IRC log for #minetest, 2013-12-07

Time	Nick	Message
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00:32	PilzAdam	bye
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03:30	ShadowNinja	sfan5: It would be more reasonable for the times to be in UTC.
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03:44	MinetestBot	GIT: ShadowNinja commited to minetest/minetest: Fix paralax occlusion setting 96f753a108 2013-12-06T19:42:09-08:00 http://git.io/PdDK0Q
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04:03	MinetestBot	GIT: kaeza commited to minetest/minetest_game: Fix player skin changing code. ba4c80644e 2013-12-06T19:45:17-08:00 http://git.io/BqPCLA
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04:24	fireglow	hi
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04:25	kaeza	hi fireglow
04:26	fireglow	hey :)
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04:46	OldCoder	howdy
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04:48	fireglow	just installed it, runs remarkably smooth on FreeBSD with a passive graphics card
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04:55	anunakki	OldCoder,
04:55	anunakki	hello there
04:55	anunakki	i have to speak with you
04:56	OldCoder	I am here
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05:37	thefamilygrog66	howdy
05:39	VanessaE	hi
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05:46	VanessaE	sigh
05:47	VanessaE	I wondered how long it was gonna be before that stupid wireless card finally gave up the ghost.
05:52	thefamilygrog66	the ghost of wireless past
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05:52	VanessaE	heh
05:53	thefamilygrog66	holy crap, I just got all puritanical on the forums
05:53	thefamilygrog66	haha
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07:15	sfan5	hm
07:15	sfan5	I still wonder what happend last night
07:17	Exio4	that sounds bad
07:17	sfan5	things not working was probably my hdd failing
07:17	sfan5	but why did everything crash with sigbus?
07:18	sfan5	>You can get a SIGBUS from an unaligned access if you turn on the unaligned access trap, but normally that's off on an x86.
07:19	sfan5	I don't think /usr/bin/clear does that
07:23	sfan5	I think I should do a backup
07:24	sfan5	oh yay, pulseaudio is broken
07:27	Exio4	pulseaudio is always broken
07:27	Exio4	jackd > pulseaudio
07:29	sfan5	sound does not work
07:34	sfan5	oh nice, it doesn't find my soundcard anymore
07:35	VanessaE	sfan5: damn, you got probs.
07:35	sfan5	I think I should do a backup right now
07:35	sfan5	I should get a new laptop, but I want a new android phone first :-/
07:37	sfan5	connects to networks smb share
07:45	sfan5	stupid gvfs!
07:45	sfan5	the root user can't use the gvfs thingys of other users
07:51	VanessaE	> needs new laptop, wants new phone.
07:51	VanessaE	> solution: get a new tablet? :)
07:53	VanessaE	ok maybe not.
07:54	sfan5	nah
07:56	sfan5	who the fuck programmed this gvfs shit
07:57	VanessaE	the same idiot who programmed pulseaudio? :)
07:57	VanessaE	I'm serious
07:58	VanessaE	I swear, sometimes I think Linux is suffering from industrial sabotage or something
07:58	sfan5	I mean WTH root can't access everything or what?
07:59	VanessaE	I know
07:59	sfan5	for gvfs root is like admin on windows
07:59	VanessaE	it's always been that way with,.gvfs
07:59	VanessaE	.gvfs*
07:59	VanessaE	and I haven't the foggiest clue why
07:59	sfan5	this is my fucking system and I want root to access everything it wants
08:00	VanessaE	and if you ls -la the file it's like all ?'s for the perms
08:00	VanessaE	s/file/entry/
08:00	VanessaE	(I forget if it's a file or a dir or pipe or what)
08:00	sfan5	ls: cannot access /run/user/1000/gvfs: Permission denied
08:00	VanessaE	ls -lad
08:01	sfan5	same
08:01	VanessaE	at this point I'd probably chattr that fucker and delete it, then. :P
08:01	VanessaE	but idk if that'll break anything
08:02	sfan5	I'll just setup nfs on my pi to make a backup
08:02	sfan5	wait, no
08:02	VanessaE	dd.
08:02	VanessaE	ghost it to another disk
08:02	VanessaE	then pick it apart after a clean install
08:03	sfan5	sudo tar -cvf /dev/stdout . \| cat > /run/usr/1000/gvfs/<stuff>/backup.tar.bz2
08:03	sfan5	that may actually work
08:03	VanessaE	"I saw we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
08:03	VanessaE	say*
08:04	VanessaE	maybe
08:04	kahrl	why use gvfs intead of mount.cifs?
08:05	sfan5	yep it does
08:05	kahrl	instead*
08:05	VanessaE	kahrl: because gnome?
08:05	kahrl	someone still uses gnome?
08:05	VanessaE	why use pulseaudio on Linux when ALSA already does everything?
08:07	VanessaE	kahrl: doesn't Linus? :)
08:07	sfan5	my backup is running, time for breakfast
08:07	us}0gb	QEMU doesn't seem to have sound for me under Alsa. It also throws errors.
08:07	VanessaE	sfan5: btw, why not rsync?
08:08	sfan5	VanessaE: I'd like to have it in one file
08:08	VanessaE	fair enough
08:10	sfan5	saving it with 1MB/s is going to take a while
08:10	sfan5	maybe I shouldn't use WiFi for that..
08:10	VanessaE	better that than dial-up...
08:10	sfan5	but our router only has 1 LAN port...
08:11	VanessaE	time to buy a switch
08:11	sfan5	I have a DIR-100 lying around
08:12	sfan5	screw this, I'll just backup directly to another HDD
08:12	VanessaE	any idea what failed?
08:12	VanessaE	(bad sectors? bad chips? dust?)
08:32	sfan5	dust? in a laptop?
08:33	sfan5	VanessaE: what do you mean by bad chips?
08:33	VanessaE	you'd be surprised.
08:33	VanessaE	burnt-out electronics
08:33	sfan5	it doesn't smell like magic smoke
08:33	VanessaE	e.g. a controller chip on the drive or so
08:33	sfan5	when the backup is finished I'll take a look at the HDD
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08:56	arsdragonfly1	just updated my advanced_market mod
08:56	arsdragonfly1	check it out folks
08:56	arsdragonfly1	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7253
08:57	Peacock	i dont think too many people are awake yet :P
08:58	arsdragonfly1	but it's 16:58 here
08:59	arsdragonfly1	so it is the life in far east :-P
08:59	Peacock	hehe, 4am east coast, 1am west coast and early morning in EU :P
08:59	Peacock	so you must be somewhere in the pacific
08:59	Peacock	or far east
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09:16	VanessaE	hi
09:17	Peacock	no "hello unicorns", you some sort of racist?
09:17	Peacock	:P
09:23	Peacock	unicorns = horny ponies?
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09:34	Peacock	sweet, new version of space engineers out, maybe now i can use my mining ships lol
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10:45	sfan5	wow, it is not backing up since 2 hours
10:46	sfan5	now*
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10:52	manuel_	hi ich brauche hilfe wenn ich bei minetest einen block abbaue oder platziere laggt es
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11:24	specing	Guys
11:24	specing	What do I do if someone stole my name?
