IRC log for #minetest, 2013-08-28

Time	Nick	Message
00:02	Inocudom	I get that uploader would need to have more than 100,000 subscribers in order to post a 10hr video like that.
00:02	VanessaE	anyone seen Uberi lately?
00:02	Inocudom	I have never seen Uberi before. Does he have another name?
00:03	PilzAdam	Arkmabat, there are logs
00:03	PilzAdam	see the channel topic
00:03	VanessaE	Inocudom: Temperest
00:03	VanessaE	but he's usually Uberi when he signs on here.
00:03	Arkmabat	Donde donde? Where are the logs
00:04	PilzAdam	Arkmabat, type /topic and look at the "IRC LOGS" part
00:04	Arkmabat	Thanks! :D
00:05	Inocudom	His last post in the forums was on the 22 of this month.
00:07	jojoa1997	lol i thought you said 22 months ago
00:08		OldCoder joined #minetest
00:12		Arkmabat joined #minetest
00:31		bas080 joined #minetest
00:38		jeffrash joined #minetest
00:40	jeffrash	anyone know the IRC channel for the LandRush server?
00:40	VanessaE	didn't know it had one
00:41	jeffrash	Oh, It may not
00:41	jeffrash	I just assumed it would
00:41	jeffrash	:)
00:41	VanessaE	Channels: #linuxgaming,#minetest,#re-servers
00:41	VanessaE	Chat client: irc.linuxgaming.us/6667
00:41	VanessaE	that looks like it's related anyway
00:41	VanessaE	no wait, I think that's the wrong one
00:42	VanessaE	got it mixed up with wazuclan :P
00:43	VanessaE	it doesn't appear to have a dedicated IRC channel/server.
00:44	jeffrash	ok, thanks
00:49		Evergreen joined #minetest
00:51		Inocudom joined #minetest
00:52		NekoGloopMkII joined #minetest
00:54	Inocudom	There doesn't appear to be any special action one must take in order to log out, so I figured that closing this window did so.
00:54	VanessaE	it does.
00:54	Inocudom	Did my previous login close when I closed this window?
00:55	VanessaE	[08-27 20:10] * Inocudom has quit (Quit: Page closed)
00:56	Inocudom	So it did. That is good news.
00:58	Inocudom	Fess still does Windows 64-bit builds of Minetest. I hope he will make a new one when enough commits are made.
01:02	PilzAdam	bye
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01:10		babyface1031 joined #minetest
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01:15	Inocudom	Things got quiet around here all of a sudden.
01:20	hoodedice	BANG BANG BANG !
01:21	hoodedice	oooh waterworld is on
01:23	hoodedice	anyone?
01:23	hoodedice	How do I configure xchat to connect to the irc?
01:24		abdul_ joined #minetest
01:24	abdul_	got it
01:28	hoodedice	Anyone?
01:29	kaeza	wat
01:30	hoodedice	Well I connected to waterworld
01:31	hoodedice	And the time's warping like crazy
01:37	kaeza	that moment when 'False = True; print False' in python outputs 'True'
01:40		kaeza joined #minetest
01:40	hoodedice	(and back)
01:41		Renoki joined #minetest
01:42	Miner_48er	hoodedice still need help with xchat?
01:42	hoodedice	I'm looking around it myself
01:42	Miner_48er	ok
01:43	kaeza	Server List -> Select your server -> Mark "Automatically connect to selected server"
01:44	hoodedice	mhmm
01:44		aldobr joined #minetest
01:44	kaeza	then right-click on the #minetest channel, and select "add to favorites"
01:44	aldobr	hi all
01:44	kaeza	hey aldobr
01:45	aldobr	kaeza: my spxoxel export plugin is almost ready
01:45	aldobr	http://pastebin.com/BcNDeN8d
01:45	aldobr	does minetest accept loading ppm textures ?
01:46	kaeza	nice
01:49	hoodedice	The speed dreams guys
01:49	hoodedice	sure know how to take screenshots
01:49	hoodedice	Either my PC sucks, or the game's graphics
01:50	hoodedice	There sure ain't many good realistic FOSS racing games
01:50	hoodedice	(Unrelated: SuperTuxKart is good)
01:50	kaeza	there are no good non-realisitc racing games either :P
01:50	kaeza	tic*
01:51	hoodedice	There's TuxKart
01:51	kaeza	I just play Gran Turismo with ePSXe
01:51	kaeza	or boot Windows for NFS:MW
01:51	hoodedice	PSOne material though. Not even close to crash bandicoot's kart game on PS2
01:51	hoodedice	You still play MW?
01:51	hoodedice	=)
01:52	hoodedice	Gran turismo =3
01:52	kaeza	yea
01:52	kaeza	my graphics card is too crappy for anything better =(
01:52	hoodedice	Same
01:52	hoodedice	Intel Crapware
01:56	hoodedice	flightgear and speed dreams have two things in common
01:56	hoodedice	1. They are realistic as long as you fly/race realistically
01:57	hoodedice	Once you crash/Go off the tarmac, the realistic art is over
01:57	kaeza	oh dog... TORCS
01:57	hoodedice	2. If you have an intel Crapware... You're gonna have a bad time.
01:57	hoodedice	*baaaaaaad
01:58	hoodedice	*part
01:58	hoodedice	I love the way they take screenshots.
01:58	kaeza	yeah, I have TORCS installed (for whatever reason I don't seem to recall)
01:59	kaeza	the physics system is... "special"
01:59	hoodedice	Indeed
01:59	hoodedice	grass = butter
01:59	hoodedice	Though in sd, grass = rocky mountains
02:01	aldobr	eh.... minetest dont accept ppm textures :P
02:04	* andersje	gets back from the neighborhood party
02:04	andersje	VanessaE: when you get a chance, I'm interested to see what you think of the code I checked in. Very little hurry on it. I did verify that all recipes work, and all existing blocks are mapped
02:05	aldobr	kaeza: do you know if minetest accepts bmp textures ?
02:05	hoodedice	It does do PNG afaik
02:05	kaeza	dunno
02:05	kaeza	any reason for not using PNG?
02:06	aldobr	netpbm tools can convert from ppm to bmp, jpg, but not pgn :$
02:06	andersje	bmp is fairly easily converted to PNG, I can help you with that in linux if you like
02:06	aldobr	err, png
02:06	andersje	using imagemagick, it's trivial to convert, aldobr
02:06	kaeza	get imagemagick
02:06	aldobr	the problem is
02:06	VanessaE	don't use bmp. it's evil.
02:06	kaeza	ninja'd :P
02:06	hoodedice	Can't you just open it up in some image editing rogram and "save as" PNG?
02:07	aldobr	its not for me, its for a plugin, for other users... having then to install imagemagick will create more problems than solve...
02:07	andersje	convert existing.bmp -format png output.png
02:07	andersje	hrm.
02:07	hoodedice	terminal code?
02:07	aldobr	i've wrote a export plugin for a voxel editor
02:07	kaeza	just 'output.png' will do
02:07	aldobr	sproxel
02:07	andersje	hrm.
02:07	aldobr	it can now export nodeboxes
02:07	kaeza	imagemagick infers the file format from the file suffix
02:08	andersje	kaeza: wow, I didn't know that
02:08	aldobr	i am working on the texture exporting part of the code, i can write ppm quite easily
02:09	andersje	sproxel looks cool.
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02:09	aldobr	well, i will use imagemagick
02:09	aldobr	or, try to write python code to export png
02:10	* andersje	nods
02:10	VanessaE	can someone tell me why this code in a Mesecons LuaController is so glitchy and jumpy? http://pastebin.com/YC3eBUy6
02:10	VanessaE	it's sending events like every half second or something
02:10	andersje	http://pythonhosted.org/pypng/png.html -- aldobr, will that help?
02:10	VanessaE	well maybe not every half, but definitely not in 10s and 20s intervals like it should
02:12	aldobr	andersje: thats other route, but i tried to do "import png" and the python interpreter refused
02:12	andersje	aldobr: how interesting.
02:12	aldobr	and i dont know how to include new packages on a embedded python
02:13	* andersje	was once standing in front of a DEC Alpha with a DEC engineer when the machine literally burst into flame.
02:13	andersje	the engineer said: "well, _that's_ interesting."
02:13	aldobr	:P
02:13	kaeza	VanessaE, I think the "if(pin.a)then" part is executing every "tick", thus sending a "turngreen" signal
02:14	VanessaE	yeah but that pin just has a switch on it that's normally off.
02:14	andersje	maybe wrap the whole thing in a sleep 10 equivalent ?
02:14	hoodedice	Why doesn't minetest adopt s six month planfor rollouts?
02:15	andersje	because people add features as they see fit?
02:15	kaeza	VanessaE, have you tried copying the code, re-placing the luaC and pasting the code again?
02:15	kaeza	maybe it's some stale timer or something like that
02:16	hoodedice	What is being interrupted?
02:16	hoodedice	For the code trigger?
02:16	ShadowNinja	VanessaE: Interrurts are triggering the if pin.a. Do if event.type == "on" and event.pin.name == "A" then...
02:17	aldobr	quick python doubt : i have a fully qualified file name (path + file + ext) and i want to change it from ".ppm" to ".png", how to ?
02:17	andersje	string replace.
02:17	VanessaE	ShadowNinja: ahhh
02:17	* andersje	looks up the sytnax for aldobr
02:18	aldobr	ok, im on python guide, thanks
02:18	aldobr	its just <mystring>;replace(".ppm", ".png")
02:18	aldobr	but
02:18	andersje	string.replace(oldstring,"ppm$","png$")
02:18	aldobr	what happens if the path has a .ppm ? (should i care ?)
02:18	andersje	there, that anchors it to the end
02:18	andersje	regex ftw
02:18	aldobr	ahhhh thanks !!!
02:19	kaeza	aldobr, also note that a bare '.' means 'any character'
02:19	andersje	that's why I left the '.'off :) "$" anchors to end of line
02:19	kaeza	asdf.asdfpng matches :P
02:20	andersje	fine.
02:20	VanessaE	ShadowNinja: that fixed it.
02:20	kaeza	the correct way would be "%.png$"
02:20	VanessaE	(the code)
02:20	andersje	string.replace(oldstring,"\.ppm$","\.png$")
02:20	kaeza	andersje, nope
02:21	andersje	how does that not replace the very end?
02:21	* andersje	would argue that the correct way is one that works.
02:22	kaeza	the backslash is catched by Lua before it even gets to the string, so "\.png$" is the same as ".png$"
02:22	kaeza	the escape character for Lua regexes is '%'
02:23	aldobr	its not lua
02:23	aldobr	its python :P
02:23	kaeza	oh derp
02:23	aldobr	and ppm$ is not working
02:23	kaeza	ignore me then :P
02:23	aldobr	:/
02:23	aldobr	convert aldo/textures/aldo_texturetop.ppm aldo/textures/aldo_texturetop.ppm
02:23	aldobr	thats what python is spitting out to os.system
02:24	andersje	yeah, but he's doing it in python
02:24	* andersje	smirks
02:24	andersje	sorry, slow to catch up on scrollback
02:24	andersje	had to supervise the youngest boy brushing his teeth =)
02:24	kaeza	aldobr, almost same thing, except "\." is catched by the Python parser
02:24	kaeza	probably "\\." would work
02:25	kaeza	(or r'\.')
