IRC log for #minetest, 2014-03-06

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01:13	c107	How do I get the latest?
01:13	c107	I'm on Trisquel 6.0, based on Ubuntu Quetzal or whatever.
01:14	PilzAdam	c107, there are PPAs, see minetest.net/download
01:19	c107	PilzAdam: I don't know how to add it...
01:20	PilzAdam	!g how to add ppa
01:20	MinetestBot	PilzAdam: http://askubuntu.com/questions/217179/how-to-add-ppa-repositories
01:21	PilzAdam	bye
01:31	c107	Where is the Ubuntu Minetest PPA?
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05:40	ShadowNinja	sfan5: I'd like to have one repo for the mapper. We could use one of ours, but I'd like to add it to the Minetest organization.
05:41	ShadowNinja	And we need libmtmap and libmtmap-cpp...
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11:41	LazyJ	VanessaE, Sokomine, our MT094 isn't writing to the player files. The file permissions were changed to 777 and even still no new data was written to the files. Any ideas?
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12:44	Megaf	Hi all
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12:58	sfan5	meow
12:58	sfan5	hi everyone
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13:41	sfan5	!tell john_minetest http://i.imgur.com/0ekIBPl.jpg
13:41	MinetestBot	sfan5: yeah, sure, whatever
13:45	CheapSeth	?
13:45	Exio4	!tell exio4 test
13:45	MinetestBot	You can tell that to yourself
13:45	Exio4	aww
13:45	Exio4	!tell exio4 test
13:45	Exio4	k
13:47	CheapSeth	Is he angry or something? I didn't know bots can grow angry.
13:50	Exio4	she*
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13:52	CheapSeth	She? Bots have genders too? x)
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14:08	sfan5	CheapSeth: bots are always female
14:08	* sfan5	pets MinetestBot
14:08	* MinetestBot	purrs
14:11	CheapSeth	Even Harrison Ford?
14:11	CheapSeth	!help
14:11	MinetestBot	https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md
14:13	CheapSeth	!btc EUR
14:13	MinetestBot	1 BTC = 480.8657 â‚¬
14:13	CheapSeth	Wow
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14:19	sfan5	\o/ bitbucket.org went down
14:20	sfan5	this is the first time I'm using bitbucket in 6 months
14:20	sfan5	and what happens: it goes down
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14:24	Exio4	sfan5, add a DOGE <-> BTC <-> VTC <-> LTC converter
14:24	Exio4	:3
14:24	sfan5	Exio4: add a DOGE <-> BTC <-> VTC <-> LTC converter yourself and send a pull request
14:24	sfan5	:3
14:25	Exio4	if the bot wasn't python i would do it
14:25	sfan5	cmon
14:25	sfan5	python isn't that hard
14:25	Exio4	it sucks though
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14:49	CheapSeth	Exio4: what are your arguments (saying python sucks)?
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14:51	Exio4	CheapSeth: its syntax, its weird OOP (that is not that OOP), and a lot of other things
14:51	Exio4	it has nice things anyway
14:51	Exio4	like having nice funcional "things" without fucking up everything
14:54	proller	"""sux"""
14:56	Exio4	what?
14:58	proller	but python is good language for housewifes
14:59	proller	and hydrocephalus
15:00	CheapSeth	Well, it's true, but it's a bit extreme to say it Â«sucksÂ»
15:02	Hirato	Lua reminds me of basic therefor it sucks
15:02	Exio4	lua has a very nice side, you code in the way you want to
15:03	proller	lua sucksier than even python
15:03	Exio4	sucksier?
15:03	Exio4	tf is that?
15:03	Hirato	it's right next to bestest in the oxford dictionary
15:03	proller	if 0 then print('w'..'at??') end
15:13	Exio4	anyway
15:13	Exio4	* > C++
15:13	Hirato	this just in, Exio4 likes PHP
15:14	Hirato	more than C++
15:14	Exio4	PHP shouldn't be a language
15:15	CheapSeth	You seriously think C++ is what the n00bs call a Â«bad langageÂ» or are you trolling?
