IRC log for #minetest, 2013-10-13

Time	Nick	Message
00:07	pitriss	please, is there way to replace already registered recipe instead of adding alternative recipe?
00:09	NakedFury	the lua file
00:09	NakedFury	I guess no
00:11	pitriss	okay.. i will try to solve conflict in recipes in other way.. thanks anyway
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00:13	VanessaE	there is no way from within a mod to do so, no
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01:47	arsdragonfly	VanessaE there should be
01:48	VanessaE	agreed
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01:53	kahrl	well there was #696 but it was never merged
01:55	VanessaE	kahrl: how goes your http fetch work?
01:56	kahrl	I've been busy with other stuff, sadly
01:56	VanessaE	ohh
01:57	VanessaE	you should merge that soon
02:00	* NekoGloop	curls up in VanessaE's lap
02:00	VanessaE	heh
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02:41	arsdragonfly	pitriss: try this : function a() = minetest:register_craft_recipe()
02:42	arsdragonfly	minetest:register_craft_recipe() = function if not (the recipe to be replaced) then a(parameter) end
02:42	arsdragonfly	I'm not quite sure about the syntax, but I hope you get my point anyway :P
02:43	pitriss	arsdragonfly: ok i will try that morning.. now I'm going to sleep.. ty for advice..:)
02:44	arsdragonfly	My pleasure
02:44	pitriss	night all
02:49	NakedFury	first under lab!
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03:52	zsoltisawesome	Y u no talk minetest?
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04:04	RealBadAngel	hi all
04:04	NakedFury	hi
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04:08	zsoltisawesome	You know what? Here: http://postimg.org/image/r5vzr2kq3/
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04:08	rotcaer	o/
04:09	zsoltisawesome	\o
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04:16	RedBlade7	hi
04:16	RedBlade7	is there any way to have hardware acceleration on linux with minetest?
04:16	RealBadAngel	new video with parallax mapping: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEH9vXKRIHU
04:16	RedBlade7	i get 60-70 FPS and max CPU
04:17	RealBadAngel	theres FPS cap at 60
04:17	RedBlade7	ok
04:17	RealBadAngel	you can turn it off in config
04:18	RedBlade7	does it force more cpu if i did that?
04:18	RedBlade7	i'd rather use the gpu if i can :)
04:18	NakedFury	looks great
04:18	RedBlade7	no meaning i'd rather not waste cpu power
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04:19	rotcaer	why need more than 25 fps?
04:19	RedBlade7	i dont
04:19	RedBlade7	i just dont want one core of CPU at 75-100%
04:19	rotcaer	we can't see the diff above 30 fps, really
04:19	RedBlade7	when i have a gpu
04:19	VanessaE	GPUs don't do motion blur, so you need a much higher frame rate to compensate for it
04:19	rotcaer	GPU does the drawing
04:19	VanessaE	at least they usually don't.
04:20	VanessaE	a person with good eyes can see up to around 80 fps.
04:20	rotcaer	but CPU is loaded because there are millions of blocks to feed
04:20	RedBlade7	ok
04:20	RedBlade7	i know when i got the hqx pack i had to get the 256K because the 512K version took a very long time to load
04:20	VanessaE	HDX
04:20	rotcaer	VanessaE: idk, I can notice the screen flicker st 60 Hz, but that's screen, and ingame image is persistent between redraws
04:20	RedBlade7	hdx
04:20	rotcaer	at*
04:21	RedBlade7	VanessaE: you were the one listed who invented that right?
04:21	VanessaE	and I use 256px because minetest can't handle the 512px size anymore
04:21	VanessaE	Invented? call it "assembled" :)
04:21	RedBlade7	lol
04:21	rotcaer	And why need photographical texture packs in a retro game?
04:21	VanessaE	because it's fun?
04:21	rotcaer	they just don't fit!
04:22	RedBlade7	i didnt know it was supposed to be retro
04:23	RedBlade7	let me double-check graphics settings
04:23	RedBlade7	see if i can disable stuff
04:25	RedBlade7	i never like to use anisotropic filtering in anything, i think things look better without it, so i always leave it off. that's disabled
04:25	rotcaer	sam here eh
04:25	rotcaer	same*
04:25	rotcaer	textures look blurry with it
04:25	RedBlade7	i dont know why "bi-linear" and "tri-linear" are both there but i checked them both
04:25	RedBlade7	rotcaer: not a matter of blurriness, just overly non-computer-like
04:26	RedBlade7	i checked this afternoon on the wiki about settings, couldnt find anything
04:26	RedBlade7	anyone have any suggestions to use less cpu?
04:26	RedBlade7	what to check/uncheck
04:26	rotcaer	RedBlade7: ?
04:26	RedBlade7	in the settings
04:29	rotcaer	RedBlade7: most options are commented in the config
04:29	rotcaer	minetest.conf.example
04:29	RealBadAngel	filtering is useful only for higher resolution textures
04:30	RealBadAngel	also should definitely be turned on while using bumpmapping or parallax mapping
04:31	RedBlade7	oh ok i was looking at the menu
04:31	RedBlade7	will look at the file
04:32	RealBadAngel	and about CPU usage, game mechanics takes most of the time
04:32	RealBadAngel	this has nothing to do with GPU
04:32	RedBlade7	ok
04:33	RedBlade7	i dont know how to describe it, so i will compare two open-source games and someone can explain
04:33	RedBlade7	with urbanterror, it uses lots of cpu and of course the gpu
04:33	RedBlade7	with openarena, it uses little cpu and of course the gpu
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04:33	RedBlade7	without the gpu, the cpu would do it all
04:33	RealBadAngel	things like parallax mapping you could see in video i posted earlier use GPU extensively
04:33	RedBlade7	if i used the integrated video
04:33	RedBlade7	ok
04:34	RealBadAngel	so turning it off will speed you up
04:34	RedBlade7	idont have that in the settings
04:34	RedBlade7	there's "mipmapping"
04:34	RedBlade7	and i have it off
04:34	RealBadAngel	ofc you dont have it
04:34	RealBadAngel	thats a feature to come
04:34	RedBlade7	i have the git
04:34	RedBlade7	can anyone explain to me though what i'm talking about when i say "cpu vs gpu"
04:35	RedBlade7	with the example i gave above
04:35	rotcaer	Why would png files be chmod +x?
04:35	rotcaer	:(
04:35	RealBadAngel	GPU is responsible for fancy effects like shaders
04:35	RealBadAngel	not the game
04:35	RedBlade7	ok
04:35	RedBlade7	now i get it
04:36	RealBadAngel	with simple things you can try to lower view range
04:36	RedBlade7	and the shaders would be done by cpu if onboard video
04:36	RealBadAngel	shaders are GPU only thing
04:37	RealBadAngel	onboard video is not made for such stuff
04:37	RealBadAngel	ie gaming
04:40	RedBlade7	is vsync on by default?
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04:42	RedBlade7	no but doesnt seem to matter
04:44	RedBlade7	maybe i should look at the config file instead of the menu and guessing
04:45	RealBadAngel	theres config example
04:45	RealBadAngel	with all the settings aviable
04:45	rotcaer	RedBlade7: reduce the draw distance
04:45	rotcaer	it affects cpu load
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04:53	RedBlade7	where's that in the config
04:54	RealBadAngel	press + - ingame
04:54	RedBlade7	ok
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05:17	nore	RealBadAngel, are you still there?
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06:15	cy1	How do you get a pneumatic tube to supply fuel to a furnace? On the bottom I guess?
06:16	nore	yes
06:16	cy1	yeah the pipe goes on the bottom my bad
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06:58	us}0gb	VanessaE, are you still awake?
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07:12	reactor	Does reducing PNG compression speed up texture loading?
07:12	us}0gb	That's a good question. I have no idea.
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08:00	thexyz	> Your favourite... > FYI the correct spelling is favorite
08:10	thexyz	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7416
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08:14	reactor	thexyz: depends on the language
08:14	us}0gb	Or you won't survive? I didn't realize survival was an option.
08:14	reactor	English vs. American
08:14	us}0gb	English vs. United Statesian.
08:15	us}0gb	Americans come from North or South America. Two whole continents.
08:15	us}0gb	I wish survival was an option, but I fear I will oneday die.
08:16	us}0gb	*one day
08:16	thexyz	reactor: this is why I cited that
08:17	us}0gb	Ha ha, jojoa1997's favorite Minetest user is himself!
08:17	thexyz	american english only english
08:18	reactor	American to English is like Linux to Unix
08:19	us}0gb	So ... freer?
08:20	reactor	No.
08:20	reactor	Less quality, more popular.