02:25	* andersje	facepalms
02:25	aldobr	well
02:26	andersje	import re
02:26	aldobr	its not string.replace(oldstring, "ppm$", "png$")
02:26	aldobr	its oldstring.replace()
02:26	aldobr	python dont complain now, but still not working
02:26	aldobr	convert aldo/textures/aldo_texturetop.ppm aldo/textures/aldo_texturetop.ppm
02:26	aldobr	ah... that wont work...
02:27	aldobr	thats the call :os.system("convert " + topname + " " + topname.replace("ppm$","png$"))
02:27	aldobr	it even calls convert but with wrong parameters
02:27	andersje	look at re.sub
02:27	andersje	I think that's the one.
02:28	andersje	re.sub('\.ppm','\.png',myoldfilename)
02:28	aldobr	ok
02:28	andersje	sorry, my python is rusty.
02:29	andersje	been a while since I had to crank out much in it.
02:29	andersje	perl, now...perl I could help you out with.
02:29	aldobr	from re import sub
02:29	andersje	heh, you could do it all systemlike.
02:30	andersje	mynewfilename=system("echo $oldfilename \| sed -e 's/\.ppm$\/.png/g'")
02:30	andersje	or somesuch
02:30	aldobr	but that wont work for windows users
02:30	andersje	good point.
02:32	aldobr	ah
02:32	aldobr	stackoverflow.com/questions/541390/extracting-extension-from-filename-in-python
02:32	aldobr	:P
02:35	andersje	slick. better than my approach
02:35	aldobr	now convert dont convert the images
02:36	aldobr	convert is colliding with some default windows xp tool
02:37	aldobr	its calling the wrong app
02:37	aldobr	omg
02:37	aldobr	i give up, user should convert the ppms manuall
02:37	andersje	awesome.
02:37	aldobr	*manually
02:37	andersje	=)
02:38	aldobr	the solution would be to know the path to the correct convert file.... implementing that in python in a portable form would be a whole project on itself
02:40	aldobr	h
02:40	aldobr	hm
02:49	* andersje	nods
02:50	andersje	winders is a problem in and of itself
02:53	aldobr	well irfanview converted the images ok
02:53	aldobr	but minetest dont accept the textures...
02:56	aldobr	oh worked now
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02:58	Inocudom	If anyone is looking for inspiration for a hostile mob, look at the video beyond the link below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYk9WU0LQSc&feature=player_detailpage
02:59	Inocudom	The horror (O.O)! The horror (O.O)!
02:59	andersje	gimp is also available for windows
02:59	Inocudom	Gimp is a good painting program to use. I use it when I need it.
03:00	andersje	omg, I hate wasps
03:00	Sokomine	what does the video show?
03:00	* andersje	nods.
03:00	andersje	"Angry Yellow Jacket Nest"
03:00	andersje	in florida
03:00	andersje	where it never freezes, so bugs are Too Damn Large
03:00	andersje	only implement that as a mob if you also implement flamethrowers
03:01	Inocudom	The video shows a massive yellow jacket nest.
03:01	Sokomine	:-)
03:01	andersje	massive as in "size of a household AC unit"
03:01	andersje	_huge_
03:01	Sokomine	what is an ac unit?
03:01	aldobr	this is sproxel : http://tinypic.com/r/2mn0u48/5
03:01	aldobr	this is the result ingame : http://tinypic.com/r/fmhnpf/5
03:02	aldobr	:/
03:02	Inocudom	It is a massive yellow jacket nest.
03:02	andersje	aldobr: hrm, that's weird.
03:02	andersje	it looks right in your hand, but it goes black when you place it
03:03	Inocudom	I guess lava or fire arrows would work against it (better use the lava.)
03:03	andersje	korean army, doin' it right: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Bo2ro60ro
03:04	andersje	(Korean army sends flamethrower team to knock out wasp nest)
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03:04	aldobr	well, im satisfied for now
03:04	aldobr	thank you all guys
03:04	andersje	aldobr: one of the actually clever people in this channel should be able to help you get that display thing sorted out later :)
03:05	Inocudom	What is sproxel supposed to be? What does it do?
03:05	andersje	voxel model editor
03:05	andersje	like, a gui editor
03:06	Inocudom	AspireMint's nodebox modeling program could look at sproxel for inspiration.
03:07	aldobr	its a voxel editor : image editor that works in 3 dimensions
03:07	Inocudom	Or the two programs could work together. Anything to make the creation of nodeboxes more convenient.
03:08	andersje	what's a nodebox now?
03:08	aldobr	if i suceed, it will alow nodebox editing using sproxel
03:08	aldobr	its 90% done now
03:09	Inocudom	Stairs and slabs in Minetest are examples of nodebox models. Same with the objects of the 3D furniture mod (now part of homedecor.)
03:10	Inocudom	A nodebox is pretty much anything that isn't a full cube, but is 3D.
03:11	andersje	oh, cool. thx
03:12	Inocudom	A very interesting program, aldobr.
03:12	aldobr	this is the current status of the sproxel plugin : http://pastebin.com/dMbVmfvL
03:12	aldobr	if anyone wants to solve the current bugs, feel free :P
03:12	aldobr	im tired
03:12	aldobr	:P
03:12	andersje	if you github that thing, don't forget to track it in ohloh.net
03:13	andersje	(ohloh.net lets you track all your opensource contributions)
03:13	aldobr	i dont know how to use github :/
03:13	andersje	another day, I can walk you through it
03:13	andersje	are you developing on linux or winders?
03:13	aldobr	right now on linux
03:14	aldobr	err... windows
03:14	aldobr	i have dualboot
03:14	aldobr	because of minetest
03:14	aldobr	i use mageia and the minetest version supplied with it is too old, so i reinstalled windows to play it :/
03:14	Inocudom	I only have Windows 7. It usually works well for me.
03:15	Inocudom	Windows 7 64-bit to be specific, which is why I use Fess's 64-bit builds.
03:15	* andersje	okay
03:15	andersje	oh, man, debian/ubuntu has daily builds of minetest
03:16	aldobr	im too used to mandrake/mandriva/mageia to switch
03:16	andersje	I use win7 as my primary desktop, but ssh+X on win7 to connect into a linux server to do development
03:16	aldobr	i tried :/
03:16	andersje	man, I haven't used mandriva in years
03:16	andersje	if you like mandriva, you'll probably like fedora core
03:16	andersje	RPM-based, but FAR more current
03:16	andersje	brb, gotta attend to a child
03:17	Inocudom	Did you know that Xonotic has something called rsync that can update Xonotic builds? I once suggested that Minetest have something like that for Windows users.
03:17	Inocudom	It could make life for Windows build makers easier.
03:17	andersje	oh, man.
03:18	andersje	pushing patches via rsync?
03:18	andersje	urk.
03:18	VanessaE	interesting way to do it
03:18	VanessaE	I thought everyone was moving to torrent for that
03:19	Inocudom	Thing is, however, that rsync might delete maps, texture pack, mods, and config files in the current Minetest folder.
03:19	aldobr	hmm minetest is too small to need torrent, right ?
03:19	VanessaE	yeah
03:19	VanessaE	though games can get big
03:19	VanessaE	(mine is 14 MB)
03:20	Inocudom	The size of Minetest itself is only around 10MB. Xonotic, now, you might need torrent to download it.
03:21	Inocudom	The map for Redcrab's main server is around 10GB supposedly.
03:21	VanessaE	criminy
03:21	VanessaE	mine's only about 2GB
03:21	VanessaE	1.8GB between the two maps
03:21	Inocudom	Still an impressive size for a map, but manageable.
03:23	* andersje	nods
03:23	Inocudom	As I look at the list on the right side of the chat window, I see the names of many members. Some of them are not around anymore.
03:24	andersje	what do you mean?
03:25	Inocudom	One of the names is Kray, who had a server in the 0.2-0.3 days. I don't see any activity from that person lately.
03:26	andersje	ah.
03:26	Inocudom	Towards the beginning of the screenshots thread, you can still find pictures of Kray's old server.
03:26	kahrl	Kray is still around
03:30	andersje	what does the contract in the mobf mod do?
03:31	VanessaE	wonder where khonkhortisan has been lately
03:31	khonkhortisan	playing tome
03:31	VanessaE	haha
03:31	VanessaE	there he is :)
03:35	andersje	I dunno about this search engine in the forums
03:36	VanessaE	the forum search is useless
03:36	* andersje	nods
03:36	VanessaE	better to google with site:minetest.net
03:37	Inocudom	I believe that the contract in mobf gets you a guard or an archer.
03:38	Inocudom	Then the guard of the archer will attack the hostile monsters of mobf.
03:42	* andersje	nods
03:43	andersje	I can buy one that gets me that
03:43	andersje	but I crafted one out of two pieces of paper.
03:43	andersje	and that got me nothing
03:46	Inocudom	Kray is still around?
04:01	VanessaE	now if only there was a way to hide the blinky plant and LuaC that are controlling this traffic light
04:01	* VanessaE	is playing with streets mod on her server.
04:02	VanessaE	oh wait, it does work
04:03	VanessaE	I can mount the LuaC/plant under ground next to it
04:11	VanessaE	khonkhortisan: about the mesecons crossings...they work perfectly, but they still need proper textures
04:12	khonkhortisan	it'll be easier to make textures for them if the wires touch
04:13	VanessaE	true
04:13	VanessaE	but it can't much be helped
04:14	VanessaE	I say just don't worry about the overlap
04:14	VanessaE	no one's gonna mistake it
04:17	VanessaE	shall I just make them?
04:17	khonkhortisan	ok
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04:56	VanessaE	khonkhortisan: I've got them done for the most part, but I'm gonna have to make them 32px to make them look right.
04:56	VanessaE	(they'll still look like 16px though)
04:56	khonkhortisan	half-pixel cutoff?
04:56	VanessaE	because the wires are like 5 pixels wide.
04:56	VanessaE	yeah
05:03	VanessaE	done.
05:11	VanessaE	khonkhortisan: https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/pull/118
05:12	VanessaE	(I could merge it myself but I wanted you to take a look)
05:16	VanessaE	aw shit
05:17	khonkhortisan	crossing isn't in master?
05:17	VanessaE	no, file got renamed or something.
05:17	VanessaE	I'll fix it.
05:19	khonkhortisan	My multirules pull request is open. Is it better for the textures for it to be directed toward master, or toward the branch that is already being requested?
05:20	VanessaE	I'm not sure
05:21	VanessaE	wait, wtf?
