hmm, maybe I should get on with my actual work for the day, because I can see the logical procedure for doing this so clearly it's too tempting to not do right now
11:57	deltasquared	side note, while playing around with the group caps thing, it'd be really handy if I could lower my player's "minimum time between node digs" thing
11:57	deltasquared	(without specifying it in the node, I mean.)
11:58	IcyDiamond	ok i did some repository fuckery and i got a non-fork repo of the spheretest port
11:58	IcyDiamond	lol
11:58	IcyDiamond	now i can fork minetest
11:58	IcyDiamond	XD
12:00	IcyDiamond	I literally have 4 copies of minetest on my computer
12:00	IcyDiamond	help
12:07	rubenwardy	lol
12:07	rubenwardy	IcyDiamond: one of us!
12:07	IcyDiamond	:D
12:11	IcyDiamond	yeah i am too stupid for this
12:11	IcyDiamond	inventory_texture is part of ClientCached, how would i override that with a meta?
12:12	IcyDiamond	yeah ill leave this to someone else
12:12	IcyDiamond	XD
12:13	rubenwardy	new chapter: https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/chapters/common_mistakes.html
12:13	Krock	just tested a few 0.5.0-dev servers and it's amazing how many of them aren't fully compatible with master i.e. outdated
12:13	IcyDiamond	:P
12:14	Krock	rubenwardy, how about if test = "yes" then return true end ?
12:14	rubenwardy	lol
12:14	rubenwardy	doesn't happen in lua
12:14	rubenwardy	that won't compile
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12:17	Krock	oh nice, it really throws an error :)
12:20	rubenwardy	I should add "not knowing lua" to that chapter
12:23	IcyDiamond	lol
12:25	sfan5	"Unlike most of the rest of the API, stacks work on a copy of the data rather than the stack in the inventory."
12:25	sfan5	hmmm
12:26	sfan5	not very accurate if you ask me, e.g. nodes are also copies
12:26	sfan5	the only exception I can think of is getting meta at a pos
12:27	rubenwardy	And inventories
12:27	rubenwardy	Also nodes aren't references, they're tables
12:28	sfan5	yes
12:28	sfan5	but the "if you change it without setting it back, it won't change ingame" behaviour matches
12:28	rubenwardy	I guess there's a distinction between a plain userdata and a Ref
12:31	IcyDiamond	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5686 how exactly is this beginner friendly
12:31	IcyDiamond	i find it extremely unfriendly
12:32	IcyDiamond	the way images are created and cached is way too difficult to change for a beginner
12:32	IcyDiamond	xD
12:41	deltasquared	wait, image caching? o.o
12:41	Krock	media caching to keep it general
12:42	IcyDiamond	ClientCached
12:42	IcyDiamond	getInventoryTexture takes it from ClientCached
12:42	deltasquared	> LunaSquee
12:42	deltasquared	my heart melted
12:43	IcyDiamond	my old ass nick lol
12:43	deltasquared	I would not usually think of lua as the squee'ing type but I'll roll with it
12:43	deltasquared	*luna
12:43	IcyDiamond	xD
12:44	IcyDiamond	I really have no idea how to do this
12:44	deltasquared	where did rubenwardy say to start off with again btw
12:45	IcyDiamond	guiFormSpecMenu.cpp
12:45	deltasquared	right, that figures
12:45	IcyDiamond	That will lead you to client/hud.cpp "drawItemStack" method
12:45	Krock	altering the textures to draw in the inventory slots
12:45	IcyDiamond	then you'll be looking at itemdef
12:46	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: I'll worry about the itemdef info later, just looking at the actual draw logic right now
12:47	deltasquared	I'm hoping it's not overly complex and is just blitting operations.
12:47	deltasquared	(conceptually, anyway)
12:47	Krock	IcyDiamond, you also have access to the itemstack metadata
12:47	IcyDiamond	it seems to use `ItemMesh *imesh = client->idef()->getWieldMesh(def.name, client);` to draw the item?
12:48	IcyDiamond	the item mesh?
12:48	IcyDiamond	i dont see inventory image mentioned here
12:48	rubenwardy	631 on client/hud.cpp
12:48	IcyDiamond	but if you created a new texture every time from metadata, wouldn't that be overhead?
12:49	IcyDiamond	maybe using functions similar to tool capabilities to recache?
12:51	IcyDiamond	eh, no, that would override all of the same item
12:51	IcyDiamond	hmm
12:51	deltasquared	reads sauce this is more complex than I had hoped o.o
12:51	IcyDiamond	ikr
12:52	IcyDiamond	an idiot like me is unable to comprehend this
12:52	IcyDiamond	:P
12:52	IcyDiamond	does getTexture cache?