08:20	reactor	s/Less/Lower/
08:20	reactor	And the former is a clone of the latter.
08:21	reactor	Like Elektronika-60 to PDP-11.
08:22	reactor	Oh wait, the Soviets did fix some bugs in the CPU.
08:22	reactor	s/ts/t/
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08:28	reactor	Speaking of which, I wonder if it's theoretically possible to host MT on a 25 MHz machine with 4M RAM.
08:29	us}0gb	Alright, it's time for me to get to bed. G'night!
08:29	reactor	Night.
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08:39	nore	how do you make a node that will change what it will drop depending on its meta?
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08:58	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
08:58	PilzAdam	nice user name: https://forum.minetest.net/profile.php?id=7841
09:00	nore	PilzAdam, how would you make a node whose drops depend on its meta?
09:01	PilzAdam	set drops to "" and then call handle_node_drops() in on_dig() manually
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09:01	nore	yes, but it looks like items are not added to inventory... :(
09:02	PilzAdam	code?
09:02	nore	http://sebsauvage.net/paste/?48ddeed1407ea073#y03V28LJf0vNolWNF3uFzfB42HCFKxPF4Uvj3gSliZU=
09:02	nore	the first part of the code is correct, that is sure
09:03	nore	if I do print(drops), I get that: {[1] = "technic:template 4"}
09:03	PilzAdam	cant you use a pastebin that doesnt require JS?
09:04	nore	anyway, I do that: minetest.handle_node_drops(pos, drops, digger)
09:04	PilzAdam	what is the nodedef?
09:04	nore	with correct drops and pos and digger, but I don't have anything
09:04	nore	after_dig_node = template_drops,
09:07	nore	ah, I fixed it
09:07	nore	it was the problem of a strange bug with UI in creative
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09:23	webdesigner97	hi!
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09:38	Jordach	my brother ripped a cd, what format?
09:38	Jordach	> .m4a
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09:45	* Jordach	will probably make a post about games that support custom user stuff
09:45	reactor	?
09:45	Jordach	i've been minetesting in places where it is not possible
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10:12	* Jordach	pokes sfan5
10:12	reactor	?
10:12	Jordach	?
10:12	* sfan5	pokes Jordach
10:12	sfan5	?
10:12	Jordach	sfan5, you at home or not
10:12	sfan5	no
10:12	sfan5	try again at 17:00
10:12	* Jordach	needs your building service
10:13	sfan5	that works from everywhere :P
10:14	reactor	What does the "math" mapgen do?
10:14	Jordach	sfan5, https://gitorious.org/minetest-classic/minetest-classic/
10:14	sfan5	Jordach: oh..
10:14	sfan5	when I build minetest-classic it ends up broken
10:15	sfan5	I might try in 5 mins
10:15	Jordach	then how does sdzen do it
10:15	Jordach	i'll attempt myself
10:15	FreeFull	I do miss the glorious mapgen of earlier minetest
10:15	FreeFull	Which got abandoned due to being slow AFAIK
10:15	FreeFull	It was beautiful ):
10:19	Evergreen	Hello everyone!
10:19	Jordach	hello Evergreen
10:23	reactor	markveidemanis: o/
10:24	markveidemanis	Hi!
10:26	markveidemanis	Who has Facebook, Path, Twitter, LinkedIn or tumblr?
10:27	Jordach	gtfo
10:27	Jordach	now,
10:29	markveidemanis	What does the fox say?
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10:30	reactor	Uh.
10:30	reactor	As soon as I enter a nether portal, the game hangs.
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10:44	reactor	Is it possible to whitelist players?
10:44	sfan5	no
10:44	reactor	mk
10:45	reactor	markveidemanis: social networking is for those who can't talk to people irl.
10:45	reactor	And Twitter is for attn hos.
10:46	Jordach	+8
10:48	markveidemanis	Like ^^
10:48	Jordach	you want a !kick
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10:49	reactor	I don't.
10:49	reactor	That's just a manner of speech, brother sir.
10:53	markveidemanis	I want a server to play on
10:54	markveidemanis	Anyone?
10:54	reactor	idk
10:54	reactor	I'm bringing up one today
10:54	reactor	but you've already seen it
10:54	markveidemanis	I havent
10:54	markveidemanis	Not on my new PC
10:54	reactor	Yes you have.
10:54	reactor	mk
10:54	markveidemanis	Ive seen it on a screen less than a quarter of the size i have now
10:54	reactor	I'll query you when I'm ready.
10:54	markveidemanis	ok
10:55	reactor	That is not my problem, sir!
10:57	reactor	If I pause the game while loading a WE scehme, will it be loading?
10:58	markveidemanis	in theory yes
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10:58	rotcaer	mk
10:59	Dan_D	Help? minetest.register_on_dieplayer(function(pos, player, node)
10:59	Dan_D	minetest.add_node(player:getpos(), {name="castle:grave"})
10:59	Dan_D	end)
10:59	Dan_D	11:58:11: ERROR[main]: ServerError: LuaError: error: /home/daniel/.minetest/mods/castle/grave.lua:29: attempt to index local 'player' (a nil value)
11:00	rotcaer	which worldgen is the default?
11:00	rotcaer	and which one is the latest?
11:01	Dan_D	Help?
11:02	Dan_D	Also, V6 is default mapgen
11:02	Jordach	sfan5, are libraries .a files
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11:03	Dan_D	Help anyone?
11:03	Jordach	oh it isnt
11:07	Evergreen	rotcaer, the latest is mg7, but it only generates stone (unless any mods define biomes) mg6 is the default
11:07	rotcaer	mk
11:07	rotcaer	what is indev?
11:09	Jordach	!rev rotcaer
11:09	MinetestBot	reactor
11:09	Jordach	thanks MinetestBot
11:09	MinetestBot	:)
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11:11	rotcaer	!rev Jordach
11:11	MinetestBot	hcadroJ
11:11	rotcaer	lmao.
11:21	rotcaer	!inv markveidemanis
11:21	rotcaer	oops
11:21	rotcaer	!rev markveidemanis
11:21	MinetestBot	sinamedievkram
11:21	rotcaer	Siname dievk RAM!
11:26	markveidemanis	???
11:27	markveidemanis	!b16e Hello Tyhere
11:27	markveidemanis	grrr
11:28	rotcaer	Learn. To. Type.
11:29	markveidemanis	Its not the parameters that are wrong
11:29	markveidemanis	!b64e Hello
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11:32	Jordach	markveidemanis, MinetestBot has you on her ignore lists
11:32	MinetestBot	That's true, Jordach.
11:32	markveidemanis	Twat.
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11:43	sfan5	Jordach: yep
11:44	Jordach	http://paste.ubuntu.com/6230855/
11:44	Jordach	^ explain
11:45	smoke_fumus	Jordach: can't open file.
11:45	Jordach	smoke_fumus, cmake cannot locate the library file for jthread
11:45	Jordach	2.8.12 as well
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11:47	Jordach	it seems to be looking for .lib files that don't exist
11:48	Jordach	the jthread folder has no .lib, i checked thorughly
11:57	* Jordach	pokes sfan5
11:57	sfan5	Jordach: wrong library for jthread
11:58	Jordach	sfan5, it was bundled with minetest-classic
11:58	Jordach	idea
11:59	Jordach	sfan5, pulled the one from minetest/minetest
12:00	Gethiox2	minetest have a background music?
12:00	Gethiox2	okay, thanks john_minetest
12:01	Jordach	sfan5, http://paste.ubuntu.com/6230919/
12:01	Jordach	cmake's generate output
12:01	sfan5	jthread.h is a C/C++ header, not a library file
12:02	Jordach	hm, im using the library file from the 0.4.x minetest
12:02	Jordach	(well. jthread folder)
12:02	sfan5	how is the library file named?