05:21	VanessaE	oh yeah
05:21	VanessaE	I see what I did wrong
05:21	VanessaE	yeah
05:21	VanessaE	merge your multi-rules branch
05:21	khonkhortisan	ok
05:21	VanessaE	I'll rebase against whatever you've got now, if necessary
05:22	VanessaE	(or I'll rewrite, whatever)
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05:22	andersje	what's the protocol for taking over one of cornernote's mods?
05:22	VanessaE	just fork it.
05:22	VanessaE	keep the same license
05:22	VanessaE	and develop.
05:22	khonkhortisan	I morged
05:22	khonkhortisan	merged
05:23	khonkhortisan	I think my local copy is the same as that pull request
05:23	MinetestBot	GIT: khonkhortisan commited to Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Merge pull request #112 from khonkhortisan/multi_rules 913e355a71 2013-08-27T22:22:30-07:00 http://git.io/OgsyKQ
05:23	andersje	rock on, thanks
05:23	khonkhortisan	oh lol
05:23	khonkhortisan	I thought VE was asking about cornernote
05:23	khonkhortisan	you're both blue in my client, and the same length
05:23	andersje	heh.
05:25	VanessaE	ok, all cleaned up. lemme re-check that it works as expected
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05:28	VanessaE	khonkhortisan: https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/pull/119
05:41	khonkhortisan	I know how to checkout a branch from another repo as if it was a branch on the same repo, but not if it's also named master.
05:41	VanessaE	Want me to just merge it?
05:42	khonkhortisan	it'll go well with my just merging mine :)
05:42	VanessaE	ok :D
05:43	MinetestBot	GIT: VanessaE commited to Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Merge pull request #119 from VanessaE/master d0fdefb5a6 2013-08-27T22:42:21-07:00 http://git.io/JXLPwQ
05:43	MinetestBot	GIT: VanessaE commited to Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Give crossing proper textures 5516ca58e9 2013-08-27T22:26:00-07:00 http://git.io/wDGSEw
05:46	khonkhortisan	I created a new singleplayer world, it appeared in ~/.minetest/worlds, but my world list only includes the one from inside the source directory.
05:47	VanessaE	it filters by game type
05:47	VanessaE	or did I misread that/
05:48	khonkhortisan	The world in the singleplayer world list is from ~/src/minetest/
05:48	khonkhortisan	When I create new, it gets created, but not added to the list
05:48	VanessaE	odd
05:56	khonkhortisan	I get a segfault in unified inventory. I've been away too long.
05:59	khonkhortisan	I have your hdx texture pack so when it's off the sides are high-rez
05:59	VanessaE	I'm working on new ones as we speak.
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06:00	khonkhortisan	Other than that, it looks normal enough. There's four yellow spots where the textures crossover, the center of the lower wire mimicks the higher wire,
06:00	khonkhortisan	ah, when the high wire is on, the bottom of the lower wire is on. I think that should be switched.
06:01	VanessaE	yeah, can't do much about that, short of putting a solid black bit between the wires maybe
06:01	nore	hi all
06:01	khonkhortisan	just on the bottom though.
06:01	VanessaE	oh, I forgot to check how it looks from underneath
06:01	VanessaE	might just need to di an ^[transformR90 or so
06:01	VanessaE	do*
06:01	VanessaE	hi nore
06:02	khonkhortisan	All four sides of the center currently follow the top wire
06:02	khonkhortisan	actually, six sides.
06:02	khonkhortisan	hi nore
06:03	VanessaE	I know. Impossible to make it look better without either covering it up entirely, or getting proper per-nodebox textures
06:03	khonkhortisan	I'm reminded how happy I am that that (that) wire works now - that.
06:04	VanessaE	yep
06:04	VanessaE	and it is incredibly handy
06:04	khonkhortisan	Could just slap the switch or piston texture in the middle
06:04	aldobr	hi all
06:05	khonkhortisan	hi aldobr
06:06	khonkhortisan	heh - that half-shifted room I made was a protest about the current stair system
06:08	aldobr	im still trying to figure out why minetest renders sproxel-exported objetcs with black textures
06:09	khonkhortisan	I can't play with 120FOV and circuits and a headache and blocks jumping in and out of the fog at the same time...
06:09	khonkhortisan	sproxel?
06:10	aldobr	sproxel is an opensource voxel editor that i found on the net
06:10	aldobr	then i wrote an export plugin for it
06:11	aldobr	it can now export nodeboxes and textures
06:11	khonkhortisan	from sproxel to minetest?
06:11	aldobr	yes
06:12	khonkhortisan	could be the wrong filename, or an unusual image format
06:12	aldobr	nope
06:13	khonkhortisan	Does it work if you duplicate the export completely by hand?
06:13	khonkhortisan	extra transparency layer?
06:14	aldobr	the textures get generated from the voxels on the file
06:14	aldobr	the export module generates six ppm files
06:14	aldobr	the ppm files are converted to png using irfanview
06:15	aldobr	hm
06:15	aldobr	a doubt : is this correct ?
06:15	aldobr	tiles = { 'aldo_texturetop.png', 'aldo_texturebottom.png', 'aldo_textureleft.png', 'aldo_textureright.png', 'aldo_texturefront.png', 'aldo_textureback.png', },
06:19	khonkhortisan	+Y, -Y, +X, -X, +Z, -Z
06:19	khonkhortisan	yeah that's right
06:19	aldobr	:/
06:19	aldobr	the only possible reason is that minetest dont like too small textures
06:19	aldobr	the current ones are 8x8 pixels size
06:20	khonkhortisan	minetest can handle 1x1 textures generated by imagemagick in the last mod loaded, searching all the other nodes for textures and converting them on startup.
06:21	aldobr	:/
06:21	aldobr	makes no sense :/
06:21	khonkhortisan	(I wrote a mod that did that)
06:22	aldobr	i mean, why it does nt work ?
06:22	khonkhortisan	it has the correct drawtype, paramtype2, type = "fixed" and the like?
06:23	khonkhortisan	Does it say anything about generating replacement textures?
06:24	aldobr	nothing about replacement textures, it works as if everything is ok
06:24	aldobr	this is the resulting init.lua file
06:24	aldobr	http://pastebin.com/Fa5FMCZX
06:25	khonkhortisan	the pherentheses in the description stick out to me, I don't know if they make any difference
06:25	khonkhortisan	um
06:25	aldobr	nope
06:25	khonkhortisan	'aldo_texturetop' ?
06:25	khonkhortisan	where's your .png?
06:25	aldobr	folder /textures
06:26	khonkhortisan	The tiles you stated in this chat and the tiles in that paste are not the same.
06:26	aldobr	with or without the .png the thing doesnt work :/
06:27	khonkhortisan	ah
06:30	khonkhortisan	I just checked a local mod, it works with or without the .png :(
06:31	khonkhortisan	if the filename was bad, it would say Could not load image "..." while building texture, which yours doesn't do...
06:32	khonkhortisan	If you move one of your images, does it make that face of the node turn a color other than black?
06:32	khonkhortisan	...headache...
06:33	VanessaE	khonkhortisan: HDX updated.
06:33	VanessaE	khonkhortisan: some wires still don't tile right. doing so means adding more texture files, which I guess we want to avoid if it isn't truly needed.
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06:47	khonkhortisan	had to delete locale/du
06:48	VanessaE	khonkhortisan: also, think you can fix this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=106146#p106146
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06:51	khonkhortisan	odd.
06:53	Calinou	world
06:56	khonkhortisan	today look at the sunshine
06:57	khonkhortisan	If I can fix it, it'll be tomorrow
06:57	VanessaE	sounds fair :)
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07:23	nore	jin_xi, your screenshot with tetris pieces, was is done with your lua-turtle-voxelmanip?
07:25	VanessaE	that screenshot is insane, love it
07:25	aldobr	bye all
07:29	jin_xi	nore: yes, thats the turtle mod and lua generated turtle programs
07:30	jin_xi	then decorations to spawn dummy nodes, and on_generated that spawns a turtle def for every dummy node...
07:38	nore	about the forth-like language you use for the turtle, is it because you programmed in Forth?
07:38	jin_xi	no, just because its easy enough to do, and kinda fun
07:38	jin_xi	for generating stuff its far more comfortable to be using lua
07:39	nore	because I made a mod that provides a computer that you can program in Forth ;)
07:39	nore	and the fun part was to implement an ANS-conforming Forth
07:40	nore	Forth is much more easy to implement than lots of languages...
07:40	jin_xi	i saw that, but my forth experience is minimal. just wanted to be able to use loops and define words for the turtle thing. but its not so good atm, as its still not possible to save stuff.
07:41	jin_xi	also there was a lua forth available and i wrote my own later.
07:41	nore	let's say I discovered Forth about 2 month ago... very simple
07:42	jin_xi	took me soo long to implement do.. loop mainly because i made them run both in interpret and compile mode
07:42	* jin_xi	facepalms
07:42	jin_xi	now its good old compile only and much simpler
07:42	nore	you should use [DO] [LOOP] for interpret mode
07:42	nore	so you don't have to do things like STATE @ IF
07:43	jin_xi	see, idk much about forth... and realize the whole thing was a huge waste of time, but still fun
07:43	jin_xi	as i used lua for all major turtle stuff.
07:43	nore	the thing is, I find it is rather good to learn how a language works
07:44	nore	because it is much easier to program after that...
07:45	jin_xi	yes, its my first time actually implementing a language, and it was fun, but also frustrating at times :)
07:45	nore	me too
07:46	jin_xi	i hoped to be able to use forth to design a "structure format" so everyone can easily define and use them... but it seems very hard
07:46	nore	I had to start over completely 2 times before getting something to work...
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07:49	VanessaE	hey kaeza
07:49	nore	hi
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07:55	nore	hi Zeg9
07:55	Zeg9	Hi!
07:56	nore	you use tor? isn't that a bit slow?
07:56	VanessaE	hey zeg
07:56	VanessaE	paranoid much? :)
07:56	kaeza	hi
07:56	Zeg9	A 1 second delay for irc is ok. I'm used to having a bad connection anyway ;)
07:57	Zeg9	Hi kaeza, VanessaE
07:58	Calinou	suddenly: wolfgame
07:58	Calinou	or trivialand
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08:20	Zeg9	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=107837#p107837
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08:38	nore	Is Calinou there?
08:45		Calinou joined #minetest
08:48	nore	hi
08:48	nore	Calinou, there are still problems with moreblocks
08:48	Calinou	which problem
08:48	nore	junglegrass still doesn't drop cotton seeds
08:48	Calinou	ah
08:49	nore	and you redefine grass 2 times
08:50	nore	but I have a question: what do you redefine grass, junglegrass, etc for?
08:50	Calinou	done
08:50	Calinou	nore: so that they make light pass through
08:51	nore	then you should use code like that: https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/blob/master/compat.lua#L12
08:51	nore	much better
08:51	Calinou	I don't get it
08:52	VanessaE	that code redefines a node without completely overwriting it.
08:52	VanessaE	so you can just change a texture, or just change the description, for example.