11:24	specing	on clip's public server
11:25	Jordach	make a new name
11:25	VanessaE	contact the admin
11:25	specing	the imposter seems to have stole my stash, too
11:26	specing	Any clip admins here?
11:26	VanessaE	someone got your password then?
11:26	reactor	specing: ask admins' help.
11:26	specing	VanessaE: I had no password
11:26	reactor	Pwned.
11:26	specing	:S
11:26	specing	I thought that password was for servers
11:26	reactor	No passwords. Smells like human nature.
11:26	specing	for joining passworded servers
11:26	VanessaE	that's bad.
11:27	specing	other games have public key auth, I assumed it was the same here
11:27	VanessaE	always always always always always always always always always always always use a password
11:27	VanessaE	minetest does not.
11:27	specing	Nobody told me that :(
11:27	VanessaE	how would it be pubkey auth if you had no opportunity to trade keys?
11:28	VanessaE	derp :)
11:28	specing	VanessaE: Quake
11:28	VanessaE	never played it
11:28	VanessaE	not online that is
11:28	specing	Quake uses pubkey auth
11:29	VanessaE	no matter.
11:29	specing	most Linux games are quake-based, so I got used to that feature
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11:29	VanessaE	you'll have to contact the admin and have him assign you a new password and see if he can give you your stuff back
11:37		theTroy joined #minetest
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11:39	reactor	But once again, pwned.
11:40		RealBadAngel joined #minetest
11:44	reactor	Dangerous! In the butt!
11:44		Peacock joined #minetest
11:44	Peacock	in the butt?
11:45	* Peacock	walks slowly out of the room
11:45	reactor	That's a quote.
11:45	reactor	It's fine not to appreciate quotes.
11:47	VanessaE	all five of mine do.
11:48	sapier	if there's nothin to protect on that server why use a password?
11:48	reactor	Identity.
11:48	VanessaE	be...cause maybe you want to ..
11:48	VanessaE	yes
11:48	VanessaE	precisely that.
11:49	reactor	Identity is priceless.
11:49	reactor	Once someone steals it, they can make you look like a complete asshole.
11:50	Peacock	i found the opposite is true lol
11:50	Peacock	well known people will take on other names to grief other people's servers
11:50	Peacock	geoip was pretty helpful in figuring out who they were lol
11:50	sapier	usually I'm more concerned about my passwords then about my identity if I join a minetest server ;-)
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11:54	Peacock	if i dont stop sneezing soon i'll become dehydrated :/
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11:57	Peacock	https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7938329856/h2A023DEA/
11:57	* Jordach	attacks Peacock with a fuckload of feather pillows
11:59	VanessaE	ah photoshop... where would we be without obvious copy&paste? :)
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12:00	* VanessaE	fades...
12:02	Peacock	i suppose i should put up the bloody christmas tree today
12:02	reactor	Don't kill trees for that.
12:02	Peacock	you kidding, i have a fake one and even then the cat still nibbles at it
12:02	Peacock	a real tree wouldn't last a week
12:03	VanessaE	who wants a christmas tree covered in blood? ew.
12:03	Peacock	the fun part is figuring out which plugs are on which breakers here
12:07	VanessaE	"the second thing at christmas that's such a pain to me: rigging up the lights [...]" "what? we have no more extension cords!?" "Get a flashlight, we blew a fuse!" "one light goes out, they all go out!" "Now why the hell are they blinking!?" "fine, you're so smart, YOU rig up the lights!"
12:08	* Jordach	doesn't have that issue
12:08	reactor	hristmass illumination is a waste of energy.
12:08	* Jordach	is getting USB lights to drop around the monitor
12:08	reactor	s/hr/Chr/
12:09	* Jordach	made a forum post with a .svg image embedded
12:09	VanessaE	most of the "2nd day of" quotes from "12 Pains of Christmas", no clue who actually did the song (usually attributed to Bob Rivers)
12:09	reactor	Why not spend those money on new hardware?
12:10	VanessaE	ok, I'm off to bed
12:10	VanessaE	brain crash
12:10	VanessaE	night
12:10	Jordach	<VanessaE> I/O error reading /dev/brain: device not ready
12:10	Jordach	<VanessaE> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
12:11	reactor	Nighty.
12:13	Peacock	well there's no shortage of energy here for christmas lights lol and it's certainly not expensive enough that i could buy hardware with the difference
12:13	reactor	Candles are a fire hazard.
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12:16	Jordach	$5 that freeminer dies out
12:16	Jordach	we've already established the MESE standard
12:17	Peacock	lol why do people have such a hardon for minetest forks? its not like anyone bitches when mods get the same treatment
12:19	Peacock	mods don't have communities but they have users, and every time it's forked thats part of your feedback and bugtesting that goes too
12:20	Peacock	but either way, the principals behind both are the same, it's open source, so tough shit if you dont like the forks lol
12:21	Peacock	and if you're worried about the community splitting up then perhaps you should take it as a hint that a sizeable portion of the community wasn't being serviced by the current engine with its design and direction
12:22	Peacock	either way I see no benefit to forcing devs to work together on one and only one engine if they spend more time arguing about their code than writing it
12:22	Peacock	people go all the time, surely you must have noticed
12:23	Peacock	whether they go to work on a fork or just go, whats the difference?
12:23	Peacock	the really good devs have the same rights as the noobs
12:24	Peacock	and frankly, it's more your problem than theirs
12:26	Peacock	either way, im pretty sure proller would have just given up on minetest at some point if things had kept going the way they were, at least this way freeminer can try different shit and if it works itt'l be ported to MT
12:27	Peacock	usually when you have a problem you try to solve it, you can either become a dev for MT to make up the difference, or bitch about freeminer as you seem to have chosen to do, though i dont know what benefit that brings
12:28	Peacock	if anything it makes you/this community just seem bitter about it
12:32	Jordach	http://xkcd.com/838/
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12:33	reactor	Lol.
12:36	thardin	:D
12:42	cisoun	wth someone ported minetest to android Oo
12:42	cisoun	oh that's xyz
12:42	cisoun	damn
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12:53	Peacock	well you did when it came out, and every time i've logged in here in the last week there's always someone saying something negative about it, which might explain why i've spent more time playing Space Engineers this week
12:54	specing	Ingame mod lister doesen't work?
12:54	specing	Says page 1/0
12:54	specing	Ah now it does
12:56	specing	Oh, now it even supplies pics
12:58	specing	I see a lot of mods listed in the server lister are missing in the ingame mod selector
12:58	specing	What is up?
13:05	iqualfragile	specing: there was an update, now thumbnails are used
13:05	iqualfragile	instead of sending a hd picture and then rescaling it to 120x80
13:06	iqualfragile	the mods listed on the website but not ingame do not have any approved versions, so it would be useless to display those
13:06	iqualfragile	Peacock: freeminer is a waste of time
13:06	Peacock	see that bitterness i was talking about ...
13:08	iqualfragile	what bitternes?
