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IRC log for #minetest, 2018-03-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

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08:43 IcyDiamond https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html Why did nobody tell me about this?
08:43 IcyDiamond This is great!
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10:39 ClockGen Well that's weird
10:40 ClockGen I ttied connecting with my main name "BlackGen" but it says I'm banned
10:40 ClockGen I mean here, on irc channel
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10:41 IcyDiamond lol rip
10:45 shivajiva you can try /mode #minetest b to see if you have an ip on the ban list
10:48 IcyDiamond the magic of dynamic ips
10:51 shivajiva problem with dynamic ip's is due to their use for various scams, it's slowly cutting them off from the legitimate parts of the internet
10:52 IcyDiamond indeed
10:52 IcyDiamond I happen to be a victim to dynamic ips
10:52 IcyDiamond What's even worse is that my ISP uses a carrier grade nat
10:52 IcyDiamond My ip changes more than I change my socks
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10:53 BlackGen Well that's super-strange
10:53 IcyDiamond I'm glad that I have a VPS
10:54 VanessaE it's not your IP or nick, it's because you were root@blahblahg
10:54 VanessaE -g
10:54 BlackGen Well indeed I was
10:54 IcyDiamond lol
10:54 shivajiva I encourage people to report ip bans to their ISP citing their contract has been broken and demand a refund
10:54 VanessaE [03-30 06:54] * #minetest Banlist: Fri Nov 10 05:57:28 2017 *!~root@* wilhelm.freenode.net
10:54 BlackGen I'm running a proot container with arch on my phone and the only user I can have there is root
10:56 VanessaE well you're BlackGen@foo now.
10:56 shivajiva doesn't that just require you to set the irc client up with the correct ident
10:57 VanessaE besides, you can just config your IRC client to send any user@ that you wanty
10:57 VanessaE -y
10:57 VanessaE (identd notwithstanding)
10:57 BlackGen Well, I guess pidgin is really not the best IRC option
10:57 shivajiva lol guess not
10:57 VanessaE why not hexchat?
10:58 shivajiva pidgin has a use for OTR but aside from that it's a quirky irc client
10:58 BlackGen I'm using it too. Anyway now I'm outside of proot container using normal irc client for android
10:59 shivajiva because hexchat looks ghastly?! lol
10:59 VanessaE heresy
10:59 VanessaE blasphemy!
10:59 shivajiva :P
11:00 * shivajiva admires the slick konversation gui
11:00 rubenwardy OTR is nice
11:00 rubenwardy I use hexchat but need a better one
11:01 VanessaE >text-only chat system
11:01 VanessaE >slick gui
11:01 BlackGen I would use konversation if it didn't pull half of KDE as dependencies
11:01 rubenwardy might try Quassel, as Quassel core looks nice
11:01 VanessaE parse error
11:01 IcyDiamond I use weechat lol
11:01 shivajiva yea not really an issue if you run KDE :)
11:01 BlackGen I guess not
11:02 rubenwardy DE dependent software suck
11:02 rubenwardy +s
11:02 shivajiva :P
11:02 IcyDiamond Minetest on Android is unplayable
11:02 IcyDiamond At least for me
11:02 shivajiva ?
11:03 IcyDiamond I'm not too fond of the controls
11:03 BlackGen I played it a lot on my phone too and it works perfectly
11:04 BlackGen Even with more than 60 mods it's still playable
11:04 BlackGen And initialization doesn't take ages
11:04 IcyDiamond True true
11:04 IcyDiamond I just don't dig the controls
11:04 BlackGen Well, they are fine
11:04 BlackGen At least there are controls
11:05 shivajiva heh nobody is fond of those controls, bit too easy to hit the wrong icon, someone has proposed a nicer joystick
11:06 rubenwardy IcyDiamond, new controls in 0.5.0!
11:06 rubenwardy much better
11:06 shivajiva ^
11:06 BlackGen 0.5.0 prepared for release in the next universe cycle
11:06 rubenwardy there will be more Android improvements too
11:06 IcyDiamond :D
11:06 rubenwardy and also a game/mod store
11:07 shivajiva I can assure you it will happen before this Yuga is over
11:07 IcyDiamond Yeah I've been keeping tabs on issues and PRs
11:07 IcyDiamond I like what I see
11:07 BlackGen Also there will be a raycast function?