08:52	nore	first, you copy the current definition of the node (that is done by clone_node)
08:52	VanessaE	it preserves whatever was already there.
08:52	nore	then you change the def
08:52	nore	then you register that
08:52	nore	(L44)
08:53	VanessaE	indent error at line 77, btw :)
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09:22	nore	hi
09:32	VanessaE	hi
09:33	VanessaE	sfan5: bot error with that last commit I pushed to homedecor
09:33	sfan5	..
09:33	sfan5	hi everyone
09:34	VanessaE	sfan5: http://pastebin.com/tbXw3XKh
09:34	sfan5	saw that
09:34	sfan5	git.io's fault
09:34	VanessaE	heh
09:34	nore	hi
09:34	nore	sfan5, could you update the technic_game server?
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09:35	sfan5	nore: update what(mod)?
09:35	aldobr	hi all
09:35	nore	technic, forth_computer, moreblocks, pipeworks
09:35	nore	hi
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09:45	nore	proller, is #688 in next?
09:46	nore	hi
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10:05	proller	nore, yes, https://github.com/proller/minetest/commits/next --> Merge remote-tracking branch 'Novatux/forceload' into next
10:05	nore	no, #688 is tool callback
10:06	proller	ups. wait..
10:32	proller	nore, conflict, rebase it
10:32	nore	in lua_api.txt?
10:33	proller	https://github.com/proller/minetest/blob/next_tools/util/next/minetest.log#L323
10:33	proller	yes
10:34	nore	couldn't just skip the conflicts in lua_api.txt, because there will be a lot because of the different pull requests
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10:35	proller	i use automatic merge tool
10:35	proller	to skip files need to improve it
10:35	proller	not now
10:36	nore	ok, but does it conflict with master or with one of the other pulls?
10:37	proller	ÑŒÑ„Ñ‹ÐµÑƒÐº
10:37	proller	master
10:38	nore	ok, thanks
10:44	sfan5	nore: technic server updated
10:46	jin_xi	can v7 mapgen do flat worlds? im trying to set it for a game mode with mg_flags = flat, but my world is not
10:49	jin_xi	hm, well it seems it cant.
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10:51	pitriss	Hi all, I want to ask: is possible to force MT client to log ingame chat when I'm playing online?
10:51	PenguinDad	jin_xi: You could make a mod that generates terrain out of one node
10:52	jin_xi	well, i was just hoping i could use a flat world to get a better feel for how biomes work, but its no biggie
10:56	sfan5	pitriss: by modifying the source, yes
10:57	pitriss	sfan5: ahh, thats bit far beyond my skills:)
10:58	sfan5	it is easy if you know C++
10:58	pitriss	sfan5: but thanks anyway:)
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10:58	pitriss	sfan5: nope I'm not programer, I'm bit scripter (Bash/ruby)
10:59	sfan5	ruby \o/
10:59	PenguinDad	weird bug: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=107833#p107833
11:01	pitriss	So I will hope that someone will implement chat logging into client:)
11:01	PenguinDad	sfan5: if it's easy do it :P
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11:16	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
11:17	PenguinDad	hi PilzAdam!
11:18	jojoa1997\|Tablet	Bbl
11:24	KikaRz	Hello PilzAdam
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11:32	nore	hi
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12:06	Jordach	!op
12:06		Topic for #minetest is now http://minetest.net \| NEWS: Minetest 0.4.7 released \| RULES: be patient, respect other users, here and in other channels \| CORE DEVS: #minetest-dev \| SERVERS: http://minetest.net/servers \| IRC LOGS: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ \| WIKI: http://wiki.minetest.net \| Sandwich of the day: Cheese and Ham
12:06	nore	Jordach, you should come on the technic_game server
12:07	Jordach	nore, john_minetest; not too much at once
12:07	Jordach	Jordach:Overload(100)
12:08	Jordach	fuck skaven ambiance, 80's rock ftw
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12:26	PenguinDad	john_minetest: true :D
12:26	* Calinou	puts Rarity on john_minetest's head
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13:08	andersje	!seen spaier
13:08	MinetestBot	andersje: Sorry, I haven't seen spaier around.
13:08	andersje	!seen sapier
13:08	MinetestBot	andersje: Sorry, I haven't seen sapier around.
13:08	andersje	!seen sapier1
13:08	MinetestBot	andersje: sapier1 was last seen at 2013-08-27 21:17:26 UTC on #minetest
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13:13	thefamilygrog66	Howdy folks
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13:16	Peacock	bas i liked your noncubic mod api, but it was missing the sideways slope
13:17	Peacock	sideways:for i = 0, detail-1 doslopebox[i+1]={(i/detail)-0.5,-0.5, (i/detail)-0.5, (i/detail)-0.5+(1/detail),0.5, 0.5}end
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13:38	MinetestBot	john_minetest: zeg9 was last seen at 2013-08-28 08:18:28 UTC on #minetest
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14:00	PenguinDad	you need black magic when nm is broken >:O
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14:15	PenguinDad	john_minetest: yes
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14:18	PenguinDad	Xubunt 13.04
14:18	PenguinDad	+u
14:19	Jordach	Mint 15 ftw
14:20	PenguinDad	Mint uses nm too :P
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14:33	PenguinDad	I think I'll try #!
14:33	Peacock	#! ftw
14:33	Peacock	its like debian/ubuntu without the 7 course meal :p
14:34	Peacock	nvidia drivers work fine on #1! for the p4
14:34	Peacock	*#!
14:35	Peacock	but good sections of the arch docs for nvidia are outdated
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14:36	Mossmanikin	Hi folks
14:36	PenguinDad	I don't have worry about Nvidia because I use AMD :D
14:36	Peacock	#! is more or less like archbang but without having to use a combination of pacman + aur helper to get stuff installed
14:37	PenguinDad	+ to
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14:39	PenguinDad	dhbiker: interesting quit message
14:39	dhbiker	it's random :p
14:40	PenguinDad	Markov chains algorithm? :P
14:40	dhbiker	nah
14:40	dhbiker	picks random line in text file
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14:49	Peacock	well i switched away from arch because i had trouble installing nvidia, thats why im on #! now
14:49		jojoa joined #minetest
14:50	PenguinDad	lol
14:50		jojoa joined #minetest
14:50	Peacock	nouveau's fine if you dont watch high quality movies, otherwise i cant stand the constant whizzing of the fan lol
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14:55	Mossmanikin	I'm a bit confused; in the readme of default it first says "License of media ... (CC BY-SA 3.0)", then further below there's something like "Author (different license)". Does this mean both licenses apply to the work?
14:56	PenguinDad	Mossmanikin: Where?
14:56	nore	Mossmanikin, I think that it means that you choose whatever license of those two
14:56	Mossmanikin	In the README.txt of the mod "default" in "minet_game"
14:57	Mossmanikin	*minetest_game
14:58	Mossmanikin	nore: that's what I was hoping
14:58	PenguinDad	Mossmanikin: the work that isn't listed there is under CC BY-SA 3.0
14:58	Mossmanikin	PenguinDad: Thanks. :)
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15:01	PilzAdam	Mossmanikin, we distribute it as CC BY-SA, but some license are also released by their authors under a more free license (like WTFPL)
15:02	PilzAdam	*some textures
15:02	Mossmanikin	PilzAdam: Thanks. :)
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15:39	sfan5	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAExBTWIp3M
15:40	sfan5	!title
15:40	MinetestBot	sfan5: Nintendo 2DS - Introduction - YouTube
15:40	sfan5	^ lawl
15:43	KikaRz	Let's see.
15:44	KikaRz	Stupid shit for them, to get money.
15:44	KikaRz	It's just a normal Nintendo DS with 3DS games support
15:44	sfan5	but without 3d
15:44	KikaRz	Yea
15:44	sfan5	<Dinnerbone> And has the controls in a stupid position
15:44	KikaRz	... Can't understand that.
15:44	KikaRz	Yea Dinnerbone.
15:44	sfan5	and it doesn't fold
15:45	sfan5	http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/08/2ds.jpg
15:46	KikaRz	fold?
15:46	KikaRz	Oh
15:46	KikaRz	close
15:46	KikaRz	SO SHITTY
15:46	KikaRz	Not very portable
15:50	PenguinDad	I'm waiting for Nintendo 1DS :P
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16:02	webdesigner97	hi.
16:02	sfan5	hi
16:03	webdesigner97	Can someone tell me why my car doesn't want to move:
16:03	webdesigner97	(w8)
16:03	KikaRz	Windows (?
16:03	KikaRz	*8?
16:03	KikaRz	Well, this channel isn't for mechanical problems.
16:03	webdesigner97	http://pastebin.com/LYmh2k9M
16:03	KikaRz	Did you tried to shutdown and turn on again?
16:04	KikaRz	:P
16:04	webdesigner97	I'm modding, not playing ;)
16:04	webdesigner97	The if statement works, I tried a minetest.chat_send_all(), but the entity just doesn't move
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16:05	webdesigner97	hi ruben
16:06	rubenwardy	hi
16:06	PenguinDad	rÃ¼bensirup :D
16:06	webdesigner97	ah, no.
16:06	webdesigner97	I think I found the bug
16:08	webdesigner97	later in code, I executed bla:setacceleration({x=0,y=0,z=0})
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16:13	webdesigner97	bye
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16:57	Peacock	what exactly causes all the inventory images to be fucked up? too many nodes, or nodeboxes, or textures?
16:57	PilzAdam	too many inventory textures
16:58	PilzAdam	Minetest renders them at startup for each node
16:58	Peacock	allright, so reducing either 3 will fix it?
16:58	PilzAdam	I dont know why but old cards cant handle it right
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16:58	Peacock	well the p4's card ain't old :/
16:58	Peacock	changed it last year
16:59	Peacock	with an OTS not some old ebay find lol
16:59	PilzAdam	yea, new cards + tons of nodes aint good either
16:59	Peacock	yeah, i brought my inventory back under 6 pages and it works fine on the p4 now
16:59	PilzAdam	Preload Item Visuals really helps if you dont scroll through the whole creative inv after startup
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17:00	Peacock	if all my seeds use the same texture, does it count as seperate inv images or 1 ?
17:01	PilzAdam	1, I guess
17:01	PilzAdam	setting inventory_image for nodes seems to help
17:01	Peacock	crosses fingers lol well i got some cleaning up lol thanks
17:02	PilzAdam	I wonder if it helps if you use inventory_image = minetest.inventorycube(...) for all nodes
17:02	Peacock	well i thought that was obsolete when minetest started rendering tils{}?
17:02	Peacock	*tiles{}
17:02	PilzAdam	hm?