12:53	Krock	the problem is that the mesh is per item name, not per texture
12:53	deltasquared	it would seem the mesh thing is only used in the case that the item is "3D" for whatever reason (I think this is used for e.g. nodes, I spy the orthogonal projection)
12:53	IcyDiamond	Krock: i know
12:53	deltasquared	unless... I may be wrang. still readin'
12:53	IcyDiamond	so please tell me why this is tagged beginner friendly
12:53	IcyDiamond	xD
12:53	rubenwardy	it shouldn't be
12:54	deltasquared	rubenwardy: you put the tag there though! https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5686
12:54	IcyDiamond	rubenwardy added the Beginner Friendly label on Oct 16, 2017
12:54	IcyDiamond	you thought otherwise
12:54	IcyDiamond	:D
12:54	IcyDiamond	dat save
12:54	rubenwardy	code obviously changed since
12:54	rubenwardy	\o/
12:54	IcyDiamond	:P
12:54	deltasquared	10/10 bullet dodge
12:54	deltasquared	:P
12:54	IcyDiamond	oh god this seems impossible to do
12:55	IcyDiamond	every implementation i can think of off the top of my head would add overhead
12:55	IcyDiamond	aka l a g
12:55	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: erm, if it's all the same would you mind not calling it impossible while I'ma trying to wrap my head around it? :P
12:55	IcyDiamond	and nobody wants that
12:55	IcyDiamond	per item is hard
12:55	IcyDiamond	:(
12:56	deltasquared	hmm, so it is a mesh in all cases, interesting
12:56	deltasquared	I would have thought for 2D stuff it'd have been a lot simpler. oh well
12:57	rubenwardy	drawing 2d things with OGL is still drawing meshes
12:57	IcyDiamond	:P
12:57	IcyDiamond	of course it is
12:57	IcyDiamond	it's textured quads lol
12:57	deltasquared	rubenwardy: yeah, I guess you are right. darn it
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12:58	Krock	rubenwardy, oh yes. it's being changed all the time. like two years ago
12:58	Krock	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blame/11df7e886/src/hud.cpp#L647
12:58	deltasquared	what I don't get is why the hell the Z buffer is cleared every time a single item is drawn, what's up with that
12:58	rubenwardy	cocidentally that's probably around the last time I read that, before RBA's changes
12:58	IcyDiamond	Krock: yes thats where im stuck at
12:59	IcyDiamond	i've got no clue what to do if i wanted to draw from metadata
12:59	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: well first of all, reduce the problem
12:59	Krock	the irony behind this code is that if you were 2 years earlier, it would've been like changing 1 line and adding 3
12:59	Krock	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blame/bf884e37a0/src/hud.cpp#L498
12:59	deltasquared	the part you are finding hard is not "how to draw from metadata". it's "how do I draw from an abstract list of textures"
12:59	IcyDiamond	Krock: wow
12:59	rubenwardy	Krock: I'm not mad!
12:59	rubenwardy	that's what I thought the code was like
12:59	IcyDiamond	just wow
13:00	rubenwardy	see
13:00	rubenwardy	if it was that, it would be beginner friendly
13:00	IcyDiamond	yes
13:00	IcyDiamond	but now it hates beginners
13:00	IcyDiamond	:P
13:00	rubenwardy	yup
13:01	rubenwardy	so: the question is how to cache them properly
13:01	IcyDiamond	yep
13:01	deltasquared	my naive brain says an LRU cache
13:01	IcyDiamond	per texture mesh cache?
13:02	IcyDiamond	instead of per item name
13:02	IcyDiamond	idk
13:02	deltasquared	if it's something you have around a lot (like hotbar) it'd be drawn quite frequently, so recomputing it all the time would be stupid.
13:02	deltasquared	hash the source texture string and use that as an index into an LRU hashmap
13:02	deltasquared	if hit, draw using that
13:02	IcyDiamond	could you do per texture cache
13:02	IcyDiamond	i think you could
13:02	rubenwardy	memory leak though
13:02	deltasquared	rubenwardy: why's that
13:03	IcyDiamond	rubenwardy: delete old
13:03	rubenwardy	yeah, define old though
13:03	IcyDiamond	previous cache instance
13:03	deltasquared	rubenwardy: erm, not in the top 20 say? the heuristic would need tweaking
13:05	deltasquared	there's also the question of whether messing around with LRU updates would affect the rendering hot loop, but I suspect that wouldn't be a major issue unless proven otherwise.
13:05	deltasquared	(though I don't think this particular part would be called every frame)
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13:07	deltasquared	I'm still puzzled also as to why the Z-buffer would be cleared on every item draw... it doesn't fit with my (admittedly vague) conception of how the Z-buffer works.
