Time  Nick         Message
00:29 GreenDimond  tysm rubenwardy :D
00:30 rubenwardy   yw :D
00:42 greeter      welcome back wilkgr
01:59 wilkgr       Awe thanks greeter :)
02:00 greeter      you're welcome
08:11 jas_         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62unij6YXyY
08:11 jas_         !title
08:11 MinetestBot  jas_: Lonnie Donegan - My Dixie Darling - YouTube
16:22 Wuzzy        celeron55: why did you call this thing "Minetest-c55" initially? it sure is a strange name. ;)
16:22 Calinou      celeron55 = c55
16:23 Calinou      simple as that :P
16:23 Wuzzy        obviously
16:23 Wuzzy        I was more getting at the "Minetest" path of the name
16:23 Wuzzy        part*
16:23 rubenwardy   Minetest - a test as to whether he could make a Minecraft game
16:23 Wuzzy        how do you know?
16:23 rubenwardy   was mentioned a long time ago
16:24 Wuzzy        **TESTING IN PROGES … PLEASE WAIT**
16:24 Wuzzy        ;-)
16:27 rubenwardy   terrible name
16:27 rubenwardy   "Sounds like a test suite for Minecraft" - someone
16:35 Krock        "the world is flat" - someone
16:45 benrob0329   rubenwardy: wasn't mentioned that long ago actually
16:46 rubenwardy   my source is a while ago
16:46 rubenwardy   I mentioned it a few days ago though
16:46 benrob0329   He also said the entirety of Minetest was supposed to be a joke, but we seem to have lost some of that humor :-(
16:46 rubenwardy   in -hub
16:53 frostsnow    benrob0329: IDK if you got the memo, but Minetest is a serious competitive game.
16:54 benrob0329   frostsnow: I believe youre thinking of CS:GO ;-)
17:07 Wuzzy        hello
17:07 greeter      greetings
17:07 Wuzzy        I'm currently trying to think of a better sentence to put on minetest.net (the very homepage)
17:08 Wuzzy        . because the current description is just horrible. :D
17:08 greeter      hmm should probably see what the current sentence is
17:08 Wuzzy        http://minetest.net
17:08 Calinou      <frostsnow> benrob0329: IDK if you got the memo, but Minetest is a serious competitive game.
17:08 Calinou      rush cave
17:08 Calinou      drop mesepickaxe
17:08 Calinou      stonesword noob
17:08 greeter      Minetest is the best game you've never played, unless you've played it :-P
17:08 Calinou      :P
17:08 Wuzzy        awesom.
17:09 Wuzzy        "Minetest is a thing."
17:09 greeter      i like that one
17:09 Wuzzy        "Play a mine tester, the most dangerous job in the world!"
17:10 Wuzzy        ok but for real. we *need* a non-horrible description xd
17:10 Wuzzy        my first idea is:
17:10 Wuzzy        "With Minetest you can play various games which are set in strange worlds made entirely out of blocks."
17:10 Wuzzy        rubenwardy didn't really like it
17:11 Wuzzy        "way too verbose"... wtf
17:12 greeter      eh i'm just looking for ideas. after years of playing MT i'm finally starting to run out lol
17:14 Calinou      "Come see Minetest - we have blocks, items and tools"
17:14 paramat      'near infinite world' is ridiculous and no better than 'infinite world' =D
17:14 Wuzzy        pfff
17:14 greeter      "Find your inner child, play with blocks again."
17:15 Wuzzy        hmmm the idaa is that everyone can understand whta minetets is *really* about
17:15 greeter      to be honest i'm not sure i really understand what it's about
17:16 Wuzzy        I think I do.
17:16 paramat      apparently infinity is a little over 62000
17:16 greeter      62000^3 which is a large number of blocks. course half of them are air nodes and there's no direct interaction with those anyway
17:16 Wuzzy        paramat: i am referring to the very first sentence
17:17 Wuzzy        "A free, open source voxel game engine and game. Fully extendable. You are in control."
17:17 Wuzzy        ^ this horrible abonimation
17:17 Wuzzy        it doesnt make MT interesting, and doesn't really *explain* anyting
17:19 paramat      oh
17:19 paramat      http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491 sets a suitably serious tone for MT
17:19 Wuzzy        "You find yourselves in a strange world in which everything is a cube. Welcome to the world of Minetest."
17:20 paramat      i find 'meet minetest' cheesy :]
17:21 Wuzzy        yeah, me too. TOO cheesy
17:21 Wuzzy        it doesn't even make sense
17:23 Wuzzy        "Huge random worlds. Dig. Craft. Build. Survive."
