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rubenwardy |
!title https://github.com/rubenwardy/editor |
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MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: GitHub - rubenwardy/editor: Minetest Mod: Flexible formspec based text editor |
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agrecascino |
anyone understand the minetest networking ocde |
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agrecascino |
code* |
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Nosrick |
Morning, folks |
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shamoanjac |
ayo Nosrick |
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| 10:12 |
segfault22 |
So its the SHRT (short) type used to store node coordinate number in minetest |
| 10:13 |
segfault22 |
it is limited to minimum of -32767 and maximum of +32767 |
| 10:14 |
segfault22 |
is it possible to make it a LONG (long int) or a LLONG (long long int) |
| 10:16 |
segfault22 |
the minimum for type LONG is -2147483647, the maximum is +2147483647... the minimum for type LLONG is -9223372036854775807 while minimum is +9223372036854775807 |
| 10:17 |
segfault22 |
that would be a possible way to get rid of the ~31000 nodes from 0 limit problem |
| 10:17 |
segfault22 |
or am I wrong? |
| 10:17 |
nore |
segfault22: I tried to do that once |
| 10:17 |
segfault22 |
did it work? |
| 10:17 |
sfan5 |
you can do that but it's a lot of work |
| 10:17 |
sfan5 |
tl;dr don't do it |
| 10:17 |
nore |
there are a lot of problems with it |
| 10:17 |
segfault22 |
like what |
| 10:17 |
nore |
I got segfaults, and others |
| 10:18 |
segfault22 |
oh |
| 10:18 |
segfault22 |
thats no good |
| 10:18 |
nore |
it would not be backwards-compatible with maps either |
| 10:18 |
nore |
(or that would need an ugly hack) |
| 10:18 |
nore |
there also are problems with map generation, I think (although I'm not sure) |
| 10:19 |
nore |
floats are sent as a long / 1000. |
| 10:19 |
nore |
so that limits coordinates to 2^31/1000 |
| 10:19 |
nore |
and this would have to be changed as well |
| 10:19 |
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| 10:19 |
nore |
I don't remember what other problems there were |
| 10:20 |
nore |
also, it changed several thousands lines of code |
| 10:20 |
nore |
reviewing such changes is just impossible |
| 10:20 |
Krock |
huh? larger maps wouldn't fit into the current sqlite system anymore |
| 10:21 |
segfault22 |
so are we stuck with the limit as it is now, forever |
| 10:21 |
Krock |
omg how horrible |
| 10:21 |
Krock |
you couldn't even save the database that holds 31000^3 air nodes |
| 10:22 |
T4im |
^^ |
| 10:22 |
Krock |
oh I'm sorry. 64000^3 |
| 10:22 |
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| 10:23 |
Krock |
!c (64000^3) / (1024^3) + ' GiB' |
| 10:23 |
MinetestBot |
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'float' and 'str' |
| 10:23 |
Krock |
!c ((64000^3) / (1024^3)) + ' GiB' |
| 10:23 |
MinetestBot |
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'float' and 'str' |
| 10:23 |
Krock |
!c ((64000^3) / (1024^3)) |
| 10:23 |
MinetestBot |
62.320350535540406 |
| 10:23 |
Krock |
if each node was 1 byte - but that's not possible |
| 10:24 |
segfault22 |
maybe 64k^3 nodes is enough for now |
| 10:25 |
segfault22 |
it would probably take a really long time to devoid a 64k^3 world of all its non-renewable resources |
| 10:27 |
segfault22 |
I won't ask again about changing the node limit until someone actually has a valid problem associated with the existing limit, which will only happen when superconducting processors and hard drives are measured in petabytes |
| 10:27 |
segfault22 |
er, only be possible, because you can't store 64k^3 nodes without running out of space |
| 10:28 |
T4im |
human limits won't change that much so |
| 10:30 |
segfault22 |
human limits like what? |
| 10:30 |
Krock |
you couldn't use up all space for buildings |
| 10:30 |
T4im |
assuming a fifth of the ground is usable ore and a person would mine 8 hours a day each day of the year, they'd had to get 2556804 years of age before depleting it |
| 10:30 |
Krock |
^ |
| 10:30 |
T4im |
oh and that assumes they start really young :D |
| 10:31 |
T4im |
have 1000 people do it, and it's still not possible :P |
| 10:31 |
segfault22 |
if some revolutionary comes along and decides to change the way players play the game, say turn it into a mass strategy game with NPCs that build structures for your empire and weapons that readily destroy 1k^ nodes at a time, those limits will be realized to never have existed in the first place |
| 10:32 |
T4im |
(i also assumed one dig per second) |
| 10:33 |
segfault22 |
the only limits to how much ore you can get are the time taken to collect a resource and the return If the method of collection is changed to involve automated mining machines (chunkloaders would be needed first) one could easily acquire more resources in an hour than they ever collected manually |
| 10:34 |
segfault22 |
only then would we start approaching the limit with any reasonable problem beyond "I can't run past ~31k nodes from 0? oh well..." |
| 10:34 |
T4im |
technic already has a quarry, that digs 28900 nodes right now, but also just about one per second |
| 10:35 |
segfault22 |
I wasn't talking about any one implementation; have you seen frame quarries that mine entire square sections out of the world in a second? |
| 10:35 |
T4im |
you hardly ever find other peoples quarries unless they invite you over or are very publicly placed |
| 10:35 |
T4im |
frame quarries? i saw attempts of them crashing servers :) |
| 10:37 |
segfault22 |
the attempt was not implemented properly if it crashes the server, or the system can not handle the load. either way, it is still possible |
| 10:38 |
T4im |
alright, lets go with the theory for now, how many nodes at once you say? 1k? so 10^3 nodes, that's about twice the size of a tnt blast |
| 10:38 |
T4im |
tnt currently blasts at 5^3 |
| 10:38 |
T4im |
i think |
| 10:38 |
T4im |
you'd still not alive to see it all mined |
| 10:39 |
T4im |
huge numbers are funny that way :) |
| 10:39 |
T4im |
twice the diameter* |
| 10:39 |
segfault22 |
It's a waste of time to set up the tele-power/tele-item infrastructure if the frame bore is a measly 10^3 nodes large. Say, 64^3, is more reasonable, and consider the fact that there are more than one because players are competing |
| 10:41 |
segfault22 |
also you can expand it to the side by another 64^3 once you have collected enough resources to do this. Combined with some device to auto-build the new sections, that reduces the downtime for expansion to a few seconds, a minute at most. |
| 10:41 |
sfan5 |
Krock: if you want to add a string to a number you'll first have to convert the number to a string using str() |
| 10:41 |
Krock |
!c str(3) + "blah" |
| 10:41 |
MinetestBot |
'3blah' |
| 10:41 |
Krock |
ooh |
| 10:42 |
Krock |
I can't python |
| 10:42 |
T4im |
what height has that 64^2 setup? 5 or so? |
| 10:43 |
segfault22 |
yeah ^2 I was stuck in ^3 sorry |
| 10:43 |
T4im |
i figured, but it still is higher than 1 |
| 10:43 |
T4im |
64^2 * n |
| 10:43 |
segfault22 |
the height is 64 |
| 10:44 |
T4im |
3 at minimum |
| 10:44 |
segfault22 |
64 high 64 long and it cuts a section only 1 block wide each step (could also be expanded, so dont count on it to stay at 1) |
| 10:44 |
T4im |
but the frame machien itself has a y > 1 |
| 10:45 |
T4im |
or wait, you are mining horizontally now |
| 10:45 |
T4im |
and i am vertically in my mind :D |
| 10:45 |
segfault22 |
"now"? |
| 10:45 |
segfault22 |
have you ever seen a frame bore? |
| 10:45 |
T4im |
I've seen a frame based nodebreaker array in minetest |
| 10:46 |
T4im |
digging down though |
| 10:46 |
T4im |
anyway |
| 10:47 |
segfault22 |
its basically a giant glorified tunnel bore, ok? maybe thats easier to turn around than digging straight down, and it can collect twice as much ore before having to be turned around (height to sea level is ~31k, length between ends of the world is ~62k |
| 10:52 |
segfault22 |
don't bother trying to run calculations for this, the point is to illustrate that there will always be faster ways to mine, especially using methods which are currently unfathomable (tele-mining, instant and you don't even have to touch the node, just near enough), thus it is inevitable that the limit will be reached someday. whether most of us will live to see that is incalculable. |
| 10:53 |
T4im |
if a 1000 players dug all at once 8 hours a day they'd still had to work 1111years |
| 10:54 |
segfault22 |
now we're back to digging manually? |
| 10:54 |
T4im |
thing is, if you increase it even further now, you start to get other limits, like building those arrays, which already take hours if not days to set up |
| 10:54 |
T4im |
no your machine |
| 10:54 |
T4im |
it only diggs 4096 nodes per second |
| 10:55 |
T4im |
64000^3 / 2 is still a huge number |
| 10:55 |
segfault22 |
I thought I mentioned automatic construction, the fact that there is no limit to the size of "my machine", and there are other methods like tele-mining |
| 10:55 |
T4im |
that is getting silly though, why still play then? |
| 10:56 |
T4im |
autoconstructing and automining together doesn't make much sense gameplay wise |
| 10:56 |
segfault22 |
I only meant to illustrate the fact that there will always be new methods to collect ore faster, even ones we can't fathom yet, therefore it is inevitable we will reach the limit |
| 10:56 |
IhrFussel |
Question: Could this setting cause server lag? Default is 600 AFAIK and I thought setting it way lower would actually help with performance "server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 120" |
| 10:56 |
T4im |
but those methods won't reach the limits before they reach others :D |
| 10:56 |
segfault22 |
Why? Why?... |
| 10:56 |
T4im |
because then it would make more sense to create an ore generator machine if you just want the resource investment |
| 10:56 |
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| 10:57 |
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| 10:57 |
segfault22 |
Because by the time we do get the ability to autobuild/automine, there will be a reason to need all of those resources |
| 10:58 |
segfault22 |
aggression between players, especially using nukes on each-others constructions, always calls for more resources/power/everything, because you have to replace what is being destroyed |
| 10:58 |
T4im |
yea so what? |
| 10:59 |
segfault22 |
So there are unfathomable reasons which will incur a demand for auto-building auto-mining machines, and other unfathomable devices that reach the node limit |
| 10:59 |
aix |
could someone help me with rnd's basic_machines? |
| 10:59 |
T4im |
as said, if you have autobuilding automining machines, then why not just create a resource generator? |
| 11:00 |
segfault22 |
it will be a very long time until we get there, but it is foolish to say we won't ever. About as foolish as the programmers who assumed their code would never be used past year 2000 |
| 11:00 |
segfault22 |
resource duplication breaks the game, unless you just want to play creative mode |
| 11:00 |
T4im |
i don't say things aren't scaling up, I'm saying you are having a false intuition about those large numbers and the first limits being reached |
| 11:01 |
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| 11:01 |
segfault22 |
Just like the false intuition of all the people who had to fix their broken machines when they woke up from their hangover January first 2000 |
| 11:03 |
T4im |
yes, exactly |
| 11:03 |
T4im |
they just went the other direction :P |
| 11:03 |
segfault22 |
you assume the current state of things is static and unchanging, that there will never be ways to reach the limits within reason. Computer scientists a few decades ago thought that a hard-drive storing a few gigabytes would be nearly impossible to fill |
| 11:03 |
T4im |
no i don't assume that |
| 11:04 |
T4im |
i already assumed endless capacities for this conversation |
| 11:04 |
T4im |
if you didn't notice |
| 11:04 |
segfault22 |
Then you are contradicting yourself because changing conditions will eventually result in the limits being reached |
| 11:05 |
segfault22 |
pick one |
| 11:05 |
T4im |
the premise is, there are still limited human capacities, and those are actually not so quickly changing (sure, maybe we'll live forever one day, but then we'd have enough time to rewrite minetest, don't you think?= |
| 11:05 |
T4im |
you didn't read me up there |
| 11:05 |
T4im |
even if you scale up you might hit **other** limits first, because you scale for them at a different rate |
| 11:06 |
segfault22 |
constructs don't have human limits, refer to tunnel bore in real world vs. picking all that stone by hand |
| 11:06 |
T4im |
some limits i assume fixed here, indeed, your life span for one |
| 11:07 |
T4im |
of course there are limits, you can't build a huge machine because it doesn't make sense to autoconstruct it, or to make it free all at the same time, that would be a boring game indeed |
| 11:07 |
segfault22 |
today, when people build a new computer for whatever use, they almost always get a hard-drive that can store at least one terabyte, because their old computer with a gigabyte-harddrive is full of all their files and they need more space. The same thing happened when peoples' megabyte hard-drves started to get filled up |
| 11:08 |
T4im |
it's absurd, just invent a 64k^3 per second digging machine and you are done with the game in one second, that was fun! |
| 11:08 |
T4im |
dude, you don't need to convince me that limits are pushed, don't you get that? :D |
| 11:08 |
segfault22 |
you're not done with the game, remember you have to use those resources for something, and manage all the systems |
| 11:09 |
segfault22 |
you would not build such a machine without the need; someday a mod will come along providing the need, whether or not you can wrap your head around it today doesn't matter. |
| 11:09 |
* T4im |
sighs |
| 11:10 |
segfault22 |
a few decades ago, gigabyte hard drives provided an unreachable limit, until the uses/needs filled the space eventually reaching the limit. It would have been unfathomable to need a hard drive storing 1k gigabytes, when you can barely fill 4 gigabytes with your emails. but then everything else that's resource-hogging came along, and pushed the usage to the limit |
| 11:11 |
T4im |
you don't need to tell me that, i actually used a 20MB hdd |
| 11:11 |
T4im |
i am im perpetual state of wonder of how disk space is growing |
| 11:11 |
segfault22 |
this is not speculative, it is a fact of how we develop our technology and learn to use it more when the limits are pushed higher, until we run out of space and need higher limits |
| 11:11 |
T4im |
i still tell you there are factual limits, as unimaginable as they are |
| 11:12 |
segfault22 |
the only limit is the state of mind that there is a limit |
| 11:13 |
T4im |
like, even the nsa can't break AES256 by sheer bruteforce, you know why that is a fact? because they'd don't have the energy for it, evne if you assume all the money and all the computers in the universe, they'd had to use more energy than the solar system provides if you turned all matter into energy, so as much as there are pushed limits in imagined scenarios, there are limits by nature that still are hit at some point |
| 11:13 |
T4im |
of course they will still break it by math and stealing keys and stuff like that :P |
| 11:13 |
T4im |
but that's another topic |
| 11:13 |
segfault22 |
They don't brute force AES encryption, remember they paid the developers to leave vulnerabilities in it that allow cryptanalysis to break it in a few hours on a regular laptop |
| 11:14 |
* T4im |
isghs |
| 11:14 |
* T4im |
sighs* |
| 11:14 |
T4im |
yes |
| 11:14 |
T4im |
that's why i added "sheer bruteforce" |
| 11:14 |
T4im |
it was an example about how even imagined limitless resources still hit physical limits |
| 11:15 |
segfault22 |
if the limit is the point at which AES is broken, they have already reached it without using bruteforce... |
| 11:15 |
segfault22 |
and they don't even need limitless resources to do it |
| 11:15 |
T4im |
now you are just trolling me, I'm done |
| 11:15 |
segfault22 |
you are starting to confuse your limits, maybe its time to lay off for a while |
| 11:17 |
segfault22 |
You know how hard drive storage space is expanded? they create finer read/write heads with finer photolithography processes as they become available, and make the particle size on the platters more fine as well |
| 11:17 |
|
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| 11:20 |
segfault22 |
we are starting to reach a physical limit to how small these components can be created, but that doesn't mean we can't fill those hard drives that have reached the physical limits. And when people complain enough about their hard drives not being able to store enough information for their 16k movies and game-world data, the industry will find some other revolutionary new way to store data that has even higher physical limits, most possibly by stori |
| 11:20 |
segfault22 |
ng more information in the space that a single bit occupies on a terabyte hard-drive |
| 11:21 |
segfault22 |
when the storage media has reached the physical limit for "grain-size", the new direction of development will be into data density "per grain", like how each flash storage cell can store 4 bits of information |
| 11:23 |
IhrFussel |
Is there somewhere documented what tasks the "Server" thread has? Cause htop constantly shows that only the Server thread spikes when lags happen |
| 11:24 |
sfan5 |
no thats not documented, just look in the code |
| 11:24 |
APNG |
hi |
| 11:24 |
APNG |
can anyone help me work on NOVA? http://novaapi.net/ |
| 11:24 |
APNG |
I'm currently trying to make it work at all |
| 11:25 |
APNG |
then I'll try to implement minetest on it, so you can load minetest mods in minecraft |
| 11:27 |
segfault22 |
It looks like for NOVA to work, all the methods from one game have to translate into another some way, there has to be a counterpart or some implementation of the methods to exist in both |
| 11:27 |
APNG |
segfault22, yeah I'm working towards that |
| 11:28 |
segfault22 |
Cool, it looks like a really viable endeavor |
| 11:29 |
|
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| 11:30 |
Megaf |
!g nova api |
| 11:30 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Problem getting data from Google. |
| 11:30 |
Megaf |
!g novaapi |
| 11:30 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Problem getting data from Google. |
| 11:30 |
Megaf |
sfan5: ^ |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
!w nova api |
| 11:31 |
sfan5 |
i'm aware |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
I had a cool IRC bot once, it could do everything. Even talk |
| 11:31 |
Megaf |
and it ran on Windows |
| 11:31 |
APNG |
Megaf, you consider that a feature?! |
| 11:32 |
Megaf |
the bot actually worked very well |
| 11:32 |
Megaf |
very well built software, stable and fast |
| 11:32 |
APNG |
Megaf, you consider windows support a feature?! |
| 11:32 |
Megaf |
well, I was using Windows 2003 Server Enterprise Edition at that time. |
| 11:32 |
Megaf |
that was late 2002 or early 2003 |
| 11:32 |
Megaf |
before I migrated to Linux as main kernel |
| 11:33 |
APNG |
oh, back when windows was acceptable |
| 11:33 |
segfault22 |
A lot of the method implementation still has to be done in minetest core/engine code, like weather, explosions, food (consume food to regenerate hp over time, not just punch to heal and delete one item from stack), armor, projectiles, mobs, and other stuff that is currently only implemented by... another mod. |
| 11:33 |
Megaf |
APNG: and that windows was a pretty good one |
| 11:34 |
Megaf |
basically it was windows with all bad windows stuff removed |
| 11:34 |
segfault22 |
We could make a "nova" mod which proviides an interface to existing features of the engine, while also implementing features that aren't implemented in the engine and providing interface for those |
| 11:34 |
Megaf |
and it asked me for admin password and confirmation to do everything |
| 11:34 |
Megaf |
just like Linux! |
| 11:34 |
segfault22 |
you modded windows? 1337 h4xx0r |
| 11:35 |
Megaf |
lol |
| 11:35 |
APNG |
segfault22, just implement a nova mod and put dependencies on the weather/explode/food/etc plugins |
| 11:35 |
Megaf |
I acutally had a livecd of windows... |
| 11:36 |
Megaf |
actually* |
| 11:36 |
segfault22 |
I would rather not have it depend on anything except minetest itself, ie, all that stuff implemented in a universally-usable fashion that other mods will have to use or fall behind into the "old mods" subforum forever |
| 11:37 |
APNG |
segfault22, you do realize we're talking about making a nova mod, not a minetest mod, right? |