15:15	Hirato	C++ is a pretty horrendous language, especially if you use STL or Boost :p
15:19	CheapSeth	It's complicated, but it doesn't have any equivalent language
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15:24	reactor	bye again
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15:39	Exio4	CheapSeth: because it has everything you might think
15:39	Exio4	it is so bloated it is shit
15:43	CheapSeth	You mean, in the standard library?
15:44	Exio4	the specs itself
15:44	CheapSeth	It doesn't make sense
15:45	harrison	dawn splatters the east like a spittlebug on a honeysuckle vine
15:45	harrison	the day begins with a frothing of memehopperesque fractal insectism
15:45	harrison	insect crew 24 7 365 666
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15:50	sfan5	john_minetest: meow
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16:16	webshinra	Did I hear someone trolling C++?
16:17	reactor	No wonder. People do seem to prefer languages that haven't matured enough to the mature and developed ones.
16:19	webshinra	like hum, using Cobol instead of C ?
16:20	reactor	...more likely Java instead of FORTRAN or C.
16:21	CheapSeth_	I don't understand the problem with C++
16:21	reactor	Oh. And C++, as OOP in general, is overrated.
16:21	CheapSeth_	It was something like "It has everything you might think, it is so bloated it is shit"
16:22	CheapSeth_	I didn't understood
16:22	reactor	System programming = C.
16:22	reactor	Computations = FORTRAN.
16:23	webshinra	not really.
16:23	reactor	...unless you do really need something interpreted.
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16:23	reactor	Why not? Both have matured compilters and tools, and a lot of ready solutions.
16:24	webshinra	yes
16:25	reactor	And hey, they're mostly platform-independent, too. You just need to port the compiler. Jave has the same problem, but writing a virtual machine is probably a more complex task than writing a compiler.
16:25	webshinra	in fact, C does not have real avantage over c++, even for system programming
16:27	webshinra	reactor: and in fact, porting the virtual machine implie porting the compiler :P
16:29	reactor	Includes it, yes.
16:30	reactor	Doubles, if not more, the amount of work.
16:31	webshinra	And a lot of compatibilities-break between version of the JVM
16:33	webshinra	but in fact, java was written to abstract hardware and run the same code on a lot of Âµ-architecture
16:33	webshinra	not really to be portable agaist higtly complex OS
16:35	reactor	So ideally, Java VM should be run on bare metal, and an OS should be developed for running within it?
16:35	reactor	Pff. We do already have a good abstraction layer for our hardware. It's called UNIX.
16:36	sfan5	reactor: some arm cores support running Java, this technique is called 'Jazelle'
16:38	reactor	...but in UNIX, programs are run on the actual hardware, which varies. Still, if whatever the program is can be compiled, why not?
16:40	webshinra	in fact, praticly no-one is actualy running UNIX.
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16:43	webshinra	but, reactor if the question is Â« Is java a good language for video game programming Â» the answer is Â«probably notÂ» :p
16:45	reactor	I wonder for what it's good, at all.
16:45	reactor	Whatever uses it, causes problems.
16:48	webshinra	10 years ago, I would have disagree :p
16:49	webshinra	but not anymore
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17:01	jsnmtth	Are you having to program in java today john_minetest?
17:03	jsnmtth	That is a strange one.
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17:06	jsnmtth	Are you working on a project with it?
17:07	Calinou	<john_minetest> java is a useless language. It is even more useless than useless languages.
17:07	Calinou	because everyone has the time to do C++. (sarcasm)
17:07	jsnmtth	lol
17:08	Calinou	it has many more cool features though
17:08	jsnmtth	We use java to break out of the browser sandbox and control hardware on the client ...
17:08	jsnmtth	That and to integrate with people that don't understand their own software enough to support it.