17:23 Wuzzy        meh, i dont like that one, really
17:23 greeter      "Huge pseudo random worlds. Dig. Craft. Build. Do stuff." :-P
17:24 Wuzzy        "Do stuff." pretty much summarizes the gameplay xD
17:24 Wuzzy        I think what the description deefinitely must emphasize is that Minetest supports multiple subgames
17:24 Wuzzy        this is THE most crucial feature in MT in my opinion
17:25 greeter      Many games in one. Explore different worlds.
17:25 Wuzzy        nah
17:25 greeter      actually that sounds more like nethack than minetest
17:25 Wuzzy        MT is not a game
17:25 Wuzzy        Nethack lol
17:26 Wuzzy        Maybe MT should have been called "Minehack" xD
17:26 Wuzzy        Or Netcraft? XXXXD
17:26 greeter      netcraft sounds cooler
17:29 celeron55    "A hate and doubt generating tool quite much in the shape of minecraft. A bit like a sausage."
17:29 Wuzzy        o_O
17:30 Wuzzy        wow. thats... creative. XD
17:30 celeron55    i'm going with this
17:31 paramat      hehe
17:31 celeron55    "Get on board imagining ways to say minecraft without saying it!"
17:34 Shara        :D
17:34 Wuzzy        "If the world would be a cube … Explore and survive in random worlds, dig deep mines, build what you can imagine."
17:34 celeron55    i'm wondering when they day might come when people actually realize there's no sane way to seriously describe minetest
17:34 celeron55    the*
17:34 Wuzzy        i'm sure there is
17:34 Wuzzy        i just think you don't take anything serious anymore. :D
17:35 celeron55    the thing is, we could make a term for what it is, probably
17:35 celeron55    because it's really not like anything on the market
17:35 Wuzzy        you mean, for the genre?
17:35 Wuzzy        well the term for tht would be "Minetest"
17:35 Wuzzy        "Minetest. Enough said."
17:36 celeron55    in the simplest form you end up saying "it's not really a game and not really an engine, but you do play it"
17:36 Wuzzy        how is it not *really* an engine?
17:36 celeron55    well it's *an* engine, but not such a one that people have seen
17:37 celeron55    "kind of like a web browser, but for block games"
17:37 Wuzzy        shame that MT is not Lord of the Rings themed
17:38 Wuzzy        "One voxel engine to rule them all!"
17:38 Wuzzy        well initially i tried " Minetest is a program on which you can play many games which are set in a world entirely made out of blocks."
17:38 celeron55    "made like it ruled the world, but it's just not there yet and won't be for a long time, but trust us!"
17:39 Wuzzy        "You have entered the realm of chaos. Expect nothing. Be surprised. Have fun anyway.
17:40 celeron55    "This is not the software you were looking for. Enjoy!"
17:41 Wuzzy        "Well, at least we tried."
17:41 Wuzzy        "Did you mean “Minecraft”? No, you didn't!"
17:41 CalebDavis   "Unamed"
17:41 celeron55    we can just make a list of these and make the site pick a random one
17:41 Wuzzy        lol
17:41 celeron55    then google can decide which one it puts in its search results
17:41 Wuzzy        hhhhahahahah
17:42 Wuzzy        "Because hackers want to play with blocks, too."
17:42 celeron55    that was a serious suggestion, by the way
17:43 Wuzzy        but most of the sentences so far were not serious. ;)
17:43 celeron55    also i think the best screenshot gallery would be one which just takes the newest screenshots from the forum
17:43 celeron55    would be quite lively
17:43 Wuzzy        there will be  a lot of garbage
17:43 celeron55    who cares
17:43 Wuzzy        but current screenshot gallery is crap anyway, it cant get much worse XD
17:44 deltasquared I was trying to take a good one of caverealms earlier with full viewing range enabled, but my machine nearly OOM'd from keeping all the chunks cached
17:44 Wuzzy        "Build with blocks. Enough said!"
17:44 deltasquared heh, does MT need quirky startup screen text like MC does
17:45 Wuzzy        no
17:45 deltasquared aww.
17:45 Wuzzy        We are looking for a better text on the homepage
17:45 celeron55    "A cult of block-worshipping penguins"
17:45 Wuzzy        but we're not being serious so far XD
17:45 Wuzzy        "Join the order of Mese."
17:46 deltasquared "redstone infidels will be converted"?
