| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:04 |
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| 00:53 |
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| 00:53 |
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| 00:54 |
est31 |
Can somebody ban menche? |
| 00:54 |
est31 |
or "QuailChaser" |
| 00:55 |
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Xenoth joined #minetest |
| 00:55 |
alket |
hi est31 |
| 00:55 |
est31 |
Hi alket |
| 01:00 |
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Enke joined #minetest |
| 01:39 |
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luizrpgluiz left #minetest |
| 01:44 |
WarrTab |
Wasn't there some trick to force a lighting recalc for when lighting gets screwed up? |
| 01:44 |
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luizrpgluiz joined #minetest |
| 01:44 |
luizrpgluiz |
hi all |
| 01:44 |
WarrTab |
Apparently trres growing caused it for me... |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
WarrTab are you using latest git? |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
on the server |
| 01:45 |
WarrTab |
Stable-0.4 |
| 01:45 |
est31 |
ugs dunno if paramats latest light fix is in there |
| 01:46 |
VanessaE |
WarrTab: you can use worldedit to fix badly-lit areas if it's just a super-dark shadow that came out of nowhere |
| 01:47 |
est31 |
if the worldedit on-board fix lights command doesnt work, do //replace air air |
| 01:49 |
WarrTab |
Hm, ugh, all of these require that I install something that I'm not sure I want staying on the server... |
| 01:49 |
WarrTab |
I hear worldedit is not for the faint of heart |
| 01:50 |
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luizrpgluiz left #minetest |
| 01:51 |
WarrTab |
Crap, and I had JUST had this idea for floodlights |
| 01:52 |
WarrTab |
Was trying to work out how I might code them to not grind a server to a halt if people use them everywhere |
| 01:52 |
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Zeno` joined #minetest |
| 01:59 |
WarrTab |
So apparently you can do some pretty interesting stuff if you sneak and jump at the same time |
| 02:00 |
Zeno` |
acrobatics! |
| 02:01 |
WarrTab |
Like building a ladder out of blocks and climbing it really fast |
| 02:01 |
WarrTab |
Or jumping up onto a 2-block-high wall |
| 02:02 |
WarrTab |
Sneaking also seems to let you catch yourself while falling, stopping instantly with no fall damage |
| 02:02 |
WarrTab |
You just need an edge of a node to catch onto |
| 02:03 |
WarrTab |
Hey Zeno` |
| 02:03 |
Zeno` |
hello, acrobat |
| 02:03 |
WarrTab |
hm, sadly my android irc client has no tab completion, though I can imagine why they might have left it out |
| 02:04 |
Zeno` |
I mean WarrTab |
| 02:04 |
WarrTab |
Same diff |
| 02:04 |
WarrTab |
Hey, since you reviewed pr 2462 already, feel like merging it? :-) |
| 02:05 |
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stormchaser3000 left #minetest |
| 02:05 |
WarrTab |
It feels awkward running clients with unofficial features long-term... |
| 02:39 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Stop formspecs closing with double-click in empty area 76177c8 http://git.io/ps7B (2015-03-09T12:35:37+10:00) |
| 02:43 |
Zeno` |
2462? |
| 02:43 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: Stop formspecs closing with double-click in empty area e74b8da http://git.io/ps7x (2015-03-09T12:42:25+10:00) |
| 02:51 |
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paramat joined #minetest |
| 02:52 |
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Guest89181 left #minetest |
| 02:57 |
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whtemple1959 joined #minetest |
| 03:01 |
WarrTab |
Zeno`: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/2462 |
| 03:01 |
whtemple1959 |
VanessaE: after single daddin my 5 year old son I am back to the challenge. I just saw an ostrich walk past sooo...Thank you very much for the advice on getting animals into our world |
| 03:01 |
VanessaE |
no rpob |
| 03:01 |
VanessaE |
no prob* |
| 03:01 |
est31 |
VanessaE, which animal mod did you suggest? |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
I didn't - I just explained how to open the setup dialog, in mobf :) |
| 03:02 |
est31 |
ah |
| 03:02 |
est31 |
ok :) |
| 03:02 |
whtemple1959 |
est31: the same to you soooo...Thank you very much on the screwdriver usage to fix my slab problem. My stairs look beautiful now that the huge blocks are not hanging down in the foyer. |
| 03:04 |
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paramat2 joined #minetest |
| 03:04 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, I need approval from another core dev. I'll +1 it though so there only needs one other approval |
| 03:04 |
WarrTab |
Thanks |
| 03:04 |
whtemple1959 |
Well I still believe that you both have been most helpfull |
| 03:04 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, how does it look and perform on Android btw? |
| 03:04 |
paramat2 |
FFS why am i paramat2? |
| 03:04 |
VanessaE |
does my untested +1 count? :) |
| 03:05 |
VanessaE |
paramat2: because you've been cloned. :P |
| 03:05 |
Zeno` |
untested +1's are a bit suspicious heh |
| 03:05 |
WarrTab |
Zeno`: looks good, but performs rather meh, I usually leave it disabled... but then again, could be my old tablet. |
| 03:05 |
paramat2 |
yeah i just registererd with nickserv |
| 03:05 |
WarrTab |
I've never tried logging into a world w/ 64x txrs before on it, which is the setting I usually try. |
| 03:06 |
WarrTab |
I guess I could test 32x... |
| 03:06 |
paramat2 |
didn't get my password into the client in time, it said paramat in use |
| 03:06 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, I know that most of the rest of the code has a lack of comments but maybe your PR could do with a sprinkle of informative ones |
| 03:06 |
Zeno` |
e.g. what u32 sx = (ctrx < 1) ? 0 : (ctrx - 1) is doing |
| 03:06 |
WarrTab |
I could do that, was just trying to be consistent. |
| 03:07 |
WarrTab |
that's essentially a cheap box filter w/ non-wrapping bounds check |
| 03:07 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, the only thing consistent about the current codebase is that it's consistently lacking in comments where comments would be beneficial :) |
| 03:08 |
Zeno` |
I like comments when they're helpful. I don't understand some of my *own* code after several months of not looking at it and I'd rather not go through things line by line re-interpreting them heh |
| 03:08 |
paramat2 |
apparently i am now identified as paramat, but appear here as second nick choice |
| 03:08 |
WarrTab |
for each pixel in image, if fully transparent, average rgb values of neighbor pixels weighted by alpha, and set rgb of current pixel to that, if non-zero weight |
| 03:08 |
WarrTab |
Ok, will add some comments... |
| 03:09 |
WarrTab |
also not sure how much should go in minetest.conf.example as opposed to code. |
| 03:09 |
Zeno` |
I don't mean useless comments. Judging from your code I think you know what comments are generally regarded as useful though ;) |
| 03:09 |
WarrTab |
X = x + 1 // add x to 1 |
| 03:09 |
Zeno` |
yeah, like that :-o |
| 03:09 |
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paramat2 left #minetest |
| 03:09 |
Zeno` |
lol |
| 03:10 |
Zeno` |
:P |
| 03:10 |
WarrTab |
"no, comments should explain WHY"... x = x + 1 // because I'm the programmer and you're a computer and you have to do what I say. |
| 03:11 |
exio4 |
I've seen a lot of people write comments like those |
| 03:12 |
exio4 |
I cried |
| 03:14 |
WarrTab |
My favorite bad comments are the ones where a subsequent dev has gone in and added explanation as to why the code is bad, but didn't fix the code. |
| 03:14 |
WarrTab |
Multi-line comments, // // // style, or /* * */ style? |
| 03:15 |
est31 |
WarrTab, http://dev.minetest.net/Code_style_guidelines |
| 03:16 |
WarrTab |
thanks, but it didn't answer that specific question... |
| 03:16 |
whtemple1959 |
est31: if you feel like still playing fix it felix maybe you can help me with a couple of issues concerning the carpets? |
| 03:17 |
WarrTab |
I guess it doesn't much matter? |
| 03:17 |
est31 |
wow lol |
| 03:17 |
exio4 |
WarrTab: at least those make sense |