17:10	jsnmtth	What are the limits of the mintest world? I noticed it is significantly deeper than I expected it to be.
17:11	jsnmtth	How about horizontally?
17:12	jsnmtth	Ohh ... I see, is there work being done to expand it?
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17:16	us`0gb	I don't think any work is being done to expand it. Most people seem to figure that amount of space is enough. No one even reaches the edges unless they specifically try to do so.
17:17	PenguinDad	nore worked on something like that
17:19	proller	https://github.com/Novatux/minetest/tree/unlimited-map
17:20	kahrl	it wouldn't have made sense to expand it at all previously because the floating point errors would make the game unplayable if you're far from the center
17:20	kahrl	(if you've seen far lands or bust you know what those are)
17:20	proller	ÑˆÐµ Ñ„Ð´ÐºÑƒÑ„Ð²Ð½ Ð°ÑˆÑ‡ÑƒÐ²
17:20	proller	it already fxed
17:20	kahrl	indeed, that's why "recently"
17:20	kahrl	previously*
17:20	proller	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/062de11b4cff30861dd4e9eb56f131d821f34b51
17:21	kahrl	yep
17:21	proller	and need to broke all protocols and formats for it
17:21	kahrl	there are more problems though, like coordinate computations in lua
17:22	kahrl	those can't be fixed as easily
17:22	jsnmtth	I can't access that repo because "git-upload-pack not found", but thank you so much for the info.
17:22	proller	make c++ functions with lua api for this computations
17:23	kahrl	proller: uh, what protocols were broken?
17:23	kahrl	I don't see those touched in the commit at all
17:23	proller	incompatible anything
17:23	proller	when coords will be in int32
17:25	Exio4	if you really want an 'infinite world', you'll need to use chunks with int64 blocks inside and then shit like that
17:25	kahrl	still not infinite :P
17:25	Exio4	yeah
17:25	VanessaE	didn't I advocate for a "just go for overkill and be done with it" like, almost 2 years ago? :P
17:25	jsnmtth	Exio4: That was what I was thinking. I'm not super familier with mintest and has assumed that was how it was done.
17:26	kahrl	you could use bigints on a turing machine's infinite tape
17:26	Exio4	but the best you could get would be cordinates for chunks, with x = 0 first chunk, x = 1 second chunk in the x axis.. etc, and that each chunk has ... a hell lot of blocks inside
17:26	Exio4	and each block has 16x16x16 nodes
17:26	Jordach	Exio4, you mean a foruth dimension table
17:26	Exio4	somehow like that
17:27	Exio4	but with added dimensiones
17:27	Exio4	and more
17:27	Exio4	AND MORE SO WE HAVE REAL INFINITE WORLDS
17:27	Exio4	inb4 25gb per block
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17:28	jsnmtth	Is the entire world generation on initialization currently?
17:28	webshinra	what's the voxel representation in minetest?
17:28	VanessaE	no
17:28	webshinra	i mean, the data structure
17:28	Exio4	"on initialization"?
17:28	VanessaE	the world is generated in realtime, as you explore it
17:28	Exio4	oh
17:28	Exio4	pre-generating the world
17:28	jsnmtth	When I create and load a new world... does it do the procedural calculations on-load, or does it dynamicaly generates parts of the world as it is explored?
17:30	webshinra	https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace
17:31	webshinra	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_%28programming_language%29
17:32	VanessaE	kahrl: did you see sfan5's patches to the C++ mapper?
17:32	VanessaE	he's trying to make it leveldb-capable
17:33	Calinou	webshinra French spotted
17:33	sfan5	s/trying/succeded/
17:33	VanessaE	(and perhaps add some abstraction for the libmtmap thing too)
17:33	sfan5	kahrl: https://github.com/sfan5/minetest-mapper-cpp
17:33	VanessaE	oh he's here \o/ )
17:33	sfan5	VanessaE: abstraction is done already
17:33	webshinra	Calinou: french speaker at last.
