| Time |
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Message |
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GreenDimond |
tysm rubenwardy :D |
| 00:30 |
rubenwardy |
yw :D |
| 00:38 |
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greeter |
welcome back wilkgr |
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wilkgr |
Awe thanks greeter :) |
| 02:00 |
greeter |
you're welcome |
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| 08:11 |
jas_ |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62unij6YXyY |
| 08:11 |
jas_ |
!title |
| 08:11 |
MinetestBot |
jas_: Lonnie Donegan - My Dixie Darling - YouTube |
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| 16:22 |
Wuzzy |
celeron55: why did you call this thing "Minetest-c55" initially? it sure is a strange name. ;) |
| 16:22 |
Calinou |
celeron55 = c55 |
| 16:23 |
Calinou |
simple as that :P |
| 16:23 |
Wuzzy |
obviously |
| 16:23 |
Wuzzy |
I was more getting at the "Minetest" path of the name |
| 16:23 |
Wuzzy |
part* |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest - a test as to whether he could make a Minecraft game |
| 16:23 |
Wuzzy |
how do you know? |
| 16:23 |
rubenwardy |
was mentioned a long time ago |
| 16:24 |
Wuzzy |
**TESTING IN PROGES … PLEASE WAIT** |
| 16:24 |
Wuzzy |
;-) |
| 16:27 |
rubenwardy |
terrible name |
| 16:27 |
rubenwardy |
"Sounds like a test suite for Minecraft" - someone |
| 16:28 |
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| 16:35 |
Krock |
"the world is flat" - someone |
| 16:44 |
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| 16:45 |
benrob0329 |
rubenwardy: wasn't mentioned that long ago actually |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
my source is a while ago |
| 16:46 |
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| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
I mentioned it a few days ago though |
| 16:46 |
benrob0329 |
He also said the entirety of Minetest was supposed to be a joke, but we seem to have lost some of that humor :-( |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
in -hub |
| 16:47 |
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| 16:53 |
frostsnow |
benrob0329: IDK if you got the memo, but Minetest is a serious competitive game. |
| 16:54 |
benrob0329 |
frostsnow: I believe youre thinking of CS:GO ;-) |
| 16:55 |
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| 17:00 |
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| 17:03 |
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| 17:07 |
Wuzzy |
hello |
| 17:07 |
greeter |
greetings |
| 17:07 |
Wuzzy |
I'm currently trying to think of a better sentence to put on minetest.net (the very homepage) |
| 17:08 |
Wuzzy |
. because the current description is just horrible. :D |
| 17:08 |
greeter |
hmm should probably see what the current sentence is |
| 17:08 |
Wuzzy |
http://minetest.net |
| 17:08 |
Calinou |
<frostsnow> benrob0329: IDK if you got the memo, but Minetest is a serious competitive game. |
| 17:08 |
Calinou |
rush cave |
| 17:08 |
Calinou |
drop mesepickaxe |
| 17:08 |
Calinou |
stonesword noob |
| 17:08 |
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| 17:08 |
greeter |
Minetest is the best game you've never played, unless you've played it :-P |
| 17:08 |
Calinou |
:P |
| 17:08 |
Wuzzy |
awesom. |
| 17:09 |
Wuzzy |
"Minetest is a thing." |
| 17:09 |
greeter |
i like that one |
| 17:09 |
Wuzzy |
"Play a mine tester, the most dangerous job in the world!" |
| 17:10 |
Wuzzy |
ok but for real. we *need* a non-horrible description xd |
| 17:10 |
Wuzzy |
my first idea is: |
| 17:10 |
Wuzzy |
"With Minetest you can play various games which are set in strange worlds made entirely out of blocks." |
| 17:10 |
Wuzzy |
rubenwardy didn't really like it |
| 17:11 |
Wuzzy |
"way too verbose"... wtf |
| 17:11 |
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| 17:12 |
greeter |
eh i'm just looking for ideas. after years of playing MT i'm finally starting to run out lol |
| 17:14 |
Calinou |
"Come see Minetest - we have blocks, items and tools" |
| 17:14 |
paramat |
'near infinite world' is ridiculous and no better than 'infinite world' =D |
| 17:14 |
Wuzzy |
pfff |
| 17:14 |
greeter |
"Find your inner child, play with blocks again." |
| 17:15 |
Wuzzy |
hmmm the idaa is that everyone can understand whta minetets is *really* about |
| 17:15 |
greeter |
to be honest i'm not sure i really understand what it's about |
| 17:16 |
Wuzzy |
I think I do. |
| 17:16 |
paramat |
apparently infinity is a little over 62000 |
| 17:16 |
greeter |
62000^3 which is a large number of blocks. course half of them are air nodes and there's no direct interaction with those anyway |
| 17:16 |
Wuzzy |
paramat: i am referring to the very first sentence |
| 17:17 |
Wuzzy |
"A free, open source voxel game engine and game. Fully extendable. You are in control." |
| 17:17 |
Wuzzy |
^ this horrible abonimation |
| 17:17 |
Wuzzy |
it doesnt make MT interesting, and doesn't really *explain* anyting |
| 17:19 |
paramat |
oh |
| 17:19 |
paramat |
http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491 sets a suitably serious tone for MT |
| 17:19 |
Wuzzy |
"You find yourselves in a strange world in which everything is a cube. Welcome to the world of Minetest." |
| 17:20 |
paramat |
i find 'meet minetest' cheesy :] |
| 17:21 |
Wuzzy |
yeah, me too. TOO cheesy |
| 17:21 |
Wuzzy |
it doesn't even make sense |