11:08 rubenwardy there already is?
11:08 rubenwardy minetest.raycast?
11:08 BlackGen Well isn't it in 0.4.17
11:08 IcyDiamond Minetest needs a power api like thermal expansion on mc
11:08 BlackGen Or some beta version that's not public yet
11:08 rubenwardy then it'll be in 0.5.0 XD
11:09 BlackGen At least it's not in the version from arch linux repos
11:09 BlackGen Which is release 0.4.16
11:09 IcyDiamond Lmao
11:09 shivajiva surprisingly up to date!
11:10 BlackGen Well, arch linux is rolling release and that's their blessing and curse
11:10 IcyDiamond I also use arch
11:10 shivajiva I prefer to compile tbh
11:11 IcyDiamond I like having my packages package managed
11:11 BlackGen Well, I compile as less as possible and when it's absolutely unavoidable. I keep a list of packages for easy deployment and also to be sure that all software on all my machines is the same
11:11 shivajiva yea for the most part but I like to mess n test
11:12 BlackGen The only 2 things that I compile myself are various wine versions (for using them simultaneously due to regressions)
11:12 IcyDiamond I run a minetest server but none of my friends want to play so it just sits empty
11:12 BlackGen And unreal engine
11:13 IcyDiamond And I don't fancy announcing it to the list
11:13 BlackGen Same, but there are actually people playing on my server
11:13 BlackGen I succsessfully converted them from minecraft
11:13 rubenwardy yaay
11:13 rubenwardy 0.5.0 is a pretty cool release
11:13 rubenwardy I'm quite excited for it
11:14 IcyDiamond Same
11:14 rubenwardy I just hope that we can recover from the user base fragmentation
11:16 BlackGen I'm not happy with backwards-compatibility breaking changes
11:16 IcyDiamond I am if it's for good improvements
11:17 BlackGen Can't find that one PR, but it oves player pivot one node up or something
11:17 BlackGen So a lot of things like 3d_armor, mobs_redo, advanced_npc, etc are broken
11:17 BlackGen I mean, they willl not be, and authors already introduced changes in respective branches
11:18 BlackGen But old mods that also use it will remain uncompatible
11:20 shivajiva any interest in an old mod will result in a remake or fix I think
11:21 shivajiva the mod community is reasonably active
11:25 IcyDiamond Indeed
11:28 rubenwardy they will be fixed in time
11:28 rubenwardy all those are active mods
11:40 IcyDiamond https://github.com/gdelazzari/tech_api is this no longer in development? I love the idea of it
11:41 rubenwardy nice
11:41 IcyDiamond I might fork it and do something with it
11:42 rubenwardy that would be good :D
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11:56 shivajiva wonder if sqlite db would work for storage for the tech api
11:56 rubenwardy heh
11:56 rubenwardy well
11:56 rubenwardy areastore whilst in game
11:56 rubenwardy sqlite maybe for offline
11:57 shivajiva yea :)
11:58 IcyDiamond I don't think I'm smart enough to do that myself
11:59 IcyDiamond why did my game just crash the hell
11:59 IcyDiamond wth happened, nothing in debug.txt either
11:59 IcyDiamond :/
12:00 IcyDiamond ok that was.. interesting
12:02 shivajiva I often get a crash with nothing in debug log, usually within 48 hours of each other
12:03 Krock already checked the memory use?