12:02	Jordach	http://paste.ubuntu.com/6230855/
12:03	Jordach	there doesnt seem to be any .lib
12:03	sfan5	.h means it is a fucking header file not a library
12:03	Jordach	2>LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'jthread.h.lib'
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12:04	sfan5	>jthread.h.lib
12:04	sfan5	>.h
12:04	sfan5	read what I said
12:04	Jordach	sfan5, cmakefiles is empty
12:04	Jordach	there's just .c, .h and .cpp files
12:04	Jordach	no lib
12:04	sfan5	exactly
12:04	Jordach	then wtf is it looking for
12:05	Jordach	plan b: removed the jthread library from cmake
12:05	sfan5	you told cmake the libfile is jthread.h, it does not end in .lib so it looks for <path>.lib
12:05	Jordach	hm
12:06	Jordach	and here's my cmake: http://i.imgur.com/SCThME8.png
12:07	Jordach	fun fact: i havent compiled minetest on windows for 2.1 years
12:09	Jordach	2>LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'jthread.lib'
12:09	Jordach	dafuq do you want jthread
12:13	Jordach	lol
12:17	Jordach	where is blockmen when you need him
12:17	rotcaer	pwned
12:21	Jordach	fuck it; i'll build jthread
12:23	Jordach	FINALLY: jthread-static.vcxproj -> C:\Users\Jordach\Desktop\jthread-1.3.1\src\RELEASE\jthread.lib
12:24	Jordach	that's the droid im fucking looking for
12:27	rotcaer	hmm
12:27	rotcaer	we lag a lot
12:29	Jordach	now let's hope it fucking builds
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13:06	markveidemanis	Who is in germany?
13:07	Jordach	that's a dumb question
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13:09	markveidemanis	I have a proxy server in germany and want someone to test it
13:09	markveidemanis	Its an online php server for bypassing school/work blocking limits
13:10	NakedFury	PilzAdam, sfan, and a bunch of others
13:10	markveidemanis	http://goo.gl/8s90P3 try the proxy
13:12	NakedFury	I can try it at my college. they use Sonicwall
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13:14	markveidemanis	Is it fast?
13:14	markveidemanis	Do you know of a better software for this use?
13:14	PilzAdam	I dont understand why you need someone from germany to test a proxy in germany
13:15	NakedFury	no. I have no other proxy that works against sonicwall so I will test it there tomorrow
13:15	NakedFury	but usng it now it seems fast
13:17	markveidemanis	In uk its slow as hell...
13:19	Jordach	meh
13:19	Jordach	i found a way to do it
13:20	Jordach	i use packet injection indicating that the user accound is in fact one of the school admins
13:20	Jordach	because we have access to MSVC
13:21	NakedFury	MSVC?
13:22	Jordach	Visual Studio
13:23	Jordach	basically, i used wireshark to follow the modfiied smoothwall packets to overlay a website, then used packet injection to indicate to the proxy server that i am an admin
13:24	NakedFury	well we dont have visual studio sadly
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13:29	Jordach	http://i.imgur.com/roFMGVQ.png
13:34	rotcaer	/exec -o yes
13:40	nore	I have a question about minetest.get_meta...
13:40	chlue	hm ist control+c a correct way to 'shutdown' the server of should I do something different for a clean shutdown?
13:40	nore	what does it return if the area is not loaded?
13:50	rotcaer	Hmm.
13:50	rotcaer	Is this normal if servers lag?
13:50	rotcaer	What should I check if the delay is as high as 2 seconds?
13:50	rotcaer	(it happens over network, on localhost it's fine)
13:55	chlue	rotcaer: some servers are very slow. Enter /status and if the maxlag value is bigger than one then don't expect fluid gameplay as in singleplayer
13:55	rotcaer	mk
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14:00	Jordach	can someone render the minetest logo at 32px
14:00	PilzAdam	why dont you do it yourself?
14:00	sfan5	^
14:00	Jordach	PilzAdam fag count: 18
14:17	rotcaer	chlue: maxlag is about 0.2
14:17		zat joined #minetest
14:21	zat	Someone eher~
14:22		iqualfragile joined #minetest
14:25		iqualfragile joined #minetest
14:30	Jordach	huh
14:30	Jordach	smooth lighting doesnt work on fancy trees
14:31		Calinou joined #minetest
14:31	Jordach	hello Calinou
14:32	Calinou	hi :)
14:32	rotcaer	o/
14:32	rotcaer	Jordach: doesn't work on slabs, either
14:33		iqualfragile joined #minetest
14:35	Jordach	i know you're here VanessaE
14:35	Calinou	* [VanessaE] inactif 00:03:21,
14:36		Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
14:36	Jordach	see, the french stole english :P
14:37	rotcaer	everyone stole everything
14:37	rotcaer	Now kill yourself.
14:38	rotcaer	yep
14:43		ImQ009 joined #minetest
14:47		iqualfragile joined #minetest
14:48	VanessaE	hi
14:48	VanessaE	I was in scrollback.
14:49	rotcaer	o/
14:50		ImQ009 joined #minetest
14:57		Mallot1 joined #minetest
14:58	Mallot1	good morning
14:58		NekoGloop joined #minetest
14:58	Mallot1	does anyone have any info about minetest 0.4.8? Ive been checking the minetest.net site everyday
14:59	VanessaE	it is not out yet and there is no release schedule yet
14:59	rotcaer	Mallot1: use the latest one from git eh
14:59	Mallot1	oh its out?
14:59	rotcaer	it's not
15:00	rotcaer	but it's cutting-edge
15:00	VanessaE	repeating: it is not out yet and there is no release schedule yet
15:00	VanessaE	use a nightly git build instead if 0.4.7 is too old for your needs.
15:00	minetest	lol
15:00	minetest	cool
15:01	minetest	i just went to the inecraft channel
15:01	VanessaE	why?
15:01	minetest	the moment i changed my name to minetest i got banned
15:01	minetest	LOL
15:01	rotcaer	Ha.
15:01	VanessaE	well no shit
15:01	VanessaE	they're tired of the trolls
15:01		iqualfragile joined #minetest
15:01		OldCoder joined #minetest
15:01	minetest	there just hatin
15:01	minetest	:)
15:02	VanessaE	they're*
15:02	rotcaer	hating*
15:02	VanessaE	and perhaps, but mostly they're just sick of the trolling.
15:02	Calinou	they are indeed hating
15:02	Calinou	it's common to hate on a cheaper or free product when you pay more for something similar
15:02	minetest	i know i spelled it wrong
15:02	Calinou	spell it mesetint :>
15:02	minetest	exactly Calinou
15:03	minetest	he sees the light
15:03	rotcaer	or the blight?
15:04	Mallot1	yea :D
15:04	VanessaE	It needs to be, in my opinion, the official policy of this channel and community to not troll or harass minecraft users and their various resources. We need to cut that crap out.
15:04	Mallot1	who harsses minecraft
15:04	Mallot1	aay I if u do
15:05	Mallot1	*say
15:05	Mallot1	*you
15:05	VanessaE	you mean "aye".
15:05	VanessaE	and no.
15:05	rotcaer	Then you will expand that to OS harassment.
15:05	Mallot1	I didnt think so
15:05	rotcaer	And get me banned.
15:05	rotcaer	No, thanks.
15:06	Mallot1	lololololllolololollooloololollololllollololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololloolollol
15:06	Mallot1	minetest is nicer
15:06	rotcaer	in fact, windows users do deserve some harassment.
15:06	Mallot1	to people
15:06	Mallot1	hey
15:06	Mallot1	im on windows 8 sucka B)
15:06		Dan_D joined #minetest
15:06	rotcaer	Aha! Gotcha you [CENSORED]!
15:06	rotcaer	Kidding.
15:06	rotcaer	But hey.
15:06	Dan_D	Is this right? paramtype2 = "6facedir"
15:07	rotcaer	How can you use that crap?
15:07	Mallot1	you learn pretty fat actually
15:07	Mallot1	*fast
15:07	Mallot1	what are you on?
15:07	Calinou	paramtype2 = "facedir"
15:07	Calinou	works
15:07	Calinou	it's 6d already :P
15:07	Calinou	Mallot1: he is on netbsd...
15:08	Mallot1	I've heard of it
15:08	rotcaer	Calinou: not anymore
15:08	rotcaer	I use netbsd for virtual machines, though.
15:08	Dan_D	No it isn't
15:08	Mallot1	cool
15:08	Dan_D	It is only 4d
15:08	Dan_D	not 6d
15:09	Mallot1	I got a OSX Mountain Lion VM on my windows 8
15:09	Dan_D	Otherwise furnaces could be placed facing up
15:09	Calinou	use screwdriver
15:09	Calinou	Dan_D: not relevant
15:09	Dan_D	Does it rotate nodeboxes?
15:09	rotcaer	Calinou: I run freebsd now; I have to say, it's quite similar.
15:09	Calinou	you have to do that yourself
15:09	Calinou	it does
15:09	Calinou	rotcaer: phew...
15:09	rotcaer	Calinou: ?
15:09	Dan_D	Really? Oh
15:10	Calinou	at least you're using more proper drivers :>
15:10	Mallot1	dang this chat is flying
15:10	Calinou	I hope :>
15:10	rotcaer	Calinou: I am.
15:10	rotcaer	Calinou: but NVIDIA are still [CENSORED].