17:46 celeron55    the good thing is, i own the domain and can swiftly replace the website with anything
17:46 celeron55    just need to be, like, not lazy
17:46 Wuzzy        if you can get rid of the JS bullcrap, you will forever be my hero
17:46 deltasquared there's JS? I hadn't noticed
17:47 deltasquared though that's partly because I don't load CSS by default either
17:47 celeron55    lol that's hardcore
17:47 Wuzzy        ok not loading JS makes sense but not loading CSS? wow
17:47 deltasquared celeron55: it makes many sites suprisingly readable once you get over the eyesaw of the default look
17:47 paramat      hm latest screenshots from the screenshots thread would be good, maybe alongside a few fixed ones
17:47 deltasquared given than I primarily use the web for reading...
17:47 Wuzzy        ahhh
17:48 Wuzzy        yeah, sadly almost everyone sucks at webdesign
17:48 deltasquared but yeah most people would look at my setup and think "what the hell have you done to firefox"
17:48 Wuzzy        too much visual distractions, i agree
17:48 deltasquared I have a separate profile which is left at defaults and loads everything
17:48 deltasquared for "web app" stuff
17:48 Wuzzy        but this is mainly a failure of the Web itself
17:48 Wuzzy        because every website wants to look different.
17:48 Calinou      celeron55: welcome to open source :P
17:48 deltasquared whereas I can have a consistent look and feel! win!
17:49 Calinou      where a majority of the users have non-standard use cases
17:49 Calinou      (for some reason)
17:49 deltasquared Calinou: open source is driven by people fixing their own itches
17:49 deltasquared (if not by money)
17:49 celeron55    i wish minetest.net could just be a browser version of minetest with link blocks to the wiki and forum
17:49 Calinou      true, this doesn't mean you have to cater to everyone's use cases, because that's impossible
17:49 deltasquared Calinou: oh for sure. my attitude is "show me the code"
17:50 paramat      wow the 6 gallery screenshots are dull
17:50 celeron55    "show me the license"
17:50 Shara        I was thinking about the screenshots there while we prepared the #live leaflets. They really are dull.
17:50 celeron55    (that's what it usually feels like when searching for open source software)
17:50 paramat      the page doesn't express how easy modding is, that's important
17:51 deltasquared Calinou: oh yeah btw, how pedantic do you want me to be with the CC-BY-SA license requirements if I make a derivative of one of the default ore textures that are authored by yourself? I can show you what I have so far
17:51 deltasquared (it's based on the copper ore overlay)
17:51 celeron55    the website is like it was made as part of the USSR give year plan
17:51 celeron55    five year plan*
17:51 Wuzzy        paramat: good point, but it goes to the lower section. not to the very top
17:51 celeron55    (ok i'm half asleep apparently)
17:51 Calinou      deltasquared: you don't have to care :P
17:51 Calinou      just follow the original Minetest texture license requirements
17:51 Wuzzy        the upper part should be pointed to players who dont know anything =)
17:51 Calinou      (i.e. you don't have to attribute me specifically)
17:52 deltasquared Calinou: ... oh. the readme here shows what I have thus far https://github.com/thetaepsilon-gamedev/minetest-mod-redstone
17:52 Wuzzy        "Explore various games set in a blocky world."
17:52 deltasquared I suspect I'd get yelled at by mojang^W microsoft sooner
17:52 Calinou      Shara: the screenshots are dull because I didn't look into making better ones that didn't scream "patchwork of 100 mods"
17:52 Calinou      (i.e. most servers out there)
17:52 Wuzzy        deltasquared: ... you make a redstone mod?!
17:52 deltasquared Wuzzy: I intend to
17:53 deltasquared it's just an item/node right now
17:53 deltasquared *but*
17:53 Shara        Calinou: even just MTG can look nice if you take some time over it.
17:53 Calinou      the redstone is probably a trademark of Mojang by now
17:53 Wuzzy        deltasquared: you should know about MineClone 2 then
17:53 Calinou      (maybe it's registered, not sure)
17:53 Wuzzy        Calinou: proof it!
17:53 deltasquared Calinou: I considered making it a parody if it became a problem, aka greenstone :P
17:53 Calinou      Shara: yeah, but I haven't found nice "vanilla" buildings I could take screenshots of
17:53 Calinou      and I am not a good builder myself
17:53 Shara        Even just landscapes would be fine
17:53 Calinou      Wuzzy: not all trademarks are registered
17:54 Wuzzy        Calinou: if redstone is not a a trademark, let's register it and troll Microsoft? :D
17:54 deltasquared Wuzzy: prior art
17:54 Wuzzy        i dont know if this is even possible but  XD
17:54 deltasquared I wouldn't test it
17:54 Wuzzy        i think "prior art" refers to patents
17:54 deltasquared ... right
17:54 Enricoo      hey
17:54 deltasquared Wuzzy: I'm writing a mod library to do connected node networks for pipeworks, but it should be general enough for other mods, I figured redstone would be a simple test of determining which nodes were connected
17:54 Calinou      prior art also is a thing in trademarks
17:55 Calinou      and no, you can't register it yourself in the same domain
17:55 Calinou      due to prior art
17:55 Wuzzy        daaaamn
17:55 Wuzzy        would be most epic troll ever
17:56 Wuzzy        deltasquared: so you do not wish to collaborate at all?
