IRC log for #minetest, 2013-07-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
00:00	VanessaE	Exio4: think gravitational acceleration :)
00:00	Slain	60 x60 = 360 seconds = 1 minute, thus 1 fps = bad
00:00	VanessaE	9m/s²
00:00	Slain	?
00:00	VanessaE	(or whatever it was)
00:01	PilzAdam	9.81 m/s²
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00:01	pehjota	9.81 m/s²
00:01	VanessaE	close enough.
00:01	pehjota	john_minetest: Ha :)
00:02	PilzAdam	VanessaE, not "close enough"
00:02	PilzAdam	10 is "close enough"
00:03	VanessaE	hey, gimme a break, I was within 10 percent :P
00:03	kahrl	pi² m/s² is nice and clean
00:04	Exio4	what is that pi^2 or ^3?
00:04	Exio4	can't see here, :(
00:04	Slain	2
00:04	PilzAdam	pi^2 == (tau/2)^2
00:05	Exio4	Slain: k
00:06	Exio4	http://pcl.intel-research.net/publications/isca319-lee.pdf
00:07	PilzAdam	how every author of that article is just dead...
00:18	DanDuncombe	How am I doing so far (only done some stuff)? https://github.com/DanDuncombe/camo_latest/wiki
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00:29	PilzAdam	bye
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00:43	Exio4	lol
00:44	Peacock	then what is #philosophy for?
00:44	VanessaE	for talking about games, what else
00:44	Peacock	hm, makes sense
00:48	khonkhortisan	infinity, zero, and negative infinity are all the same when you add them to themselves
00:51	Peacock	curiosity, why does map end around 30K?
00:54	Peacock	ok so its a technical limit for the db
00:54	Peacock	was wondering if it was some random constant or something
00:55	Peacock	still, 2.7e+13 nodes isn't bad
01:07	kahrl	Peacock: it's less about the size of the DB than about the representation of coordinates
01:08	Peacock	the only thing i find confusing is some people say it's infinite
01:08	kahrl	node coordinates are represented as v3s16, a 3 component vector of signed 16-bit integers
01:09	Peacock	ahh, 16bit = approximately 30k?
01:09	kahrl	yup
01:09	kahrl	well I agree, "infinite world" is misleading
01:09	Peacock	well more like the terrain generation is infinite
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01:30	* arsdragonfly	found that his 9-year-old rig was flashed a wrong BIOS at the very beginning
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02:00	* VanessaE	pokes RealBadAngel
02:01	RealBadAngel	hi
02:03	Kacey	hi RBA
02:07	Naked	hi
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02:19	hdastwb	alright; why does technic define node breakers and constructors, since they should be identical to the pipeworks ones and pipeworks is a dependency?
02:21	VanessaE	hdastwb: they just need to be removed entirely from technic
02:21	VanessaE	which is the plan.
02:21	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: ^^^^^^
02:23	RealBadAngel	hdastwb, because i wrote them, but then agreed to move them to pipeworks
02:23	RealBadAngel	they were part of technic not the pipeworks
02:24	RealBadAngel	VanessaE, hold on, we were talking bout nodebreakers and deployers, why he is asking about constructors?
02:24	VanessaE	constructors, I don't know for sure
02:25	hdastwb	I meant deployers
02:25	VanessaE	the other two is obvious :-)
02:25	VanessaE	are*\
02:25	hdastwb	malapropism
02:25	RealBadAngel	hehe
02:25	RealBadAngel	if theyre still exist in technic i will remove them
02:25	hdastwb	alright
02:26	VanessaE	I wonder, could a constructor also be adapted to accept items from a tube?  might be useful.
02:26	RealBadAngel	propably yes
02:27	hdastwb	One feature that I'm looking forward to is pipeworks integration for electric furnaces and grinders
02:28	RealBadAngel	then check mv machines
02:28	VanessaE	those would also be useful, but like a constructor, best left as part of technic
02:28	RealBadAngel	idea is that basic stuff doesnt support tubes
02:28	hdastwb	hmm
02:28	VanessaE	agreed
02:28	RealBadAngel	you have to upgrade your machines to use tubes
02:29	RealBadAngel	and btw, default chest and default furnace using tubes is a mistake when working together with technic
02:29	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: easy enough to add a check to disable loading of compat.lua
02:30	RealBadAngel	i was about to write it too
02:30	RealBadAngel	but that was also an answer to hdastwb question
02:30	RealBadAngel	technic chests and machines do support tubes
02:32	hdastwb	okay; I've only tested with the LV ones so far; I must have assumed none of them worked from that…
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02:33	RealBadAngel	mv and hv do, chests from silver up
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02:34	hdastwb	are there mv/hv grinders in the works?
02:34	RealBadAngel	i merged mv grinder yesterday
02:35	* ShadowNinja	found where that ASCII art is printed. :-)
02:35	ShadowNinja	"// ASCII art for the win!"
02:38	hdastwb	it looks like I won't need to add the tube routing stuff to node breakers and deployers; should I add it to everything else, though?
02:39	RealBadAngel	you propably should ask nore about it
02:39	VanessaE	hdastwb: imho, maybe you can work on the node defs thing I mentioned
02:40	hdastwb	that was a part of the pull request; it's the connect_sides table
02:41	RealBadAngel	hdastwb, you could do the same with mesecons wires and technic power cables
02:41	hdastwb	That would be neat; I'll look into that
02:42	RealBadAngel	i think one routine for both of them
02:42	hdastwb	we could also probably use the 6d facedirs to define only one piston node rather than the three that mesecons has right now…
02:42	RealBadAngel	i was thinkin already to drop old look of power cables and make them more mesecons like
02:42	VanessaE	hdastwb: I meant this function:  https://github.com/VanessaE/pipeworks/blob/ec416df7945f85bdb6fc50369b7049e52d96e791/tubes.lua#L52
02:43	VanessaE	that one needs to be rewritten to only register unique shapes rather than all 64 possible variations
02:43	VanessaE	unless I'm misreading it :)
02:43	RealBadAngel	but for that cables shall be able to climb up the walls and ceilings
02:43	hdastwb	oh yeah, that one
02:43	hdastwb	I thought you meant the thing where the tube connections are defined in node defs…
02:44	VanessaE	oh, nah - that's good
02:48	hdastwb	I think the nodeside function that I defined in tube_autoroute should be fairly versatile; it might be worth it to try to get something like that into the API
02:48	hdastwb	…though I'm still waiting on any news from the other functions I've proposed for the API
02:48	VanessaE	you mean for upstream minetest?
02:49	hdastwb	yep
02:49	VanessaE	have you mentioned it in -dev?  (I don't recall seeing it there)
02:49	VanessaE	the powers-that-be will see it easier there.
02:50	hdastwb	I did: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-07-17#i_3203456
02:51	VanessaE	oh ok
02:52	kahrl	I would merge it, but... 6d facedir is currently fucked up and I don't know how it's supposed to work and thus I can't test it
02:53	VanessaE	fucked up how?
02:53	kahrl	I tried using the screwdriver and didn't get how it is supposed to work
02:53	kahrl	and of course there's the texture rotation issue
02:53	kahrl	and vertex colors
02:54	RealBadAngel	if you dont understand it, it doesnt mean it is fucked up
02:54	RealBadAngel	im not talkin bout issues
02:54	VanessaE	there does need to be a register_node option for setting textures not to be rotated, yes
02:54	VanessaE	vertex colors?
02:54	kahrl	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/835
02:55	RealBadAngel	light problem
02:55	VanessaE	oh yes
02:55	RealBadAngel	and theres no such thing like texture rotation isssue
02:55	RealBadAngel	its made as it should be made
02:55	hdastwb	do we have some sort of callback for when people use screwdrivers?
02:55	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: think stairs and slabs - there needs to be a way to NOT make textures rotate when the model does.
02:56	RealBadAngel	take a cube in hand mark textures and rotate it
02:56	RealBadAngel	you will see facedir rotates textures as it should
02:56	RealBadAngel	we have tested it this way
02:56	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: indeed it does, you're absolutely right - but there needs to be an option that causes them not to rotate at all
02:57	VanessaE	(though I've mostly solved that issue in stairsplus already)
02:58	kahrl	can somebody point me to documentation for the screwdriver then?
02:58	kahrl	it seems to behave weird
02:58	RealBadAngel	it explain what it does
02:58	kahrl	not really
02:58	RealBadAngel	lemme explain you the rules really quick
02:58	hdastwb	Modes 1 and 2 are easy to understand; I've never used any of the other ones since I haven't really needed them
02:59	RealBadAngel	just forget old facedir
02:59	RealBadAngel	not the front is important
02:59	VanessaE	kahrl: also of note, please look at the 6d facedir prediction code in homedecor's lighting.  I think this would be of great use upstream also.
02:59	RealBadAngel	the top of the node
02:59	VanessaE	(I used substantially the same code in moreblocks)
02:59	RealBadAngel	in old facedir top points X+ axis
03:00	RealBadAngel	and rotates around it
03:00	kahrl	not Y+?
03:00	RealBadAngel	ooops
03:00	VanessaE	Y+ I would hope
03:00	RealBadAngel	right, y+
03:00	RealBadAngel	and thats new facedir 0-3 values
03:01	RealBadAngel	now let top point y-, which would mean node is upside down
03:02	VanessaE	at this rate, we'll need to draft new terms to refer to the various sides of a node in its nominal orientation :P
03:02	VanessaE	e.g. dorsal/ventral, port/starboard, anterior/posterior
03:03	RealBadAngel	in short, facedir consist of two values, axisdir - which says which axis top of the node points, and rotation
03:03	kahrl	right, that part makes sense
03:03	hdastwb	I just used top, bottom, left, right, front, and back…
03:03	kahrl	what I don't get is why does for example mode 2 sometimes rotate by 180 degrees and sometimes by 90 degrees?
03:04	RealBadAngel	impossible
03:04	RealBadAngel	try to rotate somethin like mesecons lever or button
03:05	kahrl	only minetest_game installed here, i'm using a chest
03:05	RealBadAngel	too many very same faces to see it properly
03:06	hdastwb	I did all of my testing with furnaces
03:06	kahrl	it's visible if I look at the front face
03:06	RealBadAngel	lemme find the test node for scewdriver
03:07	arsdragonfly	!up arsenalmp.no-ip.org 30000
03:07	MinetestBot	arsenalmp.no-ip.org:30000 is up (423ms)
03:07	hdastwb	but I have noticed that the screwdriver follows a 90-180-90-180 pattern even with a button on a tree in technic_game
03:08	RealBadAngel	https://github.com/RealBadAngel/facedirtools
03:08	kahrl	now I may have messed something up when I changed texture rotation in the texture atlas removal patch
03:08	kahrl	though I remember it happen before that
03:08	RealBadAngel	theres test node, both regular and nodebox
03:09	RealBadAngel	maybe i shall re-check if it still workin properly
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03:11	RealBadAngel	you can also ask khonkortisan for file to print the very same cube and rotate it IRL :)
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03:14	hdastwb	it seems to be 90-90-90-90 along the axis and 90-180-90-180 everywhere else; I think it's just how the facedirs are distributed
03:16	RealBadAngel	about mode 2
03:16	RealBadAngel	mode 2 is not direct use of built in order of rotation
03:17	RealBadAngel	its about keepin front in front and rotate it
03:17	VanessaE	thexyz: is there some reason that one can't move the first post of a thread over to some other thread?
03:17	RealBadAngel	which is not the original 6d facedir way
03:17	RealBadAngel	^ and was forced by Vanessae ;)
03:17	VanessaE	:P
03:18	RealBadAngel	mode 2 is a conversion table in screwdriver mod
03:18	RealBadAngel	and it may be slightly fucked up indeed :)
03:20	RealBadAngel	well, its not really the table, it looks for next occurance of front face in facedir rotation table
03:20	RealBadAngel	instead such table should be made for mode 2 and sorted manually, then used
03:23	kahrl	hmm, is there a reason screwdriver uses the look direction instead of pointed_thing?
