| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
they never have the messages |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
they have an encrypted form |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
it's like how ISPs don't save encrypted web views |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
well |
| 00:02 |
rubenwardy |
hopefully |
| 00:03 |
rubenwardy |
this is a matter of law anyway, I personally think that E2E encryption is a necessary tool for privacy, and I prefer to use platforms which use it |
| 00:03 |
IhrFussel |
So you basically can do crimes via WhatsApp and as long as the receiver doesn't report it nothing will happen? |
| 00:03 |
rubenwardy |
like on your server? |
| 00:04 |
IhrFussel |
Not exactly the same... I could see the messages but if my server would make it unreadable for me then it would be the same |
| 00:06 |
rubenwardy |
but anyway, there's a massive different between a server DM and WhatApp PMs |
| 00:06 |
rubenwardy |
server DM is like "come here" |
| 00:07 |
rubenwardy |
"follow me" |
| 00:07 |
rubenwardy |
WhatsApp PM is basically a person 2 person conversation. Requiring companies to unencrypt communication is equally bad as requiring citizens to have spying TVs in their walls blasting propaganda 24/7 |
| 00:09 |
IhrFussel |
Wasn't there a CSM that encrypts the PM and decrypts it for the other user again? Or was it books? Something like that |
| 00:10 |
rubenwardy |
it was ineffectual |
| 00:11 |
IhrFussel |
It wasn't actual encryption correct? Something custom I guess? |
| 00:12 |
luk3yx |
Caesar ciphers are easy to implement, but you could just view all 26 messages side-by-side. |
| 00:14 |
rubenwardy |
lool |
| 00:15 |
rubenwardy |
"actual encryption" is meaningless |
| 00:15 |
rubenwardy |
it used XOR to encrypt, which is not secure at all for that purpose |
| 00:16 |
Jordach |
using XOR is like saying you enjoy having someone saw through your bones |
| 00:20 |
IhrFussel |
Well, goodnight guys |
| 01:39 |
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| 01:50 |
Jordach |
sofar: changes aren't conflicting, ignore git's dumbassery |
| 01:51 |
sfan5 |
git is being a git |
| 01:51 |
Jordach |
it'll be squashed to a single on merge anyway |
| 01:51 |
sfan5 |
haHAAA word play |
| 02:23 |
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| 03:08 |
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| 04:23 |
BillyS |
sfan5: Quick question, if you have the time (and knowledge :P). In the MT authentication, when using AUTH_MECHANISM_SRP, when does the server send the client the salt? Is that in the TOCLIENT_HELLO? |
| 04:39 |
sofar |
left some comments on jordach's PR. All in all looks very good. |
| 04:56 |
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| 12:16 |
sfan5 |
BillyS: there are one (two?) packets that are used especially for SRP iirc |
| 12:30 |
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| 12:32 |
Krock |
!tell Jordach The issue with your PR is that you (probably) merged master into your branch instead of rebasing |
| 12:32 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: I'll pass that on when Jordach is around |
| 12:33 |
Krock |
but "git am" will apply the patches one-by-one, resulting in conflicts which were solved in a later merge commit which becomes useless as soon you resolved the conflicts |
| 12:34 |
Krock |
*in a later merge commit. that merge commit becomes |
| 12:47 |
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| 14:52 |
Jordach |
Krock: one moment |
| 14:52 |
Krock |
how about two? |
| 14:54 |
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| 14:56 |
Jordach |
Krock, on my Linux box, the problem that sofar reported isn't there |
| 14:57 |
Jordach |
ah, now i see what's going on |
| 15:03 |
Jordach |
sofar, Krock fixed it |
| 15:03 |
Krock |
how did I fix it? |
| 15:04 |
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| 15:04 |
Jordach |
i forgot the comma |
| 15:05 |
Krock |
COMMAS ARE IMPORTANT PEOPLE |
| 15:05 |
Jordach |
yes |
| 15:05 |
Jordach |
turns out, y previously had a 0.5x multiplier hiding it under the cover faces |
| 15:05 |
Jordach |
setting it back to previous value 0.22x was visible, 0.44x, hides it for good |
| 15:07 |
ANAND |
lol |
| 15:07 |
Jordach |
0.22x was minetest's previous default setting |
| 15:08 |
Jordach |
but interestingly enough, that multiplier picks how far it sits at the bottom, not top |
| 15:09 |
Jordach |
yep, 0.44x is perfect |