| 03:17 |
est31 |
being fix it felix is fun when you are bored |
| 03:18 |
est31 |
but yes I help you :) |
| 03:18 |
exio4 |
WarrTab: I normally write comments on "hacky code" like "this code is supposed to do X, Y and Z, but using W instead of P and Q" |
| 03:18 |
* est31 |
is partially bored, partially procrastinating network rewrite of technic |
| 03:18 |
exio4 |
"because P and Q don't work with R" |
| 03:19 |
WarrTab |
What I meant was if your comment is going to wrap a few lines, use // before each line, or one of the /* */ variants? |
| 03:19 |
Zeno` |
I prefer (in minetest) // comments inside a code block that are one line |
| 03:19 |
whtemple1959 |
ok then I hope you are bored...when I used the carpet my furniture floated. I attempted the screw driver fix but that had no effect. again I seem to be googling the wrong phrases because I find no answers to the problem...but I am sure the solution is as easy as the screwdriver one |
| 03:20 |
Zeno` |
/* */ I use before the code block and also /* */ inside a code block if it looks nicer |
| 03:20 |
Zeno` |
kind of subjective |
| 03:20 |
Zeno` |
multiline comments I nearly always use /* */ |
| 03:20 |
Zeno` |
I think that's what most of the other devs do as well |
| 03:21 |
Warr1024 |
cool |
| 03:23 |
est31 |
whtemple1959 so you want to place the carpet at the bottom, and the furniture above? |
| 03:24 |
est31 |
I guess that your issue is rooted in the fact that minetest is a voxel game. |
| 03:25 |
whtemple1959 |
est31: well it seems that the carpet is at the bottom of the node..so when you place it and then try to set a cahir on the carpet the chair appears to float above the carpet |
| 03:25 |
est31 |
whtemple1959, yes its because of minetest being a voxel game |
| 03:26 |
est31 |
nothing to "fix here" I guess |
| 03:26 |
est31 |
you can't have two nodes occupying the same position |
| 03:26 |
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paramat2 joined #minetest |
| 03:27 |
whtemple1959 |
but I do not understand if the slabs can be rotated so they are on the top side of the node why can't the carpet be rotated in the same nammer thus allowing the chair to sit on the carpet? |
| 03:27 |
paramat2 |
nick/channel temporarily unavailable, so i am now my own clone =/ |
| 03:28 |
WarrTab |
Not all nodes can be rotated |
| 03:29 |
whtemple1959 |
well then I would have to ask why the designer chose to put the carpet on the bottom of the node rather than the top? |
| 03:29 |
paramat2 |
i think you can create a node that appears below it's real position, Sokomine did with snow |
| 03:30 |
paramat2 |
you'll need to create a floor node with carpet at it's top |
| 03:31 |
whtemple1959 |
paramat2: oh you make me laugh your taxes I can do write codi I do not... |
| 03:32 |
paramat2 |
WarrTab, did you get shadows when lots of saplings grew? i noticed that |
| 03:32 |
whtemple1959 |
paramat2: but that does seque into my other question when I am looking up at the ceiling in the basement I see the carpet. would there be a way to put a slab at the bottm of a node and the carpet at the top? |
| 03:33 |
WarrTab |
paramat2: yeah, exactly what happened to me, running stable-0.4 engine and _game. |
| 03:33 |
paramat2 |
yeah, it would be a single node with top half carpet, bottom half floor |
| 03:33 |
WarrTab |
Whtemple: no, you'd need 2 node spaces for that |
| 03:33 |
whtemple1959 |
paramat2: now...is there simple instruction for an idiot to follow which would allow me to do just that? |
| 03:33 |
Zeno` |
Warr1024, don't be afraid of functions if they're appropriate either |
| 03:33 |
paramat2 |
nope |
| 03:34 |
Zeno` |
the current code has a distinct lack of structure and functions |
| 03:34 |
WarrTab |
I usually make my floors 2n thick to ensure I can make the ceiling and floor of different materials, if I'm going to want to do that. |
| 03:34 |
paramat2 |
just make a node and split the texture top/bottom |
| 03:34 |
paramat2 |
yeah good idea, i prefer 2 deep floors so i can have deep pile carpeting |
| 03:35 |
WarrTab |
Zeno: I would, but I wanted to keep my code all in 1 place, I don't expect much of this to be reusable, and frankly my C++ probably isn't up to the task. |
| 03:35 |
paramat2 |
2 floor + 3 air = 5 nodes per floor |
| 03:36 |
WarrTab |
4 air if you want the place to be cool in the summertime, and aren't worried about heating bills in the winter |
| 03:37 |
Zeno` |
WarrTab, maybe it's not appropriate for that PR. I was being more general really :) |
| 03:37 |
paramat2 |
carpet as the bottom of a room node is a bad idea |
| 03:38 |
WarrTab |
well, there may be others someday, so thanks for the tip :-) |
| 03:39 |
paramat2 |
i generate big buildings so minimise nodes per floor |
| 03:41 |
WarrTab |
I usually use full-node flooring, like wool blocks |
| 03:42 |
WarrTab |
Or inverted slabs to save material, but always something walkable. |
| 03:42 |
WarrTab |
Now compiling to test |
| 03:42 |
WarrTab |
All I changed was comments, but I still gotta be sure :-) |
| 03:42 |
whtemple1959 |
paramat2: I like you sugestion to create a node with a slab at the bottom and carpet at the top. what would be even better if the slab could be edited to allow for different textures in the level below the carpet level. I am going to see if I can find out who made the carpet blocks and contact them. but thank you for the advice. |
| 03:43 |
WarrTab |
the problem with your compound node idea is that each possinble combination would need to be a separate node, as I understsnd the engine |
| 03:43 |
paramat2 |
yep |
| 03:43 |
WarrTab |
So that's n**2 nodes for all materials |
| 03:44 |
WarrTab |
If you had q00 different materials 9including color variations) it'd take 10,000 nodes to do the top/bottom combo |
| 03:44 |
est31 |
yea the matrix is getting to much dimensions now |
| 03:44 |
WarrTab |
Which is probably the main reason you don't already see this mod out there |
| 03:46 |
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| 03:46 |
WarrTab |
https://github.com/Warr1024/minetest/commit/835987fc5110589762a9f2c8ae5a27fcf63ce32d |
| 03:46 |
WarrTab |
Tbh I think I usually over-comment my code |
| 03:47 |
WarrTab |
It actually serves a secondary function in indicating how confident I am that that code is correct. |
| 03:47 |
WarrTab |
I.e. by investing an additional 80% in comments that'd have to be thrown away if the code is, I guess :-) |
| 03:49 |
WarrTab |
I guess my comments didn't address the "why not just use a highres texturepack?" argument, but maybe enough is enough already... |
| 03:50 |
whtemple1959 |
call me nieve but if plastic sheets, icu, and steel creates a stero or some plastic, speaker, and a digital clock creates an alarm clock then why couldn't 3 slab on th bottom and 3 wools across the dop make a floor node of stone and carpet? |
| 03:51 |
paramat2 |
it could |
| 03:51 |
whtemple1959 |
so to quote Cap't Picard....how do I make it so? |
| 03:52 |
VanessaE |
you need to define a node with properties like that, and make a recipe that can craft those materials into it |
| 03:53 |
WarrTab |
Meh, fixed some typos, added that explanation while I was at it. |
| 03:54 |
whtemple1959 |
VanessA: I saw a tutorial on how to make a node...I am gone to torment myself before bed...but again thank you for the animals I saw some ducks and chicks... my sone will be so happy that Daddy got him pets...thank you so very much |
| 03:55 |
WarrTab |
VanessaE: your issue re: formspec images scaling like crap, btw, might be a separate problem. |
| 03:55 |
WarrTab |
I noticed that the android gui controls look shitty too, and they're very high-res images |
| 03:56 |
WarrTab |
Seems like it shouldn't be too hard to enable blended downscaling, at least, for 2d gui elements |
| 03:56 |
VanessaE |
WarrTab: it's everywhere in minetest formspecs |
| 03:56 |
whtemple1959 |
Again to all of you thank you so much for the advice |
| 03:56 |
VanessaE |
all image elements are scaled by only nearest neighbor - nothing better is used, let alone a better set of steps to get to the desired size |
| 03:56 |
VanessaE |
(e.g. see my revised comment) |
| 03:57 |
VanessaE |
that's a different issue from the thing you were solving - I only referenced your pull because it does a similar job for in-world images |