| 11:37 |
Megaf |
if you want to make a nice, clean, light and compatible mod, it has to run on minetest_minimal |
| 11:37 |
APNG |
e.g. run minetest mods on NOVA, not NOVA mods on minetest |
| 11:38 |
* Megaf |
have no idea what this nova api thing is for |
| 11:38 |
Megaf |
and if it is not related to minetest I'm even more lost |
| 11:38 |
segfault22 |
A mod for the nova API has to be created in order for nova mods to work in minetest,... |
| 11:38 |
segfault22 |
I thought that was at least obvious so I only bothered to say it once a few minutes ago... |
| 11:38 |
APNG |
segfault22, a mod for the nova API has to be created for minetest mods to work in nova |
| 11:39 |
APNG |
it's minetest_mod <-> nova <-> minecraft, not minetest <-> nova <-> nova_mod |
| 11:39 |
segfault22 |
nova mods working in any game and mods in any game working in nova are interchangeable because nova mods are interpreted by nova |
| 11:39 |
APNG |
no, minecraftforge mods don't work in nova |
| 11:39 |
segfault22 |
I didn't say they did |
| 11:39 |
APNG |
it's not reimplementing minecraft, it's only wrapping minecraft |
| 11:40 |
segfault22 |
I know |
| 11:40 |
APNG |
so you won't be able to load nova mods into minetest |
| 11:40 |
segfault22 |
then why bother? |
| 11:40 |
APNG |
(meh who had the bright idea to name the API, the game and the engine the same thing >.>) |
| 11:41 |
APNG |
segfault22, minetest mods are a thing |
| 11:41 |
APNG |
so let's make them work everywhere |
| 11:41 |
segfault22 |
That's the idea |
| 11:41 |
APNG |
I'm not talking about making non-minetest mods work everywhere tho |
| 11:42 |
segfault22 |
in order for mods implemented in nova to work in any game, it must have a nova interpreter, call it a mod or an engine code change or whatever you want to, its the same thing |
| 11:42 |
APNG |
no |
| 11:42 |
APNG |
I don't wanna change minetest |
| 11:42 |
segfault22 |
call it or implement it whatever way you want to (sigh) |
| 11:42 |
APNG |
>.> |
| 11:43 |
segfault22 |
you don't have to change the engine to implement a nova interpreter, a mod can do that |
| 11:43 |
segfault22 |
this nova interpeter mod should only depend on minetest, and it allows mods written in the nova api to work in minetest |
| 11:43 |
APNG |
I don't wanna be able to run minetest mods on top of nova on top of minetest on top of nova on top of minetest |
| 11:44 |
segfault22 |
you aren't understanding what I am saying |
| 11:44 |
APNG |
you're the one who's not understanding me |
| 11:44 |
APNG |
you're the one who wants to make NOVA talk to minetest |
| 11:45 |
APNG |
I only want minetest *mods* to talk to NOVA |
| 11:45 |
segfault22 |
what good does that do? |
| 11:45 |
APNG |
it lets you use minetest mods in minecraft |
| 11:45 |
segfault22 |
You don't understand how they say nova works |
| 11:46 |
APNG |
I'm talking to the nova devs right now >.> |
| 11:46 |
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| 11:46 |
segfault22 |
nova implements its own api system that is universal across all games. the game must have some kind of interpreter, whether it be a mod or engine change, to allow mods written in the nova API to translate to the minetest API |
| 11:47 |
APNG |
yes |
| 11:47 |
APNG |
you can do that with NOVA |
| 11:47 |
APNG |
doesn't mean you have to |
| 11:47 |
segfault22 |
if the "devs" say otherwise, they contradict the site and it needs to be updated to reflect their changes |
| 11:47 |
aix |
the minimesecons ghoststone just disappears on place... |
| 11:47 |
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FirePowi joined #minetest |
| 11:47 |
segfault22 |
"NOVA provides modders with the ability to write mods for any game or mod loader that has a NOVA-compatible wrapper for it" |
| 11:47 |
APNG |
yes |
| 11:48 |
APNG |
doesn't mean there has to be a wrapper for minetest |
| 11:48 |
APNG |
the minetest engine is complete garbage |
| 11:48 |
APNG |
the API is nice tho |
| 11:48 |
APNG |
so if you swap out the engine you should get a nice game |
| 11:48 |
APNG |
(say, replace it with minecraft) |
| 11:49 |
segfault22 |
Then why bother making minetest able to run nova mods in the first place, since you have a better idea than using minetest? |
| 11:49 |
APNG |
I'm not trying to make minetest run NOVA mods >.> |
| 11:49 |
APNG |
I'm trying to make NOVA run minetest mods >.> |
| 11:49 |
APNG |
are you even listening >.> |
| 11:50 |
segfault22 |
there isn't a difference, when you implement the "interpreter" or "wrapper" or "game-specific API converter" or whatever you call it, then NOVA mods <> Minetest mods |
| 11:50 |
segfault22 |
that is how its claimed to work, in the documentation |
| 11:50 |
APNG |
there is a difference |
| 11:50 |
APNG |
a wrapper is not a mod |
| 11:51 |
segfault22 |
I didn't originally say there has to be a wrapper, that was your idea |
| 11:51 |
APNG |
a wrapper depends on a specific engine, a mod depends on NOVA |
| 11:51 |
APNG |
I never said there has to be a wrapper >.> |
| 11:51 |
APNG |
I actually said there DOESN'T HAVE to be a wrapper >.> |
| 11:52 |
APNG |
is my brain damage that bad that ppl can't understand what I'm saying? ;_; |
| 11:52 |
segfault22 |
the basic fact is that the NOVA whatever you want to call it is a system which allows you to code mods to work on any game which implements a conversion from said code to the game's native code |
| 11:52 |
APNG |
yes, that's the basic fact |
| 11:52 |
segfault22 |
the conversion doesn't have to be called anything, you can call it a "foo" for all I care, it does the same thing |
| 11:52 |
APNG |
another fact is that the minetest API is just a set of Lua functions |
| 11:53 |
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| 11:53 |
APNG |
and you can call NOVA from Lua |
| 11:53 |
Megaf_ |
Finally back using Quasse Core and Quassel Client. |
| 11:53 |
APNG |
so you can create Lua functions that emulate the minetest API, and make those call the NOVA functions |
| 11:53 |
Megaf_ |
Quassel* |
| 11:53 |
APNG |
and that'll make minetest mods run on top of NOVA |
| 11:53 |
APNG |
but it won't let NOVA mods run on top of minetest |
| 11:53 |
APNG |
but you're too much of a dumbfuck to understand that |
| 11:54 |
APNG |
so I have repeated myself like 10 times already >.> |
| 11:54 |
segfault22 |
If you fall to the level of insulting others, it proves you don't know what you are talking about because it is only a last resort, "dumbfuck" |
| 11:54 |
APNG |
segfault22, insults are used when you're angry |
| 11:54 |
aix |
could someone give me a hand with a little mod? |
| 11:54 |
APNG |
any good codebase has at least one insult hidden in a comment deep somewhere |
| 11:55 |
APNG |
if your codebase has no insults, you're doing something very wrong |
| 11:55 |
APNG |
insults make the world actually work |
| 11:55 |
segfault22 |
You know what? I don't care if you can't comprehend what I am talking about, that is your own shortcoming of the mind. |
| 11:55 |
APNG |
segfault22, no, I can fully understand what you're talking about |
| 11:55 |
APNG |
you might want to draw it out for YOU to understand it |
| 11:56 |
APNG |
because you're the one who doesn't seem to get it |
| 11:56 |
segfault22 |
You're a difficult one to do anything with, I am convinced you're just trying to troll me, so it's time to get rid of you, /ignore style |
| 11:57 |
APNG |
segfault22, took you way too long, I wish you had put me on ignore earlier, at least I wouldn't have had to deal with your lack of a brain |
| 11:57 |
APNG |
insults make life easier :> |
| 11:57 |
segfault22 |
I don't lack a brain, if that were true I could not use this interface; that proves you are incompetent |
| 11:58 |
APNG |
segfault22, you'd be surprised by what ppl can do without a brain... |
| 11:59 |
segfault22 |
Okay, there are some insects that don't have brains, but humans can't even implement heartbeat pulses without a certain part of the brain |
| 12:00 |
segfault22 |
not having a brain and not using certain parts of it are different, you are confusing both and implementing quite extensively the latter in your own state |
| 12:01 |
segfault22 |
now, the fact that you can write mods in NOVA "code" is enough for anyone to know that said mods can be made to run on any game, because that's how they say it works. You don't have to implement a system to let the mods work on the game, but then again you don't need a computer to live |
| 12:02 |
segfault22 |
the game has to implement a system to work with NOVA, that is obvious. |
| 12:02 |
segfault22 |
mods are part of the game, don't try that one because it won't work. |
| 12:03 |
segfault22 |
the only way to add content to minetest is through mods, or coding the content directly into the engine as before 0.4 |
| 12:05 |
APNG |
segfault22, so ever heard of wine? |
| 12:05 |
segfault22 |
wine's not an emulator? |
| 12:05 |
APNG |
segfault22, do you call wine a "windows mod"? |
| 12:06 |
segfault22 |
No, because in translation to these minetest concepts the programs are mods. |
| 12:06 |
APNG |
or do you call it "winapi translating to linux"? |
| 12:07 |
segfault22 |
wine is like NOVA and the OS is like Minetest, Minecraft, or whatever other voxel game |
| 12:07 |
APNG |
segfault22, so why would you call "minetest api translating to nova" a "minetest mod"? |
| 12:07 |
APNG |
segfault22, so think about this, linux wine on freebsd |
| 12:08 |
APNG |
freebsd has a wine-like thing that lets you run linux binaries directly |
| 12:08 |
APNG |
so by putting linux wine on freebsd, you have windows programs <-> wine <-> linux subsystem <-> freebsd |
| 12:08 |
APNG |
segfault22, can you understand that? |
| 12:08 |
segfault22 |
Why would I be here if I haven't gotten that covered already? |
| 12:09 |
APNG |
basically, I wanna put wine on wine |
| 12:09 |
APNG |
minetest mod <-> my junk minetest API to NOVA translation <-> NOVA <-> minecraft |
| 12:09 |
Krock |
so 4 times more speed loss |
| 12:09 |
Krock |
profit! |
| 12:09 |
APNG |
do you get it now, or are you, as I said before, too much of a dumbfuck? |
| 12:10 |
APNG |
Krock, eh just add some JITs in-between |
| 12:10 |
segfault22 |
So you want to make a system that takes regular minetest mods, converts them to the NOVA implementation so they can run on minecraft? |
| 12:10 |
APNG |
segfault22, yes |
| 12:10 |
segfault22 |
Why not just rewrite the mods to be implemented through nova? that would be so much easier |
| 12:10 |
APNG |
segfault22, that has to be done once for each mod, not once for all the mods |
| 12:11 |
agaran |
Hello |
| 12:11 |
segfault22 |
welcome agaran |
| 12:11 |
APNG |
also, the minetest devs don't like java much |
| 12:14 |
segfault22 |
If we implemented a NOVA interpreter for minetest, your other system would be useful for translating mods to the NOVA implementation, where it doesn't screw up and omit something or break something (inevitable this way), but once each mod has been converted at least once, they would be able to run on any voxel game implementing NOVA, and with such an interpreter we would also be able to run other mods in minetest, which is the only thing that will |
| 12:14 |
segfault22 |
benefit Minetest in terms of players playing the game - porting minetest mods to other games helps us some for publicity, but what game does the ported mod get played in? not minetest |
| 12:15 |
APNG |
meh w/e |
| 12:15 |
Hirato |
speaking of dumbfucks, you guys have to see this kickstarter - especially since it uses some minetest footage recorded at 2 FPS https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/qquip/oton-x-the-first-artificial-intelligent-game-conso |
| 12:15 |
segfault22 |
if you want to make minetest mods run in other games, go ahead, but know that it won't cause more players to play minetest for any reason other than learning it exists |
| 12:15 |
APNG |
I just wanna do the easy part |
| 12:15 |
APNG |
it's easier to make minetest mods talk to NOVA than to make NOVA mods talk to minetest |
| 12:15 |
APNG |
mostly because minetest is C++ and Lua, while NOVA is Java |
| 12:15 |
segfault22 |
What's easy for you isn't best for the game |
| 12:16 |
APNG |
I can just use a JVM-based Lua interpreter to put Lua in Java |
| 12:16 |
APNG |
there are no Lua-based JVMs |
| 12:16 |
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| 12:16 |
Hirato |
go hardcore buddy boy, use the JNI |
| 12:16 |
APNG |
Hirato, never |
| 12:16 |
APNG |
FFI sure, JNI never |
| 12:17 |
APNG |
I much prefer sun.misc.Unsafe over that JNI mess |
| 12:20 |
segfault22 |
We don't need NOVA to interpret Lua, just implement a system in Java which converts stuff implemented in NOVA to relevant Minetest-compatible Lua code, write it to a file, and bam you have just used NOVA to convert a mod from its system to something Minetest can interpret, without having to make Java interpret Lua "directly" |
| 12:21 |
APNG |
in other words, make a JVM |
| 12:22 |
APNG |
segfault22, you're still confusing the concept of minetest mods in NOVA with the concept of NOVA mods in minetest |
| 12:22 |
APNG |
you want me not to call you a dumbfuck? how can I not call you a dumbfuck? you KNOW the concept, you know the difference, yet you're still mixing them up |
| 12:23 |
segfault22 |
no. The Java implementation can use strings to hold the revelant bits of Lua code, convert NOVA-implemented object names/IDs/properties to strings and finally stitch the object data with the Lua code-bits, making one big string with a mod-file that has all the Lua code to run in minetest and basically implement the mod fro mNOVA. I know this isn't what you are trying to do, but this is what I believe should be done, because it would be best for eve |
| 12:23 |
segfault22 |
ryone - so no, I am not mixing it up, you just failed to catch that I am not talking about what you are trying to do. |
| 12:24 |
APNG |
segfault22, it wouldn't run because java is bytecode |
| 12:24 |
APNG |
and then there's that whole reflection thing |
| 12:24 |
APNG |
in other words you'd need a JVM for that |
| 12:24 |
APNG |
a pure-Lua JVM |
| 12:24 |
APNG |
good luck |
| 12:28 |
segfault22 |
I didn't say Lua would have to run Java, Java can run on the system like any other Java code, and the objects NOVA loads can then be converted, with skillful use of strings, to Lua code which is written to a file, which becomes the mod that you run in Minetest to "run NOVA mods in minetest". If you think this is stupid, I don't care, because it would be viable, and it would help more than just to let Minecrafters play mods that we have written for |
| 12:28 |
segfault22 |
Minetest. |
| 12:29 |
APNG |
segfault22, I don't care about minecraft tho, and minetest's engine is shit |
| 12:30 |
APNG |
just because NOVA runs on minecraft doesn't mean I wanna run things on minecraft |
| 12:30 |
Calinou |
oh, go and make your own awesome voxel game |
| 12:31 |
Calinou |
I suggest you make it as a bunch of microservices written in Go |
| 12:31 |
Calinou |
connected to Node.js APIs |
| 12:31 |
Calinou |
and Java wrappers |
| 12:31 |
Hirato |
Calinou: that then interacts with minetest using JNI? :3 |
| 12:32 |
segfault22 |
I don't care what you think about minetest's engine, it will be a great advantage to be able to play NOVA mods in minetest, and that would be good for our community. Since you obviously don't care about Minetest, regardless of if you want our mods to run on whatever other game you have in mind, you have no place here. |
| 12:33 |
APNG |
Hirato, FUCK JNI |
| 12:33 |
segfault22 |
I don't care if you go write a system to run our mods on whatever other game, it is inevitable that they will be run on Minecraft as well as other games, which does not help us much or any except the rare case the player reads "this mod was originally written for minetest" or similar, goes and looks it up, actually doenloads the game and does all the rest |
| 12:33 |
APNG |
segfault22, good, so be an uncooperative bastard >.> |
| 12:34 |
APNG |
the idea is that you'd get minetest mods from the minetest website and stuff, then shove them in NOVA through a NOVA mod |
| 12:34 |
segfault22 |
You are the one being a detriment to this community; you want our work to be used outside of Minetest so that people can enjoy our content without having to play Minetest. |
| 12:34 |
APNG |
so you'd have to use all the minetest channels to be able to use minetest mods |
| 12:34 |
APNG |
segfault22, I sell mods |
| 12:34 |
APNG |
not others mods, but my own |
| 12:36 |
APNG |
segfault22, in a perfect world minetest, minecraft and whatever else would be able to talk to eachother and play together and stuff |
| 12:36 |
APNG |
you only care about minetest being better than everything else |
| 12:36 |
segfault22 |
People would still end up running the mods on some other game, having downloaded it for the purpose of running the mods on some other game; and, once the mod has been converted once, the implementation in NOVA can be imaged or "whatever" you call it, then the code for the NOVA implementation of the mod can be distributed wherever and allow people to use the mod without ever having to know about Minetest, if that is the intention of the one who uses |
| 12:36 |
segfault22 |
your system to convert our mods. |
| 12:37 |
segfault22 |
I don't only care about Minetest being better, but it helps that it is inevitable that it will be... |
| 12:37 |
APNG |
segfault22, the system doesn't convert mods |
| 12:37 |
APNG |
I can't convert JVM mods to Lua, and I can't convert Lua mods to JVM |
| 12:38 |
APNG |
I can only implement a wine-like layer |
| 12:38 |
APNG |
I decided to implement that wine-like layer for Lua to JVM |
| 12:38 |
segfault22 |
then you really are lazy |
| 12:38 |
APNG |
Microsoft only recently decided to add a Linux layer to Windows |
| 12:39 |
APNG |
nobody ever bothered to make a Linux layer for Windows before |
| 12:39 |
APNG |
(also MS's implementation is still really shit, but better than when it was first announced) |
| 12:39 |
segfault22 |
That's retarded, now people will learn more about free software alternatives to that insecure Windows NSA-Backdoor payware hackjob |
| 12:39 |
APNG |
segfault22, there's nothing wrong with implementing wine without implementing microsoft's linux subsystem |
| 12:40 |
segfault22 |
M$ has stabbed themselves in the face |
| 12:40 |
APNG |
segfault22, and you're so much of a dumbfuck that you actually care about security |
| 12:40 |
APNG |
while you're probably using a single password through a password manager to unlock all your accounts |
| 12:40 |
segfault22 |
It's not dumb to care about security |
| 12:40 |
APNG |
instead of different passwords for each service |
| 12:40 |
segfault22 |
No, I don't use a password manager, I do use several passwords |
| 12:41 |
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| 12:41 |
segfault22 |
I always knew password managers were retarded compared to the most effective - my brain |
| 12:41 |
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| 12:41 |
segfault22 |
I have discovered an easy way to make passwords that are both memorable and high-entropy |
| 12:42 |
APNG |
segfault22, while you're at it, find a way to protect yourself from particle state retrieval and exacerbation mechanism / PSREM (a thing I'm working on that lets you retrieve the state of adjacent particles through the state of particles) |
| 12:43 |
segfault22 |
I use a piece of paper at first to keep track of them because they are kinda long, but once I have associated the words I can burn the piece of paper because it's memorized already. I have never lost a password I have memorized, though it has sometimes taken me a few minutes to remember some of the old ones |
| 12:43 |
APNG |
(you know, the thing that breaks literally all crypto) |
| 12:43 |
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| 12:44 |
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| 12:44 |
segfault22 |
cool story bro, but I doubt you actually have the equipment to build a working implementation; the technology for that is so far away, your children (if you ever have any) may not see it developed in their lifetime |
| 12:44 |
APNG |
true |
| 12:44 |
APNG |
but at least I'm working on it |
| 12:44 |
segfault22 |
Good luck |
| 12:45 |
APNG |
(it'd be so nice to be able to actually watch history) |
| 12:45 |
segfault22 |
It would actually be something beneficial, because it can be used for one of those precognition things where the government can detect if someone is building a doomsday superweapon, wait until they are almost finished, and make dust out of them |
| 12:46 |
segfault22 |
but like all technology, it can be used for bad |
| 12:47 |
Hirato |
precrime |
| 12:47 |
segfault22 |
Most of our modern technology is based on the work done by scientists who dies before they ever got to see a working implementation |
| 12:47 |
segfault22 |
yes, precrime |
| 12:47 |
Hirato |
