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IRC log for #minetest-hub, 2018-11-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:02 Jordach experimental regular skybox blending
01:02 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/MXZPwGC.png
01:04 Jordach i've also like shaved off 8 tris
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01:57 MinetestBot benrob0329: Nov-09 22:04 UTC <paramat> too much offtopic from you on 25/10/18. please don't :)
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13:27 Andrey01 hi
13:28 Krock hi
13:28 Andrey01 can anybody explain me how to offset node programmically? for example, on right click
13:29 Krock what do you mean by offset? move the node around?
13:29 Andrey01 yes, just move in minetest world
13:30 Andrey01 are there any methods that implement it?
13:31 Krock minetest.set_node(new_pos, minetest.get_node(old_pos)) minetest.remove_node(old_pos)
13:33 Andrey01 thanks
13:36 Krock !next
13:36 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
13:37 Andrey01 what does it mean above? ^
13:38 Andrey01 what`s command !next ?
13:41 Krock it means anyone else may submit their question
13:41 Krock it's like a queue at the mall
14:08 rud0lf Krock: how much for VIP access to queue? ;)
14:09 Krock rud0lf: uhm.. at least.. a lot.
14:50 Jordach Krock, would you like some smooth vertex blending in the regular skybox?
14:50 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/zR8PhE6.png
14:51 Krock I don't see a difference
14:51 Jordach the bottom of the horizon is more yellow
14:51 Jordach but the top is considerably darker
14:55 Jordach here's what the top sky colour looks like against the gradient blend https://i.imgur.com/mpuR6lP.png
14:59 Krock eeks
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15:21 Jordach Krock, it's there, and it's much smoother than that odd banding we did have
15:23 Andrey01 when i create inventory list "list[inventory_location;list_name;X, Y;W, H]" can i name a list how i want (assign a value to "list_name") or use only reserved names as "craft", "hand", "main"... ?
15:24 Krock use set_list to create any new list
15:26 Andrey01 but can i name a list at will?
15:28 Andrey01 for example, "list_name" = "my_list"?
15:29 Andrey01 in list[]
15:31 Andrey01 can i do so?
15:33 Andrey01 Krock, are you here?
15:33 Krock yes
15:33 Krock and yes
15:34 Andrey01 answer my question please: can i name "list_name" in list[] at will?
15:34 Krock I already did that
15:35 Krock so it will look like this: list[current_player;my_list;0,5;8,4;]
15:38 Andrey01 but can i just name a list without set_list() method in list[inventory_location;my_list;X, Y; W, H] how i want? what to call set_list if i can do so for?
15:39 Krock set_list *creates" a list
15:39 Krock you cannot use lists which don't exist
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18:37 tumeninodes spamathons on the forum lately, such a pathetic way to advertise, and a waste of $ paying for that sort of traffic, as most people today aren't fooled as they were years ago.
18:44 T4im spammers don't spam to fool most people.. they spam to fool some people; which if they spam enough, are enough to make it worth while
18:48 Calinou they also try to fool search engines
18:48 Calinou some of them are copy-pasting real replies and adding links at the end, it's harder to detect
18:48 Calinou (I noticed this on the Godot Q&A forum)
18:59 tumeninodes Jordach, that skybox looks so nice... where's the PR?
19:00 tumeninodes Nvm, I see it
19:12 * Shara did some clean up
19:50 Jordach Fixer_, i think i spent like 20 minutes trying to not have the artificial horizon mess up the sunrise
19:54 Jordach ...and sooner or later, i'll expand the controls for set_sky to allow replacing of the regular sky colours
20:21 Shara For the record: I hate connected nodes
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20:22 Shara disconnected_sides should be a lovely thing, but since anything used there is apparently not rotatable on facedir, instead it kind of fails the moment I want anything other than rotational symmetry
20:24 Shara So my fancy shelving solution only works if we only ever want non-connecting-to-walls shelves that face one single direction :(
20:26 Shara If anyone is curious, these are all a single connected node. But done to any other orientation, it will fail: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/7035183/48305618-fc0c1100-e525-11e8-9681-a1216e4c0a21.png
20:27 Shara Anyonoe have any suggestions/solutions I can try? (And there are reasons I don't make it a separate node)
20:29 tumeninodes you have to show the code too otherwise no one knows what they're looking at
20:29 Shara Sadly I doubt many people have even experimented with disconnected_sides much, but I think that description should be enough if they have, and they can ask if they need the code
20:31 Shara I am fairly sure it's unsolvable with the way things currently work
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20:33 Fixer rubenwardy: still don't have pic previews in contentdb tab in minetest
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20:50 Krock Shara: the textures & shaders look nice tho. Is it a custom texture pack?