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13:09	iqualfragile	just merging all the pullrequests is a bad idea
13:09	iqualfragile	and just forking the project over minor differences is a waste of time
13:10	Peacock	well im sorry your precious engine got forked :P but i'd suggest you do what modders and distros have done and just deal with it :-)
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13:12	iqualfragile	Peacock: it is not my enigne and obviously you are allowed to fork it, but i just do not see the reason
13:13	Peacock	well thats the wonderful thing about open source, you don't have to give a reason. Think i understand why there are dozens of ubuntu flavours when you can just install those packages from minimal ubuntu? hell no lol
13:19	Peacock	well i dont really get how someone can be pro-opensource but anti-forks, isn't that basically software dictatorship? kinda like vendor lock-in
13:20	Peacock	that's an oversimplification and an inaccurate one at that
13:21	Peacock	there are really no rules about forking, you should read the licenses you people make modders user lol
13:21	iqualfragile	Peacock: there is something wrong with forks: they waste effort
13:21	iqualfragile	so there needs to be a reason to fork
13:22	iqualfragile	otherwise its just a ego-thing
13:22	Peacock	where does it say there needs to be a reason to fork?
13:22	jin_xi	you really think they forked for no reason?
13:22	iqualfragile	Peacock: in your head, if you are captable of using logic
13:22	Peacock	and how is it not a waste of effort to instead spend all your time arguing with the current dev team when you can manage your own project instead?
13:23	iqualfragile	Peacock: is there some kind of wiki page or anything listing the reasons for this fork?
13:24	Peacock	im not the one with logic problems :P you people are more pro-open source than I am and even i can't get why you're against one of its most basic concepts (forking)
13:24	iqualfragile	and we have given that argument like 5 times allready
13:24	Peacock	well they are not your resources to waste, it's the person doing the forking and they're entitled to decide where they put their resources
13:25	iqualfragile	so: is there a good reason to fork? can you provide me with good arguments?
13:25	iqualfragile	Peacock: no, you are actually wasting my recources
13:25	Peacock	i dont have to, and neither does proller
13:25	Peacock	send me the bill ;)
13:25	iqualfragile	and you are wasting the recources of every modder
13:26	iqualfragile	because they are required to upload their mod three times
13:26	Peacock	you base on the premise that without a fork proller would be happy to keep waiting for months for a yes/no on his pulls, i think he would have quit pretty soon
13:26	Peacock	and to be honest, he was told to fork or go work on MT classic by more than one member, so it should come as no surprise that that is what happened
13:26	iqualfragile	but you have a point: prollers pull-requests were really dealayed a lot
13:27	iqualfragile	that was because minetest devolopement was slowed don a lot
13:27	Peacock	you're saying you can't reproduce what Minetest Classic offers in Minetest?
13:27	iqualfragile	why didnt he just requested to get write access to minetest?
13:27	Peacock	they removed mods, which you can do with Minetest proper
13:28	Exio4	iqualfragile: the general "dev" was slowed down because proller merging features (some unwanted or WIP) with bug fixes in the same pull requests or commits
13:28	Exio4	and also because hmm/kahrl being busy
13:28	Exio4	isn't MT classic 0.3?
13:29	Exio4	when mods wasn't even a 'real thing'
13:29	Exio4	and just like the modstore was for 0.4.4
13:29	iqualfragile	Exio4: wasnt this later on?
13:30	iqualfragile	didnt he have seperate pullrequests at first
13:30	Peacock	so with proller out of the way MT dev can advance with fewer arguments, proller is happy working on his own thing, i dont see how any of this is bad
13:30	iqualfragile	and then merged them into one gigantic one?
13:30	Exio4	he had like four or five "big pull requests"
13:30	iqualfragile	Peacock: simple: some of the pullrequests were interesting
13:31	iqualfragile	and would have been great in minetest
13:31	Peacock	well then maybe you should have pulled them in a timely manner
13:31	Peacock	(you plural)
13:31	Exio4	when devs told him to split the 'lagfix' he went mad and merged all the pull requests
13:31	Peacock	can hardly be angry at him for not wanting to stand still
13:31	Exio4	because it was next to WIP code
13:33	Exio4	Peacock: it isn't bad tho
13:33	Exio4	it will let proller dev his fork and continue it
13:33	Peacock	and so proller is doing it himself as you say
13:33	iqualfragile	Peacock: oh, wow, i just looked at some of the pull requests
13:33	iqualfragile	the devs had every reason not to merge them
13:34	Peacock	so you agree with the dev team but would still rather keep proller a prisoner here? lol
13:34	reactor	lagfix?
13:35	iqualfragile	Peacock: no, best solution would have been that proller just fixes his pull requests
13:35	Exio4	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/895
13:35	Peacock	you're right that egos are in play here, which is probably why proller gave up fighting with the dev team and went his own way
13:36	iqualfragile	Peacock: there was no fucking reason to fight
13:36	iqualfragile	he could just have fixed his fucking pull requests
13:36	Exio4	he is free to do it
13:36	iqualfragile	they were ugly
13:36	iqualfragile	this whole thing is just a gigantic waset of effort
13:36	hmmmm	proller going his "own way" has nothing to do with egos
13:37	Peacock	well you can either be butthurt about it or go on your merry way and work on MT, if freeminer comes up with anything good ittl surely be ported, license is still lgpl if i recall
13:37	hmmmm	it was simply that he was going his own way the whole while. 95% of his pull requests were to make minetest a better 'game' but not a better engine
13:37	Exio4	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1010
13:37	Exio4	lolwut
13:38	Exio4	thought they were like 15 commits with proper names
13:38	iqualfragile	Exio4: no, that one gives the wrong impression
13:38	iqualfragile	he just raged at one point in time
13:38	iqualfragile	and closed all his pullrequests
13:38	iqualfragile	and then added that monster
13:38	iqualfragile	ignoe the big one
13:38	Peacock	hmmmm but all the people here would rather you guys keep arguing with proller indefinitely
13:38	iqualfragile	look at the smaller ones
13:38	Exio4	i'm just saying proller went against what is the idea of minetest
13:38	iqualfragile	they are realy low quality
13:39	Exio4	iqualfragile: 4-5 commits with two features
13:39	hmmmm	so what do we do, make the engine inflexible and crappier so that we all get along?
13:39	iqualfragile	Exio4: yes, i know
13:39	hmmmm	was the linux kernel written that way?
13:39	iqualfragile	some of those pull requests do not even make too much sense
13:39	iqualfragile	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/980
13:40	Peacock	well i think him having his own fork to work on is the best thing for everyone, but im obviously in the minority on that lol
13:40	Exio4	i
13:40	Exio4	i'm good with it too
13:40	iqualfragile	some others did make sense and were merged like 979 and 983
13:40	Exio4	it means less unwanted features like weather (in its own state)
13:41	Exio4	ehm, i would like 980
13:41	Exio4	because well, null can be used for testing, but he had two features in that pull request
13:42	Exio4	It aims to make the game fun while trading off some bits of perfectionism.