03:24	RealBadAngel	pointed thing doesnt say which face im pointing
03:24	kahrl	it does
03:24	kahrl	pointed.above - pointed.under
03:25	RealBadAngel	no
03:25	VanessaE	kahrl: no, those only indicate the node you're pointing at.
03:25	RealBadAngel	up, down, left, right, top, bottom
03:25	kahrl	what?
03:25	RealBadAngel	those are the faces i mean
03:25	VanessaE	you can estimate what face you're pointing at by also comparing against your current look dir and look yaw, though
03:26	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: you forgot A B A B Start
03:26	VanessaE	;)
03:26	RealBadAngel	more, node can be already rotated
03:26	RealBadAngel	and i do want to know exactly which face im pointin at
03:27	VanessaE	kahrl: I think it would be beneficial to add something like pointed_thing.under.face (gives a number 0-5, in order of how textures are specificed in a node def)
03:28	VanessaE	but that can only happen after the pointing-at-thin-objects glitch is fixed
03:28	VanessaE	(sometimes, pointing at an object that's thin enough, e.g. less than ~4 pixels, points at the object behind it instead)
03:29	kahrl	all of this can be computed from pointed.under and pointed.above
03:29	RealBadAngel	wanna bet?
03:30	hdastwb	I think you also need the current facedir…
03:30	RealBadAngel	turn your chest upside down
03:30	RealBadAngel	point the bottom of the node
03:30	VanessaE	actually it *can* be computed from all four variables but it would be a bitch to do so I think
03:30	RealBadAngel	and now say which face im pointing at/
03:30	RealBadAngel	?
03:31	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: in my particular idea, the function should return 1 because you're pointing at the Y- side.
03:31	kahrl	eh, whatever
03:32	RealBadAngel	so it does, it returns axis dir
03:33	RealBadAngel	then simple lookup in facedir table for this axis dir tells us that theres top face there
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03:34	kahrl	I'm just saying that sometimes even though the client detects a pointed face and reports it to the server in pointed_thing, screwdriver ignores it for some reason
03:35	RealBadAngel	built in fuctions shall be fixed to support 6d facedir
03:35	RealBadAngel	in fact there are commits about it
03:36	RealBadAngel	before theyre not merged screwdriver will ignore built in stuff
03:36	kahrl	can you test #834? if it works merge it
03:37	RealBadAngel	i will when i finish the current one
03:37	RealBadAngel	i need to fix save/load breath issue just
03:38	hdastwb	In the topic of screwdrivers, is there some callback that can be used to update tube routing or prevent griefing when they are used?
03:38	RealBadAngel	i hunted down the reason why it was not saved, patched server.cpp for it, i need do the same to client.cpp
03:38	VanessaE	hdastwb: hmm..I recognize that code! gee, I wonder :)
03:39	hdastwb	I came on to Menche's server one day to find the tables and chairs at the spawn upside-down and one of my shops sideways…
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03:40	VanessaE	yeah, that happens on my server occasionally alos
03:40	VanessaE	also*
03:40	RealBadAngel	hmm, add to tube something like on_rotate ?
03:41	hdastwb	buckets and screwdrivers are griefers' best friends
03:41	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: I think a more generic solution would be better
03:42	VanessaE	otherwise every mod out there has to watch for the screwdriver.
03:42	VanessaE	more like screwdriver should always execute some function that say node_ownership can hook into and reroute.
03:42	RealBadAngel	flag allow_screwdriver = false/true?
03:42	kahrl	perhaps a generic node protection interface should be defined
03:42	VanessaE	(e.g. let the protection mods handle it)
03:43	VanessaE	kahrl: agreed.
03:43	hdastwb	kahrl: YES!!
03:43	kahrl	a function that builtin defines to be empty and mods override
03:43	khonkhortisan	I don't think I saved that facedir printout
03:44	kahrl	can someone who knows all the different node protection approaches make a proposal for such an interface?
03:44	khonkhortisan	quaternion
03:44	khonkhortisan	no gimbal locks whatsoever
03:44	khonkhortisan	oh, protection I read that as projection
03:45	hdastwb	Is engine support for protection on the table? It would be cool if the client also had some idea about protection, and it might even reduce the strain on the server a bit.
03:46	kahrl	hdastwb: maybe, but it seems tough to support all the different approaches
03:46	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: ooo new error:  screwdriver doesn't just rotate the flat lighting - it rotates the normalmap lighting also
03:47	hdastwb	the two that I know the most about are protection and node_ownership; it seems like one could generalize each of those by providing multiple overlapping rectangular-prismic regions
03:47	RealBadAngel	youre wrong a bit
03:48	VanessaE	or rather, *facedir* rotates the normalmap lighting.
03:48	RealBadAngel	it doesnt touch the lights at all ;)
03:49	VanessaE	hdastwb: I would say those two alone would cover 99% of users, yeah
03:49	VanessaE	RealBadAngel: well the facedir rotates the flat lighting and the bumpmap lighting. :P
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03:50	RealBadAngel	well, it may look like so
03:50	RealBadAngel	i had somewhere solution for it, need to find and push it
03:51	RealBadAngel	it was a simple change of order in code
03:51	VanessaE	that's what I thought too
03:51	RealBadAngel	cut/paste nothin more
03:52	RealBadAngel	because now light applies to texture then it is rotated, while it should be done rotate then apply light
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06:22	Mad3ngineerAKAdo	argh
06:22	Mad3ngineerAKAdo	too long
06:23	Mad3ngineerAKAdo	Mad3ngineer/doc22
06:23	Mad3ngineerdoc22	lol
06:23	Mad3ngineerdoc22	oh well
06:23	Mad3ngineerdoc22	its been a while
06:23	Mad3ngineerdoc22	whatever
06:29	sfan5	!op
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06:40	sfan5	"Error running link command: Segmentation fault" perfect!
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06:56	Lynxx	ello
06:56	sfan5	ello
06:57	Lynxx	how's evrything? :D
06:57	sfan5	evrything is good
06:59	Lynxx	._. hmm can someone explain how the wieldhand works i don't understand how the texture swraps around it....
07:00	Lynxx	been triying to figure it out all day all i got is a headache xD
07:02	sfan5	!server players:most
07:02	MinetestBot	sfan5: LinuxGaming.us | LinuxGaming.us | Clients: 6/32, 15 | Version: 0.4.6 | ping: 0.202
07:02	sfan5	!server ping:least
07:02	MinetestBot	sfan5: Minetest❤Ru | minetest.ru | Clients: 1/100, 4 | Version: 0.4.7 | ping: 0.097
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07:11	MasterBot	Hello Everyone ~!-"~!
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07:36	PenguinDad	Is the compressor the counterpart to the grinder?
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07:54	thexyz	VanessaE: ask punbb devs, I have no idea
07:56	iqualfragile	what was the question
08:01	iqualfragile	and why exactly are the voxels addressed using 16 bit integers instead of 32 bit integers?
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08:31		Topic for #minetest is now http://minetest.net | NEWS: Minetest 0.4.7 released | RULES: be patient, respect other users, here and in other channels | CORE DEVS: #minetest-dev | SERVERS: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC LOGS: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/ | WIKI: http://wiki.minetest.net
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08:47	sfan5	!op
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08:51	sfan5	7JTAADQ8B, RealBadAngel: are you both RBA?
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09:10	Calinou	"git pull"ing minetest repo does nothing
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09:30	minetestn00b	Um
09:31	minetestn00b	I', having problem with minetest
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09:31	minetestn00b	my granpa's pile of shit computer is like all laggy
09:31	minetestn00b	i turned all the extrasettings off
09:32	minetestn00b	and still lag
09:32	minetestn00b	specs:
09:32	minetestn00b	intel celeron 3.06 ghz single core cpu
09:32		MasterBot joined #minetest
09:32	MasterBot	Hello
09:32	minetestn00b	some shitty sound card
09:32	minetestn00b	and and some idk old graphics card
09:33	minetestn00b	hello
09:33	minetestn00b	the same lag wont occur on minecraft
09:34	minetestn00b	i can even play crysis on lowest settings on this thing with some lag
09:34	minetestn00b	but minetest is getting like 1fps
09:35	minetestn00b	oh wait
09:35	minetestn00b	fixed it
09:35	minetestn00b	the version 0.47 gave me lag
09:36	minetestn00b	0.46 is rock stable
09:36	Calinou	._.
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10:29	bas080	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNvAqn3IqKM
10:30	bas080	Not relly minetest relevant, or is it?
10:31	bas080	All the fomo's are pressing it
10:32	Jordach	this wieldhang.png needs to be default! http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=101017#p101017
10:33		around joined #minetest
10:35	Jordach	around, nickspam
10:37		Jordach joined #minetest
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10:44	Jordach	MinetestBot!
10:44	MinetestBot	Jordach!
10:44	Jordach	sfan5, ^
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11:14	PilzAdam	Hello everyone!
11:15	Jordach	http://i.imgur.com/eBPn7UW.png <- got bored
11:17	Jordach	just a quick thing to cure boredom
11:21	FreeFull_	You can do better than that
11:21	Jordach	but of course
11:24	Calinou	if you don't need karma, no need to make it good, FreeFull
11:26	PilzAdam	https://github.com/PilzAdam/pilztest/pull/1 oO someone actually uses pilztest?
11:30	Calinou	why did you close it? :P
11:34	Jordach	PilzAdam, merge samII
11:34	Jordach	it's at 40 votes for yes
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12:34	sfan5	scanned my router with nmap: "TCP Sequence Prediction: Difficulty=0 (Trivial joke)"
12:35	sfan5	Security by Deutsche Telekom(tm)
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12:56	DanDuncombe	Ok guys, I have finished my camo mod wiki. Please give feedback and tell me what you think. https://github.com/DanDuncombe/camo_latest/wiki/Camo-Netting
12:57	DanDuncombe	john_minetest Lol funny pic
13:01	DanDuncombe	Thanks
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13:08	PilzAdam	TCP Sequence Prediction: Difficulty=204 (Good luck!)
13:08	DanDuncombe	Okay, pictures of what, not every crafting recipe
13:08	PilzAdam	dlink, john_minetest, sfan5, ^
13:08		NekoGloop joined #minetest
13:08	sfan5	lol
13:09	DanDuncombe	So: screenies to show each section's different items/nodes maybe.
13:10		mrtux joined #minetest
13:10	DanDuncombe	Can I host my pics on Github itself?
13:10	PilzAdam	DanDuncombe, you know how annyoing it is that you write _above_ quotes in the forum?
13:10	DanDuncombe	PilzAdam sorry, no, should I do the quote then write my stuff afterwards?
13:10	VanessaE	DanDuncombe: you can, but it's not recommended.
13:11	VanessaE	(to host direct image links on github)
13:11	PilzAdam	DanDuncombe, just do what EVERYONE else does
13:11	DanDuncombe	So... PilzAdam and VannessaE disagree?
13:11	DanDuncombe	Wait no got confused sorry
13:11	VanessaE	as for top-posting, PilzAdam will get no disagreement from me there.
13:12	DanDuncombe	Sorry, VannessaE, you made the post '(to host direct image links on github)' after I thought you disagreed with PilzAdam by saying what he said was not recommended
13:12	VanessaE	it's okay
13:13	VanessaE	now you can see why IRC chatting is considered somewhat async :-)
13:13	DanDuncombe	Does github have a maximum number of repos that you can make?
13:13	VanessaE	dunno
13:13	PilzAdam	no
13:14	PilzAdam	only private ones, but you have to pay for them anyway
13:14	DanDuncombe	Thanks guys :)
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13:14	DanDuncombe	What did you think of my camo mod wiki?
13:14	Calinou	where is it?
13:15	DanDuncombe	https://github.com/DanDuncombe/camo_latest/wiki
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13:19	DanDuncombe	Also, can http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6609 please be moved to mod release?
13:20	VanessaE	"License: See readme"  bzzt
13:20	VanessaE	declare the license in your post.
13:21	DanDuncombe	There are 2 licenses for different parts
13:21	VanessaE	you must declare them in the post.
13:22	VanessaE	otherwise it seems fine
13:23	DanDuncombe	Added licenses
13:24	VanessaE	works for me.