12:03 shivajiva the server can crap out and reset 3 or 4 times before it returns to some kind of stability also
12:04 shivajiva without a hint of any problem in the debug log
12:05 shivajiva other times it shows a lua OOM within a few minutes of restarting
12:07 shivajiva 798MB is frequent but sometimes it's up at the 900MB mark
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12:08 shivajiva IcyDiamond: willing to help you with the sqlite if you wish to go that route for offline storage
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12:39 IcyDiamond To be honest I'm not motivated enough to do anything at all
12:39 IcyDiamond Kinda sucks
12:40 IcyDiamond https://i.lunasqu.ee/Screenshot_18-03-30-15:40:17.png please allow this screenshot to distract you
12:41 IcyDiamond I still have no idea what to do with those
12:42 Krock put them into a cavern mod
12:42 IcyDiamond I made them generate underground
12:42 Krock make them hurt when standing on them
12:42 Krock make them hurt when you try to eat them
12:43 Krock make tools out of them
12:43 IcyDiamond https://i.lunasqu.ee/Screenshot_18-03-30-15:43:01.png wireframe mode
12:43 IcyDiamond lol
12:43 Krock These must be starts of the underground!
12:43 Krock *stars
12:43 IcyDiamond :D
12:43 IcyDiamond I might make tools
12:44 IcyDiamond it's a pain to texture tools though
12:44 IcyDiamond xD
12:44 Krock or add a mod as dependency and use its API to add more amazing nodes
12:44 IcyDiamond I would use technic but i cant register machines
12:44 IcyDiamond cuz technic hardcodes the mod prefix
12:45 IcyDiamond and i dont think theres a good way to get around it
12:45 Krock -> technic PR
12:46 IcyDiamond hmmm
12:47 IcyDiamond I mean, it already has 15 PRs, do you think I should bother?
12:47 IcyDiamond xD
12:47 IcyDiamond https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/issues/419 I made an issue though
12:48 IcyDiamond and i dont want to reinvent the wheel on this one either
12:49 Krock IcyDiamond, I mean, Minetest has like 95 PRs, do you think people still bother? A: yes :D
12:50 IcyDiamond Well, I mean, Minetest is actively maintained, while this mod doesnt seem to be
12:50 IcyDiamond I see PRs merged on Minetest every day
12:51 Krock it may be a bit inactive but if you poke the developers a bit, something may happen :D
12:51 IcyDiamond xD
12:52 Krock a PR to fix your issue consists of about 1 new line in that file and a few search&replace for the textures and to make use of `data.modname`
12:53 Krock plus documentation of that additional `data` field which is handled (if there is a documentation)
12:53 Krock correction: there is a documentation in the Wiki
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13:13 IcyDiamond https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/pull/420 omg I got 420!
13:13 IcyDiamond what a get
13:13 IcyDiamond :D
13:17 Krock [aesthetics intensifies]
13:17 IcyDiamond https://i.lunasqu.ee/Screenshot_18-03-30-16:17:25.png what can I say, it works
13:17 IcyDiamond :P
13:19 IcyDiamond I really hope they merge this
13:19 IcyDiamond It's super useful, imo
13:19 IcyDiamond :P
13:20 Krock I've seen 3 other PRs that could be merged as-is - pretty sure there are more of them
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13:24 IcyDiamond https://termbin.lunasqu.ee/1o44 this is all it took to add a machine and recipes with this PR
13:24 IcyDiamond amazing
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13:27 IcyDiamond This is the error you get currently: "Name technic:lv_infuser does not follow naming conventions: "morecrystals:" or ":" prefix required"
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13:28 IcyDiamond And no, there is no way to add a ":" without this modification.