13:42	Exio4	there
13:42	Peacock	i dont personally like proller's features, but i don't need to like them to defend his right to fork and take it in whatever direction he thinks is right
13:42	Exio4	in freeminer's readme
13:42	hmmmm	right, but just because somebody makes some feature doesn't mean we're obligated to merge it
13:43	hmmmm	besides we needed some 'experimental' version like his fork that has all the features that were controverisal
13:43	Exio4	there isn't
13:43	Exio4	he sees minetest as a game, not an engine
13:43	Exio4	and not _game being somewhat "just another game"
13:44	hmmmm	someone was talking about taking out all the weather stuff
13:44	Exio4	inb4 minetest is a game, deal with it
13:44	Exio4	some people was saying that
13:44	Exio4	like, c55 :P
13:44	hmmmm	I can't say I disagree, if it could be reimplemented as a mod
13:44	Peacock	i get the impression people think more would get done if he stuck around, i just think more arguments would be had lol
13:45	Exio4	some things won't ever get merged in minetest/master
13:46	Exio4	some others could, and others should be
13:46	hmmmm	I think the directional volumetric fog thing would've made it in if it didn't abruptly cut off at a low visual horizon
13:47	Exio4	but he mixed most of the features and made performance improvements depend on other changes in a commit that changes weather or features that never will get merged and so
13:47	Peacock	there obviously is a reason if it exists
13:47	hmmmm	those performance improvements didn't really improve performance
13:47	hmmmm	they just throttled throughput on things like ABM and so on
13:47	Exio4	yeah
13:48	Peacock	proller and xyz had their reasons for forking, they may not make sense to you personally, but that doesn't invalidate them
13:48	Exio4	but there was one that made some comments get priorited over other iirc
13:48	Exio4	he had it mixed with other features
13:52	Peacock	dunno, you can like or dislike a fork if you want, what i dont get is attacking someone for the very act of forking
13:54	Peacock	though when people say they hope or expect freeminer to crash and burn, i sense alot of bitterness/hostility in that, so don't tell me it's about prollers' ego :P
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13:55	Peacock	i dont know how it could be more effective, it seems counterproductive from the get-go to have some devs working on an engine and other devs working on a game, from the sae source
13:55	Peacock	*same
13:56		john_minetest left #minetest
13:56	Peacock	closed-minded isn't the same thing as simply not agreeing with you
13:57	hmmmm	this is a recurring pattern
13:57	reactor	Psychology?
13:57	Peacock	circular debates?
13:57	hmmmm	there's something wrong with somebody's pull requests
13:57	hmmmm	they don't get merged
13:57	hmmmm	they get frustrated and quit
13:57	hmmmm	then people talk about how the core devs are useless and minetest never gets anywhere
13:58	hmmmm	prestidigitator, colored lighting, MirkeaKitsune, now proller
13:58	hmmmm	and I'm sure there are more from before I started coming around here
13:58	Peacock	well in every case they're told to fork, and now that it's done people still bitch about it
13:59	Peacock	i think more gets done when time isn't constantly wasted arguing over said pulls
14:02	iqualfragile	hmmmm: i think that there is a reason for this to happen
14:02	iqualfragile	while the pull requests really were low quality
14:03	iqualfragile	there often were no comments on them
14:03	iqualfragile	i have mentioned this some times allready
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14:03	EvergreenTree	o/
14:03	iqualfragile	but: i think it would be best if the minetest-devs would meet every week for example saturdays and either merge or comment on or close 5 pull requests
14:04	iqualfragile	hi EvergreenTree
14:04	Peacock	well perhaps freeminer will perfect weather to such a point where it will in future be something you wanna port to MT, at least this way they get to try
14:04	reactor	EvergreenTree: \o
14:06	sfan5	EvergreenTree: did you know you're a tree?
14:07	Exio4	wow
14:07	Exio4	he is a tree?
14:07	Exio4	and those trees outside are stalking me too...
14:07	iqualfragile	yes, he is the first minetest-playing tree
14:07	EvergreenTree	Gosh, I never thought I was a tree
14:07	Exio4	EvergreenTree: what are you doing here! D:
14:07	EvergreenTree	[\sarcasm]
14:07	* Peacock	tries hard to avoid jokes about having wood
14:07	* EvergreenTree	barks at Peacock
14:07	Peacock	touche
14:08	* iqualfragile	punches EvergreenTree and crafst a pickaxe out of him
14:08	* iqualfragile	collects the leaves to use as fuel later on
14:08	EvergreenTree	Remember that second tree sfan5 planted on me?
14:08	Peacock	wouldn't you have to put a stick up his arse to get a pickaxe?
14:08	EvergreenTree	You knocked that one down
14:09	EvergreenTree	I was beneath it. >:)
14:09	* sfan5	plants a tree on EvergreenTree and puts a kitten on Exio4's head
14:09	EvergreenTree	Peacock, plol
14:09	* iqualfragile	realy is in the need of more wood for his new house and goes on a cutting spree
14:09		kaurdump joined #minetest
14:09	* EvergreenTree	runs
14:09	Exio4	mkdir build && cd build
14:10	Exio4	> build already exists
14:10	Exio4	freeminer pls
14:10	Peacock	pls = please?
14:10	Exio4	yeah
14:10	sfan5	!tell proller you merged tavb_playerlist
14:10	MinetestBot	sfan5: I'll pass that on when proller is around
14:10	Exio4	also https://www.google.com/search?q=gooby+pls
14:10	sfan5	no, no
14:10	sfan5	no
14:10	Exio4	why not sfan5? 8)
14:11	sfan5	sshs to vps and deletes entry from tell.sqlite
14:12	Exio4	:(
14:12	Exio4	the menu is broken
14:13	Peacock	no flapjacks for you
14:13	Exio4	the weather is weird in FM
14:13	kaurdump	i just tried adding simple helicopter mod and it's failing https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6183 any ideas? http://pastebin.com/N8Wmqw3J
14:13	sfan5	MinetestBot: reload tell
14:13	MinetestBot	sfan5: <module 'tell' from '/home/user/mtbot/modules/tell.pyc'> (version: 2013-11-17 18:44:21)
14:14	Peacock	kaur you forgot to rename the mod
14:14	Peacock	(folder)
14:14	kaurdump	i renamed it to heli
14:14	kaurdump	it said [heli] in the post title
14:14	Peacock	...estaccount/minetest/bin/../builtin/misc_register.lua:62: in function 'check_modname_prefix'
14:14	sfan5	!tell proller you merged tab_playerlist2 into freeminer, I didn't finish that feature yet; it segfaults when opening the playerlist (when set_playerlist was used on that player)
14:14	MinetestBot	sfan5: I'll pass that on when proller is around
14:15	kaurdump	what is it supposed to be named?
14:15	Peacock	: Name helicopter:heli does not follow naming conventions: "modname:" or ":" prefix required
14:15	sfan5	name it 'helicopter'
14:15	Peacock	i think it's supposed to be helicopter
14:15	kaurdump	i'l try helicopter
14:15	kaurdump	isn't posting convention [modname]
14:15	kaurdump	?
14:16	sfan5	yes
14:16	kaurdump	k
14:16	sfan5	I changed it in the topic title
14:16	kaurdump	ty
14:17	reactor	Are there more vehicles coming?
14:17	kaurdump	works now, thanks everyone
14:17	Peacock	everyone says welcome
14:18	kaurdump	next question, what's the best way to upgrade to the latest test version? i'm not sure how i have minetest installed but it's in my user directory and i have a .minetest folder (linux install)
14:21	Megaf	!seen Gronx
14:21	MinetestBot	Megaf: gronx was last seen at 2013-11-12 22:20:28 UTC on #minetest
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14:23	kaurdump	the last time i setup a new version of minetest i had to compile it b/c it didn't support 13.10 out of the box. do i still need to do that?