13:08	IcyDiamond	so im guessing this is not happening for a while
13:08	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: for me in particular I'd have to do a "deep dive" session of sorts
13:08	deltasquared	it's not the kind of time I can spare what with a dissertation due in three weeks >_>
13:10	IcyDiamond	ClientCached would have to be re-done in order to make metadata-specified textures work
13:11	IcyDiamond	I dont think anyone is in the mood for that, ever
13:16	deltasquared	that previous version in the github blame interface would be a starting point, I think. that kind of code does deserve to be wrapped up in it's own function.
13:16	deltasquared	but evidently it'd need to preserve the caching semantics. hrm
13:21	rdococ	Yay~
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13:33	* rdococ	gives deltasquared some yay fruit, which is made of marzipan
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13:35	ThomasMonroe	:O
13:36	IcyDiamond	lol
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13:38	rdococ	ThomasMonYay
13:38	rdococ	The yays will yay~
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13:46	rdococ	Ba dum fish
13:49	IcyDiamond	:D
13:52	Zeth_	Is there any "convenient" way to download multiple mods? i.e. a github repository with mods as submodules?
13:59	lumberJ	specific mods, or you would just like to have a few good mods to try, Zeth_?
14:00	Zeth_	Since I'm pretty much noob, I guess a collection of "must have" mods would be fine
14:00	lumberJ	most mods are individually released, but some mods are showing up in software managers
14:00	lumberJ	if you are on linux mint or use app grid for example
14:00	Krock	Zeth_, modpacks and games pretend to be convenient but yet it's still simpler to grab all the mods manually to have them as individual git repos
14:01	Krock	since players have different interests in what mods they want to use and which one supersede others
14:01	Krock	^ speaking of forked/re-done mods and such
14:08	Krock	Zeth_, if you need a random mod, check this out: http://krock-works.16mb.com/MTstuff/modSearch.php?st=2&at=1&q=
14:11	rdococ	Ooh,
14:16	Zeth_	I guess my main "reason" would be that there are servers that already seem to have pretty good thing going with their combination of mods, problem is that issuing /mods command and then going on a hunt in the forums is...Clumsy at best
14:17	rdococ	https://forum.minetest.net/viewforum.php?f=11
14:17	Zeth_	Since I don't really know what there is to offer, I guess I could just install all the mods available, especially those on github - and just enable them one by one
14:18	Shara	Best to be selective with your choices. Don't add random mods
14:18	Shara	You can get all kinds of problems then
14:18	Zeth_	I know
14:19	Shara	You can always add just a few, then add more later as you go
14:19	Shara	Some good choices to start: https://www.minetest.net/customize/#mods
14:19	Zeth_	Had enough fiddling with minecraft server mods to know the pain x-x
14:21	rubenwardy	There will hopefully be a mod store in 0.5.
14:21	Shara	Also, installing all the mods available... that could take a really long time :)
14:21	rubenwardy	But it won't help much with bulk installing
14:21	rdococ	Shara: it would probably be impossible to enable them all in one world, as some mods may be incompatible
14:22	rdococ	(with other mods)
14:22	Shara	Certainly impossible
14:23	rdococ	in an alternate universe where mods are all compatible with every other mod, then possible
14:23	rdococ	but that's if you could find a way to get every mod in the first place
14:39	rdococ	Hm, you can create a NOT gate using only a sticky piston and a power source by moving the power source...
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15:04	IcyDiamond	I'm so bored
15:05	IcyDiamond	I'd like to mod but my ideas are pretty much impossible to do rn
15:05	Krock	then play some CTF ^^
15:11	rdococ	My ideas are not only possible, but easy, but they've already been done before
15:12	Zeth_	Well...
15:12	Zeth_	At the very least the mods are hosted on github.
15:12	Zeth_	Unlike some un-named game
15:14	rdococ	what un-named game?
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15:20	rdococ	Zeth_: if you mean minetest_game, which is a game you can add to Minetest, so to speak, it's at https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/
15:23	rubenwardy	No, rdococ, he means Minecraft
15:24	rdococ	oh
15:24	rdococ	I was confused when he said "un-named"
15:24	rdococ	Minecraft clearly has a name...
15:24	rdococ	although I guess you can say it's "un-named" as in people don't want to say its name
15:24	rubenwardy	It's like Voldemort
15:25	rdococ	yea
15:25	rubenwardy	He who shall not be namee
15:25	rubenwardy	That's exactly what he meant
15:26	Krock	Minecraft Minecraft Minecraft it's going to hunt me now
15:26	rdococ	I constructed a NOT gate in mesecons using only a sticky piston, power plant, and ofc mesecon wire
15:27	rdococ	it's kinda funny that a form of vegetation exists that can power mesecons
15:27	Krock	inb4 nuclear power plant is a real thing
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15:30	ThomasMonroe	lol
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15:34	Fixer	make MTG great again
15:34	Fixer	without again, just make it great
15:37	IcyDiamond	I just /really/ need metadata-defined item textures
15:37	IcyDiamond	Like, I really REALLY need it
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15:39	IcyDiamond	Feature request has been sitting around for like a year
15:40	IcyDiamond	And it would open up a long of possibilities for items and tools
15:40	IcyDiamond	Lot*
15:48	rdococ	IcyDiamond: We need metadata-defined everything, item textures, node textures, etc.