13:30 Krock add it in all cases. even for technic
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16:33 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Client eventmanager refactor (#7179) ce87310 https://git.io/vxomP (2018-03-30T16:32:52Z)
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17:51 EldritchGuard-La and I bloom back into exsistance
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18:15 IcyDiamond Ay
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18:17 IcyDiamond What if we could create a compatibility layer which would allow minecraft players to join minetest servers
18:18 IcyDiamond Probably wouldn't be possible at all
18:18 IcyDiamond But imagine that
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18:22 rubenwardy Heh
18:22 rubenwardy You're welcome to try :P
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18:28 IcyDiamond No thanks :p
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18:29 IcyDiamond If anyone is crazy enough to attempt such a crazy endeavour, heres the mc protocol spec: http://wiki.vg/Protocol
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18:51 EldritchGuard-La IcyDiamond, your idea is foolish
18:51 EldritchGuard-La Minetest is able to adapt to servers without having to install mods by hand
18:52 EldritchGuard-La Minecraft has a too big of selection and each mod needs to be installed by hand with a java engine
18:52 EldritchGuard-La installed by hand and used with a java engine*
18:52 IcyDiamond Yes I know
18:53 EldritchGuard-La not to mention minetest is basically dead and Minecraft itself is dying
18:54 IcyDiamond I won't let minetest die
18:55 IcyDiamond XD
18:55 EldritchGuard-La well it will/is
18:55 IcyDiamond Aren't you a pessimist
18:55 EldritchGuard-La problem #1, knock off titles
18:55 EldritchGuard-La idc
18:56 IcyDiamond I do agree that the title is not good
18:56 EldritchGuard-La #2 so many fake version loaded with pay2win garbage
18:56 EldritchGuard-La #3 the stale movements and animations
18:57 EldritchGuard-La #4 the player base is usually 10 year olds with no money or 30 year old creeps stalking them
18:57 EldritchGuard-La correction 4-10 year olds
18:57 EldritchGuard-La my bad
18:58 EldritchGuard-La #5 many staff members are just to cringy to deal with
18:58 EldritchGuard-La bash me if you will but we all know its true
18:59 EldritchGuard-La you got those staff members that roleplay, that argue, that are just a real hassle to players and other staff
18:59 rubenwardy It's really not dead
18:59 rubenwardy Also, don't play on those servers
18:59 rubenwardy There are lots of good servers with mature staff members
19:00 EldritchGuard-La im not trying to be an ass or anything, but it really is, i go look at the server list its usually servers that payquite a bit that get attention even then they dont profit enough to keep it going
19:00 rubenwardy Also, who are you? Just joined to say Minetest is dead?
19:00 EldritchGuard-La an old member
19:01 rubenwardy Profit?
19:01 EldritchGuard-La yes profit enough to keep the server running and expanding
19:01 EldritchGuard-La donations, etc
19:01 rubenwardy This community doesn't run on anything like that
19:01 EldritchGuard-La when i say profit i dont mean to the owners pocket i mean to benefit the servers
19:01 rubenwardy It never has
19:02 EldritchGuard-La maybe thats a problem?
19:02 rubenwardy I don't think donations to a server is required for a community to be alive
19:02 lumberJ its only a problem for you, apparently
19:03 EldritchGuard-La funny because ive looked recently and its usually 10 year olds or foreigns
19:03 IcyDiamond I personally pay for my vps and I don't even have a job
19:03 EldritchGuard-La hence why id consider donation to give players kits and such
19:04 IcyDiamond I have a mc server that is completely dead now
19:04 IcyDiamond None of my friends play mc anymore
19:04 EldritchGuard-La hence why MC is dying itself people arent interested
19:04 IcyDiamond I migrated to minetest
19:04 EldritchGuard-La its the same old schtick
19:04 IcyDiamond Nobody followed me
19:05 rdococ I don't think Minecraft is dying so much as it suffers from the same player base problem you think Minetest does
19:05 rdococ which doesn't mean it'll die necessarily
19:05 lumberJ pretty sure that is not what improves game culture. if any thing mt has probably gotten more popular as a result of being free
19:05 EldritchGuard-La when I say minecraft i just mean in general, its lost its popularity
19:05 lumberJ and with higher quality player base