14:23	Exio4	>snowing
14:23	Exio4	>desert
14:23	Exio4	ok
14:24	kaurdump	crazy weather
14:24	Exio4	and snowing though nodes
14:25	Peacock	seems legit
14:27	Exio4	it finally stopped
14:28	Peacock	well i'll be off, must fetch... provisions at the off-license (sure as shit not putting up this tree sober) :P
14:32	reactor	snowing through nodes?
14:33	reactor	Is snow massless particles?
14:35	reactor	It's obviously not. How can it be going through nodes?
14:35	reactor	...assuming nodes is fermionic matter, too.
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15:17	Peacock	well, they only had red ale, looks like we're having a communist party
15:19	Peacock	https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7937345792/h7C7810B5/
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15:28	* EvergreenTree	plants a sapling on sfan5's head
15:29	* EvergreenTree	throws an apple at reactor for no reason
15:29	Peacock	that means you can root his brain w/o sudo
15:29	* sfan5	takes the sapling transforms it into a kitten and puts the kitten next to EvergreenTree
15:29	EvergreenTree	kitten tree? 0_o
15:29	EvergreenTree	The best of both I guess
15:30	sfan5	you mean like a çŒ«æœ¨?
15:39	Peacock	General Tao Chicken?
15:42	Peacock	Ooo net split, with or without sprinkles?
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16:30	reactor	https://d19nsh368mnho.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/NewImage8.png
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16:32	kaeza	afternoons
16:32	Peacock	here, have a few evenings too
16:36	jin_xi	and my axe
16:48	kaeza	jin_xi, I use rexona, but thanks anyway :P
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17:07	Peacock	you guys hear about the Sheep market heist?
17:09	Peacock	along with china banning bitcoins for financial transactions, they seemed to have dropped in value to aroud 700$US/coin
17:09		NekoGloop joined #minetest
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17:32	kaeza	[10:18:48] <john_minetest> minetest has a community. When there is a fork there is a split. mods don't have a community. If mods split nobody cares. <-- feel free to fork homedecor, technic, or mesecons
17:33	* sfan5	is pissed
17:34	sfan5	reactor: technically it should be 7 bottles of milk
17:35	reactor	oh yes.
17:36	kaeza	actually, nobody would care about that either
17:38		reactor joined #minetest
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17:38	Exio4	there are a lot of 'forks' or new mods based on other old mods
17:39	Peacock	hell sometimes even new mods get fucked
17:39	Peacock	*forked
17:40	Peacock	i wish they'd have chosen a different word for that lol
17:40	rubenwardy	Hi all
17:40	Peacock	rubensandwich@
17:40	kaurdump	i heard about that bitcoin stuff
17:40	Peacock	*!
17:40	kaurdump	maybe i'll finally buy one
17:40	Exio4	the difference is that a mod isn't 3 years of work and a hell lot of C++ code
17:41	rubenwardy	Peacock, I actually added that to my highlight list :P
17:41	kaurdump	not hte sheep thing
17:41	kaurdump	but the china saying banks shouldn't touch it
17:41	rubenwardy	Are you talking about freeminer?
17:41	sfan5	<kaurdump> i heard about that bitcoin stuff
17:41	Exio4	we're talking about dominating the world
17:41	rubenwardy	oh ok
17:41		diemartin joined #minetest
17:41	kaurdump	peacock was asking
17:42	rubenwardy	You are a bit late if you want to do it before the Chinese, Exio4.
17:42	rubenwardy	:P
17:42	Exio4	we're already on it
17:42	Peacock	exio the language seems irrelevant, some mods require more work than others, and alot of mod forks are mostly minor tweaks :P
17:42		rubenwardy left #minetest
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17:43	rubenwardy	I think it is good they forked Minetest
17:43	Exio4	Peacock: you can't compare a 100k lines of code program versus a mod
17:43	Peacock	as for BTCs, i read somewhere that they were very big in China, though the recent anouncement by the gov't there cut their value by a quarter
17:43	kaurdump	someone sent me a coinbase referral earlier this year and i bought like .0004 bitcoin to get the free $5 in bitcoin :P
17:43	kaurdump	i'm pretty sure china's exchanges have the most volume
17:43	Peacock	exio well wether something is 1K lines of code or 100K, the right to fork is the same, so i still dont get people being butthurt over freeminer lol
17:44	kaurdump	it was more of a speculative investment for chinese ppl. like gold 2.0
17:44	Exio4	i actually like the idea of freeminer
17:44	kaurdump	but i think it's the bitcoin protocol itself that's special
17:44	rubenwardy	time to make the UI for NBE!
17:44	Exio4	but it got a lot of code that isn't that well optimized :P
17:44		kaeza joined #minetest
17:45	rubenwardy	Yeah, they put a lot of individual pull requests in, and have not smoothed the edges yet
17:45	Peacock	well i dont personally like prollers' stuff, but i don't see anything wrong with him forking and doing it anyway, it's been suggested here enough times when other features were rejected
17:45	rubenwardy	You dont like weather and water?
17:45	rubenwardy	And math map generation?
17:46	Peacock	me? no
17:46	rubenwardy	"Project Drill": http://ubuntuone.com/72LtAf6EtfCMBK4dDqsoFg
17:46	rubenwardy	(screenshot)
17:46	Peacock	but still, i wouldn't stop him from doing it anyways in his own project
17:52	Peacock	if particlespawners were better, i wouldn't object to weather mods
17:53	rubenwardy	Do particle spawners use irrlicht particles, or sprites
17:53	Peacock	even making a simple fountain with particle spawners is a pain in the ass
17:53	rubenwardy	(Sapier^)
17:53	Peacock	jeija rigged those up :P and i think they're entities/sprites
17:53	rubenwardy	(or was it jeija?)
17:53	rubenwardy	oh
17:54	rubenwardy	They should be irrlicht particles!
17:54	rubenwardy	:P
17:54	Peacock	the fact they can be physical/not makes me think they're based on entities or written the same way as entities
17:55	sapier	rubenwardy?
17:55	rubenwardy	aheinecke, so they serialized across multiplayer? (ie: multiple people on the same server see them in the same place)
17:55	rubenwardy	woops
17:55	rubenwardy	*ahh
17:55	Peacock	though for weather you'd need entities that remove themselves on collision
17:56	rubenwardy	Ideally for performance, particles should be irrlicht particle systems or SPARK particles systems, and individual particles should not be serialized.
17:56	rubenwardy	SPARK particles have collision
17:57	rubenwardy	Sorry, sapier, I was thinking of jeija.
17:57	Peacock	im not terribly familiar with the inner workings of the engine :P too many files and i'm too visual to keep track of them all :P
17:57	sapier	no problem :-)
17:57	rubenwardy	Neither am I, but I know irrlicht.
17:57	rubenwardy	:P
17:58	Peacock	im personally trying to figure out how they dev'd Space Engineers
17:58	Peacock	i know it requires i have .NET 4 something installed, apart from that..??? lol
17:59	Peacock	that games' got 6d gravity, moving nodes/groups of nodes
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18:01	rubenwardy	What do you mean by "nodes"?