| 03:57 |
VanessaE |
github just decided to make a connection between the two is all |
| 03:57 |
WarrTab |
irrlicht really *should* offer a better scaling option; if it doesn't, then maybe we can do it in software and cahce the result; 2d manips are relatively cheap |
| 03:58 |
VanessaE |
Zeno`: *poke* |
| 03:58 |
VanessaE |
irrlicht apparently does offer better methods, but minetest doesn't use them |
| 03:58 |
WarrTab |
Alternatively, it'd be nice to be able to just draw those using the existing 3d scaler; if my pr gets merged, we'll rarely have a need to turn off 3d filters :-) |
| 03:59 |
WarrTab |
I wrote my first irrlich api calls in that pr, so maybe I should go diggjng in the formspec code to flex my newfound skill |
| 04:00 |
paramat |
ah at last |
| 04:00 |
VanessaE |
did you see the test image I posted? |
| 04:01 |
WarrTab |
I swear, sometimes I don't know whether I enjoy digging nodes or digging lines of code in minetest more. |
| 04:01 |
WarrTab |
Yeah, saw it |
| 04:03 |
|
paramat left #minetest |
| 04:03 |
WarrTab |
You mean the one in the issue report, right? |
| 04:03 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2419#issuecomment-77733241 |
| 04:03 |
VanessaE |
this |
| 04:09 |
WarrTab |
Lanczos would be beyond the level of complexity I'd feel comfortable with in this context |
| 04:09 |
WarrTab |
But just doing dimple pixel antialiasing shouldnt be too bad |
| 04:09 |
WarrTab |
Code to scsle the image won't be hard |
| 04:10 |
WarrTab |
Code to manage a cache of scaled images, so as not to rescale them on every frame, moreso. |
| 04:10 |
VanessaE |
there's apparently an irrlicht function to do this, but I couldn't find too much about this whole thing - too much noise, not enough signal (and I don't understand C++ enough, let alone irrlicht) |
| 04:11 |
WarrTab |
I didn't see anything that looked like what we want |
| 04:12 |
WarrTab |
Irrlicht in general doesn't seem tomhave much support for the "scale up, but keep the pixellated aesthetic" |
| 04:12 |
VanessaE |
that's why I suggested doing it in two steps. |
| 04:12 |
WarrTab |
In my filter, I scaled up nearest and let the video caard scale down linear; that MIGHT work, but might need some tricky tuning |
| 04:13 |
WarrTab |
I guess up-nearest-down-linear could be a good first implementation, until something more clever comes along |
| 04:13 |
VanessaE |
yeah |
| 04:13 |
VanessaE |
that'd look better than the current way, for sure |
| 04:14 |
WarrTab |
It would be nice if I could just cache the up-nearest to a minimum size, like I do with my PR, then let irrlicht downsize it linearly as needed. |
| 04:15 |
WarrTab |
Problem is I don't see a draw2dImage overload that lets me ask for a filter |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
copyToScaled is what I ran across earlier |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
useful? |
| 04:15 |
WarrTab |
If I have to do the linear downscale to an jmsge instead of the screen, I need to manage thst memory use |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
Scaling* |
| 04:16 |
VanessaE |
good point |
| 04:16 |
WarrTab |
copytoscaled I think is actually what I'm using, and assuming it's nearest, in my filter |
| 04:16 |
VanessaE |
of course, if you have a limit set to say 64px, then there's probably not much memory usage there anyway |
| 04:17 |
WarrTab |
well, it's not the static use so much as dynamic |
| 04:17 |
WarrTab |
If i reuse that image on each draw, then it's fine |
| 04:17 |
VanessaE |
right |
| 04:17 |
WarrTab |
If each time I have to redo any of the software scaling, bye bye framerate |
| 04:18 |
VanessaE |
right, didn't think of that., |
| 04:19 |
WarrTab |
Maybe a lot of users could handle the load, but I've got a couple machines myself that are getting their asses kicked just handling the mesh recalcs |
| 04:19 |
WarrTab |
Plus, I code in C and C# (and others) but not C++ |
| 04:19 |
VanessaE |
yeah, better to cache the filtered/scaled results somewehre (disk) and reference those if possible. |
| 04:19 |
VanessaE |
of course, there's no point in retaining the original imagery in memory anyway, is there? |
| 04:20 |
WarrTab |
Ironically, I can handle malloc and free, but new and delete mystify me, and irrlicht's ref counting gives me the creeps |
| 04:20 |
WarrTab |
Well, I'd need to keep the original if they're used for other purposes, including appearing at a different size on a different formspec...? |
| 04:21 |
VanessaE |
shit. |
| 04:21 |
WarrTab |
Btw, my "texture scaling filter" actually works on media, not textures... |
| 04:21 |
WarrTab |
Meaning it should upsample any too-small formspec images, too |
| 04:22 |
WarrTab |
Might be worth seeing if using it improves your situation already, if you can compile your own client from that commit |
| 04:23 |
VanessaE |
I don't think it'll affect other things like a rendered cube in the formspec, though |
| 04:23 |
VanessaE |
that's where the scaling nastiness really stands out |
| 04:23 |
WarrTab |
yeah, I guess those render to an image, the stretch the image shittily, instead of rendering in 3d. |
| 04:23 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 04:24 |
VanessaE |
render-to-texture is the method I think. |
| 04:24 |
WarrTab |
Makes sense for performance reasons, and the ability to reuse that inventory "cube" image in other ways |
| 04:24 |
WarrTab |
I wonder if render-to-texture isnthe way to get irrlicht to smoothly scale a 2d image... |
| 04:25 |
WarrTab |
I thought inventory cubes were acrually isometric, though, not perspective |
| 04:25 |
VanessaE |
so scaled results of that code would have to be cached on disk somehow, indexed/hashed by mod+formspec call or some such |
| 04:25 |
VanessaE |
(is there a way to DO that? O_o) |
| 04:25 |
WarrTab |
Isometric you can do with a 2d transformation matrix |
| 04:25 |
VanessaE |
they are iso, yeah |
| 04:26 |
VanessaE |
but idk exactly how they go from singular images to rendered cubes. I've never looked at the code |
| 04:26 |
WarrTab |
I'm just thinking in-memory cache for now. |
| 04:26 |
VanessaE |
this is partly kahrl's domain also |
| 04:26 |
VanessaE |
*pokes at him for signs of life* |
| 04:26 |
WarrTab |
I'll have to dig in the code a bit more.. |
| 04:31 |
WarrTab |
it looks like what you want is copyToScaling to upscale to the smallest integer size that's at least as large as the target box, then copyToScalingBoxFilter to downscale to the exact tsrget size. |
| 04:31 |
VanessaE |
that's more or less it yeah |
| 04:31 |
WarrTab |
then probably memoizing those images in an in-memory cache keyed on (image name, target width, target height) would be ideal |
| 04:32 |
VanessaE |
that would work, yeah |
| 04:32 |
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| 04:32 |
VanessaE |
but there's one problem: what do you do when the user resizes their window? |
| 04:32 |
WarrTab |
cache misses |
| 04:32 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 04:33 |
WarrTab |
If we're smart, we trap that event and flush the cache |
| 04:33 |
VanessaE |
mmmm... |
| 04:33 |
WarrTab |
If not, well, it'll cost a little wasted ram, but hopefully not much... |
| 04:33 |
WarrTab |
And of course the cache could have some kind of purging mechanism for old entries... |
| 04:34 |
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| 04:35 |
VanessaE |
note that at 1600x1200, each final raw image will take a hair over 16k. |
| 04:35 |
VanessaE |
(using Unified Inventory's inventory slots as a guide, they render to about 79x75 pixels at that window size) |
| 04:35 |
WarrTab |
how are you calculating that? |
| 04:36 |
VanessaE |
79x75 pixel target size ^^^, so 75x75 pixels to make it square == 5625 pixels. triple that since it would have to be treated as a raw image |
| 04:36 |
VanessaE |
that gave me 16'875 |
| 04:36 |
WarrTab |
x4, not x3 |
| 04:36 |
VanessaE |
oh right |
| 04:36 |
WarrTab |
Rgba, not rgb |
| 04:36 |
VanessaE |
RGBA' |
| 04:37 |
VanessaE |
so ~22.5 k |
| 04:37 |
WarrTab |
A thousand of them would be 22mb |
| 04:37 |
WarrTab |
not really problematic on most hardware, though...? |
| 04:37 |
VanessaE |
that'd be about 120 MB of usage for Dreambuilder (there are about 5500 images there) |
| 04:37 |
VanessaE |
nah, probably not |