15:48	rdococ	I hope it gets added to 0.5.0-dev
15:48	IcyDiamond	+100000000 to that
15:48	IcyDiamond	That's the dream
15:51	IcyDiamond	I have a suggestion: cache textures /per texture/ instead of per node/item
15:51		Akberid joined #minetest
15:51	IcyDiamond	And free them from memory when they're overridden
15:59		erudition joined #minetest
16:00	rubenwardy	IcyDiamond: a year isn't that long for a feature request XD
16:05	IcyDiamond	rubenwardy: it is when you really really want it
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16:18	MinetestBot	[git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Fix various clang-tidy reported performance-type-promotion-in-math-fn 67a4cb7 https://git.io/vxXl3 (2018-04-03T16:16:17Z)
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16:45	juli	is it possible to generate an l-system tree inside an other material then "air"
16:47	juli	has nobody an idea on this? :)
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17:20	juli	did anyone read my question?
17:20	sfan5	yes
17:21	juli	hmm ...
17:22	juli	and you have no idea too?
17:24	paramat	looking at code ..
17:26	juli	ok thank you!
17:27	paramat	it's hardcoded so that only air or ignore are replaceable
17:27	paramat	however trunk nodes can replace leaf or fruit nodes
17:28	juli	ok hmm thats bad
17:28	sfan5	that's terrible
17:28	sfan5	all airlike nodes should be replaceable
17:29	paramat	l-tree code is a bit messy and neglected
17:30	juli	hmm would it be possible to "translate" the c code into lua so that i can make a mod which can generate l-system trees also inside other materials?
17:30	paramat	it has been intended for years to make l-system structures placeable using the Biome API, and multiple placements without each one doing a lightiing update
17:30	paramat	yes possible
17:31	juli	but would it then make much lag?
17:32	paramat	lag depends on the structure you are creating, but yes it will cause some server lag
17:32	paramat	might not be a problem though
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17:33	juli	ok hmm maybe i will do it then, it seems i need voxel manips for it ...
17:37	juli	paramat or will there be a change on this in the 0.5 minetest?
17:41	IcyDiamond	I beg you to refactor textures
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17:45	IcyDiamond	I feel like I'm getting banned soon
17:45	rubenwardy	lol
17:45	paramat	juli not sure, it's low priority
17:45	rubenwardy	paramat wouldn't work on that anyway
17:45	rubenwardy	not his area :)
17:45	rubenwardy	(feel free to take that as a challenge)
17:46	IcyDiamond	Then who's area is it
17:46	paramat	juli please do open an issue though
17:47	paramat	lol
17:47	IcyDiamond	Lol
17:47	paramat	it is my area ^_^
17:47	IcyDiamond	paramat: "I advocate for a refactoring regarding textures. They should be able to be defined in the metadata of nodes and items."
17:48	IcyDiamond	That's what I wish
17:48	juli	ok i will open an issue
17:48	rubenwardy	they're referring to the ClientCache code which is used by huds and formspecs
17:48	IcyDiamond	It'd be so amazing
17:48	rubenwardy	they want to be able to set the inventory_image using meta data
17:48	rubenwardy	which isn't very easy after RBA did his thing
17:48	IcyDiamond	Unfortunately
17:48	juli	if i have finished translating it into lua it is maybe possible that i can translate it back to c so that i can also fix the issue but i don't know ...
17:49	juli	*c++
17:52	IcyDiamond	I really beg you to do it, it'd be very helpful in a number of scenarios. But I understand if there's more important things to do, I'll just go back into my cave
17:54	IcyDiamond	Power to the modders!!
17:54	paramat	juli don't bother translating it back, as the best implementation would likely differ. also the person who works on l-system could just look at your lua code anyway, and if useful translate it themselves
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17:54	juli	ok
17:55	juli	well but the translation into lua won'
17:55	juli	t be so fast too, because i'am not a c++ pro ;)
17:55	paramat	icy yes ok, there is an issue for it, enough IRC spamming :]
17:55	IcyDiamond	Denied
17:55	IcyDiamond	XD
17:55	IcyDiamond	Ok I'll shut up
17:57	rdococ	Concept: Redstone-inspired circuitry system where you have to use a sticky piston or its equivalent along with a power source to create a not gate
17:58	IcyDiamond	Can't you do it in mesecons?