18:01	Peacock	well you build your ships/stations out of nodes like you would in any voxel game, though each ship/station (group of nodes) have velocities and orientations
18:02	rubenwardy	ah
18:02	rubenwardy	So game play nodes, rather than scene nodes / objects
18:02	rubenwardy	Interesing
18:02	rubenwardy	adds to wish list
18:03	Peacock	not sure how its' done honestly
18:03	Peacock	that game wasn't dev'd on linux for irrlicht
18:06		PilzAdam joined #minetest
18:07	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
18:07	Calinou	hi PilzAdam
18:08	PilzAdam	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/96f753a108600619f94015bf889a73d97e44ce3a
18:08	PilzAdam	lol
18:08		Megaf joined #minetest
18:10	hmmmm	i pointed that error out long before it was merged and i got ignored
18:11	specing	hmmmm: next time bring your nyan cat with you
18:18	Peacock	every man should get a semicolon exam :/
18:29	Jordach	Calinou: found a setting in droid to enable 4x msaa
18:30	Jordach	developer mode is where its at!
18:33	Calinou	heh
18:33	Calinou	it's slow enough already
18:33	Calinou	I'm surprised there is even MSAA
18:34	troller	sfan5, we already revert tab_playerlist2 and merge tab_playerlist
18:34	sfan5	troller: ah good
18:34	sfan5	you should probably merge the latest changes I did to tab_playerlist
18:35	troller	and it does not work when unlimited distance disabled
18:35	sfan5	(vertical centering, using console_{color,alpha} for coloring)
18:35	troller	ok
18:35	sfan5	that makes it more black
18:35	sfan5	(and more readable(
18:35	sfan5	s/(\(.+)\(/\1)/
18:36	rubenwardy	uh, not regex!
18:36	troller	hm.. now - working... but sometimes show only self
18:38	Exio4	[15:35:57] <sfan5> s/(\(.+)\(/\1)/
18:38	Exio4	[15:35:57] sfan5: (and more readable)
18:38	Exio4	awesum
18:39	PilzAdam	troller, thats because the client currently gets the name only when the player object is send
18:39	PilzAdam	which is kinda hacky...
18:39	sfan5	Exio4: do you expect me to make non-functioning regexes?
18:40	Exio4	no, but that the parser actually worked with a more than s/a/b regex
18:45	sfan5	m bgrtttgbbbb t6zz6tgb gtgn fn ,o98
18:46	sfan5	oops
18:46	Exio4	eujdfwjn sfan5 sdfsdfu7sdifjshdfy
18:46	sfan5	s/.+//
18:46	Exio4	s/./&&&/
18:54	hmmmm	hey guys, I need some feedback from other people on this
18:54	hmmmm	how would you like custom humidity and temperature parameters to be handled?
18:55	hmmmm	if it's exposed through the config file only and not saved along with the map, changing it would cause the biomes to be inconsistent
18:56	PilzAdam	I like how its done currently
18:56	hmmmm	this isn't as bad as the actual terrain becoming inconsistent of course, but i'd still think it's undesirable
18:56	hmmmm	what.. hardcoded?
18:56	Peacock	strippers, that would rock
18:56	hmmmm	I don't like how it's done currently
18:56	PilzAdam	isnt it saved in map_meta.txt?
18:56	hmmmm	no, only mapgen parameters are saved in map_meta.txt
18:56		OldCoder joined #minetest
18:56	hmmmm	biome heat and humidity are only hardcoded at the moment and I need to change that
18:57	troller	hmmmm, for first - make adjustable heat& humidity from config
18:57	troller	noise params ^
18:57	hmmmm	....that's what we're talking about
18:57	troller	make it like other noise params
18:58	troller	ups
18:58	Peacock	fedex
18:58	troller	Ð¿Ð¾Ñ‡Ñ‚Ð° Ñ€Ð¾ÑÑÐ¸Ð¸
18:58	troller	hmmmm, saved to map meta
18:59	hmmmm	what about everybody else?
18:59	OldCoder	Hi
18:59	hmmmm	do you think biome parameters should be saved to map meta, or only read from config?
19:01	PilzAdam	hmmmm, what would be the benefit of not saving it in meta?
19:01	nore	hmmmm, I reckon they should be saved with the map
19:01	hmmmm	PilzAdam: it makes things easier for me
19:02	Peacock	was told meta is slow
19:02	Peacock	for weather shit might not be good
19:02	PilzAdam	Peacock, not node meta, map_meta.txt
19:02	hmmmm	alright fine, I'll add it to the base MapgenParams I suppose
19:02	Peacock	oh lol makes more sense
19:03	Peacock	mgparams would make sense, along with a 'weather' flag to disable it completely
19:04	hmmmm	this has nothing to do with the weather nonsense
19:04	hmmmm	that's what I hate D:
19:04	Peacock	then whats the humidity thing for?
19:04	hmmmm	so at this point, for mapgen v6 at least, there are three separate humidities
19:04	hmmmm	one for jungles, one for biomes which go unused, and then another one for proller's weather
19:05	hmmmm	this has clearly gotten past a point where we need it to stop
19:05	hmmmm	stop adding humidity crap without first consulting me
19:05	PilzAdam	(you should say that in -dev)
19:05	PilzAdam	(and write it in the dev wiki)
19:05	Exio4	ha
19:05	Peacock	well im in the clear lol i always thought hardcoded weather was a mistake :P
19:06	hmmmm	I can't combine any of them either without screwing things up
19:06	Exio4	also, about proller's weather in FM
19:06	Exio4	it was raining... sadly i was on a desert
19:06	Exio4	er, snowing
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19:07	Peacock	yes it is snowing right now, though i just saw six firetrucks pass so i guess someone beat the odds :/
19:07	Exio4	lol?
19:07	hmmmm	real life weather blows too right now, at least where I'm at :/
19:08	troller	Exio4, raining in desert will be fixed soon
19:09	Peacock	i hear its intense in the US, icestorms in Texas :/ been pretty mild in Quebec by comparison
19:11	Peacock	its weird how winters are getting mellower in Canada and more intense in the US, and they call it global warming lol
19:12	EvergreenTree	There was supposed to be 3~4 in. of snow where I live (midwest USA) but it hasn't come yer
19:12	EvergreenTree	*yet
19:13	Peacock	in the last few years the worst weather weve gotten is in february, usually it was from dec-march
19:13	Peacock	like, -30c with high winds
19:13	EvergreenTree	bleh
19:14	Peacock	by the time you make it indoors your balls are gone
19:16	Peacock	though that would explain why it's taken me till today to put up the tree lol
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19:17	EvergreenTree	I haven't put up the tree yet, but I will today
19:18	sapier	nothing compared to -32768Â° constant in minetest ;-)
19:18	EvergreenTree	It's a fake tree, had it for years
19:18	Peacock	i got one of those 7' slim trees (Fake)
19:18	EvergreenTree	Ohwait, I could just use myself
19:18	EvergreenTree	facepalm
19:19	EvergreenTree	It is kind of boring being a christmas tree tho
19:19	Peacock	though the biggest pain is the first few hours with the cat constantly climbing it lol once the lights are in im good lol
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19:36	Pilcrow	bit quiet right now, eh?