17:56 Wuzzy        *sad face*
17:56 sofar        the "prior art" term is called "non-enforced trademark" in trademark law
17:56 deltasquared Wuzzy: ... oh, I didn't say that
17:56 deltasquared it's just that it's a little tangled to my head atm, I'll think about it
17:57 sofar        I wouldn't use "prior art" for trademarks, since terminology is vastly different and people confuse trademark and patent law everywhere
17:57 deltasquared sofar: or just smear it as "intellectual property infringement"
17:57 Wuzzy        well if MS would have taken "redstone" as trademark we would probably know at this point so far
17:57 sofar        that would cover both patent law and trademark law
17:57 Wuzzy        MCL2 is certaily not the only game with Redstone in it
17:57 sofar        easy enough to do a search
17:57 deltasquared "red stone" (with a space) is registered a couple of time in the UK's db, not sure about everywhere else
17:58 deltasquared though, none by companies I would think would call it "confusingly similar"
17:58 Wuzzy        deltasquared: i doubt its in the "video game" domain, however
17:58 Calinou      sofar: yes, it's not called "prior art" per se
17:58 sofar        101 trademark records found for "redstone"
17:58 deltasquared Wuzzy: no, these look like masonry type places
17:58 Calinou      Wuzzy: trademarks are not necessarily declared as such
17:58 Calinou      (some companies are overzealous about it, some underzealous :P)
17:59 deltasquared if I was really worried about this I would ask someone in my uni's school of law before going onto a real lawyer
17:59 Calinou      funny thing is, Windows developer builds are called Redstone sometimes
17:59 Wuzzy        well there are millions of trademark, i am not stopping to use a word because there *might possibly* a trademark
17:59 Calinou      they didn't do so before the Mojang purchase
17:59 deltasquared Wuzzy: yep, that's my thought on it too
17:59 Calinou      Wuzzy: if it's in the same domain (and might confuse users), it is illegal, like it or not
17:59 sofar        I'm 100% sure they did search
18:00 sofar        standard legal procedure for corporate purchases
18:00 sofar        know all legal angles of what you're buying
18:00 Calinou      yeah, gotta keep the legal departments busy :)
18:00 Wuzzy        Calinou: it is impossible to know every trademark. so not using any particular word is insainity
18:01 deltasquared crap like this is why I always public domain everything I do, I can't be bothering with this kind of thing (I know that doesn't affect trademark issues)
18:01 sofar        you don't spend 5bln without asking your lawyer "could we get sued"
18:01 Calinou      trademarks do not prevent you from using a word in casual conversation
18:01 Calinou      hey, Word is a registered trademark :^)
18:01 sofar        deltasquared: public domain may not shield you from liability
18:01 Calinou      yes, don't use "public domain" as-is
18:01 sofar        deltasquared: you should prefer a license with an explicit no warranty clause
18:01 Calinou      use CC0 or the Unlicense
18:01 deltasquared sofar: oh, I use the unlicense, that's what I meant
18:01 Calinou      (note that the CC0 isn't OSI-approved)
18:02 Wuzzy        besides. I do not use "Redstone" to name a particular product
18:02 deltasquared yeah I unlicense everything I do, with the express exception of that one texture I derived from Calinou's texture
18:02 Wuzzy        just because a word is trademarked does NOT mean you're not allowed to use this word, ever.
18:02 Wuzzy        otherwise we would get sued each time we say "Microsoft". XD
18:03 deltasquared Wuzzy: ... or they'd sue us every time we said something bad about them :P
18:03 Wuzzy        long story short. Redstone is not going away from MCL2. Period.
18:03 deltasquared Wuzzy: well I for sure ain't going to rename my mod any time soon
18:03 deltasquared unless I get an angry cease and desist
18:04 Calinou      Wuzzy: well, MineClone is a "dissident" project anyway :P
18:04 Calinou      deltasquared: thankfully, it is unlikely you get a C&D for thgis
18:04 Calinou      (but possible)
18:04 Calinou      this*
18:04 Wuzzy        possible?!