15:11	Mallot1	I was on the minecraft community last year
15:11	Dan_D	Is the screwdriver craftable?
15:11	Mallot1	and they were jerks
15:11	Mallot1	were wining in user friendlyness
15:12	* Mallot1	is flexing his muscles
15:12	rotcaer	Windows is user-hostile.
15:12	Mallot1	How
15:12	rotcaer	It can't be used remotely with efficiency.
15:12	Mallot1	did u try logmein
15:12	Mallot1	logmein.com
15:13	rotcaer	ahem It can not be used remotely without graphical login.
15:13	rotcaer	It can not be used efficiently without graphics, at all. But even its GUI is inefficient.
15:13	Mallot1	oh you dont like the new start screen and GUI stuff they are adding
15:13	rotcaer	It takes efforts and time to deploy on machines.
15:14	rotcaer	And it takes even more efforts to keep in shape.
15:14		markveidemanis joined #minetest
15:14	rotcaer	And it has as much holes as a honeycomb!
15:14	rotcaer	I could continue, but I wont. It's crap. I rest my case.
15:14	Mallot1	Lol XD
15:15	Mallot1	I still like windows
15:15	Mallot1	its easy to download things
15:15	Mallot1	it has a nice desktop
15:15	Mallot1	and GUI
15:15	zat	Signs someone who apparently hasnt tried any other OS.
15:15	Mallot1	and is user friendly almost anyone can use it
15:15	rotcaer	Yes.
15:16	rotcaer	It's idiot-friendly.
15:16	rotcaer	And user-hostile.
15:16	Mallot1	zat: just buy it for me and ill try it out
15:16	Mallot1	:)
15:16	zat	Buy what Mallot1
15:16	Mallot1	i like free OS's
15:16	rotcaer	Not everyone is an idiot, not everyone needs shiny glossy big buttons to work!
15:16	PilzAdam	Mallot1, " easy to download things" have you ever tried a package manager in Linux?
15:16	rotcaer	Oh yeah. That.
15:16	Mallot1	Ive seen them i think they are really cool
15:16	rotcaer	What we see here is yet another Windows bigot.
15:17	Mallot1	I like linus and Mac and Windows
15:17	Mallot1	*linux
15:17	rotcaer	You like men?
15:17	rotcaer	I dind't know.
15:17	Mallot1	Ive been trying to get Linux for ages now
15:17	Mallot1	but i dont know how
15:17	rotcaer	I mean, Freudian slip.
15:17	Mallot1	and i finally got a MAc V<
15:17	zat	Doesnt matter, you are still at the point where you think Windows is more friendly. When friendliness is given by the desktop environment, where virtually all works basically the same.
15:17	Mallot1	*VM
15:18	rotcaer	See that? He doesn't even type well.
15:18	VanessaE	Mallot1: Make a backup of your computer. Go to http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/ pick a mirror close to you, download, burn, boot. Install if you see fit.
15:18	rotcaer	Mallot1: stop trying to use computers, it's not for you.
15:18	Mallot1	zat no, the start menu in windows is good for those people who want apps ecery single day, but the desktop is better
15:18	VanessaE	that's how you get Linux the right way
15:19	Mallot1	lol rotcaer :D:D:D:D:D
15:19	rotcaer	Did I smirk?
15:19	zat	Mallot1: the desktop is better... how?
15:19	Mallot1	i havent been trying to get linux full time
15:20	rotcaer	You should learn how to use keyboard, man.
15:20	zat	I kind of see a nonsensical comparison here... the start menu is nice but desktop is better
15:20	Mallot1	thanks Vanessa E
15:20	rotcaer	That's the first thing a comptuer user should learn.
15:20	zat	the driving wheel of a car is good but I prefer the speedometer
15:20	Mallot1	I got a riot
15:20	rotcaer	zat: no, thanks. I like wheelchairs better.
15:21	zat	You cannot call it a riot where you are in the middle alone disagreeing
15:21	Mallot1	im not disagreeing i said that they all are giid
15:21	rotcaer	Mallot1: when one is disagreeing is more like DEMONSTRATIVE BEHAVIOUR
15:21	zat	...giid?
15:21	Calinou	rotcaer: windows GUI is inefficient, I approve, yes :p
15:21	Mallot1	but i brought / have window 8
15:21	rotcaer	Calinou: ...but any GUI is too slow to accomodate me :)
15:22	rotcaer	Mallot1: congratulations. You've made Microsoft richer and yourself more broke-ass.
15:23	Mallot1	nope, i made microsoft richer
15:23	rotcaer	...and then they're asking why big corporations run countries, farming people for their food
15:23	zat	Does Microsoft actually enforce the need of buying windows on all users?
15:23	Mallot1	Id rather not nickel and dime than to get what i like
15:24	Mallot1	windows - $300 Mac - $1000
15:24	rotcaer	s/Id/I'd/
15:24	zat	I mean, would they sue people not buying it and downloading-cracking it instead?
15:24	rotcaer	Wawit.
15:24	rotcaer	s/wit/it/
15:24	Calinou	rotcaer: MS already got its money, they already sold tons of OEM licenses
15:24	rotcaer	Id?
15:24	pitriss	zat: in some kind yes. here you can't see linux in schools.. so yes..
15:24	Mallot1	well considering its illegal zat
15:24	Mallot1	just buy it
15:24	rotcaer	Calinou: but lemmings do contribute to it, too
15:24	zat	Well, but I say, for home users.
15:24	ruskie	I'm glad I never bought a prebuilt box... so MS never got money out of me for such things
15:24	zat	would they sue a single home user?
15:24	Calinou	sell-ins matter for companies such as MS. not sell-outs
15:25	Mallot1	proably not za
15:25	Mallot1	zat
15:25	zat	For example, here in Chile they dont
15:25	ruskie	only thing they get money for was dos 6.22 and win 3.11
15:25	zat	Sometimes I wonder that if they actually did, they would totally lose their â€œmarketâ€ share.
15:25	rotcaer	"Id". Are we talking psych now?
15:26	zat	People use their OS because computers come with it, and they learn that it is like a reference OS, what is familiar...
15:26	Mallot1	hey guys if you havent noticed while you were disliking windows they are the top market for PC's
15:26	rotcaer	Someone needs more control over their "Id", Mallot1.
15:26	Mallot1	what
15:26	zat	so, from that point of view, all that does not work like windows or with windows is â€œwrongâ€.
15:26	rotcaer	They say, "most successful" does not necessarily mean "best".
15:26	Mallot1	no \
15:26	Mallot1	thats only for idiots
15:27	Mallot1	that dont want to try new things
15:27	rotcaer	They got so many users because their OS is idiot-friendly.
15:27	Mallot1	or the people who actually Like windows and want to USE it
15:27	rotcaer	And most people are idiots.
15:27	rotcaer	Idiots that can not be cured.
15:27	zat	rotcaer: I would say because they invest in misinforming users
15:27		dhbiker joined #minetest
15:27	rotcaer	zat: the misinformed get fixed sooner or later
15:28	Mallot1	or people,who like to actually do what they need to to make something work for them
15:28	zat	go ask random average users
15:28	rotcaer	zat: but idiots don't
15:28	Mallot1	instead of sitting and complaining like idiots
15:28	zat	most people think windows is synonym of graphical operating system or something
15:28	Mallot1	Windows is great
15:28	rotcaer	(it's hard to fix the misinformed, though)
15:28	Mallot1	Mac is great
15:28	rotcaer	Mallot1: that is like saying "I am great and bla bla bla"
15:28	Mallot1	Linux from what i heard is great
15:28	Mallot1	so this is over
15:28	zat	uhm
15:29	rotcaer	What we see here is... someone's broken the situation.
15:29	Mallot1	yup
15:29	rotcaer	:(
15:29	zat	My opinion: GNU/Linux (not linux alone) is great, Windows is an OS attempt, Mac is expensive
15:29	Mallot1	lol
15:29	Mallot1	yup
15:29	Mallot1	were entitled to our opinions
15:30	rotcaer	zat: that makes a good quote
15:30	zat	Microsoft should drop Windows and concentrate on making gaming consoles
15:30	rotcaer	And that.
15:30	Calinou	mac isn't an OS
15:30	pitriss	zat: agree..
15:30	zat	They already failed technologically on the desktop and office.
15:30	Calinou	it's apple's computer brand. OS X is an OS
15:30	Mallot1	but there are so many kids sitting on their butts already
15:30	rotcaer	But I'm afraid PC will disappear, and we will have nothing to run UNIX at home on.