19:06 EldritchGuard-La look there is no point in argueing with blind people
19:06 rdococ I can see perfectly fine
19:06 rdococ /s
19:06 lumberJ lol
19:06 IcyDiamond I also have good vision
19:07 rdococ actually I needed glasses in the past
19:07 rdococ but my vision isn't bad
19:08 IcyDiamond I love minetest though
19:08 rdococ Minetest is very yay
19:08 rdococ I just built a mesecons piston feed tape in Minetest
19:09 IcyDiamond Cool
19:09 IcyDiamond I'm making mods for fun and lua api learning
19:09 IcyDiamond Not really publishing any of em
19:10 IcyDiamond Fun fact: lua was my first contact with programming ever (not minetest)
19:10 lumberJ no point in arguing with people who disagree with me
19:11 jluc my son generaly prefers minecraft because features are ready out of the box
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19:11 rdococ fair enough I suppose
19:11 jluc with minetest i have to search, test, choose and learn a lot on how to deploy these features
19:11 rdococ but the gameplay experience that results can be much more flexible
19:11 IcyDiamond I tried getting my gf into minetest but she's not interested it seems
19:11 Shara That's why finding a good server can be worth the effort :)
19:12 Shara Then the work is done for you
19:12 jluc yep. doing it requires lot of time
19:12 jluc its an enpowering process for me and my son
19:13 jluc i hope he will get into sharing this - long term
19:13 jluc exploring and coding also
19:13 IcyDiamond I personally love being able to change everything about my game
19:13 jluc but it takes time as for now
19:13 IcyDiamond And my system
19:13 IcyDiamond That's why I use arch linux
19:14 jluc it'd be nice to get "out of the box" more fully featured
19:14 jluc minetest distros
19:14 jluc or servers
19:14 IcyDiamond Lmao
19:14 rdococ minetest_game could use some improvement, I guess
19:14 jluc i'm far from being fully aware of all mt universe
19:14 Shara We need more good alternatives to MTG :)
19:14 lumberJ jluc: subgames
19:14 sofar did someone say "inside the box" ?
19:15 * sofar hides again
19:15 lumberJ lol
19:15 * Shara pokes the sofar :P
19:15 Shara lumberJ: we're just calling them games now. No more subgames.
19:15 * rdococ pokes the Shara
19:15 Shara Ekk! Hi rdococ :)
19:16 jluc let me share just a few ez ideas :
19:16 * IcyDiamond pokes sofar too
19:16 jluc 1) having a new checkbox "enable monsters"
19:16 lumberJ good to know, Shara. thanks
19:16 rdococ Shara: what do we call Minetest then?
19:16 lumberJ game engine
19:16 rdococ jluc: minetest_game has no built-in monsters
19:16 Shara Minetest itself? That's the.. what lumberJ said
19:16 jluc 2) a new checkbox "enable protect buildings"
19:16 IcyDiamond Minetest is best engine
19:16 rdococ both of those are in mods
19:17 jluc maybe a set of basic mods bundled
19:17 Shara jluc: MTG is just one game, and a very minimal one, since it needs to meet all needs.
19:17 jluc not necessarily active
19:17 jluc but bundled
19:17 Shara For example, singleplayer mode would never have reason to have protection mods
19:17 rdococ ^
19:17 Shara And then there's the debate of which protection mod?
19:17 lumberJ plus one of the advantages is its very light weight as is, so compatible with more systems
19:18 jluc AFAIK exploring mods is exploring forums, and that is tedious and quite unefficient
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19:18 lumberJ and it is really not that hard to locate and add goo d quality mods, imo
19:18 Shara jluc: you can always just ask here what good mods there are for some certain thing.
19:18 BlackGen Hey guys, object definition table seems to have glow element, how do I use it? https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html#object-properties
19:18 jluc yes compatible with old machines is a very good thing - i could run an LAN party on old computers in an internet cafe
19:19 jluc ok shara :-)
19:19 BlackGen I have a sprite entity, I'm trying to set glow, but it does nothing
19:19 jluc what mod should i use to enable my son to protect his buildings ?
19:19 lumberJ minetest.net lists several estblished mods as well
19:19 Shara There's enough server owners an dmod writers drifting around the place to help :)
19:19 BlackGen Does it work in the same way as glow in particle definition?
19:19 jluc where can i find this "established" list lumberJ ?
19:20 Shara https://www.minetest.net/customize/#mods
19:20 lumberJ yes, that is not exhaustive but its a good start
19:20 jluc ok great
19:20 sfan5 BlackGen: is your minetest new enough?