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17:03	Peacock	well i mean before you had to use inventory cube, but now it does it automatically
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17:03	PilzAdam	I think the algorithm for that is different
17:03	PilzAdam	dunno
17:04	Peacock	hm, you'd have to ask whoever came up with inventory cube and the subsequent method :/
17:04	PenguinDad	*tiles
17:04	kahrl	they both use RTT
17:04	PilzAdam	kahrl rewrote the whole thing to be faster, I guess he knows it
17:04	kahrl	which can be slow
17:04	PilzAdam	there he is :-)
17:04	Peacock	well since i have like 20 shapes for every mblocks, i cut out 6 mblocks and it seems to load fine on the p4
17:05	Peacock	also got rid of the nightclub glasses since they all look kinda funny with alpha
17:05	Peacock	(overlapping nodebox + alpha)
17:06	Peacock	im guessing even if you do not_in_creative = 1 and drop = '', it still creates an inventory image?
17:07	PenguinDad	i think so
17:07	PilzAdam	adding a flag to not render the inventory image at startup is on some TODO list
17:08	Peacock	perhaps not_in_creative = 2 could be used to avoid creating an inv. image too
17:08	Peacock	ah lol
17:08	Peacock	would be useful, like say moretrees, you have horizontal and verticle tree trunks, but they both drop the same thing
17:09	kahrl	why don't they use 6d facedir?
17:09	Peacock	its a pita to figure out for a lot of modders :P
17:09	kahrl	I guess param2/vmanip issues?
17:09	Jordach	kahrl, can you explain what RTT = X.XXX IS
17:09	Peacock	well say slope for example
17:09	Jordach	is*
17:10	PilzAdam	moretrees uses L-system, not Luavmanip
17:10	kahrl	PilzAdam: oh
17:10	kahrl	but L-system don't let you set param2 either, do they
17:10	Peacock	its default configuration is sloping downwards, but say you want upside down slope, how do you place it that way, without using a screwdriver on each node?
17:11	Peacock	thats how i endup with slode down and slope up
17:11	kahrl	Jordach, no, never bothered about it
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17:11	PilzAdam	no, L-system doesnt have param2 support either
17:11	Calinou	<Peacock> well the p4's card ain't old :/
17:11	Calinou	what card is it
17:11	Peacock	same thing with upper and lower slab, i'd hate to have to use a screwdriver half the time
17:11	Calinou	if the inv images are fuffed up then it's a bad card
17:12	Peacock	calinou it was working fine until i added too many nodes (6pages instead of 5)
17:12	Peacock	ultimately i think the solution might be to look at item place, and use get_look_dir() to determine if placing an item up/down
17:13	Jordach	kahrl, heh, i've had that question since 0.2
17:14	Peacock	cuz blockscape does that, if youre looking down, it places (ex slab) down, but if youre looking up, then its an upper slab
17:14	kahrl	Jordach: but I can guess. It's the average round trip time reported by the connection to the server
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17:14	PenguinDad	dtime == drawtime?
17:14	kahrl	PenguinDad: bingo
17:14	Jordach	kahrl, sounds righyt
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17:27	Peacock	whats the 6d param2 value for upside down? (no other rotation)
17:29	nore	an half-turn around the x axis?
17:30	Peacock	well say stair -> upside down stair, whats the p2 value for that?
17:30	Peacock	(testing the look_dir placement thing i talked about)
17:30	nore	dunno, but there can't be "no other rotation"
17:30	nore	and try minetest.dir_to_param2(dir, true)
17:31	Peacock	well item_place already does that, but it doesn't place things upside down when looking up (slopes, stairs)
17:31	PilzAdam	Peacock, https://github.com/PilzAdam/common/commit/d3e1186443778ace5733a70f748813885246bbef#L0R71
17:31	nore	set second param=true
17:32	nore	that takes 6d
17:32	PilzAdam	dont ask me how this works, I found that by trial and error :-)
17:32	Peacock	lol thats pretty much how i was gonna do it lol is it in yet?
17:32	PilzAdam	no, its kinda hacky
17:33	PilzAdam	I guess it would be best to add a param2 param to item_place() in the engine
17:33	Peacock	i was thinking using group vertical_place(ment) =1 and check if the player is looking up or down
17:33	nore	PilzAdam: or even an param2 to items
17:34	nore	PilzAdam: is the media cache per-server?
17:35	PilzAdam	no
17:35	Peacock	using nore's method would that fuck up things that aren't meant to be upside down?
17:35	nore	or is the old one deleted
17:35	PilzAdam	"old one"?
17:35	PilzAdam	it caches them hash based
17:36	Peacock	minetest.dir_to_param2(dir, true) or minetest.dir_to_facedir(dir,true) ?
17:37	PilzAdam	facedir
17:37	nore	yes, facedir, I just didn't know the name
17:37	Peacock	aiight thats what i found in item.lua :-)
17:38	Peacock	ugh, i put 30001, and it says failed to bind socket, and drops me back to menu with port 30K :/
17:38	Peacock	30012 worked though lol
17:39	Peacock	damn, it worked
17:40	Peacock	now i can get rid of all my upside down variants :-) sweet thanks nore
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18:22	Peacock	found it! two weeks ago i got a noodlecup without the dryed-out veggies, now i got one with two packs lol
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18:27	jojoa1997	anyone know how to make enriched uranium in technic
18:27	PilzAdam	send it to Iran
18:27	jojoa1997	not funny i have lost 8 lumps to different machines
18:28	Peacock	lol
18:28	Peacock	north korea?
18:29	jojoa1997	really
18:30	jojoa1997	i cant find it anywhere in the mod
18:31		NakedFury joined #minetest
18:34	Jordach	should be the compressor
18:34	Jordach	iirc, it's a MV or HV machine
18:37		Mati^1 joined #minetest
18:38	* Mati^1	//whois RealBadAngel??
18:39	PenguinDad	Mati^1: he's a polish minetest developer
18:39	Mati^1	LOL
18:40	Mati^1	who darf ich im finden
18:40	Peacock	english on this channel :P
18:40	PilzAdam	denglish ftw!
18:40	PenguinDad	you mean where
18:41	PenguinDad	denglish from berlin ftw :P
18:41	Peacock	im already running half my ingame chat through to the translator lol no need for that here :p
18:42	PenguinDad	Mati^1: AFAIK he's on vacation
18:42	Mati^1	sorry but my englich not good ;) yes where??
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18:43	Mati^1	ok thx
18:43	PenguinDad	er ist auf reisen
18:43	Mati^1	where??
18:43	Mati^1	hehehe
18:43	Mati^1	who??
18:43	PenguinDad	i don't know
18:43	Mati^1	me 2
18:43	Mati^1	;)
18:46	Mati^1	thx
18:47	PenguinDad	and Maciek from Berlin is gone :)
18:48	thexyz	http://orteil.dashnet.org/cookieclicker/ anyone?
18:49	PenguinDad	!title
18:49	MinetestBot	PenguinDad: Cookie Clicker
18:49	PenguinDad	thexyz: what's that?
18:49	thexyz	hehehe
18:51	thexyz	PenguinDad: just try it
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18:53	proller	thexyz, 503
18:53	jin_xi	^
18:54	thexyz	hm, works for me
19:09	sfan5	proller: reload
19:09	sfan5	got 503 too
19:09	PilzAdam	thexyz, thx, now Im addicted again
19:10	proller	who finished Anti Idle?
19:11		john_minetest joined #minetest
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19:15		notceleron55 joined #minetest
19:15	notceleron55	Ta Da
19:15		Menche joined #minetest
19:15	notceleron55	Grasshopper chirp
19:16	hoodedice	PPeacock
19:16	hoodedice	Peacock
19:18	Jordach	nope
19:20	hoodedice	Jordach
19:20	hoodedice	Skins
19:20	hoodedice	?
19:21	PenguinDad	A movie of Skin and Skills
19:21	PenguinDad	*Skins
19:21	hoodedice	Jordach: Wiki page you could fill out
19:21	hoodedice	http://wiki.minetest.net/index.php?title=Using_Blender&action=edit&redlink=1
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19:54	PenguinDad	segfault because of this " int32_t *__restrict __result) __THROW __nonnull ((1, 2));" :(
19:54		TheLastProject joined #minetest
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19:55	hoodedice	minetest?
19:56	PenguinDad	it's some bug in stdlib.h that breaks virtually my whole system
19:59	PenguinDad	but i have no clue how to fix that )':
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20:01	hoodedice	Peacock
20:01	hoodedice	I don't even know what that is
20:02	PenguinDad	hoodedice: me too
20:03	PenguinDad	!g stdlib.h
20:03	MinetestBot	PenguinDad: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/cstdlib/
20:05	hoodedice	EXIT_FAILURE
20:05	hoodedice	This looks good
20:11	PenguinDad	that don't help me :(
20:15	jojoa1997	bbl
20:16	jordan4ibanez	Why don't the mods load?
20:16	jordan4ibanez	Do they have to depend on the default mod?
20:18	jordan4ibanez	Oh joinplayer doesn't get called in singleplayer or something.
20:19	PilzAdam	jordan4ibanez, have you enabled the mods?
20:20	jordan4ibanez	Well they're in the mod list
20:20	kahrl	some things don't work in on_joinplayer, have you tried print?
20:20	jordan4ibanez	That doesn't work for the mod loading or the joinplayer
20:20	kahrl	which mod list did you check?
20:21	sfan5	ohai jordan4ibanez..
20:21	jordan4ibanez	The one at the main menu
20:21	kahrl	is your mod green?
20:21	PilzAdam	jordan4ibanez, use the one in the "Configure" button at the world list
20:22	PenguinDad	does anyone know help with my problem?
20:23	sfan5	PenguinDad: that line doesn't look like a valid function definition
20:23	kahrl	sometimes a mod that is enabled is not loaded (e.g. because of a name collision)
20:23	sfan5	what are the lines before that line?
20:23	jordan4ibanez	Oh that actually has a use now
20:23	kahrl	the /mods command helps to see what mods were actually loaded
20:24	PenguinDad	sfan5: i'll paste it
20:25	PenguinDad	sfan5: http://pastebin.com/y1aE2Kyi
20:26	sfan5	try replacing the first line with "#if 0"
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20:29	kahrl	PenguinDad: I've had the compiler crash like that a couple times
20:29	kahrl	in all cases it was faulty ram
20:29	Calinou	or bad kernel
20:29	thexyz	or, well, bad compiler
20:29	sapier	I count 1 for faulty ram
20:30	thexyz	because when this reproduces regardless of kernel version, OS, real or virtualized hardware
20:30	sapier	as we all have lots and lots of ram nowadays most machines run quite good with faulty ram just compilers tend to use everything
20:31	Evergreen	Hey everyone, someone just asked what linux distribuition would be good for them in off topic. GET ON IT PEOPLE
20:31	Evergreen	:D
20:32	PenguinDad	now everything works fine O_O
20:32	PenguinDad	thx sfan5
20:33	* Calinou	throws 14 sticky bombs on that topic
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20:44	jordan4ibanez	so I have a position
20:44	jordan4ibanez	How do I, say, get the X value of it?
20:45	PenguinDad	the x value of a player or an node?