15:30	Calinou	zat: they make tons of money on both
15:30	Calinou	because of monopoly
15:31	Calinou	rotcaer: PCs will not disappear in the close future :P
15:31	rotcaer	if Microsoft goes away from that market, it will
15:31		dhbiker joined #minetest
15:31	Mallot1	then the other companies who are trying to make PC's will then have a chance
15:31	rotcaer	because lemmings will stop buying the hardware that doesn't support Microsoft OS
15:32	rotcaer	consuming lemmings are the market's driving force nowadays
15:32	Mallot1	"lemmings"?
15:32	rotcaer	hamsters
15:32	Mallot1	oh lol
15:32	rotcaer	95% of humans
15:32	rotcaer	the herd
15:32	rotcaer	sheep
15:32	rotcaer	etc.
15:33	zat	Well, the only reason why GNU/Linux or other UNIX like OSs have not succeeded is because Microsoft is investing hard in trying to make other OSes look like they do things wrong, that is, hardening interoperability all they can.
15:33	Mallot1	and people who just want to write a paper
15:33	rotcaer	People who write papers use TeX.
15:33	Calinou	my dad writes papers using LibreOffice, Mallot1
15:33	Calinou	you don't need MS office for that
15:33	Mallot1	or its simply people Microsft advertised alot
15:33	Mallot1	i write papers using OpenOffice
15:33	Calinou	it's due to people hating on change and hating on openness
15:33	Mallot1	definitely that to
15:33	zat	Calinou: people is resistant to change.
15:34	Calinou	zat: fun fact: in france, there is a law about interoperability
15:34	Calinou	but it's not really applied :(
15:34	zat	How is it like Calinou?
15:34	Calinou	eg. you're allowed to reverse engineer for interop purposes
15:34	* YOURMAMA
15:35	zat	I think I read somewhere that in all europe you can
15:35	Calinou	maybe
15:35	Mallot1	well, ee ya guys i have to finish learning OpenGL
15:35	Mallot1	*see
15:35	zat	when I was researching for some library providing Skype protocol access.
15:36	zat	Calinou, Mallot1, rotcaer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzdykNa2IBU
15:37	rotcaer	see you, Mallot1
15:37	rotcaer	zat: sorry, no youtube here
15:37	rotcaer	Interoperability problems.
15:37	zat	If an open-source freeware solution breaks, whoâ€™s gonna fix it?
15:37	zat	that quote gave me cancer
15:37	Calinou	rotcaer: youtube-dl
15:37	zat	rotcaer: that video might play with the html5 plaer.
15:37	Calinou	not breaking TOS anymore :p
15:37	zat	player*
15:38	zat	Anyway rotcaer: http://www.wimp.com/attacksopenoffice/
15:38	rotcaer	Calinou: with that logic we'll have separate downloader for every site
15:38		VanessaE left #minetest
15:38	zat	Youtube is not the world
15:38		VanessaE joined #minetest
15:38	VanessaE	oops.
15:39	zat	rotcaer: different downloader for every site? what for? a site without flash is fine
15:39	rotcaer	youtube-dl is separate
15:39	rotcaer	and get_flash_videos is broken again
15:40	rotcaer	because the twats have changed something on their crappy site
15:40	rotcaer	zat: ?
15:41	rotcaer	zat: what is that link about?
15:41	zat	rotcaer: wasnt the issue about flash?
15:41	zat	:)
15:41	zat	rotcaer, check it with your computer? :P
15:41	Mallot1	that video was funny zat
15:41	rotcaer	it was
15:41		OWNSyouAll joined #minetest
15:41	Mallot1	:D
15:42	zat	I just recalled that video when mentioned that interoperability thing
15:42	zat	MS tries to convince users that they are the reference of all correctly done job
15:43	zat	if something does not interoperate with MS Office, it is that somethingâ€™s fault
15:43	rotcaer	yep
15:43	zat	not MSâ€™s, because they are the â€œstandardâ€.
15:43	rotcaer	yep
15:43	zat	And of course, games...
15:43	zat	Some say that all game are made with directx
15:44	zat	and windows is compatible with games
15:44	zat	how is that? now OSes are the ones compatibles with software. LOL
15:44	rotcaer	^ recognise yourself, Mallot1?
15:44	zat	kik
15:45	PilzAdam	Minetest runs better on Linux
15:45	zat	like other OSes did not support OpenGL
15:45	zat	I remember one argument with a kid in jail
15:45	Mallot1	zat, rotcaer, Calinou : http://bit.ly/GMAetv
15:45	zat	he said... all games are made with directx, not opengl, opengl is â€œfreewareâ€.
15:45	VanessaE	he's an idiot.
15:45	PilzAdam	!title
15:46	MinetestBot	PilzAdam: Let me google that for you
15:46	rotcaer	Mallot1: ?
15:46	VanessaE	there are a lot of games that are opengl-only
15:46	zat	I asked... give me a single reason why DirectX is better than OpenGL, and I give you one back.
15:46	Mallot1	openGL is AwesomE!!!
15:46	zat	He said, you first
15:46	zat	I said... DirectX is proprietary and it will work only where Microsoft wants to give support.
15:46	zat	He did not reply to that...
15:46	zat	Then he said... well, for some reason companies make games with DirectX.
15:47	Calinou	PilzAdam: Minetest was made for linux, yeah, like most FOSS
15:47	Calinou	<zat> Youtube is not the world
15:47	Calinou	I watch 1 youtube video per month average :p
15:47	zat	Yes... I said, then how do you explain those games are also available for PS3 and Wii also?
15:47	Calinou	last bunch of videos I watched were http://code.google.com/p/vdrift-ogre/wiki/TrackEditor
15:47	zat	You think that all consoles are MSs?
15:47	Calinou	aka. something useful :P
15:48	VanessaE	don't consoles usually run some form of opengl?
15:48	zat	I imagine Windows and XBox OS might be the only ones supporting DirectX.
15:49	zat	OpenGL on the other hand.... is an standard, implemented everywhere else.
15:49	Mallot1	LOOK OPENGL IS BOSS HOSS B)
15:49	Mallot1	yea what Mallot1 said /me flexes muscles
15:49	* Mallot1	flexes muscles
15:50	rotcaer	an hero
15:50		DMackey joined #minetest
15:50	zat	A guy asked me once... Windows is more compatible with software (lol).
15:50	zat	I said... in my OS I can run Windows software too, can you run linux software?
15:50	zat	He angued me nonstop for the rest of the day that he was running linux software, by downloading an exe of firefox, which is linux software he said.
15:50	* rotcaer	sprays some neurotoxin on Mallot1, making his muscles flex indepedently
15:51	rotcaer	s/deped/depend/
15:51	Mallot1	:D!
15:51	rotcaer	zat: :D
15:51	Mallot1	yea
15:51	Mallot1	zat who is this guy
15:51	zat	which
15:51	rotcaer	zat: typical Windows user's butthurt
15:51	rotcaer	Mallot1: you.
15:52	rotcaer	Probably.
15:52	Mallot1	nope B)
15:52	rotcaer	No point in denying eh.
15:52	Mallot1	proably supposed to be though
15:52	rotcaer	The more you deny the more we'll be sure it was you.
15:52	zat	eh well
15:52	Jordach	the problem is that IT courses in schools are crap
15:52	Jordach	they teach nothing computing related
15:52	Jordach	its xyz in ms office
15:53	Jordach	job done
15:53	zat	rotcaer: I have learned so much of the arguments of Wintendo LUsers though the years...
15:53	Jordach	and that's when user lock starts
15:53	Mallot1	i didnt talk about firefox never said windows was more compatia
15:53	zat	I havenâ€™t read/heard a new one in the last four years.
15:53	Mallot1	lol wintendo
15:53	zat	(only useful for playing games, thats it)
15:53	rotcaer	zat: personally, I can't provide good arguments when people ask me to explain why I use BSD.
15:54	Mallot1	me neither rotcaer when they ask about windows
15:54	zat	rotcaer: it does the job for you much more easily that anything else, what better argument?
15:54	rotcaer	zat: that is the best one
15:55	zat	Everytime I have to use a Windows box I feel like trying to drive a talk, using pedals.
15:55	zat	tank!!!!!!********
15:55	rotcaer	zat: but wait... windows users do use that argument often
15:55	zat	driving a tank*
15:55	rotcaer	but eh
15:55	Mallot1	tanks rock!
15:55	rotcaer	windows works, but does not work well
15:55	Jordach	if it works why complain
15:55	zat	The difference rotcaer, is that those users do not know other OSes.
15:55	Jordach	why fix something that is broken
15:55	rotcaer	Mallot1: ...not when driven by your legs
15:55	rotcaer	zat: true
15:55	zat	Your argument comes from someone who knows many, generally.
