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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2019-03-11

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Time Nick Message
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00:32 Fixer who even uses that thing?
00:50 Fixer *,,.....,,*
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07:27 Emerald2 I got somebody wanting to know how to get 5.0 on android, but I know nothing about that.
07:32 ANAND 5.0.0 is only available on Minetest's beta channel on the play store.
07:34 Emerald2 How do they get there?
07:36 ANAND There's a "Join the beta" section right below Developer contact, IIRC
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07:37 ANAND Emerald2 ^
07:37 Emerald2 Thanks ANAND. :)
07:37 ANAND :)
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10:47 IhrFussel Is it now intentional that MT seems to save changed conf settings on-the-fly (edit file while server runs) or not? And in which cases does this apply?
10:47 IhrFussel Like if I edit my conf right now (server is online) the changes will apply for the next restart, no need to shutdown server first
10:48 IhrFussel Is this cause I use --logfile parameter? Is this cause it's 'minetestserver' process? Or what else could cause this?
11:05 Emerald2 Paramat: I made some progress today in understanding NoiseParams. Particularly from a video where a guy drew graphs and combined them. Sometimes visual representation helps. :) If I might make a suggestion... what would be really helpful is to have a basic lua mapgen that could be experimented with. No trees or decorations, just terrain and a few biomes. The less to complicate the matter, the better.
11:06 Emerald2 Some comments about what higher or lower numbers will do to the terrain generated would help, and also to be able to experiment and see the effects.
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13:24 jas_ what version, IhrFussel?
13:27 IhrFussel 0.4.17.1 but it was always like that... also with 0.4.16, 0.4.15... I think I used no earlier server version than 0.4.15
13:28 IhrFussel I'm pretty sure something in the engine checks if MT runs with certain parameters and then changes the conf save style
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13:45 * twoelk thought the conf is only ever loaded at server startup and always overwritten with the currently active settings of the running system at shutdown
13:46 IhrFussel That would be bad cause I setup my server in a way that the process restarts after 3 secs of any shutdown
13:47 IhrFussel And thankfully that's not the case
13:47 IhrFussel I could change a line in my config file now and restart the server in 5 hours and the changes I made still apply
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13:49 IhrFussel I guess it's to do with either the custom --config path/to/.conf or cause I run the server with no GUI
13:50 IhrFussel Or...simply cause I 'host' ... testing now
13:54 twoelk so with your setup you probably can't change settings from within a running server? hm, no, set blah commands should still write to some live config file
13:54 IhrFussel Okay I think I can confirm that the conf will save in realtime and not be overriden by old values on shutdown when you start the server with no GUI
13:55 IhrFussel No I mean when I start MT with GUI and edit the conf file while the instance runs the changed conf will reset on shutdown
13:56 IhrFussel But if I run MT without GUI (minetest --server) the conf file will have my changes I made while the instance ran
13:57 IhrFussel Let me test with ingame /set
13:57 twoelk interesting
13:59 twoelk and now use a set chat command from within the game and see wether that overides manuall changes to the file made after start and before the chat command.
13:59 twoelk actually it should
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14:03 IhrFussel No /set cannot affect the realtime conf file it seems
14:03 IhrFussel Changes with /set are always temporarily until shutdown
14:07 twoelk hm, if time progress is set to zero and I change the time within the game I always thought on next startup time kept the new value as set ingame.
14:19 Megaf !server Megaf
14:19 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/20, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.17.1 / minetest | Ping: 16ms
14:19 Megaf :O
14:49 IhrFussel AFAIK /set values are only stored in-memory... core devs can probably say for sure
14:49 VanessaE worledit can be used to flush the changes back to the .conf
14:49 VanessaE I forget the command, cheapie would know.
14:50 IhrFussel Sometimes when my server gets flooded with 40+ players I tend to increase the max limit via /set max_users VALUE and whenever my server restarts it's back to 45
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18:32 luk3yx //lua minetest.settings:write() I think
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19:14 red-045 so how did the new release go? I wasn't really around recently
19:16 sofar pretty well, some very minor issues we're working out
19:16 sofar nothing scary enough to warrant a patch release just yet
19:24 IhrFussel Huh? I thought 5.0.1 will release in a few days latest cause of some rather critical inventory bug ... or was that sarcasm?