| 17:23 |
Wuzzy |
"Huge random worlds. Dig. Craft. Build. Survive." |
| 17:23 |
Wuzzy |
meh, i dont like that one, really |
| 17:23 |
greeter |
"Huge pseudo random worlds. Dig. Craft. Build. Do stuff." :-P |
| 17:24 |
Wuzzy |
"Do stuff." pretty much summarizes the gameplay xD |
| 17:24 |
Wuzzy |
I think what the description deefinitely must emphasize is that Minetest supports multiple subgames |
| 17:24 |
Wuzzy |
this is THE most crucial feature in MT in my opinion |
| 17:25 |
greeter |
Many games in one. Explore different worlds. |
| 17:25 |
Wuzzy |
nah |
| 17:25 |
greeter |
actually that sounds more like nethack than minetest |
| 17:25 |
Wuzzy |
MT is not a game |
| 17:25 |
Wuzzy |
Nethack lol |
| 17:26 |
Wuzzy |
Maybe MT should have been called "Minehack" xD |
| 17:26 |
Wuzzy |
Or Netcraft? XXXXD |
| 17:26 |
greeter |
netcraft sounds cooler |
| 17:29 |
celeron55 |
"A hate and doubt generating tool quite much in the shape of minecraft. A bit like a sausage." |
| 17:29 |
Wuzzy |
o_O |
| 17:30 |
Wuzzy |
wow. thats... creative. XD |
| 17:30 |
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| 17:30 |
celeron55 |
i'm going with this |
| 17:31 |
paramat |
hehe |
| 17:31 |
celeron55 |
"Get on board imagining ways to say minecraft without saying it!" |
| 17:34 |
Shara |
:D |
| 17:34 |
Wuzzy |
"If the world would be a cube … Explore and survive in random worlds, dig deep mines, build what you can imagine." |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
i'm wondering when they day might come when people actually realize there's no sane way to seriously describe minetest |
| 17:34 |
celeron55 |
the* |
| 17:34 |
Wuzzy |
i'm sure there is |
| 17:34 |
Wuzzy |
i just think you don't take anything serious anymore. :D |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
the thing is, we could make a term for what it is, probably |
| 17:35 |
celeron55 |
because it's really not like anything on the market |
| 17:35 |
Wuzzy |
you mean, for the genre? |
| 17:35 |
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| 17:35 |
Wuzzy |
well the term for tht would be "Minetest" |
| 17:35 |
Wuzzy |
"Minetest. Enough said." |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
in the simplest form you end up saying "it's not really a game and not really an engine, but you do play it" |
| 17:36 |
Wuzzy |
how is it not *really* an engine? |
| 17:36 |
celeron55 |
well it's *an* engine, but not such a one that people have seen |
| 17:37 |
celeron55 |
"kind of like a web browser, but for block games" |
| 17:37 |
Wuzzy |
shame that MT is not Lord of the Rings themed |
| 17:38 |
Wuzzy |
"One voxel engine to rule them all!" |
| 17:38 |
Wuzzy |
well initially i tried " Minetest is a program on which you can play many games which are set in a world entirely made out of blocks." |
| 17:38 |
celeron55 |
"made like it ruled the world, but it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time, but trust us!" |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:39 |
Wuzzy |
"You have entered the realm of chaos. Expect nothing. Be surprised. Have fun anyway. |
| 17:40 |
celeron55 |
"This is not the software you were looking for. Enjoy!" |
| 17:41 |
Wuzzy |
"Well, at least we tried." |
| 17:41 |
Wuzzy |
"Did you mean “Minecraft� No, you didn't!" |
| 17:41 |
CalebDavis |
"Unamed" |
| 17:41 |
celeron55 |
we can just make a list of these and make the site pick a random one |
| 17:41 |
Wuzzy |
lol |
| 17:41 |
celeron55 |
then google can decide which one it puts in its search results |
| 17:41 |
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| 17:41 |
Wuzzy |
hhhhahahahah |
| 17:42 |
Wuzzy |
"Because hackers want to play with blocks, too." |
| 17:42 |
celeron55 |
that was a serious suggestion, by the way |
| 17:43 |
Wuzzy |
but most of the sentences so far were not serious. ;) |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
also i think the best screenshot gallery would be one which just takes the newest screenshots from the forum |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
would be quite lively |
| 17:43 |
Wuzzy |
there will be a lot of garbage |
| 17:43 |
celeron55 |
who cares |
| 17:43 |
Wuzzy |
but current screenshot gallery is crap anyway, it cant get much worse XD |
| 17:44 |
deltasquared |
I was trying to take a good one of caverealms earlier with full viewing range enabled, but my machine nearly OOM'd from keeping all the chunks cached |
| 17:44 |
Wuzzy |
"Build with blocks. Enough said!" |
| 17:44 |
deltasquared |
heh, does MT need quirky startup screen text like MC does |
| 17:45 |
Wuzzy |
no |
| 17:45 |
deltasquared |
aww. |
| 17:45 |
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| 17:45 |
Wuzzy |
We are looking for a better text on the homepage |
| 17:45 |
celeron55 |
"A cult of block-worshipping penguins" |
| 17:45 |
Wuzzy |
but we're not being serious so far XD |
| 17:45 |
Wuzzy |
"Join the order of Mese." |
| 17:46 |
deltasquared |
"redstone infidels will be converted"? |
| 17:46 |
celeron55 |
the good thing is, i own the domain and can swiftly replace the website with anything |
| 17:46 |
celeron55 |
just need to be, like, not lazy |
| 17:46 |
Wuzzy |
if you can get rid of the JS bullcrap, you will forever be my hero |
| 17:46 |
deltasquared |
there's JS? I hadn't noticed |
| 17:47 |
deltasquared |
though that's partly because I don't load CSS by default either |
| 17:47 |
celeron55 |
lol that's hardcore |