| 04:38 |
VanessaE |
especially if it's an optional filter |
| 04:38 |
WarrTab |
all filters should always be optional :-) |
| 04:39 |
VanessaE |
wait, do we count number of individual images, or the number of possible rendered items? or just the number that would likely be loaded to the user's client at one time? |
| 04:39 |
WarrTab |
I hate what plain mipmaps do to glass, and anything more than that makes either my fps or drawdist drop unacceptably on my tablet |
| 04:39 |
VanessaE |
s/rendered items/rendered nodes and items/ |
| 04:40 |
WarrTab |
well, for this filter, it'd be unique on-screen images |
| 04:40 |
VanessaE |
ok |
| 04:40 |
WarrTab |
So different source images and different sizes |
| 04:40 |
WarrTab |
But only the ones player has seen, if we're doing these on demand, which should be feasible |
| 04:41 |
VanessaE |
ok so in Dreambuilder's case, that would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000 items or so (there are 1833 in the inventory at present), so maybe 60 MB at the worst likely case |
| 04:41 |
VanessaE |
and that's if you don't expire old images |
| 04:42 |
WarrTab |
and we can probab;y get away with a hard limit, throwing away oldest; I know I'm used to a couple seconds of think-time on opening a new inventory... |
| 04:42 |
WarrTab |
Yeah, if that's the case, we can probably just skip the limit for first implementation |
| 04:43 |
VanessaE |
most of the inventory time is spent building meshes, so I doubt scaling a page of images will have more than a negligible impact. a unified inventory image is only about 450 pixels' worth of target image space. |
| 04:43 |
VanessaE |
er 450'000 |
| 04:44 |
VanessaE |
unified inventory PAGE is 450'000 pixels' worth. |
| 04:44 |
VanessaE |
actually, smaller than that. |
| 04:45 |
WarrTab |
well, I'm used to playing with only 16x textures, but my new filter expands those automatically, the way I've configured it, to 64x. |
| 04:45 |
VanessaE |
56x57 pixel rendered size for a creative inventory button on the right (at 1600x1200), so that's only about 255'360 pixels' worth. (there are 80 items on a page) |
| 04:45 |
WarrTab |
That's 16 times the memory, and it doesn't hurt. |
| 04:46 |
WarrTab |
At 128x (64 times the memory) I feel it, though, and at 256x (256 times) it hurts alright |
| 04:46 |
VanessaE |
that's fewer pixels than a single 512px image |
| 04:46 |
VanessaE |
so the scaling delay would be next to nothing I think. |
| 04:47 |
WarrTab |
But someone using a computer built within the last 5 years might shrug that off. |
| 04:50 |
WarrTab |
In your test images, you upscaled to a power of 2, and used lanczos... can you retry using an integer non-power-of-2, like 5, and then linear downscale? |
| 04:50 |
VanessaE |
sure |
| 04:50 |
VanessaE |
sec. |
| 04:51 |
WarrTab |
I think that's a lot more like what we can do reasonably cheaply in irrlicht, but SHOULD give you results about as good. |
| 04:51 |
WarrTab |
A "box" resample filter treats pixels as if they're a grid of squares/rectangles of solid color. |
| 04:52 |
WarrTab |
Lanczos is a much more complex model using points of light and contrast effects |
| 04:52 |
VanessaE |
http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/extra/gloopblocks_cement_pick.png |
| 04:52 |
WarrTab |
Frankly, if I had my choice of scaler, I might try something like hqx or xBRZ |
| 04:52 |
VanessaE |
wait. |
| 04:53 |
VanessaE |
used the wrong downscaling algo |
| 04:53 |
VanessaE |
there, now you can (re)load it. |
| 04:53 |
WarrTab |
Looks good to me |
| 04:53 |
VanessaE |
scaled up by 160px (so 10*) with NN, then down to 75px with linear. |
| 04:54 |
WarrTab |
No shitty resize artifacts are evident |
| 04:55 |
WarrTab |
Btw, if you want the pie-in-the-sky version of this, check out http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_scaling#Pixel_art_scaling_algorithms |
| 04:55 |
VanessaE |
linear actually looks pretty reasonable. |
| 04:56 |
WarrTab |
I made a texture pack by harvesting my 16px textures and running them through hq4x, and it was neat, even if the heuristic was a bit off in places |
| 04:57 |
VanessaE |
some hdx-variant would look nice indeed. |
| 04:57 |
VanessaE |
er hQx. |
| 04:58 |
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| 04:59 |
WarrTab |
xBRZ looks absolutely awesome, but IIRC the original xBR was written in GLSL, and I haven't found any variant that offers a simple png->png cmdline version for me to play around with |
| 04:59 |
VanessaE |
that method looks nice too |
| 05:01 |
VanessaE |
too complex to use here though I guess |
| 05:01 |
VanessaE |
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xbrz/ |
| 05:03 |
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| 05:06 |
OldCoder |
VanessaE, how does one make black dye? |
| 05:06 |
WarrTab |
Crush coal? |
| 05:07 |
VanessaE |
OldCoder: I don't remember in the default game, but in dreambuilder you can just craft coal |
| 05:07 |
VanessaE |
actually same for the default game too |
| 05:07 |
WarrTab |
it can be made the hard way too, I think, like mixing brown and blue |
| 05:07 |
OldCoder |
I don't see that; in the games I have it looks like one needs a black flower |
| 05:08 |
OldCoder |
But thank you both |
| 05:08 |
OldCoder |
WarrTab mixing brown and blue using what mechanism? |
| 05:08 |
WarrTab |
Craft them together |
| 05:08 |
WarrTab |
should be shapeless |
| 05:08 |
OldCoder |
Ah |
| 05:09 |
OldCoder |
Brown and blue dyes? |
| 05:09 |
WarrTab |
I think |
| 05:09 |
OldCoder |
Thank you, worth looking into |
| 05:27 |
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| 06:42 |
Zeno` |
do NOT panic |
| 06:42 |
Zeno` |
I am back |
| 06:47 |
Zeno` |
I repeat. Do NOT panic! |
| 06:58 |
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| 06:59 |
fuznuts |
I am in creative mode on a worldpainter map I made. I used shapes to form the structure of buildings, but when I go to make a door, every time I take a block out of the side of the structure, the ones on top drop down to replace it..How do i get around this? |
| 07:02 |
Miner_48er |
what are the top nodes? |
| 07:46 |
fuznuts |
that is the thing....I am not sure if the higher numbers are the ones closest to the bottom, but that is what it seems like... |
| 07:46 |
fuznuts |
which is kind of counterintuitive considering it means something completely opposite elsewhere in the process of starting a map. |
| 07:48 |
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| 07:51 |
fuznuts |
the top nodes are sand though. and i am thinking probably 150 down. |
| 07:51 |
ThatGraemeGuy |
sand drops if there is nothing below it, what you are seeing is completely normal |
| 07:54 |
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| 08:02 |
srifqi |
"how to place a node in singlenode-mapgen world?" |
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| 08:11 |
meldrian |
Hellowww |
| 08:11 |
BlandCereal |
Hi. |
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| 08:20 |
Zeno` |
est, you just got younger |
| 08:20 |
Zeno` |
did you regenerate like The Doctor? |
| 08:21 |
est |
I didn't see that series |
| 08:21 |
est |
I just know some youtube videos with "I am the doctor" |
| 08:21 |
Zeno` |
yeah, it's new. Not many people have |
| 08:22 |
srifqi |
how to rename nickname? |
| 08:22 |
Zeno` |
/nick <newname>? |
| 08:23 |
rifqi |
ah, i see, thanks |
| 08:24 |
srifqi |
Zeno`: i think i should learn MORE about irc |
| 08:24 |
Zeno` |
srifqi, it is a dark and dangerous world full of voodoo |
| 08:24 |
srifqi |
what? |
| 08:24 |
srifqi |
XD |
| 08:24 |
Zeno` |
lol :D |
| 08:24 |
est |
bad part of irc is that every client and every network does their own stuff |
| 08:25 |
srifqi |
still thinking about how to "squash" a pr |
| 08:26 |
srifqi |
nvm |
| 08:31 |
srifqi |
Zeno`: why you have a backslash at your nick? |
| 08:31 |
est |
/msg NickServ info Zeno |
| 08:32 |
est |
-NickServ- Last seen : now |
| 08:32 |
Zeno` |
backtick |
| 08:32 |
Zeno` |
but... when I'm idle I am known as someone else.. |
| 08:32 |
Zeno` |
like now ;) |
| 08:33 |
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| 08:33 |
srifqi |
\er |
| 08:33 |
\er |
yes? |
| 08:33 |
srifqi |
why you change your nick to \er? |
| 08:33 |
\er |
it's the nick I use when I am idle |