17:59	rdococ	yes but mesecons is too easy to use
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18:43	IcyDiamond	the shortest join message i have ever seen
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18:45	juli	paramat: here is the issue: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7190
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18:49	rdococ	Minetest is yay
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18:54	Zeth_	Minetest is
18:54		Krock joined #minetest
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18:54	Zeth_	Well I got to admit that I was skeptical when I saw it at first...Because I believe my first encounter with minetest was on Android play store
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18:55	deltasquared	Zeth_: I for one find touchscreen controls to be incrediby limiting
18:55	deltasquared	*incredibly. damnit
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18:56	deltasquared	it'll never quite compare to desktop controls
18:57	Zeth_	Yeah
18:58	Zeth_	Touchscreen controls are just clumsy. They only make sense if you play let's say an RTS or like card game
18:58	Zeth_	not first-person
18:58	Zeth_	Credit to those who can make do with what they have tho
19:00	deltasquared	I personally think touch controls would be much more suited to overhead views where you tap to move to a cell.
19:00	deltasquared	but it'd be a fundamentally different feel, no escaping that
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19:06	Zeth_	It's good for swiping and tapping...
19:06	Zeth_	Good for strategy games, or CCGs for example
19:06	Zeth_	or...you know...angry birbs
19:08	rdococ	Angry yays
19:09	deltasquared	the yays are infectious it seems
19:17	Edgy1	yayzw
19:18	Zeth_	I've got some trouble with keybindings though. Minetest doesn't want to play nice with international keyboard it seems
19:21	deltasquared	Zeth_: certain keys not working if you try to rebind them?
19:22	deltasquared	(it is a general peeve of mine that keybinds are based on the effective symbols instead of scan codes... means I have to switch layout when playing muh games)
19:22	IcyDiamond	deltasquared: i begged some more and i was told to shut up essentially
19:22	IcyDiamond	welp
19:22	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: shouldn't have pushed it too hard :P
19:22	IcyDiamond	:D
19:22	deltasquared	there's asking, and then there's being annoying
19:22	deltasquared	;)
19:22	IcyDiamond	there's also begging
19:22	deltasquared	with big puppy eyes? :P
19:23	IcyDiamond	annoying and begging are different only depending on person
19:23	IcyDiamond	:PP
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19:27	Zeth_	Beggars can't be choosers
19:28	deltasquared	Zeth_: normally I'd agree with you but it was a rather annoying thing at the time
19:28	deltasquared	looking at adding a certain feature but the relevant source code is... non-trivial
19:28	IcyDiamond	ye
19:28	deltasquared	I suspect there aren't many people who understand said code right now
19:29	IcyDiamond	except the one who wrote it
19:29	IcyDiamond	:P
19:29	Zeth_	There are instances when even the one who wrote it had no idea wtf he just did
19:29	Zeth_	That's why it's apparently a good practise to document your code
19:30	IcyDiamond	:D
19:30	IcyDiamond	well the code was approved so i guess it isnt that bad
19:30	IcyDiamond	just that nobody thought anyone would ever want to change textures based on metadata
19:30	deltasquared	well, tinker's construct says otherwise
19:30	IcyDiamond	:P
19:33	rubenwardy	IcyDiamond: the guy that wrote it died
19:33	IcyDiamond	O.o?
19:33	IcyDiamond	is that.. true?
19:33	rubenwardy	he was our graphics guy
19:33	IcyDiamond	oh fuck.. now i feel bad
19:34	rubenwardy	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14228
19:34	IcyDiamond	oh, thats so sad
19:34	IcyDiamond	:(
19:35	IcyDiamond	https://i.lunasqu.ee/Screenshot_18-04-03-22:35:35.png oh yeah i never noticed that..
19:35	IcyDiamond	damn :/
19:36	rubenwardy	0.4.14 was dedicated to him
19:36	rubenwardy	anyway
19:36	rubenwardy	so no asking the author for help
19:36	IcyDiamond	i legit feel bad now
19:38	deltasquared	rubenwardy: I see. well, I fall back to plan B. if you can't ask the author... learn by refactoring
19:39	rubenwardy	XD
19:39	deltasquared	but not now, alas I don't have much time for the next few weeks
19:39	IcyDiamond	xD
19:39	deltasquared	I'm not kidding, code clean-up is a great warmup exercise! :P
19:39	rdococ	IcyYayBlobâ„¢
19:39	IcyDiamond	wot
19:39	deltasquared	â€œThe trouble with working on the internet is that if someone goes off-line, we may never know what happened.â€ <-- I remember this with eloraam, the developer of the minecraft mod Redpower 2.