19:20 Shara A good approach can just be testing out a few public servers as well to see what they use
19:20 sfan5 glow was added somewhat recently
19:21 jluc that's ok for me - i come and ask here
19:21 Shara That's what I did way back when I was trying to pick mods to use
19:21 lumberJ the first thing i do when i join a server is type /mods to see what they are working with
19:21 jluc a link toaward this page, in minetest mod pages, would help wider audience to reach this page
19:22 Shara jluc: I don't knwo what pages you mean. That's literally the main page for mods on the official MT site
19:22 jluc (anywayt) thanks a lot (from me) for this url :-)
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19:22 BlackGen sfan5: no, I have 0.4.16 release version
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19:23 jluc then it'd be very logical to add this url in the mod pane of minetest GUI
19:23 sfan5 BlackGen: you'll need 0.5.0-dev
19:23 BlackGen I see, thanks
19:24 Shara jluc: not really. But a way to find mods from there in general is something that's been talked about
19:24 Shara A proper mod store type thing instead of just a link :)
19:25 jluc that'd be even better but nothing is better than a community decision about "standard" or "best" mods list
19:25 jluc (but i understand it's not an easy result to reach lol)
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19:26 Shara Well, the problem is that you could ask ten different people what the best mods are and get ten different answers
19:26 jluc sure
19:26 jluc stats ? statistics would help
19:26 jluc use counts
19:26 Shara Well, I'd argue high use doesn't always mean great mod
19:27 jluc not best, but useable
19:28 lumberJ the rather is anarchic array of mods to choose from is rather preferable to me, personally, both as a player and a modder
19:28 Shara As a server owner I looked for forgotten mods and little used mods that were still of good quality, or could be rewritten to be good quality. Otherwise I'd just be offering servers the same as are offered by a hundred other people.
19:28 jluc an other hint is the  last commit date on the mod
19:28 IcyDiamond Mesecons is best mod
19:28 IcyDiamond Technic is second
19:28 Shara Last commit date doesn't mean much either. Just means nothing changed in x amount of time to cause an update to be needed.
19:28 lumberJ two mods i never use^ to prove Shara's point
19:28 IcyDiamond Are there any technic devs here?
19:28 jluc my son is a bit young as for mese - afaik
19:28 IcyDiamond I'd like my PR reviewed
19:29 jluc :-D
19:29 jluc he gets into scratch however and might soon get into mese
19:29 jluc (never tried personnaly)
19:30 Shara lumberJ: same here for the most part (I occasionally use mesecons)
19:30 Shara But on a server, these mods can just make endless problems.
19:30 * jluc is watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccLUt58mo0k
19:30 IcyDiamond No technic devs?
19:31 sofar link?
19:31 lumberJ don't get me wrong, they seem like cool mods, but don't really add much to gameplay that i want that i can't get from less laggy mods like basic_machines
19:33 IcyDiamond https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/pull/420
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19:37 jluc morlendor might rise my son's interest
19:37 jluc he often mentions underland (if i recall well)
19:38 jluc i was offered a server on minecity.online
19:39 jluc hope i can do something fun with it
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19:40 wsmqj .-.            .-.
19:40 wsmqj .-.            .-.
19:40 wsmqj .-.            .-.
19:40 wsmqj .-.            .-.
19:40 jluc a french langage server for kids
19:40 wsmqj /   \          /   \
19:40 wsmqj /   \          /   \
19:40 wsmqj /   \          /   \
19:40 wsmqj /   \          /   \
19:40 wsmqj |   _ \        / _   |
19:40 wsmqj |   _ \        / _   |
19:40 wsmqj |   _ \        / _   |
19:40 wsmqj |   _ \        / _   |
19:40 wsmqj ;  | \ \      / / |  ;
19:40 wsmqj ;  | \ \      / / |  ;
19:40 wsmqj ;  | \ \      / / |  ;
19:40 wsmqj ;  | \ \      / / |  ;
19:40 clavi mods
19:40 wsmqj \  \ \ \_.._/ / /  /
19:40 wsmqj \  \ \ \_.._/ / /  /
19:40 wsmqj \  \ \ \_.._/ / /  /
19:40 wsmqj \  \ \ \_.._/ / /  /
19:40 wsmqj '. '.;'    ';,' .'
19:40 wsmqj '. '.;'    ';,' .'
19:40 wsmqj '. '.;'    ';,' .'
19:40 wsmqj '. '.;'    ';,' .'