18:04 sofar        Wuzzy is a dissident
18:04 Wuzzy        how?
18:04 Calinou      nothing's impossible :)
18:05 Wuzzy        on what legal basis?
18:05 Wuzzy        none
18:05 Calinou      it would result in good publicity for you, and bad publicity for them
18:05 Calinou      so they won't do it anyway
18:05 Wuzzy        again: on what legal basis?
18:05 sofar        depends on the cost/benefits
18:05 Wuzzy        AGAIN: on what legal basis?
18:05 sofar        if some analyst convinces them that suing could get them more sales,...
18:05 Calinou      yeah, I doubt it :P
18:06 Calinou      Wuzzy: I don't know, some lawyers are trick masters
18:06 Wuzzy        well this sounds quite constructed
18:06 Wuzzy        i mean that analyst thing
18:06 Wuzzy        MS is not dumb
18:09 rubenwardy   minetest being a block bas
18:10 Wuzzy        Blockbuster?
18:10 rubenwardy   minetest veing a block based isnt the interesting part, other games have that
18:10 Wuzzy        "Minetest: The literal blockbuster game."
18:11 rubenwardy   the interestinf part is that the gameay is pushed to lua mods
18:11 rubenwardy   this remote desktop app truly sucks, jesus christ
18:12 dogetest     free and open voxel platform
18:12 Calinou      rubenwardy: Waiting for Good Open Source Remote Desktopâ„¢
18:12 dogetest     too serious
18:12 rubenwardy   this one is proprietary and still sucks
18:13 paramat      the easy modding was half the reason i chose MT (other was world height)
18:13 rubenwardy   serious is fine. platform is vague
18:13 dogetest     MT is vague
18:13 Wuzzy        hhaha right. MC still has a tiny world height
18:13 Wuzzy        I think the MT community is still not laughing HARD ENOUGH at MC for that. :)
18:14 Wuzzy        "Minetest is a test to test if we can convert you from Minecaft."
18:14 fwhcat       Even easier with your awesome MineClone2 Wuzzy :D
18:14 Wuzzy        "Welcome, test subject number 43590345 …"
18:14 rubenwardy   at the conference someone tried digging down to find the bottom of the world
18:14 Calinou      HAHA
18:14 Calinou      -caps
18:15 Wuzzy        lol how far did they go
18:15 rubenwardy   about a minute until i felt like telling them
18:15 Wuzzy        and at which point did they get bored when they realized that nothing new happened? :D
18:15 rubenwardy   i was talking to someone else at the time so had an excuse
18:15 rubenwardy   but waa laughing slightly
18:16 deltasquared did they not think to look at the co-ords and notice they were negative? :>
18:16 deltasquared well, the Y at least
18:16 deltasquared "we had cubic chunks before it was cool"
18:16 Wuzzy        that wouldnt actually tell them how big the world is
18:16 Wuzzy        it just means the origin is different
18:17 deltasquared ... hmm, though I thought the fact that it was a negative Y would be enough of a hint to ask
18:17 deltasquared that their assumption was incorrect
18:17 Wuzzy        not really
18:17 deltasquared ... darn
18:17 Wuzzy        because the MT world migh tas well stop at Y=-62
18:17 Wuzzy        thats about how deep you can get in MC
18:18 deltasquared Wuzzy: so uh, how good is your grasp of abstract graph theory?
18:18 deltasquared re: the redstone thing
18:19 Wuzzy        kinda
18:19 Wuzzy        do you want to completely replace the mesecons code?
18:19 Wuzzy        i.e. "complete rewrite"?
18:19 deltasquared Wuzzy: nah, I don't intend to depose mesecons
18:19 Wuzzy        okay
18:19 deltasquared not unless it exceeds my wildest expectations
18:19 Wuzzy        I'm not a fan of complete rewrites, you know? :)
18:20 deltasquared Wuzzy: bah, if anything it would just be an alternate vs a re-write
18:20 Wuzzy        deltasquared: note that MCL2 already has some redstone thingies working ... poorly. XD
18:20 Wuzzy        its still mostly mesecons-like
18:21 Wuzzy        deltasquared: the most important change compared to mesecons is the limited power
18:21 Wuzzy        e.g. in mesecons there are no power levels. everything is powered inifnitely
18:21 Wuzzy        in redsone, power drops to 0 after about 15 blocks
18:21 deltasquared Wuzzy: actually, given the nature of the network code I'm writing for pipeworks, I wouldn't be perfectly emulating redstone there either
18:21 Wuzzy        thats why you need repeaters
18:21 Wuzzy        oh
18:21 deltasquared it'd be more akin to redpower 2/project:red
18:23 Wuzzy        And I think i will soon return to be active in MCL2 again. took me long enough XD
18:23 Wuzzy        daaamn. we still have nno real slogan for MT :(
18:24 deltasquared voxels want to be free too?