13:24	VanessaE	moved.
13:24	DanDuncombe	Thanks!
13:26	DanDuncombe	Could you maybe add it to your server (without traps maybe) because the camo netting, camo (green) and camo (yellow) sections are great for decoration.
13:26	VanessaE	no thanks
13:26	VanessaE	people were abusing traps in bobblocks before
13:26	VanessaE	I had to disable them
13:27	DanDuncombe	Never Mind :)
13:27	MasterBot	Dan, make one way glass
13:30	DanDuncombe	To make 1 way glass would only texturing 1 side of the node and have the others as glass work?
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13:47	BlockMen	hi
13:47	BlockMen	is there a build that includes https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/9733dd5b5e5516e18775665db132b2446492716c already?
13:50		MasterBot joined #minetest
13:50	MasterBot	Hi
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13:55	DanDuncombe	Is there any way of giving a node with drawtype= "glasslike" different textures on each face? It only seems to work for drawtype= "normal"...
13:56	VanessaE	you don't really need glasslike for most things, even glass :P
13:56	DanDuncombe	It's just when I place my node, I get a hole throught he world where it touches other nodes.
13:56	VanessaE	oh right
13:56	VanessaE	ok you *do* need glasslike
13:57	VanessaE	in which case...you're kinda screwed :P
13:57	DanDuncombe	Could I get around it by making the node a tiny bit smaller than normal so it doesn't actually touch them?
13:57	VanessaE	you could do that with a nodebox, sure
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13:58	VanessaE	but then you'll get this really tiny gap between neighboring blocks
13:58	VanessaE	but nodeboxes stand out in another way - they are lit wrong
13:58	VanessaE	(at least, in "smooth lighting" mode)
14:01	DanDuncombe	What is the largest a node can be without quite being as big as a normal node? (ie nodebox table)
14:02	VanessaE	it's pretty close to floating point, but limited in accuracy to about +/- 0.002 or so
14:02	VanessaE	so you can get to within about +/- 0.497 or so (a node is +/- 0.5)
14:02	VanessaE	but that gives you a *really* tiny gap, so you might be able to get away with it
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14:03	kahrl	what's wrong with using a nodebox as large as a normal node?
14:03	DanDuncombe	I tried that but I still get a world hole. I am basically trying to make one-way-glass (in this case 5 faces are dirt, 1 face is glass)
14:03	VanessaE	kahrl: he wants to force all six faces to be displayed.
14:04	kahrl	I think nodebox does that
14:04	kahrl	it may have changed
14:04	VanessaE	hrm, I could swear I've tried it before and failed
14:04	VanessaE	but maybe not.  no matter.
14:04	DanDuncombe	P{
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14:04	VanessaE	DanDuncombe: try {-0.5, -0.5, -0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5} for your nodebox dimensions.
14:04	VanessaE	see if it works per kahrl's belief - it might.
14:05	kahrl	in fact drawtype == 'nodebox', node_box.type == 'regular' should work
14:05	VanessaE	if not, try values in the +/- 0.495 to +/- 0.498 range (make them all the same, whatever they are)
14:05	VanessaE	type = regular?
14:05	VanessaE	I didn't know it could be anything but "fixed"
14:06	kahrl	'regular' is the default
14:06	VanessaE	what's the difference?
14:06	kahrl	regular is just hardcoded {-0.5, -0.5, -0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5}
14:06	kahrl	might be a little bit faster, maybe not
14:06	VanessaE	ahhhhh
14:06	VanessaE	ok
14:07	VanessaE	well have fun Dan :-)
14:07	* VanessaE	is off to take a nap...hopefully
14:07	DanDuncombe	Wel.People will have to cope with world holes then :)
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14:21	DanDuncombe	I have found a hacky way of making my one-way-glass. By making it a tubular node. http://i.imgur.com/VVMi42I.png
14:23		MasterBot joined #minetest
14:23	MasterBot	I have a mod request
14:23	MasterBot	http://marktest.co.uk/public/index.php?cmd=smarty&amp;id=24_len
14:24	MasterBot	i have spent ages formatting it and it got a score of 76 in readability via a text analyzer
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14:36	nalkri	My client has decided it hates me, it just goes all white and does nothing(the Title bar says "Not Responding") on Windows 8; the last line in the log window is Resizing Window <800 600>
14:36	nalkri	Any ideas?
14:37	PilzAdam	can you pastebin the full debug.txt as described here: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=5073 ?
14:37	nalkri	Sure, sorry, one sec
14:38	nalkri	Erm, it just loaded
14:38	nalkri	Thanks for trying to help PilzAdam, I'll report it properly if it breaks again :)
14:39	PilzAdam	maybe I have remotely fixed it with my mind? ;-)
14:39	nalkri	I have backache, could you point your mind at it a sec?
14:39	PilzAdam	is it binary based?
14:40	nalkri	Unknown, more research into physics needed
14:40	khonkhortisan	nalkri, it doesn't go white.
14:40	nalkri	khonkhortisan: yes it did
14:40	khonkhortisan	That's windows placing white over it.
14:40	khonkhortisan	If you run it on a different os, it won't do that.
14:41	nalkri	Oh, now it's frozen again :/
14:41	* nalkri	goes in search of logs
14:41	khonkhortisan	On mine, I can drag other windows over an unresponsive one, and it will create copies of the higher window
14:42	PilzAdam	I noticed that too, window's window manager seems to be pretty bad
14:43	nalkri	WM is one of the major failings of Windows IMO
14:50	khonkhortisan	Depending on how I click on the titlebar on a window on my computer, I can raise it, lower it, or maximize it horizontally or vertically or both. On Windows, I can raise it, or maximize it. I have to search the internet to find that Alt-Esc lowers the window.
14:52	nalkri	title... bar?
14:52	nalkri	Waste of screen area :p
14:56	pehjota	khonkhortisan: You forgot shade and stick (always show on visible workspace). :)
14:57	nalkri	Shade is silly, there shouldn't be a bar to roll into
14:57	nalkri	And you don't need sticky, you need tags and groups :þ
14:57	MasterBot	how much Bandwith does minetest use a day?
14:57		Calinou joined #minetest
14:58	PilzAdam	MasterBot, nothing if you dont use it
14:58	Yepoleb	hi Calinou
14:58	MasterBot	just a connection
14:58	MasterBot	someone standing still all day
14:58	PilzAdam	not much
14:58	khonkhortisan	I have stick as a button, and I turned off shade again
15:05	DanDuncombe	is messaging someone the /msg <nickname>
15:05	Calinou	DanDuncombe: /msg nick message
15:05	DanDuncombe	Thanks
15:05	PilzAdam	/msg nick message
15:05	PilzAdam	just for the lulz
15:08	Calinou	DanDuncombe: on your camouflage wiki, try not to use "I"
15:08	Calinou	a wiki should be impersonal
15:10	PilzAdam	ragequit
15:11		DanDuncombe joined #minetest
15:11	PilzAdam	ragejoin
15:11	DanDuncombe	I didn't mean to leave
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15:20	Yepoleb	what are the advantages of irrlicht over ogre?
15:21	MasterBot	no people asking what ogre is
15:23		rsiska joined #minetest
15:24	Yepoleb	?
15:25	PilzAdam	Yepoleb, builting GUI
15:25	PilzAdam	-g
15:32	Calinou	Yepoleb: easier compilation
15:32	* Calinou	runs and asks for karma
15:34	Yepoleb	thanks for your answers
15:34	PilzAdam	plain opengl would be best
15:36	Calinou	there is no such thing, PilzAdam
15:37	Calinou	you need to be able to create a window, manage input, sound and all that
15:37	Calinou	OpenGL is not DirectX
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15:40	PilzAdam	john_minetest, epic
15:41	Calinou	>desura
15:41	Calinou	inb4 desura dev is in that story
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15:55	DanDuncombe	Jordach: DO you think red decorative camouflage is an idea for the mod?
15:55	Jordach	depends
15:55	Jordach	the only red colour i'd use is one that matches desert stone
15:56	DanDuncombe	Well, I have yellow camo for desert sand camo, the red would be really red camo, wouldn't really blend in much but looks cool.
15:57	Jordach	!g define camouflage
15:57	MinetestBot	Jordach: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/camouflage
15:57	Jordach	!title
15:57	MinetestBot	Jordach: Camouflage | Define Camouflage at Dictionary.com
15:58	* Jordach	wonders if another !title opens dictionary dawt com
15:58	DanDuncombe	It is just for looks really (Red Camo)
16:00	DanDuncombe	This is my trial red camo texture http://i.imgur.com/VCoDINx.png
16:01	Jordach	PilzAdam, please merge SamII
16:02	Jordach	> 38 people want it
16:02	PilzAdam	nono
16:02		GassyBritish joined #minetest
16:02		GassyBritish joined #minetest
16:02	GassyBritish	Hello
16:02	DanDuncombe	Helo
16:02	PilzAdam	>38 people think its better
16:02	GassyBritish	Anyone here play Mta?
16:02	DanDuncombe	I think it's better
16:02	DanDuncombe	Whats MTA?
16:02	GassyBritish	Multi Theft Auto
16:02	DanDuncombe	Nope
16:02	GassyBritish	Anyone here play Xbox?
16:02	Jordach	PilzAdam, please for gods sakes, they prefer the look of it
16:03	Jordach	<- XxJordachxX
16:03	Jordach	logged in right now
16:03	GassyBritish	I took apart my Xbox the other day and fixed it.
16:04	MasterBot	not at the same time thoug
16:04	sfan5	!title
16:04	MinetestBot	sfan5: Document isn't HTML
16:05	DanDuncombe	If you place a node bigger than default size will it overwrite adjacent nodes?
16:05	pehjota	MTA to me is Mail Transport Agent…
16:06	MasterBot	no
16:06	GassyBritish	I added you Jordach
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16:07	Jordach	Blue7oxic?
16:07	GassyBritish	Yep
16:07	sfan5	DanDuncombe: how exactly do you make a node bigger than default size
16:07	sfan5	?
16:07	Jordach	:D
16:07	GassyBritish	Anyways guys I'm going to go play MTA DayZ
16:07	Jordach	GassyBritish, i have MC30
16:07	Jordach	360*
16:08	DanDuncombe	sfan5 You have a nodebox with size bigger than -0.5, -0.5, -0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5 of course
16:08	sfan5	DanDuncombe: it won't overwrite it will just render the nodebox, which node renders last wins
16:09	Jordach	fatality?
16:09	DanDuncombe	Okay, thanks
16:11	Jordach	theres no kitten to pet in #minetest anymore
16:11	Jordach	we should have the periodic table of minetest irc'ers
16:11	Jordach	i'm a J
16:11	Jordach	john_minetest = JM
16:11	DanDuncombe	I'm DD
16:12	DanDuncombe	Gassy British would be GB
16:12	DanDuncombe	NekoGloop would be NG
16:12	DanDuncombe	PilzAdam would be PA
16:12	* Jordach	and Gassy play the same games on XBL
16:12	DanDuncombe	VannessaE would be VE
16:12	DanDuncombe	MasterBot would be MB
16:12		MasterBot joined #minetest
16:12	MasterBot	Hi
16:12	Jordach	DanDuncombe, careful
16:13	DanDuncombe	Careful?
16:13	Jordach	i hear ShadowBot's flood protector ticking
16:13	DanDuncombe	Oh,sorry.I get it :)
16:13	sfan5	!kick MasterBot change yer nickname!
16:13		MasterBot was kicked by MinetestBot: change yer nickname!
16:14	Jordach	!op?
16:14	sfan5	!op?