19:40 wsmqj was kicked by sfan5: wsmqj
19:40 rdococ o_O
19:40 clavi I've seen it in another channel too
19:40 sfan5 it's supposed to be a bunny saying happy easter
19:40 sfan5 looks it fucked up though
19:41 lumberJ spider bunny
19:44 IcyDiamond Uhh.. kden
19:45 IcyDiamond I go for one minute
19:46 IcyDiamond Can't say I haven't seen spam before, I ran an irc network for two years
19:49 rdococ I'd like the default item limit per stack to be 100 instead of 99
19:50 jluc well minetest UI might provide links to "further reading"
19:50 clavi yeah 99 irks me too
19:51 jluc it would help getting more hints on mt universe
19:51 clavi split it and you got 50-49
19:51 clavi fffff
19:53 lumberJ jluc. minetest.net is referenced in the about page, i believe
19:54 lumberJ if people don't care to follow or look for a wiki they probably aren't that interested in reading to learn more
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19:56 jluc please dont support that belief
19:56 lumberJ my experience has been the better i try to document things the less likely people will read it :P
19:56 lumberJ its too much to read :D
19:56 IcyDiamond :D
19:57 Shara Good documentation is thorough.. but stops at exactly what's needed
19:57 jluc documenting things is the most important thing in order people to share wider experience
19:57 jluc and leads to people sharing devs !
19:57 Shara It also needs to be easy to find the bit you need
19:58 jluc even whent that's for 1% or 1/1000 of people
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19:59 jluc hence the use for "more" link...
19:59 Shara More links don't help
19:59 jluc dont bother 99% with useless knowledge
20:00 jluc but help interested ones to get hints on how to go further
20:00 jluc :-)
20:00 Shara Can't they just type, I don't know... "minetest mods" or whatever in their search engine of choice?
20:00 jluc i did so but was kindof lost in the amount of results
20:01 jluc i didnt try for "protect buildings" but tried for "monsters"
20:01 lumberJ but its all there if you start with minetest.net
20:01 lumberJ the wiki, the forums
20:01 Shara And starting with the official site is usually what most people would do
20:01 jluc "all" might be too much
20:01 jluc maybe that's the issue
20:02 lumberJ lol, so "more" links will fix it?
20:02 rdococ my plan is actually to create a brainfuck interpreter in minetest
20:02 rdococ without the aid of lua
20:02 rdococ I'll be using a finite tape though
20:02 jluc brainfuck yourself first (and tell us later=
20:02 jluc )
20:03 jluc it's difficult to share "this way"
20:03 jluc when every one involved has its own way
20:03 jluc but achieveing this would help the newcomers a lot
20:04 lumberJ i for one think minetest.net does about as well as you can expect as far as pulling everything together in a way that is accessible open to the community
20:04 lumberJ so thank you to the devs who have made that possible
20:04 lumberJ jluc, welcome to open source
20:04 jluc :-)
20:05 IcyDiamond How is minetest.net hosted?
20:05 IcyDiamond Github pages?
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20:11 sofar rdococ: make it with nodes, not text input
20:12 sofar e.g. one node is a !