19:24 sofar the lack of people yelling in here about broken releases is testimony that the issue isn't a catastrophy
19:25 sofar there is a simple workaround and it affects very little people
19:25 sofar at least, that is my understanding
19:39 rubenwardy There will be a patch release in the next few days
19:39 rubenwardy Just waiting on 3 PRs
19:40 Shara I have simply learned not to update until others find the problems :)
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19:40 rubenwardy Mostly trivial
19:40 tenplus1 hi folks :)
19:40 Shara Hi Ten
19:40 tenplus1 hey Shara :) how's you
19:42 tenplus1 been testing mods on mt 5.0 today for server switchover
19:43 * GreenDimond is putting off 5.0.0 mod testing
19:43 tenplus1 hi green :)
19:44 tenplus1 you sticking with 0.4.17 for now ?
19:44 GreenDimond For a good week or two, yeah
19:44 tenplus1 same... that's why I'm testing standalone server mods, and will give players fair notice of switchover when all is done
19:44 tenplus1 so far only had to tinker with 3 mods :D 3d_armor, boats, carts
19:45 sofar minetest-mods seems OK, I think we had one report but it was false
19:45 tenplus1 hi sofar
19:45 sofar hello 013
19:45 tenplus1 what was the one report for ?
19:45 sofar `mg`
19:45 sofar but I loaded it and couldn't reproduce
19:46 tenplus1 am sure things will crop up through time, but should hopefully be fixed quick enough
19:46 GreenDimond Really I think things arent breaking so much as deprecating
19:47 GreenDimond I bet plenty of minetest-mods are spamming logs with deprecation warnings :3
19:47 tenplus1 yeah... lol
19:47 tenplus1 that reminds me, gotta turn warnings on
19:48 sofar GreenDimond: for sure :)
19:49 sofar if only someone would file issues for those ;)
19:49 GreenDimond Dont you wink at me, I havent checked my server log for warnings yet
19:49 tenplus1 lolol
19:50 tenplus1 sofar: I had an idea, dunno if you're interested tho... regarding dirt spreading but expanding it to any nodes
19:51 tenplus1 using a {spreadable=1} group and adding a line to node registry like: spread_to = {nodes},
19:51 sofar moar abms
19:52 tenplus1 nope, a single abm for it all (grass, caverealm moss etc)
19:52 sofar concept is easy enough, ofc
19:52 sofar sure, overload the ABM with more node checks
19:52 sofar but yeah, it's doable
19:53 tenplus1 am thinking it'll save multiple abms for each by having a single one to check it all
19:53 tenplus1 once server has been switched over I'll look into it more and do comparisons
19:55 sofar I'd say for moss we should see if we can do node timers instead
19:55 sofar since they're relatively rare
19:55 tenplus1 not in caverealms, they cover large areas alongside other toppings
19:56 tenplus1 it could have used the current dirt spread abm but that only works for dirt, not cobble
19:56 sofar even grass is rare at the surface
19:56 sofar mathmatically it's only a small percentage of nodes the server considers
19:57 tenplus1 will be worth a look into though :)
19:57 tenplus1 ooh, that reminds me, gotta look into drunk effects in 5.0 and see if that works
19:59 tenplus1 I forked Stamina to add in some special effects for testing :)
20:02 Sokomine need to adjust my traders mod as well
20:02 tenplus1 hi Sokomine :)
20:06 Sokomine hi ten
20:06 tenplus1 aerozoic has tasted red bull first :P
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20:09 tenplus1 wb Megaf
20:19 tenplus1 o/
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20:34 Sokomine regarding settings...wonder if they ought to be stored per world or per mod
20:34 Sokomine perhaps in this case per mod...
20:36 Sokomine ah. hm. yes. that's one of the cases where even reading is considered evil...
20:36 sofar I point my servers to a private copy of minetest.conf with --config
20:36 sofar that way each server doesn't load another server's settings
20:37 sofar downside is that it's read-only then (which is also an upside)
20:38 Sokomine sounds reasonable. can you tell me how to get the settings from minetest.conf? just to be sure. had this first: local cottages_feldweg_mode = Settings(minetest.get_worldpath().."/cottages_settings.txt"):get("cottages_feldweg_mode")
20:38 Sokomine guess in this particular case a global setting is fine. it's unlikely that players want dirt roads to look one way in one world and diffrently in another
20:40 Sokomine just...trying to remove deprecated functions and the like...
20:44 sofar from my server it just looks like the standard minetest.conf
20:44 sofar so the mod code just uses the settings obj directly without a custom path
20:44 sofar which makes coding a lot easier
20:48 sofar Sokomine: https://gitlab.com/sofar/insidethebox/blob/master/mods/conf/init.lua
20:48 sofar heh that's even pre-5.0.0 calls
20:51 Sokomine could be :-) i tried starting the settings, ran into the problem with settingtypes.txt not working with modpacks, didn't know any further and gave up for then
20:52 Sokomine wonder why gitlab needs js to display code...