| 08:33 |
\er |
i.e. away from keyboard :) |
| 08:34 |
est |
slasher? |
| 08:34 |
\er |
yep |
| 08:34 |
srifqi |
ah, "slash"er |
| 08:34 |
\er |
usually I am afk when I go smashing keyboards and stuff |
| 08:34 |
\er |
so... slasher |
| 08:34 |
est |
in fact you are a backslasher |
| 08:34 |
\er |
lol |
| 08:34 |
srifqi |
yay! finally know how to "squash" commits *offtopic |
| 08:35 |
\er |
I can't register forwardslasher |
| 08:35 |
srifqi |
backslasher |
| 08:35 |
srifqi |
\er: backslaher |
| 08:35 |
srifqi |
\er: *backslasher |
| 08:35 |
srifqi |
argh... |
| 08:35 |
\er |
squashing is a very important skill to learn |
| 08:35 |
srifqi |
yes it is |
| 08:35 |
srifqi |
and now i'm finally understand, and it works! |
| 08:35 |
srifqi |
backslashv? |
| 08:35 |
\v |
lol |
| 08:36 |
z3n0 |
ok, I need to do some things |
| 08:36 |
z3n0 |
bbiab |
| 08:37 |
srifqi |
z3n0 = zeno XD |
| 08:37 |
srifqi |
what does "bbiab" means? |
| 08:37 |
est |
1337$p33k |
| 08:38 |
srifqi |
!calc 2^10 |
| 08:38 |
est |
1024 |
| 08:38 |
srifqi |
est: why MinetestBot don't answer? |
| 08:38 |
est |
srifqi, http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bbiab |
| 08:38 |
srifqi |
deutsch? |
| 08:40 |
est |
ah one of those stupid url-locale-leaking services again |
| 08:40 |
est |
ja deutsh |
| 08:41 |
est |
deutsch* |
| 08:41 |
srifqi |
kann du sprechen englisch? *am i right? |
| 08:41 |
* z3n0 |
downloads arch 20150301 |
| 08:41 |
srifqi |
there is #minetest-de? |
| 08:41 |
est |
yes |
| 08:42 |
z3n0 |
getting sick and tired of fedora breaking my builds |
| 08:42 |
est |
srifqi, kann is not right, if you are speaking to a person then its "kannst" |
| 08:42 |
est |
and dont use infinitive "sprechen" |
| 08:42 |
est |
or sorry its ok |
| 08:42 |
est |
but words need to be arranged other way |
| 08:43 |
srifqi |
okay, registered, /me opens inbox |
| 08:43 |
est |
kannst du englisch sprechen? |
| 08:43 |
est |
thats the right way |
| 08:43 |
est |
but everybody would understand you :) |
| 08:43 |
srifqi |
okay, i'm not german |
| 08:43 |
z3n0 |
lol |
| 08:43 |
srifqi |
just tried that |
| 08:44 |
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* z3n0 |
will install a very minimal install of arch... command line only with build crap |
| 08:44 |
z3n0 |
hopefully that solves my ongoing issues |
| 08:44 |
est |
with? |
| 08:45 |
srifqi |
!calc 2^12 |
| 08:45 |
z3n0 |
fedora keeps insisting on changing stuff when I update |
| 08:45 |
srifqi |
! |
| 08:45 |
srifqi |
! |
| 08:45 |
srifqi |
:( |
| 08:45 |
z3n0 |
I suppose I could make the files immutable |
| 08:45 |
est |
thats what updating is for |
| 08:45 |
z3n0 |
but then.. easier this way |
| 08:45 |
z3n0 |
est, but it breaks my delicate android builds :) |
| 08:45 |
srifqi |
!calc 2^2 |
| 08:46 |
z3n0 |
I will run headless virtualbox |
| 08:46 |
z3n0 |
sounds fun anyway :) |
| 08:46 |
est |
z3n0, then dont install your android toolchain into the system directories. thats no good practice anyway |
| 08:46 |
z3n0 |
est, I'm not! |
| 08:46 |
* est |
considers make install to be dangerous |
| 08:46 |
z3n0 |
they are in opt/ |
| 08:47 |
srifqi |
!calc 2^10 |
| 08:47 |
z3n0 |
I'm not 100% stupid. Only 98% |
| 08:47 |
srifqi |
2%? |
| 08:47 |
z3n0 |
yes, 2% insane |
| 08:47 |
est |
/opt/local or opt bin? |
| 08:47 |
est |
for me, everything is under ~ |
| 08:47 |
est |
ok some stuff is also under ~/../../opt |
| 08:47 |
z3n0 |
est, that's my normal approach as well |
| 08:47 |
est |
but thats also under ~ after all |
| 08:47 |
est |
:p |
| 08:48 |
z3n0 |
anyway my cpu can virtualise an init 3 environment that's probably just as fast as on metal |
| 08:48 |
z3n0 |
so I think I'll do this as a learning experience anyway :) |
| 08:49 |
z3n0 |
actually there is no reason it should be any slower |
| 08:49 |
z3n0 |
nothing significant anywya |
| 08:53 |
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| 08:57 |
srifqi |
z3n0: have you tried to squash 6 commit? how to do that? |
| 09:01 |
srifqi |
nvm, works, even when there was a merge conflicts! |
| 09:03 |
srifqi |
est: so, are you from germany? |
| 09:04 |
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| 09:04 |
srifqi |
gotta go |
| 09:04 |
srifqi |
!calc 2*10 |
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| 11:59 |
srifqi |
est |
| 11:59 |
est |
srifqi, yes |
| 12:00 |
srifqi |
is Zeno` still on? |
| 12:00 |
est |
yup |
| 12:00 |
est |
last action 7 minutes ago |
| 12:00 |
est |
last "real" one 15 mins ago |
| 12:01 |
srifqi |
what programming lang that you can? |
| 12:02 |
Zeno` |
c, c++, asm, modula-2, pascal, cobol, python, lisp |
| 12:02 |
Zeno` |
maybe basic |
| 12:02 |
Zeno` |
hmm lua, c# |
| 12:02 |
Zeno` |
sometimes fortran |
| 12:02 |
srifqi |
Hi Zeno` |
| 12:03 |
srifqi |
that's much |
| 12:03 |
est |
most programming languages are the same |
| 12:04 |
srifqi |
what ia the differences? the compiler? |
| 12:04 |
srifqi |
is* |
| 12:04 |
est |
compiler is different |
| 12:04 |
est |
much dont even have one |
| 12:04 |
est |
like asm |
| 12:05 |
srifqi |
asm uses nasm? |
| 12:05 |
est |
and the compiler for c# doesnt translate to "native" bytecode |
| 12:05 |
est |
but for microsoft's recently open-sourced virtual machine |
| 12:06 |
srifqi |
then how to build a exe file? from c or asm |
| 12:07 |
est |
nasm is no compiler |
| 12:07 |
est |
a compiler generates bytecode from cross-platform code |
| 12:07 |
srifqi |
what it does? |
| 12:07 |
est |
asm is not crossplatform |
| 12:07 |
est |
except llvm asm ofc |
| 12:08 |
srifqi |
what'a that? |
| 12:08 |
srifqi |
s& |
| 12:08 |
est |
llvm is the basis for clang |
| 12:08 |
srifqi |
s* |
| 12:08 |
est |
clang is a new and recently very successful compiler |
| 12:08 |
srifqi |
woah, many things idk |
| 12:08 |
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| 12:09 |
est |
direct rival to gcc |
| 12:09 |
srifqi |
how about autohotkey? |
| 12:09 |
est |
and clang |
| 12:09 |
est |
sorry |
| 12:09 |
est |
what? |
| 12:09 |
est |
autohotkey? |
| 12:10 |
srifqi |
you don't know it? |
| 12:10 |
srifqi |
:’( |
| 12:10 |
est |
whats that |
| 12:10 |
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| 12:11 |
est |
google sais its an automation tool for windows, do you mean that? |
| 12:11 |
srifqi |
another programming language |
| 12:11 |
srifqi |
maybe |
| 12:12 |
srifqi |
so? |
| 12:12 |
est |
I guess thats interpreted |
| 12:12 |
Calinou |
it's more scripting than programming |
| 12:12 |
est |
it doesnt seem to be a language that does real hard work |
| 12:13 |
Calinou |
on GNU/Linux, you can use xdotool |
| 12:13 |
est |
as in requiring alot of cpu |
| 12:13 |
Calinou |
which can click, press keys, move mouse and type for you |
| 12:13 |
ekem |
its a scripting language |
| 12:13 |
ekem |
for yes, windows |
| 12:13 |
ekem |
desktop managers and things will use autohotkey |
| 12:14 |
srifqi |
ekem: how to convert it into exe? |
| 12:14 |
ekem |
you probably wont find a method to accomplish that really, but you can package it in an exe to install it |
| 12:14 |
srifqi |
??? |
| 12:15 |
ekem |
the scripts you use for autohotkey are interpreted by autohotkey |
| 12:15 |
ekem |
so you would use an exe to deploy autohotkey.exe for a user or check if its installed and then place the .ahk files |
| 12:15 |
est |
if you package it into an exe, you need to add some parts of autohotkey too in order to make it work |
| 12:16 |
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| 12:16 |
ekem |
ah i get a better idea of what you want to do |
| 12:16 |
ekem |
you just compile the scripts |
| 12:16 |
ekem |
install ahk and you will see |
| 12:17 |
srifqi |
ekem: just curious. only that :-) |
| 12:17 |
ekem |
ah ok, like est says its just packages the scripts with the interpretor |
| 12:19 |
srifqi |
so, what programming language(s) are you doing now? |
| 12:19 |
srifqi |
working on* |
| 12:19 |
ekem |
who is that directed towards |
| 12:20 |
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| 12:20 |
srifqi |
all who cares about my chat |
| 12:21 |
srifqi |
nobody? |
| 12:21 |
ekem |
wat are you learning srifqi |
| 12:22 |
srifqi |
for now? |
| 12:22 |
ekem |
forever |
| 12:22 |
srifqi |
ummm... |
| 12:23 |
srifqi |
many things. as i'm still 9th grade (in Indonesia) |