15:55	Mallot1	ive never driven
15:55	Mallot1	lol
15:56	rotcaer	zat: when one says they know a lot, it's viewed as vanity
15:56	Mallot1	yes
15:56	Mallot1	im out see ya
15:56	rotcaer	mkay, see you
15:56	zat	Having deployed dozens of networks, worked with servers serving all kind of contents, setting up entire offices with workstations, all with different OSes... I have learned one thing: Windows is only really useful to play games.
15:57	rotcaer	It is.
15:57	zat	Not because it is better for games, only because games makers make them available there.
15:57	rotcaer	My last and the most painful experience with it was setting it up on about 20 decrepit computers back at school.
15:58	rotcaer	It was then when I realised something is not quite right with that OS.
15:58	zat	I once tried to copy the whole hard-disk to replicate the OS in other computers.
15:58	rotcaer	That won't work.
15:58	zat	For some reason if the hardware was not the same which the system was installed on, it would fail.
15:59	rotcaer	Windows generates something procedurally during install.
15:59	zat	It is like the installed OS was fingerprinted with the hardware all inside.
15:59	rotcaer	something to do with hardware.
15:59	zat	...if you know what I mean
15:59	zat	On the other hand... I have set up 50 OSes with fedora or ubuntu just using rsync.
15:59	zat	quickly, painlessly.
16:00	rotcaer	drivers
16:00	rotcaer	something about hardware abstraction
16:00	rotcaer	it fails, because it generates it during install
16:00	rotcaer	and yes
16:00	zat	well, a really wrongly done abstraction if it wonâ€™t provide PORTABILITY.
16:00	Mallot1	at my school, there is a whole lab full of unofficial windows 7 PCS
16:00	rotcaer	yes, zat
16:01	rotcaer	Mallot1: you still there?
16:01	Mallot1	i just keep getting pulled back
16:01	Mallot1	i cant help it
16:01	rotcaer	Recalling school, I have to say it was useless experience altogether.
16:01	NakedFury	I have to use windows because all the programs I use for school only come for it.
16:02	rotcaer	It removes ability to think independently, and it stuffs pupils' heads full of ages old shit that is not applicable later in academic life.
16:03	zat	rotcaer: well, math is useful.
16:03	zat	language and science too
16:03	rotcaer	zat: why, you study them again at uni, from scratch
16:04	rotcaer	zat: and school only messes it all up, because school teachers don't really understand anything
16:04	zat	that teachers are not the best is another issue...
16:04	zat	but learning stuff from kid is good
16:04	rotcaer	it is, when you read proper books
16:05	zat	re-learning at university can also be good... you harden your bases
16:05	rotcaer	Sadly, I can't say that about my school life: their textbooks were awful.
16:05	zat	I mean, strengthen your base knowledge.
16:05	rotcaer	And re-learning is not learning from clean slate.
16:05	rotcaer	re-learning doesn't completely fix what is broken earlier
16:06	rotcaer	it takes a lot of work to fix the brain filled with crap
16:06	rotcaer	s/the/a/
16:06	zat	that sounds more like an opinion than a fact
16:06	zat	like, there is no use, your knowledge is broken already.
16:06	rotcaer	well, any psychologist can tell you that
16:07	rotcaer	while one can forget something, there still will be residue
16:07	zat	you sound like... learn something the wrong way once and you are condemned.
16:07	rotcaer	and it's easier to learn the right thing than have to unlearn the previously learned incorrect habit
16:07	rotcaer	not condemned
16:08	rotcaer	I just say it's harder to do that way
16:08	zat	depends on the person
16:08	rotcaer	so why bother stuffing people's brains with crap just to have to take it out with a shovel later?
16:08	zat	I normally prefer learning things in any order, practicing, then I arrange then by learning the theory.
16:09	zat	them*
16:09	rotcaer	Idk, I usually do the opposite. Read the manuals, then practice.
16:09	zat	thats it, we all learn differently
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16:09	zat	that is the issue with schools, they try to teach all the same way
16:10	zat	and if you do not, they consider you a kid with a learning problem
16:10	rotcaer	But it's generally harder to correct already learned wrong habits than to learn the right ones.
16:10	rotcaer	Exactly.
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16:10	zat	rotcaer: again it depends, for me it is easier
16:10	zat	once I have all the points in my head, I can see them all and link them together
16:11	zat	...sounds like what Jobs once said.
16:11	rotcaer	?
16:12	zat	the thing of linking the points or something like that.
16:12	zat	nevermind
16:12	zat	u devel rotcaer?
16:12	rotcaer	Not exactly.
16:12	zat	HEY!! WHO DEVEL HERE!!!!
16:12	rotcaer	I'm currently learning UNIX programming.
16:13	zat	I need to know on top of what commit should I introduce a change to the source code of Minetest.
16:13	rotcaer	Let me guess, the latest one?
16:13	zat	yes I did that yesterday, then deaceleron55 complained.
16:15	zat	â€œceleron55: zat: you managed to get something terribly wrong in thisâ€
16:15	zat	â€œceleron55: most of your changes are in a "Translated using Weblate (Spanish)" commitâ€
16:15	zat	...which was the last one.
16:17	rotcaer	is celeron55 a dev?
16:17	zat	yes
16:18	PilzAdam	zat, dont ammend to commits, just create a new one
16:18	PilzAdam	-m
16:19	zat	got it
16:19	zat	I accidentally amended a commit
16:19	zat	Then I created a newer commit containing the same.
16:20	zat	however... would someone like to try the changes?
16:20	zat	I still wait for someone to test it.
16:21	rotcaer	zat: what are you working on?
16:21	zat	SQLite based rollback,
16:21	zat	(it has worked wonderfully for me so far)
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16:22	rotcaer	by the way, can rollback slow down servers?
16:23	rotcaer	zat: oh. By the way. Is sqlite compatible with postgresql
16:23	rotcaer	?
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16:23	rotcaer	I would like to centralise databases on my system.
16:23	zat	sqlite compatible, how so.
16:23	zat	both use SQL
16:24	rotcaer	mk
16:24	zat	and yes rollback can slow-down servers, rollback would always hang mine.
16:24	rotcaer	Well, I still need to recall what I learned about SQL.
16:24	rotcaer	We only touched that topic slightly.
16:25	zat	lol
16:26	rotcaer	So, it's possible to keep maps on a centralised db server?
16:26	zat	it is possible to write a backend for map operations.
16:27	zat	So if you write a PostgreSQL one, it can.
16:27	rotcaer	good
16:27	rotcaer	I guess I could do that when I get to learning SQL.
16:28	rotcaer	seems like a good vacation project
16:30	zat	oh yes
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16:33	Evergreen	Hello everybody!
16:35	Jordach	hey Evergreen
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16:45	Evergreen	Hi us_0gb
16:46	us_0gb	Hello Evergreen!
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17:01	pitriss	please how many items, nodes etc can be registered? is there any limit?
17:03	rotcaer	Is there a way to increase firearms' distance?
17:04	us_0gb	pitriss, to the best of my knowledge, the only limit is on nodes, not other items.
17:04	us_0gb	4093 nodes.
17:04	us_0gb	Plus the three C++ nodes.
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17:06	pitriss	us_0gb: ok, thanks.. so, apples etc aren't counted as nodes if i understand this correctly..
17:07	us_0gb	Apples are nodes, so they count.
17:07	us_0gb	But sticks are not nodes, so they do not count.
17:08	nore	three C++ nodes... which one is the third?
17:08	us_0gb	Which is the first two? THe three are air, ignore, and unknown.
17:09	nore	is unknown a node? I though it were the nodes above the max node limit (so with content_id above 4096)
17:09	pitriss	us_0gb: ahh.. to be sure.. things that can be placed somewhere are nodes, items are things that can't be placed.. (sorry i'm just learning how to create mods)
17:10	us_0gb	nore, according to the source code, unknown is a node. However, last I tried, I couldn't place them.
17:11	us_0gb	pitriss, no worries. Yes, as a general rule, placeable things are nodes, non-placeable things are not nodes.
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17:14	pitriss	us_0gb: thanks a lot.
17:14	us_0gb	Yeah, any time!
17:18	us_0gb	nore, it seems unknowns cannot be placed by hand, but can be placed by the map generator (minetest.register_alias("mapgen_stone","unknown")). However, unknowns cannot be dug.
17:18	us_0gb	The client digs them, but the server does not accept the digging, and resets it.