20:51 Krock I have the cobble texture different in mind. Maybe it changed recently..
20:52 Shara Krock: these screenshots are from HW, not MTG, so it's a whole different game
20:53 Krock HardWare
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20:53 Shara Hidden Worlds
20:53 Krock HometoWn
20:53 Shara Hopefully Wondering (if you can give a solution)
20:55 Krock a solution for what?
20:55 Shara The shevles are a connected node. The ones with a wooden backing are created using disconnected_sides, where there is no suitable back for them
20:56 Shara But because connected nodes apparently don't know what paramtype2 = "facedir" means, those ones are locked into one orientation
20:57 Shara Being able to rotate a connected connected node is silly of course, but when you start using disconnected options, it can be quite needed...
20:57 Shara Want the code?
20:57 Krock so disconnected_* and connected_* aren't rotated by param2
20:58 Krock or rather, they're not assigned differently depending on the param2 value
20:58 Shara Seems like. The textures rotate and I see param2 change, but the nodebox stays exactly the same
20:58 Krock simply not implemented yet, I guess.
20:59 Shara Worth an issue then? I haven't been sure if there's a reason against it working, other than that it wouldn't have made any sense before the disconnected options existed
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21:01 Krock mapnode.cpp L425 and after would probably have to be adjusted to treat the "neighbors" bits differently depending on params2
21:01 IhrFussel I hope no matter how low players set the "repetive rightclick interval" it can never cause more actions per second than server steps...for example if interval is set to 0.05 but server step is 0.15 will it always just cause 1 action per 0.15 seconds?
21:01 Krock check whether it has been reported already - if not, file a feature request
21:02 Krock hello to you too, IhrFussel  :D
21:02 Shara Sure Krock, thank you
21:02 IhrFussel Hello^^
21:02 Krock IhrFussel: no. They can place as many nodes they want (I think)
21:03 Krock it's surely not restricted to the server step because the client can predict the placement and do another one in the same server step
21:03 IhrFussel Then that setting is completely broken... some servers (CTF for example) can be cheated on with a very low interval
21:04 IhrFussel Just hold right mouse button and build yourself up 50 blocks in a few seconds
21:04 Krock is that cheating?
21:04 Krock there are no node placement restrictions
21:04 IhrFussel I would say it is at least an unfair advantage over other players
21:05 IhrFussel I'm not even sure if rubenwardy sees it as fine
21:05 IhrFussel He also banned someone for changing their FOV on CTF I think
21:06 IhrFussel Which also gives you an unfair advantage on PvP focused servers..cause you can see more stuff around you
21:06 Krock also did that for precision shooting, but the server lag and player movement resulted in being a too major negative factor for this
21:07 Krock there are also ultrawide screens, so that might be justified
21:07 IhrFussel Gamma is another setting that can be considered cheating on PvP servers...cause if one player can see everything while the others see darkness, it's unfair too
21:08 Krock everybody can adjust their shaders to see through stuff or brighten it
21:09 IhrFussel Yes but the question is what is allowed on CTF and what isn't ... it should be clear before you get banned for a BUILTIN setting you changed
21:10 Shara Fussel, are you criticising CTF for banning someone?
21:10 IhrFussel We're not talking about modified clients here
21:10 Shara They were spam crashing the server and filling chat with swearing when I checked there.
21:10 IhrFussel No? I say make clear which settings are safe to change without breaking ToS or whatever
21:11 IhrFussel Cause I'm pretty sure that at least some of the so called "pros" adjusted their client settings in a way that makes gameplay easier for them
21:12 rubenwardy I didn't ban anyone for that reason
21:13 IhrFussel Are you sure? I only know I saw someone posting a screenshot in the thread showing off their custom FOV in a match and the next post was a "thank you for banning me" ... that's just what I saw
21:14 IhrFussel I think Enrico was the username
21:16 rubenwardy Only bans I sent for that user are for spawn killing
21:24 IhrFussel So players are free to change their client settings the way they want as long as they don't set something the default client doesn't support?