20:45	jordan4ibanez	A position
20:45	jordan4ibanez	Node
20:48	sfan5	pos.x ?
20:48		daswort joined #minetest
20:49	jordan4ibanez	Whoops
20:49	harrison	http://youtu.be/Oz5nhSnArCg
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20:52	VanessaE	kahrl: I give up, I have to turn remote_media on on the servers. The servers can't handle the bandwidth demands. Please push the http_fetch ASAP if you can.
20:53	NekoGloop	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl7O8_kWeOc
20:53	Peacock	on on? :P
20:53	thexyz	VanessaE: you give up on what?
20:54	VanessaE	thexyz: trying to let my local machine handle the downloads.
20:55	VanessaE	my servers are starting to get popular and it's outstripping my local bandwidth a bit
20:55	thexyz	without remote_media?
20:55	VanessaE	yeah.
20:55	VanessaE	people sign on, media goes out, causes lag for players that are already on.
20:55	jordan4ibanez	How big is a block?
20:56	thexyz	VanessaE: yes, that was what I made remote_media for
20:56	thexyz	I also wanted to make an option to disable non-remote media
20:56	NekoGloop	Also can we fix the thing where we HAVE to download media every time? kthxbai
20:56	PenguinDad	161616 nodes
20:56	VanessaE	well I have already set it up and tested it, I just don't use it because it doesn't reliably send (or clients can't reliably fetch) .x files.
20:57	ShadowNinja	Should the Minetest wiki allow content form other mods or just default?
20:57	VanessaE	kahrl already figured out why.
20:57	ShadowNinja	from*
20:57	thexyz	VanessaE: that's really strange; and why?
20:57	VanessaE	hence his http_fetch stuff.
20:57	VanessaE	something about the timing between a sign-on and the receipt of the media and when the client is told that you signed on
20:57	thexyz	ah, right
20:57	VanessaE	you get the media too late in the cycle
20:57	VanessaE	and so the client ignores it or something
20:58	sfan5	good night everyone
20:59	kahrl	well, good news: I finished coding the support for multiple remote_media servers
20:59	kahrl	need to test it now I guess
20:59	PenguinDad	night everyone
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21:07	VanessaE	thexyz: forum bug: If there are [url][/url] tags nested inside [spoiler][/spoiler] tags, it'll cause a re-flow error in the page.
21:08	VanessaE	e.g. [spoiler="Show details..."] Some text here blah blah blah [url]http://foo.com[/url] more stuff here [/spoiler]
21:12	VanessaE	thexyz: can you get rid of the extra whitespace that shows above/below/left of a spoiler link, btw?
21:13	VanessaE	(so that it can be "blended" into the post better)
21:15	thexyz	VanessaE: what's with this reflow issue? http://i.imgur.com/9iNpttf.png
21:15	VanessaE	here, I'll make it happen...
21:15	VanessaE	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4057
21:16	VanessaE	just now happened there.
21:16	VanessaE	it breaks at the mods list
21:16	VanessaE	oops, that wasn't the error (but the effect is the same). that was a typo.
21:17	VanessaE	ok maybe it's just typos that cause it.
21:17	thexyz	uuuummm
21:17	VanessaE	I accidentally wrote [spoiler="blah"] etc etc etc [/spoiler[
21:18	thexyz	yes, I see that
21:19	VanessaE	figured I may as well put them to use to condense my servers' posts since that's allowed :)
21:20	thexyz	that's what they're for
21:20	VanessaE	nod
21:21	VanessaE	they are useful actually.
21:21	VanessaE	wonder if I can wrap them in an image button somehow ... :-)
21:24	thexyz	that's a bad idea
21:24	VanessaE	eh, I'll leave them as text links.
21:25	NakedFury	hi
21:25	NakedFury	how are you all?
21:25	VanessaE	hey NF.
21:29	NakedFury	any post on forums with new development?
21:32	VanessaE	haven't seen anything special, most of it happens here or -dev as usual
21:32	VanessaE	or in the changelog and TODO's
21:34	Peacock	anyone else wondering where the other hand is? http://cheezburger.com/7763985408
21:36	Peacock	you gotta wonder where they find these creepy volunteers lol
21:41	jordan4ibanez	Minetest just stopped allowing me to generate worlds, it won't create or delete the world, all it does is create the folder, but doesn't create the world in the menu
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22:02	jin_xi	seashell attempt... sigh http://i.imgur.com/Ycg469d.jpg
22:03	VanessaE	neat
22:03	NekoGloop	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxyFwDQN08s I love this song
22:03	VanessaE	looks sorta like a Dairy Queen ice cream cone :)
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22:05	jin_xi	problem mainly is that this stuff lags too much. tetris pieces was ok to explore and generate terrain in singleplayer (about 10k nodes a piece). shells are laggy as hell
22:06	proller	try generating from c++ ;)
22:07	thexyz	we need binary api
22:08	Peacock	luajit is sposed to have the bitwise operators from lua 5.2
22:09		john_minetest left #minetest
22:09	Peacock	or an api for c/cpp mods?
22:11	proller	yes, but binary mods harder to install
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22:12	notsleeping	Peacock
22:12	Peacock	?
22:12	hoodedice	Ta Da
22:12	hoodedice	So what exactly did you do to the server
22:12	hoodedice	?
22:13	thexyz	of course they will be harder to install
22:13	Peacock	moved the boundaries
22:13	Peacock	theyre marked in the op
22:13	hoodedice	Do I lose my dome?
22:13	hoodedice	(Or will you make another one?
22:13	hoodedice	*)
22:13	Peacock	how would you install a c/cpp mod anyhow, by patching minetest or?
22:14	thexyz	as a user I'd prefer just to utilize scheme like minetest/mods/binary_mod/*.cpp; then just run make from Minetest root which would build all mods (loadable .so/.dll)
22:14	hoodedice	patching prolly
22:14	thexyz	nope, not patching
22:14	sapier	binary mods?
22:14	thexyz	this is not minecraft
22:14	jin_xi	the point of binary api is no patching/recompiling needed
22:14	sapier	why?
22:14	hoodedice	=)
22:14	Peacock	the modders could simply provide .dlls then?
22:15	proller	.so ;)
22:15	sapier	I asked WHY?
22:15	sapier	what do you expect to be better than lua mods?
22:15	Peacock	faster
22:15	thexyz	Peacock: yeah; but not portable
22:15	hoodedice	luaJIT mods
22:15	jin_xi	for maek them closed source of course...
22:15	sapier	just because something is binary it's not faster
22:15	thexyz	faster, more things that can be done (if implemented properly)
22:15	hoodedice	I KNOW!
22:15	hoodedice	Mods in assembly !
22:15	hoodedice	XD
22:16	Peacock	well anyone with half a brain can reverse engineer most of the mods out there anyhow
22:16	thexyz	oh, are you saying same C++ code will not be faster than Lua/LuaJIT?
22:16	VanessaE	6502 assembly ftw! :)
22:16	Peacock	assembly lol
22:16	sapier	I once benchmarked pathfinding algorithm luajit was faster than -O1 compile
22:16	jin_xi	thexyz: mine probably not...
22:16	thexyz	well, then
22:16	khonkhortisan	C++ has access to more libraries
22:16	hoodedice	"anyone with half a brain"
22:16	thexyz	you can spawn thread from C++ I guess
22:16	hoodedice	Therefore, I'm missing half of my brain
22:17	khonkhortisan	I have a whole brain, so I can't
22:17	khonkhortisan	half a brain or more
22:17	thexyz	sapier: can you show me your benchmark code/results?
22:17	Peacock	>= (brain/2)
22:18	PilzAdam	Peacock, error: "brain" is nil
22:18	Peacock	chunky mods would run faster anyhow
22:18	sapier	I guess you already saw them thexyz I posted a link as of pathfinding merge
22:19	thexyz	sapier: I probably was sleeping
22:19	sapier	-02 is slightly faster than luajit but other things have far more influence to performance than what language is used
22:20	sapier	e.g. precaching of map gave a big performance boost on lua while it didn't make a change inc ++
22:20	Peacock	so many people with an aversion to cpp mods lol
22:20	Peacock	better than JS lol
22:20	sapier	most time someone pretends to require c++ for performance reason she/he is just to lazy to find the bottlenecks in her/his code
22:21	thexyz	sapier: yeah, sure
22:21	hoodedice	Why not support both?
22:21	proller	luajit 5-10 times slower than c++
22:21	sapier	because we have to maintain both
22:21	sapier	no it isn't proller
22:21	Peacock	coming from the guy who wrote mobf lol
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22:22	hoodedice	C++ for carts, mobf and stuff aka mods known to lag
22:22	proller	sapier, in api use with lot of core calls - yes
22:22	sapier	some things are faster others do match c++ performance (dependant on optimization compiler etc)
22:22	thexyz	sapier: okay, another reason: api sucks
22:22	sapier	if you do only map access it may be even factor 100
22:22	hoodedice	later
22:22	sapier	so you want to do double maintenance effort thexyz?
22:22	proller	sapier, one thing faster in synthetic test?
22:23	sapier	provide a stable binary interface ... all those things are required if you want to support binary mods
22:23	thexyz	there's no STL
22:23	thexyz	sapier: I was merely saying that it would be useful
22:24	sapier	I don't deny it would be good for some things ... but is is really worth the exploding complexity?
22:24	thexyz	no idea
22:24	Peacock	couldn't you have like, 1 api and wrappers or wtv theyre called for both langs?
22:25	sapier	imho no ... and I haven't even takjed about security issues
22:25	thexyz	then we will have two shitty APIs
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22:25	thexyz	instead of one
22:25	sapier	you'll have to apis anyway
22:26	Peacock	in that case a seperate binary api would probably still be a good idea
22:26	sapier	if you provide binary mods you need to provide a interface similar to lua too ... no way to explain why you can't do simple things in one but in the other
22:26	thexyz	but binary one could just give us direct access to data, couldn't it?
22:26	Peacock	imagines entities and world/terrain editing that doesn't lag lol
22:26	sapier	no it couldn't as direct accces will break on any change of data even adding things won't be possible anymore
22:27	thexyz	sapier: how would it break?
22:27	sapier	if you add a member to a class but binary mod is compiled against a version without that member it will grab something completely different
22:28	Peacock	well the same thing happens to the api doesn't it?
22:28	sapier	no it doesn't
22:28	kaeza	FWIW, libs like SDL have version checking APIs
22:28	sapier	a additional member in a lua table is no problem at all
22:28	kaeza	also, greetings
22:28	Peacock	on_punch(pos,node,puncher) still got a bunch of shit to fix there lol
22:28	Peacock	(in mods)
22:28	NekoGloop	Â°âŠ”Â°
22:29	thexyz	sapier: hm, I suggested recompiling
22:29	sapier	even signature changes are no issue in lua mods
22:29	thexyz	binary-only mods are no-no
22:29	sapier	then it's not binary mods but source level mods ... I'd consider that to be "patches"
22:30	thexyz	at the same time binary only mods can be provided in alternative Minetest distributions
22:30	sapier	imho we should not split forces to develop two different incompatible apis but use all forces to fix those problems left in lua api ... we managed to fix a lot the last months
22:31	Peacock	well compile time on dualcore is pretty fast, thats not something i'd mind doing for faster/more complex mods
22:31	sapier	peacock what exactly is your problem you wanna fix with binary mods?