lots of crimethink going on here |
| 12:47 |
segfault22 |
well, kinda, because building a doomsday superweapon is kinda already a crime before it's finished |
| 12:49 |
segfault22 |
not that I would actually go try to build a doomsday superweapon, right? The fact that nobody has done it yet even though there are several viable methods known in some far-out fringes of the internet and old libraries, makes me wonder if the government or some other force hasn't already found a way to monitor and detect if someone is trying to make a doomsday superweapon |
| 12:49 |
rubenwardy |
my opinion on map size: overworld space is way more valuable than underworld or sky lands. You couldn't build a city to scale in Minetest (say, autogenerated from maps etc) |
| 12:50 |
rubenwardy |
So the 64000^3 build space argument isn't particularly valid IMO, in practice the build space is more like 64000^2*10 |
| 12:50 |
segfault22 |
you're right, so its not just about how much ore you can rape from the ground before it becomes a chunk full of emptiness |
| 12:51 |
segfault22 |
there's much more 3d-space in the underground areas then the single layer of the surface which is approximately 2d |
| 12:51 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: i've added few suggestions to your chatplus platform on forum |
| 12:52 |
segfault22 |
most people like to build at the surface because it looks better and its easily accessible - humans live at the boundary between the sky and the ground, so building underground or in the sky kinda makes it hard to get around as well as you could at the ground |
| 12:52 |
segfault22 |
you can't walk in the air, or through stone, without a ground to stand on and air to support your life |
| 12:53 |
segfault22 |
who still thinks we would need to make a "Lua JVM" to convert NOVA mods to something the Minetest API can use? |
| 12:53 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: 64000 of height is good for multiple realms |
| 12:54 |
rubenwardy |
which we don't yet have |
| 12:54 |
Fixer |
possible with lua I guess |
| 12:54 |
Fixer |
but it is slow |
| 12:55 |
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| 12:55 |
segfault22 |
I don't like the idea of fitting multiple worlds in the same one stacked on each-other,. even though its kinda viable since nobody is gonna use that much sky space, it would be much better to move separate realms to separate map-databases in the same world folder, so that sea level can be Y=0 in all realms, instead of some confusing number |
| 12:56 |
Fixer |
could be |
| 12:56 |
segfault22 |
we don't have to generate all of that sky space, but if we want to make a super-tall structure for whatever reason, the room is there |
| 12:56 |
segfault22 |
all 31km of it |
| 12:57 |
agaran |
segfault22: you know once i had fun with tall stuff.. even if I felt there was enough time to do /home before reaching ground.. |
| 12:57 |
Fixer |
or 64 km |
| 12:57 |
red-001 |
It would be best if separate worlds ran in separate threads |
| 12:57 |
Fixer |
if you place ocean somewhere at -32000 |
| 12:57 |
red-001 |
that way mods wouldn't conflict |
| 12:59 |
red-001 |
although that would make supporting legacy clients hard |
| 12:59 |
red-001 |
harder* |
| 13:00 |
segfault22 |
I'm not sure if you're thinking about separate worlds with different mod sets, or different map-databases within the same world... |
| 13:01 |
red-001 |
what would be the point of different map-databases? |
| 13:01 |
red-001 |
make calculating light easier? |
| 13:01 |
segfault22 |
So you can have separate realms in the same world folder but occupying different maps |
| 13:02 |
red-001 |
can't you already do that using one map database? |
| 13:02 |
segfault22 |
like how minecraft does dimensions, except we would do it much better of course, we're already better than minecraft was when it was as far as minetest is in development |
| 13:03 |
segfault22 |
sure, we can make stacked realms, but what if you want to build a super-tall structure? eventually, you will either see the bottom of another realm possibly causing lighting issues if that isn't fixed, or run into some kind of barrier to prevent you from getting close enough to the next layer to be able to see it |
| 13:04 |
red-001 |
fair enough point |
| 13:04 |
segfault22 |
of course most players would be limited to just making huge 1x1 towers before they get banned, but determined ones would make more intricate structures that can actually serve a purpose other than getting up really far one time |
| 13:04 |
red-001 |
still it would take a long time to build a structure that large |
| 13:04 |
segfault22 |
yes |
| 13:05 |
red-001 |
wouldn't this break all old mods? |
| 13:05 |
segfault22 |
Not necessarily |
| 13:07 |
segfault22 |
it would not change the way stuff is registered and put into the world, there would just be more than one realm within the world where stuff from mods can exist. If the mod is a worldgen mod for just "the world", we can maybe alias its reference to just apply to the main realm, and newer versions could make it work in other realms if that is so desired. |
| 13:08 |
segfault22 |
by default ores would be placed wherever default:stone is generated, so maybe we should standardize a system for different types of stone and corresponding ores before we try making multiple realms occupy different map-databases within the same world |
| 13:09 |
red-001 |
still it sounds like this would make the api a lot more complicated |
| 13:09 |
segfault22 |
or just generate a different block in place of default:stone in all other dimensions where the ores from the main world are not desired |
| 13:09 |
shivajiva |
I'd love to see diff realms within a world, would make game hubs much easier to code if we had it :) |
| 13:10 |
APNG |
red-001, this seems more like an implementation detail than an API thing |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:12 |
segfault22 |
First you have to figure out how its going to work or how it should work, then change the code such that it works as is desired. Otherwise, you get lost and the result may only be slightly related to the whole reason you started. |
| 13:12 |
Hirato |
I'd love to see some verticality in the biomes too, like how terraria has the caverns, deep caverns and then hell |
| 13:14 |
segfault22 |
yes, that would be nice. It would be a great use of some of that world height to implement mountains and plateaus much higher than a few blocks from sea level, and more features deep underground possibly including exotic resources needed to make your power systems (hey, there's an unfilled niche) |
| 13:14 |
APNG |
Hirato, 3D biomes are a pain, you'd have to store them compressed |
| 13:14 |
APNG |
at least they're relatively read-only |
| 13:14 |
APNG |
also good luck designing the whole game to work around compressed biomes |
| 13:14 |
Hirato |
lol? |
| 13:15 |
segfault22 |
I've seen this one mod which implements mountain ranges, using 3d noise. We could use something like that to implement "hell" |
| 13:15 |
APNG |
at least as far as I'm aware minetest currently stores the world as an uncompressed node array |
| 13:15 |
APNG |
(in RAM I mean) |
| 13:15 |
APNG |
I don't wanna know what the code would look like for a compressed node array |
| 13:16 |
Hirato |
would probably just be a deflate stream in the database |
| 13:16 |
Hirato |
I'd actually be surprised if that wasn't done already |
| 13:16 |
APNG |
yes, you can always just decompress when loading from the database |
| 13:16 |
APNG |
and keep huge node arrays in RAM |
| 13:16 |
APNG |
or you can compress it everywhere |
| 13:16 |
segfault22 |
There's already several mods which add different types of stone, implemented with 3d noise, which can work a lot like that underground biomes mod from minecraft |
| 13:17 |
segfault22 |
"for" |
| 13:17 |
Hirato |
the lua api has a bunch of different noise generators too |
| 13:18 |
rubenwardy |
or, you could make biomes deterministic and so recalculatable |
| 13:18 |
Hirato |
is that not what the noise generators are for? |
| 13:18 |
segfault22 |
there's no reason we can't use them to make mountains, caverns, stuff like the minecraft nether complete with biome-specific flora and resources |
| 13:18 |
rubenwardy |
APNG, map blocks are compressed |
| 13:18 |
rubenwardy |
using libz I believe |
| 13:18 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, in RAM? |
| 13:19 |
Hirato |
since it needs to reinstantiate the noise thing to generate the neighbouring 'blocks' |
| 13:19 |
rubenwardy |
Oh, not sure about that, but they are in the DB |
| 13:19 |
rubenwardy |
in anycase there won't be enough loaded in RAM to need compression |
| 13:19 |
Hirato |
with block being one of those 16x16x16 things (or whatever their actual size is) |
| 13:19 |
segfault22 |
a block is like 3^3 chunks, each chunk 16^16, if I remember correctly |
| 13:19 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, biomes are currently 2D right? |
| 13:19 |
rubenwardy |
no, you can get basic underground biomes |
| 13:20 |
rubenwardy |
I think there's only one - "underground" - by default |
| 13:20 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, are they proper biomes tho? |
| 13:20 |
rubenwardy |
you get mountain biomes as well |
| 13:20 |
APNG |
I mean are they calculated like any other biome or are they set based on height? |
| 13:21 |
APNG |
(can each node have its own biome?) |
| 13:21 |
Hirato |
I think it's more a case of the generator saying "oh, it's my turn *place things in a pattern based on noise*" |
| 13:22 |
APNG |
imagine doubling the world size in RAM |
| 13:22 |
segfault22 |
You can't see biomes in the ingame debug info, right? |
| 13:22 |
Hirato |
you can base them purely on height if you wanted too |
| 13:22 |
APNG |
that's what would happen by going from 2D biomes to 3D biomes |
| 13:22 |
Hirato |
eg, the bedrock mod that makes everything at -250 and below bedrock |
| 13:22 |
Hirato |
or whatever the actual number was |
| 13:23 |
APNG |
hmm |
| 13:23 |
APNG |
does minetest have biomes beyond worldgen? |
| 13:23 |
segfault22 |
You can't see biomes in the ingame debug info, right? |
| 13:23 |
Hirato |
beats me |
| 13:23 |
rubenwardy |
you should talk to paramat or hmmmm |
| 13:23 |
APNG |
like, are biomes only part of worldgen, or are they actually a thing and some places have snow and other places have no rain and stuff? |
| 13:23 |
rubenwardy |
~tell paramat http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2016-08-28#i_4693238 |
| 13:23 |
ShadowBot |
rubenwardy: O.K. |
| 13:24 |
behalebabo |
segfault22: right, you cannot |
| 13:25 |
segfault22 |
as far as I know, biome definitions are only used to tell the map generator where to place stuff; in that case, they are not limited to two dimensions like minecraft; that would follow with the 3d-world concept that minetest is pretty much based on |
| 13:26 |
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| 13:26 |
APNG |
ok |
| 13:26 |
segfault22 |
aww man, I got up hours ago intending to work on my mods and all I did was hang out at chat |
| 13:26 |
APNG |
so minetest doesn't have biomes |
| 13:26 |
APNG |
problem solved |
| 13:26 |
APNG |
adding biomes would double the world size in RAM |
| 13:26 |
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| 13:27 |
segfault22 |
Minecraft sure does hog some RAM |
| 13:27 |
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| 13:28 |
segfault22 |
its like minecraft is a big ol' sow and the RAM is a trough full of goodies |
| 13:28 |
segfault22 |
thats kinda why I like minetest more |
| 13:28 |
red-001 |
adding biomes would double the world size in RAM ????? |
| 13:29 |
red-001 |
how does minetest not have biomes? |
| 13:29 |
APNG |
<segfault22> as far as I know, biome definitions are only used to tell the map generator where to place stuff; in that case, they are not limited to two dimensions like minecraft; that would follow with the 3d-world concept that minetest is pretty much based on |
| 13:29 |
APNG |
red-001, worldgen has pseudo-biomes |
| 13:29 |
APNG |
to worldgen, biomes exist |
| 13:29 |
rubenwardy |
No |
| 13:30 |
red-001 |
pseudo-biomes? |
| 13:30 |
APNG |
and worldgen uses that concept of biomes to populate the world |
| 13:30 |
APNG |
but beyond worldgen, all areas of the world are the same biome |
| 13:30 |
red-001 |
is that not the point of biomes? |
| 13:30 |
rubenwardy |
biome finding is deterministic, you wouldn't need to store it in the RAM |
| 13:30 |
red-001 |
or do you have some other use for them? |
| 13:30 |
rubenwardy |
also, it wouldn't double the world size even if it was stored |
| 13:30 |
APNG |
the point of biomes is that snow biomes have snow, deserts have no rain, etc |
| 13:30 |
segfault22 |
as far as I know, it would only add a single field to each node, which can be compressed down to a single number that won't even need a whole byte to express 256 different biomes |
| 13:31 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, say that to thaumcraft (the minecraft mod) and its dynamic biomes |
| 13:31 |
rubenwardy |
it would be a 32 byte variable per block |
| 13:31 |
APNG |
and each node is a 32 byte variable >.> |
| 13:31 |
rubenwardy |
compared to 512 bytes currently |
| 13:31 |
APNG |
uh |
| 13:31 |
APNG |
oh right |
| 13:32 |
APNG |
all the pointers and stuff for metadata and stuff |
| 13:32 |
rubenwardy |
no, APNG, a block is 16x16x16 nodes |
| 13:32 |
APNG |
oh |
| 13:32 |
rubenwardy |
so 1 bit per node / minecraft block |
| 13:32 |
segfault22 |
if you gave each biome a string text-name, without converting it to a number, then it would consume more space. we can be more efficient with numbers stored in, say, a single byte or just a few |
| 13:32 |
APNG |
per-block biomes |
| 13:32 |
APNG |
not per-node |
| 13:32 |
Fixer |
minetest has no weather |
| 13:32 |
segfault22 |
damn |
| 13:32 |
Fixer |
i really dislike this part |
| 13:32 |
segfault22 |
no weather? pfffft |
| 13:32 |
Fixer |
ambience part |
| 13:32 |
Fixer |
just clouds |
| 13:32 |
Fixer |
there is weather mod though |
| 13:33 |
red-001 |
does any weather mod change the sky colour? |
| 13:33 |
rubenwardy |
oh wait, it wouldn't be bit per node it would be a byte |
| 13:33 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, assuming 256 biome types |
| 13:34 |
rubenwardy |
even so, currently I believe it is 2B for cid, 1B for param1, 1B for param2 |
| 13:34 |
red-001 |
do you really need more? |
| 13:34 |
APNG |
you'd probably want at least 65536 |
| 13:34 |
APNG |
red-001, at least 1024, yes |
| 13:34 |
red-001 |
what for? |
| 13:34 |
APNG |
but if you're gonna go for 1024, might aswell go for 65536 |
| 13:34 |
segfault22 |
Yeah but its a hacknslash compared to features of the engine; imagine trying to make a mod that lets you register entities because the engine doesn't have a part for that in the Lua API, and having to make mobs as blocks... yuck! |
| 13:34 |
rubenwardy |
256 is enough for anybody! |
| 13:34 |
segfault22 |
]the weather mod |
| 13:34 |
rubenwardy |
So it would be: |
| 13:35 |
rubenwardy |
!g (4+1)/4 |
| 13:35 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Problem getting data from Google. |
| 13:35 |
rubenwardy |
!c (4+1)/4 |
| 13:35 |
MinetestBot |
1.25 |
| 13:35 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, I know a MC mod that fills up the 256 biome IDs MC supports |
| 13:35 |
rubenwardy |
so 25% more |
| 13:35 |
segfault22 |
256 is more than enough, and if we run out, we can make it configrable per-world |
| 13:35 |
rubenwardy |
nah, 32bit would be better |
| 13:35 |
rubenwardy |
but this is all mute anyway - |
| 13:35 |
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| 13:35 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, 32bit is overkill |
| 13:35 |
rubenwardy |
I meant 16 |
| 13:36 |
segfault22 |
1024bit for teh win |
| 13:36 |
red-001 |
1 gib |
| 13:36 |
Fixer |
red-001: yes |
| 13:36 |
rubenwardy |
RAM is cheap though |
| 13:37 |
APNG |
give me 3TB RAM sticks and I'll be happy with that |
| 13:37 |
segfault22 |
just kidding lol |
| 13:37 |
rubenwardy |
compared to textures and sounds, this won't be much |
| 13:37 |
Fixer |
red-001: weather mod forked by xaranas is quite nice, the only problem is if you use lightning |
| 13:37 |
Fixer |
fuck updatelightning! |
| 13:37 |
Fixer |
wonder where is Millersman with his water reflow pr |
| 13:37 |
rubenwardy |
we also don't have the JVM looming over us, so we have more RAM to spare |
| 13:38 |
segfault22 |
Weather would be best implemented in the engine; making a mod for weather because the engine doesn't have an api for it is like making a mod for mob-entities because the engine doesn't have an api for it, and using nodes to represent them |
| 13:38 |
segfault22 |
er, an api in the engine, accessible via the Lua api |
| 13:38 |
red-001 |
wouldn't being able to change the cloud colour be useful for weather mods? |
| 13:38 |
segfault22 |
well yes |
| 13:38 |
rubenwardy |
being able to control cloud placement would be even more useful :D |
| 13:38 |
Fixer |
red-001: yes |
| 13:39 |
Fixer |
clouds are client side |
| 13:39 |
segfault22 |
so it would be best to extend the Lua API to include a system for weather; we can steal one from minecraft and just use textures that make it look like a bunch of rain is falling, instead of trying to render a particle per raindrop |
| 13:40 |
Hirato |
we kind of just drop a billboard per raindrop now, haha |
| 13:40 |
APNG |
segfault22, ew |
| 13:40 |
segfault22 |
imagine it starts raining all of a sudden and each raindrop is a particle entity, and there's well over 400 of 'em |
| 13:40 |
APNG |
just use a shader |
| 13:40 |
Fixer |
not sure if texture is good for this |
| 13:40 |
red-001 |
welcome to game dev, if you can't write it, just fake it |
| 13:40 |
Fixer |
APNG: shaders are slowing down a lot |
| 13:40 |
APNG |
a proper shader-based rain is much better than stupid things |
| 13:40 |
Hirato |
if you're doing proper raindrops, I'd expect at least 10k present on screen :P |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
whats the big problem with particles? |
| 13:41 |
APNG |
shaders can do 10k raindrops |
| 13:41 |
red-001 |
APNG you would need someone to write the shader |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
I've played Project IGI that got particles in 2001 and it was running fine |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
rain |
| 13:41 |
APNG |
red-001, GLSL isn't hard |
| 13:41 |
segfault22 |
shaders are only good if you have a fast grafix processor to compute them, otherwise you're looking at some 0.3 FPS while some mob is ripping your face off and all you can do is listen to the low-latency sound system tell you how its going down |
| 13:41 |
Hirato |
I think they might be spawned server side in minetest |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
don't bother with shaders |
| 13:41 |
Fixer |
or textures |
| 13:42 |
APNG |
segfault22, then tune down the shader a bit |
| 13:42 |
Fixer |
if you enable shaders you loose a lot of performance without much benefit |
| 13:42 |
red-001 |
hirato they are clientsided |
| 13:42 |
Hirato |
red-001: oh, did that change? |
| 13:43 |
Hirato |
I jsut remember the weather mod being very slow with almost no rain density with it creating little water puddles all over the place |
| 13:44 |
red-001 |
Idk |
| 13:44 |
segfault22 |
it doesnt have to create water puddles; it can simply infleunce the node's humidity value, but thats a topic for many years from now when the node system is entirely different and everything is smooth because volumes of material instead of cubes of crap |
| 13:45 |
Fixer |
puddles will slow down everything to sgit |
| 13:45 |
Hirato |
probably didn't help that I tend to use debug builds |
| 13:45 |
Fixer |
+ lots of light update causes fps stutter |
| 13:45 |
Hirato |
which is apparently about 20x slower than the release one in the case of minetest |
| 13:45 |
segfault22 |
puddles have to be implemented by placing nodes randomly, but it would be different if the humidity property of dirt nodes at the ground is incremented relative to how much rain is falling |
| 13:46 |
segfault22 |
not that there is a humidity property yet, but that would be better because it would give the water somewhere to "go" and make tree growth have more sense |
| 13:49 |
segfault22 |
still not sure what to call that power-systems mod I'm going to make... |
| 13:49 |
segfault22 |
applied magnetodynamics (amd)? |
| 13:50 |
segfault22 |
thermal expansion is already taken and I don't want to be called "the ripoff clone guy" |
| 13:51 |
segfault22 |
applied energistics is also taken |
| 13:55 |
segfault22 |
meh, applied magnetodynamics it is |
| 13:56 |
segfault22 |
maybe I should make an irc-client script to get the name of every person connected to the channel and recursively say their names one by one into chat as fast as possible |