16:14	sfan5	it should work, but it doesn't
16:14	* Jordach	doesnt know when it decides to work
16:14		Jordach joined #minetest
16:14	sfan5	try
16:14	Jordach	!op
16:14	Jordach	just id'd
16:14	sfan5	goddamnit
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16:15	* DanDuncombe	asks if red camo would blend in with water
16:15	NO_MORE_NICKS	THEN UNBAN ONE OF MY FUCKING NICKNAMES
16:15	Jordach	DanDuncombe, red is the inverse of blue </fact>
16:15	sfan5	!ban *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.131.47.160
16:15	PilzAdam	!mute NO_MORE_NICKS
16:15	sfan5	!kick NO_MORE_NICKS
16:15	PilzAdam	oh, well
16:15	* DanDuncombe	thinks it will blend in fine then
16:15	sfan5	!unmute NO_MORE_NICKS
16:15	sfan5	!kick NO_MORE_NICKS stop it, markveidemanis
16:15		NO_MORE_NICKS was kicked by MinetestBot: stop it, markveidemanis
16:16	DanDuncombe	What did he do to be kicked so many times?
16:16	Jordach	!title viewskew.com
16:17	MinetestBot	Jordach: Can't connect to http://viewskew.com
16:18	Jordach	we finally worked out why MinetestBot doesnt op me
16:18	DanDuncombe	Why?
16:18	StarBlessed	Jordach: Sorry bro.  Huge failure server side.  Ive been working my A$$ off trying to get it rebuilt
16:18	Jordach	StarBlessed, thanks, pehjota beeped me
16:18	PilzAdam	hey StarBlessed
16:18	sfan5	DanDuncombe: because I'm endlessy stupid
16:18	StarBlessed	Hi PilzAdam :)
16:18	sfan5	(in writing things right)
16:18	Jordach	hey star
16:19	StarBlessed	Hi Jordach :D
16:19	Jordach	StarBlessed, happy to hear the fix is on it's way
16:20		NoneNone joined #minetest
16:20	NoneNone	You can shut up now
16:20		Elench joined #minetest
16:20	NoneNone	What the fuck did i do?
16:20	StarBlessed	Diaspora is up and running http://d.viewskew.com.  Search Engine is just about done http://search.viewskew.com. Viewskew is a being done now http://www.viewskew.com.  Mail server is completed http://mail.viewskew.com...  Im still working on the rest.
16:20	sfan5	pasting http://marktest.co.uk links here
16:20	NoneNone	Tell me instead of being pparanoid
16:20	NoneNone	WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT
16:20	StarBlessed	Mediagoblin is next after that
16:21	sfan5	!ban *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.197.127.98
16:21	sfan5	!kick NoneNone
16:21	sfan5	!kick NoneNone ...
16:21		NoneNone was kicked by MinetestBot: ...
16:21	* StarBlessed	grins
16:21	Jordach	StarBlessed, i'm switching my mail to your service soon
16:21	Jordach	jordach.snellinggmail.com -> jordachmail.viewskew.com
16:22	StarBlessed	Ok, just let me know, Ill hook you up with an account.  It'll be <username>@viewskew.com
16:22	Jordach	jordachviewskew.com
16:22	Jordach	cheers
16:22	PilzAdam	@minetest.net is better
16:22	StarBlessed	I'd say keep your gmail, and just forward everything over to your viewskew account
16:22	* Jordach	should setup mail forwarding, but only for certain addresses
16:22	StarBlessed	LOL @ PilzAdam :)
16:22	StarBlessed	Are you handing out free email accounts PilzAdam ?
16:23	PilzAdam	not really
16:23	Jordach	StarBlessed, if i find a way to make some sort of cloud document editor (nudges google docs), then i can ditch google drive
16:23	sfan5	StarBlessed: if you really want an @minetest.net mail account ask thexyz
16:23	StarBlessed	Nice Jordach.  There are a couple of good ones out there.
16:24	* sfan5	's got one
16:24	Jordach	and suppprt LO 4.0 odf
16:24	Jordach	StarBlessed, we also need a pastebin
16:24	PilzAdam	you need to be core dev to get an @minetest.net email
16:24	StarBlessed	Thanks sfan5.  Im ok.  Ive got waaaaaay too many as it is.  I think keeping with my ViewSkew one is fine.  Especially for business ;)
16:24	StarBlessed	Jordach: Working on that too ;)
16:24	Jordach	sweet
16:24	Jordach	then i no longer need paste.ubuntu.com
16:25	sfan5	StarBlessed: /me suggests Knoxious open pastebin
16:25	sfan5	PilzAdam: really, when did we agree on that?
16:25	Jordach	StarBlessed, at least i wont have no NSA spies
16:25	StarBlessed	LOL!  True dat
16:25	PilzAdam	sfan5, when thexyz has set up @minetest.net?
16:26	Jordach	StarBlessed, then i can then move my music to viewskew too
16:26	StarBlessed	My servers (while not 100% bullet proof), are as close to fort knox as I can make em
16:26	sfan5	PilzAdam: yeah..
16:26	StarBlessed	You want to post your music?
16:26	Jordach	StarBlessed, CloudFlare ;)
16:26	StarBlessed	LOL!  You can do that on opencloud.
16:26	sfan5	StarBlessed: I suggest using an OS thats not Windumb, Mac OS X or Linux
16:26	DanDuncombe	I have made 4 official releases of my camo mod in one day... This is getting a bit stupid
16:26	Jordach	FreeBSD
16:26	sfan5	(makes it even more secure)
16:26	sfan5	also not FreeBSD
16:27	StarBlessed	sfan5: I use Linux all round.
16:27	Calinou	how 'bout NetBSD
16:27	* Calinou	runs
16:27	Calinou	DanDuncombe: use a rolling release system
16:27	sfan5	Calinou: how 'bout a pony
16:27	Calinou	just don't care about version numbers and upload changes as you make them
16:27	Calinou	like I do for my mods
16:27	DanDuncombe	Calinou: what is a 'rolling release system'?
16:27	StarBlessed	Im using Xen 6.1 as a host.  and Debian 7.1 for all the servers.
16:27	Jordach	i prefer Debian 6...
16:29	Jordach	</lovabletroll>
16:30	DanDuncombe	Calinou: should I just update the Github for itand maybe post a comment saying 'update'
16:30	Jordach	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=101069#p101069
16:31	Calinou	DanDuncombe: yes, use proper commit messages :p
16:31	Calinou	DanDuncombe: rolling release = you never use version numbers and stuff like that
16:31	DanDuncombe	So just... update. update. update. update. update. update. update. update. update. update.
16:33	Calinou	well, yeah
16:33	Calinou	people cloning the git repo can use "git pull"
16:33	DanDuncombe	Yep.
16:33	Calinou	and people who are too lazy to use it can just redownload the .zip
16:34	Jordach	I am more lazy; once downloaded -- i use it until it breals
16:34	Jordach	breaks*
16:34	DanDuncombe	Jordach: Thing is, I have more than doubled the number of nodes in my mod so you would be missing out on loads.
16:35	* Jordach	can say the same for moreblocks
16:35	Jordach	i used a super old versio
16:35	DanDuncombe	Why though?
16:35	Jordach	n before circular saw came in
16:35	Jordach	DanDuncombe, i dont know
16:35	DanDuncombe	WHY?
16:35	DanDuncombe	K
16:36	Jordach	i hate having to update mods everyday
16:36	Jordach	unless an update is mandatory; i wont update
16:36	DanDuncombe	By mandatory do you mean it won't work, full stop,without it?
16:36	Jordach	!g define mandatory
16:36	MinetestBot	Jordach: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mandatory
16:36	Jordach	DanDuncombe, read
16:37	Jordach	unless im forced to update, then no, i wont
16:37	DanDuncombe	So yeah 'obligatory'
16:38	Jordach	mhm
16:38	DanDuncombe	It's just,my camo mod, if you still use the first version you are missing out on: landmines, more camo netting, red/green/yellow camo blocks/stairs etc, one way glass.
16:39	Jordach	MINE TURTLE
16:39	Jordach	why dont we have this
16:39	DanDuncombe	Do you mean mining turtles?
16:39	Jordach	nope
16:39	Jordach	!g mine turtle
16:39	MinetestBot	Jordach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI5_sQ8O-7Y
16:40	DanDuncombe	Weird.
16:41	DanDuncombe	A very experimental mining turtle mod: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6291
16:42	Jordach	DanDuncombe, mine turtle > mining turtle
16:43	* Calinou	puts a secondary mine on Jordach's head
16:43	Calinou	Jordach looks at DanDuncombe
16:43	Calinou	*mine explode*
16:44		OldCoder joined #minetest
16:44	* Jordach	regenerates lost body parts
16:44	* DanDuncombe	respawns
16:44	* Jordach	eats fish and chips
16:49		Peacock joined #minetest
16:51	Kacey	bbl possibly
16:51	Jordach	PilzAdam, http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=101069#p101069
16:53	Jordach	it begins.
16:53		NekoGloop joined #minetest
16:54	PilzAdam	you seem to create new skins for upstream every few weeks, I guess Ill just wait for Sam IV
16:54	Jordach	Sam 4
16:54	Jordach	lol
16:54	Jordach	PilzAdam, an artist has his likes dislijes
16:54	Jordach	likes*
16:54	Jordach	dis**
16:54	Jordach	Sam I was thrown together in an hour or so
16:55	Jordach	Sam II was made in 29 mins
16:55	Jordach	see the difference
16:55	PilzAdam	and Sam I was patched
16:55	* Jordach	takes Sam I outback and silently ends his misery
16:55	Jordach	goodbye, coke sniffer
16:56	Calinou	>implying Sam I sniffed coke
16:56		MinetestBot joined #minetest
16:57	Jordach	git pull https://github.com/Jordach/minetest_game/samII
16:57	Jordach	Calinou, he had a beard, other shit which basically made him male
16:57	Jordach	Sam II was designed to fit better
16:58	Jordach	not to mention Sam I used noise and not shading
16:58	Jordach	Sam I (P) had shading + noise
16:58	Jordach	which made it sort of better and worse
16:59	thexyz	sfan5: why did you kick MasterBot?
17:00	Jordach	!voice
17:00	Jordach	sfan5, ^
17:00	Jordach	now we need markv here to spam
17:00	Jordach	let's see how i handle this
17:02		Jordach joined #minetest
17:03		Jordach joined #minetest
17:03	thexyz	this ban list is irritating
17:03	Jordach	!voice
17:03	thexyz	why is "anal" in nickname banned?
17:03	Jordach	PilzAnal once turned up
17:03	Jordach	was funny
17:03	thexyz	you always ban funny things
17:03	thexyz	-(
17:03	DanDuncombe	How do people exit and rejoin so quickly? I have to type in the captcha
17:03	Jordach	not me, VanessaE probably did
17:04	Jordach	DanDuncombe, i use a real IRC client
17:04	thexyz	s/you/you guys/
17:04	Jordach	namely hexchat
17:04	Jordach	!g hexchat
17:04	MinetestBot	Jordach: https://github.com/hexchat/hexchat
17:05	Jordach	reminder: i am always voiced; eg, so that if someone uses my nick, and doesnt login, you can tell it aint me
17:06	PilzAdam	!devoice Jordach
17:06	Jordach	/nudge PilzAdam
17:06	* Jordach	nudges PilzAdam
17:07	PilzAdam	noone is voice here
17:07	Jordach	noone, who the fuxxor is noone
17:09	thexyz	StarBlessed: what did you mean by "as close to fort knox as I can make em"?
17:09	DanDuncombe	Any more ideas of stuff to add? http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6609
17:10	StarBlessed	Locked down, and SSL certs where possible.
17:10	StarBlessed	Im still working on finishing up.
17:11	PilzAdam	StarBlessed, and of course Jordach shouting out the root password everywhere ;-)
17:11	StarBlessed	Yeah...  He doesnt get root again.  LOL
17:13	thexyz	StarBlessed: you mean, like, secure?
17:14	StarBlessed	Im trying, yes.
17:15	StarBlessed	I got d.viewskew an A rating.  I got an A rating for mail.viewskew as well.  Still working on the rest
17:15	thexyz	that ssl rating ain't that important
17:16	thexyz	well, keep trying
17:16		proller joined #minetest
17:17	thexyz	StarBlessed: I'd suggest: 1) remove apache 2) remove PHP 3) perfect forward secrecy
17:17	thexyz	also, remove debian and install gentoo hardened
17:19	StarBlessed	thexyz: No.  1) I dont have the time for Gentoo.  I used to use it, dont anymore. 2) Apache is the industry standard.  Ill work with it while it is. 3) PHP is still the best opensource platform for dynamic CMS systems with available support.