22:32	Peacock	lag?
22:32	Peacock	theres a reason i dont run mobs or mesecons or the whole shebang lol
22:32	sapier	LOL you want to fix a network issue by compiling?
22:32	Peacock	not network lag, game lag
22:32	Peacock	as in fucking slow and choppy gameplay
22:32	Peacock	lol
22:32	sapier	game lag is due to buggy mods
22:33		Miner_48er joined #minetest
22:33	Peacock	so mobf being slow is entirely your fault?
22:33	sapier	I fixed a lots of major issues in mobf recently
22:33	thexyz	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=107953#p107953 PA:âœ“ PR:âœ—
22:33	sapier	some bugs have been pretty silly .. so yes they were my fault
22:34	thexyz	sapier: so can mobf now be used on a public server?
22:34		hoodedice joined #minetest
22:34	sapier	I'm currently testing mobf on a single core server with no noticable lag
22:34	Peacock	heck BS has got it's version of mesecons built-into the game, probably for good reason
22:34	thexyz	sapier: how many players?
22:34	hoodedice	Looks like the captcha is out of captchas
22:34	Peacock	how many other mods?
22:35	sapier	current main lag cause in mobf is pathfinding
22:35	hoodedice	Peacock
22:35	sapier	if you disable this there's no big issue left
22:35	sapier	ironicaly pathfinding is in core ;-P
22:36	sapier	atm 2 players typicaly 50 mobs active ... thus load roughly equivalent to 52 player server without mobf
22:36		Someguy123 joined #minetest
22:36	thexyz	uh
22:36	thexyz	can it handle that much?
22:36	sapier	my current record is at 200 mobs
22:36	thexyz	I mean, last public stress test we did, how many players were there?
22:36	sapier	causing about 30% cpu load on a single core system (typicaly)
22:37	sapier	on mapgen load is up to 70% ... if pathfinding issues occurr more
22:37	kahrl	a mob shouldn't cause as much load on the server as a player
22:37	sapier	the current version is pretty new
22:37	thexyz	about 30-40 maybe? that already was eating 100% cpu; maybe it's the time to do stress test again?
22:37	kahrl	I mean, it doesn't add active blocks or send network packets
22:37	sapier	a mob causes about same load as a player no way to reduce that
22:38	thexyz	it calls pathfinding functions, unlike player
22:38	kahrl	thexyz: true
22:38	sapier	of course but I'd suggest disabling pathfinding this is known to cause cpu load
22:38	thexyz	for players thouse are implemented in hardware
22:39	hoodedice	How about reducing time to move for a mod
22:39	thexyz	and distributed
22:39	hoodedice	*time interval before it triggers the move call
22:39	sapier	main issue with mobf was a simple typo mapgen used x min value instead of y min value ... causing a flood of map checks on bogus positions
22:40	thexyz	anyway, I'm planning to upgrade my server tomorrow so expect some forums downtime from some time till some time
22:41		Vazon joined #minetest
22:41	proller	is possible to keep mobs (or any mod) in special thread?
22:41	sapier	no
22:42	Vazon	ok i need help idk whats wrong
22:42	proller	or all mods
22:42	Miner_48er	disable burning?
22:42	hoodedice	sup Vazon, what's wrong?
22:42	sapier	that's a feature that requires some changes to core as well as api (depends on what exactly should be possible)
22:42	hoodedice	Special thread?
22:42	hoodedice	NAh.
22:42	Vazon	can some one tell me what is wrong here?
22:43	Vazon	http://pastebin.com/L4igk5KV
22:43	sapier	current major issue with lua api is big envlock
22:43	Miner_48er	playerargs
22:43	Vazon	lol hay miner
22:43	Miner_48er	hi
22:43	kaeza	Vazon, search forum for PlayerArgsEnd
22:44	sapier	we're working on it but by now I don't try to predict when this issue will be fixed
22:44	Vazon	yes i cant put up the server agian get on rembob if you can fix
22:44	Vazon	ok
22:44	kaeza	Vazon, I think there's an entry in the FAQ
22:44	Vazon	ok
22:44	kaeza	(sticky in General Discussion)
22:44	sapier	btw the envlock issue would aply to binary mods too
22:44	kahrl	what could be done relatively easily is putting the pathfinding in a separate thread
22:45	sapier	kahrl that requires asynchronous api calls ... which I already proposed twice
22:45	sapier	but yes it's not a big change true
22:45	kahrl	nah, I mean a simpler but less general thing (similar to httpfetch)
22:45	kahrl	instead of find_path blocking until the result is there it would make a request to the pathfinding thread
22:46	sapier	so you really suggest adding hundreds of special solutions (over time) instead of adding a general solution?
22:46	kahrl	no, I don't
22:46	kahrl	I'm just saying that it would be possible
22:46	sapier	only for this ... only for that ... and we need it for that too ... that's gonna happen ;-)
22:47	sapier	yes everything is possible in software ;-)
22:47	kahrl	^ we disproved that statement in theoretical CS class :P
22:48		Smelly joined #minetest
22:48	Smelly	@ Vazon
22:49	sapier	g atm pathfinding for a single mob in mobf may result in a delay of 1s .... which is absolutly inacceptable ... that's why I added a setting to disable core pathfinding
22:49	Vazon	Server had a problem it has been fixed thanks guys for the help
22:49	Smelly	Vazon I cant get in
22:49	Vazon	try now
22:49	Peacock	is there a limit on threads?
22:50	Smelly	Its loading up
22:50	sapier	yes
22:50	Smelly	a tad slow
22:50	Peacock	# many?
22:50	Smelly	But I am in
22:50	sapier	about 32k on linux
22:50	Vazon	yes cuase i had to delete a player file
22:50	Smelly	Who?
22:50	sapier	if you have se linux maybe less
22:50	Vazon	idk never seen his name before
22:50	Peacock	so instead of making specific threads for specific mods, is there a way to make them available to the api (in general)?
22:50	Vazon	clark something
22:50	sapier	no idea what on openbsd or windows
22:50	Smelly	oh
22:51	Smelly	well lets talk in the server dont want to clog IRC
22:51	hoodedice	Hey Peacock
22:51	Vazon	ok well i have a irc just need to find a way to connect the to
22:51	sapier	peacock the more threads you have the more cpu power is required for thread administration
22:51	Peacock	well thats like juggling stuff with lua coroutines or globalstep
22:52	sapier	yes but you'd have to do that either
22:52	hoodedice	So I have to build my nation from scratch?
22:52	sapier	once your thread needs map access it requires to get a envlock
22:53	sapier	for mobs this means almost anytime
22:53	kahrl	or a vmanip with potentionally outdated contents
22:53	sapier	yes ... still you need to get that data
22:53	Peacock	well like you said, if you dont want to add threads for specific cases, maybe just a way to make them generally available, and let modders sort out their troubles later lol
22:53	Peacock	hoodedice servers' down right now
22:53	sapier	lua doesn't have thread support so we need to workaround that issue
22:54	Peacock	through the api i guess?
22:54	sapier	most likely
22:54	hoodedice	(When it comes up)
22:54	kahrl	if we put in a crappy api for threads now we'd likely be stuck with that crappy api
22:54	sapier	but peacock you're looking at wrong place for performance
22:54	Peacock	hoodedice "from scratch" there were exactly three small towers before
22:55	sapier	lag occurs because of silly programming
22:55	hoodedice	dome?
22:55	sapier	for example I thought doing spawning on_mapgen would be a good idea .... WRONG
22:55	hoodedice	(which you built?)
22:55	sapier	it's as silly as it can be
22:55	Peacock	well, how would you explain technic + mesecons and all the other deps lagging on my dualcore, are they all badly written?
22:55		Inocudom joined #minetest
22:56	sapier	if you do all spawning on mapgen you add a BIG single block causing huge delay
22:56	hoodedice	carts lag on my bro's i3
22:56	hoodedice	as well as mesecons
22:57	thexyz	sapier: how about you write a tutorial on how to write fast mods / possible bottlenecks?
22:57	Inocudom	I was on VanessaE's creaive server today. As I looked around, I noticed how the presence of several nodebox models can drop FPS.
22:57	thexyz	sapier: that'd be really helpful
22:57	Peacock	some basic tips, dont overuse abms/ongen lol
22:58	thexyz	don't use vmanip to change one node
22:58	Inocudom	When you fly into a nodebox model, you can see that it generates faces both inside and outside. This is very easily seen with the slopes of homedecor.
22:59	Peacock	ive never had issues spawning blueprints/meshes in multinode, its the serialized tables that WE used that killed it
22:59	sapier	I always tell what I found out thexyz ... I guess I already made a lot of mistakes and learned from it ;-)
22:59	sapier	last one was the mapgen issue ;-)
22:59	Peacock	localising functions help
22:59	thexyz	sapier: having all that in one place (hint: topic at forum/wiki article) would be really good
22:59	Peacock	the way you index tables in lua matters too
23:00	sapier	thexyz do ppl really read that?
23:00	sapier	peacock only of you do a lot of operations but yes that'd be a hint too
23:01	thexyz	sapier: check dev wiki
23:01	thexyz	> This page has been accessed X times
23:01	sapier	one thing I wanna try for next version is use vmanip to prefetch surrounding of a mob instead of check it on the fly
23:01	thexyz	also, then instead of explaining once again you can just point them to the wiki
23:02	sapier	not sure if the overhead created by fetching more to be sure to have everything wont equalize the benenefit ... need to try that
23:02	hoodedice	One thing I need like urgently for 0.4.8 > caching of mods
23:02	thexyz	caching?
23:02	hoodedice	After the first loading of mod data, they should be cached on the hard drive or something
23:02	sapier	caching is useless
23:03	kahrl	you mean like cache/media?
23:03	hoodedice	I think so
23:03	sapier	ohh you didn't talk to me :-)
23:03	hoodedice	What exactly happens when you load mods?
23:04	kaeza	client-side mods!
23:04	* kaeza	hides
23:04	hoodedice	Yes?
23:04	kahrl	hoodedice: ummm... a lot of stuff
23:04	sapier	launches some icbms with kaezas home as destination ;-)
23:05	VanessaE	what isn't cached?
23:05	VanessaE	I thought at least all textures/sounds were
23:05	hoodedice	So I guess some of that stuff merely repeats itself everytime the game loads?
23:06	sapier	hoodedice I assume you're talking about the loading to memory ;-)
23:06	kahrl	nodedef/itemdef and inventorycube-like textures aren't cached, everything else is
23:06	hoodedice	I guess so
23:06	Inocudom	Would it be better if those things were cached?