| 13:56 |
Hirato |
recursively? |
| 13:56 |
segfault22 |
sayone, enter, say next, enter, say next, enter, and so on |
| 13:57 |
Hirato |
the word you're looknig for is iteratively |
| 13:57 |
segfault22 |
not sure if I spelled it right or its the wrong word |
| 13:57 |
segfault22 |
yes, iteratively |
| 13:57 |
segfault22 |
sorry' |
| 13:57 |
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| 13:57 |
segfault22 |
is "applied magnetodynamics" a catchy mod-name? |
| 13:58 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Document --colors in README 79121ad https://git.io/v6hKX (2016-08-28T15:58:06+02:00) |
| 13:58 |
segfault22 |
yay :D |
| 13:59 |
Hirato |
gosh sfan5, at leasst spell colours correctly ;) |
| 13:59 |
sfan5 |
:D |
| 13:59 |
shivajiva |
XD |
| 13:59 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 14:00 |
shivajiva |
segfault I think tenplus1 has a script for that |
| 14:01 |
Hirato |
!rainbow puppies! |
| 14:01 |
MinetestBot |
4pu7pp8ie3s! |
| 14:01 |
sfan5 |
!cat |
| 14:01 |
MinetestBot |
http://i.imgur.com/3l1REu3.jpg |
| 14:02 |
Hirato |
disappointed by lack of nyancat |
| 14:02 |
sfan5 |
:D |
| 14:02 |
sfan5 |
!cat |
| 14:02 |
MinetestBot |
http://i.imgur.com/9tHeEYj.jpg |
| 14:04 |
segfault22 |
!cat |
| 14:04 |
MinetestBot |
http://i.imgur.com/ZT2jVRu.jpg |
| 14:04 |
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| 14:04 |
segfault22 |
that's cool |
| 14:04 |
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Wuzzy joined #minetest |
| 14:05 |
Hirato |
less of that, more of this http://i.imgur.com/GsXRJDK.jpg |
| 14:05 |
segfault22 |
... |
| 14:05 |
segfault22 |
... ... |
| 14:05 |
segfault22 |
cat? |
| 14:05 |
Hirato |
...! |
| 14:06 |
segfault22 |
I thought it was cat not rainbow poptart anime |
| 14:07 |
segfault22 |
if someone hosts a minetest server with illegal content that is sent to everyone's minetest texture cache, are the affected players criminals for having downloaded it? |
| 14:07 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 14:07 |
segfault22 |
or not because plausible deniability |
| 14:07 |
Hirato |
http://i.imgur.com/7KKRBTr.jpg :3 |
| 14:07 |
sfan5 |
law is interpreted by courts with common sense, not computers |
| 14:07 |
sfan5 |
Hirato: >furry |
| 14:08 |
Hirato |
who cares, it's nyancat |
| 14:08 |
segfault22 |
oh did you know that jurors can determine the outcome of a trial, even decide that it should be contrary to the "law" |
| 14:08 |
Hirato |
not nyancatgirl |
| 14:08 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 14:08 |
Hirato |
segfault22: did you know that juries are never told about jury nullification |
| 14:08 |
segfault22 |
of course |
| 14:09 |
segfault22 |
that's how I found out about it - some fringe website with "other crap" like rusia's tesla technology program, longitudinal EM waves, how magnets really work and stuff like that |
| 14:09 |
segfault22 |
russia |
| 14:09 |
Hirato |
so how do magnets really work |
| 14:09 |
APNG |
I wish minetest had more furries |
| 14:10 |
segfault22 |
okay so you know how you can make a coil of wire, pass a current through it and it generates a magmetic field? and it consumes real power the whole while? |
| 14:10 |
segfault22 |
magnetic |
| 14:10 |
segfault22 |
permanent magnets are the same, except they're made up of a bunch of tiny electromagnets being powered by... space itself. |
| 14:11 |
APNG |
segfault22, no |
| 14:11 |
segfault22 |
you don't have to put power into them to make them work, but the consume real power - the power is coming in from the environment, so no violation of thermodynamics |
| 14:11 |
APNG |
it's not the magnetic field that's consuming the power |
| 14:11 |
APNG |
it's the heat |
| 14:11 |
segfault22 |
whatever |
| 14:11 |
segfault22 |
you have to produce a current, to put electrons in motion you have to use energy |
| 14:11 |
APNG |
a superconductor consumes no power |
| 14:12 |
segfault22 |
right, unless you want to turn it on, and unless there is parasitic inductance to nearby resistive materials |
| 14:12 |
segfault22 |
or parasitic capacitance |
| 14:12 |
APNG |
true |
| 14:12 |
red-001 |
did the PR for adding the on_enter event to formspecs get mergerd? |
| 14:12 |
APNG |
the same is true of permanent magnets, when you make a permanent magnet you basically just turn it on |
| 14:13 |
segfault22 |
electrons spin around the nucleus of atoms perpetually, even though some amount of resistance is "felt" by every electron |
| 14:13 |
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| 14:14 |
segfault22 |
now, do you want to know how to "toggle" a permanent magnet on/off? |
| 14:14 |
APNG |
heat it up to the currie temp and apply a magnetic field, then, while keeping the magnetic field on, cool the new permanent magnet down |
| 14:15 |
segfault22 |
okay without using the same amount of power needed to initialize the field in the first place |
| 14:15 |
shivajiva |
Sweet's VT anyone? |
| 14:15 |
APNG |
what do you mean? |
| 14:15 |
segfault22 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_UHixEy7xU |
| 14:17 |
segfault22 |
the VTA is a little bit too fringe for here, there's no way you can put stuff you have in your house into a form to demonstrate it because Floyd Sweet took the knowledge to his grave |
| 14:18 |
segfault22 |
let's only consider stuff that you can make by, say, tearing apart broken fan motors and raping transformer coils for magnet wire; stuff where the concept that makes it work is understood well enough for anyone to replicate it |
| 14:20 |
segfault22 |
remember that video I just linked to? Well, take a ring magnet and put a bunch of small electromagnets on it, construct a rotor with one or more smaller magnets on it and placed near the ring magnet with the coils between them, power each coil when a rotor magnet is above it and now you are producing more shaft torque power than the power needed to run the electromagnets - how? by diferting the permanent magnet's field and making it work for you. |
| 14:20 |
segfault22 |
I am not supposed to say that they will probably come for me dont tell your family |
| 14:21 |
shivajiva |
:) |
| 14:21 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 14:22 |
segfault22 |
nah they only come for you if you try to make money from the power, or sell/give-away units to other people, right? |
| 14:22 |
shivajiva |
yea, just checking if it had been absorbed ;-) |
| 14:24 |
segfault22 |
so can they "see" you using the magnets' power like they can see you tapping the ZPE field with the VTA? or does it just "look" like any ol' fan motor on the "scanner" |
| 14:24 |
shivajiva |
VTA scared the crap out of him when he went over 1Kw if the tales are true |
| 14:25 |
segfault22 |
yeah I read somewhere that the magnets are stressed immensely and that they could explode like hand grenades |
| 14:25 |
segfault22 |
not something to try at home even if we did know how |
| 14:25 |
shivajiva |
supposedly everyone in the building heard a vortex |
| 14:25 |
segfault22 |
cool |
| 14:26 |
segfault22 |
I love stuff like that, even if it is dangerous |
| 14:26 |
aix |
guys |
| 14:26 |
shivajiva |
yea tesla's stuff is so dangerous |
| 14:26 |
aix |
can i have a little hand with a mod |
| 14:26 |
segfault22 |
yes |
| 14:26 |
aix |
it's minimesecons |
| 14:26 |
segfault22 |
ok whats the problem? |
| 14:27 |
aix |
https://sr.ht/NtdG.txt ignoring this, ghoststone disappears after being placed |
| 14:28 |
segfault22 |
that's weird |
| 14:28 |
aix |
never happened before |
| 14:28 |
segfault22 |
I haven't any experience with that kind of problem,... what happens when you power the spot its supposed to be, with a mesecon? |
| 14:29 |
aix |
it disappears then reappears when the signal is taken away |
| 14:29 |
aix |
then disappears and doesnt come back |
| 14:31 |
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| 14:33 |
rubenwardy |
!title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15419 |
| 14:33 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: [Mod] Text / Code Editor [0.1][editor] - Minetest Forums |
| 14:35 |
Krock |
that init.lua has an error on line 1 |
| 14:36 |
rubenwardy |
yep :P |
| 14:36 |
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| 14:38 |
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| 14:38 |
Fixer |
._. |
| 14:39 |
Fixer |
Posts: 4242 |
| 14:39 |
Fixer |
what spammer |
| 14:39 |
Fixer |
rank: spammer |
| 14:40 |
Krock |
I have 3421 posts.. what a spammer |
| 14:41 |
rubenwardy |
nice number, 4242 |
| 14:41 |
rubenwardy |
I've almost caught up with Jordach |
| 14:41 |
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| 14:42 |
aix |
segfault22: here http://naco.aix.ovh:8080/ |
| 14:42 |
Krock |
It's the answer or life, universe and everything, TWO times! |
| 14:44 |
agaran |
is there some routine that turns pos into hex string? |
| 14:45 |
rubenwardy |
tbf, I don't shit post |
| 14:45 |
rubenwardy |
well, not sure if I have in the past |
| 14:45 |
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| 14:54 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, try being away for nearly ~3 years |
| 14:54 |
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| 14:54 |
rubenwardy |
Jordach, very very true :) |
| 14:54 |
KaadmY |
"for nearly about 3 years" |
| 14:54 |
rubenwardy |
it's impressive it's taken me this long to cache up |
| 14:55 |
KaadmY |
catch*? |
| 14:55 |
rubenwardy |
oh yeah |
| 14:55 |
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| 14:56 |
mouboo |
hey there. If i use the world Anchor from the Technic mod. he didnt keeps my network loaded. it says 0/8 loaded. What am i doing wrong? |
| 15:02 |
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| 15:03 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, life plus some other stuff, i feel like making a dark souls level difficult subgame |
| 15:04 |
Jordach |
"you died" -> loss of items and respawn from -30k to 30k |
| 15:04 |
red-001 |
sounds fun |
| 15:06 |
rubenwardy |
I would try that |
| 15:06 |
rubenwardy |
although Minetest's weapons system sucks |
| 15:06 |
Jordach |
it's literally a new beginning, although you could find relics if you're lucky |
| 15:06 |
aix |
is there a simple http server i can use to share the contents of a mod without zipping the whole thing up? |
| 15:07 |
shivajiva |
github :) |
| 15:07 |
aix |
the mime type's wrong but here http://naco.aix.ovh:8080/ |
| 15:07 |
aix |
too much effort on my part |
| 15:07 |
aix |
i meant sharing for debugging |
| 15:07 |
aix |
and it's hardly my own mod |
| 15:07 |
rubenwardy |
please don't host a mod yourself |
| 15:08 |
aix |
... |
| 15:08 |
rubenwardy |
segfault22 can tell you what happened when 0gb_us hosted a mod yourself |
| 15:08 |
aix |
it's broken and i need help debugging |
| 15:08 |
rubenwardy |
oh, ok |
| 15:08 |
aix |
i figured this'd be helpful |
| 15:08 |
rubenwardy |
that's fine then |
| 15:08 |
agaran |
rubenwardy: why hosting mod on own stuff is bad? |
| 15:08 |
red-001 |
https://transfer.sh/ |
| 15:08 |
aix |
but the mime type isn's "text/plain" so it offers to open the file instead of showing it in the browser |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
because people have a tendency to disappear, agaran |
| 15:09 |
rubenwardy |
tbf, only hosting a mod at one place is the problem |
| 15:09 |
red-001 |
why don't you want to zip it up? |
| 15:09 |
agaran |
well sometimes it is a feature |
| 15:09 |
red-001 |
it takes seconds |
| 15:10 |
aix |
can i get some help with my broken mod? :P |
| 15:10 |
red-001 |
yes? |
| 15:14 |
aix |
also, how hard would it be to merge the zcg mod with the xdecor crafting guide? |
| 15:15 |
* twoelk |
has launched 10 equal balls in rubenwardy's gravity simulation page a while ago and notices he doesn't understand celestial physics at all |
| 15:16 |
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| 15:17 |
red-001 |
link? |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:25 |
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| 15:28 |
rubenwardy |
twoelk, well, it simulates the gravity and relativity equations, but not collision |
| 15:28 |
rubenwardy |
http://physics.rubenwardy.com/ http://physics.rubenwardy.com/sims/gravity/gravity.html |
| 15:28 |
rubenwardy |
red-001 ^ |
| 15:30 |
segfault22 |
we can define gravity with constants and equations, but mainstream sciense still doesn't know how it works |
| 15:30 |
segfault22 |
science |
| 15:30 |
segfault22 |
Can you make a simulator that accurately predicts gravity based on the zero-point field theory of gravity? |
| 15:30 |
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| 15:31 |
segfault22 |
too many subdomains |
| 15:32 |
twoelk |
and I guess no movement energy is lost, so that they might never form a stable heap such as when the planets formed |
| 15:33 |
rubenwardy |
that sim's still a work in progressâ„¢ |
| 15:33 |
rubenwardy |
that collision code is place holder |
| 15:33 |
segfault22 |
Can you make a simulator that accurately predicts gravity based on the zero-point field theory of gravity? |
| 15:33 |
twoelk |
after forming a heap with relative little inner movement the balls disband aghain all over the screen |
| 15:33 |
rubenwardy |
no idea, I'd have to read some stuff about that |
| 15:34 |
segfault22 |
its kinda fringe |
| 15:34 |
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| 15:35 |
aix |
anyone have a copy of morefurnaces? |
| 15:35 |
aritz |
Do you know any Spanish Server for Minetest?? |
| 15:35 |
aritz |
(nobady in the Spanish channel, sorry) |
| 15:36 |
segfault22 |
basically your constants and equations have to be used to get the "numbers" because nobody has done the work there yet, but the idea goes like this: the zero point field exerts a constant force in all directions in all space free of matter. But when it passes through matter, the field is "dampened", so in terms of just one ray of the force for example, it is dampened passing through the earth, but on the other side the opposite force is greater sin |
| 15:36 |
segfault22 |
ce it wasn't dampened by passing through matter, and a net force is generated |
| 15:37 |
segfault22 |
when you try to look it up on google, you get either zero-point theory results or generic gravity results, and images is full of the physics gun from gary's mod, so I'll have to link you to the website where I found it |
| 15:38 |
twoelk |
force generated? from what? |
| 15:39 |
segfault22 |
... the zero-point field, what else? |
| 15:39 |
twoelk |
so it stores energy? |
| 15:39 |
segfault22 |
matter doesn't just generate a force from nothing, it has to come from somewhere |
| 15:39 |
segfault22 |
no its like a seething sea of energy in limitless quantity |
| 15:40 |
twoelk |
so from nothing after all? |
| 15:40 |
segfault22 |
not quite |
| 15:41 |
segfault22 |
it only looks like nothing because we feeble humans can't "see" the source, but then again we can't see radio waves, so why should a tv set work? |
| 15:41 |
twoelk |
or is a universe full of energy slowly converting to somer other form? |
| 15:42 |
segfault22 |
do you think the universe is a closed system? |
| 15:42 |
segfault22 |
er, the observable portion |
| 15:43 |
twoelk |
always thought so :D |
| 15:43 |
segfault22 |
remember there's all that dark matter and dark energy we can't see and also can't explain, we only know its there because we can see some of the after-effects |
| 15:44 |
twoelk |
strilkl part of the system - albeit needed to explain what we can observe |
| 15:44 |
twoelk |
*still |
| 15:45 |
segfault22 |
electrons don't ever slow down orbiting their nucleus, we could just say "derp uncertainty principle derp" but that doesn't explain how they can continue to do work against resistance like their parasitic inductance and capacitance with all other electrons, especially the electrons of nearby atoms moving the opposite way |
| 15:46 |
segfault22 |
do you believe in the casimir effect? |
| 15:47 |
twoelk |
friction is simply too small campared to their orbital energy ;-P |
| 15:48 |
segfault22 |
too small maybe, but not 0 |
| 15:48 |
segfault22 |
there is always a net drag or resistance even if it is tiny, and it would be measurable |
| 15:49 |
segfault22 |
therefore, energy is coming in from "somewhere" to keep that orbital energy replenished against that tiny resistance |
| 15:49 |
twoelk |
dont recall anything like casimir effect - school is somewhat long ago |
| 15:49 |
segfault22 |
you won't learn about this stuff ins school |
| 15:49 |
twoelk |
so I guessed |
| 15:50 |
segfault22 |
this is like beyond the fringes of mainstream science, you could say it's a sort of "twilight zone" |
| 15:50 |
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| 15:51 |
* red-001 |
waits for someone to implement this in minetest |
| 15:51 |
twoelk |
I only studied the physics of building and most rockets I built sort of exploded :D |
| 15:51 |
segfault22 |
there's lots of knowledge, proof to back it up and experiments you can do to confirm the theory, but if you try to look it up on wikipedia or science research websites, you get either "no results" or some guy saying "derp thats just pseudoscience derp" (without actually doing said experiments, of course) |
| 15:51 |
* red-001 |
will wait for a long time |
| 15:54 |
segfault22 |
you'll notice one massive coincidence where the people who deny a lot of theories like zero-point gravity and permanent magnets consuming real power, will either do no experiments to investigate and have proof to support their claims, or they will do the experiment but in such a way that is obviously contradicting how it is set-out by the people who come up with the "theory" |
| 15:54 |
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| 15:55 |
segfault22 |
like, they make this wild contraption using permanent magnets to try to suststain its motion forever or produce extra torque, but it's obvious how they set it up that it wouldn't really work except as a really inefficient magnetic bearing, then they use it as "proof" to claim there is no real power being consumed by permanent magnets |
| 15:55 |
rubenwardy |
this is the only paper I get in a search: http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.39.2333 |
| 15:56 |
rubenwardy |
is that the right thing and does it have other names? |
| 15:56 |
segfault22 |
I remember that word, Zitterbewegung, from the site where I learned about it... |
| 15:56 |
segfault22 |
it looks like the right one (or one of) |
| 15:57 |
segfault22 |
aww but its a damn paywall scam site, too bad |
| 15:57 |
agaran |
is there any mechanism that will indicate than >1 recipe matches to given substrates? |
| 15:57 |
segfault22 |
I'll try to find the reference on that other site I found it on |
| 15:57 |
segfault22 |
:D |
| 15:58 |
segfault22 |
I still think it's a scam, to force people to pay for science literature, when the actual scientists doing the work don't get any of that money, just the people who run the paysite (usually a university or a university-cabal) |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
It is |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
easpecially sites like JCAR or whatever it's called |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
which stop journals falling out of copyright, and host them explusively |
| 15:59 |
rubenwardy |
*clusively |
| 15:59 |
segfault22 |
the scientists get a few peanuts a day for teaching kiddos some mainstream science stuff they're allowed to talk about, not anything like what the actual owners get for "their big part" |
| 16:00 |
segfault22 |
they may get a few cents for each copy that someone pays for, but it's nothing like what gets taken home by the people "running the show" |
| 16:00 |
aritz |
how can I accept rules in a server?? |
| 16:00 |
segfault22 |
and most of it doesn't even go into real costs to "run the show", just profits for nothing |
| 16:00 |
red-001 |
depends on the server |
| 16:01 |
red-001 |
try /rules |
| 16:01 |
red-001 |
or /rules accept |
| 16:01 |
twoelk |
/me misses his status as university member |
| 16:02 |
segfault22 |
if its just a list on some signs or in chat, then usually there isn't any need to signify that you accept. But if it prompts you to accept by typing a command or clicking a button, then it's what to do |
| 16:03 |
segfault22 |
I will never be a university member; it costs too much and there isn't any real benefit. Sure, you get access to all of this mainstream science literature and some free peanuts every so often, but you will never find anything like what you can find in just a few minutes of searching the internet for the "banned knowledge" they are so afraid of |
| 16:06 |
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| 16:09 |
Nosrick |
agrecascino, new shit will be coming soon. |
| 16:12 |
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| 16:12 |
Calinou |
segfault22: my university pays me, I don't pay for it |