| 15:14 |
Jordach |
Krock, pushed the fix commit |
| 15:16 |
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| 15:27 |
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| 15:36 |
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| 16:18 |
* rubenwardy |
gets forgetting to type -j5 instead of -j3 |
| 16:18 |
rubenwardy |
although, with hyperthreading maybe even -j9 |
| 16:21 |
Krock |
why not $(nproc) ? |
| 16:21 |
rubenwardy |
bit of a mouthful |
| 16:21 |
rubenwardy |
alias time, maybe |
| 16:22 |
rubenwardy |
nproc=8, so with +1 it is 9 |
| 16:28 |
IhrFussel |
Now I had the spammer on my server...the one who floods the chat with some MT hack link |
| 16:29 |
rubenwardy |
I can run minetest at 400 view range with 60FPS |
| 16:30 |
Krock |
how about with valgrind enabled? |
| 16:40 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy: how's the hardware feeling |
| 16:41 |
rubenwardy |
it's very good! |
| 16:41 |
rubenwardy |
there's slight issues with the touchpad |
| 16:41 |
rubenwardy |
I'm trying to work out whether it's hardware or software |
| 16:41 |
Jordach |
but that's a linux problem however |
| 16:41 |
Jordach |
afaik, windows precision is a bit pants on Linux |
| 16:41 |
rubenwardy |
I *think* it happened in Windows too |
| 16:41 |
Jordach |
didn't on thingys 15 |
| 16:41 |
Jordach |
i didn't sense it so to speak |
| 16:42 |
rubenwardy |
if I can't fix it with linux settings, I'll make a copy of my disk for safe keeping then reinstall windows |
| 16:42 |
rubenwardy |
to see if it happens there too |
| 16:42 |
rubenwardy |
if so, dell repair people time! |
| 16:42 |
rubenwardy |
they come to your house to fix it, which is nice |
| 16:43 |
Jordach |
there's a few QC issues, but not many major ones |
| 16:43 |
Jordach |
rubenwardy: feel free to demo my recentest pull on it |
| 16:44 |
Jordach |
(it has appeared to fix the square shaped look of the skybox completely) |
| 16:44 |
rubenwardy |
nice |
| 16:45 |
Jordach |
at least with 8 threads, MT compiles in a snap |
| 16:46 |
Jordach |
also, that M.2 drive probs boots linux in about 3 seconds |
| 16:46 |
Jordach |
if not faster |
| 16:50 |
Calinou |
rubenwardy: THREADS="$(($(nproc) * 3/2))" |
| 16:51 |
Calinou |
Bash doesn't have built-in floating-point arithmetic, so you can do that for using 1.5× the number of CPU threads :P |
| 16:51 |
Calinou |
the value is rounded down IIRC |
| 16:56 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: specs? |
| 16:57 |
rubenwardy |
i7-8550U with 16GB RAM and a 512 SSD |
| 16:57 |
Krock |
beast |
| 16:57 |
rubenwardy |
https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/laptops-notebooks-and-2-in-1-laptops/new-xps-13/spd/xps-13-9370-laptop/cnx37016 |
| 17:00 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: no proper arrow keys |
| 17:01 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: GPU? |
| 17:01 |
rubenwardy |
integrated |
| 17:01 |
rubenwardy |
for £200 I could've got one, but >nvidia |
| 17:02 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: do you have beard? |
| 17:02 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: what's wrong with nvidia? |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
They don't support Linux very well |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
ie: GPU switching doesn't work |
| 17:03 |
Fixer |
ah, it is bad on laptps you mean |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
and desktops |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
well |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
GPU switching is way more important for laptops |
| 17:03 |
rubenwardy |
but anyway, i7s have way better integrated graphics than other classes |
| 17:04 |
Fixer |
linux people say nvidia just works and amd still needs one more tweak (and over 9000 later) |
| 17:04 |
Fixer |
maybe a meme |
| 17:04 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: 4 core? |
| 17:04 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: 4 cores?* |
| 17:05 |
rubenwardy |
there's 8 virtual CPUs |
| 17:05 |
rubenwardy |
but 4 physical ones |
| 17:06 |
Fixer |
nice |
| 17:06 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: beard ready? |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
I have no idea what you mean |
| 17:07 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A4y2092CIAA4kKj.jpg |
| 17:10 |
* rubenwardy |
misses AUR |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
yeah, I miss AUR on Fedora too |