19:40	deltasquared	she just kinda disappeared
19:40	rubenwardy	rdococ likes saying yay
19:40	IcyDiamond	eloraam is working on a voxel game as well
19:40		proller__ joined #minetest
19:40	IcyDiamond	https://twitter.com/TheRealEloraam
19:41	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: now I actually do feel bad in a different way. some pleb had told me she'd been run over
19:41	rdococ	rubenwardy: Saying yay is fun to do
19:41	IcyDiamond	deltasquared: wow what
19:42	rdococ	Yays
19:42	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: I never got a citation for that in all fairness
19:42		ensonic joined #minetest
19:42	IcyDiamond	we have a yay guy
19:43	deltasquared	BillyS: argh you are on here!?
19:43	deltasquared	^ he's another one
19:43	deltasquared	inb4 he's muted on this channel, wouldn't put it past him :P
19:44	IcyDiamond	XD
19:44	IcyDiamond	i have only mentions notifications
19:44	IcyDiamond	not that anyone ever mentions me
19:44	IcyDiamond	im irrelevant
19:44	IcyDiamond	:D
19:45	rubenwardy	IcyDiamond
19:45	IcyDiamond	<3
19:45	rubenwardy	you're irrelevant
19:45	IcyDiamond	</3
19:45	rubenwardy	XD
19:45	deltasquared	don't mind me, I'm just a s***poster programmer
19:45	deltasquared	rubenwardy: 10/10
19:45	* IcyDiamond	cri
19:46	IcyDiamond	I'm a sh*tty web developer who happens to have clinical depression
19:46	IcyDiamond	and I also enjoy making minetest mods
19:46	IcyDiamond	for no apparent reason
19:46	deltasquared	do you use PHP? that's probably the cause
19:47	IcyDiamond	hell no
19:47	deltasquared	wise move :P
19:47	IcyDiamond	im never touching php
19:47	IcyDiamond	that thing is hideous
19:48	IcyDiamond	i use either django, flask or node.js+express
19:48	IcyDiamond	Â¯\_(ãƒ„)_/Â¯
19:48	IcyDiamond	node.js for highly dynamic content, django for bigger websites and flask for small web apps
19:50	IcyDiamond	btw my first contact with lua was because of roblox lol
19:50	IcyDiamond	like 8 years ago
19:50	deltasquared	don't worry, we won't judge roblox users in here... most of the time :P
19:50	IcyDiamond	:D
19:51	IcyDiamond	i havent played roblox in 2 years
19:51	* rubenwardy	does
19:51	rubenwardy	not
19:51	deltasquared	rubenwardy: is this a common play for you? :P
19:51	rubenwardy	I have no idea what "roblox" is
19:51	rubenwardy	probably
19:51	IcyDiamond	a game platform with an increasingly cancerous community
19:52	deltasquared	VRChat users seem to like exploiting it's player models
19:52	IcyDiamond	:P
19:53	IcyDiamond	I was an active member of a community called lualearners
19:53	IcyDiamond	it was dedicated to roblox lua
19:53	IcyDiamond	lol
19:54	deltasquared	to be fair I got most of my current lua knowledge from minetest, probably for similar reasons
19:54	IcyDiamond	So you could say I'm no stranger to lua
19:55	deltasquared	me neither. I've written some... interesting code in it
19:55	IcyDiamond	xD
19:56	IcyDiamond	Lua is absolutely brilliant for game scripting
19:56	deltasquared	coming from a statically typed background, it was unfamiliar at first, but it was a joy not having to write types everywhere.
19:56	deltasquared	I've had genuine fun programming mods in lua
19:56	IcyDiamond	I also had fun making my molten metals mod
19:57	IcyDiamond	I haven't published it though
19:57	IcyDiamond	I'd like to get the metadata textures before
19:57	IcyDiamond	:P
19:59	IcyDiamond	And it's api is also a big undocumented mess
19:59	MinetestBot	[git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Fix more clang-tidy reported problems for performance-type-promotion-â€¦ 4827f75 https://git.io/vxX9o (2018-04-03T19:58:29Z)
19:59	IcyDiamond	So yeah
20:06	deltasquared	mfw realises I had left MT open in another session for a couple hours without realising
20:09	IcyDiamond	Haha I did the same thing
20:10	IcyDiamond	You can simply not quit MT
20:10	IcyDiamond	:D
20:11	rubenwardy	new feature: Minetest now installs itself as a root kit and cannot be closed or uninstalled
20:12	Krock	new feature: installs bugs covered as features now automatically
20:12	IcyDiamond	Haha
20:13	Krock	<IcyDiamond> You can simply not quit MT
20:13	Krock	the only app you can't quit is vim