| 16:12 |
rubenwardy |
that took longer than expected |
| 16:13 |
twoelk |
lucky you Calinou , those jobs never lasted long for me |
| 16:14 |
Calinou |
it's not a job, it's a scholarship |
| 16:16 |
twoelk |
ah, wasn't smart enough for that ;-P |
| 16:17 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy, aahhhhhhhh physics D: |
| 16:17 |
rubenwardy |
TheReaperKing, edited to add an example snippet: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15419&p=231411#p231411 |
| 16:18 |
rubenwardy |
edited again |
| 16:18 |
twoelk |
I only got the one or other odd job at university, always limited, so others got a chance |
| 16:19 |
agaran |
rubenwardy: awesome :) |
| 16:21 |
segfault22 |
thank you rubenwardy :D |
| 16:22 |
segfault22 |
hey, this one was typed on a typewriter back in March 1988, but they still charge people to access it |
| 16:24 |
segfault22 |
rubenwardy I would have never gotten to read the actual paper had you not given it to me, thank you :D |
| 16:24 |
rubenwardy |
welcome :D |
| 16:25 |
segfault22 |
make sure to remove it soon, though, so "they" don't come after you for giving away a resource for free from behind their paywall |
| 16:26 |
twoelk |
so being part of a university has benefits after all |
| 16:27 |
twoelk |
integrals? ugh, I never could get on friendly terms with those |
| 16:32 |
segfault22 |
So do you think the mod name "applied magnetodynamics" is catchy, or is it just lame? to be honest, "thermal expansion" is way more catchy and not lame, but it's already taken |
| 16:32 |
segfault22 |
at least I could make the mod id/shortname "amd" |
| 16:35 |
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| 16:37 |
TheReaperKing |
Hey thanks rubenwardy!! |
| 16:37 |
TheReaperKing |
We'll test it on Tuesday! Monday we're covering installing linux :) |
| 16:37 |
segfault22 |
:D |
| 16:37 |
red-001 |
abusing faulty physics mod |
| 16:38 |
red-001 |
yet another energy mod? |
| 16:39 |
red-001 |
yaem for short |
| 16:40 |
rubenwardy |
split editor into editor (a API/library mod) and insecure lua editor: https://github.com/rubenwardy/editor_insecure_lua |
| 16:40 |
rubenwardy |
there, pushed |
| 16:40 |
twoelk |
well you learn to manipulate things according to a set of rules. doesnt matter wether its fantasy, science fiction, real live or game logic as long as it is logical according to its own rules and relative fun to use |
| 16:42 |
twoelk |
probably life is simply used to it and has learned to get along |
| 16:43 |
aix |
i'm watching some players do the join maze on my server and im wondering |
| 16:43 |
aix |
how can people be this dumb |
| 16:43 |
segfault22 |
lol |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
!title https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15420 |
| 16:44 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: [Mod] Insecure Lua Editor [0.1][editor_insecure_lua] - Minetest Forums |
| 16:44 |
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resident joined #minetest |
| 16:44 |
segfault22 |
looks like fun |
| 16:46 |
segfault22 |
by "insecure" do you mean "players can use this to deop all admins while away, grant themselves and their buds all privileges, and proceed to rape everything in the game-world with explosives and worldedit in massive gravel-cubes until the server dies"? |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 16:46 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 16:46 |
aix |
sounds like fun |
| 16:48 |
segfault22 |
I remember in the past, I used some social engineering to get grant and worldedit privileges on menche's server, banned the idiots while he was away, destroyed everything with lava, then spawned massive gravel-cubes and set them all in motion at the same time,... the sun set and rose several times without lighting changing at all, it was so creepy but I had fun |
| 16:49 |
rubenwardy |
Oh noes! He's a griefer! |
| 16:50 |
aix |
segfault22: ... |
| 16:50 |
aix |
that sounds like GREAT FUN |
| 16:52 |
segfault22 |
it was because he let some kid destroy a creeper face thing I made near my town, let the same kid take-over my town because in the past I said she could be mayor if I could be "emperor" over several towns of mine (he basically said "derp thats not allowed derp shes owner now derp"), then gave her /grant privileges and she took away my shout privilege when I was trying to convince him to give me back my town |
| 16:52 |
resident |
what's a good mineCRAFT modpack that has to do with alchemy and magic |
| 16:53 |
* twoelk |
checks his bouncing gravity centers and notices 4 less than a while ago |
| 16:53 |
segfault22 |
He obviously didn't care about the only player who spent any significant time there relative to the others, the only one pretty much responsible for supporting the gold-based economy, the only one with a public tree farm, etc etc etc... |
| 16:54 |
segfault22 |
so even after it was all fixed back to what it was before, the server lost popularity and all of that traffic faded away, starting the day I was no longer allowed to connect |
| 16:54 |
segfault22 |
he eventually shut it down because nobody would even come to the server for more time than it takes to realize its abandoned |
| 16:55 |
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| 16:56 |
segfault22 |
It didn't have to be that way but he determined the outcome as soon as he decided to get rid of his server's only loyal player |
| 16:56 |
resident |
whom are you talking to |
| 16:57 |
segfault22 |
Therefore, I am glad the server is gone, I am glad for what I did, and I know it would have happened even if I didn't grief everything, and I don't care if anyone thinks I'm a bad person for it - they don't know the story so they have no room to be judging who'se right |
| 16:57 |
segfault22 |
whom am I talking to? whoever will listen. Who am I talking about? menche |
| 16:58 |
segfault22 |
[12:49:50] rubenwardy: Oh noes! He's a griefer! |
| 16:58 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 16:58 |
Ronsor |
wew |
| 16:58 |
Ronsor |
wait a griefer |
| 16:58 |
Ronsor |
where |
| 16:58 |
Ronsor |
i banned that |
| 17:00 |
segfault22 |
I'm not really a griefer like your average griefer, but when I am provoked by, say, being the only loyal player on your server and you ruining everything I worked so hard to build just to spite me, then I will use social engineering (and sometimes spoof the names of popular people like sfan5, sorry but its part of the "game" at that stage) to get control of the server and rip a new rear-end-hole in it with falling gravel cubes so massive you cant s |
| 17:00 |
segfault22 |
ee all of it on one screen |
| 17:01 |
Ronsor |
ok see /r/justiceporn mmk |
| 17:01 |
sfan5 |
cool |
| 17:01 |
sfan5 |
can you fuck off maybe |
| 17:01 |
segfault22 |
and if I get SSH access to the console where the bash script is running (unlikely, because its illegal to do that and I don't have the 1337 h4xx0r t00lz) I can delete your backups and/or overwrite all of them with the screwed-world database |
| 17:01 |
segfault22 |
sfan5 I don't mean anything personal against you, they were idiots and they had it coming already |
| 17:02 |
segfault22 |
they didn't even care to notice I mistyped the name blatantly, it was obvious by they still let me in |
| 17:02 |
segfault22 |
you're a good person and they know it wasn't you, its just social-engineering/return-business for what they did to me |
| 17:02 |
sfan5 |
assholes gotta be assholes i guess |
| 17:03 |
segfault22 |
You don't know what they did |
| 17:03 |
TheReaperKing |
Thanks rubenwardy! Downloading |
| 17:03 |
segfault22 |
it had to be done, even though the result (server lost popularity because economy died, tree farm went into ruin, etc.) would have been the same regardless |
| 17:04 |
twoelk |
I dont believe in revenge as a working system on any server or playing community as such |
| 17:04 |
|
CuriousErnestBro left #minetest |
| 17:04 |
segfault22 |
It had nothing to do with you, especially since they quickly figured out it was good ol' me back for revenge |
| 17:05 |
segfault22 |
there's only one place for it: when they treat you unequally for whatever reason, even though you're the most loyal player who basically created the whole economy, and decide its time to screw you and destroy everything you worked so hard to create (give it away to some kid who plays with it like a kid smashing toy cars into each-other) |
| 17:07 |
segfault22 |
sure, it's not right, and I know this; but what they did is still unacceptable, and the end result was inevitable regardless of if I had just decided to forget and let them be (server lost popularity, got took down); I was just having fun |
| 17:08 |
segfault22 |
unacceptable, as in if they were doing this in the real world where people can't just leave the server, the whole town would have took to the streets with their guns and lit-up torches, janked the perps out of their cozy beds at night, hung em up on a tree from their legs and I don't need to illustrate the rest. |
| 17:08 |
segfault22 |
it's not cool, it's not right, but they had it coming, and they also had backups so it didn't matter |
| 17:09 |
twoelk |
and I guess people who gain satisfaction from revenge sort of creep me out besides annoying me. I greatly dislike the thinking of "if I cant have it, nobody should" |
| 17:09 |
Megaf |
!server MineDigger |
| 17:09 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: MineDiggerTestServer | mt.megaf.info | Clients: 2/50, 1/6 | Version: 0.4.14 / MineDigger | Ping: 6ms |
| 17:09 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 17:09 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/20, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 8ms |
| 17:10 |
segfault22 |
it's not the thinking of "f I can;t have it, nobody should" - it's the thinking of "I gave them everything and they decided to screw me and took all the little bit of what I had left over for myself, so this is what they get for it" |
| 17:10 |
agaran |
Megaf: two servers? |
| 17:11 |
segfault22 |
really I was the only player on the server mining any significant amount of ore, the only one who created a public tree farm, the only one to maintain a useful road-system, the only one to do pretty much everything that made the server worth visiting |
| 17:11 |
Megaf |
agaran: the MineDigger one is a server running my very own fork of the Minetest Engine and custom subgame |
| 17:11 |
Megaf |
it's just a test though |
| 17:11 |
agaran |
ah |
| 17:12 |
segfault22 |
I never want to grief anyone's server,... but if they grief me, game over. |
| 17:12 |
twoelk |
segfault22: so it has to end in total destruction for all? |
| 17:13 |
segfault22 |
not really because they had backups, and I already knew the server was losing popularity and eventually it would get taken down (it was like a week after they did it to me, there used to be a constant 5 orso players online then it only had about one or occasionally two every so often) |
| 17:14 |
segfault22 |
the whole point is, it was already ending in total destruction regardless of what I did. The server was on its way out because I was pretty much the only one holding the place together. |
| 17:14 |
segfault22 |
and when they kicked me out, people stopped coming back because there wasn't much resources to be had easily, and the other good people were leaving too |
| 17:15 |
|
PseudoNoob joined #minetest |
| 17:15 |
|
edaq joined #minetest |
| 17:15 |
segfault22 |
when I was there, you could collect some trees or whatever and exchange them for gold, then take that gold and exchange it for diamonds and get all your best tools for less work-time than usual. |
| 17:15 |
segfault22 |
when they kicked me out, the economy ran out and people were left to go fend for themselves like it's just singleplayer |
| 17:15 |
twoelk |
still, knowing there are backups should not be used as an excuse for griefing |
| 17:16 |
|
Yst joined #minetest |
| 17:16 |
segfault22 |
backups is not an only excuse, remember the server was already dying because the economy was getting picked by the buzzards and people were left to fend for themselves just like singleplayer, it was no fun and people were leaving and never coming back |
| 17:17 |
segfault22 |
I have already stated that it wasn't right to do what I did, but you weren't there to see what they did to me so how would you know anyways? |
| 17:17 |
Nosrick |
Does a player have an on_die function? |
| 17:17 |
|
blerttt joined #minetest |
| 17:17 |
segfault22 |
I hope so |
| 17:17 |
Megaf |
agaran: http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/MineDigger |
| 17:18 |
|
Trustable joined #minetest |
| 17:18 |
segfault22 |
Don't you have any other argument for why it was so bad for me to do what I did? come on, you haven't given up judging me have you? |
| 17:18 |
TheReaperKing |
I guess his name is apt at least |
| 17:19 |
segfault22 |
I thought I would finally get a chance to let people know why it happened the way it did, when they were never there to know and all they get for information is the server-owner ranting about how bad of a person I am for "ruining his server" |
| 17:20 |
blerttt |
where can i find minetest player model? |
| 17:20 |
TheReaperKing |
Why don't you talk to the actual admin |
| 17:20 |
TheReaperKing |
instead of people that don't know anything about it or have nothing to do with it |
| 17:20 |
segfault22 |
the actual admin also left minetest, or at least it looks that way |
| 17:20 |
twoelk |
indeed I may have never witnissed your genius at trolling segfault22, but I have played on many servers for quite a while and have expierienced many an idiot who spoiled the game for me. |
| 17:21 |
TheReaperKing |
blerttt: games/minetest_game/mods/default/models |
| 17:21 |
segfault22 |
Here's some "thought food": if the other players were even partially loyal, and the server backups restored in short time like they were, why did people stop coming back and playing on the server only after I was kicked out and before I decided to go on my rampage? |
| 17:21 |
blerttt |
ty reaper king |
| 17:22 |
TheReaperKing |
:) |
| 17:22 |
twoelk |
maybe they missed the drama? ;-P |
| 17:22 |
Nosrick |
They probably didn't want to deal with you. |
| 17:22 |
segfault22 |
some people were playing on the server for a while and eventually left, but they had fun when I was there because the economy was thriving. If they had not kicked me out for being angry about the server owner giving my town away, it would be thriving today and popular |
| 17:22 |
Nosrick |
In case you came back, I mean. |
| 17:22 |
twoelk |
people simply move on and once the get established elsewher simply don't look back |
| 17:23 |
TheReaperKing |
seems like everyone lost out |
| 17:23 |
TheReaperKing |
over an issue that sounds like it could have been talked over and resolved |
| 17:23 |
Nosrick |
Yeah, people don't know how to communicate these days. |
| 17:23 |
Nosrick |
Instead jumping to childish actions, like griefing, or banning. |
| 17:23 |
Nosrick |
/old man rant |
| 17:24 |
TheReaperKing |
I think what you just said is super relevant in general |
| 17:24 |
segfault22 |
No, I tried to talk it out and resolve it and you know what happened? The server owner made the kid an administrator, and she took away my chat privilege when I tried to reason with the dude |
| 17:24 |
TheReaperKing |
I mean wow at my work like to the max |
| 17:24 |
TheReaperKing |
sounds like that was a good time to find a new server |
| 17:24 |
segfault22 |
they didn't even realize she did it until I started communicating to them through a sign |
| 17:24 |
Nosrick |
Wow, that sucks. |
| 17:25 |
TheReaperKing |
Yeah it is amazing the problems that wouldn't exist if just some simple communication and respect were present |
| 17:25 |
segfault22 |
I tried to reason with them and resolve the issues, but they wouldn't have it - its as id they were entirely set on making sure that I get removed from the server forever |
| 17:25 |
Nosrick |
Well, you did shit all over everything in retaliation. |
| 17:26 |
TheReaperKing |
If that server became a source of angst for you instead being fun, why come back? |
| 17:26 |
segfault22 |
There was plenty of communication and I respected the server owner and all of the players. They were good friends up until they decided to come against me |
| 17:26 |
Megaf |
dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting: |
| 17:26 |
Megaf |
fork failed: Cannot allocate memory |
| 17:26 |
TheReaperKing |
sounds like it isn't worth your time and mental energy anymore |
| 17:26 |
* Megaf |
needs more ram |
| 17:26 |
segfault22 |
it isn't, really |
| 17:26 |
Nosrick |
"I respected the server owner and all of the players" he lied, having griefed everything |
| 17:26 |
TheReaperKing |
and the griefing obviously didn't do you any good |
| 17:26 |
TheReaperKing |
perhaps even made things worse for you |
| 17:26 |
segfault22 |
Okay I'll be more accurate: I respected them up until they decided to stop respecting me, and destroy everything I created FOR them |
| 17:27 |
TheReaperKing |
as can be seen by your extreme amount of venting in here to people who have zero part of any of it |
| 17:27 |
segfault22 |
As I explained before, people were leaving and not coming back when they found out that the economy I had created was completely wiped-out |
| 17:27 |
TheReaperKing |
the griefing hurts you in other ways too |
| 17:27 |
segfault22 |
it was several days before I decided to do the rampage |
| 17:28 |
Nosrick |
Just curious; why are you telling a non-server related IRC channel all of this? |
| 17:28 |
TheReaperKing |
not only is it obviously hurting you right now, but also since you are telling everyone they will be hesitant to allow you on new servers |
| 17:28 |
twoelk |
nagged at his conscouisness so he had to reveal it and try to discuss his excusis for commiting havoc (argh - I need a faster dictionary) |
| 17:28 |
segfault22 |
I won't be joining any new servers, I'm going to make my own |
| 17:28 |
Megaf |
Nosrick: segfault22: If you want a server with decent and honest people just join my server, really |
| 17:28 |
TheReaperKing |
Nosrick: I can answer that |
| 17:28 |
Megaf |
most of us are 30+ years old and have jobs and family |
| 17:28 |
Krock |
"most" |
| 17:29 |
TheReaperKing |
it is because he is super upset and is venting whereever he can |
| 17:29 |
agaran |
Megaf: interesting commit messages |
| 17:29 |
Megaf |
3 or 4 active players are less than 18 |
| 17:29 |
Megaf |
I'm 29 |
| 17:29 |
Nosrick |
Hey Megaf, when my mod is a little more complete, would you perhaps consider using it? |
| 17:29 |
Megaf |
Nosrick: link? |
| 17:29 |
Nosrick |
https://github.com/Nosrick/MoMTest |
| 17:29 |
segfault22 |
I'm not still as angry as I was, but I still know what they did was wrong, and someone said something that led to me talking about what I did, and now we're here with all of you talking about how bad I am for what I did |
| 17:29 |
Nosrick |
I wouldn't use it yet, it's a little unstable. |
| 17:30 |
twoelk |
yep for others to read and learn |
| 17:30 |
Nosrick |
If you really want to test it, use the develop branch for now. |
| 17:30 |
Nosrick |
The master is a bit outdated. |
| 17:30 |
TheReaperKing |
segfault22: seems like you are the only one talking about how bad you are |
| 17:31 |
TheReaperKing |
I have a suggestion for you if you are willing to take it |
| 17:31 |
Megaf |
well, in my server I have an easy way to fix conflicts, put the conflicting parties locked together in the jail and let them kill each other until they get bored and leave the server |
| 17:31 |
TheReaperKing |
I think you should go for a run, or do some shadow boxing, or both |
| 17:31 |
segfault22 |
Did I say I was a bad person?... I don't remember doing that |
| 17:31 |
twoelk |
actually the social aspects of running a server can be a lot more demanding than technical issues |
| 17:31 |
TheReaperKing |
well you are the only one who has said that you are a bad person |
| 17:31 |
segfault22 |
and this was years ago, It doesn't really matter to me any more |
| 17:31 |
TheReaperKing |
it obviously does |
| 17:31 |
TheReaperKing |
or my chat wouldn't be filled with pink |
| 17:32 |
TheReaperKing |
aka what pidgin chose to have your name as |
| 17:32 |
segfault22 |
reference the chat-entry where I specifically said that I AM a bad person, and your claim stands, otherwise it's just a lie. |
| 17:32 |
TheReaperKing |
also find a new server and new friends and put all that behind you |
| 17:32 |
TheReaperKing |
it is the past, it is already done, can't be changed |
| 17:32 |
TheReaperKing |
move on, have fun, stop living in it |
| 17:32 |
TheReaperKing |
that is my advice |
| 17:32 |
segfault22 |
I did find a new server, Redcrab's server, and it was fun while it lasted |
| 17:32 |
TheReaperKing |
and go running |
| 17:32 |
TheReaperKing |