| 17:47 |
Wuzzy |
ok not loading JS makes sense but not loading CSS? wow |
| 17:47 |
deltasquared |
celeron55: it makes many sites suprisingly readable once you get over the eyesaw of the default look |
| 17:47 |
paramat |
hm latest screenshots from the screenshots thread would be good, maybe alongside a few fixed ones |
| 17:47 |
deltasquared |
given than I primarily use the web for reading... |
| 17:47 |
Wuzzy |
ahhh |
| 17:48 |
Wuzzy |
yeah, sadly almost everyone sucks at webdesign |
| 17:48 |
deltasquared |
but yeah most people would look at my setup and think "what the hell have you done to firefox" |
| 17:48 |
Wuzzy |
too much visual distractions, i agree |
| 17:48 |
deltasquared |
I have a separate profile which is left at defaults and loads everything |
| 17:48 |
deltasquared |
for "web app" stuff |
| 17:48 |
Wuzzy |
but this is mainly a failure of the Web itself |
| 17:48 |
Wuzzy |
because every website wants to look different. |
| 17:48 |
Calinou |
celeron55: welcome to open source :P |
| 17:48 |
deltasquared |
whereas I can have a consistent look and feel! win! |
| 17:49 |
Calinou |
where a majority of the users have non-standard use cases |
| 17:49 |
Calinou |
(for some reason) |
| 17:49 |
deltasquared |
Calinou: open source is driven by people fixing their own itches |
| 17:49 |
deltasquared |
(if not by money) |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
i wish minetest.net could just be a browser version of minetest with link blocks to the wiki and forum |
| 17:49 |
Calinou |
true, this doesn't mean you have to cater to everyone's use cases, because that's impossible |
| 17:49 |
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| 17:49 |
deltasquared |
Calinou: oh for sure. my attitude is "show me the code" |
| 17:50 |
paramat |
wow the 6 gallery screenshots are dull |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
"show me the license" |
| 17:50 |
Shara |
I was thinking about the screenshots there while we prepared the #live leaflets. They really are dull. |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
(that's what it usually feels like when searching for open source software) |
| 17:50 |
paramat |
the page doesn't express how easy modding is, that's important |
| 17:51 |
deltasquared |
Calinou: oh yeah btw, how pedantic do you want me to be with the CC-BY-SA license requirements if I make a derivative of one of the default ore textures that are authored by yourself? I can show you what I have so far |
| 17:51 |
deltasquared |
(it's based on the copper ore overlay) |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
the website is like it was made as part of the USSR give year plan |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
five year plan* |
| 17:51 |
Wuzzy |
paramat: good point, but it goes to the lower section. not to the very top |
| 17:51 |
celeron55 |
(ok i'm half asleep apparently) |
| 17:51 |
Calinou |
deltasquared: you don't have to care :P |
| 17:51 |
Calinou |
just follow the original Minetest texture license requirements |
| 17:51 |
Wuzzy |
the upper part should be pointed to players who dont know anything =) |
| 17:51 |
Calinou |
(i.e. you don't have to attribute me specifically) |
| 17:52 |
deltasquared |
Calinou: ... oh. the readme here shows what I have thus far https://github.com/thetaepsilon-gamedev/minetest-mod-redstone |
| 17:52 |
Wuzzy |
"Explore various games set in a blocky world." |
| 17:52 |
deltasquared |
I suspect I'd get yelled at by mojang^W microsoft sooner |
| 17:52 |
Calinou |
Shara: the screenshots are dull because I didn't look into making better ones that didn't scream "patchwork of 100 mods" |
| 17:52 |
Calinou |
(i.e. most servers out there) |
| 17:52 |
Wuzzy |
deltasquared: ... you make a redstone mod?! |
| 17:52 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: I intend to |
| 17:53 |
deltasquared |
it's just an item/node right now |
| 17:53 |
deltasquared |
*but* |
| 17:53 |
Shara |
Calinou: even just MTG can look nice if you take some time over it. |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
the redstone is probably a trademark of Mojang by now |
| 17:53 |
Wuzzy |
deltasquared: you should know about MineClone 2 then |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
(maybe it's registered, not sure) |
| 17:53 |
Wuzzy |
Calinou: proof it! |
| 17:53 |
deltasquared |
Calinou: I considered making it a parody if it became a problem, aka greenstone :P |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
Shara: yeah, but I haven't found nice "vanilla" buildings I could take screenshots of |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
and I am not a good builder myself |
| 17:53 |
Shara |
Even just landscapes would be fine |
| 17:53 |
Calinou |
Wuzzy: not all trademarks are registered |
| 17:54 |
Wuzzy |
Calinou: if redstone is not a a trademark, let's register it and troll Microsoft? :D |
| 17:54 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: prior art |
| 17:54 |
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| 17:54 |
Wuzzy |
i dont know if this is even possible but XD |
| 17:54 |
deltasquared |
I wouldn't test it |
| 17:54 |
Wuzzy |
i think "prior art" refers to patents |
| 17:54 |
deltasquared |
... right |
| 17:54 |
Enricoo |
hey |
| 17:54 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: I'm writing a mod library to do connected node networks for pipeworks, but it should be general enough for other mods, I figured redstone would be a simple test of determining which nodes were connected |