17:19	StarBlessed	By your reckoning, I should just pull down my server all together.
17:19	StarBlessed	Perfect secrecy
17:19	Kray	nginx is industry standard
17:20	StarBlessed	Im sorry.
17:20	StarBlessed	No NGINX is a GROWING platform, Apache2 still has the market share.
17:20	Kray	nope
17:21	StarBlessed	Wanna re think that?  http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2013/04/02/april-2013-web-server-survey.html
17:21	Kray	nope http://w3techs.com/diagram/market_technology/ws-nginx
17:21	thexyz	nginx is better, yeah
17:21	thexyz	there was also this funny thing
17:22	thexyz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRESOR
17:23	StarBlessed	Kray: You'r results are not comprehensive.
17:23	StarBlessed	You're*
17:23	StarBlessed	Not only that, there's no historical data
17:23	StarBlessed	also NGINX is stated as being used for HIGH VOLUME sites.
17:24	StarBlessed	not MOST sites
17:24	Kray	high volume sites are "the industry"
17:24	StarBlessed	To be honest, if you want to go there, then use lighttpd
17:24	Kray	"my kitten websites" are not
17:24	StarBlessed	Google and Youtube use a fork of it
17:24		Calinou joined #minetest
17:25	StarBlessed	The "Industry Standard" is not based on what you develop on for a large business.  Its the global market share of web servers.  Unfortunately, Apache still is installed on the vast majority of servers.
17:26	Calinou	"industry standard" is meaningless
17:26	Calinou	if I followed them, I'd be using windows 7
17:26	Calinou	and photoshop, and office
17:26	Kray	so, I set up huge amount of random web servers with nginx that don'r really do anything
17:26	Kray	and nginx is "industry standard"?
17:27	Calinou	nginx is generally faster than apache, so why not use it?
17:27	Calinou	when you don't need apache's features
17:28	Kray	nginx has some pretty hilarious optimizations
17:28	Kray	it parses request headers as a state machine
17:28	Kray	and first thing it does is to check is the second byte 'E'
17:28	Calinou	why is that bad?
17:29	StarBlessed	You know what?  Scr3w the whole thing.  Ill use what Im most comfortable with.  You can be as thankless as you please.  Typical argumentative junk.  Feel better now?  you just won an argument on the internet.  Congratulations.  Has your pen1s grown?  Has your ego been stroked?  No one actually asked your opinion in the first place.  Its no wonder people get pi55ed at this place.  Try and be helpful and you get idiots that just ruin everything.
17:29	StarBlessed	Well done you.  Here.  Have a cookie.
17:29	Kray	after that it only needs to check is the first byte 'G', 'H' or 'D'
17:29	Kray	and in this order
17:30	Calinou	StarBlessed: tip: putting two spaces between sentences is incorrect :P
17:30	Calinou	StarBlessed: we don't have swear filter here, iirc :P
17:30	sfan5	Jordach: try !op now
17:30	StarBlessed	Calinou: Putting two spaces between sentences is correct queens english
17:30	Kray	but queens english is not industry standard
17:30	Calinou	lol
17:30	Calinou	it looks worse, IMO
17:30		daswort joined #minetest
17:31	thexyz	StarBlessed: you said it's secure
17:32	StarBlessed	Fine.  Im outta here.  Fuck you AND your mate.  Ive had enough of this fuckin crowd.  Kray, youre a dick.  Plain and simple.  Calinou :  Dont care.  Fuck you anyway.
17:32		StarBlessed left #minetest
17:32	Kray	ok
17:32	thexyz	that was too fast
17:32	thexyz	why is he mad?
17:33	thexyz	inb4 another "shitty community" topic
17:33	* Calinou	upgrades their latest xorg supported version to 1.15
17:34	* Calinou	builds mini-sentry on minetest forums
17:35	Peacock	lol @ arguement. It's like the special olympics in here
17:35	Calinou	argumenting gets people nowhere
17:35	Calinou	and people still do it 8)
17:36	Peacock	and everyone's retarded lol
17:39	Jordach	!op,op,op,op
17:40	thexyz	why do you !op?
17:40	kahrl	oppa Jordach style
17:40	Jordach	!op
17:40	Peacock	sorry, I think asspie is the PC term now
17:40	Jordach	!deop
17:41	Peacock	though i don't see the difference
17:43		gin_xi joined #minetest
17:48	DanDuncombe	zWhy
17:49	DanDuncombe	Why does the skyblock server take so long to load?
17:49	Calinou	because it doesn't use remote_media? :P
17:50	DanDuncombe	Oh well.
17:50	DanDuncombe	Is there a way of seeing how many downloads a mod has on Github?
17:51	PilzAdam	yes, your mod has 0 :-p
17:51	DanDuncombe	I mean seriously
17:52	Calinou	there isn't
17:52	DanDuncombe	Oh well.
17:52	DanDuncombe	I wonder why
17:52	Jordach	Topic Views / Topic Posts = Total Downloads
17:53	Calinou	lol
17:54	Jordach	it's actually quite accurate
17:56	DanDuncombe	Well, it gave me 60 for my instabuild 4.0 mod, whereas mediafire says 98
18:02	PilzAdam	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=101093#p101093
18:02	PilzAdam	Calinou, ^
18:03	Calinou	\o/ ten dollars richer
18:03	thexyz	i was right
18:04	thexyz	yay
18:04	thexyz	http://forum.minetest.net/search.php?action=show_user_posts&amp;user_id=5137
18:04	Peacock	lol hope it was worth it (winning)
18:05	thexyz	now this guy gives his services to community, community starts using them and then he just quits
18:05	thexyz	that's quite unreliable
18:05	PilzAdam	thexyz, wanna quit too?
18:06	PilzAdam	;-)
18:06	Peacock	? you complained about his services
18:06	Peacock	what did you expect? lol
18:06	thexyz	I didn't
18:06	thexyz	i just whined a bit about "security"
18:06	Peacock	well, you shouldn't complain about a free lunch
18:07	Peacock	just don't use it lol
18:07	thexyz	why shouldn't I complain?
18:07	PilzAdam	starblessed tends to see every argument as a personal attack
18:07	Peacock	because this happens
18:07	PilzAdam	he did it several times now
18:07	thexyz	well that's his problem
18:07	thexyz	don't complain about minetest bugs then
18:07	Calinou	which minetest bugs?
18:08	thexyz	you can hurt our developers' feelings
18:08	PilzAdam	there are no bugs in Minetest
18:08	thexyz	see?
18:08	PilzAdam	Calinou, ^^^ something for your signature ;-)
18:08	thexyz	that's true assuming you were talking about mobs
18:09	DanDuncombe	Do dropped items collide with  nodes?
18:09	DanDuncombe	Dammit! stupid question...
18:09	Peacock	bugs > security
18:09	Peacock	but wtv lol
18:09	PilzAdam	"what the vuck"
18:10	Peacock	wtv = whatever
18:10	PilzAdam	w/e = whatever
18:10	Peacock	perhaps where you're from
18:10	Calinou	w/e is whatever, usually
18:10	Peacock	here people text 'wtv'
18:11	Calinou	in soviet russia, wtv texts people
18:12		webdesigner97 joined #minetest
18:12	Peacock	in soviet russia, excess flood quits you
18:13	webdesigner97	starblessed blanks out topics
18:13	Peacock	is known :p
18:13	Peacock	see log ^
18:14	webdesigner97	i tried to follow what happended, but i don't understand...
18:14		PenguinDad joined #minetest
18:14	PilzAdam	<PilzAdam> starblessed tends to see every argument as a personal attack
18:15	webdesigner97	ah, ok
18:15	Peacock	though what was the point of having the argument lol
18:16	webdesigner97	I really hate it when people create topics on the forum for telling us that they quit -.-
18:17	Peacock	sticky thread?
18:17	Peacock	'Arrivals & Departures'
18:17	webdesigner97	why not? lol :D
18:17	thexyz	there was no argument
18:18	PilzAdam	btw, thexyz, move the topic to offtopic
18:18	sfan5	PilzAdam: moved i
18:18	sfan5	*it
18:22	webdesigner97	but ok, back to minetest. While working on my fireplus mod, I thought that it would be useful if modders could stop ABMs. Maybe minetest.register_abm() could return some kinf of handler (like minetest.sound_play()). Then we could stop an ABM with something like minetest.unregister_abm(handler)
18:22	PilzAdam	why not just a flag that stops it in the function?
18:23		celeron56 joined #minetest
18:23	webdesigner97	with a variable?
18:23	PilzAdam	yes
18:23	PilzAdam	celeron56, change your nick pls
18:24	Jordach	or expect kick
18:24	Jordach	oh haha
18:24	webdesigner97	should be possible too...
18:25	webdesigner97	the problem is that I want to override the ABMs in the fire mod
18:26	PilzAdam	you can simply have  function func1(), say action = func1 in the ABM definition and override func1 in other code then
18:26		PilzBunny left #minetest
18:26	webdesigner97	overriding functions is possible?
18:26	DanDuncombe	If I have items inside a node they seem to override the node's selection box. Is there any way of avoiding this?
18:26	PilzAdam	of course
18:26	DanDuncombe	How?
18:27	PilzAdam	http://lua.org/pil/
18:27	webdesigner97	wow, didnt know that :D
18:27	PilzAdam	DanDuncombe, not everyone here is talking to you :-)
18:27	PenguinDad	PilzAdam: I have the book :P
18:28	webdesigner97	lol
18:28		VanessaE|BDSM joined #minetest
18:28	PilzAdam	VanessaE|BDSM (~celeron56192.69.209.59)
18:29	VanessaE|BDSM	you need happy ending? $
18:29	sfan5	BDSM = Bunny deletes shitty Modules ?
18:29	PilzAdam	banhammer incoming
18:29	sfan5	!mute VanessaE|BDSM
18:29		VanessaE|BDSM was kicked by thexyz: VanessaE|BDSM
18:30	sfan5	:/
18:30	DanDuncombe	Is the unknown item thing an actual item?if so what is it called?
18:30	sfan5	!unmute VanessaE|BDSM*!*@*
18:30	PilzAdam	<DanDuncombe> Dammit! stupid question...
18:30	Jordach	!ban VanessaE|BDSM
18:30	thexyz	guys, can you stop?
18:30	sfan5	Jordach: ...
18:30	sfan5	!unban VanessaE|BDSM
18:30	sfan5	thexyz: yes
18:31	PilzAdam	DanDuncombe, thx for this epic quote :D
18:31	DanDuncombe	errm...
18:31	sfan5	haha
18:31	webdesigner97	:D
18:31	DanDuncombe	what is it?
18:31	PenguinDad	:)
18:31	Peacock	did someone just offer their "services"? lol
18:31	DanDuncombe	why is everyone smiling?
18:32	DanDuncombe	:0
18:32	webdesigner97	gtg... see you ;)
18:32	Peacock	this place is weird
18:32	PenguinDad	Bye
18:32		PenguinDad left #minetest
18:32	thexyz	irc logs think that PHP means "pansies hate perl"
18:33	DanDuncombe	Is the unknown item thing an actual item?if so what is it called?
18:33	sfan5	:D
18:33	DanDuncombe	Is the unknown item thing an actual item?if so what is it called?
18:33	DanDuncombe	Please?
18:33	PilzAdam	thexyz, IRC logs think that mintest is still at celeron55/minetest
18:33	PilzAdam	can you fix that already?
18:33	sfan5	DanDuncombe: it is not an item because the game doesn't know which one it is
18:33	DanDuncombe	Okay.
18:34		Gethiox joined #minetest
18:34	thexyz	PilzAdam: you should've reported it earlier
18:34	PilzAdam	it was reported for months on -dev
18:35	DanDuncombe	Random crate mod I just made. To use: punch to open, throw items in, punch to close. To retrieve items, open and punch items. https://www.dropbox.com/s/bdtyv7znqio2ogm/crate%20mod.zip
18:35	MinetestBot	GIT: RealBadAngel commited to minetest/minetest: Add set_breath and get_breath to lua API. d19c8b815d 2013-07-20T11:34:11-07:00 http://git.io/yARUBQ
18:36	thexyz	PilzAdam: to whom?