| 12:24 |
srifqi |
!calc 2*2 |
| 12:24 |
ekem |
oh right on |
| 12:24 |
ekem |
!help |
| 12:24 |
MinetestBot |
https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md |
| 12:24 |
ekem |
reveals: !c |
| 12:25 |
srifqi |
ah, forget that. |
| 12:25 |
srifqi |
thanks |
| 12:25 |
ekem |
!c dy/dx pi^x |
| 12:25 |
MinetestBot |
SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1) |
| 12:25 |
ekem |
it derped |
| 12:25 |
srifqi |
!c 2^10==1024 |
| 12:25 |
MinetestBot |
False |
| 12:25 |
srifqi |
!c 2^10 |
| 12:25 |
MinetestBot |
8 |
| 12:25 |
AnotherBrick |
xor :D |
| 12:26 |
srifqi |
ah ^ means xor hehehe |
| 12:26 |
ekem |
!g differentiate pi^x |
| 12:26 |
MinetestBot |
ekem: http://www.derivative-calculator.net/ |
| 12:26 |
ekem |
eh close enough |
| 12:26 |
ekem |
!g 2*2 |
| 12:26 |
MinetestBot |
ekem: http://www.twoplustwo.com/ |
| 12:26 |
srifqi |
!c 2*2 |
| 12:26 |
MinetestBot |
4 |
| 12:27 |
srifqi |
!dev formspec |
| 12:27 |
MinetestBot |
"Formspec defines a menu." - http://dev.minetest.net/formspec |
| 12:27 |
srifqi |
why we are testing ALL command? XD |
| 12:27 |
srifqi |
pr #1990 |
| 12:27 |
srifqi |
eh? |
| 12:28 |
srifqi |
why ShadowBot? |
| 12:28 |
srifqi |
ShadowBot |
| 12:28 |
srifqi |
ekem? |
| 12:30 |
srifqi |
est, have you github account? |
| 12:31 |
est |
yes |
| 12:31 |
est |
est31 |
| 12:35 |
srifqi |
why 31??? |
| 12:35 |
est |
est was taken |
| 12:35 |
est |
why srifqi? |
| 12:36 |
srifqi |
nvm |
| 12:36 |
est |
note, that I have this nick (est) only since today |
| 12:36 |
est |
before, my nick was est31 |
| 12:36 |
srifqi |
oh, okay |
| 12:36 |
est |
I'll perhaps keep est31 |
| 12:36 |
srifqi |
kickall mod :-) |
| 12:37 |
srifqi |
found in your repo |
| 12:37 |
est |
yup :D |
| 12:37 |
srifqi |
another just forks, hehehe |
| 12:38 |
est |
I have a password manager |
| 12:38 |
est |
https://github.com/est31/minetest-pwm |
| 12:38 |
srifqi |
ah, missed that |
| 12:38 |
srifqi |
sorry |
| 12:40 |
|
Guest4022 joined #minetest |
| 12:42 |
srifqi |
!btc eur |
| 12:42 |
MinetestBot |
1 BTC = 257.1600 € |
| 12:43 |
srifqi |
woah, 257€ |
| 12:44 |
srifqi |
!hash md5 srifqi |
| 12:44 |
MinetestBot |
ee07df7744b6f53656875b75fdf893b8 |
| 12:46 |
est |
what a pity that there are no known printable strings that trigger a collision |
| 12:46 |
est |
I mean, there is this: http://www.mscs.dal.ca/~selinger/md5collision/ |
| 12:46 |
est |
but thats binary |
| 12:49 |
|
turtleman_ joined #minetest |
| 12:50 |
srifqi |
that's why passwords are strings not binary :D |
| 12:51 |
est |
collision isnt bad |
| 12:51 |
est |
for passwords |
| 12:51 |
est |
only second preimage attack |
| 12:51 |
srifqi |
wat? |
| 12:51 |
est |
but md5 is very strong |
| 12:52 |
srifqi |
than sha1? |
| 12:52 |
est |
collision: you can chose A and B, and need to get H(A)==H(B) |
| 12:52 |
srifqi |
yes, knew it |
| 12:52 |
est |
second preimage: you have H(B), but don't know B, and now you search A to get H(A) == H(B) |
| 12:53 |
srifqi |
!hash sha256 srifqi |
| 12:53 |
MinetestBot |
3491e6ed5188d7d30389d3d9180a14e1d4f94d483d8a3866e64732b603d80470 |
| 12:53 |
srifqi |
!hash md2 srifqi |
| 12:53 |
MinetestBot |
srifqi: Unknown hash functions, supported: sha256, sha224, sha1, sha512, md5, sha384 |
| 12:53 |
srifqi |
:'( |
| 12:54 |
|
SylvieLorxu joined #minetest |
| 12:55 |
srifqi |
AnotherBrick? |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
!hash sha512 srifqi |
| 12:56 |
MinetestBot |
4b6c200028fcb419de4e3d1b3e81a28ed8472061cbc866fe0a8d30fdbc6ac068f0c245ac4eab7fc57ae54c2d8c248d04cab13cd3f0eda1c838456251c2c72c35 |
| 12:56 |
Calinou |
a very secure srifqi |
| 12:57 |
srifqi |
nice! |
| 12:57 |
srifqi |
sha16777216? hehehe |
| 12:57 |
srifqi |
!hash sha16777216 srifqi |
| 12:57 |
MinetestBot |
srifqi: Unknown hash functions, supported: sha256, sha224, sha1, sha512, md5, sha384 |
| 12:58 |
srifqi |
lol |
| 12:59 |
srifqi |
hello MinetestBot |
| 12:59 |
MinetestBot |
Hello srifqi |
| 13:00 |
srifqi |
*feels lonely |
| 13:00 |
srifqi |
XD |
| 13:02 |
srifqi |
is this channel for chit-chat? |
| 13:02 |
Dartmouth |
yup |
| 13:02 |
Zeno` |
chitty chitty bang bang, chitty chitty bang bang, I love you |
| 13:02 |
srifqi |
ah, |
| 13:02 |
Zeno` |
ooo ahh |
| 13:03 |
srifqi |
wat? |
| 13:03 |
srifqi |
what is that sentence? |
| 13:03 |
srifqi |
lyric? |
| 13:03 |
Zeno` |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTTzcXSLjhI |
| 13:03 |
srifqi |
song? |
| 13:04 |
Zeno` |
it's at the top of the charts at the moment |
| 13:07 |
srifqi |
who is the singer's name |
| 13:08 |
srifqi |
Zeno` |
| 13:09 |
Zeno` |
hmm |
| 13:09 |
Zeno` |
not sure |
| 13:09 |
Zeno` |
Dick Van Dyke? |
| 13:11 |
srifqi |
where does this songs come from |
| 13:11 |
srifqi |
Zeno` |
| 13:11 |
Zeno` |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitty_Chitty_Bang_Bang |
| 13:11 |
Calinou |
updated Ubuntu build |
| 13:12 |
exio4 |
hi cute people |
| 13:12 |
exio4 |
how is your sweet life goin' |
| 13:13 |
srifqi |
exio4: fine, thanks. how about you? |
| 13:13 |
srifqi |
Zeno`: okay, understand |
| 13:13 |
exio4 |
same, I would say, thank you! <3 |
| 13:14 |
srifqi |
Calinou: how large does ubuntu OS take? |
| 13:14 |
srifqi |
:-) |
| 13:14 |
srifqi |
3GB? |
| 13:14 |
Zeno` |
3gb?! |
| 13:14 |
Zeno` |
even fedora won't use that much |
| 13:15 |
srifqi |
too much? |
| 13:15 |
exio4 |
take what |
| 13:15 |
exio4 |
like ram usage, hdd? |
| 13:15 |
srifqi |
space in harddrive |
| 13:15 |
exio4 |
I don't really care about _that_ that much |
| 13:15 |
srifqi |
756MB? |
| 13:16 |
srifqi |
how large? |
| 13:16 |
exio4 |
we need ZFS |
| 13:16 |
srifqi |
i want to install it, but i must allocate space required |
| 13:16 |
srifqi |
so? |
| 13:17 |
exio4 |
just give it 15 or 30 gb |
| 13:18 |
srifqi |
that's what i want. thanks |
| 13:19 |
exio4 |
it'll give you room for having also files there and relatively don't worry about it |
| 13:20 |
srifqi |
so linux based files are small(er than windows hehehe) |
| 13:20 |
exio4 |
est: why wouldn't nasm be a compiler |
| 13:21 |
exio4 |
after all, a compiler is a tool that compiles between two programming languages |
| 13:24 |
est |
exio4, its an assembler |
| 13:24 |
|
srifqi joined #minetest |
| 13:24 |
exio4 |
still a compiler |
| 13:24 |
srifqi |
????? |
| 13:24 |
srifqi |
evening |
| 13:25 |
exio4 |
hi long time no see! ;P |
| 13:25 |
srifqi |
XD |
| 13:25 |
exio4 |
est: would you consider a program that compiles Python code to C a what? |
| 13:25 |
srifqi |
just a few minutes |
| 13:25 |
exio4 |
as an example |
| 13:25 |
exio4 |
srifqi: it felt like ten years! |
| 13:25 |
srifqi |
lol |
| 13:26 |
exio4 |
an assembler is an specific compiler |
| 13:27 |
srifqi |
any pear (php) that can parse JSON? |
| 13:28 |
srifqi |
!g srifqi |
| 13:28 |
MinetestBot |
srifqi: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10940 |
| 13:29 |
est |
exio4 ok convinced |
| 13:31 |
srifqi |
!tw srifqi |
| 13:31 |
MinetestBot |
srifqi: Give me a link, a @username, or a tweet id |
| 13:31 |
srifqi |
!tw @srifqi |
| 13:31 |
MinetestBot |
Sorry, couldn't get a tweet from https://twitter.com/srifqi?1425907903.9976962 (@srifqi) |
| 13:33 |
srifqi |
maybe MinetestBot should add !fb command |
| 13:33 |
|
jordan4ibanez joined #minetest |
| 13:35 |
srifqi |
jordan4ibanez |
| 13:35 |
jordan4ibanez |
Hello |
| 13:35 |
srifqi |
hello |
| 13:40 |
|
Ritchie joined #minetest |
| 13:45 |
jordan4ibanez |
I am just so confused as to how to go about adding ncurses to my build options in ncurses |
| 13:50 |
srifqi |
jordan4ibanez, what ya doing? |
| 13:51 |
jordan4ibanez |
Trying to learn how to use ncurses so we can have terminal input on the server |
| 13:51 |
srifqi |
woah |
| 13:51 |
srifqi |
good luck |
| 13:52 |
est |
good luck with devs convincing of yet another dependency |
| 13:52 |
jordan4ibanez |
It would have to run on a seperate thread as to not stop the main loop |
| 13:52 |
jordan4ibanez |
Oh I don't care if they want it, I don't even know if I can do it |
| 13:59 |
|
FreeFull joined #minetest |
| 14:10 |
|
srifqi joined #minetest |
| 14:14 |
srifqi |
how to use ShadowBot? |
| 14:16 |
est |
~source |
| 14:16 |
ShadowBot |
My source is at https://github.com/ProgVal/Limnoria -- Custom plugins are at https://github.com/ShadowNinja/Limnoria-plugins |