| 17:54 |
Calinou |
prior art also is a thing in trademarks |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
and no, you can't register it yourself in the same domain |
| 17:55 |
Calinou |
due to prior art |
| 17:55 |
Wuzzy |
daaaamn |
| 17:55 |
Wuzzy |
would be most epic troll ever |
| 17:56 |
Wuzzy |
deltasquared: so you do not wish to collaborate at all? |
| 17:56 |
Wuzzy |
*sad face* |
| 17:56 |
sofar |
the "prior art" term is called "non-enforced trademark" in trademark law |
| 17:56 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: ... oh, I didn't say that |
| 17:56 |
deltasquared |
it's just that it's a little tangled to my head atm, I'll think about it |
| 17:57 |
sofar |
I wouldn't use "prior art" for trademarks, since terminology is vastly different and people confuse trademark and patent law everywhere |
| 17:57 |
deltasquared |
sofar: or just smear it as "intellectual property infringement" |
| 17:57 |
Wuzzy |
well if MS would have taken "redstone" as trademark we would probably know at this point so far |
| 17:57 |
sofar |
that would cover both patent law and trademark law |
| 17:57 |
Wuzzy |
MCL2 is certaily not the only game with Redstone in it |
| 17:57 |
sofar |
easy enough to do a search |
| 17:57 |
deltasquared |
"red stone" (with a space) is registered a couple of time in the UK's db, not sure about everywhere else |
| 17:58 |
deltasquared |
though, none by companies I would think would call it "confusingly similar" |
| 17:58 |
Wuzzy |
deltasquared: i doubt its in the "video game" domain, however |
| 17:58 |
Calinou |
sofar: yes, it's not called "prior art" per se |
| 17:58 |
sofar |
101 trademark records found for "redstone" |
| 17:58 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: no, these look like masonry type places |
| 17:58 |
Calinou |
Wuzzy: trademarks are not necessarily declared as such |
| 17:58 |
Calinou |
(some companies are overzealous about it, some underzealous :P) |
| 17:59 |
deltasquared |
if I was really worried about this I would ask someone in my uni's school of law before going onto a real lawyer |
| 17:59 |
Calinou |
funny thing is, Windows developer builds are called Redstone sometimes |
| 17:59 |
Wuzzy |
well there are millions of trademark, i am not stopping to use a word because there *might possibly* a trademark |
| 17:59 |
Calinou |
they didn't do so before the Mojang purchase |
| 17:59 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: yep, that's my thought on it too |
| 17:59 |
Calinou |
Wuzzy: if it's in the same domain (and might confuse users), it is illegal, like it or not |
| 17:59 |
sofar |
I'm 100% sure they did search |
| 18:00 |
sofar |
standard legal procedure for corporate purchases |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:00 |
sofar |
know all legal angles of what you're buying |
| 18:00 |
Calinou |
yeah, gotta keep the legal departments busy :) |
| 18:00 |
Wuzzy |
Calinou: it is impossible to know every trademark. so not using any particular word is insainity |
| 18:01 |
deltasquared |
crap like this is why I always public domain everything I do, I can't be bothering with this kind of thing (I know that doesn't affect trademark issues) |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
you don't spend 5bln without asking your lawyer "could we get sued" |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
trademarks do not prevent you from using a word in casual conversation |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
hey, Word is a registered trademark :^) |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
deltasquared: public domain may not shield you from liability |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
yes, don't use "public domain" as-is |
| 18:01 |
sofar |
deltasquared: you should prefer a license with an explicit no warranty clause |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
use CC0 or the Unlicense |
| 18:01 |
deltasquared |
sofar: oh, I use the unlicense, that's what I meant |
| 18:01 |
Calinou |
(note that the CC0 isn't OSI-approved) |
| 18:02 |
Wuzzy |
besides. I do not use "Redstone" to name a particular product |
| 18:02 |
deltasquared |
yeah I unlicense everything I do, with the express exception of that one texture I derived from Calinou's texture |
| 18:02 |
Wuzzy |
just because a word is trademarked does NOT mean you're not allowed to use this word, ever. |
| 18:02 |
Wuzzy |
otherwise we would get sued each time we say "Microsoft". XD |
| 18:03 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: ... or they'd sue us every time we said something bad about them :P |
| 18:03 |
Wuzzy |
long story short. Redstone is not going away from MCL2. Period. |
| 18:03 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: well I for sure ain't going to rename my mod any time soon |
| 18:03 |
deltasquared |
unless I get an angry cease and desist |
| 18:04 |
Calinou |
Wuzzy: well, MineClone is a "dissident" project anyway :P |
| 18:04 |
Calinou |
deltasquared: thankfully, it is unlikely you get a C&D for thgis |
| 18:04 |
Calinou |
(but possible) |
| 18:04 |
Calinou |
this* |
| 18:04 |
Wuzzy |
possible?! |
| 18:04 |
sofar |
Wuzzy is a dissident |
| 18:04 |
Wuzzy |
how? |
| 18:04 |
Calinou |
nothing's impossible :) |
| 18:05 |
Wuzzy |
on what legal basis? |
| 18:05 |
Wuzzy |
none |