22:25 sofar how about you make a forum thread about it
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22:42 Jordach >banning over FoV
22:43 Jordach holy shit that is the biggest piece of retardation i've ever seen in my entire 22 years of existance, barring me
22:43 Jordach FoV is literally there so you don't get motion sick depending on camera view
22:44 Jordach next thing you know he'll start banning displays that aren't 16:9 or 4:3
22:45 Jordach or even banning for the extremely rare and unusal 31:9 or triple monitor setups
22:46 Gael-de-Sailly No one has ever been banned on CTF for FOV adjustments or like
22:46 Gael-de-Sailly it's not cheating, it's just a way to find the setting that fits the best with your material and your vision, depending on your screen
22:47 Jordach Gael-de-Sailly: i mean, people could even do this and be entirely scott free https://lolcoaster.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/EkOeabP.jpg
22:47 Gael-de-Sailly IhrFussel: Enrico was banned for other reasons, we did absolutely not care about his FOV tweak
22:48 rubenwardy also, his longest ban was 2 weeks in June
22:48 Gael-de-Sailly for spawn-killing iirc
22:49 rubenwardy yeah
22:49 IhrFussel Changing the FOV setting DOES give you a wider view and you can see more than a player with the default (70?)
22:50 IhrFussel If you set it high enough you can probably see what's directly next to you
22:50 Jordach spawnkilling in my experience is either imbalanced teams or your team is oblivious to even consider dealing with the shithead
22:51 rubenwardy I would certainly prefer removing the impact of spawnkilling using gameplay mechanics rather than rules
22:51 rubenwardy I think that abuse should be remove through mechanics, not moderation
22:52 rubenwardy but this isn't always possible
22:52 rubenwardy especially as I don't have time for CTF currently
22:54 IhrFussel Also it's a combination of several client settings that gives you possibly an advantage (gamma, repetive right clicks, fov, (certain shaders?)...maybe more)
22:54 Jordach my mouse and keyboard can literally be scripted
22:54 Jordach on their internal processors, and my mouse has a full OLED + ARM core
22:56 IhrFussel IMO servers should be able to enforce certain client settings that affect gameplay... if someone doesn't want to play on that server they can just choose another that gives them the "freedom" they need
22:57 IhrFussel It's already bad enough that modified clients can do such things...but providing a builtin settings menu that applies to every server is just terrible...
22:58 Gael-de-Sailly The advantage is still relatively low compared to what an actual hacked client can provide
22:58 Shara There's generally perfectly legitimate reasons where someone might need those settings.
22:59 Shara So denying them just because one player might utilise them to their advantage and another won't is kind of... not so great
22:59 Gael-de-Sailly yea, as I see it it's more for adapting your settings to your screen, to the way you play, ...
22:59 Gael-de-Sailly like if your screen is not bright enough, it's normal that you can increase the gamma
23:00 * luk3yx still likes the idea of forced (sandboxed of course) CSMs.
23:00 IhrFussel Shara, if the server requires fair PvP (like CTF) then the server settings should be able to overwrite client settings...I personally didn't meet any player yet who *needs* such settings cause of their eyes/ears or whatever
23:00 Gael-de-Sailly On CTF that happened
23:00 Shara Fussel, pretty sure you're personal experience of what players do or don't need isn't going to be a deciding factor here
23:00 Gael-de-Sailly players that weren't able to play at night
23:01 Shara your*
23:01 Shara I have needed to adjust gamma settings in some games before.
23:02 T4im minetest is not a fps for competitive play; and it won't get better by reducing configuration that even actual fps built with competitive play in mind let you configure
23:02 IhrFussel I'm a server owner of a server with 150,000+ accounts ... I'm argaubly the most active server owner in the entire server list (10+ hrs online DAILY) ... if there is ANY server owner who knows what MT player do or don't do it's probably me cause I dedicate almost all my freetime to my server
23:03 Shara ....
23:03 longerstaff13 ...bad time to stumble over a branch and fall in?
23:04 IhrFussel Don't compare me to the majority of other server owners who just check their server once or twice per day maybe and read chat logs... I experience my players LIVE
23:04 Shara Fussel: Said in a channel of very many long term server owners, some of which have been running many servers for very many years.
23:04 * VanessaE wanders in, too
23:04 * luk3yx wonders how to make node timers or minetest.after()s run if the game is paused in singleplayer.