18:36	thexyz	anyway, fixed now
18:36	thexyz	I probably was sleeping then
18:36	thexyz	sorry
18:37		bobvdiv joined #minetest
18:37	DanDuncombe	Woops, just typed this: /giveme default:voal_lump
18:37	thexyz	we should make the guy who owns minetest.com create a redirect
18:38	thexyz	we should also redirect wiki.minetest.com to .net
18:39	thexyz	ow shit what've they done to it
18:39	MinetestBot	GIT: PilzAdam commited to minetest/minetest: Make range of tools configureable cba90d4441 2013-07-20T11:37:59-07:00 http://git.io/feKvQA
18:40	kahrl	thexyz: well, move the content to wiki.minetest.net first
18:41	thexyz	kahrl: is anything important missing?
18:41	bobvdiv	I am trying to reduce cornernote critters mod because my pc aint that great, but I cant figure out how to limit in the config.
18:41	kahrl	I don't know but for example http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Item_codes
18:42	thexyz	oh, well, probably
18:42	MinetestBot	GIT: PilzAdam commited to minetest/minetest: Add liquid_range to nodedef 413f0d0353 2013-07-20T11:41:17-07:00 http://git.io/otdhhA
18:43	thexyz	I still think we need a separate namespace for each mod
18:43	thexyz	yeah, you're right, some pages are missing
18:44	kahrl	some historical stuff like http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Map_Generator_Evolution
18:45	DanDuncombe	Is there any way of making a node take on the textures of whatever you right-click it with?
18:45	MinetestBot	GIT: PilzAdam commited to minetest/minetest: Add an option to disable object <-> object collision for Lua entities 8cae659786 2013-07-20T11:43:11-07:00 http://git.io/ttBTsw
18:47	DanDuncombe	Who like the crate mod I just made :)
18:48	DanDuncombe	I bet no-one looked at it :)
18:48		Calinou joined #minetest
18:51		BlockMen joined #minetest
18:52	DanDuncombe	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6626
18:53	Calinou	http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=101103#p101103
18:53	Calinou	come on, we need facedir_fixed_texture
18:54		salamanderrake joined #minetest
18:55	PilzAdam	away nicks suck
18:55	Calinou	<redroid> DanD|away was silenced with some zombies by Calinou who demanded 1 million^W billion dollars!
19:00		RadiumCat joined #minetest
19:07	Calinou	cool, you can now change item range per tool :D
19:08	Calinou	RealBadAngel, can you add a facedir_fixed_texture while you're at it? :>
19:10	DanDuncombe|gone	How long until support for .x as nodes is possible?
19:10	RealBadAngel	Calinou, i will try to post tommorow lighting fix for facedir
19:11	RealBadAngel	and will take a look what i can do with textures
19:11	Calinou	that is a start, but when I say facedir_fixed_texture, I mean, something that lets the nodes rotate (facedir) but the textures never rotate
19:11	Calinou	this is useful for quite a lot of things
19:12	RealBadAngel	youre partially right
19:12	RealBadAngel	you mean textures rotated old way
19:12	RealBadAngel	old facedir also rotated textures
19:13	RealBadAngel	check mapblock_mesh.cpp before 6d commit
19:13	Calinou	no, not before 6d commit
19:13	Calinou	chests still had their textures rotated with facedir
19:13	RealBadAngel	wanna bet?
19:14	Calinou	by facedir_fixed_texture, I want a facedir that *never* rotates any textures
19:14	Calinou	so that you can use it for stairs+ nodes well
19:14	RealBadAngel	hmm, i can do that
19:15	RealBadAngel	i will add just extra flag to byte that facedir uses
19:15	kahrl	param2?
19:15	DanDuncombe	How long until support for .x as nodes is possible?
19:15	sfan5	DanDuncombe: stop spammin
19:16	DanDuncombe	Sorry but no-one answered it
19:16	RealBadAngel	sooner or later, who knows
19:16	sfan5	that doesn't allow you to ask it again
19:17	kahrl	RBA, I think the proposal was actually to set it in paramtype2 and not per-node in param2
19:17	DanDuncombe	Does it mean we could have nodes with true curves and stuff (hopeful)
19:17	RealBadAngel	kahrl, ah yes, indeed
19:18	RealBadAngel	so i will make 3 possible texturing ways
19:18	sfan5	DanDuncombe: yes
19:18	DanDuncombe	To texture a node which is a 3d model how would you work out the net for the texture to be spread over?
19:18	RealBadAngel	full 6d rotation, fixed - no rotation at all, old style - as old facedir
19:19	DanDuncombe	Like, Minecraft skins are a net for a texture.
19:19	Calinou	DanDuncombe, UV Unwrap
19:19	kahrl	is old style facedir needed for anything?
19:19	RealBadAngel	you have to texture object in blender for example
19:19	Calinou	you make an UV map by marking a seam on the model
19:20	Calinou	kahrl, how is the old style facedir?
19:20	RealBadAngel	kahrl, the stairs mentioned
19:20	RealBadAngel	nodebox can be upside down, but texture box will be the same as full node
19:20	RealBadAngel	so textures will fit
19:20	Calinou	ah, no flipping?
19:21	DanDuncombe	Hoe to mark a seam and do the uv map? I have only ever texture mapped spheres.
19:21	RealBadAngel	look on youtube for video explainin it
19:21	RealBadAngel	i learned it this way
19:21	RealBadAngel	"how to properly map sphere in blender"
19:21	RealBadAngel	or something like that
19:22	Calinou	mapping a sphere is very easy
19:22	Calinou	marking a complex object is complex
19:22	kahrl	RealBadAngel: huh, how is that different from current facedir
19:23	RealBadAngel	this is 0-3 - old facedir
19:23	DanDuncombe	Just realised the window of the doors in my camo mod is slightly shifted to the left... oh well.
19:23	kahrl	RealBadAngel: how can it be upside down?
19:24	RealBadAngel	hold on
19:25	RealBadAngel	https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/mapblock_mesh.cpp#L675
19:25	RealBadAngel	0-3 this is old facedir
19:26	RealBadAngel	20-23 will be node turned upside down
19:26	RealBadAngel	entries in table are face,rotation of tile
19:27	MinetestBot	GIT: PilzAdam commited to minetest/minetest: Bump protocol version 46d1d70e4c 2013-07-20T12:25:21-07:00 http://git.io/NJqY9w
19:27	RealBadAngel	now when you have rotated nodebox, for example stairs
19:27	RealBadAngel	you can see that textures will be also rotated
19:28	RealBadAngel	with old system it was different, we predefined rotated nodebox, but textures were applied like on non-rotated one
19:28	RealBadAngel	same as on regular node
19:29	RealBadAngel	thats why textures on regular nodes sometimes wont match those on nodes
19:30	RealBadAngel	shit, rotated nodes vs regular nodes
19:30	PilzAdam	yes
19:30	kahrl	RealBadAngel, and why doesn't facedir_fixed_texture solve that problem?
19:31	RealBadAngel	because regular node have also some rotations
19:31	PilzAdam	yes, sfan5's latest AFAIK
19:31	kahrl	err, what rotations?
19:31	sfan5	PilzAdam: now I need to make a new build again
19:31	RealBadAngel	define a node that has some irregular texture on each face and see
19:32	PilzAdam	sfan5, I can do one too
19:32	kahrl	what's an irregular texture?
19:32	RealBadAngel	not a box of one colour ;)
19:32	sfan5	PilzAdam: nah, already started my script
19:32	RealBadAngel	make a dot somwhere
19:32	RealBadAngel	you will see that texture is rotated for each face
19:33	kahrl	I just put down a bookshelf and the textures are not rotated
19:34	RealBadAngel	are you sure? :)
19:35	Calinou	bookshelves aren't facedir
19:35	kahrl	100*(1+epsilon) %
19:35	RealBadAngel	read pre-6d mapblock mesh
19:35	kahrl	Calinou: we were talking about regular nodes
19:37	RealBadAngel	gtg, cya
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19:55	pitriss	Hi all. Please can anyone help me? I need to explain how I can switch rail-switch with buttons, switches etc..
19:56	Calinou	pitriss, which mods do you use?
19:56	nalkri	He's on LandRush, so all them
19:56	nalkri	o/ pitriss
19:56	pitriss	nalkri: Heya:)
19:56		LandMiner joined #minetest
19:57	Calinou	put the button/switch next to a t-junction?
19:57	LandMiner	wasuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
19:57	nalkri	You could use pistons to push them around
19:57	pitriss	Calinou: i will try that..:)
19:59		Roukoswarf-M joined #minetest
20:03	Calinou	since when do you use windows? :P
20:04	pitriss	Calinou: Probably not working or I'm doing something in wrong way:)
20:08	pitriss	Calinou: Nope.. I'm using debian for 7 years:D
20:09	pitriss	(if that was for me)
20:09	Calinou	talking to john_minetest
20:12		neko259 joined #minetest
20:13	Calinou	and you say ubuntu is bad? :phoronix rolleyes:
20:14		DabDuncombe joined #minetest
20:15	DanDuncombe	Kubuntu is better
20:15	DanDuncombe	I can only run Windows for around 2 hours before it crashes and I have to reboot.
20:16	* VanessaE	looks at the scrollback log.....  tl;dr
20:16	VanessaE	hi all.
20:16	Calinou	hi
20:16	VanessaE	I see someone decided to make a bunch of noise
20:16	DanDuncombe	Really?
20:16	Calinou	someone = fglrx user
20:16	DanDuncombe	Oh
20:16	Calinou	:>
20:17	DanDuncombe	Does anyone have any more .we that I could use? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6221
20:17	DanDuncombe	Preferably not modded
20:18		Menche joined #minetest
20:18	VanessaE	heh
20:18	VanessaE	Calinou: no worse than certain nv users ;)
20:19	Calinou	>2013 >nv
20:19	Calinou	nv is dead since 2010 and never offered any kind of 3D accel :P
20:20	DanDuncombe	WHat do you guys and girls think about irradiation of food? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6626
20:21	VanessaE	Calinou: nv as in nvidia, not that old-ass driver :)
20:22	* Calinou	attempts mixing the "do you like MLP" and "irradiation - good or bad" topics
20:24	* DanDuncombe	doesn't want his topic mixed with 'My little pony'
20:26	DanDuncombe	How do you change your realname
20:27	DanDuncombe	Are there any minetestmapper things Windows can run without external assistance?
20:27	Calinou	DanDuncombe, depends on your client
20:27	Calinou	for the real name
20:27	DanDuncombe	I am just using Mozilla Firefox
20:28	Calinou	this isn't an IRC client
20:28	Calinou	you're uqing qwebirc
20:28	Calinou	so you can't change your real name
20:28	Calinou	use a proper IRC client, such as HexChat: http://hexchat.org
20:29	sfan5	DanDuncombe: your instabuild mod violates the AGPL license of WorldEdit
20:29	sfan5	I may now sue you
20:31	Calinou	challenge them to a game of quake
20:33	thexyz	john_minetest: gentoo was created for it
20:34	sfan5	john_minetest: from hand?
20:34	* sfan5	failed at producing an initrd from hand
20:34	Calinou	that's what she said
20:34	sfan5	"took an existing initrd"
20:34	* Calinou	never got arch installed
20:35	sfan5	Calinou: arch is easy to install
20:35	Calinou	lol nope
20:35	Calinou	it's 2013
20:35	sfan5	john_minetest: no
20:35	Calinou	[inception face]
20:35	DanDuncombe	sfan5: I got the code from the instacabin mod, not worldedit
20:36	sfan5	john_minetest: umm... Have you tried to install ubuntu into your win partition?
20:36	Calinou	do your partitioning by hand :P
20:36	Calinou	tip: dual booting is so 2009
20:37	Calinou	it is
20:37	Calinou	you are free to use another theme or DE
20:39	BlockMen	ubuntu sucks :P
20:39	Calinou	no u
20:39	nalkri	Is there an OS that doesn't suck?