20:52 Sokomine thanks, sofar
21:08 Sokomine hmm. now...how do i inform the player of the existence of the setting and make it available? settingtypes.txt seems to work for games only...
21:13 Sokomine ah, well, shows up in minetest.conf when i set it in the mod (as expected). just those ingame settings don't show it
21:34 kaeza Sokomine: settingtypes.txt in the root directory of the mod should work.
21:35 kaeza The settings are visible under "Mods/yourmod" in advanced settings.
21:40 kaeza Hmm it does not update immediately when you install a mod from cdb...
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21:54 Fixer holkukuyy shiit
21:54 Fixer beta 1.7~ texture pack from XSSheep
21:56 sofar hmmm?
21:59 Fixer turns out XSSheep is painting texture packs from mc beta times
21:59 Fixer found some threads
21:59 Sokomine kaeza: still couldn't find them :-( the settingtypes.txt is there but seems to get ignored...unless it's a game
22:02 kaeza Sokomine: ah, modpack?
22:02 Sokomine er, no. individual mod. i usually create "games" which just link all the mods i want in that particular game
22:02 kaeza See also #minetest-dev
22:03 Sokomine ah. thanks for opening the issue. settingtypes.txt is irritating sometimes. ought to be helpful for users, but...if devs fail to find the option?
22:04 * Sokomine secretly throws some obsolete minetest.env: calls into the channel which where found in many of her older mod folders (and some not so old)
22:04 rubenwardy :O
22:04 Sokomine please move on! nothing to see here :)
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22:22 red-045 are there still issues with the SRP code? I saw linuxdirk opened an issue about that
22:33 sofar that may or may not be an issue
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23:00 jas_ VanessaE: where the hell did our comments disappear to?
23:01 VanessaE ?
23:01 VanessaE how would I know?
23:01 jas_ you said "this was a dumb idea"
23:01 jas_ i said "c'mon"
23:01 VanessaE oh, I deleted my comment from there and moved it to my issue
23:01 jas_ oh, mine is gone too, i wonder why
23:01 VanessaE #8358
23:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/8358 -- Nodebox facedir no longer rotates textures to follow it.
23:02 VanessaE (whatever github does with follow-ups, nothing I can do :) )
23:02 sfan5 ^ rubenwardy: opinion on whether this can/should be solved for 5.0.1?
23:03 rubenwardy which drawtypes does it affect?
23:04 VanessaE so far, colorwallmounted nodeboxes using overlays
23:04 VanessaE but which of those properties is the real issue, idk
23:04 VanessaE haven't had time to dig further.
23:05 jas_ it's an important feature used in doom level editing, for what that's worth.
23:05 VanessaE solution is simple imho:  get rid of that global setting (revert it to whatever passes for "normal" as compared to 0.4.x)... the per-node-def setting makes sense to keep, though.
23:05 rubenwardy 5.0.1 includes a few big crash fixes, I don't think it should wait more than a few more days before release
23:05 sfan5 agree with that
23:05 VanessaE with what?
23:05 sfan5 I guess this won't be properly fixed in time
23:06 VanessaE oh.
23:06 sfan5 ruben's message
23:06 VanessaE :(
23:07 sfan5 reverting the setting is an excellent temporary fix but I don't think it should be done permanently
23:07 VanessaE why not?
23:07 VanessaE it
23:07 rubenwardy this isn't an area I understand currently
23:08 VanessaE it makes zero sense to have a global "force" option for that
23:08 VanessaE literally no one's worlds would benefit
23:09 sfan5 forcing is enabled by the default? as in: the "enable" option is "force_solid" + "force_nodebox"?
23:09 VanessaE it is.
23:09 VanessaE it's forced to world-aligned by default.
23:11 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/75320e7e88ab5088a46c9e42c1e789cbdacb13b0#diff-70868aa6d6b96c0c1623c761500d23c4R682
23:12 sfan5 "enabled" just means it's not impossible that something is aligned
23:12 sfan5 though I don't exactly understand how this works
23:12 jas_ it is off by default
23:13 VanessaE jas_: apparently, no it isn't
23:13 sfan5 settings->setDefault("world_aligned_mode", "enable");
23:13 sfan5 settings->setDefault("autoscale_mode", "disable");
23:16 VanessaE I don't mind too much having to change my client's setting, on the surface.  I mind having to tell that user, and that one, and that one, .... and everyone else, when they complain that my mods are broken :P
23:17 jas_ all i know is that when i place a node when facing south, the texture is aligned differently than when i place it looking west.
23:17 VanessaE which is as it should be for most nodebox stuff.
23:18 VanessaE i.e. everything that isn't stairs, slabs, slopes, etc
23:18 VanessaE (well not slopes, those are meshes)
23:19 jas_ ...unless it's next to some other node?  i'd have to check, but, there was some feature added where nodes would change their texture's orientation depending upon their neighbor's.