vent out all that frustration |
| 17:33 |
segfault22 |
I did find a new server, Redcrab's server, and it was fun while it lasted |
| 17:33 |
TheReaperKing |
"we're here with all of you talking about how bad I am for what I did" |
| 17:33 |
Nosrick |
What happened to Redcrab's server? |
| 17:33 |
segfault22 |
but people stopped coming there, and the economy died on its own (it didnt start with me), so eventually I got bored playing hosted-singleplayer and left |
| 17:33 |
TheReaperKing |
I didn't even have to scroll to find it |
| 17:34 |
resident |
tamyang |
| 17:34 |
segfault22 |
I didn't say I am bad, I said people are saying that I am bad. Its okay if english isn't your native language but wow |
| 17:34 |
resident |
get moneh |
| 17:34 |
resident |
chinee |
| 17:34 |
resident |
tamyang |
| 17:34 |
TheReaperKing |
As I said, you are the only one that said you are bad |
| 17:34 |
Nosrick |
Megaf: what're your thoughts so far? |
| 17:34 |
TheReaperKing |
and trying to take out your venting on me isn't going to work out well for you |
| 17:34 |
segfault22 |
I didn't say I am bad, I said people are saying that I am bad. There is a difference |
| 17:34 |
TheReaperKing |
but no one is, only you |
| 17:35 |
segfault22 |
... |
| 17:35 |
segfault22 |
really? |
| 17:35 |
TheReaperKing |
you are the only one judging yourself from what I've seen |
| 17:36 |
TheReaperKing |
I would say griefing was a bad decision but doesn't necessarily make you a bad person |
| 17:36 |
TheReaperKing |
especially if you learn from it |
| 17:36 |
twoelk |
why starting a fight on wether something was said or not, when it's rather unimportand |
| 17:36 |
Megaf |
Nosrick: I like the code so far. And about the thing itself, I'm not sure, I don't really understand this master of magic thing, do you have any screenshot? |
| 17:36 |
Megaf |
or forum topic? |
| 17:36 |
Nosrick |
No, nothing yet. |
| 17:36 |
Megaf |
agaran: heh, I use very descriptive commits messages as you can see xP |
| 17:36 |
TheReaperKing |
ooo master of magic |
| 17:37 |
Nosrick |
I'm keeping it under wraps until I at least get something decent. |
| 17:37 |
TheReaperKing |
sounds interesting |
| 17:37 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: it does |
| 17:37 |
TheReaperKing |
I think magic in MT would be awesome |
| 17:37 |
TheReaperKing |
there is some but not a lot |
| 17:37 |
Nosrick |
I'm hoping to implement a lot of fun stuff. |
| 17:37 |
segfault22 |
Well none of it really matters now that the server died out on its own, like many others that have come and gone since. |
| 17:37 |
TheReaperKing |
also it hides some of the latency issues with fighting the AI with melee |
| 17:37 |
segfault22 |
this was like back when minetest was 0.4.3 |
| 17:37 |
agaran |
Megaf: yep |
| 17:37 |
TheReaperKing |
that's what I learned in adventuretest |
| 17:38 |
TheReaperKing |
which is why I recommended he starts the player with the magic missile wand |
| 17:38 |
Nosrick |
In phase two of the mod, I'm going to be implementing cities! |
| 17:38 |
TheReaperKing |
You know what I need to learn is terrain modifying "spells" |
| 17:38 |
segfault22 |
I had fun on other servers for a long time, building towns with people living in them and stuff, but I eventually got bored because of the lack of variation in stone and ores, and a good tool system |
| 17:39 |
TheReaperKing |
segfault22: I hope you find peace with all of that and also find a new fun server or activity in general to do |
| 17:39 |
Nosrick |
I'm hoping to write some fun terraforming spells, TheReaperKing |
| 17:39 |
TheReaperKing |
I teach using MT in schools and I think the kids would go nuts being able to create using "spells" |
| 17:39 |
segfault22 |
I stopped playing on servers and decided to work on mods, and someday start my own server where I will showcase said mods which I believe will be revolutionary |
| 17:40 |
TheReaperKing |
segfault22: please let me know when you do |
| 17:40 |
TheReaperKing |
I would love to join |
| 17:40 |
segfault22 |
well thank you, I'm glad |
| 17:40 |
TheReaperKing |
I love seeing people's creativiyt |
| 17:40 |
TheReaperKing |
creativity |
| 17:40 |
twoelk |
yeah, kids love legal ways of cheating disguised as magic ;-) |
| 17:40 |
Nosrick |
What mods are you working on, segfault22? |
| 17:40 |
segfault22 |
I want it to be like the servers I had fun at, like Redcrab's and a few others, before they went away... |
| 17:41 |
TheReaperKing |
my kids are 6th-8th and I've won many awards for my game work, but they routinely kick my ass in creativity, I love it |
| 17:41 |
|
GunshipPenguin joined #minetest |
| 17:41 |
segfault22 |
I'm making a resource system mod, where materials are registered and given definite properties like strength/density and a name/id, from that any item/node/tool is created with a single line of code and having its properties based on the material it is made of |
| 17:41 |
twoelk |
yeah working with kids keeps your mind alert |
| 17:41 |
Megaf |
!seen LazyJ |
| 17:41 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: lazyj was last seen at 2016-08-26 02:43:34 UTC on #minetest |
| 17:41 |
Megaf |
!seen Darkside |
| 17:41 |
TheReaperKing |
My favorite is they designed this pool with a subbasment and they actually pump water from the subbasement to the pool |
| 17:41 |
Megaf |
!seen Darkside |
| 17:41 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Sorry, I haven't seen darkside around. |
| 17:42 |
Megaf |
!seen Darkside_ |
| 17:42 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: darkside_ was last seen at 2016-08-26 19:06:27 UTC on #minetest |
| 17:42 |
TheReaperKing |
er subbasement |
| 17:42 |
TheReaperKing |
apparently I can't spell today |
| 17:42 |
Megaf |
!time |
| 17:42 |
segfault22 |
also, I'm thinking about making a power-system mod that uses a system I haven't seen implemented anywhere, but I haven't started yet |
| 17:42 |
TheReaperKing |
segfault22: these ideas sound very interesting |
| 17:42 |
Megaf |
segfault22: define power-system |
| 17:43 |
segfault22 |
it will have some features like the thermal expansion mod for minecraft, like the cool looking conduits and storage "cells", but a lot of the rest will be very different |
| 17:43 |
TheReaperKing |
my recommendation with any type of project is start small and build on it |
| 17:43 |
segfault22 |
that's what I plan to do :D |
| 17:43 |
* twoelk |
is reminded to work more on his roman map |
| 17:43 |
TheReaperKing |
a lot of people have all these grandiose ideas and then never get anywhere because they realize how hard it is |
| 17:44 |
TheReaperKing |
and twoelk awesome, sounds like a map we should play in class :) |
| 17:44 |
TheReaperKing |
last week we toured the NYC map |
| 17:44 |
segfault22 |
my resources-system mod started out as some dumb moreores clone, but then I started discovering ways to easily register new tools/items/nodes, first with a clunky ipairs machine and finally with an elegant function-system |
| 17:44 |
TheReaperKing |
sounds awesome |
| 17:44 |
segfault22 |
now it doesn't have anything registered by default, and is entirely configurable to add whatever you want with a single line instead of a whole minetest.register_*() block |
| 17:44 |
TheReaperKing |
You need to take that energy you had venting and apply it to this |
| 17:44 |
Megaf |
segfault22: you should contribute/start the code for my electrical engineering for Minetest |
| 17:44 |
TheReaperKing |
and you will have something incredible |
| 17:45 |
agaran |
twoelk: roman map? |
| 17:45 |
twoelk |
yeah, wish I knew what I want so I could ask others to code it as I simply suck at larger coding projects |
| 17:45 |
TheReaperKing |
I'm just learning myself |
| 17:46 |
TheReaperKing |
if I can get any code to work I'm happy haha |
| 17:46 |
twoelk |
agaran: a project I started a year ago swith schools in mind |
| 17:46 |
segfault22 |
Megaf: I will probably do that because the system I have in mind will be very effective - it doesn't have to check every conductor node whenever power is being sent, and it updates every time a conductor is changed or producers/consumers added, and the power transfers very quickly (it uses a globalstep instead of an abm) |
| 17:47 |
TheReaperKing |
segfault22: You will have to keep me apprised of your work, this is all stuff that is super interesting to me and that my kids would definitely be using |
| 17:48 |
segfault22 |
well thank you for having interest in it; I plan to get it working as soon as possible, more so now that I know people want it :D |
| 17:48 |
TheReaperKing |
I can give you direct feedback of what they think too |
| 17:48 |
agaran |
twoelk: but goal was? |
| 17:48 |
TheReaperKing |
which reminds me one thing I need to do is figure out how to do moving blocks |
| 17:48 |
TheReaperKing |
like blocks that go back and forth, for our obstacle courses |
| 17:48 |
segfault22 |
before it was just my own hobby to work on occasionally to pass time, but now I see that it can be so much more than that |
| 17:48 |
twoelk |
when I think about it maybe I should rename my project as it now includes greek and oriental building styles of the roman age - or thereabouts |
| 17:48 |
TheReaperKing |
heck yeah |
| 17:49 |
TheReaperKing |
my middle schoolers are already starting on cities that have electrical and pipe systems |
| 17:49 |
segfault22 |
you may want to take a look at the mesecons movestone; the code behind it could be put in something else to make it work how you need it |
| 17:49 |
TheReaperKing |
and I am making them deal with waste management |
| 17:49 |
segfault22 |
cool |
| 17:49 |
segfault22 |
that is so awesome |
| 17:49 |
TheReaperKing |
so what you are saying is right on par with our interests |
| 17:50 |
Megaf |
segfault22: https://github.com/Megaf/Electrical-Engineering-For-Minetest |
| 17:50 |
Megaf |
check the issues |
| 17:50 |
agaran |
twoelk: that sounds nice... |
| 17:50 |
TheReaperKing |
I was trying to get the luacontroller to work but so far only have been able to print to the console |
| 17:50 |
TheReaperKing |
though I only tried the clock |
| 17:50 |
twoelk |
agaran: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=12680 that started it, scroll down for how it grew |
| 17:50 |
agaran |
well on Megaf's servers there is lot of mese stuff wroking |
| 17:51 |
TheReaperKing |
this is awesome Megaf, cloning |
| 17:51 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: there's no code at all yet |
| 17:51 |
resident |
cloned |
| 17:51 |
Megaf |
ok |
| 17:51 |
TheReaperKing |
at least I can keep up to date though |
| 17:51 |
Megaf |
no put some code and PR |
| 17:51 |
Megaf |
xP |
| 17:51 |
Megaf |
s/no/now |
| 17:51 |
TheReaperKing |
I have it setup in linux that I hit umg and it updates all my MT gits |
| 17:51 |
TheReaperKing |
and then pops up a log for what was changed |
| 17:52 |
segfault22 |
thank you for the feedback; I will get to work and see what I can come up with. Although that power system mod I want to make only uses a single-conductor (resonance) I believe it can work with the electricity-style implementation as well |
| 17:53 |
TheReaperKing |
twoelk: that map looks fantastic |
| 17:53 |
segfault22 |
the power transfer concept is applicable even to 3-phase AC |
| 17:53 |
TheReaperKing |
yeah segfault22 maybe you and Megaf could work together |
| 17:53 |
TheReaperKing |
sounds like you have similar ideas |
| 17:54 |
twoelk |
TheReaperKing: mostly just well chosen foto points |
| 17:55 |
TheReaperKing |
twoelk: would it be possible to put it on github so I can subscribe to your changes? |
| 17:55 |
Megaf |
there was another guy making almost the same thing |
| 17:55 |
Megaf |
wasnt it you agaran ? |
| 17:55 |
resident |
don't you have to be a contributor to change anything |
| 17:55 |
agaran |
Megaf: not 'same' different goal a bit... |
| 17:55 |
Megaf |
resident: you can always fork, change and then make a pull request |
| 17:55 |
TheReaperKing |
btw quick question, are any of you linux users? |
| 17:56 |
resident |
ye |
| 17:56 |
segfault22 |
I use linux :D |
| 17:56 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: most of ys |
| 17:56 |
Megaf |
us* |
| 17:56 |
Megaf |
Debian 7 here |
| 17:56 |
resident |
arch |
| 17:56 |
segfault22 |
linux OSes are my favorite because I like to customize everything |
| 17:56 |
TheReaperKing |
with the command line, how do I properly commit and push |
| 17:56 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: flickr.com/eumegaf you can see my desktops there |
| 17:56 |
Megaf |
or flickt.com/megaf |
| 17:56 |
Megaf |
something like that |
| 17:56 |
resident |
git commit and then git push |
| 17:57 |
TheReaperKing |
I have just started learning Linux again, after not having used it for about 10 years |
| 17:57 |
Megaf |
resident: to make pull request to the repo you cloned from I only know how to do from teh web interface |
| 17:57 |
TheReaperKing |
Also as of last week I got permission to put it on the computer lab computers |
| 17:57 |
segfault22 |
That's awesome! |
| 17:57 |
basxto |
TheReaperKing: git help |
| 17:57 |
TheReaperKing |
okay thanks |
| 17:57 |
Megaf |
resident: to update in you repo things you changed locally you can do a git commit -a -m "message of changes" and git push |
| 17:57 |
TheReaperKing |
I know I can find the commands, but I don't want to screw it up |
| 17:57 |
TheReaperKing |
though I guess that's how I learn |
| 17:58 |
TheReaperKing |
do you all use any guis that you like? |
| 17:58 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: find a text editor you like |
| 17:58 |
TheReaperKing |
I have used git cola but I only consider it okay |
| 17:58 |
twoelk |
I can host it for public access again sometime next week when I'm at home again. At the moment it's in a state of rearangement to a different street grid system to intigrate some other reconstructions I made on other maps |
| 17:58 |
segfault22 |
If more people start having Linux available in places like school, it will spread knowledge of the system and especially the fact that it is free software, which everyone wants |
| 17:58 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: I like nano because is simple |
| 17:58 |
Megaf |
and easy |
| 17:58 |
TheReaperKing |
I have tried geeny and notepadqq |
| 17:58 |
TheReaperKing |
does nano have tabs? |
| 17:58 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: and I like GNOME 3 for a straight forward desktop experience. Where you use it like windows, without thinking much |
| 17:59 |
TheReaperKing |
or is nano for git |
| 17:59 |
Megaf |
LXDE/XFCE/Mate for low resources use |
| 17:59 |
TheReaperKing |
we'll be using Lubuntu |
| 17:59 |
segfault22 |
nobody likes to pay for windows, even "rich people" who can "throw money" at whatever... |
| 17:59 |
Megaf |
TheReaperKing: nano is for console |
| 17:59 |
TheReaperKing |
they are very old crappy laptops |
| 17:59 |
segfault22 |
I use GEdit because it can highlight my Lua syntax :D |
| 17:59 |
TheReaperKing |
most are Dell 2120s |
| 18:00 |
segfault22 |
if your systems are low-power, you may be interested in editions of linux OSes like NanoLinux |
| 18:00 |
TheReaperKing |
the school refuses to buy new computers |
| 18:00 |
TheReaperKing |
which annoys me because I can get really good ones for $25 |
| 18:00 |
basxto |
TheReaperKing: tmux |
| 18:00 |
basxto |
ehrm tmux+nano is tab-like |
| 18:00 |
TheReaperKing |
dual core 3 ghz 4-8 gigs of ram with a monitor for $25 each |
| 18:01 |
TheReaperKing |
but nope |
| 18:01 |
segfault22 |
I have tried running LUbuntu on some dell laptops I have, but it feels just about as slow as Linux Mint (what it had before) so I moved back to it |
| 18:02 |
TheReaperKing |
and thank you for these application suggestions |
| 18:02 |
segfault22 |
you're welcome :D |
| 18:02 |
TheReaperKing |
Lubuntu is what I installed on this PC for learning purposes so probably what we'd stick with |
| 18:02 |
basxto |
TheReaperKing: netbeans and eclipse integrated git, I think, there is also “git gui†|
| 18:03 |
segfault22 |
I'm glad that you're spreading Linux free-software to the world; it has been pretty much devoid of this for too long |
| 18:03 |
TheReaperKing |
I love using the command line for cloning and pulling but for commiting I think command line is scary haha |
| 18:03 |
TheReaperKing |
It's crazy the kids are actually excited about it |
| 18:03 |
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| 18:03 |
TheReaperKing |
I already put it on two of the comps before I got permission and the kids are amazed by the speed |
| 18:03 |
TheReaperKing |
and also the server machine originally had vista |
| 18:04 |
resident |
you teach your kids about github? |
| 18:04 |
TheReaperKing |
and I put xubuntu on it and they've really noticed the difference |
| 18:04 |
basxto |
it’s not pretty scary, git is very talkactive |
| 18:04 |
basxto |
it also comes with an „did you mean … ?“ feature |
| 18:04 |
segfault22 |
eclipse is a must-have for writing code in Lua and C++, both which Minetest is made of. I use it for making my mods |
| 18:04 |
TheReaperKing |
and I've been sure to relay that on vista we were hitting 100% CPU quite often |
| 18:04 |
segfault22 |
Vista is horrible |
| 18:04 |
TheReaperKing |
but on xubuntu I can run two servers, one being the NYC map, and even jump on as a client on the same PC and it still doesn't hit 100% |
| 18:05 |
segfault22 |
that's awesome |
| 18:05 |
TheReaperKing |
resident: I haven't taught them about github yet |
| 18:05 |
TheReaperKing |
there are all sorts of privacy issues with them being kids |
| 18:05 |
segfault22 |
I'm glad you're bringing this to more people |
| 18:05 |
basxto |
TheReaperKing: you don’t need to, you can use git without github |
| 18:05 |
TheReaperKing |
so we might do a private gitlabs repo |
| 18:05 |
basxto |
you can pull from other computers via ssh |
| 18:06 |
TheReaperKing |
I need to learn ssh to modify their comps too remotely |
| 18:06 |
TheReaperKing |
aka I'd love to have all the comps update at once and such |
| 18:06 |
basxto |
there is nothing to learn just “ssh hostname†and you are logged in into your usual shell |
| 18:06 |
TheReaperKing |
how do login to their computers? |
| 18:08 |
basxto |
you have to run 1) sshd (daemon = server) on their computer 2) type “ssh user ipaddress†on your side … enter the password or use a key (you have to do some setup stuff for the latter) |
| 18:08 |
|
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| 18:09 |
basxto |
and you are in |
| 18:09 |
TheReaperKing |
wow that's awesome |
| 18:09 |
|
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| 18:10 |
basxto |
you can also define hosts at ~/.ssh/config |
| 18:10 |
|
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| 18:10 |
basxto |
then you just type “ssh computer1†and ip address, username and port is defined in config |
| 18:11 |
TheReaperKing |
that's so cool |
| 18:11 |
TheReaperKing |
if any of them cause problems "shutdown -h now" haha |
| 18:12 |
basxto |
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/Keys explaines how to set up your keys |
| 18:12 |
basxto |
or just cut the internet ;) |
| 18:13 |
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| 18:13 |
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| 18:14 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: Good evening |
| 18:15 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, I measured now the CPU% of the Server thread over time (syntax is script run time in secs, %CPU, %MEM, TIME+, Thread name) ... I only grep for 30+% usage http://pastebin.com/Vqd4JaKk |
| 18:15 |
basxto |
TheReaperKing: http://www.tuxradar.com/answers/131 with that you could block their internet … or write a script that reactivates it after 10min or something |
| 18:15 |
IhrFussel |
Good evening =) |
| 18:16 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: so it is something inside Server thread.. |
| 18:18 |
TheReaperKing |
Thanks for all this great info, I'm going to save it to a document |
| 18:19 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, yep and it's VERY inconsistent too...sometimes it spikes 2 x within 100 seconds, other times it's low for much longer |
| 18:19 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: Indeed, like some irregularly happening tasks caused by player actions not periodic events |
| 18:20 |
IhrFussel |
I'll grep for 20+% maybe that one is more consistent |
| 18:22 |
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| 18:22 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, same syntax http://pastebin.com/UYaz3igX |
| 18:23 |
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| 18:29 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: less gaps, often 200/400 s spaced peaks but still does not look like predictable |
| 18:29 |
agaran |