18:24 deltasquared anyway, I gotta go, dinner's ready
18:24 Wuzzy        Play various games. Explore random worlds, dig deep mines, build tall skyscapers
18:24 Wuzzy        lol @ quit message
18:24 o11c         get irritated by horrible mountain generation
18:25 Wuzzy        o11c: where?
18:25 freelikegnu  Minetest: It's not a game
18:25 o11c         Wuzzy: v7 is notorious for weird mountains
18:25 Wuzzy        Minetest: “game” as in “engine”, not as in “beer”
18:25 o11c         flat + hills + lakes is a much saner generator
18:26 freelikegnu  I like that Wuzzy
18:26 Wuzzy        the terrain generators in MT are pretty strong, but its a pain to set up a world with weird mapgen config
18:26 freelikegnu  maybe it should of been called Minengine
18:26 Wuzzy        noooooo
18:26 Wuzzy        not another "lets rename minetest" discussion again :(
18:27 freelikegnu  hey that was past tense
18:27 Wuzzy        "Minetest: It's not a test. We're actually being serious! No kidding!"
18:27 o11c         well, the default is weird
18:27 sfan5        i propose a rename to みねテスト
18:27 sfan5        nobody will be able to read it
18:28 sfan5        problem easily solved
18:28 Wuzzy        o11c: i think you should talk to paramat :)
18:28 o11c         I tried adjusting the scales in config for a while, but I couldn't find anything I was happy with
18:28 Wuzzy        sfan5: how do you pronounce it? :/
18:28 Wuzzy        is this even a word or just a random sequence of characters? :D
18:28 sfan5        it reads as "minetest" (yes, really)
18:28 o11c         yeah, I google-translated that immediately
18:29 freelikegnu  みねテストwould be a great name for a BladeRunner subgame
18:30 Wuzzy        "Minetest: The test that never ends."
18:30 o11c         anyway, one thing that I think minetest *loses* in comparison to Dwarf Fortress is the ability to *choose* where in the world you start
18:31 o11c         I've been imagining a mapgen that creates a rough minimap in the sky
18:31 Wuzzy        well, spawning in MT is very crappy anyway
18:31 o11c         the current "biomes are totally random" wouldn't play very nicely with that
18:32 freelikegnu  get ready for incoming Allwinner/mali400 board users
18:33 o11c         incidentally
18:33 o11c         one irritating bug I've hit is that if you have multiple modpacks containing the same mod, there's no way to choose which one gets loaded
18:33 o11c         my solution is to download all modpacks *out* of the mods/ directory, then symlink everything into a modpack of my own
18:36 freelikegnu  I guess that would work if they all use the same version of the same mods?
18:38 o11c         mod->mod version dependencies are relatively rare, or at least easily fixable if you upgrade to the latest version of things
18:38 o11c         mod->engine dependencies are the real bitch
19:08 Dargod       How can I remove the disappearance of blocks on a large ping?
19:09 sfan5        you mean when placing?
19:11 Dargod       yes
19:12 deltasquared ach, my puir wee head
19:17 sfan5        Dargod: i don't think there's anything you can do
19:18 Dargod       sfan5, that is, it does not solve on the server side?
19:18 sfan5        placing prediction is entirely client-side
19:18 sfan5        you can't influence it server-side (except for disabling which would make it even worse)
19:18 o11c         I'm not convinced placing prediction is a good thing at all
19:19 rubenwardy   as long as there's no node protection and no players near you, latency shouldn't cause blocks to disappear
19:19 rubenwardy   I guess this may be a side effect of only full mapblocks being sent
19:20 rubenwardy   shouldn't, meaning it ideally shouldn't. In practice the engine may work differently
19:21 o11c         crops are the only time I notice it
19:22 asl97        o11c: without it, you be waiting at least half a second to 5 seconds or more per block placement
19:25 o11c         ... why?
19:28 asl97        fall into a hole and want to climb up?  painfully slow block placement,  want to build a bridge? another painfully slow block placement.
19:28 asl97        you can't place a block on a block which hasn't been placed yet, the prediction allows that.
19:29 Dargod       but what if the information about the placed block does not reach the server and it returns a void?
19:30 asl97        then the block disappear and you fall to your death
19:30 asl97        xD
19:31 Dargod       but I'm interested in the reason itself. Feature UDP protocol?