| 17:11 |
Calinou |
integrating tarball-originating software by hand is boring :P |
| 17:12 |
Fixer |
Calinou: reason the arch is soooo popular |
| 17:12 |
Fixer |
but |
| 17:12 |
Fixer |
arch people suck too |
| 17:12 |
Fixer |
reason? |
| 17:12 |
rubenwardy |
manjaro kept breaking and I cba |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
I was on Manjaro last year but couldn't install it on my desktop (I couldn't boot the live ISO last December when I needed it) |
| 17:12 |
Fixer |
where is full install manual on the install disc? |
| 17:12 |
rubenwardy |
ie: latest thing was Android USB support |
| 17:13 |
Calinou |
also, Fedora is more robust in my experience (and still offers recent enough packages for the majority of use cases) |
| 17:13 |
Fixer |
rubenwardy: probably kernel problem |
| 17:14 |
Fixer |
Calinou: do arch users still go to wiki before installing or there is now docs/manual included on disc itse;f? |
| 17:15 |
rubenwardy |
the arch wiki is pretty amazing |
| 17:15 |
Fixer |
yes |
| 17:15 |
Fixer |
arch community is very dedicated |
| 17:15 |
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| 17:15 |
Fixer |
they just need to include TFM on disc itself |
| 17:18 |
Fixer |
feels like Arch is the new Gentoo |
| 17:18 |
Fixer |
remember Gentoo days |
| 17:18 |
Fixer |
? |
| 17:19 |
Fixer |
that mindless all day everyday compiling to have +5% speed up? |
| 17:22 |
Calinou |
heh |
| 17:22 |
Calinou |
Gentoo really fell out of fashion these days |
| 17:27 |
Fixer |
people finally realised they wasted 1xxxxxxxxxx hours of their and cpu time on literally useless task |
| 17:28 |
Fixer |
new and hip https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mx |
| 17:31 |
Krock |
Calinou: right! Slackware is the new to-go distro |
| 17:32 |
Calinou |
to this day, I have more experience with PonyOS than Slackware |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:43 |
Calinou |
nope :( but it has Doom and Quake! |
| 17:43 |
Calinou |
and arbitrary window rotation |
| 17:44 |
Fixer |
arbitrary what? |
| 17:44 |
Fixer |
Calinou: compiz? |
| 17:45 |
Calinou |
nah, it uses its own window manager |
| 17:45 |
Calinou |
"arbitrary" means you can rotate each window by its own angle |
| 17:45 |
Calinou |
(not limited to 90 degree increments) |
| 17:45 |
Fixer |
but why? |
| 17:45 |
Calinou |
it lets you play Doom upside down! |
| 17:54 |
Krock |
mirrored upside-down please |
| 17:55 |
Fixer |
with wobble effect |
| 17:55 |
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| 17:55 |
Fixer |
https://twitter.com/UnusualVideos/status/1061365238467969024 |
| 18:34 |
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| 18:44 |
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| 19:05 |
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| 19:14 |
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| 19:21 |
Krock |
guys we missed the opportunity |
| 19:21 |
Krock |
minetest 4.20 |
| 19:22 |
Krock |
or 0.4.20 |
| 19:38 |
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| 20:20 |
Jordach |
Minetest 6.9 release soon:tm: |
| 20:21 |
luk3yx |
s/:tm:/™./ |
| 20:22 |
Fixer |
Jordach: in 2069 |
| 20:22 |
luk3yx |
s/20/22/ |
| 20:23 |
luk3yx |
Server admins should get control over what CSMs are allowed, but then some of them would just disallow all CSMs. |
| 20:24 |
T4im |
aren't they? i thought the csm's get deployed from the servers |
| 20:24 |
T4im |
csms* |
| 20:24 |
luk3yx |
CSM = Client Side Mod. |
| 20:24 |
T4im |
i am aware |
| 20:25 |
luk3yx |
Servers have no control over them. |
| 20:25 |
T4im |
i thought they get deployed from servers |
| 20:25 |
luk3yx |
No, they're installed and run from clients. |
| 20:25 |
luk3yx |
I think servers should be allowed (sandboxed) CSMs, however that'd be hard to implement. |
| 20:26 |
luk3yx |
Is there a way to switch a node in a CSM (until the server says otherwise)? Client-side door opening would be nice. |
| 20:28 |
T4im |
"Transferring client-sided mods from the server to the client is planned, but not implemented yet." |
| 20:28 |
T4im |
there we go |
| 20:28 |
T4im |
a lot of the ideas wouldn't make sense otherwise |
| 20:30 |
Fixer |
Jordach: To see Minetest 6.9 and die (c) |
| 20:30 |
T4im |
which only leaves the "lets only run those that the server opts in to" feature for after that |
| 20:30 |
luk3yx |
But then server admins would blatantly deny all CSMs. |
| 20:31 |
T4im |
nah, the mods installed could opt-in; like the mtg doors mod could offer a CSM for door opening prediction |