23:04 Shara luk3yx: surely paused is paused, and should be... well, paused?
23:05 luk3yx My rickrolling mod has sounds that play while the game is paused.
23:05 luk3yx But the timers don't stay up-to-date.
23:05 Shara I wouldn't have expected them to, but never looked into exactly what pausing stops
23:05 VanessaE sounds like the event that keeps making the sounds play should also be paused.
23:06 T4im it's perfectly normal that people that go into a "competitive" mode start turning up gamma, and reducing special effects that would distract; expected to the point that xonotic and warsaw even have a rendering mode as a preset for competitive players
23:06 VanessaE pausing is supposed to stop everything except GPU shaders.
23:06 * luk3yx should see if they can get the whole song on without breaching copyright
23:06 VanessaE luk3yx: nope.  you can't.
23:06 luk3yx I have to turn up gamma and reduce particles on my 2005 laptop or it just won't run nicely.
23:06 luk3yx Aww.
23:06 Shara And IhrFussel, no, I don't compare you to the majority of server owners, but compared to the group of more serious server owners here, please don't act like you are something exceptional with more insight than anyone else.
23:07 IhrFussel Shara, I said I'm arguably the most active server owner... of course that also means I have no job and not much else to do BUT it still means I have all day for my server to spend on
23:07 longerstaff13 how do you pay for your server?
23:07 longerstaff13 or pay you rbills if you don;t have a job?
23:08 T4im well; i agree that players would fiddle with settings for advantage; i'm just saying that is normal and ok
23:08 Shara Fussel, you said a bit more than that.
23:08 * luk3yx backs out
23:08 Shara And you also isolate yourself to only your server, so it's also arguable you know very little about players on servers more generally
23:09 longerstaff13 Shara has a point; I've never seen Ihr on any other server
23:09 * luk3yx /part
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23:09 IhrFussel I meant it as "I watch my players and talk to them in realtime cause of my huge online time I spend on there" ... so I got a pretty good idea of how most MT players behave
23:09 xerox123 what is that we're discussing if you don't mine, too much read back and figure out...
23:09 xerox123 mind*
23:10 VanessaE apparently IhrFussel is a minetest player psychologist ;)(
23:10 VanessaE ;)
23:10 longerstaff13 lol
23:10 Shara I guess we know where to send all our misbehaving players now
23:11 IhrFussel I suggested to add a way to enforce certain gameplay settings server side because I have yet to meet a player who desperately needed fov, gamme etc to be able to enjoy the game ... and then others told me "what you personally experienced doesn't matter at all"
23:11 longerstaff13 I can send some from LS-Wonderland ;)
23:11 xerox123 I changed my FOV to 120, from when I used to play on CTF
23:12 xerox123 got so used to I can't use anything else
23:12 Shara IhrFussel: Don't misquote me
23:12 Jordach >dictating player experience
23:12 Jordach we've found the steve jobs of MT
23:12 T4im again, even games build with competitive gameplay in mind that have much more experience in that than minetest, do not take away the option to change things like gamma, rarely fov, or other graphics settings that could be used for an advantage
23:12 Gael-de-Sailly IhrFussel: I've personally seen several player who "deserately" needed gamma
23:12 Shara T4im is totally right in this.
23:13 Gael-de-Sailly *"desperately"
23:13 IhrFussel If you allow such settings per-player then the gameplay will NEVER be 100% fair and also not 100% skill-based
23:14 Shara Well no, when you have players using desktop computers and others playing from phones, it won't be
23:14 Jordach tell that to the Quake 3 and UT98/04 players
23:14 Jordach they want to tweak every last function
23:14 T4im IhrFussel: nothings tops a player from turning up gamma on the monitor or via the operating system
23:14 T4im it will just look worse
23:15 IhrFussel T4im, you can still see better in the dark with it which is the point (I mean with gamma, increasing screen brightness will probably do nothing)
23:15 Shara I've played with some of these settings, and though, for example, you can make it easier to see in the dark, it doesn't look great and I was quick to switch back
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23:15 Shara But that was my choice. There's nothing stopping me using the setting if I decide I have a disadvantage by not doing so.
23:17 Jordach if you tried doing shit like that, i'd immediately start disassembling MT and removing those server sided locks
23:17 Jordach or just building a full Cheat Engine library trainer
23:18 luk3yx Oh, it hasn't finished.