| 14:17 |
est |
~rainbow srifqi |
| 14:17 |
ShadowBot |
est: srifqi |
| 14:22 |
jordan4ibanez |
Man, I always thought c++ was very complicated, it's much easier when you break it down, it almost feels like python |
| 14:27 |
marktraceur |
You're looking at a piece of code without pointers, I bet. |
| 14:28 |
Zeno` |
pointers are not complicated |
| 14:29 |
exio4 |
what's complicated is OOP |
| 14:29 |
Zeno` |
especially if you've programmed in assembly |
| 14:29 |
exio4 |
what is* |
| 14:29 |
exio4 |
also, mutable data |
| 14:29 |
AnotherBrick |
also lambdas |
| 14:29 |
est |
mutable data?? |
| 14:30 |
exio4 |
lambdas what |
| 14:30 |
est |
lambdas: here functions |
| 14:30 |
exio4 |
est: wut |
| 14:30 |
AnotherBrick |
lambda function |
| 14:30 |
exio4 |
yes, what with lambdas |
| 14:30 |
exio4 |
anonymous functions are nice |
| 14:30 |
Zeno` |
if you know lisp or any other functional language lambdas are not complicated either |
| 14:30 |
exio4 |
high-order functions are the king of code reuse |
| 14:30 |
est |
jup did use functional features of lua today |
| 14:30 |
est |
code not released yet |
| 14:31 |
est |
but its really just cool |
| 14:31 |
Zeno` |
c++ is a crappy language though |
| 14:31 |
Zeno` |
C is much nicer |
| 14:31 |
AnotherBrick |
if you use lisp - everything is lambda, in C++ it's a perfect way of overcomplicating code |
| 14:31 |
exio4 |
C++ is crappy because it does everything in its own weird way |
| 14:31 |
exio4 |
AnotherBrick: if you use lisp, you said anything |
| 14:32 |
exio4 |
also, "lisp" alone doesn't mean anything |
| 14:32 |
est |
and c++ just wants to do everything |
| 14:32 |
exio4 |
it just means a big family of languages |
| 14:32 |
exio4 |
where you've got things like common lisp, which are imperative |
| 14:32 |
Zeno` |
it's kind of why I oppose c++11 |
| 14:32 |
exio4 |
and scheme on the other side |
| 14:32 |
Zeno` |
(one of the reasons anyway) |
| 14:32 |
|
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| 14:33 |
Zeno` |
minetest is a game engine... not some kind of generic reusable library |
| 14:33 |
exio4 |
I think C++11 is a better language than previous C++s |
| 14:33 |
exio4 |
Zeno`: ? |
| 14:33 |
exio4 |
Zeno`: so what? |
| 14:33 |
Zeno` |
exio4, so I am sick of the constantly moving target that C++ is |
| 14:33 |
Zeno` |
not because I don't understand it, but because it's constantly moving |
| 14:34 |
est |
I'm mostly indifferent in this discussion |
| 14:34 |
Zeno` |
If I was 100% in charge of minetest I'd allow classes and single inheritance... not much else |
| 14:34 |
est |
I dont like that code can only be compiled when you have arch linux or debian experimental |
| 14:35 |
Zeno` |
maybe c11 auto is nice |
| 14:35 |
est |
auto is nice yes |
| 14:35 |
est |
but a bit dangerous |
| 14:35 |
est |
operators are nice too |
| 14:35 |
Zeno` |
as long as they're not overused |
| 14:36 |
exio4 |
Zeno`: I think inheritance is worse than removing control structures and only allowing goto |
| 14:36 |
est |
ofc dont abuse anything. even gotos have some meaning somewhere if you dont want to open a loop for nothing |
| 14:36 |
Zeno` |
exio4, subclassing just once is not all that bad |
| 14:36 |
exio4 |
subtyping is different |
| 14:37 |
Zeno` |
gotos in C and C++ are not long jumps so they're not so bad if used appropriately |
| 14:37 |
exio4 |
I don't mind subtyping even though it's typing rules are complex |
| 14:37 |
est |
ok thats too much c++ for me, I have never properly learnt it :) |
| 14:37 |
Zeno` |
exceptions... nearly always used incorrectly |
| 14:37 |
est |
better an exception than an assert |
| 14:38 |
exio4 |
btw Zeno`, about lambdas, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/network/networkpacket.cpp this could be using a few lambas abstracting the code reuse |
| 14:38 |
exio4 |
an exception should mean something REALLY BAD happened |
| 14:38 |
Zeno` |
est, assert is nothing like an exception :) |
| 14:38 |
exio4 |
like, textures corrupted, database thread crashed |
| 14:38 |
est |
Zeno`, yes I just wanted to point to your assert fixes |
| 14:38 |
Zeno` |
exio4, unfortunately most (a lot?) of people do not realise that |
| 14:38 |
|
behalebabo joined #minetest |
| 14:38 |
Zeno` |
est, you're a tease |
| 14:38 |
exio4 |
you would throw an exception and "wish luck to anyone suffering that" |
| 14:39 |
exio4 |
that is why I hate python too |
| 14:39 |
exio4 |
the language is built around "welp, anything should throw exceptions if it didn't work like it should" |
| 14:39 |
exio4 |
and I really think nullable types shouldn't be the default :D |
| 14:39 |
est |
thats why lua is so great |
| 14:40 |
est |
i really like the "everything is nil" |
| 14:40 |
Zeno` |
I'm pretty sure there is an article somewhere where Stroustrup talks about where he wished he never added them to the language |
| 14:40 |
exio4 |
exceptions or NULL? |
| 14:40 |
exio4 |
oh |
| 14:40 |
exio4 |
exceptions |
| 14:40 |
Zeno` |
exceptions |
| 14:41 |
exio4 |
anyway, I think exceptions are cool "when allowed", because they allow you to say "something really really bad happened" |
| 14:41 |
jordan4ibanez |
I just don't understand it |
| 14:41 |
jordan4ibanez |
http://paste.ofcode.org/sCerdTzzrg2TdhkHU9waEM |
| 14:41 |
exio4 |
right now the code I am working on uses exceptions when invariants that should be mantained by the database are violated |
| 14:41 |
jordan4ibanez |
When I do clear or erase at that point it won't print |
| 14:41 |
exio4 |
aka something is really fkd :P |
| 14:43 |
|
MinetestForFun joined #minetest |
| 14:47 |
Zeno` |
exio4, if people used them for just that there would not be a problem ;) |
| 14:47 |
exio4 |
heh |
| 14:47 |
exio4 |
Zeno`: have you played with Haskell? |
| 14:48 |
exio4 |
(yes, I probably asked this more than once) |
| 14:48 |
Zeno` |
here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5b8855e83c0d1cc7aef21492e7fe862b7d06917e <-- before that exceptions in minetest were even used in place of conditionals! |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
(and there are still some instances where they are used instead of conditionals) |
| 14:49 |
exio4 |
working with exceptions is relatively painful in Haskell |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
exceptions should always result in "cleaning up and aborting the program" |
| 14:49 |
exio4 |
unless you use it _that_ way in a extremly controlled manner |
| 14:49 |
Zeno` |
unfortunately most people don't realise that |
| 14:50 |
Zeno` |
I think proper exception handling is called... fail semantics? |
| 14:50 |
exio4 |
Zeno`: I am a fan on specific datatypes like Maybe for this |
| 14:50 |
exio4 |
data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a |
| 14:50 |
Zeno` |
that commit I pasted above increased performance by about 200% |
| 14:50 |
SylvieLorxu |
Zeno`: For what it's worth, there are languages where catching exceptions is considered "good practice" as opposed of using if/else, like Python |
| 14:51 |
SylvieLorxu |
But I think exceptions are also a lot cheaper in Python |
| 14:51 |
SylvieLorxu |
In most languages, they're expensive |
| 14:51 |
exio4 |
they aren't |
| 14:51 |
exio4 |
they're cheap if you don't throw them |
| 14:52 |
|
CraigyDavi joined #minetest |
| 14:52 |
exio4 |
still, most things in Python can throw exceptions because the language is based around idiot things like broken scoping |
| 14:53 |
Zeno` |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coding_by_exception ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-pattern ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exception_handling#Termination_semantics |
| 14:53 |
exio4 |
sowwy I just don't like Pyton |
| 14:54 |
Zeno` |
termination semantics is the term I was looking for |
| 14:54 |
exio4 |
Python * |
| 14:54 |
|
luizrpgluiz joined #minetest |
| 14:54 |
exio4 |
I don't really mind a performance hit if it makes the code easier to work with |
| 14:54 |
exio4 |
exceptions are just "I have no idea where this is gonna end doing anything" |
| 14:54 |
luizrpgluiz |
hi all |
| 14:54 |
jordan4ibanez |
I used to think that way |
| 14:54 |
jordan4ibanez |
Now I live in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER |
| 14:55 |
Zeno` |