| 18:05 |
Calinou |
it would result in good publicity for you, and bad publicity for them |
| 18:05 |
Calinou |
so they won't do it anyway |
| 18:05 |
Wuzzy |
again: on what legal basis? |
| 18:05 |
sofar |
depends on the cost/benefits |
| 18:05 |
Wuzzy |
AGAIN: on what legal basis? |
| 18:05 |
sofar |
if some analyst convinces them that suing could get them more sales,... |
| 18:05 |
Calinou |
yeah, I doubt it :P |
| 18:06 |
Calinou |
Wuzzy: I don't know, some lawyers are trick masters |
| 18:06 |
Wuzzy |
well this sounds quite constructed |
| 18:06 |
Wuzzy |
i mean that analyst thing |
| 18:06 |
Wuzzy |
MS is not dumb |
| 18:09 |
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| 18:09 |
rubenwardy |
minetest being a block bas |
| 18:10 |
Wuzzy |
Blockbuster? |
| 18:10 |
rubenwardy |
minetest veing a block based isnt the interesting part, other games have that |
| 18:10 |
Wuzzy |
"Minetest: The literal blockbuster game." |
| 18:11 |
rubenwardy |
the interestinf part is that the gameay is pushed to lua mods |
| 18:11 |
rubenwardy |
this remote desktop app truly sucks, jesus christ |
| 18:12 |
dogetest |
free and open voxel platform |
| 18:12 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: Waiting for Good Open Source Remote Desktopâ„¢ |
| 18:12 |
dogetest |
too serious |
| 18:12 |
rubenwardy |
this one is proprietary and still sucks |
| 18:13 |
paramat |
the easy modding was half the reason i chose MT (other was world height) |
| 18:13 |
rubenwardy |
serious is fine. platform is vague |
| 18:13 |
dogetest |
MT is vague |
| 18:13 |
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| 18:13 |
Wuzzy |
hhaha right. MC still has a tiny world height |
| 18:13 |
Wuzzy |
I think the MT community is still not laughing HARD ENOUGH at MC for that. :) |
| 18:14 |
Wuzzy |
"Minetest is a test to test if we can convert you from Minecaft." |
| 18:14 |
fwhcat |
Even easier with your awesome MineClone2 Wuzzy :D |
| 18:14 |
Wuzzy |
"Welcome, test subject number 43590345 …" |
| 18:14 |
rubenwardy |
at the conference someone tried digging down to find the bottom of the world |
| 18:14 |
Calinou |
HAHA |
| 18:14 |
Calinou |
-caps |
| 18:15 |
Wuzzy |
lol how far did they go |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
about a minute until i felt like telling them |
| 18:15 |
Wuzzy |
and at which point did they get bored when they realized that nothing new happened? :D |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
i was talking to someone else at the time so had an excuse |
| 18:15 |
rubenwardy |
but waa laughing slightly |
| 18:16 |
deltasquared |
did they not think to look at the co-ords and notice they were negative? :> |
| 18:16 |
deltasquared |
well, the Y at least |
| 18:16 |
deltasquared |
"we had cubic chunks before it was cool" |
| 18:16 |
Wuzzy |
that wouldnt actually tell them how big the world is |
| 18:16 |
Wuzzy |
it just means the origin is different |
| 18:17 |
deltasquared |
... hmm, though I thought the fact that it was a negative Y would be enough of a hint to ask |
| 18:17 |
deltasquared |
that their assumption was incorrect |
| 18:17 |
Wuzzy |
not really |
| 18:17 |
deltasquared |
... darn |
| 18:17 |
Wuzzy |
because the MT world migh tas well stop at Y=-62 |
| 18:17 |
Wuzzy |
thats about how deep you can get in MC |
| 18:18 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: so uh, how good is your grasp of abstract graph theory? |
| 18:18 |
deltasquared |
re: the redstone thing |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy |
kinda |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy |
do you want to completely replace the mesecons code? |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy |
i.e. "complete rewrite"? |
| 18:19 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: nah, I don't intend to depose mesecons |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy |
okay |
| 18:19 |
deltasquared |
not unless it exceeds my wildest expectations |
| 18:19 |
Wuzzy |
I'm not a fan of complete rewrites, you know? :) |
| 18:20 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: bah, if anything it would just be an alternate vs a re-write |
| 18:20 |
Wuzzy |
deltasquared: note that MCL2 already has some redstone thingies working ... poorly. XD |
| 18:20 |
Wuzzy |
its still mostly mesecons-like |
| 18:21 |
Wuzzy |
deltasquared: the most important change compared to mesecons is the limited power |
| 18:21 |
Wuzzy |
e.g. in mesecons there are no power levels. everything is powered inifnitely |
| 18:21 |
Wuzzy |
in redsone, power drops to 0 after about 15 blocks |
| 18:21 |
deltasquared |
Wuzzy: actually, given the nature of the network code I'm writing for pipeworks, I wouldn't be perfectly emulating redstone there either |
| 18:21 |
Wuzzy |
thats why you need repeaters |
| 18:21 |
Wuzzy |
oh |
| 18:21 |
deltasquared |
it'd be more akin to redpower 2/project:red |
| 18:22 |
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| 18:23 |
Wuzzy |
And I think i will soon return to be active in MCL2 again. took me long enough XD |
| 18:23 |
Wuzzy |
daaamn. we still have nno real slogan for MT :( |
| 18:24 |
deltasquared |
voxels want to be free too? |
| 18:24 |
deltasquared |
anyway, I gotta go, dinner's ready |
| 18:24 |
Wuzzy |
Play various games. Explore random worlds, dig deep mines, build tall skyscapers |
| 18:24 |
Wuzzy |
lol @ quit message |
| 18:24 |
o11c |
get irritated by horrible mountain generation |