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17:26	ModMasta	I have a dedicated server running cent os6 64 bit is there a nogui build already made that i can run on it
17:30	Jordach	ModMasta, minetest servers do not have a gui
17:30	Jordach	and no, you usually have to compile it for yourself
17:31	ModMasta	well dont wanna compile lol my pc windows and to busy working on my stuff just thought mabe i could put one up
17:32	Jordach	you must compile on cent os
17:32	Jordach	we do not work like minecraft_server.jar
17:32	rotcaer	yeah
17:32	ModMasta	i realize that lol
17:32	rotcaer	"only compiled languages, only hardcore"
17:32	Jordach	builds for other operating systems will not work on cent os
17:33	Jordach	it has to be built on cent os to run on cent os
17:33	ModMasta	my dedicated just got to much going on not even gonna try to compile on it
17:33	Jordach	then you can't start a server instance, sorry.
17:34	ModMasta	woulda been nice unlimited ban witdth
17:34	us_0gb	If it has too much going on to compile, it probably has too much going on to run a server.
17:35	ModMasta	lmao i got player im not goint to take a chance of interupting their game with a error
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17:35	Jordach	errors only happen if a mod (default or added) decides to crash
17:35	Jordach	or an in engine bug
17:35	Jordach	and the server can be restarted in less than 5 seconds
17:36	ModMasta	well like i say to many players on not going to mess with their day
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17:37	ModMasta	mabe this week i can grab a another hard drive and run os6 on my pc and then complie
17:38	rotcaer	os6?
17:38	ModMasta	CENT OS6
17:38	ModMasta	linux
17:39	rotcaer	Cent OS is not the only OS in the world.
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17:39	ModMasta	simalar to red hat
17:39	ModMasta	well it the os on my dedicated
17:39	rotcaer	What do you mean dedicated?
17:39	rotcaer	You run a machine 24/7?
17:39	ModMasta	dedicated server
17:40	ModMasta	yes
17:40	rotcaer	Why not try something better for that kind of computer?
17:40	ModMasta	like ?
17:40	rotcaer	I would suggest BSD for 24/7 applications.
17:40	ModMasta	this is a real server
17:40	Jordach	don't you start a kernel war rotcaer
17:40	rotcaer	Less energy footprint, more stable.
17:40	ModMasta	ti got what i got if it works dont break it
17:41	rotcaer	Jordach: note it's not exactly my intention to start kernel wars.
17:41	rotcaer	Most linux distros come with programs that have high overhead.
17:41	us_0gb	That's why you get the server edition.
17:41	ModMasta	no matter its what i have
17:42	ModMasta	this is a server edition lmao
17:42	us_0gb	Exactly. No need to switch to BSD.
17:42	ModMasta	runing parraells on top of that
17:42	rotcaer	Well, it's not me who's paying your energy bill.
17:43	ModMasta	i have no ddoas worries very good security ect no need to change
17:43	rotcaer	Also, good luck maintaining it (the OS) on the long run.
17:43	Jordach	nobody ddos' other minetest servers
17:43	Yepoleb	i like debian for everything
17:43	ModMasta	been running 2 years not one problem
17:44	rotcaer	Biebian
17:45	us_0gb	rotcaer, BSD and GNU/Linux are both known for being easy to maintain in the long run.
17:45	ModMasta	cent os6 is way more efficient then windos server lol
17:45	us_0gb	You may have a point on energy, but not that.
17:45	rotcaer	us_0gb: I've tried GNU before.
17:45	rotcaer	Messy.
17:45	rotcaer	ModMasta: true that.
17:45	rotcaer	Also.
17:45	us_0gb	ModMasta, everything is more efficient than Windows.
17:46	rotcaer	Compiling stuff under BSD is easier.
17:46	us_0gb	I have heard that.
17:46	rotcaer	At least in my experience.
17:46	rotcaer	You would not have to worry if you had to compile MT there.
17:46	us_0gb	Compiling on GNU isn't hard, but I have heard it's easier on BSD.
17:46	Yepoleb	Windows server is awesome, because you don't have to remember passwords
17:46	rotcaer	Personally, I couldn't get anything to build there.
17:47	rotcaer	Yepoleb: and if you like BDSM.
17:47	us_0gb	Yepoleb, not having to use a password is a HUGE security issue.
17:47	ModMasta	i had room just thoaught id try running one but im in the middle of writing my open server client game (unrelated) and all the users on my server now so...
17:47	rotcaer	Yepoleb: enjoy your anal fisting.
17:48	Yepoleb	i don't have my own windows server
17:48	rotcaer	Oh.
17:49	rotcaer	Good.
17:49	Yepoleb	but everyone i use is very slow and buggy
17:49	rotcaer	Not having to remember passwords... I get it. Why bother if it would be broken in anyway.
17:49	rotcaer	Yepoleb: you use people?
17:49	rotcaer	And they're slow and buggy?
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17:50	Yepoleb	i use windows servers
17:50	rotcaer	< Yepoleb> but everyone i use
17:50	us_0gb	Ha ha!
17:50	rotcaer	But that looks Freudian.
17:51	rotcaer	Windows _is_ buggy.
17:51	Yepoleb	don't complain about my english please
17:51	rotcaer	I don't remember a single time I used a Windows machine without it failing on me.
17:51	Yepoleb	i know it's bad
17:52	us_0gb	rotcaer, I had a Windows machine for a couple weeks one time because I was desperate. It crashed two to three times a day. I lost a lot of school work.
17:53	us_0gb	It turns out the unknowns are registered in C++ as nodes but in Lua as craft items. By switching it in Lua to a node, it becomes both placable and digable.
17:53	rotcaer	Desperate, as in?
17:53	Yepoleb	it's 99% reliable if you want nothing to work
17:53	rotcaer	Had no own machine? Had no OS on your own machine?
17:53	us_0gb	As in my computer wasn't powerful enough to do my schoolwork, so I had to borrow one.
17:54	rotcaer	Oh.
17:54	rotcaer	What was your schoolworl?
17:54	rotcaer	s/rl/rk/
17:54	us_0gb	THat particular homework was Flash seminars. My ancient computer couldn't take something as simple as that.
17:55	us_0gb	It was way outdated.
17:55	rotcaer	What OS?
17:55	us_0gb	It was an OS X machine. Don't judge me, it was the only computer I could get for $20 USD.
17:56	rotcaer	I rest my case.
17:56	us_0gb	The machine sucked, I know it.
17:56	rotcaer	Well, I heard one can install a proper OS on these.
17:56	us_0gb	I tried that a few times. I never got it to work.
17:57	us_0gb	My other OS X machine took GNU/Linux with little difficulty, but that machine isn't in a situation to be used as a client.
18:00	rotcaer	mk
18:00	rotcaer	ModMasta got butthurt.
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18:41	Evergreen	Out of curiosity, how would I make a python have a launcher with an image icon attached to it? Also, how would I make a .deb package for a python package for it?
18:41	Evergreen	*How would I make a .deb package for a python program
18:42	us_0gb	I don't know how to package software, but I can help with the icon. Open a text editor.
18:42	us_0gb	Drag an icon from another application to the text editor.
18:42	us_0gb	Make the changes you need, then save as.
18:43	Evergreen	Thanks!
18:44	us_0gb	Any time.
18:51	pitriss	Evergreen: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ about packaging deb
18:52	pitriss	it is bit complex but not so hard..:)
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18:55	Evergreen	Thanks
18:55	Evergreen	Gotta go, by
18:57	rotcaer	I wonder when people will start learning to type.
18:57	rotcaer	It's sickening to realise most type with two fingers.
18:58	rotcaer	F. Now... where's the U? Oh my god! I've missed it! Where's the backspace? Now, where's the U again? [10 minutes later] Oh, finally, I've found the C.
19:10	zat	I wish also all were as smart as me ;)
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19:11	us_0gb	I could use some more brain power.
19:11	JackGruff	hi guys, is minetest able to render the inside of a block using transparent textures?
19:12	JackGruff	or should i say the inside surfaces of a block
19:12	us_0gb	No, it cannot.
19:12	rotcaer	Why should it?
19:12	JackGruff	if you walk around a leave block, you can notice this limitation
19:13	Calinou	I don't really understand
19:13	us_0gb	Also glass blocks have this issue.
19:13	Calinou	it's normal that the opposing face is culled
19:13	Calinou	else it would look weird
19:13	Calinou	Minecraft does that too by the way
19:14	JackGruff	why would it look weird?
19:14	rotcaer	Not only it would look weird, it would also be inefficient.
19:14	rotcaer	Performance-wise.
19:14	JackGruff	i admit it may look a bit busier
19:14	rotcaer	No one likes slide shows.