19:36	Megaf	I FUCKING HATE WHEN I WRITE A MESSAGE ON MINETEST AND IT JUST FUCKING SEGS FAULT
19:37	Megaf	specially when Im having a conversation about fixing what griefers done
19:37	Pilcrow	never had that happen. you mean like a chat message?
19:37	Megaf	yep
19:37	Megaf	Pilcrow, are you using a recent version?
19:37	Megaf	that never happened to me either, till two weeks ago
19:38	Pilcrow	I'm on 0.4.8 stable for now...
19:38	Megaf	Peacock, where do you live?
19:38	ShadowNinja	Megaf: Run a debug version in a debuger and paste the backtrace.
19:39	Peacock	Canuckistan
19:39	Peacock	land of bountiful ale and poutine
19:40	Peacock	(though mostly ale)
19:40		Pilcrow182 joined #minetest
19:41	Exio4	Megaf: without backtrace, you are just bothering yourself
19:42	Megaf	Im just bothering myself playing minetest
19:42	Megaf	it segfaulted again
19:42	Megaf	$ rm -rf minetest-minetest-000da6b/
19:42	Megaf	done
19:42	Megaf	this fixed
19:42		Pilcrow182 joined #minetest
19:43	Megaf	ShadowNinja, so, you mean compile it for debug instead of release?
19:44	Megaf	-DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Debug
19:44	ShadowNinja	Megaf: Yes. That adds debuging symbols so that you get line numbers and the like.
19:44	Megaf	like so
19:44	ShadowNinja	Yep.
19:44	Pilcrow182	hmm, been having some weird 'net issues lately. my connection stuttered, and now IRC thinks I'm still online so it won't let me use my normal name...
19:45	Megaf	compiling
19:45	Pilcrow182	I'm the same 'Pilcrow' who was just talking to you folks...
19:45	Megaf	Pilcrow182, /nickserv release yournick yourpassword
19:45	Megaf	or
19:45	Megaf	/nickserv ghost nick paswword
19:46	Megaf	assuming your nick is registrated
19:47	Megaf	* Pilcrow has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:47	Megaf	anyway, your nick is free again
19:47	Megaf	ShadowNinja, ok, crashed again, what do I do now?
19:48	Exio4	did you run it under gdb?
19:49	Exio4	if yes, thread apply all bt full
19:49	Exio4	and paste the output
19:50	Pilcrow	Thanks for the tip anyway, Megaf. this is the first channel I've ever frequented, so I know nothing of irc (commands and such)
19:50	Peacock	cat's high up in the tree, cleaning the bristles :/
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20:05	Megaf	Peacock, you can register you nick, so nobody else use it
20:05	Megaf	ops
20:05	Megaf	Pilcrow,
20:05	Megaf	sorry Peacock
20:05	hmmmm	erm
20:06	hmmmm	A lot of people doing mods pick a random number for the value of something
20:06	hmmmm	and that's it
20:06	hmmmm	normally you'd want some value to be the most common, and then maybe then it gets rarer as the value gets higher
20:06	hmmmm	so you know how you just do local number_of_foos = pr:next(min, max)?
20:06	hmmmm	stop that
20:07	hmmmm	do this instead
20:07		Pilcrow joined #minetest
20:08	hmmmm	local number_of_foos = 0; for i = 0, N do number_of_foos += pr:next(min, max) end; number_of_foos = number_of_foos / N
20:08	hmmmm	where N is some number at least 5 or 6
20:08	Pilcrow	my linux has been acting strange lately...
20:08	hmmmm	the higher N is, the more the distribution looks like a typical bell shaped curve
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20:13	Peacock	foos are good, but bars are better
20:14	Pilcrow	my journald is producing 'argument list too long' errors and freezing all file transactions...
20:15	Peacock	sounds legit
20:15	Pilcrow	that has nothing to do with minetest, of course, but it's annoying as heck since a hard reboot is the only way to get around it...
20:16	PilzAdam	hmmmm, are you refering to any particular mod/game?
20:17	Pilcrow	nah, it's an error with my linux os (Chakra, if anyone cares)...
20:17	Pilcrow	oh you're talking to hmmmm, not just saying 'hmmmm'... by bad, lol
20:17	Pilcrow	*my
20:18	hmmmm	not in particular
20:18	Peacock	pulseaudio: i think it was a general comment about most mods :P
20:18	Exio4	jackd > pulseaudio
20:19	PilzAdam	woot!
20:19	PilzAdam	https://forum.minetest.net/userlist.php?username=&show_group=-1&sort_by=num_posts&sort_dir=DESC&search=Search
20:19	PilzAdam	<- #1
20:19	Peacock	imagine enabling/disabling jackd, "jackd on", "jackd off" :/
20:20	Exio4	i don't disable jackd
20:20	Exio4	i use it all the time
20:20	Exio4	it is too awesome to disable
20:20	Peacock	so you never jackd off?
20:21	Peacock	lol
20:21	Exio4	kik
20:21	Exio4	lol
20:21	Pilcrow	pulseaudio is a pain, but wonderful when it works. I never used jackd though.
20:21	Peacock	allright i'll shut up now i have to put the lights in the tree anyways lol
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20:23	kaeza	jojoa is #4 :\|
20:23	PilzAdam	where is my cake?
20:24	Pilcrow	the cake is a lie. but congrats, lol. I wonder if you'd still be at the top if you could sort by number of TOPICS rather than posts... :P
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20:33	Mati^1	hi
20:35		magikfingerz joined #minetest
20:37	magikfingerz	Hi everybody! I have minetest 0.4.8 installed and can't see a buttor for "Local install" in the mods section... in another PC with version 0.4.7 I can see it... Somebody knows why?
20:38	FreeFull	magikfingerz: I think it installs local by default
20:38		SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
20:39	magikfingerz	FreeFull, Well that button allows me to select a mod file saved locally instead of use the repository...
20:40	sapier	local install button was disabled because of win32 localization fixes broke localization for file select dialog
20:40	magikfingerz	FreeFull, I use that button because my sometimes I haven't internet connection... so I can copy the mod zip file to my PC and install it using that button...
20:40	sapier	we had to deside either delay 0.4.8 or remove the button till a proper fix is in place
20:41	Megaf	VanessaE, are you there? I'd like some help wit world edit
20:41	PilzAdam	magikfingerz, quote from source: "Disabled due to upcoming release 0.4.8 and irrlicht messing up localization"
20:41	Megaf	with*
20:42	magikfingerz	PilzAdam, sapier OK, I understand... thanks a lot! I simply will install 0.4.7 until that button was enabled again in the next version... :)
20:43	hmmmm	having that one feature realy is a dealbreaker?
20:43	hmmmm	but look at all the other great stuff that 0.4.8 has....
20:44	sapier	hmmmm guess we should hurry to fix it for 0.4.9
20:45	magikfingerz	Well I use the button because I haven't found a reliable method to install mods manually... I unzipped tothe mods directory but I can't see it when I open minetest, that's why I use the "Local Install" button...
20:45	sapier	are you sure that button was there in 0.4.7??
20:45	sapier	thought modstore was added in 0.4.8?