so nobody knows/heard about pos_to_hexstring or like in minetest? |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:34 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, yup...at line 31 the server crashed (but that was cause of a stupid action by one of my moderators) |
| 18:36 |
IhrFussel |
So it's very likely some content trigger in the world and when a player loads it the server lags? |
| 18:38 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: Hmm, yes, but it may be not bad idea to find way to dig deeper and find what actually itis |
| 18:39 |
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| 18:40 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, for that I'd need to find a way to save the actual server time with each line instead of the script seconds... my code is this "top -b -d 1 -H | grep --line-buffered -Eo "[0-9]{1,},[0-9]{1,}.{1,}Server" > cpu.txt" |
| 18:42 |
IhrFussel |
I then could compare the high spikes with log times of debug.txt |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:42 |
agaran |
I would consider making mod that periodically sends some fixed string to log, to which logging system reacts and makes top/grep combo.. |
| 18:45 |
Megaf |
I just applied for jobs at Google and Dropbox, wish me luck |
| 18:46 |
* Calinou |
wishes luck to Megaf |
| 18:46 |
Megaf |
I would apply for twitter if they could keep their links working https://careers.twitter.com/en/work-for-twitter/it-support-engineer-i-dublin-6-month-contract-dublin.html |
| 18:46 |
agaran |
Megaf: best luck :) |
| 18:47 |
Megaf |
All I want is a job with Linux in Dublin in a company that will sponsor me for a work permit |
| 18:47 |
Megaf |
Am I asking too much? |
| 18:48 |
agaran |
dunno.. |
| 18:48 |
Megaf |
I'd ask my ex back, but that I know is too much indeed |
| 18:53 |
segfault22 |
Oh thats too bad, Linux Mint has that nasty SystemD program in it. Time to dump it for good! |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
ask your systemd back |
| 18:56 |
segfault22 |
? |
| 18:57 |
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| 18:58 |
segfault22 |
http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd |
| 19:00 |
segfault22 |
I was just going to revert to upstart-sysv but they removed the package (!!!) |
| 19:00 |
segfault22 |
I am convinced it is a backdoor system, or at least spyware |
| 19:02 |
paramat |
heat and humidity are 2D noises. biomes are mainly 2D. however, for each value of y biome at point is decided by a heat/humidity voronoi diagram containing biome points, which biomes points are included in the voronoi diagram depends on the biome min/max y limits. so yes somewhat 3D in a clever way that reduces complexity < APNG |
| 19:02 |
segfault22 |
awesome :D |
| 19:04 |
segfault22 |
oh and APNG wants more "furries" in minetest - we can NOT let this happen. If it does, consider minetest dead because it with both 1. ruin our public image with them and their "yiffing" crap, roleplay crap and comic-pr0n, and 2. drive away everyone who understands how disgusting they are |
| 19:04 |
paramat |
so it's possible to define a different set of biomes for each stacked realm |
| 19:04 |
segfault22 |
Awesome! |
| 19:05 |
APNG |
segfault22, you're a stupid useless rude piece of excrement |
| 19:05 |
segfault22 |
Thank you for providing this insight. I always wanted D biomes in minecraft but learned it isn't possible |
| 19:05 |
segfault22 |
APNG get lost |
| 19:05 |
segfault22 |
I just /ignore |
| 19:05 |
APNG |
we need more furries |
| 19:05 |
APNG |
or rather |
| 19:06 |
APNG |
life sized plushies |
| 19:06 |
sfan5 |
we need more people who shut up |
| 19:06 |
agaran |
sfan5: you don't know anything that can take pos vector and spit nice hex string? |
| 19:07 |
segfault22 |
If I EVER see that "furries" crap on the minetest forum, I will fork the latest version, make a separate project and make sure that it isn't allowed there, so that people who don't want to be part of that crap can have a place to seek refuge and live and commerce like they did before |
| 19:07 |
APNG |
hmm |
| 19:07 |
APNG |
correction |
| 19:07 |
sfan5 |
agaran: why would you want to do that |
| 19:07 |
APNG |
we need to add otherkin to minetest |
| 19:07 |
segfault22 |
and trust me, there will be just about everyone to move there, if we let this happen. So don't. |
| 19:07 |
APNG |
or, custom, player-defined player models |
| 19:07 |
APNG |
and unlockable capabilities |
| 19:07 |
APNG |
(e.g. items you find in dungeons that let you fly and stuff) |
| 19:08 |
agaran |
sfan5: more compact, and then such string can be key in array, then I can do if not things["DEADBEEF"] then to check if given position was defined in things table.. also likely more mem efficient than storing pos vectors.. |
| 19:08 |
sfan5 |
i just do pos.x .. "_" .. pos.y .. "_" .. pos.z if i need that |
| 19:09 |
agaran |
well I wanted it hex.. maybe I am odd |
| 19:09 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, I accomplished the task via running tail -F file | while read line; do echo "$(date +%T) $line" >> 2ndfile.txt; done |
| 19:10 |
segfault22 |
hex is nice |
| 19:10 |
segfault22 |
who thinks SystemD is a malware? |
| 19:10 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: pastebin ? (priv if you wish) |
| 19:10 |
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| 19:11 |
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| 19:11 |
segfault22 |
oh and, why can;t we find Upstart in the package managers any more? I wanted to remove SystemD but I can't without installing Upstart |
| 19:11 |
segfault22 |
does anyone know what should be done? |
| 19:12 |
IhrFussel |
Oh it needs to run again for a few hours before I can compare the spikes with debug.txt file times |
| 19:12 |
segfault22 |
sfan5 thank you for making that file hosting service; I noticed a few people are still using it for some mods I made that I don't work on any more |
| 19:13 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: sure, just drop me info if you get more data.. |
| 19:14 |
APNG |
<APNG> can we get player-defined player models? |
| 19:14 |
APNG |
<APNG> and unlockable flight/etc capabilities, through dungeon items? |
| 19:14 |
APNG |
<APNG> mostly because that'd be furry-friendly |
| 19:14 |
APNG |
<APNG> and furries are one of the most welcoming communities, so we wouldn't have so many assholes in our community |
| 19:14 |
APNG |
accidentally sent that to the wrong channel >.< |
| 19:14 |
twoelk |
LOL segfault22, again I totally disagree, I may be no fan of furries but I think minetest should make everything possible, be it furries, spacesuits or ninnja knights riding on crimson carpets. The more diversity the better |
| 19:15 |
sfan5 |
segfault22: which one? |
| 19:15 |
segfault22 |
twoelek, no offense but do you even know what the furries are up to? Sure we need diversity and diversity is good, but not this kind |
| 19:15 |
Jordach |
APNG, i've had player defined models in BFD for a while now |
| 19:15 |
segfault22 |
sfan5, I'm not sure |
| 19:16 |
Jordach |
segfault22, you mean |
| 19:16 |
Jordach |
http://sfan5.duckdns.org/upload/ |
| 19:16 |
sfan5 |
no that is no longer active |
| 19:16 |
segfault22 |
yes, that one |
| 19:16 |
segfault22 |
the files are still there though |
| 19:16 |
segfault22 |
I used it a long time ago, and even though it isnt open for new uploads any more - thank you for making it, it was needed a while back and it served well |
| 19:17 |
APNG |
segfault22, furries are up to welcoming everyone regardless of fetish, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, gender expression, species identity, neurotype, race, religion, <insert other bullshit terms made up by cis white neurotypical christian male humans> |
| 19:17 |
segfault22 |
I us github now though |
| 19:17 |
APNG |
uh, right, forgot the "vanilla" label |
| 19:17 |
APNG |
segfault22, in other words furries are much nicer than you |
| 19:17 |
* twoelk |
once played on a server taken over by some vampire roleplaying clan |
| 19:18 |
Megaf |
Jordach: what cars mod is that? |
| 19:18 |
twoelk |
they had interesting building ideas |
| 19:18 |
segfault22 |
would you happen to have a copy of 0gb_us land claim mod (original) somewhere? its not at that upload service, and the site for 0gb.us is gone forever and with it the links to all the files :/ |
| 19:18 |
Megaf |
Jordach: sfan5: this mod http://sfan5.duckdns.org/upload/data/screenshot_5593146.png |
| 19:20 |
Megaf |
nevermind |
| 19:21 |
IhrFussel |
I think not allowing a certain user group is discrimination...either you allow EVERYONE or no one IMO |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:22 |
IhrFussel |
As long as the player follows my server rules i really DONT care about their race, age, location or interests...and it shouldn't be my business |
| 19:22 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: you will end up with nazi server with this attitude ^%) |
| 19:23 |
Fixer |
i care about age, because... if players can't even type /y to kick a spammer, ... fuck them, get off my lawn |
| 19:24 |
IhrFussel |
Fixer, I see you are not a very tolerant person |
| 19:24 |
segfault22 |
There are a lot of things "furries" do that would break many server rules; internet-dating and roleplay-based internet "dating" so-t-speak are integrated as a fundamental part of their ideology, and dating is banned on most servers that I know of... |
| 19:24 |
Fixer |
i'm very intolerant to people who can't even play the damn game %) |
| 19:25 |
Calinou |
<APNG> <APNG> can we get player-defined player models? |
| 19:25 |
Calinou |
yes |
| 19:25 |
Calinou |
there was a My Little Pony-themed server once |
| 19:25 |
IhrFussel |
Dating is NOT banned on my server and I personally think any server that bans such things is dictating players what to do |
| 19:25 |
Calinou |
players could choose their skin, which had an impact on their pony type, and thus physics |
| 19:25 |
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| 19:26 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: that depends on admins, if you are fine with, i'm ok with that |
| 19:26 |
segfault22 |
Also, the pr0n is probably not allowed on your server or most that I know of. And they tend to act violently to others who don't support their beliefs or play into their games. So long as that is not allowed, they are kept from expressing their beliefs and that can be called "discrimination" of a type, but it is necessary |
| 19:26 |
APNG |
asexual furries exist, useless dumbfuck |
| 19:27 |
Fixer |
Calinou: and I'm close to finish some blocks for CC-SA-BY MLP texture pack converted from minecraft |
| 19:27 |
Calinou |
can you, like, keep it SFW or something |
| 19:27 |
Fixer |
but this damn procrastination |
| 19:27 |
Calinou |
and not insult eachother :P |
| 19:27 |
APNG |
Calinou, they have me on /ignore, the insults are useless |
| 19:28 |
APNG |
idk why I'm even trying tbh .-. |
| 19:28 |
Fixer |
i associate furries with two things... 1) firefox 2) xxxn |
| 19:28 |
IhrFussel |
IMO the server admin shouldn't tell players what to do in any way outside of "follow the server rules" ... and if the admin feels like he/she needs to add a "no dating rule/age restriction" then I would never play on such a server |
| 19:29 |
segfault22 |
I want minetest to be SFW. |
| 19:29 |
Calinou |
you can't legally force it to, segfault22 :P |
| 19:29 |
Fixer |
IhrFussel: it is just some people are annoyed by constant "mod", "dad", "slave", "gimemememe wooooood", gamemode 1, "how to play" |
| 19:29 |
segfault22 |
safe-for-work, safe-for-family, et cetera |
| 19:29 |
Fixer |
"mom" |
| 19:29 |
Calinou |
haha "gamemode 1" |
| 19:29 |
Fixer |
gamemode 1 is my favourite |
| 19:29 |
segfault22 |
we can;t force it, of course, but the forums are not uncensored because there's children who come there regulaarly. |
| 19:30 |
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| 19:30 |
IhrFussel |
Fixer, yeah maybe it is annoying to some...but I think it's pretty WEIRD to read PM logs and ban players for things they sent privately to each other for example (like cybers**) |
| 19:30 |
Fixer |
also with those chinese players we need to consider some server rules in chinese for real |
| 19:30 |
paramat |
APNG see MirceaKitsunes 'creatures' mod in the forum, that's somewhat furry |
| 19:30 |
segfault22 |
As long as we keep the "nasty part" off the main website, off the forum and out of the main chat channels, it will be fine. That's all |
| 19:30 |
Fixer |
btw |
| 19:31 |
APNG |
I associate furries with breakfast |
| 19:31 |
paramat |
players able to change form etc |
| 19:31 |
Fixer |
i love those talks about suicide, and I get pregnant in 16, have two kids now // NOT JOKING, that was real conversations I seen |
| 19:31 |
Fixer |
there are some epic trolls |
| 19:32 |
APNG |
can we get end-to-end encrypted PMs? |
| 19:32 |
agaran |
minetest would benefit a lot from more complex chat permitting to /ignore some people.. |
| 19:32 |
segfault22 |
don't get me wrong, I don't think we should discriminate against beliefs, unless those beliefs require spreading "the nasty part" to the forum, chat, and main website. You know what "the nasty part" is |
| 19:32 |
agaran |
APNG: that would be awesome too |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
APNG: any nicely-licensed, lightweight libraries for that? I doubt it |
| 19:32 |
APNG |
Calinou, OTR |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
lol |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
no |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
something simple to use |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
and easy to integrate in existing software |
| 19:32 |
APNG |
Calinou, DCC |
| 19:32 |
Calinou |
lol, no, again |
| 19:33 |
Fixer |
too bad they don't come in -dev and yell "FIX UPDATELIGHTNING OR I WILL JUMP OF THIS ROOF NOW" |
| 19:33 |
Calinou |
anyway, this won't be implemented by Minetest devs |
| 19:33 |
segfault22 |
and, for example, people who believe they must force their beliefs on others or kill them (minetest equivalent: DDoS/hack server, takedown, trace IP and hit physical location, etc.) - we wouldn't allow people to condone this on the forums, right? |
| 19:33 |
APNG |
Calinou, it needs client support |
| 19:33 |
Calinou |
and may not even be accepted in Minetest if someone contributes it - it's a game |
| 19:33 |
APNG |
<Fixer> i love those talks about suicide, and I get pregnant in 16, have two kids now // NOT JOKING, that was real conversations I seen |
| 19:33 |
APNG |
this ^ is why we need E2E |
| 19:34 |
IhrFussel |
I'm THANKFUL that the German laws forbids admins to read PMs if there is no particular "danger to the service" |
| 19:34 |
|
agrecascino joined #minetest |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
people should recognize that Minetest doesn't offer private messaging but rather direct messaging |
| 19:34 |
Calinou |
(like Twitter) |
| 19:34 |
paramat |
APNG https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9240 has fox player models etc |
| 19:34 |
Fixer |
no, that was public chat, not pm %) |
| 19:34 |
segfault22 |
I didn't know about that German law, it's very useful actually |
| 19:34 |
Fixer |
oh wait |
| 19:34 |
Fixer |
I received "do you want to see my boobs" or smth not long ago in pm |
| 19:34 |
Fixer |
from random person |
| 19:35 |
segfault22 |
You woudn't want this going on at the minetest forums or in peoples' servers where the owner clearly states this is not allowed, right? |
| 19:35 |
IhrFussel |
Yes the German law sees PMs as "digital letters" so the same law applies as for opening/reading letters of strangers without permission |
| 19:35 |
segfault22 |
Awesome |
| 19:36 |
segfault22 |
I am considering making an encrypted PM system just to complicate the ability of owners to look at their players' personal messages |
| 19:36 |
Calinou |
implementing your own crypto is risky |
| 19:36 |
segfault22 |
like all anonymity/privacy software, there will be abusers, but the benefits are far worth more than preventing the drawbacks by not making it |
| 19:37 |
segfault22 |
okay it won't be my own cryptography algorithm, it will be a good one thats widely used, upped to like 4096-bits |
| 19:37 |
segfault22 |
or even 65536 |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
what about speed? remember, you're doing it in Lua (presumably) |
| 19:37 |
Fixer |
public chat should be readable |
| 19:37 |
segfault22 |
crap, thats right... |
| 19:37 |
APNG |
german law is stupid about nonpublic messaging |
| 19:37 |
APNG |
I mean that nonpublic != private |
| 19:37 |
segfault22 |
12-bit AES? |
| 19:37 |
Calinou |
AES-128/256 could be ok |
| 19:38 |
segfault22 |
okay, thank you for the pointer |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
wtf, another "gamemode 1" |
| 19:38 |
IhrFussel |
APNG, the German laws sees "PM (Private Message)" as something private and not non-public |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
oh wait |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
"gamemode 0" now |
| 19:38 |
agaran |
you need to take into account that some countries forbid to use crypto.. |
| 19:38 |
ki`zune |
use ROT26 |
| 19:38 |
Fixer |
where are they coming from? |
| 19:38 |
Calinou |
agaran: yes, you need to put a disclaimer when distributing your mod |
| 19:38 |
agaran |
ki`zune: lol |
| 19:38 |
segfault22 |
as long as its encrypted, it doesnt matter if it can be cracked easily with h4xx0r-w4r3 off the darknet - it's illegal in Germany for the server owner/admins to read it |
| 19:38 |
agaran |
Calinou: I know.. |
| 19:39 |
segfault22 |
some countries forbid cryptography? Then they also forbid online banking and are probably too third-world to have a reliable internet, so we need not worry about them. We can put a disclaimer "don't use this if encryption is banned in your country" or something |
| 19:40 |
ki`zune |
segfault22: it’s also not allowed to use h4xx0r-w4r3 |
| 19:40 |
|
Fixer joined #minetest |
| 19:40 |
|
paramat left #minetest |
| 19:40 |
APNG |
IhrFussel, so german law bans IRC because literally all IRC messages are PRIVMSGs |
| 19:40 |
APNG |
cool |
| 19:40 |
APNG |
go sue freenode |
| 19:40 |
segfault22 |
right, but some people will do it anyways to try to look at encrypted messages and stuff, even though it is illegal. We just need to make the law apply more/better and have it illegal to try to look at it, not impossible |
| 19:41 |
segfault22 |
kali linux has some neat tools that aren't "too darknet" to be illegal and all of that "fun stuff" |
| 19:41 |
IhrFussel |
APNG, uh no? I don't think you understand the difference between "messages that the sender KNOWS will be public and visible to everyone in theory" and "messages that are directed to ONE person and should not be accessed by ANYONE ELSE" |
| 19:41 |
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fusion44 joined #minetest |
| 19:43 |
segfault22 |
It isn't necessary that we ban furries altogether everywhere, just that we keep the "nasty part" out of our important community resources. I was thinking about someday hosting a (different from the other one I'm gonna make) uncensored server where nobody cares about anything |
| 19:44 |
APNG |
IhrFussel, the command is called "private message" |
| 19:44 |
IhrFussel |
A chat room != PM ... Private Message implies that the message has exactly one sender and mostly 1 receiver...the contents of the message shall only be accessed by anyone the sender specified just like with real letters |
| 19:45 |
APNG |
IhrFussel, uh ok I know how to solve that problem |
| 19:45 |
APNG |
call it "direct dataing" |
| 19:45 |
APNG |
the data is sent directly to the specified person |
| 19:45 |
APNG |
no mention of message, only data |
| 19:45 |
Calinou |
APNG: not possible without port forwarding in most cases |
| 19:45 |
APNG |
its meaning is unspecified |
| 19:45 |
Calinou |
UDP hole punching is pretty much original research in open source at this point |
| 19:45 |
Calinou |
and UPnP is not enabled by everyone, some people don't trust it |
| 19:45 |
APNG |
Calinou, "direct dataing" has no legal issues |
| 19:46 |
Calinou |
I was talking about technical issues |
| 19:46 |
APNG |
so you can send direct data through the server |
| 19:46 |
APNG |
and it can be freely visible to the admins and stuff |
| 19:48 |
IhrFussel |
The German law says "if it's OBVIOUS that the function/command implies that the messages are private then it counts as PM and must not be accessed by the admin or other unspecified users" |
| 19:49 |
* ki`zune |
does not have UPnP enabled |
| 19:49 |
IhrFussel |
So to make that work you'd have to tell every user that the messages won't be private...and then the function will not be used anymore by most players |
| 19:50 |
ki`zune |
integrate gpg into minetest |
| 19:50 |
IhrFussel |
Cause players expect a PM function not a "send stuff to another player but let the admin access it" |
| 19:51 |
APNG |