17:33	sfan5	but I may need to change some thing for libmtmap
17:33	sfan5	libmtmap would make sqlite3 slower
17:33	VanessaE	cool
17:33	VanessaE	guess I missed the memo :)
17:34	sfan5	(because I need to get blocks between some numbers)
17:35	VanessaE	sfan5: there's one glitch in the C++ mapper that would need fixed some day: if the map database is open and has a read (or write?) lock on it, the mapper aborts that section and writes a white stripe to the image at that point
17:35	proller	us`0gb, on road server road built to 25000+ , no problem to reach 31k
17:36	VanessaE	(I think the python mapper just keeps trying to read the locked-out blocks until it succeeds, hence it never has those "holes" in the map)
17:36	sfan5	VanessaE: didn't https://github.com/sfan5/minetest-mapper-cpp/commit/c497397111451ac09d015b43560d3fdf0be79c70 fix that?
17:36	VanessaE	AH
17:36	VanessaE	I didn't see that either
17:36	VanessaE	told you I didn't get the memo :D
17:37	sfan5	iqualfragile pointed me to that commit in mireq's repo
17:37	us`0gb	proller: Okay, my bad then.
17:37	sfan5	I didn't send you a memo
17:37	sfan5	there is nothing to (not) get :P
17:37	sfan5	s/:P//
17:37	us`0gb	That's a pretty high road though. It doesn't seem practical for transportation.
17:38	VanessaE	nice
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17:53	proller	int32 okay for planet-size map, int64 for galaxy map, but need custom gravity points
17:53	jsnmtth	proller: That is an amazing idea!
17:56	proller	us`0gb, 0,0,0 start, goes to 25k by x, top point at 11k by y, you can run with fast to end (20+ minutes)
17:57	us`0gb	Ah, running. I always forget that exists as you need a privilege for that.
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17:58	rubenwardy	!title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8I6qt_Z0Cg#t=186
17:58	MinetestBot	rubenwardy: Rocky's Printer - Eye of the tiger on a dot matrix printer [HD] - YouTube
17:58	rubenwardy	They use an old printer to play "eye of the tiger".
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17:59	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
17:59	proller	us`0gb, on this server it enabled by default
18:00	proller	and it have awesome landscape ;)
18:00	us`0gb	Hello PilzAdam!
18:00	us`0gb	Also goodbye though. I'm off on a job hunt.
18:00	rubenwardy	Hi all
18:00	rubenwardy	Hi PilzAdam.
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18:40	MinetestBot	GIT: CiaranG commited to minetest/minetest: Stop wasting time in abm - performance improvement db98ef6b45 2014-03-06T10:18:36-08:00 http://git.io/PG6wKw
18:43	harrison	in Soviet Union job hunts YOU
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21:25	sfan5	VanessaE: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1zq46b/if_you_could_insert_a_single_rubber_duck_into_any/cfvycyy?context=3
21:26	VanessaE	haha
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21:26	sfan5	here's another one: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1zq46b/if_you_could_insert_a_single_rubber_duck_into_any/cfvz39u?context=2
21:27	sfan5	or this one http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1zq46b/if_you_could_insert_a_single_rubber_duck_into_any/cfvxt84?context=2
21:27	Sokomine	hm. rubberduck races for mt oceans? :-)
21:28	sfan5	http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1zq46b/if_you_could_insert_a_single_rubber_duck_into_any/cfvyswe?context=3
21:28	Sokomine	github seems to come with support for a wiki for repros. is there a way to host images for documentation as well? imagur does not work for me
21:29	Jordach	Sokomine, enable JS
21:30	Sokomine	no, sorry. no js
21:30	Jordach	:P
21:30	sfan5	oh hey look
21:31	sfan5	pixiv redesigned their page
21:31	* Jordach	isn;t going to host shit for people
21:31	Sokomine	understandable. although it's not "shit" but images that document mods
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21:40	specing	VanessaE: how fast is the mese sand pneumatic tube supposed to work?