20:39	nalkri	I'd like to install that please
20:39	* BlockMen	thinks Calinou sucks ubuntu :P
20:42	VanessaE	nalkri: they all suck, in different ways.  choose your poison :)
20:43	nalkri	VanessaE: that's what I thought, but I wasn't about to turn up the chance of finding one that didn't :)
20:43	nalkri	Not that I can talk, I'm on Windows currently
20:43	Yepoleb	D:
20:43	Megaf_	/ban to ban but how to unban?
20:44	nalkri	With /mode #channel -b <mask>
20:44	Calinou	he maybe means in-game
20:45	VanessaE	nalkri: well the least sucky, if you don't want to have to play "uber admin" all the time, would probably be Linux Mint (I think it's at v15 now)
20:45	nalkri	Oh, I'm a moron, sorry
20:45	nalkri	VanessaE: that's an Ubuntu derivative, right/
20:45	Calinou	mint has big delays from ubuntu, especially Xfce edition, quite a showstopper for me
20:45	Calinou	yes
20:45	VanessaE	nalkri: yes
20:45	Calinou	this is why I use xubuntu, no delay from ubuntu release
20:45	nalkri	I'll avoid it then, for personal reasons
20:45	Calinou	inb4 amazon hatred
20:46	Yepoleb	i use ubuntu with mint packet sources
20:46	VanessaE	nalkri: it's supposed to be Ubuntu without the bullshit, I guess.  If that won't work, try straight debian :)
20:46	Calinou	Yepoleb, WTF?
20:46	* pehjota	uses Debian testing.
20:46	nalkri	Last time I used Ubuntu it had broken and ancient SBCL
20:46	VanessaE	(debian sid here)
20:46	Calinou	VanessaE, kubuntu, lubuntu and xubuntu are also bullshit-free
20:46	VanessaE	Calinou: true
20:46	Calinou	SBCL?
20:46	Yepoleb	it works perfectly
20:46	nalkri	Steele Bank Common Lisp
20:47	Calinou	too bad ubuntu isn't rolling release :/ only a few software is, right now
20:47	VanessaE	nalkri: if you want bleeding edge, debian unstable pretty much has that
20:47	Calinou	it's much easier to manage if well done :P
20:47	Calinou	VanessaE, once I ran debian sid in virtualbox, in late 2012, I had... 3.2 kernel
20:47	nalkri	VanessaE: I'll probably try Debian next time I play with Linux
20:47	VanessaE	(but of course you know the risks of staying that current)
20:47	Calinou	debian testing isn't better either, it also had 3.2 kernel at the same time
20:48	Calinou	and sid is known to be broken quite often
20:48	VanessaE	Calinou: sid has 3.9 now.
20:48	VanessaE	of course, I don't update that often, so..
20:48	Calinou	it also didn't have xfce 4.10 until ~may 2013
20:48	nalkri	Though the next time I try Linux will be with necromancy and Minetest in mind...
20:48	Calinou	while xubuntu had xfce 4.10 since... october 2012
20:49	Yepoleb	i can't use half of the distros because of uefi
20:50	Yepoleb	i tried installing efi grub multiple times and failed
20:50	pehjota	Debian unstable is only slightly out-of-date (e.g. Linux 3.2 and Xfce 4.8) once every two years, during a freeze.
20:50	pehjota	Oh, Calinou quit.
20:51	Yepoleb	is it rolling release?
20:52	pehjota	Yepoleb: Debian testing and unstable basically are, yes.  Once every two years, testing freezes and stable is branched from it.
20:53	* ShadowNinja	got UEFI GRUB working. :-)
20:53	Yepoleb	TELL ME HOW!
20:54	ShadowNinja	https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners%27_Guide#GRUB_2
20:55	Yepoleb	don't you have to update after stable has been released
20:55	Yepoleb	i tried that, but it messed up everything
20:56	ShadowNinja	I had to manually add a boot line using the UEFI shell.
20:56	Yepoleb	HOW?
20:57	ShadowNinja	https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_Interface#bcfg
20:58	Yepoleb	thanks
20:58	ShadowNinja	You're welcome. :-)
20:59	Yepoleb	where should i install grub mbr, if the setup requires it?
21:01	ShadowNinja	MBR? I don't know. I used GPT.
21:01	Yepoleb	me too, but some distributions want to install it
21:03	ShadowNinja	Well I am only running Arch on this computer. I didn't bother with compatability with other OSes.
21:04	Yepoleb	would you make me an arch user?
21:04	pehjota	Yepoleb: Update Debian testing/unstable after a stable release?  Yeah, just wait a month or two after the release to update.  Lots of things get uploaded right after a release, so just give it time to settle down and stabilize a bit before updating.
21:06	ShadowNinja	No... I won't make you one. But if you are interested in it you can read the beginners guide and try it in a VM.
21:09	Yepoleb	is there a big difference between arch and manjaro?
21:11		jemadux joined #minetest
21:11		jemadux joined #minetest
21:29	ShadowNinja	Yepoleb: IIRC it adds a GUI and it's own repos.
21:29		bas080 joined #minetest
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21:55	Peacock	im noticing a pattern where griefers sign in as Guest####, is there any way to autobahn these?
21:56	DanDuncombe	They should stop Minetest giving people names like GuestXXX aoutomatically
21:56	Peacock	I prefer it, griefers are too lazy to chose a name on my server
21:56	Peacock	easy to figure out
21:57	VanessaE	Peacock: just don't grant interact by default
21:57	VanessaE	easiest way to control griefers
21:57	Peacock	how boring
21:57	Peacock	besides i think creative servers have it on by default?
21:57	VanessaE	people can just ask you when they sign on, or on your forum thread, etc.
21:57	VanessaE	mine doesn;'t.
21:57	VanessaE	-;
21:57	PilzAdam	Jordach, http://mg.viewskew.com/u/starblessed/m/minecraft-test/ I want that with Sam
21:58	Peacock	but is it on by default on creative? 'cuz i didn't grant it for nobody and everyone can build fine lol
21:58	Menche	did you set default_privs?
21:58	Jordach	PilzAdam, you knew i was here?!?!
21:58	Peacock	which file?
21:58	Menche	add default_prvis to minetest.conf
21:58	PilzAdam	Jordach, hm?
21:58	Menche	set it to something like "shout, fast"
21:58	Peacock	ahh in the conf file, thanks :-)
21:59	Menche	and leave out "interact"
21:59	Peacock	i was looking at map_meta
21:59	DanDuncombe	lol
21:59	Jordach	PilzAdam, i was playing the xbox and changed tab to #minetest
22:00	PilzAdam	http://mg.viewskew.com/u/pilzadam/m/wooden-town/
22:00	PilzAdam	^ I was bored
22:00	DanDuncombe	Neat
22:00	Jordach	PilzAdam, did you build that
22:00	PilzAdam	yes
22:03	pehjota	PilzAdam: Are those all furnished?
22:03	PilzAdam	not yet
22:04	PilzAdam	I thought about some kind of server area, each player gets one hut where a furnace, a chest and some basic materials are
22:04	PilzAdam	*server start area
22:06	PilzAdam	I wonder if its worth to write a mod that sets players as owner
22:07		mitori joined #minetest
22:07	mitori	hey, what's up everybody
22:07	mitori	is there anyone out here?
22:08	mitori	anybody else? i need some help with MT
22:08	mitori	i have this weird bug
22:08	PilzAdam	lemme guess
22:08	PilzAdam	the map is not saving?
22:08	mitori	lol, yes
22:08	mitori	have you seen the topic on forums?
22:09	PilzAdam	no ;-)
22:09		Menche joined #minetest
22:09	PilzAdam	have you checked your debug.txt?
22:09	mitori	https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=6644
22:09	mitori	what would I expect to see there?
22:09	PilzAdam	ask Menche
22:09	VanessaE	I wonder how many of these "map isn't saving" folks either put their minetest folder somewhere where they don't (as a regular user) have write access, or who are trying to run the game directly from the zip or whatever
22:09	Menche	?
22:09	PilzAdam	he had a problem with a corrupted file inside the word
22:09	PilzAdam	*world
22:09	VanessaE	(I assume mitori is not one of those folks)
22:10	PilzAdam	VanessaE, does builtin load if you run it from zip?
22:10	mitori	i thought i was the dropbox problem
22:10	VanessaE	PilzAdam: dunno.
22:10	mitori	turned out that i was wrong
22:10	VanessaE	I assume windows treats a zip as a virtual fs, so I would guess it would load it
22:11	mitori	and i have write access to write everythere. excpet maybe windows folder
22:11	Menche	my server has an empty map_meta.txt
22:11	PilzAdam	IIRC env_meta.txt or map_meta.txt or something is corrupted, and minetest writes this only to info- or verobsestream
22:11	Menche	that is the problem
22:11	mitori	but hte thing is
22:11	mitori	PilzAdam, it happens in many worlds
22:11	Menche	is there anything in the map_meta.txt file?
22:11	mitori	in ANY world
22:11	PilzAdam	do you have space on your hardrive left?
22:11	Menche	it should have the seed and [end_of_params]
22:12	mitori	a lot of it.
22:12		john_minetest left #minetest
22:12	PilzAdam	check the map_meta.txt of one of the corrupted worlds
22:12	mitori	what should be in there?
22:13	Menche	seed = (some big number)
22:13	PilzAdam	what Menche said
22:13	Menche	[end_of_params]
22:13	PilzAdam	since 0.4.5 (or similiar) also some mapgenparams, they are not required, though
22:14	Menche	the one from my world: http://gitorious.org/minetest_worlds_menche/server_world_1/blobs/raw/master/map_meta.txt
22:15	mitori	ok. seems it has fixed it.
22:15	mitori	but then
22:15	mitori	the question arouses
22:15	PilzAdam	I wonder why minetest clears all of them
22:15	mitori	why minetest creates corrupted worlds?
22:15	pehjota	mitori: Do you happen to know your world's seen (and mapgen parameters, if any)?
22:15	pehjota	s/seen/seed/
22:16	mitori	i know mapgen params, but not the seed. i just deleted map_meta and it seems to have created a normal one
22:16	Menche	you'll get weird massive cliffs where new blocks are generated if the seed is changed
22:16	mitori	i know.
22:16	mitori	shikata ga nai.
22:18		DanDuncombe joined #minetest
22:18	mitori	thanks for help
22:18	Menche	does having massive numbers of files in a single directory impact filesystem performance?
22:18	pehjota	Menche: It affects calls like open() in that directory.
22:19	Menche	specialties mod put 9199 files in my world folder
22:19	Menche	5 for each player
22:20	ShadowNinja	rm -rf ~/mods/specialties
22:20	Menche	each file contains a single number
22:20	PilzAdam	what a stupid mod
22:20	* Menche	revokes the modding license of whoever wrote that mod
22:21	Jordach	DAFUQ
22:21	Jordach	when did the forum go https?
22:21	thexyz	ehehe~
22:21	Menche	wow, just noticed that
22:22	Menche	i guess that's good?
22:22	VanessaE	wow, didn't notice that before either
22:22	Menche	DanDuncombe: pleeease stop top-posting on the forums. it really breaks up the flow of the conversation.
22:23	ShadowNinja	Um... He writes to init.lua...
22:23	DanDuncombe	What do you mean top-posting?
22:23	Menche	when you reply to someone's post, you put your reply above the quote
22:23	Jordach	silly chrome: http://i.imgur.com/gtUxAlt.png
22:23	DanDuncombe	Og, goddammit. I keep forgetting. Old habits die hard...
22:24	Jordach	Menche, the only nag i have about mediafire is the space limit :P
22:24	DanDuncombe	What is the space limit you have?
22:25	Jordach	50gb free
22:25	Jordach	same as mega.co.nz
22:25	DanDuncombe	12 gb free is mine
22:25	Menche	medafire force-feeds you advertisements before you can download the file, and doesn't provide direct links
22:25	Menche	*mediafire
22:25	Menche	U1 and dropbox are both free and provide direct links
22:25	Menche	you can't wget files from mediafire
22:27	ShadowNinja	Menche: It should only make one per player.