| 18:25 |
Wuzzy |
o11c: where? |
| 18:25 |
freelikegnu |
Minetest: It's not a game |
| 18:25 |
o11c |
Wuzzy: v7 is notorious for weird mountains |
| 18:25 |
Wuzzy |
Minetest: “game†as in “engineâ€, not as in “beer†|
| 18:25 |
o11c |
flat + hills + lakes is a much saner generator |
| 18:26 |
freelikegnu |
I like that Wuzzy |
| 18:26 |
Wuzzy |
the terrain generators in MT are pretty strong, but its a pain to set up a world with weird mapgen config |
| 18:26 |
freelikegnu |
maybe it should of been called Minengine |
| 18:26 |
Wuzzy |
noooooo |
| 18:26 |
Wuzzy |
not another "lets rename minetest" discussion again :( |
| 18:27 |
freelikegnu |
hey that was past tense |
| 18:27 |
Wuzzy |
"Minetest: It's not a test. We're actually being serious! No kidding!" |
| 18:27 |
o11c |
well, the default is weird |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
i propose a rename to ã¿ãテスト |
| 18:27 |
sfan5 |
nobody will be able to read it |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
problem easily solved |
| 18:28 |
Wuzzy |
o11c: i think you should talk to paramat :) |
| 18:28 |
o11c |
I tried adjusting the scales in config for a while, but I couldn't find anything I was happy with |
| 18:28 |
Wuzzy |
sfan5: how do you pronounce it? :/ |
| 18:28 |
Wuzzy |
is this even a word or just a random sequence of characters? :D |
| 18:28 |
sfan5 |
it reads as "minetest" (yes, really) |
| 18:28 |
o11c |
yeah, I google-translated that immediately |
| 18:29 |
freelikegnu |
ã¿ãテストwould be a great name for a BladeRunner subgame |
| 18:30 |
Wuzzy |
"Minetest: The test that never ends." |
| 18:30 |
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| 18:30 |
o11c |
anyway, one thing that I think minetest *loses* in comparison to Dwarf Fortress is the ability to *choose* where in the world you start |
| 18:31 |
o11c |
I've been imagining a mapgen that creates a rough minimap in the sky |
| 18:31 |
Wuzzy |
well, spawning in MT is very crappy anyway |
| 18:31 |
o11c |
the current "biomes are totally random" wouldn't play very nicely with that |
| 18:32 |
freelikegnu |
get ready for incoming Allwinner/mali400 board users |
| 18:33 |
o11c |
incidentally |
| 18:33 |
o11c |
one irritating bug I've hit is that if you have multiple modpacks containing the same mod, there's no way to choose which one gets loaded |
| 18:33 |
o11c |
my solution is to download all modpacks *out* of the mods/ directory, then symlink everything into a modpack of my own |
| 18:36 |
freelikegnu |
I guess that would work if they all use the same version of the same mods? |
| 18:38 |
o11c |
mod->mod version dependencies are relatively rare, or at least easily fixable if you upgrade to the latest version of things |
| 18:38 |
o11c |
mod->engine dependencies are the real bitch |
| 18:41 |
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| 19:07 |
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| 19:08 |
Dargod |
How can I remove the disappearance of blocks on a large ping? |
| 19:09 |
sfan5 |
you mean when placing? |
| 19:11 |
Dargod |
yes |
| 19:12 |
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| 19:12 |
deltasquared |
ach, my puir wee head |
| 19:13 |
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| 19:17 |
sfan5 |
Dargod: i don't think there's anything you can do |
| 19:18 |
Dargod |
sfan5, that is, it does not solve on the server side? |
| 19:18 |
sfan5 |
placing prediction is entirely client-side |
| 19:18 |
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| 19:18 |
sfan5 |
you can't influence it server-side (except for disabling which would make it even worse) |
| 19:18 |
o11c |
I'm not convinced placing prediction is a good thing at all |
| 19:19 |
rubenwardy |
as long as there's no node protection and no players near you, latency shouldn't cause blocks to disappear |
| 19:19 |
rubenwardy |
I guess this may be a side effect of only full mapblocks being sent |
| 19:20 |
rubenwardy |
shouldn't, meaning it ideally shouldn't. In practice the engine may work differently |
| 19:21 |
o11c |
crops are the only time I notice it |
| 19:22 |
asl97 |
o11c: without it, you be waiting at least half a second to 5 seconds or more per block placement |
| 19:23 |
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| 19:25 |
o11c |
... why? |
| 19:28 |
asl97 |
fall into a hole and want to climb up? painfully slow block placement, want to build a bridge? another painfully slow block placement. |
| 19:28 |
asl97 |
you can't place a block on a block which hasn't been placed yet, the prediction allows that. |
| 19:29 |
Dargod |
but what if the information about the placed block does not reach the server and it returns a void? |
| 19:30 |
asl97 |
then the block disappear and you fall to your death |
| 19:30 |
asl97 |
xD |
| 19:31 |
Dargod |
but I'm interested in the reason itself. Feature UDP protocol? |
| 19:31 |
asl97 |
the predicting ain't perfect, but it could still be improve with a little more client side scripting. |
| 19:34 |
asl97 |
afaik, placed block rarely get lost, it's more likely for a server mod to forbit or override the placement. |
| 19:36 |
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| 19:38 |
Wuzzy |
how do I hunt down Lua OOM bugs? |
| 19:39 |
twoelk |
didn# |
| 19:39 |
twoelk |
didn't fixer have a nice testbed |
| 19:39 |
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| 19:57 |
paramat |