19:31 asl97        the predicting ain't perfect, but it could still be improve with a little more client side scripting.
19:34 asl97        afaik, placed block rarely get lost, it's more likely for a server mod to forbit or override the placement.
19:38 Wuzzy        how do I hunt down Lua OOM bugs?
19:39 twoelk       didn#
19:39 twoelk       didn't fixer have a nice testbed
19:57 paramat      o11c "I've been imagining a mapgen that creates a rough minimap in the sky" watershed has a companion 3D map mod for it https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8609
20:01 paramat      i would like to add a way for players to be spawned scattered over the world, creates a very interesting multiplayer dynamic
20:04 Fixer        +1
20:11 Calinou      paramat: can be done via a mod easily
20:11 Calinou      or just increase the random spawn radius
20:11 Calinou      (which happens when static_spawnpoint isn't set)
20:16 o11c         paramat: I'd like something like the way trading and diplomacy works in DF
20:31 paramat      a mod can't access the 'terrain level at point' function for each mapgen (yet) that are needed to spawn a player at the correct y. and the idea is so good i'd like to have it in the engine
20:34 dogetest     can MT open a browser from a mod?
20:34 rubenwardy   no
20:36 Krock        but we have an issue for that :P
20:37 rubenwardy   we have plenty of issues
20:39 dogetest     I want to add ads
20:39 rubenwardy   lol
20:40 rubenwardy   just install this mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13236
20:40 dogetest     thats cool
20:41 dogetest     but I want real ads
20:42 dogetest     dropbox...
20:44 rubenwardy   that's not something we're ever going to add support for - opening ads
20:44 dogetest     ?
20:45 rubenwardy   at most we'd allow clicking of links or a button to open a link with a warning dialog
20:45 dogetest     is it possible already?
20:45 rubenwardy   sense you're joking though
20:45 rubenwardy   hopefully
20:46 dogetest     im not
20:46 rubenwardy   Minetest isn't the game for you
20:46 rubenwardy   if you want to make money, you'll have better luck at that other game
20:46 dogetest     I doing for the fun
20:46 sofar        if you're not giving the money to minetest...
20:47 dogetest     my idea is of a mod, similar to advertising, but with real ads, so as to monetize servers
20:50 benrob0329   dogetest: oh hell naw
20:51 benrob0329   Ads are bad enough on Gmod servers, we don't need them on Minetest too
20:51 deltasquared to be fair we can't stop server owners from doing that
20:51 deltasquared though I would not condone creating the facility to allow it
20:51 sofar        I'd have no issue with server owners doing that
20:51 dogetest     and its actually good for them
20:52 sofar        well, what is good for them isn't necessarily good for players
20:52 deltasquared web related stuff has security issues in any case
20:52 dogetest     Im not talking about pervasive ads
20:52 paramat      good grief =/
20:52 sofar        the server owner shooting up coke from ad money isn't necessarily good for players
20:52 benrob0329   It would need to not impact performance, and not be intrusive
20:52 Shara        A server owner can do what they like on their server... But would I play on a server, or even be willing to help a server, that did that?
20:53 deltasquared dogetest: I think sofar is *categorically* saying ads are bad, regardless of "level"
20:53 nore         +1 Shara
20:53 dogetest     Shara: what if this server would be acting like a bitcoin faucet?
20:53 rubenwardy   any server that did that likely wouldn't get players anyway
20:53 Shara        It would have to be a placeable node players could choose to include in their build.
20:53 sofar        deltasquared: no, that's not what I'm saying
20:53 deltasquared sofar: ok fine then, I stand corrected
20:53 deltasquared in this context perhaps, but eh
20:53 Shara        And I can't see a way to really make it work that would be non-intrusive even then
20:54 deltasquared I would be for voluntary clicking links with a confirm dialog, it'd be handy for in-chat pastebins etc.
20:54 Shara        dogetest: As much as I sometimes wish people would pay me to run servers, the playability of my servers will always come before profit
20:54 deltasquared inb4 server owners make you click a link to an ad-infested page to get a sign-in token
20:55 deltasquared needless to say you wouldn't win any favours for something like that
20:56 benrob0329   Adblock for Minetest, when?
20:56 dogetest     lol
20:56 deltasquared benrob0329: lel hopefully it won't come to that
20:56 paramat      we won't do anything that is specifically for supporting ads :]
20:57 deltasquared +1 paramat
20:57 deltasquared amen as it were
20:57 rubenwardy   we also won't do anything that will allow opening a window without the user realising that's what it does
20:59 deltasquared rubenwardy: so, big fat "EXTERNAL LINK WARNING" type thing?