21:41	VanessaE	should be within a matter of a second or so if the dropped item is within the control radius
21:41	VanessaE	mese sand tubes have a radius you can configure with a right-click; not sure what the default is
21:42	VanessaE	depends though on how much else your server is doing e.g. other sources of lag
21:46	specing	does the item have to be dropped?
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21:53	specing	the shipment went through the autocrafter
21:53	specing	and flew away
21:54	specing	proller: ^
21:54	specing	Ah it reappeared in there
21:54	specing	weird
21:54	specing	graphics glitch?
21:54	proller	i dont know
21:54	proller	btw tbm installed!
21:54	proller	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4015
21:55	specing	AWWWWCOOOOOOOOOOOL
22:00	proller	also i want enable flowing dirt
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22:05	TUB	hello
22:05	TUB	anyone familiar with the luacontroller?
22:05	ShadowNinja	TUB: Yep.
22:06	ShadowNinja	proller: " Do not enable this machine on multiplayer, can be a severe source of grief."
22:06	TUB	great
22:06	TUB	what is ocal sda_port = "c";?
22:06	TUB	*local
22:06	proller	COOL!
22:07	specing	proller: k, all tunnels have stone roofs I think
22:07	proller	ShadowNinja, fix ipv6 server !!!!!!!!
22:07	proller	specing, but some have sand-dirt
22:07	ShadowNinja	TUB: It creates a local string variable named sda_port and assigns "c" to it.
22:08	TUB	ohh
22:08	ShadowNinja	proller: What's the issue with it? You were trying a IPv4 address, right?
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22:09	proller	by default ipv6_server broken
22:09	proller	it cant bind to ::
22:10	ShadowNinja	proller: With bind_address unset and IPv6 enabled what does it do?
22:10	specing	proller: oh right
22:10	specing	proller: have to fix those
22:11	specing	proller: just flowing dirt or sand too?
22:11	proller	and sand
22:15	specing	hmm, then more problems
22:15	specing	but sand is ok, sand can be used to make glass
22:17	proller	btw at -30500 sand transforming to glass ;)
22:21	specing	proller: solved one sand cave in problem
22:21	proller	solve it when it starts flow
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22:28	proller	but after restart
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22:38	TUB	what is mem.sda_prev = false;
22:38	TUB	?
22:39	PilzAdam	TUB, what?
22:40	TUB	what is mem.sda_prev = false;
22:40	TUB	in luacontroller?
22:41	PilzAdam	ah, you are talking about Lua controllers
22:41	TUB	yes
22:41	TUB	i am not familiar with lua syntax
22:42	PilzAdam	is it a syntax or semantic question?
22:44	TUB	uh both
22:44	PilzAdam	syntactially it just means, "set the field sda_prev of the table mem to false"
22:44	TUB	so what is mem?
22:44	PilzAdam	dunno, I havent used the Lua controller in a while
22:45	PilzAdam	probably some kind of memory of the controller, to store stuff
22:46	TUB	ohh
22:46	TUB	ok thanks
22:46	TUB	sda_prev is a variable?
22:47	PilzAdam	yea, one field in the table
22:47	TUB	ohh
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22:48	specing	proller: I'd rather do it before it starts flowing down
22:49	specing	proller: I already fixed 3 leaks
22:49	specing	Im near 8000 moving forward and fixing
22:49	specing	Dont turn on flowdirt before its fixed or its going to be ugly
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23:00	specing	another leak fixed
23:03	jsnmtth	How do I see my Frames Per Second?
23:16	PilzAdam	jsnmtth, F5
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23:21	jsnmtth	PilzAdam: thx ... I found a lot of conflicting information on the net, but nothing that worked.
23:22	PilzAdam	it was previously shown in the window title, but some weird window managers couldnt handle that
23:24	jsnmtth	Yeah ... I saw the forum posts stating that it was removed.
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