o11c "I've been imagining a mapgen that creates a rough minimap in the sky" watershed has a companion 3D map mod for it https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8609 |
| 19:57 |
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| 20:01 |
paramat |
i would like to add a way for players to be spawned scattered over the world, creates a very interesting multiplayer dynamic |
| 20:04 |
Fixer |
+1 |
| 20:05 |
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| 20:11 |
Calinou |
paramat: can be done via a mod easily |
| 20:11 |
Calinou |
or just increase the random spawn radius |
| 20:11 |
Calinou |
(which happens when static_spawnpoint isn't set) |
| 20:16 |
o11c |
paramat: I'd like something like the way trading and diplomacy works in DF |
| 20:18 |
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| 20:31 |
paramat |
a mod can't access the 'terrain level at point' function for each mapgen (yet) that are needed to spawn a player at the correct y. and the idea is so good i'd like to have it in the engine |
| 20:31 |
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| 20:34 |
dogetest |
can MT open a browser from a mod? |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
no |
| 20:36 |
Krock |
but we have an issue for that :P |
| 20:37 |
rubenwardy |
we have plenty of issues |
| 20:38 |
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| 20:39 |
dogetest |
I want to add ads |
| 20:39 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 20:40 |
rubenwardy |
just install this mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13236 |
| 20:40 |
dogetest |
thats cool |
| 20:41 |
dogetest |
but I want real ads |
| 20:42 |
dogetest |
dropbox... |
| 20:44 |
rubenwardy |
that's not something we're ever going to add support for - opening ads |
| 20:44 |
dogetest |
? |
| 20:45 |
rubenwardy |
at most we'd allow clicking of links or a button to open a link with a warning dialog |
| 20:45 |
dogetest |
is it possible already? |
| 20:45 |
rubenwardy |
sense you're joking though |
| 20:45 |
rubenwardy |
hopefully |
| 20:46 |
dogetest |
im not |
| 20:46 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest isn't the game for you |
| 20:46 |
rubenwardy |
if you want to make money, you'll have better luck at that other game |
| 20:46 |
dogetest |
I doing for the fun |
| 20:46 |
sofar |
if you're not giving the money to minetest... |
| 20:47 |
dogetest |
my idea is of a mod, similar to advertising, but with real ads, so as to monetize servers |
| 20:50 |
benrob0329 |
dogetest: oh hell naw |
| 20:51 |
benrob0329 |
Ads are bad enough on Gmod servers, we don't need them on Minetest too |
| 20:51 |
deltasquared |
to be fair we can't stop server owners from doing that |
| 20:51 |
deltasquared |
though I would not condone creating the facility to allow it |
| 20:51 |
sofar |
I'd have no issue with server owners doing that |
| 20:51 |
dogetest |
and its actually good for them |
| 20:52 |
sofar |
well, what is good for them isn't necessarily good for players |
| 20:52 |
deltasquared |
web related stuff has security issues in any case |
| 20:52 |
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| 20:52 |
dogetest |
Im not talking about pervasive ads |
| 20:52 |
paramat |
good grief =/ |
| 20:52 |
sofar |
the server owner shooting up coke from ad money isn't necessarily good for players |
| 20:52 |
benrob0329 |
It would need to not impact performance, and not be intrusive |
| 20:52 |
Shara |
A server owner can do what they like on their server... But would I play on a server, or even be willing to help a server, that did that? |
| 20:53 |
deltasquared |
dogetest: I think sofar is *categorically* saying ads are bad, regardless of "level" |
| 20:53 |
nore |
+1 Shara |
| 20:53 |
dogetest |
Shara: what if this server would be acting like a bitcoin faucet? |
| 20:53 |
rubenwardy |
any server that did that likely wouldn't get players anyway |
| 20:53 |
Shara |
It would have to be a placeable node players could choose to include in their build. |
| 20:53 |
sofar |
deltasquared: no, that's not what I'm saying |
| 20:53 |
deltasquared |
sofar: ok fine then, I stand corrected |
| 20:53 |
deltasquared |
in this context perhaps, but eh |
| 20:53 |
Shara |
And I can't see a way to really make it work that would be non-intrusive even then |
| 20:54 |
deltasquared |
I would be for voluntary clicking links with a confirm dialog, it'd be handy for in-chat pastebins etc. |
| 20:54 |
Shara |
dogetest: As much as I sometimes wish people would pay me to run servers, the playability of my servers will always come before profit |
| 20:54 |
deltasquared |
inb4 server owners make you click a link to an ad-infested page to get a sign-in token |
| 20:55 |
deltasquared |
needless to say you wouldn't win any favours for something like that |
| 20:56 |
benrob0329 |
Adblock for Minetest, when? |
| 20:56 |
dogetest |
lol |
| 20:56 |
deltasquared |
benrob0329: lel hopefully it won't come to that |
| 20:56 |
paramat |
we won't do anything that is specifically for supporting ads :] |
| 20:57 |
deltasquared |
+1 paramat |
| 20:57 |
deltasquared |
amen as it were |
| 20:57 |
rubenwardy |
we also won't do anything that will allow opening a window without the user realising that's what it does |
| 20:59 |
deltasquared |
rubenwardy: so, big fat "EXTERNAL LINK WARNING" type thing? |
| 20:59 |
deltasquared |
something built into the engine that can't be spoofed |
| 20:59 |
rubenwardy |
essentially |