19:14	JackGruff	i dont see that as a valid argument, it could be made optional
19:15	JackGruff	like, you know, mostly everything is.
19:15	rotcaer	Everything is inefficient?
19:16	us_0gb	It would be more efficient to not render anything. It would speed the game quite a bit.
19:17	Jordach	hahahahahahahahahahahaha
19:17	Jordach	+1
19:17	JackGruff	no, mostly every feature of the game, graphics wise, is optionaly
19:17	JackGruff	optional*
19:18	JackGruff	just like you can turn off fancy trees
19:18	JackGruff	anyway, i'll propose it on the forums
19:18	rotcaer	you would have to draw twice the polygon count of what you have
19:18	rotcaer	roughly
19:19	rotcaer	one could consider only drawing it on transparent blocks
19:20	PilzAdam	JackGruff, "every feature of the game, graphics wise"?
19:20	PilzAdam	are you sure about that?
19:20	us_0gb	I don't think the engine knows what nodes are transparent.
19:20	us_0gb	I'm sure at least one graphics feature that bothers me cannot be turned off.
19:21	JackGruff	A block/node could have metadata telling the engine it wants to be rendered inside as well.
19:21	rotcaer	yep
19:21	rotcaer	that
19:22	JackGruff	You tick off an option, say "even fancier trees!", and the engine renders inside blocks that want it
19:27	VanessaE	dafuq?
19:28	us_0gb	Hmm?
19:30	Jordach	lol
19:30	Jordach	please no nickspam
19:31	us_0gb	It seems unknown_node.png cannot be overridden by a plugin ...
19:32	us_0gb	VanessaE, It turns out I did hit a boundary case with my ores. The scarcity may not exceed 16^3*chunksize^3.
19:32	VanessaE	any solution?
19:33	us_0gb	Not one that allows high scarcity, that I can find.
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19:33	Mallot1`	windows s 8
19:33	VanessaE	sounds like you'll have to do it the old-fashioned way
19:33	VanessaE	by hooking into on_genrated.
19:33	VanessaE	on_generated*
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19:35	us_0gb	For now I'm using Settings to read map_meta.txt and setting the scarcity to the maximum scarcity. I'm not sure how to make it appear random with on_generated.
19:35	us_0gb	I'll put the ores further out, so they won't be found so easily.
19:35	VanessaE	easy, just call math.random() with some ridiculously high range (say 1,1000000). If the value = 1, spawn one of your special ore.
19:35	us_0gb	But once you get up there, they'll be everywhere.
19:36	VanessaE	the range becomes a 1-in-that-much chance of the ore being spawned somewhere in the current chunk
19:36	us_0gb	And do that for every node iteratively? Will that not cause high overhead?
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19:37	VanessaE	well all you have to do is call it once per chunk. If you get a match, then get three more random numbers to set the location.
19:38	us_0gb	Okay, that's a great idea. Thank you!
19:39	VanessaE	so something like, minetest.register_ongenerated(blah, foo, bar); if math.random(1,1000000) then x=math.random(0,79) y=math.random(0,79) z=math.random(0,79) minetest.add_node({x = minp.x+x, y = minp.y+y, z = minp.z+z}, {name = "myores:cool_ore"}) end
19:39	VanessaE	make sense?
19:40	VanessaE	that doesn't check for air at the proposed location, but I'm sure you know what to do after that
19:40	VanessaE	imho, if you check for air before placing you special node, and air isn't present, you should try to get a new set of random coords. Try up to 5 times, then just give up for that chunk.
19:41	us_0gb	Alright, awesome. Thanks! psudorandom might
19:41	VanessaE	no prob.
19:41	us_0gb	*Pseudorandom might be better to give map stability.
19:41	Jordach	sudorandom is what you should be using
19:42	us_0gb	Sudo? Like bash?
19:42	Jordach	im joking
19:47	us_0gb	So Jordach, you know Blender. Does it create .x files for Minetest? Or do I need to find a different application for that?
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20:06	Jordach	us_0gb, yes
20:06	Jordach	adding the addon allows that yes
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20:12	us_0gb	Okay, cool. I'm going to need to make some models, and I don't even know where to begin if I have to do it in a text editor.
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20:52	PilzAdam	bye
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21:12	JackGruff	is there no mod that makes all non-connected blocks fall?
21:14	pitriss	please how i can detect if file exists from mod? (config for mod)
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21:33	JackGruff	does mesecons randomly bug out with leaving signals/power on or is it just me?
21:34	JackGruff	sometimes my lightblocks stay on
21:34	VanessaE	happens to a lot of people, but it isn't mesecons
21:34	JackGruff	ooh ok
21:34	VanessaE	it's something to do with how mapblock updates are sent to cliens.
21:34	VanessaE	clients(
21:34	VanessaE	...
21:35	Sokomine	pitriss: do you want to check weather a specific file or a specific mod exists?
21:38	pitriss	specific file..
21:38	pitriss	Sokomine: I'm trying to do something that will setup defaults when config file is not found
21:40	Sokomine	ah. so you want to check for a file. you could try to open it for reading - and if that fails, it's not there
21:41	Sokomine	local file = io.open( filename, "w" ); if( file ) then ...
21:42	pitriss	Sokomine: ok thanks for advice
21:44	VanessaE	but wait
21:44	VanessaE	local modpath = minetest.get_modpath("the_mod_you_want"); local io.open( modpath.."/"..filename, "r" ); if file then ....code... end
21:45	VanessaE	you need to prepend the modpath since you wanted to find a specific file in a specific mod
21:45	VanessaE	john_minetest: oy!
21:45	VanessaE	that's just nuts
21:46	pitriss	thanks a lot.:)
21:48	pitriss	ok.. and undefined variable is nil or false? it should be nil..
21:48	VanessaE	nil.
21:48	pitriss	ty
21:50	VanessaE	so of course you'll want to see if modpath == nil before checking the io.open() step
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22:21	Evergreen	Hello
22:22	VanessaE	hi
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23:22	us\|0gb	This is so weird .... In the stable Minetest, I cannot dig unknowns. In the unstable version, I can. Both are running the same game.
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23:36	RedBlade7	hi
23:36	RedBlade7	i just started with this game two days ago
23:36	us\|0gb	Welcome to the game then!
23:36	RedBlade7	i'm trying to figure out the easiest way to find out where all the stuff i built is
23:36	RedBlade7	i tried flying to the highest level but it just seems that the map never ends
23:37	RedBlade7	is there any large jpg or something taht can tell me wherei am?
23:37	us\|0gb	Hmm. Yeah, the map goes out pretty far.
23:37	RedBlade7	so how do poeple find out where they last were? including where they left chests after dying
23:37	us\|0gb	I don't know how to find where you are without landmarks, but someone else here might be able to help.
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23:38	RedBlade7	i put stuff down as a "landmark" but still cant find them
23:39	RedBlade7	are any of the other included maps smaller?
23:39	RedBlade7	i had "v6" it was called i think
23:39	us\|0gb	Have you turned off the game since you lost your way? If not, you could hit the "r" key to see the general areas where you've been.
23:39	us\|0gb	All the maps go out a huge distance.
23:39	RedBlade7	oh ok
23:40	RedBlade7	flying with 'r' on seems to preload
23:40	us\|0gb	I forget how far, but further than +-30000.
23:41	us\|0gb	HUGE maps. Unless you TRY to reach the edge, you never will.
23:41	us\|0gb	Pressing "r" makes the game show you all loaded blocks.
23:41	us\|0gb	Loaded by the client.
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23:41	us\|0gb	So if your game is still running, that's everywhere you've been.
23:41	RedBlade7	oh
23:42	RedBlade7	i was trying to reach the edge
23:42	us\|0gb	It takes several hours to reach the edge.
23:42	RedBlade7	lol
23:42	RedBlade7	i just killed myself
23:42	RedBlade7	and try pressing 'r'
23:43	RedBlade7	but it just shows some more than others
23:43	us\|0gb	Sorry, I don't know what else would help you find your stuff.
23:43	RedBlade7	ok
23:44	RedBlade7	but turning "r" on and off just shows and dims parts of the map
23:44	RedBlade7	is that what it's supposed to do?
23:44	us\|0gb	THat's what it does. But it only shows places you've been since logging in.
23:45	RedBlade7	ok
23:47	us\|0gb	If you hit F5, you can see your current coordinates. Next time, you could write those down to find your way back later.
23:47	RedBlade7	ok
23:48	zat	free GPS!
23:48	zat	PPS actually... planar positioning system~
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23:55		theTroy joined #minetest
23:59	zat	Maybe now it works: Someone has a world with a big rollback.txt to try the SQLite implementation?

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