20:13	IcyDiamond	:q
20:14	IcyDiamond	I never use vim
20:14	IcyDiamond	I am a nano noob
20:14	IcyDiamond	XD
20:16	IcyDiamond	As far as I'm concerned, minetest has no quit button
20:16	deltasquared	found the vim user. oh dear. my recent dabblings with emacs aren't going to go down well... :P
20:17	IcyDiamond	If you have no Esc, there is no escape
20:17		simon816 joined #minetest
20:18	Krock	On Windows it's Ctrl+Alt+Del to solve these problems, meanwhile you kill the problems on Linux with (in my system) Ctrl+Alt+Esc xkill
20:18	Krock	so in your next CTF game prepare xkill to snipe that window
20:18	IcyDiamond	Ctrl alt del logs out on my system
20:19	deltasquared	systemd by default interprets ctrl-alt-del to mean reboot >_>
20:19	deltasquared	needless to say I whacked that pretty fast
20:19	IcyDiamond	Systemd is a meme
20:19	deltasquared	it's also a reliable service manager :P
20:20	IcyDiamond	Now that's a meme
20:20	deltasquared	well if my everyday computer experience is a meme then that makes me happy :P
20:20	IcyDiamond	Jk I have no issues with systemd
20:20	IcyDiamond	I have friends who absolutely despise it
20:21	deltasquared	if it's all the same, I'd rather not start a, erm, discussion about systemd on the minetest channel
20:21	deltasquared	there are windows users present... probably
20:21	deltasquared	let's not frighten them :P
20:21	IcyDiamond	XD
20:22	IcyDiamond	I'm convinced that most minetest enthusiasts are on Linux
20:22	deltasquared	it wouldn't surprise me. it's in many distro repositories for starters
20:23	deltasquared	even runs on my dad's old eee pc netbook... just about
20:23	deltasquared	that thing barely missed the Great i386 Deprecation
20:24	rubenwardy	actually, Android
20:24	rubenwardy	:
20:24	rubenwardy	:D
20:24	deltasquared	-_-
20:24	rubenwardy	I guess it's how you define "enthusiast"
20:24	* deltasquared	mumbles something about inferior input methods
20:32	BillyS	deltasquared: No, I am not here. :P
20:33	IcyDiamond	BillyS: I certainly am
20:33	BillyS	heh
20:33	IcyDiamond	I'm important. Notice me
20:33	BillyS	Hi you.
20:33	IcyDiamond	Hey
20:33	deltasquared	you forgot "senpai~"
20:33	IcyDiamond	Lol
20:33	* deltasquared	runs away quickly
20:33	* BillyS	chases deltasquared
20:33	deltasquared	nooooo
20:34	* IcyDiamond	ducks
20:34	deltasquared	go back to your corium pit damnit
20:34	BillyS	Y0U PingZed M3
20:34	deltasquared	yeah, I didn't ask to get chased by the mad corium guy :P
20:34	Krock	sáº½Ã±pÃ£Ä©
20:34	BillyS	lol
20:35	IcyDiamond	What's a corium
20:35	deltasquared	Krock: needs more zalgo
20:35	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: corium is something from the technic mod
20:35	BillyS	technic:corium
20:35	BillyS	Or
20:35	IcyDiamond	Cool
20:35	BillyS	technic:corium_source
20:35	BillyS	I think
20:35	Krock	sÌ’ÍÌ½Í’Í©Ì€ÌŒÍ¯ÌˆÌÌ„ÌˆÌ“Í›ÌŽÍŠÍ®Ì•Ì¶Í¡Ò‰eÌ‘Í‹Í¬Ì“ÌÌ‘ÍÌ‹Ì’Í¯ÍªÌ¸Ì¨Í nÍŠÍ†ÌŒÌ¾Í†ÍÍ®Ì¾ÌŒÌ“ÍƒÍ‘Ì¡Ì›pÌ’Ì¾Í£ÍÍ‚Ì‹Í¤ÍŠÍ¦Ì…ÌÍ‘ÌšÍ¯Í¦Í£Ì“Ì›ÌµÌµÍœÌ´aÌ€Ì½ÍÍªÍœÌµÌ¶Ì§iÌ…Ì“Í§ÍªÍ—ÌŒÍƒÍ«Ì’ÌšÍ¥Ì¡Ì¢Í¡Ì›
20:35	Krock	ÌŽÌ‹Í¬Ì”ÌÌ†Í«ÌŽÌÌ¢ÍžÍ
20:35	IcyDiamond	You like corium?
20:35	deltasquared	IcyDiamond: BillyS here has a rep for making, err, messes with it
20:35	BillyS	Green radioactive fluid that kills all
20:35	BillyS	And GriefZ
20:35	IcyDiamond	Ay
20:35	BillyS	And DeStr0iZ N0Dez
20:35	deltasquared	Krock: welp you broke hexchat, well done
20:36	Krock	deltasquared, I know, I'm a hexchat user too
20:36	Krock	maxi fuck up doesn't work out too well
20:36	deltasquared	I can imagine not
20:36	deltasquared	sigh why is unicode still a thing we haven't gotten right yet
20:37	Krock	one reason is for sure Windows
20:38	BillyS	Megastupid always did have to have everything their own way
20:38	deltasquared	Krock: yet I think the above mess would still occur with UTF-16
20:38	BillyS	s/Megastupid/Microsoft/
20:38	deltasquared	I'm more thinking about the renderers in this case
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20:48	rdococ	Sincere yays
20:49	rdococ	What is a Krockodileâ„¢
20:49		CarbineMorpho joined #minetest
20:52	Krock	whats a rdocodileâ„¢
20:53	rdococ	A rdocodile is a crocodile that has begun the metamorphosis into a yay.