20:46	magikfingerz	sapier, I have that version right now(0.4.7) and I see it right now... :)
20:46	sapier	ok ok :-)
20:46	sapier	guess I got something wrong
20:46	hmmmm	:)
20:46	hmmmm	he is probably using a development version
20:46	magikfingerz	hmmmm, you are right :D
20:47	hmmmm	well magikfingerz, that's not really 0.4.7
20:47	hmmmm	and it's also not supported
20:47	hmmmm	there are things with that button that are broken which was the reason it was removed
20:47	hmmmm	enjoy your broken stuff :/
20:47	magikfingerz	hmmmm, well... that's the version what is worked for me hehe... :)
20:48	hmmmm	you're a happy guy aren't you
20:48	magikfingerz	hmmmm, sure, because minetest works great :D
20:48	hmmmm	:)
20:50	Exio4	that :) is http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4772/1767/1600/62483229d.jpg
20:50	magikfingerz	Thans a lot guys... I will play right now because my 8-year child wants to create a new world with a couple of mods activated...(thats why I play minetest, to play some adventures with him :D)
20:51	us_0gb	For me, the text-input seeds were all I needed to convince me to upgrade.
20:51	us_0gb	There are a lot of other good things too, but something as simple as that is usually my favorite new feature.
20:56	ShadowNinja	Megaf: Type "bt" and "bt full" and ,,paste the results.
20:56	ShadowBot	Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com.
20:57	Megaf	ShadowBot, where, when, why?
20:57	Megaf	ShadowNinja,
20:57	Megaf	it still working
20:57	ShadowNinja	Megaf: What do you mean? You gust said it crashed.
20:57	kaeza	lol Exio4
20:57	Megaf	I said that a lot ago
20:59	PilzAdam	does ,,paste work for everybody or just ShadowNinja?
20:59	ShadowNinja	PilzAdam: Only me, because MinetestBot is arround and ShadowBot ignores everyone but me to prevent command conflicts.
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21:13	Peacock	motherfucking fuck, 2/3's of my circuits don't work
21:14	Peacock	all the really old ones made in this country still work, guess where the rest came from :P
21:20		Miner_48er joined #minetest
21:28		svuorela joined #minetest
21:46		Miner_48er joined #minetest
21:52	Megaf	ShadowNinja,
21:52	Megaf	Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
21:52	Megaf	0x08451c7b in irr::gui::CGUIFont::getDimension(wchar_t const*) const ()
21:52	PilzAdam	Megaf, bt all
21:52	PilzAdam	eh, bt full
21:52	Megaf	too late, closed already
21:52	Megaf	sorry
21:53		Zeg9 joined #minetest
21:53	PilzAdam	well, what you just posted isnt very useful
21:53	Zeg9	Hello!
21:53	Megaf	PilzAdam, ok, Next time I will give more info
21:54	Megaf	its crashing when sending chat messages
21:54	Megaf	either in the normal chat box either on the terminal like thing F10
21:58	EvergreenTree	hello Zeg9 long time no see
21:58	Zeg9	Hi Evergreen
22:01	ShadowNinja	Megaf: If the core was dumped you might be able to do "gdb bin/minetest core".
22:04		PandemoniuM joined #minetest
22:04		theTroy joined #minetest
22:05	harrison	minetest from the debian repo crashes when the Public Serverlist checkbox is checked
22:06	sfan5	harrison: provide a backtrace
22:08	harrison	http://pastebin.com/wru2Qfc6
22:09	sfan5	that doesn't help
22:09	harrison	i am not agitating for a fix
22:09	sfan5	you probably need a debug build
22:09	ShadowNinja	LuaJIT being helpfull with it's exception mangling again.
22:09	harrison	i am just reporting
22:15	Exio4	anyone playing clickingbad?
22:16	Peacock	i prefer clickinggood, its more christian
22:16		fixed joined #minetest
22:17	Exio4	ew :P
22:17	Peacock	lol
22:17	Peacock	christ compels you! :P
22:21	ShadowNinja	Exio4: I played it, and "beat/won" it. (By having everything)
22:27	Exio4	ShadowNinja: i'm still playing it
22:30		theTroy joined #minetest
22:32	Exio4	i want to get the a whole month playing achiv
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23:00	Megaf	It would be nice a sponge thing to dry the water of
23:00	Megaf	like in the old minecraft
23:00	paramat	Hi hmmmm, concerning biomes in MGV7, may i suggest per node calculation of biome instead of per column? Temperature and humidity both being 2D noise plus a linear fall with altitude ...
23:03	kaeza	!g minetest sponge
23:03	MinetestBot	kaeza: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4642
23:03	kaeza	Megaf, ^
23:08	paramat	indeed we have our own brand of sponge
23:09		theTroy joined #minetest
23:11		arsdragonfly_ joined #minetest
23:11	hmmmm	paramat, yes
23:12	hmmmm	you see I ran into the biome column selection problem when I was adding 'top nodes' under ridges
23:12	paramat	good :)
23:12	hmmmm	the thing is, each of those biome calculations were O(n) so I couldn't sacrifice performance
23:12	hmmmm	with the new way I factor height into the equation though, I have O(1) performance since I am able to precompute all biome values and check it from a look up table
23:13	hmmmm	so I can do a biome calculation per-node
23:13	paramat	will you be using biome points and voronai diagrams?
23:13	hmmmm	I am already doing that
23:13	paramat	okay
23:14	hmmmm	I don't want biomes to be completely per-node though
23:14	hmmmm	it doesn't make much sense to go upward and then all of a sudden it's a tundra biome whereas a couple nodes below it was a rainforest biome
23:15	hmmmm	there could be a temperature falloff with height, certainly
23:15	hmmmm	but it won't change everything
23:15	paramat	humidity falloff will help
23:16	zat	Could not find EKEY_CODE, using orig. X11 keycode instead: 25
23:16	zat	???????????
23:16	paramat	that will help place biomes where they should be
23:17	paramat	i was about to say 3D biome dither/blend is beautiful but i saw on -dev you don't like biome blend :)
23:17	paramat	3D dither in ice is pretty
23:18	hmmmm	i know
23:18	hmmmm	I need to figure out how to mix liquid dust nodes between biomes
23:18	hmmmm	i don't know how generalized it should be
23:19	hmmmm	i have no idea what i should be doing because the only thing i have to go off of is minecraft, and their biomes are rather limited in terms of features
23:19	hmmmm	since everything is hardcoded
23:19	paramat	'biomes o' plenty' in MC has 87 new biomes
23:20	paramat	i'm seeing those biomes on Sips ans Sjin and Yogscast videos
23:20	hmmmm	yeah but the node that forms between cold biomes and warm biomes on top of water are always ice nodes
23:20	hmmmm	i think they dither ice?
23:21	hmmmm	that's a hardcoded effect though
23:22	Megaf	kaeza, thanks
23:28		hehe joined #minetest
23:28	hehe	Hello
23:32		john_minetest left #minetest
23:34	paramat	hmmmm i also saw on -dev you are having troubles with dust nodes at y = 48 chunk boundaries ... i can certainly sympathize
23:35	paramat	my own solution though is fairly rough and radical and may create other problems
23:44		Pilcrow joined #minetest
23:50	hmmmm	my approach is to use as much of the information available to me to guess what the nodes below me are
23:50	hmmmm	which works half of the time
23:56	Jordach	paramat, get on with it! :D
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