22:28	Menche	ShadowNinja: it has a lot of files named player_builder, player_miner, player_farmer, etc.
22:28	PilzAdam	it should only make one file
22:28	* Menche	thinks it should have 1 file containing a lua table, and dofile() it when it loads
22:29	PilzAdam	minetest.serialize() and deserialize() basically does that, but in a protected environment
22:29	ShadowNinja	https://github.com/metalstache/specialties/blob/master/xp.lua
22:30		arsdragonfly joined #minetest
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22:30	Peacock	mmm, cereal
22:30	Menche	maybe it was changed
22:31	Menche	github requires flash player?
22:31	Peacock	gitporn?
22:31	Menche	uh, what?
22:31	PilzAdam	Menche, I think so
22:31	Peacock	"my, what a *big* API you have there"
22:31	* Menche	isn't going to install it
22:31	Peacock	j/k
22:31	Yepoleb	how do you watch youtube?
22:32	Menche	html5
22:32	ShadowNinja	Menche: For the SHA-1 copier.
22:32	Peacock	the new youtube sucks
22:32	Menche	http://youtube.com/html5
22:32	Peacock	so bloody slow, stops randomly
22:32	Peacock	its poop
22:33	Peacock	and i can't find the tickbox for disabling hardware accel :/
22:34	Menche	lol, my server has a bug that allows players to have unlimited materials;
22:34	Menche	someone built a massive wall out of diamond and mese
22:34	Peacock	mine gives stacks of 1K lol
22:35	Menche	a griefer scattered diamond blocks around the landscape
22:36	Peacock	sucks
22:36	Peacock	someone tried to lavafill spawn on mine
22:36	Peacock	didn't last long lol
22:36	* Menche	logs on to server; spawn area still in shambles? yep
22:36	Peacock	no protection?
22:36	Menche	it has protection, yes
22:37	Peacock	pretty useless protection then
22:37	Menche	doesn't stop people from tearing up roads and strip-mining beaches
22:37	Peacock	why dont you use two realms, and spawn newbs in one of them?
22:38	Menche	players named Guest**** get spawned in a lava lake
22:38	* Menche	wonders how that could be done
22:38	Peacock	my server has no rules, but i reserve the rite to arbitrarily boot people lol
22:39	Peacock	pretty soon though ill write something that autokicks people with 'Guest' in their names
22:40	VanessaE	my server has rules, AND I reserve the right to arbitrarily boot people :D
22:40	* Menche	is seriously considering resetting and starting over
22:41	Menche	kinda reluctant, but the spawn area is a *serious* mess
22:41	Peacock	i should put 'Anarchy' in my server desc lol
22:41	Peacock	how did they grief spawn if you have protection though?
22:41	Menche	the area around spawn; they mined most of the sand off the beach, dug up the road, spammed blocks, dug deep trenches in unprotected areas
22:42	Peacock	so unless you protect the whole map, they'll always find a way
22:42	Peacock	i find if you don't bother, they get less joy out of it
22:42	Peacock	it takes me 2 seconds to remove lava from a large area, no sweat off my back
22:43	Menche	i use worldedit to remove floods
22:43	Menche	(protector mod doesn't seem to protect against buckets)
22:44	Peacock	what about removing buckets? or adding a priv for buckets?
22:44	VanessaE	just remove buckets
22:44	Menche	buckets are useful
22:44	Peacock	(if he didn't remove im assuming he wants them in)
22:44	VanessaE	creative server?
22:44	Menche	no
22:45	Peacock	theres a minetest check priv function, you could add that to bucket code so it does nothing if you dont have it
22:45	Menche	what is that check priv function? i tried modifying buckets but it didn't work
22:45	Peacock	give me a sec
22:46	Peacock	if not minetest.check_player_privs(player_name, {bucket=true}) then return end
22:46	Peacock	dont forget to define the bucket priv too
22:49	Peacock	just got a Guest* on my server... autobahn! (LOL)
22:51	Menche	the protocol version was just bumped?
22:51	* Jordach	pokes sfan5
22:51	VanessaE	yup
22:51	Menche	does that mean earlier clients are now incompatible?
22:51	Peacock	Does that change anything for 0.46 servers?
22:54	VanessaE	Menche: I think so.
22:55	VanessaE	can some other folks please try this build on my server:
22:55	VanessaE	http://sfan.sf.funpic.de/minetest-builds/c55/minetest-0.4.7-46d1d70-win32.7z
22:55	VanessaE	tell me if you're able to successfully sign in and play
22:55	VanessaE	(or at least sign in and walk around)
22:55	Jordach	Good news everybody! http://mg.viewskew.com/u/jordach/m/r-s-e-littleroot-town/
22:56	pehjota	If I understand correctly, the server will now accept clients implementing a protocol version between 13 and 21 inclusive?  (So older clients remain compatible.)
22:56	Peacock	as long as i can stick with 0.46
22:56		BlockMen left #minetest
22:56	Peacock	its the fastest version on my computer
22:57	VanessaE	pehjota: protocol-wise it might, but there are other differences that may cause older clients to work
22:57	VanessaE	er to not work
22:57	Peacock	i downloaded minetest_game today though, and it caused my client to segfault
22:57	VanessaE	you have to keep your client and your game in sync
22:58	VanessaE	occasionally, too new of a _game will cause the client not to work acceptably
22:58	Peacock	yeah, so now i have to find the 0.46 version of minetest_Game lol
22:58	VanessaE	just get the latest git release
22:59	VanessaE	0.4.6 is obsolete.
22:59	Peacock	of minetest_game?
22:59	Peacock	oh
22:59	VanessaE	of the engine/client
22:59	Peacock	but it's slower :(
22:59	Peacock	dont ask me why, it just is for me
22:59	VanessaE	maybe the build you chose is slower e.g. directx when you only use opengl, or vice-versa
22:59	Peacock	i didnt play with anything pre-compile
23:00	Peacock	but paramat's mods seem to work faster in 0.46
23:00	VanessaE	0.4.6*
23:00	VanessaE	zero point four point six
23:01	Peacock	aaaanyways... as a client v7 is as fast, but as a server v6 is faster :/
23:01	VanessaE	ZERO POINT FOUR POINT xxxx
23:01	Peacock	punctuation nazi :p
23:01	VanessaE	when it comes to version numbers, damn right
23:01	pehjota	mgv6?  mgv7?
23:02	VanessaE	those are not the same thing.
23:02	VanessaE	those are related to the internal version of the map generator
23:02		ecube joined #minetest
23:02	VanessaE	just as the protocol is now v21 or somethibng
23:02	* pehjota	is just adding to the "v6" and "v7" confusion. ;)
23:03	Jordach	every 52 days we increment the protocol version by average
23:04	Peacock	you mean they up whether anythings relly changed or not?
23:04	VanessaE	only if something important changes
23:05	Peacock	so what are the differences between 4.6 and 4.7?
23:05	pehjota	s/4.6/0.4.6/ s/4.7/0.4.7/
23:05	VanessaE	Peacock: too many changes to summarize
23:06	VanessaE	http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
23:06	VanessaE	roughly half of that page is changes since 0.4.6
23:06	* arsdragonfly	is monitoring his server on his cell phone
23:07	Peacock	dont really see anything worthy of a performance hit
23:07	Peacock	in fact, i read that the lua main menu was buggy?
23:07	VanessaE	it's still being worked ok
23:07	VanessaE	on*
23:07	VanessaE	it went in after 0.4.7 came out
23:08	VanessaE	and 0.4.8 isn't out yet, so there's still time to tune it
23:08	Peacock	is 0.4.8 going to be faster?
23:08	arsdragonfly	it's so slow :-P it takes forever to echo when trying to type something in
23:08	Peacock	i dont mind skipping a gen
23:08	VanessaE	Peacock: there are a few performance improvements ont he horizon, yes
23:08	VanessaE	on the*
23:09	Peacock	from what i read on the forums most mods haven't even figured out how to properly use voxelman yet
23:09	VanessaE	that's brand new
23:09	VanessaE	(or nearly so)
23:09	sokomine	ah yes, voxelmanip...or rather the schematics...
23:09	* sokomine	keeps looking for hmmmm
23:10	Peacock	i dont really have performance problems with world editing though
23:11	sokomine	it happens when you try to edit larger areas. especially if the areas are not loaded on your server. mostly during mapgen
23:11	sokomine	then voxelmanip/place_schematic is very helpful
23:14	Peacock	what new features with the next one have?
23:15	Peacock	erm *will
23:16		Kacey joined #minetest
23:17	Jordach	http://mg.viewskew.com/u/jordach/m/r-s-e-title/ <- more music
23:20		dzho joined #minetest
23:22	Peacock	everyone's either speaking spanish or portuguese on my server
23:23	* Peacock	is forever alone
23:23	PilzAdam	in 2 years its chinese
23:23	arsdragonfly	yet it doesn't support that
23:24	PilzAdam	http://translate.minetest.ru/projects/minetest/core/
23:24	PilzAdam	we even have a 100% completed chinese translation
23:24	Peacock	i wouldn't bet entirely on that
23:24	* arsdragonfly	done that all :-)
23:24	Jordach	bwong!
23:24	Peacock	there was a big 'wtf' when chinese banks stopped lending to eachother a month ago
23:24	arsdragonfly	*s
23:24	arsdragonfly	*'s
23:24	Jordach	who left that gong there ;)
23:25	Peacock	china has an ageing population too
23:25	Peacock	and the US may be headed for energy self-sufficiency soon
23:26	Peacock	i hope thats the case, we won't have to be so involved in the middle east
23:26	PilzAdam	China already owns 2/3 of the US
23:27	Peacock	yeah but what does that mean if the US keeps printing money in the quantities it does?
23:27	arsdragonfly	on the public debt market ?
23:27	PilzAdam	yes
23:27	Peacock	seems like most western countries are trying to inflate the debt away
23:27	Peacock	which is so 80's
23:27	PilzAdam	*20s
23:27	Peacock	as well
23:28		hdastwb joined #minetest
23:28	Jordach	inflation leads to a burst bubble
23:28	arsdragonfly	currencies are all ponzi schemes
23:28	Peacock	but hey, the UK had enormous debt after ww2, and theyre all right
23:28	PilzAdam	"all right"? lol
23:28	Peacock	*fiat currencies are ponzi schemes
23:29	PilzAdam	the EU is going to restrict their banks
23:29	Peacock	well, who has it worse, the brits or the greeks?
23:29	Peacock	and who's bailing out the greeks the keep their own banks from tanking?
23:29	PilzAdam	the portugese
23:29	Peacock	*to keep
23:30	PilzAdam	50% of the under 25 years aged people have no work in portugese
23:30	PilzAdam	ehm *Portugal
23:30	Peacock	if the rest of europe tanks, the germans wont be impervious (sp)
23:30	Jordach	80% of under 25's here dont have work, as workplaces dont bother hiring
23:31	Peacock	thats why theyre looking for free trade deals with US/CDN
23:31	Jordach	and they will fire for no reason
23:31	PilzAdam	the German economy has grown during the financial crisis
23:31	Jordach	this is just a pissing contest with economy
23:31	* Jordach	zips up and sods off
23:31	Peacock	yeah but the germans are essentially bailing out the greeks because the money is owed to their own banks
23:32	Jordach	making the germans more rich
23:32	PilzAdam	^
23:32	PilzAdam	the germans actually get profit out of greek
23:32	Jordach	20 years later: China VS Germany
23:32	Jordach	USA  and Russia collapse
23:32	Peacock	well... out of german taxpayers' pockets and into their bank's pockets, how is that different from the US?
23:33	Peacock	at least germany has a convenient scapegoat in Greece lol the US had occupy wall street
23:33	Peacock	though i know greece cooked the books to get into EU in the first place, they should have never gotten in otherwise
23:34	Peacock	theres something to be said for being able to devaluate your currency to boost trade
23:37	Peacock	in short, we all wish we were boomers :p
23:38		VargaD joined #minetest
23:40	Exio4	hi
23:43	Peacock	people are building some weird shit on my server lol

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