20:54	Krock	sounds more like a woo than a yay because of the ayy lmao effect
21:05	rdococ	does get_list() return an array?
21:06	MinetestBot	[git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Fix last clang-tidy reported problems for performance-type-promotion-â€¦ 05fe3b0 https://git.io/vxXNN (2018-04-03T21:05:22Z)
21:06	rubenwardy	a table, rdococ
21:06	rubenwardy	but yeah, indexed by integers
21:06		Cornelia joined #minetest
21:07	rdococ	rubenwardy: yes, I am aware that in Lua, the closest thing to arrays is tables with integer keys
21:07	rubenwardy	XD
21:08	Krock	but they start with 1
21:08	rubenwardy	https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/chapters/inventories.html#lua-tables-for-lists
21:08	rubenwardy	^ here is an example
21:12	rdococ	yay
21:16	rdococ	Does get_list() return a list of item strings or ItemStack objects?
21:18	rubenwardy	read the page
21:22	rdococ	I'm reading from lua_api.txt
21:23	Cornelia	Yea... Looks pretty obvious to me..
21:27	* rdococ	had a brain fart
21:27	* rdococ	clears his brain with Febreze
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22:01	BillyS	Is there a way for an MT clinet to create a map from mapblocks downloaded from a server?
22:01	BillyS	Or is that even possible?
22:01	rubenwardy	yes
22:01	sfan5	minetest happens to have this functionality built-in since a few years
22:01	rubenwardy	search for "saving" there will be a setting
22:01	rubenwardy	since 0.4.9 easily
22:01	BillyS	Ooh, nice
22:01	rdococ	hm
22:02	rubenwardy	very useful for servers like RC
22:02	BillyS	Then can I somehow turn that into a singplayer world?
22:02	BillyS	*singleplayer
22:02	rdococ	I'm working on a parser for my circuit board mod. Essentially the circuit board has an inventory which acts as a grid for logic circuits
22:02	rubenwardy	BillyS: yeah
22:02	rubenwardy	you'll need to replicate any mods, else you;'ll get unknown nodes and stuff
22:02	rdococ	Should I do it recursively or iteratively?
22:02	rubenwardy	and you'll need to correct gameid
22:02	rubenwardy	erm
22:02	rubenwardy	iteratively
22:03	rubenwardy	definitely iteratively
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22:03	rubenwardy	unless you want it to be abused
22:03	rubenwardy	XD
22:03	rdococ	true
22:03	rdococ	even though recursion is fun
22:03	rdococ	and if I only use tail recursion then it's essentially iteration anyway
22:04	rubenwardy	well, you should limit the amount it runs per server tick
22:05	BillyS	Hmm, I'll try that
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22:22	rdococ	Damn, I don't know how to do this without recursion
22:23	rdococ	I know it's definitely possible but I don't know how to start
22:23	rud0lf	rdococ: so like microprocessor for minetest?
22:24	rdococ	rud0lf: It's basically an integrated circuit node
22:24	rud0lf	you should penalty every element by energy consumption
22:24	rdococ	rud0lf: You can place mesecon wires in the inventory along with other components
22:24	rud0lf	so people won't throw too much to it
22:25	rud0lf	cool
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22:43	MinetestBot	[git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Optimize a little bit isBlockInSight, adjustDist & collisions (#7193) a90d27e https://git.io/vx1TQ (2018-04-03T22:43:08Z)
22:44	rud0lf	a bit is good
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22:49	sofar	I thought all bits were the same size?
22:49	rubenwardy	no no
22:50	rubenwardy	there are 8 little bits in a bit
22:50	sofar	so where are the big bits?
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22:58	Cornelia	Oh no..
22:58	Cornelia	rdococ beat me to the circuit board mod..
22:58	Cornelia	I've been sitting on an idea like that for a couple months. :P
22:58	Cornelia	Just been too busy to get to it. :(
22:59	rdococ	don't worry, I'll probably mess it up
23:00	rdococ	and then give up and just try making a simpler mod
23:15	Cornelia	Aww..
23:15	Cornelia	If you post on le GitHub maybe I could come along at some point and expand on it. :3
23:17	rud0lf	what next? rc carS?
23:17	rud0lf	:)
23:21	Cornelia	Heh.
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