| 20:31 |
rubenwardy |
server-sent CSMs is the reason it was ever added |
| 20:31 |
rubenwardy |
what will happen is servers will be able to stop clients loading their own CSMs |
| 20:31 |
luk3yx |
That is... rude. |
| 20:31 |
T4im |
reasonable |
| 20:31 |
rubenwardy |
then servers can send CSMs |
| 20:32 |
rubenwardy |
there's no good way of whitelisting specific CSMs |
| 20:32 |
luk3yx |
It's reasonable for oredetect and other hacky CSMs, but for legitimately useful CSMs... |
| 20:32 |
T4im |
why not, rubenwardy? |
| 20:32 |
T4im |
idtech3 managed so decades ago :D |
| 20:32 |
rubenwardy |
instead you can disable certain features |
| 20:32 |
rubenwardy |
how would you do it? |
| 20:32 |
rubenwardy |
hashes? |
| 20:32 |
rubenwardy |
ew |
| 20:32 |
T4im |
pretty much, yea |
| 20:33 |
luk3yx |
Modified clients will be able to bypass CSM restrictions anyway, so that's not a valid argument. |
| 20:33 |
T4im |
no matter what you do, indeed |
| 20:33 |
rubenwardy |
the point is to prevent it when they don't modify |
| 20:33 |
T4im |
hashes over the packages give you security for unmodified clients though; and allows the server to opt-in to already installed and known versions |
| 20:34 |
luk3yx |
But what about CSM updates? Every server owner would need to update their hash. |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
the issue with hashes is it essentially makes it impossible to legitimately fork or whatever |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
it has issues |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
much better to have measures in the API for it |
| 20:34 |
rubenwardy |
ie: make the client lie to CSMs, and say default:nyan is default:stone |
| 20:35 |
rubenwardy |
and in the long-term, have actually secure mechanisms |
| 20:35 |
T4im |
could be solved by merkle tree concepts or assymetric crypto signatures instead of hashes |
| 20:35 |
rubenwardy |
like: send blocks with nyans as default:stone |
| 20:35 |
rubenwardy |
then only send the actual nyan when the player has LOS |
| 20:35 |
rubenwardy |
line-of-sight |
| 20:35 |
* luk3yx |
prepares for "that's a bad idea" |
| 20:35 |
rubenwardy |
so even modified clients can't ore detect |
| 20:35 |
luk3yx |
What about GPG signing? |
| 20:36 |
T4im |
well yes, that would be one way |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
the disadvantage is with performance |
| 20:36 |
T4im |
during startup? |
| 20:36 |
T4im |
who cares :D |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
agreed |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
it probably won't be that much of an issue if time is spent optimisating |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
and it would be off by default anyone |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
*anyway |
| 20:36 |
rubenwardy |
would just be nice to have time spent optimisating to begin with |
| 20:37 |
rubenwardy |
hey T4im, do you like optimising? |
| 20:37 |
T4im |
hehe |
| 20:37 |
T4im |
depends what and when |
| 20:37 |
T4im |
i like optimising useful things; but not the things that don't make a difference anyway |
| 20:38 |
rubenwardy |
Sure |
| 20:39 |
rubenwardy |
Well, map loading and mesh gen would be awesome |
| 20:39 |
T4im |
:D |
| 20:39 |
rubenwardy |
There's an issue somewhere |
| 20:42 |
T4im |
the thing you mentioned with selectively sending is quite common indeed; limiting the effect of wallhacks and such; but what i've seen so far had the benefits of static maps (i.e. precompiled LOS info) and some fancy spatial trees to know what was visible |
| 20:42 |
T4im |
minetest might have to get creative there |
| 20:45 |
* T4im |
would love to hear about any concepts; if anyone already came up with some |
| 20:49 |
rubenwardy |
It's done in Minecraft |
| 20:49 |
rubenwardy |
Well, on custom servers |
| 20:49 |
rubenwardy |
Oh cool |
| 20:54 |
T4im |
some server side collision detection as a side effect of something like that would probably not hurt either :D |
| 20:56 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 20:56 |
rubenwardy |
there have been some PRs for that |
| 21:00 |
Jordach |
>paramat complaining about visual changes |
| 21:00 |
Jordach |
how about fix mapgen for once |
| 21:04 |
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| 21:36 |
Jordach |
nerzhul: by same project manager you mean mismanager |
| 21:43 |
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