| 21:00 |
rubenwardy |
this feature isn't a priority as such, however |
| 21:00 |
deltasquared |
clickable links in chat would be nice though. I seem to be unable to select text in the chat log so getting URLs is a tad difficult |
| 21:02 |
deltasquared |
benrob0329: could be worse, TF2 has full HTML MOTDs which will open iframes and such |
| 21:03 |
deltasquared |
I just turn them off. |
| 21:03 |
benrob0329 |
deltasquared: Gmod can do that |
| 21:03 |
benrob0329 |
Gmod has full HTML UI |
| 21:04 |
deltasquared |
hmm. |
| 21:04 |
deltasquared |
it's been a while for me with GMod so I wouldn't know |
| 21:05 |
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| 21:10 |
sofar |
just fix copy+paste and be done with it |
| 21:14 |
paramat |
^ yes |
| 21:16 |
deltasquared |
that'd work too I guess :P |
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| 23:03 |
orbea |
anyone mind taking a look at this crash triggered by the meshnode mod? https://github.com/stujones11/meshnode/issues/6#issuecomment-341565490 It kind of looks like a crash in the engine? |
| 23:04 |
rubenwardy |
very odd |
| 23:05 |
orbea |
yea, it seems to be puzzling the mod's creator too... |
| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
definitely an engine issue in one way or another |
| 23:05 |
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| 23:05 |
orbea |
maybe I should make an issue for minetest itself? |
| 23:06 |
rubenwardy |
it would be good to make a minimal piece of code that can replicate the problem |
| 23:07 |
orbea |
That does sound good, but I dont think im up for the task. I'll try to ask the mod's creator about that when he notices his repo's activity :) |
| 23:12 |
rubenwardy |
commented |
| 23:14 |
orbea |
thanks |
| 23:17 |
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| 23:37 |
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| 23:39 |
sovetskiy |
Hello everybody. How can I get registered recipe for any item I can craft? Is there table like minetest.registered_recipes ? |
| 23:39 |
orbea |
sovetskiy: try the craftguide mode |
| 23:39 |
orbea |
*mod |
| 23:39 |
orbea |
lets you craft a book or sign with all the recipes listed |
| 23:40 |
sovetskiy |
no mods, only default game |
| 23:40 |
orbea |
ah |
| 23:40 |
sovetskiy |
is that table here? http://dev.minetest.net/Global_tables |
| 23:41 |
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| 23:41 |
sovetskiy |
The table minetest.registered_craftitems does not contain recipe, only description if craftable item |
| 23:42 |
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| 23:44 |
o11c |
sovetskiy: minetest is seriously unplayable without mods |
| 23:45 |
o11c |
sovetskiy: I recommend unified_inventory and the doc mod as a minimum |
| 23:45 |
rubenwardy |
ew |
| 23:45 |
sovetskiy |
is that a problem to obtain recipe without any f*cking mod? |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
Minetest is about the mods :P |
| 23:46 |
o11c |
sovetskiy: minetest is *designed* to use mods - too much so IMO |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
you can get recipes here though: https://wiki.minetest.net/Stone |
| 23:46 |
o11c |
sovetskiy: the default game is literally just a collection of mods |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
just search what you want |
| 23:46 |
sovetskiy |
hello ruben. it is BANNED Sergey :-P |
| 23:46 |
rubenwardy |
I know |
| 23:47 |
sovetskiy |
so what table I should use? |
| 23:48 |
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| 23:49 |
sovetskiy |
I want to get smth like { { "group:stone", "group:stone", "group:stone" }, { "", "group:stick", "" }, { "", "group:stick", "" } } for stone pickaxe |
| 23:49 |
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| 23:49 |
sovetskiy |
I want it programmatically inside my mod |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2924 |
| 23:49 |
o11c |
why exactly are you reimplementing unified_inventory? |
| 23:50 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide is good |
| 23:50 |
rubenwardy |
UI is a mess |
| 23:50 |
o11c |
craftguide is clunking compared to UI |
| 23:50 |
sovetskiy |
I don't know anything about unified_inventory or any other mod |
| 23:51 |
sovetskiy |
except worldedit |
| 23:51 |
sovetskiy |
and mapfix |
| 23:51 |
sovetskiy |
the rest I program by myself |
| 23:52 |
sovetskiy |
the question is simple. Can I obtain recipe of e.g. stone pickaxe inside my mod without using third mods? |
| 23:52 |
rubenwardy |
...look at the link I gave you |
| 23:54 |
sovetskiy |
it is mod! |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
no, it's a link to API documentation |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
!rtfd |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
!rtfm |
| 23:54 |
MinetestBot |
Someone thinks you should read the manual. The development wiki is at http://dev.minetest.net, the regular wiki is at http://wiki.minetest.net. |
| 23:54 |
rubenwardy |
that's a helpful link |
| 23:55 |
sovetskiy |
You gave me this https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide |
| 23:55 |
rubenwardy |
<rubenwardy> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2924 |
| 23:55 |
sovetskiy |
it is mod. |
| 23:56 |
rubenwardy |
the first link (lua_api) was to you |
| 23:56 |
rubenwardy |
the other link (craftguide) was mainly to o11c |
| 23:57 |
sovetskiy |
ok. I see minetest.get_craft_recipe(output) function |