a performance hit is ok if used properly. Using exceptions in place of conditionals is not |
| 14:55 |
Zeno` |
also if the loop has to execute in < 60ms of course a 200% performance hit (or more!) is not ok at all |
| 14:55 |
est |
______init_____ |
| 14:56 |
Zeno` |
I think it was more than 200% in fact. I wish I'd kept my profiles. It was ridiculous the amount of stack unwinding being done |
| 14:57 |
Zeno` |
I also don't think if (getNode() == OK) {} is much harder to understand than try { getNode(); } catch sfjskjfs {} |
| 14:58 |
Zeno` |
if people have problems with if and if else then... *shrug* :D |
| 14:58 |
luizrpgluiz |
but performance depends largely on computer |
| 14:59 |
Zeno` |
luizrpgluiz, not in the case of exceptions |
| 14:59 |
Zeno` |
if an exception has to be caught then the stack must be unwound for every instance where that exception is caught |
| 14:59 |
Zeno` |
well, it actually has to unwind to find where it's caught as well |
| 15:00 |
|
Elinvention joined #minetest |
| 15:00 |
Zeno` |
in the case of "ok the program is going to terminate after the exception is thrown" it's not an issue |
| 15:01 |
Zeno` |
which is why I don't really have a problem with termination semantics for exceptions (but even then they're not really necessary) |
| 15:02 |
est |
they are important for example when you have a client server model where the clients are people that don't know the server is offline now |
| 15:02 |
luizrpgluiz |
in my case, my home computer is an Intel Celeron D 512 mb ram and S3 ProSavage3 |
| 15:02 |
Zeno` |
it's the "resumable semantics" that seem to be so prevalent in C++ that are a real performance killer (and stupid at the same time) |
| 15:02 |
|
Ataron joined #minetest |
| 15:03 |
Zeno` |
est, there is no other way to tell the client they're offline? |
| 15:03 |
Zeno` |
err, that the server is offline |
| 15:03 |
* Zeno` |
looks under the hood of exceptions. Hmm, what's this I see. A solution! |
| 15:03 |
Zeno` |
heheh |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
anyway, I am actually asleep so I dunno why I'm typing |
| 15:04 |
est |
lol |
| 15:04 |
exio4 |
Zeno`: sleep then <3 |
| 15:04 |
Zeno` |
I *am* asleep |
| 15:05 |
Zeno` |
I've been asleep for an hour at least |
| 15:05 |
est |
sleep well |
| 15:05 |
Zeno` |
I'm the only one here who types in their sleep? |
| 15:06 |
AnotherBrick |
You're not really typing. This whole chat is your nightmare |
| 15:06 |
Zeno` |
Surely I'm not the only one |
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| 15:07 |
Zeno` |
Unless I am the Highlander (There can be only one!). I suspect I'm not though |
| 15:07 |
Zeno` |
actually, I'm gonna watch that movie right now |
| 15:07 |
Zeno` |
O/ |
| 15:07 |
AnotherBrick |
When I type being asleep comes out something likeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <- that |
| 15:07 |
Zeno` |
:) |
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ekem |
<luizrpgluiz> in my case, my home computer is an Intel Celeron D 512 mb ram and S3 ProSavage3 lol wat |
| 16:33 |
ekem |
im checking my computing privilege so hard right nwo |
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| 17:24 |
Krock |
Howdy, cowboys? |
| 17:31 |
AnotherBrick |
how badly size of world database file is affecting server performance? i understand that it depends on tons of factors, like, HDD you use, RAM you have, etc.. |
| 17:32 |
Krock |
an niternet conection would be useful aswell |
| 17:32 |
Krock |
*internet |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
AnotherBrick: generally the size of a map/database won't affect performance at all |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
the engine does not load the whole map into memory, so RAM is only a function of things like the mods you run, and whether or not the engine has bugs that result in increased RAM usage |
| 17:33 |
Krock |
VanessaE, well, a 1 MB map might be faster than a 1 GB map (but only when looking at reading speed) |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
disk storage is purely a function of what you store there, including the aforementioned map. |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
Krock: well yeah but I doubt you'll see a 1MB map in practice :P |
| 17:33 |
Krock |
VanessaE, yes and the 1 MB-map server will be much slower because the players keep genreating more and more areas |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
(smallest maps tend to be a hundred or so megs) |
| 17:34 |
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| 17:34 |
Krock |
the database size depends on the amount of mods |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE |
Krock: not necessarily in either case :) |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja's creative server doesn't have many mods, and it uses flat mapgen |
| 17:34 |
Krock |
s/mods/different placed nodes/ |
| 17:35 |
AnotherBrick |
thanks a lot Vanessa and Krock! |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE |
yeah, that much is true |
| 17:35 |
Krock |
np, I love to confuse people |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE |
AnotherBrick: the biggest concern you should have is CPU usage |
| 17:35 |
Krock |
I hope I succeed |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE |
and that comes from complex mods e.g. mesecons, technic, pipewroks |
| 17:35 |
VanessaE |
works* |
| 17:36 |
ShadowNinja |
Size depends on: backend, space explored, regularity (compressability) of map, maybe more. |
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| 18:43 |
Carnaxus |
'Allo everyone. Just wondering if a mobile version of Minetest is planned? |
| 18:43 |
sfan5 |
we do have an android version |
| 18:44 |
sfan5 |
it's a bit buggy though |
| 18:44 |
jordan4ibanez |
a bit |
| 18:44 |
sfan5 |
http://minetest.net/download#android |
| 18:44 |
Carnaxus |
I'll be gentle. |
| 18:47 |
Carnaxus |
You're probably all going to laugh at me, but I've never installed a non-PlayStore app before. Are there any extra steps I need to take beyond unzipping it? |
| 18:47 |
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Carnaxus |
? |
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| 18:53 |
Calinou |
Carnaxus, unzip using a file manager, then run the .apk |
| 18:53 |
Calinou |
you may need to enable Unknown sources in the Security settings of your device |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
Minetest is not (yet?) available in F-Droid either |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
but still, check F-Droid out, because it's a very useful store |
| 18:54 |
Calinou |
https://f-droid.org |
| 18:55 |
Carnaxus |
Thanks! |
| 18:55 |
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| 18:56 |
Krock |
sfan5, do you need a pull to add my script I sent you? |
| 18:57 |
Krock |
well, I couldn't test it so it might be better when you look at it first |
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| 19:15 |
Calinou |
http://www.pnotepad.org/ |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
I did not know about this |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
apparently Windows-only |
| 19:15 |
jojoa1997 |
Windows Master Race |
| 19:16 |
Calinou |
http://wiki.torque3d.org/coder:compiling-in-linux ⇒ looks like Torque 3D is getting official GNU/Linux support |
| 19:17 |
sfan5 |
"in linux" |
| 19:17 |
sfan5 |
Krock: which script |
| 19:18 |
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| 19:18 |
Krock |
sfan5, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2015-03-07#i_4176428 |
| 19:18 |
Calinou |
sfan5, “As of version 3.7, Torque 3D supports being run under Linux Ubuntu†:P |
| 19:18 |
sfan5 |
did you look at my away message |
| 19:19 |
sfan5 |
Krock: it said you should use /msg when you want to be sure i get something |
| 19:19 |
Krock |
sfan5, no, I don't /whois everyone. |
| 19:20 |
sfan5 |
actually |
| 19:20 |
sfan5 |
i don't expect you to |
| 19:20 |
sfan5 |
but this give thing is stupid |
| 19:20 |
Krock |
:3 |
| 19:20 |
Krock |
However, what do you think about it? |
| 19:21 |
sfan5 |
Krock: come to ##minetestbot for a sec please |
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luizrpgluiz |
hi |
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jalcine |
no |