20:12 rdococ sofar: that was my plan
20:12 sofar err
20:12 rdococ I meant node input
20:12 sofar ><+-.,[] 8 nodes
20:12 rdococ yes, that's what I meant
20:12 sofar and then have a robot that moves over them
20:12 rdococ I decided to switch from a cyclical tape to a linear one
20:12 rdococ hm, I wasn't going to use a robot, rather I was planning to use sticky movestone
20:13 sofar so you can layout various programs horizontally
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20:13 sofar and stick a robot on top of a node and it progresses along the programs that it encounters on its' way
20:13 sofar just have to punch to give it direction, I guess
20:17 rdococ I was planning to have the tape move instead of the 'robot'
20:17 rdococ also, not sure what kind of robot you mean. I know of a robot mod but in it the robots use lua
20:21 rdococ I couldn't get a linear tape to work with the limited space, so I've decided to switch back to cyclic
20:22 sofar well so you need to have some sort of memory
20:22 sofar and instructions
20:22 sofar you can decide to have the memory be nodes
20:22 sofar or the instructions
20:22 sofar probably cooler to have the memory be nodes
20:23 sofar and then your instructions sit in a formspec in an entity or a special node
20:23 sofar and you give that a range to use as memory
20:40 jluc gn
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20:41 rdococ sofar: at the moment I'm trying to get the cyclical memory tape to go in both directions
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20:57 rubenwardy IcyDiamond: https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io
20:57 rubenwardy PRs welcome
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21:09 rdococ sofar: I've completed the memory tape system
21:09 rdococ although I'm kind of lost on how to continue
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21:19 rubenwardy you want a decoder
21:19 rubenwardy it needs to read an instruction from the memory
21:19 rubenwardy and then it needs to work out what to do
21:20 rdococ yea
21:20 rubenwardy you also need a clock which sends out ticks
21:20 rdococ also, I'm going to have a separate instruction tape
21:20 rubenwardy sure
21:21 rdococ I also need a way to modify the memory tape in the first place
21:21 rubenwardy well, yeah
21:22 rubenwardy usually this is done by having 3 inputs to the memory
21:22 rdococ and parse nested [] loops...
21:22 rubenwardy plus and ack
21:22 rubenwardy no
21:22 rubenwardy why would you need to parse loops
21:22 rubenwardy anyway
21:22 rdococ my goal is a bf interpreter
21:22 rdococ I would need to parse loops then
21:22 rubenwardy heh
21:23 rubenwardy good luck
21:23 rubenwardy machine code is more fun
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21:26 rdococ might try a machine code interpreter instead
21:26 Hawk777 Eh, parsing BF loops is *reasonably* straightforward. Every time you see, [, do nothing. Every time you see ], evaluate the condition. If you need to loop, switch modes and set a counter to 1. While in the alternate mode, move the tape backwards. Every time you see ], increment the counter. Every time you see [, decrement the counter. Ignore all other instructions. Once the counter reaches zero, revert to normal mode. Done.
21:26 rubenwardy no no no
21:26 rubenwardy not interpreter
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21:26 Hawk777 That’s something one could build in hardware.
21:26 rubenwardy you don't interpret machine code
21:26 rdococ oh, yes, I had a brain fart
21:26 rubenwardy you run it
21:26 rdococ machine code is compiled
21:26 rubenwardy no
21:26 rubenwardy it's already compiled
21:26 rubenwardy you just decode it and run it
21:26 * rdococ bashes his head against a wall
21:27 rdococ I swear I'm not dumb
21:27 rubenwardy I made a machine code computer from NAND gates in first year of uni, one of my favourite courses
21:27 rdococ how did it work?
21:27 rubenwardy in order, my favourite courseworks have been: 1. writing a kernel    2. 3d renderer     3. computer
21:28 rubenwardy basically, you make components at increasing levels of abstraction
21:28 rubenwardy so   NAND gates ->  AND/OR Gates -> Adders -> RAM / Mutexes
21:29 rubenwardy then you eventually put them together into decoders, ALUs, and such
21:29 rdococ I have created a one-bit memory cell once
21:29 rubenwardy nand to tetris is a good guide, I've heard
21:29 rubenwardy lol
21:29 rdococ it was basically a circuit with two NOT gates
21:29 rubenwardy that's in the second week of a 12 week course :)
21:30 rubenwardy it's pretty cool anyway
21:32 rubenwardy http://www.nand2tetris.org/
21:39 rdococ I was thinking of having both black and white wool nodes, and then using pistons to shift them up and down
21:42 Krock <rubenwardy> you don't interpret machine code
21:43 Krock that's where you're wrong (kiddo)
21:43 rubenwardy lol
21:43 Krock closed source binaries can only be read that way. of course, there are programs to display it in assembler
21:46 rdococ machine code is what stuff is generally compiled to
21:46 rdococ generally, as you can compile to other languages such as intermediate bytecode ones
21:50 rdococ ugh
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22:10 rdococ hi DOH'F
22:11 longerstaff13 hi rdococ
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23:13 rdococ hi
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