IhrFussel, german law is half good, half stupid; I'm glad you can't sue servers that aren't based on germany |
| 19:52 |
IhrFussel |
I recently had to explain to some players that i THEORETICALLY have access to their PMs but my laws don't allow me to read them (except in extreme danger situations) |
| 19:52 |
APNG |
why not pipe server logs to the internet? |
| 19:52 |
ki`zune |
“Are you sure you want to send this? Omniscient admin can read this. kk | oh noes†|
| 19:53 |
APNG |
"everything that happens in chat gets publicly logged. everything." |
| 19:53 |
Fixer |
APNG: great idea, add to this bot based on markow chains => hilarity |
| 19:53 |
IhrFussel |
APNG, yes that wording could work, but will players use the PM function when they read that? I doubt it |
| 19:53 |
APNG |
IhrFussel, trust me they will |
| 19:54 |
ki`zune |
people are surprisingly lazy |
| 19:54 |
Calinou |
<ki`zune> integrate gpg into minetest |
| 19:55 |
Calinou |
attempted once, never tried again |
| 19:55 |
Calinou |
for good reason |
| 19:55 |
ki`zune |
:D |
| 19:55 |
APNG |
just add client mods |
| 19:55 |
APNG |
OTR will just come naturally |
| 19:55 |
Calinou |
I doubt the average Minetest player is smart enough to use it |
| 19:55 |
Calinou |
consider that 80% of Minetest's userbase is mobile client kids… |
| 19:56 |
APNG |
also I think I heard somewhere that german law doesn't let you share PMs/letters/whatever you receive |
| 19:56 |
ki`zune |
Calinou: not just the average minetest user |
| 19:56 |
Fixer |
Calinou: average Minetest player can't play minetest %) |
| 19:57 |
ki`zune |
APNG: you mean > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden. |
| 19:58 |
APNG |
ki`zune, no I mean if someone sends you an email, directed at you |
| 19:58 |
APNG |
and you make it public |
| 19:58 |
APNG |
it's illegal in germany |
| 19:58 |
Calinou |
should put that in a signature |
| 19:58 |
APNG |
even if your email signature literally states "Disclaimer: these emails may be made public at any given time, with or without reason. If you don't agree with this, DO NOT REPLY. " |
| 19:58 |
ki`zune |
“this e-mail had cybersex†|
| 20:00 |
sfan5 |
APNG: oh you've studied german law? |
| 20:00 |
APNG |
sfan5, no |
| 20:00 |
APNG |
I only heard about it |
| 20:00 |
APNG |
I'm not from germany tho so I can happily make all my emails public ^^ |
| 20:00 |
ki`zune |
APNG: de.wikipedia says no |
| 20:01 |
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segfault22 joined #minetest |
| 20:01 |
agaran |
IhrFussel: what is that white shield hud bar? |
| 20:02 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, armor |
| 20:02 |
segfault22 |
Sorry I left.. I did not intend to. Our power-supply cut out due to grid problems aggravated by a storm |
| 20:02 |
agaran |
I don't change armor and it varies on its own..? |
| 20:03 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, the armor has a durability you can see it in the armor screen of the inventory |
| 20:03 |
agaran |
ah, got it |
| 20:04 |
ki`zune |
APNG: it can be illegal, especially when it violates personality rights and copyright law (everything that qualifies for copyright, is copyrighted) |
| 20:05 |
APNG |
ki`zune, technically the disclaimer solves the copyright issues |
| 20:08 |
Calinou |
!server Calinou |
| 20:08 |
MinetestBot |
Calinou: Calinou [Europe/Paris] (survival - minimal mods) | hugo.pro:30002 | Clients: 6/32, 11/21 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 10ms |
| 20:09 |
IhrFussel |
Yep acording to German law one cannot simply say "I don't want copyright on this" and make it freely available for anyone else...the copyright holder HAS TO apply a license to each work |
| 20:10 |
Calinou |
IhrFussel: CC0 is a public domain dedication that should be valid in Germany |
| 20:10 |
|
red-001 joined #minetest |
| 20:11 |
IhrFussel |
Calinou, yes any "general accepted license" is fine, i was just stating that "I don't want to copyright my work" alone won't be enough in Germany |
| 20:11 |
|
est31 joined #minetest |
| 20:13 |
IhrFussel |
Because no one can actually lose their copyright in Germany...they can only allow others to use it but not lose the copyright of the work |
| 20:13 |
Calinou |
yes, same in France |
| 20:15 |
IhrFussel |
Same with cannibalism here (weird example xD): Even if someone WANTS to be eaten by someone else and signs a contract it's not allowed cause a person cannot lose their human rights in any way |
| 20:16 |
agaran |
that sounded as way to get people do canibalism-mod for MT.. |
| 20:20 |
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eeew` joined #minetest |
| 20:20 |
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hisforever joined #minetest |
| 20:22 |
IhrFussel |
agaran, lol |
| 20:25 |
segfault22 |
can we register our copyright with the copyright office, make them inscribe it on slabs of bacon, and send for a new copy ever day, so we can eat our copyrights instead of each-other? maybe its not as sustainable as farming plants,... |
| 20:26 |
segfault22 |
is there a copyright office equipped with a bacon-slab-maker and bacon-inscribing tool in the USA? |
| 20:27 |
red-001 |
the answer is: maybe |
| 20:28 |
segfault22 |
is it offensive to mention bacon in the minetest-chat because muslims hate the stuff, and can't even walk where a pig has been as per their religion? |
| 20:28 |
red-001 |
Idk |
| 20:29 |
red-001 |
use [off] ? |
| 20:29 |
segfault22 |
I want to make a machine that can "copy" the exact molecular and atomic form of some material to a template, and another to read said template and "print" the material from energy... so I can make as much bacon as I want, and open a copyright office that allows you to request your copyright dox inscribed in bacon if you so please |
| 20:30 |
segfault22 |
so we don't have to kill a bunch of pigs just to make one bacon-slab for a stack of bacon-paper for the dox |
| 20:30 |
red-001 |
makes a machine that would win multiple prizes |
| 20:31 |
segfault22 |
energy from the ZPE field can be used to manufacture all the matter we will ever need, even massive amounts of Iridium for our high-tech starships |
| 20:31 |
red-001 |
use's it to make bacon |
| 20:31 |
segfault22 |
xD |
| 20:34 |
segfault22 |
we could use ultrasound cymatics to guide atoms into the right shape to produce molecules throughout a (relative to the atom) massive field of space,... maybe that will become a useful part of the machine, if we can just make the energy -> matter component as well... |
| 20:35 |
segfault22 |
I found some fringe science that says matter is basically energy and you can both create and destroy it by guiding energy from the zero-point field in the right shape, or something like that... but its kinda "far-out, man" so we'll just have to see... |
| 20:35 |
red-001 |
I'm not sure if your making this up |
| 20:36 |
segfault22 |
cymatics is very real, but currently it's only used for making pretty patterns on sand-plates... it has yet to be used in manufacturing |
| 20:36 |
segfault22 |
basically its a standing wave in a container (or on a surface) |
| 20:37 |
segfault22 |
they say it can even be used to induce fusion, but that requires very high ultrasound frequencies above 40MHz and of considerable intensity (not ultrasonic imaging, more like industrial chemical reactor cleaner transducer levels) |
| 20:38 |
segfault22 |
that way we could make any heavier, rarer and expensive atoms from hydrogen or even nitrogen and other abundant elements, but it would use a whopping load of power |
| 20:38 |
Megaf |
!server Megaf |
| 20:38 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/20, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 8ms |
| 20:38 |
|
T4im joined #minetest |
| 20:39 |
segfault22 |
:/ |
| 20:39 |
Ronsor |
DANK MEMES |
| 20:40 |
Ronsor |
Megaf: did you fork minetest? |
| 20:40 |
Megaf |
Ronsor: yup |
| 20:40 |
Megaf |
!server MineDigger |
| 20:40 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf: MineDiggerTestServer | mt.megaf.info | Clients: 0/50, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14 / MineDigger | Ping: 6ms |
| 20:41 |
Megaf |
Ronsor: there ^ |
| 20:42 |
red-001 |
what did you change in your fork? |
| 20:42 |
* ki`zune |
reads red-001’s lines and wants to die |
| 20:42 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest |
| 20:42 |
red-001 |
? |
| 20:42 |
Ronsor |
Megaf: ^ |
| 20:43 |
ki`zune |
„use's“ |
| 20:43 |
ki`zune |
I mean “use's†|
| 20:43 |
red-001 |
I see |
| 20:43 |
red-001 |
where can I find this typo? |
| 20:44 |
ki`zune |
<red-001> use's it to make bacon |
| 20:45 |
ki`zune |
maybe your apostrophe just shifted |
| 20:45 |
ki`zune |
I'm not sure if your making this up |
| 20:45 |
red-001 |
I blame it on fast typing |
| 20:45 |
ki`zune |
forgot to copy the name |
| 20:46 |
segfault22 |
I like bacon |
| 20:47 |
ki`zune |
it was eatable |
| 20:47 |
Ronsor |
welp my #tox instance timed out, #betterUSAInternet #Gfiber2016 #ScrewedCast |
| 20:47 |
Ronsor |
and wrong channel |
| 20:48 |
red-001 |
should I be glad I have no idea what that means? |
| 20:48 |
ki`zune |
red-001: tox is a p2p messaging and voip |
| 20:49 |
Megaf |
uat? |
| 20:49 |
Megaf |
Ronsor: why hastags on IRC man? |
| 20:49 |
segfault22 |
Nikola Tesla created many wonderful devices that can be used for peaceful purposes like true wireless electricity (not just near-field induction, but actual LONGITUDINAL em waves) and just about all of our alternating current devices,... and he created some pretty horrifying weapons too, like a gun that shoots tungsten pellets charged with immense levels of Electricity that can melt through, well anything, and the first laser (but he didn't call it |
| 20:49 |
segfault22 |
a laser, and it was a lot better than what we have now) |
| 20:49 |
ki`zune |
messaging = messenger |
| 20:50 |
Megaf |
segfault22: how did he call his laser? |
| 20:50 |
segfault22 |
I don't remember,... |
| 20:50 |
red-001 |
Megaf to create new channels? |
| 20:50 |
ki`zune |
Megaf: s/he obviously wants people to join those greatly named channels |
| 20:50 |
red-001 |
I did |
| 20:50 |
Megaf |
you can /join #Channel1,#Channel2,#Channel3 |
| 20:51 |
red-001 |
#tox is a channel |
| 20:51 |
Megaf |
I used to use tox |
| 20:51 |
red-001 |
all the others just have me as admin |
| 20:51 |
Megaf |
added a bunch of people from here |
| 20:51 |
Megaf |
then I reseted my phone or something, and lost everyone |
| 20:51 |
ki`zune |
good job |
| 20:51 |
Ronsor |
libtoxcore roxs, seriously i'm gonna make a tox relay for minetest when i get around to it |
| 20:52 |
ki`zune |
I never go online in tox, because nobody is online in tox |
| 20:52 |
Ronsor |
i am |
| 20:52 |
Ronsor |
lol |
| 20:52 |
Ronsor |
always |
| 20:53 |
segfault22 |
some sites say that tesla was working with coherent light produced by illuminating ruby samples, but he didn't have the technology to make perfect rods and the like |
| 20:53 |
segfault22 |
but hey, coherent light |
| 20:53 |
ki`zune |
so much effort … typing “qtox†… copying password from keepassx … being not sure if I’m not correctly connected or just nobody online |
| 20:54 |
ki`zune |
*mhm why isn’t my smartphone online |
| 20:54 |
|
DMackey joined #minetest |
| 20:54 |
segfault22 |
The navy and DARPA are trying to build railguns that shoot massive projectiles, and they have reached the limits of the materials they are working with - notable, the rails are ruined after just a few uses and have to be replaced. They say we will need stronger materials to make better railguns. However, this is kinda the same problem with trying to build skyscrapers - in the past the materials were not strong enough, so we had to make building sma |
| 20:54 |
segfault22 |
ller. You know where I'm going with this... |
| 20:55 |
red-001 |
I learned more about tesla and fringe science from this channel then from any other single source |
| 20:55 |
red-001 |
including Wikipedia |
| 20:56 |
segfault22 |
We can make the railguns smaller to take advantage of the materials being stronger at smaller scales (the reason we can't build a ring of steel around earth, it wouldn't be strong enough to withstand the tidal forces, but smaller rings have been made and they hold up very well) |
| 20:57 |
segfault22 |
but you won't see this happening any time soon because the only way to power a tactical-size (carry it with two hands) railgun, is to harvest the power constantly pouring out of permanent magnets, which is secretly illegal (there's no law against it, but "they" will come stop you anyways) |
| 20:58 |
segfault22 |
and also, railguns can't be traced to their bullets because there is no firing mechanism to put a mark on them, and no casings, and not even a gunpowder-smoke discharge |
| 20:58 |
segfault22 |
they really don't like weapons that can't be traced back to the person who used it last |
| 20:59 |
segfault22 |
you could make a tiny railgun, say about the size of a blender, but it wouldn't be powerful enough to actually cause significant damage unless you're just lucky |
| 20:59 |
* red-001 |
now wants a railgun |
| 21:00 |
segfault22 |
you can make one |
| 21:00 |
red-001 |
or hoverboard |
| 21:00 |
ki`zune |
I guess with throwing an actual blender, you would be more successful |
| 21:00 |
Ronsor |
comcast keeps dropping packets |
| 21:01 |
|
Nosrick joined #minetest |
| 21:02 |
ki`zune |
“don’t try this at home†|
| 21:02 |
segfault22 |
hoverboards have been possible for a while, they would use a complex array of ultrasound transducers and a compact, high-power power source to run them (ZPE field power) |
| 21:02 |
segfault22 |
the ultrasound bounces off the ground and creates a bubble of sound waves that pushes against the board with force relative to the gravity force exerted on the board, up to some limit |
| 21:03 |
segfault22 |
yes, don't ever try this at home, especially those Floyd Sweet VTA with conditioned magnets (if you ever find someone who discovered how to make them) because if stressed too much, the magnets can explode like hand grenades (BAD) |
| 21:04 |
Nosrick |
agrecascino, you around? |
| 21:05 |
agrecascino |
Nosrick, yes |
| 21:05 |
Nosrick |
Hey, momtest has had an update to master. |
| 21:05 |
Nosrick |
Some bug fixes, some new stuff. |
| 21:05 |
Nosrick |
(Hopefully nothing broken) |
| 21:05 |
agrecascino |
alright |
| 21:05 |
segfault22 |
I have to go work on my mods some,... |
| 21:06 |
Megaf |
I dont have any good way of using tox, since I format my stuff way too often |
| 21:06 |
ki`zune |
I never do |
| 21:07 |
ki`zune |
the OS on my laptop is older than my laptop |
| 21:08 |
red-001 |
momtest? |
| 21:10 |
ki`zune |
Megaf: backup ~/.config/tox |
| 21:11 |
Nosrick |
red-001, my mod, based on Master of Magic, a 1993 video game. |
| 21:12 |
ki`zune |
yourmomtest |
| 21:22 |
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| 21:22 |
rubenwardy |
:-1: to encrypted PMs |
| 21:22 |
rubenwardy |
server owners need to be able to investigate claims of harrassment over pm |
| 21:23 |
red-001 |
how would you even do that? |
| 21:24 |
red-001 |
chatcommands are handled by the server |
| 21:25 |
ki`zune |
well you could transmit an encrypted message to the server |
| 21:29 |
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| 21:30 |
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| 21:31 |
rubenwardy |
red-001, exactly. APNG is requested end-to-end PMs on servers |
| 21:32 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, it's called "use your logs" |
| 21:32 |
APNG |
meh not in the mood for arguing |
| 21:32 |
rubenwardy |
APNG, with end to end encryption you can't use your logs on the client |
| 21:33 |
rubenwardy |
*to read PMs |
| 21:33 |
Megaf |
anyone have any idea how to manage your circles in Google+? |
| 21:33 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, with end to end encryption the server logs don't contain the messages |
| 21:33 |
APNG |
but client logs do |
| 21:33 |
Megaf |
maybe in people |
| 21:34 |
Megaf |
nope |
| 21:34 |
rubenwardy |
as an admin, I would want to be able to read the PMs of users if someone reports harassment, so I can ban if necessary |
| 21:34 |
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| 21:34 |
red-001 |
APNG not if you don't log it |
| 21:34 |
APNG |
red-001, then you're fucked |
| 21:34 |
rubenwardy |
if this were not possible, I'd disable PMs on my server |
| 21:34 |
APNG |
your fault for not logging |
| 21:35 |
Nollby |
YOU SHALL NOT TOUCH HAIRY POOTER. |
| 21:35 |
Fixer |
wat? |
| 21:35 |
APNG |
rubenwardy, I doubt that'd help |
| 21:35 |
red-001 |
anyway why would I want to give my logs to an admin if I would get banned for it |
| 21:35 |
Nosrick |
i muss hairy pooter |
| 21:35 |
Nollby |
Pass, not touch |
| 21:35 |
APNG |
red-001, implying you're the only one who can log >.> |
| 21:36 |
red-001 |
implying you can't tamper with logs |
| 21:36 |
APNG |
red-001, deal with it >.> |
| 21:36 |
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| 21:37 |
red-001 |
why would you want encryption for minetest anyway? |
| 21:37 |
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| 21:37 |
rubenwardy |
it's a silly request |
| 21:37 |
red-001 |
if you can tamper with logs they are no better then just flipping a coin to decide how is right |
| 21:38 |
rubenwardy |
I get the feeling that APNG is a troll |
| 21:38 |
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| 21:43 |
segfault22 |
you too? |
| 21:44 |
segfault22 |
"he's not spiderpig any more, he's harry plopper" |
| 21:45 |
Nollby |
Spiderpig...spiderpig... |
| 21:46 |
red-001 |
normalpig...normalpig |
| 21:46 |
Nollby |
red-001: You don't get the reference... |
| 21:46 |
segfault22 |
does whatever spider-pig-does |
| 21:46 |
red-001 |
I do |
| 21:47 |
segfault22 |
can-he-swing, from-a-web? |
| 21:47 |
red-001 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714-Ioa4XQw |
| 21:47 |
segfault22 |
no-he-can't 'cause he's-a-pig |
| 21:47 |
segfault22 |
(I may have got the "'cause" wrong, there may supposed to be an empty space there...) |
| 21:48 |
ElectronLibre |
Is there anywhere a script that could help me export the sqlite database of a minetest map into a postgresql server's database? I've tried many things already but they have all failed |
| 21:49 |
red-001 |
iirc there is a setting that does that. |
| 21:50 |
ElectronLibre |
I hope it's documented.. |
| 21:50 |
ElectronLibre |
Oh, idiot me |
| 21:50 |
Ronsor |
meh anyone feel like playing minetest with me? |
| 21:50 |
ElectronLibre |
There's "minetestserver --migrate" |
| 21:51 |
segfault22 |
so postgresql is now a supported database system? |
| 21:51 |
red-001 |
yes |
| 21:52 |
ElectronLibre |
Apparently so |
| 21:53 |
ElectronLibre |
And I'm experimenting with database servers, I'm sick of having heavy map files taking space on my laptop so I just send everything to a remote server |
| 21:53 |
Ronsor |
lol |
| 21:53 |
Ronsor |
map files arent that bad |
| 21:53 |
Ronsor |
unless you have 100s of them |
| 21:53 |
Ronsor |
22M /mt1/vanilla/map.sqlite |
| 21:53 |
ElectronLibre |
Well, when automatic generation scripts create gigabytes of map files in a world, it starts to be a bit big |
| 21:53 |
Ronsor |
oh |
| 21:53 |
Ronsor |
that's bad |
| 21:54 |
segfault22 |
I'm glad that its supported |
| 21:54 |
ElectronLibre |
The first map I'm exporting is 210M worth of data. Not that much compared to some of MFF's maps |
| 21:54 |
ElectronLibre |
And I have to reboot my laptop because of playback issues.. well I'll let that run during the night |
| 21:55 |
ElectronLibre |
Thanks for the answers that ultimately didn't help but made me find a solution. |
| 22:03 |
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Ronsor |
still anyone want to play minetest with me |
| 22:08 |
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| 22:42 |
Fixer |
i think you are overcomplicating :trollface: |
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| 23:37 |
MinetestBot |
[git] pinkysnowman -> minetest/minetest_game: Default: Eliminate redundant 'get modpath' calls 5e9e3f7 https://git.io/v6jJZ (2016-08-29T00:31:18+01:00) |
| 23:37 |
MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default, stairs, doors: Vary wood flammable and choppy group values 9952567 https://git.io/v6jJn (2016-08-29T00:24:30+01:00) |
| 23:42 |
i- |
hi, I'm building the server and I get this http://paste.debian.net/plain_h/f5d58349 |
| 23:42 |
i- |
wait, 404 |
| 23:42 |
rubenwardy |
The requested URL /plain_h/f5d58349 was not found on this server. |
| 23:42 |
i- |
hi, I'm building the server and I get this http://paste.debian.net/plainh/f5d58349 |
| 23:42 |
i- |
there |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
try: make clean and then build again? |
| 23:44 |
rubenwardy |
Also, what OS |
| 23:47 |
i- |
Debian 8.5 minimal |
| 23:48 |
i- |
make clean'd, trying again now |
| 23:49 |
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