23:19 sfan5 i'm pretty sure the server could just send "do not align" inside every nodedef and it would work
23:20 VanessaE which would either require the server to override its own default, or every node def to be changed to do so.... rendering the setting even more useless than it is now.
23:20 jas_ "this isn't doom" heheheh
23:20 jas_ no, no it is not
23:20 sfan5 VanessaE: well yes, but it would remove the necessity of telling every user about the setting
23:20 VanessaE true.
23:21 VanessaE or you guys could just fix it... either default to whatever passes for "normal mode" as equivalent to 0.4.x, or rip it out altogether....and the former could easily be done in time for 5.0.1
23:22 VanessaE (of course if you do the former, logically the latter ought to be done soon after release anyway)
23:23 jas_ i really like the idea of world-aligned textures, opens up a lot of possibilities for texturing.  did you see those screenshots in the original post?
23:24 VanessaE no, and I don't care to, because that's a property that needs to be set per-node-def.
23:24 VanessaE we had this world-aligned thing early on, after nodeboxes came into being.  it was quickly removed.
23:24 jas_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6105
23:24 jas_ oh really?
23:25 VanessaE yep.
23:25 jas_ it's pretty
23:25 VanessaE c55 changed it to node-aligned, at my suggestion.
23:26 VanessaE now don't get me wrong, that tile scaling thing seems like it could be useful
23:26 VanessaE just not the global all-or-nothing thing.
23:26 red-045 what did the world align look like?
23:27 VanessaE red-045: pretty much as it looks like now.
23:27 VanessaE (now in 5.0.0)
23:27 sfan5 i don't think it's supposed to be all-or-nothing
23:28 red-045 wouldn't most nodes look the same since it's a texture size thing?
23:29 VanessaE red-045: we're not talking about the scaling feature./
23:29 red-045 oh
23:29 VanessaE but the texture rotation thing.
23:29 jas_ you have to do align-style = "world" in the node def's tile def
23:30 red-045 In that case, I'm confused what the change is and why it was made
23:30 VanessaE jas_: yeah, if that weren't already the hard-coded default.
23:31 jas_ https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/75320e7e88ab5088a46c9e42c1e789cbdacb13b0#diff-766c31ee795bde182eeb9244a8f283b5R508 <-- like here.  is that really the default?  i never noticed.
23:31 VanessaE jas_: it is.
23:31 VanessaE [03-11 19:13] <sfan5>  settings->setDefault("world_aligned_mode", "enable");
23:32 jas_ isn't that setting dependent upon `align-style' equaling `world' within the node's tile def?
23:33 VanessaE jas_: did you even *look* at the code I linked to in the bug report?>
23:33 red-045 oh does this basically ignore node rotation?
23:33 jas_ not sure
23:33 jas_ yes, i think so.
23:33 VanessaE it's being applied to nodes that have *no* alignment setting
23:33 red-045 I feel that's a bug then
23:33 red-045 pretty major change to make to how minetest works
23:33 jas_ isn't it supposed to ignore alignment?
23:34 jas_ i thought that's how it worked.
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23:35 jas_ it was added to minimal game mode for checking out, though i never did.  i was excited for this feature, personally, but haven't tried it.
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23:36 red-045 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/75320e7e88ab5088a46c9e42c1e789cbdacb13b0#diff-fc5bd7f599797bce163af517e57a314cR434
23:36 jas_ texmex expressed frustration that no one used it.  i had high hopes someone would.
23:37 red-045 weird when I check other parts of the code it should default to none
23:37 jas_ so it's aligned to `user' by default, and not `world?'
23:37 jas_ or none
23:37 jas_ rather
23:37 red-045 s/none/node
23:39 jas_ ok
23:39 jas_ so it doesn't matter that default setting
23:39 jas_ it depends on the node's tile def?
23:40 jas_ because it's set to alignment to the node by default?
23:40 jas_ (any maybe this is some bug with nodeboxes and not regular nodes?)
23:41 red-045 oh is it set to force by default or something like that?
23:41 VanessaE maybe not "force", but definitely aligned-to-world.
23:42 VanessaE which breaks...pretty much everything that is a plain nodebox, but isn't a stair or slab
23:42 VanessaE (or maybe just colorwallmounted nodeboxes with overlays, for all I know)
23:43 red-045 There must be something more complex going on with the code since it seems to default to node alignment when taking a quick look at it
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23:55 jas_ my backpacks are not a plain nodebox, and they didn't break.  maybe it is just colorwallmounted nodeboxes; definitely worth investigating.
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