23:06	hoodedice	Yes, maybe
23:07	hoodedice	I have aroung 15 minutes or more loading time
23:07	hoodedice	*around
23:07	kahrl	have you tried disable preload item visuals?
23:07	kahrl	+to
23:07	Peacock	cant disable that on my server, inventory's got too many buttons lol
23:07	hoodedice	ON XUBUNTU with everything off
23:08	Peacock	whole inventory disapears for a few seconds while the next page loads
23:08	hoodedice	You don't talk about what happens on windows
23:09	kahrl	are most of the custom nodes full or nodeboxes?
23:09		Rancon joined #minetest
23:09	Peacock	who you asking?
23:09	kahrl	hoodedice
23:09	hoodedice	nodeboxes?
23:09	Peacock	non cubes :p
23:09	hoodedice	If you mean cubes with just colour changes
23:10	kahrl	nodeboxes = like stairs, slabs etc.
23:10	Rancon	How does /msg work on irc?
23:10	hoodedice	loads of cubes with different colour, VanessaE's homedecor
23:10	hoodedice	Jeija's mesecons
23:10	hoodedice	Somebody's firearms
23:10	kahrl	anyway you could try my optimize_invtex branch
23:11	VanessaE	optimize_invtex?
23:11	kahrl	be warned, it's very experimental and might not help much if there are lots of nodeboxes
23:11	kahrl	or if your GPU is way better than your CPU
23:11	VanessaE	is that the one where the "real" 3d model gets used in the inventory instead of rendered images?
23:11	VanessaE	(the one that was easily 50% faster for me)
23:12	kahrl	VanessaE, no, I don't know of a good way to do that
23:12	hoodedice	So...
23:12	kahrl	it uses software rendering to do the same thing the RTT code does with the GPU
23:12	VanessaE	ok
23:12	hoodedice	textures and sound from mods are cached?
23:12	VanessaE	then you meant the extrude code
23:13	VanessaE	hoodedice: yep
23:13	sapier	yes hooodedice
23:13	VanessaE	~/.minetest/cache
23:13	hoodedice	code is not. (Can code actually be cached?)
23:13	VanessaE	code is not transferred.
23:13	hoodedice	Okay
23:13	VanessaE	the code stays on the server.
23:14	hoodedice	hmm
23:14	kahrl	I guess you could almost call some of the media file types code
23:14	kahrl	like postscript
23:14	VanessaE	heh
23:14	VanessaE	that'll be the day, when we start using PDF, PS, LaTeX and so forth. :D
23:15	kaeza	that actually depends on where you draw the line between "data" and "code"
23:15	kaeza	C source files are data after all :P
23:15	kahrl	make a writable book mod that uses LaTeX :P
23:15	thexyz	kahrl: how would it display rendered data?
23:16	VanessaE	kaeza: if you can compile it and execute the result (maybe via an interpreter) and it does something vaguely Turing-complete, it's code. :)
23:16	VanessaE	else, it's data
23:16	kahrl	thexyz: build a texture by hand like some of the signs mods do
23:16	thexyz	kahrl: oh, i love this; but it'd require shitton of textures
23:16	thexyz	see mathjax
23:17	Peacock	python has an awesome lib for creating textures (including text) that would rock to have in lua
23:17	Peacock	pil i think?
23:17	thexyz	Peacock: how would you deliver those textures to clients
23:17	Peacock	would be cool for signs, could use system fonts
23:17	thexyz	is the problem
23:18	Peacock	hm yeah, dynamic textures and all :/
23:18	thexyz	signs solves this problem by having a texture for every letter; then building the final image by combining them
23:18	thexyz	of course, we can have texture for black pixel and texture for white pixel
23:18	Peacock	only problem with signs is half the time you have to punch them for the text to re-appear :/
23:19	thexyz	yeah, because engine deletes entities signs use to display text
23:19	kahrl	perhaps add support for parsing data: URLs to the texture loader
23:19	kahrl	that could actually be all that's needed
23:19	kahrl	(or an equivalent format)
23:20	Peacock	so servers can send more textures to the clients or the clients can fetch em from the web? (or both?)
23:20	thexyz	that'd be cool; but I doubt anyone is going to use it
23:20	kaeza	skins?
23:20	kahrl	Peacock: the server can already push dynamic texture names to the client using entities
23:21	Peacock	well you could have "live" content
23:21	Peacock	yeah but the client needs to already have all the textures downloaded right?
23:21	kahrl	not if the texture can be fully constructed from the name
23:21	thexyz	kaeza: yes, I forgot about skins
23:21	thexyz	then that'd be really useful
23:21	kahrl	like if it's a data: URL
23:21	Inocudom	Most easily noticed in the case of complex nodebox models, all faces are generated of the cubes that make them up. Even internal ones.
23:21	Peacock	so a mod using pil on the server side couldn't push a new sign png before the game is restarted
23:22	kaeza	thexyz, someone may actually go for overkill and render movies on a TV-like node :P
23:23	Peacock	animated ASCII porn :p
23:23	Peacock	and corny midi music in the background XD
23:23		Rancon left #minetest
23:25		pgrytdal joined #minetest
23:25	pgrytdal	Hello!
23:26	kaeza	hi
23:28	pgrytdal	I have a question.. Does anyone know how to craft furniture? Like. a couch, or something? (I am new to Minetest, and I don't have Minecraft :S )
23:28	Peacock	check lrfurn
23:28	pgrytdal	is hat a mod?
23:28	pgrytdal	*that
23:29	kahrl	thexyz: since you're probably the only one who'll use a script to do it, you get to decide ;) What should the format in the POST request for the sha1 list be?
23:29	kahrl	application/x-www-form-urlencoded, the same binary format that is used as output, something else?
23:29	Peacock	just google for minetest mod lrfurn
23:30	kaeza	and homedecor
23:31	* VanessaE	hides
23:32	pgrytdal	Thanks.. Haha.
23:33		theTroy joined #minetest
23:34	thexyz	kahrl: why not use multipart/form-data and just send 20 * number_of_files raw bytes?
23:35	pgrytdal	Which is recommended? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=2041 or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5407
23:35	thexyz	then server replies with 20 * number_of_files_it_has raw bytes
23:35		jojoa1997 joined #minetest
23:36	kahrl	thexyz: you mean without the signature and version fields?
23:36	thexyz	would we ever need that?
23:36	kaeza	pgrytdal, you can use both
23:36	kahrl	if we do, it'd be too late :P
23:36	thexyz	no, why?
23:36	kahrl	I'd rather be safe
23:37	kahrl	do they hurt anything?
23:37	thexyz	I'm not against those; why do we need the signature if we have version though?
23:38	kahrl	mostly as a way to make sure the file is actually meant to be a sha1 list
23:38	VanessaE	pgrytdal: get both.
23:38	VanessaE	they work well together
23:38	thexyz	hm, okay
23:38	pgrytdal	kaeza VanessaE: Okay
23:38	kahrl	when a file with the wrong signature is downloaded, the current downloader interprets this to not ask the server for any files
23:40	kahrl	(when it returns a 404, however, it enters compatibility mode and asks for filenames instead of sha1, and assumes the server has all files)
23:40	thexyz	kahrl: what url will it post to?
23:41	kahrl	baseurl + "index.mth"
23:41	thexyz	mth?
23:41	kahrl	minetest hashset
23:41	thexyz	index?
23:41	kahrl	of hashes
23:42	thexyz	okay
23:43	khonkhortisan	Is selected_world_path the path of the selected world or is it the path to the worlds directory I selected?
23:43	Peacock	minetest hash brownies :p
23:44		thefamilygrog66 joined #minetest
23:44	thefamilygrog66	hullo
23:45	VanessaE	hey tfg
23:45	VanessaE	speaking of lrfurn, pgrytdal ...
23:45	VanessaE	:)
23:45	thefamilygrog66	how's it goin v?
23:45	VanessaE	going good
23:45	thefamilygrog66	what about my furniture? did someone stain it?
23:45	Peacock	lol
23:45	Peacock	red wine
23:45	thefamilygrog66	o_O
23:46	thefamilygrog66	did you see my ridiculous new mod, VanessaE?
23:46	VanessaE	tfg: we told pgrytdal to get it :)
23:46	VanessaE	what new mod?
23:46	VanessaE	oh
23:46	VanessaE	the steve-on-a-stick one? :)
23:47	thefamilygrog66	haha, well I had to change it, but yes, heads. I called it "BRING ME THE HEAD".
23:47	khonkhortisan	RUN_IN_PLACE is false, minetest is installed, it searches for worlds in ~/src/minetest/, it creates worlds in ~/.minetest/worlds/. What is wrong?
23:47	Peacock	cant you just pay for it? XD
23:47	thefamilygrog66	ended up using textures from Zeg9's skins mod
23:47	VanessaE	RUN_IN_PLACE =0
23:47	VanessaE	not false
23:48	VanessaE	though idk if that matters or not
23:48		Smelly joined #minetest
23:48	khonkhortisan	In cmake-gui I just see a checkbox
23:48	Smelly	Miner_48er
23:48	thefamilygrog66	there's a gui now?
23:48	khonkhortisan	yes
23:48	khonkhortisan	you should try it
23:49	Smelly	What happen did it crash? Miner_48er
23:49	thefamilygrog66	maybe I shouldn't, from the sounds of it! :)
23:49	Miner_48er	?
23:49	Miner_48er	idk
23:49	khonkhortisan	waves hand the gui is not the problem
23:49	thefamilygrog66	I kinda like the whole copy-paste thing to compile minetestserver
23:50	Smelly	I made my own IRC for us Miner, we will get Vazon and Mike in it and see whats up
23:50	Smelly	#Vazon
23:50	khonkhortisan	I may be mistaken. The world is duplicated in both locations
23:51	thefamilygrog66	brb, must eat now
23:51	VanessaE	hehe
23:51	Inocudom	Any news from RealBadAngel lately?
23:51	khonkhortisan	full name thefamilygrogeatstuff66
23:51	jordan4ibanez	Is there flat land generation?
23:52	khonkhortisan	I have many minetest worlds and only the first one gets in the list in the client.
23:53		Smelly joined #minetest
23:54		NekoGloopMkII joined #minetest
23:54	Peacock	RBA? last i heard he was conquering czechoslovakia, should return victorious shortly
23:55	khonkhortisan	I have 33 worlds, two of which are invalid, one of which shows up in the world list.
23:56	kahrl	thexyz: does it have to be multipart/form-data (which seems a bit complicated, have to choose a separator and so on) or can it simply be application/octet-stream?
23:57	khonkhortisan	miscounted. 30 worlds that are actually worlds and don't have special characters. That leaves 29 that are filtered out somehow, after minetest finds them.
23:59	VanessaE	Peacock: actually he's (barely) watching the technic repo. A comment from him came across to my email yesterday (or day before?).
23:59	VanessaE	so he's around, just not in here.
23:59	Peacock	weird, i thought he was away for lack of internet or moving or some stuff?

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