20:59 deltasquared something built into the engine that can't be spoofed
20:59 rubenwardy   essentially
21:00 rubenwardy   this feature isn't a priority as such, however
21:00 deltasquared clickable links in chat would be nice though. I seem to be unable to select text in the chat log so getting URLs is a tad difficult
21:02 deltasquared benrob0329: could be worse, TF2 has full HTML MOTDs which will open iframes and such
21:03 deltasquared I just turn them off.
21:03 benrob0329   deltasquared: Gmod can do that
21:03 benrob0329   Gmod has full HTML UI
21:04 deltasquared hmm.
21:04 deltasquared it's been a while for me with GMod so I wouldn't know
21:10 sofar        just fix copy+paste and be done with it
21:14 paramat      ^ yes
21:16 deltasquared that'd work too I guess :P
23:03 orbea        anyone mind taking a look at this crash triggered by the meshnode mod? https://github.com/stujones11/meshnode/issues/6#issuecomment-341565490 It kind of looks like a crash in the engine?
23:04 rubenwardy   very odd
23:05 orbea        yea, it seems to be puzzling the mod's creator too...
23:05 rubenwardy   definitely an engine issue in one way or another
23:05 orbea        maybe I should make an issue for minetest itself?
23:06 rubenwardy   it would be good to make a minimal piece of code that can replicate the problem
23:07 orbea        That does sound good, but I dont think im up for the task. I'll try to ask the mod's creator about that when he notices his repo's activity :)
23:12 rubenwardy   commented
23:14 orbea        thanks
23:39 sovetskiy    Hello everybody. How can I get registered recipe for any item I can craft? Is there table like minetest.registered_recipes ?
23:39 orbea        sovetskiy: try the craftguide mode
23:39 orbea        *mod
23:39 orbea        lets you craft a book or sign with all the recipes listed
23:40 sovetskiy    no mods, only default game
23:40 orbea        ah
23:40 sovetskiy    is that table here? http://dev.minetest.net/Global_tables
23:41 sovetskiy    The table minetest.registered_craftitems does not contain recipe, only description if craftable item
23:44 o11c         sovetskiy: minetest is seriously unplayable without mods
23:45 o11c         sovetskiy: I recommend unified_inventory and the doc mod as a minimum
23:45 rubenwardy   ew
23:45 sovetskiy    is that a problem to obtain recipe without any f*cking mod?
23:46 rubenwardy   Minetest is about the mods :P
23:46 o11c         sovetskiy: minetest is *designed* to use mods - too much so IMO
23:46 rubenwardy   you can get recipes here though: https://wiki.minetest.net/Stone
23:46 o11c         sovetskiy: the default game is literally just a collection of mods
23:46 rubenwardy   just search what you want
23:46 sovetskiy    hello ruben. it is BANNED Sergey :-P
23:46 rubenwardy   I know
23:47 sovetskiy    so what table I should use?
23:49 sovetskiy    I want to get smth like { { "group:stone", "group:stone", "group:stone" }, { "", "group:stick", "" }, { "", "group:stick", "" } } for stone pickaxe
23:49 sovetskiy    I want it programmatically inside my mod
23:49 rubenwardy   https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2924
23:49 o11c         why exactly are you reimplementing unified_inventory?
23:50 rubenwardy   https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide is good
23:50 rubenwardy   UI is a mess
23:50 o11c         craftguide is clunking compared to UI
23:50 sovetskiy    I don't know anything about unified_inventory or any other mod
23:51 sovetskiy    except worldedit
23:51 sovetskiy    and mapfix
23:51 sovetskiy    the rest I program by myself
23:52 sovetskiy    the question is simple. Can I obtain recipe of e.g. stone pickaxe inside my mod without using third mods?
23:52 rubenwardy   ...look at the link I gave you
23:54 sovetskiy    it is mod!
23:54 rubenwardy   no, it's a link to API documentation
23:54 rubenwardy   !rtfd
23:54 rubenwardy   !rtfm
23:54 MinetestBot  Someone thinks you should read the manual. The development wiki is at http://dev.minetest.net, the regular wiki is at http://wiki.minetest.net.
23:54 rubenwardy   that's a helpful link
23:55 sovetskiy    You gave me this https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide
23:55 rubenwardy   <rubenwardy> https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2924
23:55 sovetskiy    it is mod.
23:56 rubenwardy   the first link (lua_api) was to you
23:56 rubenwardy   the other link (craftguide) was mainly to o11c
23:57 sovetskiy    ok. I see minetest.get_craft_recipe(output) function