23:18 luk3yx Less settings customisations = Less users = "Told you so"...
23:19 Jordach why'd you think DOOM and Quake 3's multiplayer hasn't died yet? no single authority telling them how to play their game
23:19 Jordach micromanaging players = eventual decline and dead server
23:19 Jordach if i wanted that, i'd play hometown
23:19 IhrFussel More options is not always better...it can destroy server gameplay but that is less important right?
23:20 Shara These are really basic options you get in all kinds of games though...
23:20 Shara There's a whole bunch of things I feel servers should be able to control, but not this
23:20 IhrFussel paramat said is well recently... "your computer = your decision" only applies in SP and on servers you cannot do whatever you like
23:21 luk3yx IhrFussel: Settings can be abused, but a lot of players (including me on my low-end devices) need them to play.
23:21 T4im it's not a "all or nothing" thing, gameplay relevant features can already be deactivated serverside like minimaps; but gameplay irrelevant things like graphics is just too extreme
23:22 T4im maybe you can find some things that are actually in need to be server side managed, but graphics isn't one of them
23:22 IhrFussel I would argue that a view range of 50 vs 100 doesn't make a difference as much as fov 70 vs 100 for example
23:22 luk3yx There's no real way to restrict client-side settings, even if you could run system-level commands a nicely written program could create a convincing honeypot.
23:22 Jordach i basically leave my servers to one or two rules; don't bollock up the server, and definitely no personal inter-relations
23:23 Jordach tl;dr you sort your own shit out, not my job to dig you out of that 1x2x1 pit you made yourself
23:23 T4im you forbid friendship? :o
23:23 IhrFussel I also didn't say that MY server needs those restrictions ... it's a very small portion of servers... creative servers and standard survival servers probably don't mind it
23:24 Jordach T4im: i mean the bugger off with the dating RP crap
23:24 T4im oh
23:24 T4im right
23:24 T4im i forgot that's a thing in minetest
23:25 Jordach i don't mind regular friendships and trading mechanics
23:25 Jordach those can be as organic as you want
23:25 IhrFussel "no dating" rules are too vague...some servers even disallow couples playing there because they are dating in RL
23:25 VanessaE I have that same rule on my servers.  no dating, no roleplay.  because it irritates people
23:25 luk3yx "No dating" means "no dating on the server".
23:25 Jordach 1) don't break my server / get it stuck in a reboot loop, 2) RP over discord or roblox
23:25 VanessaE right.
23:26 luk3yx I don't think server owners really care what you do outside the server, and if they do, .disconnect.
23:26 VanessaE if they're dating IRL, it's okay to bring it to the server, just keep it subtle.
23:26 IhrFussel No dating on the server can include "2 people dating and playing on the server"
23:26 luk3yx No, that's micromanaging player's real lives.
23:26 Shara I don't mind a couple playing who tell me they are actually together in their actual lives. But if they started typing inappropriate things on my server, that would be a no.
23:26 xerox123 ^
23:27 xerox123 that too ^
23:27 Shara Rules on a server are rules on the server.
23:27 Jordach that's my train of thought
23:27 IhrFussel I hope in PMs they are free to do whatever
23:27 Shara It's like if I have a "no swearing" rule, you wouldn't assume I mean you can't play if you swear off the server
23:27 IhrFussel Cause PMs should not restrict love
23:27 Shara I don't want it in PMs either. That is still on my server
23:28 luk3yx You still shouldn't be allowed to harass users in PMs (/me glares at [someone]).
23:28 Shara There's always potential for some nasty and inappropriate things via PM
23:28 VanessaE https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/FqvZhKNGwp/
23:28 Jordach just disable the command server side
23:28 VanessaE that's my servers' rules.
23:28 IhrFussel If 2 people AGREE to have a sex chat...you would read the PM history of them and punish them accordingly?
23:28 Shara Intentionally, no.
23:29 Shara I don't go through all Pms on the server.
23:29 VanessaE (there's more shown to players, but it's just info like how to get interact, reboot info, admins, and so on
23:29 VanessaE )
23:29 Jordach at this point i'm lassiez faire when it comes to rules, if you have beef with someone, that's your job to resolve it
23:29 Jordach Kray's server was the best server
23:30 Shara My concern basically comes down to people pretending to be younger than they are and messing very young players with things they really shouldn't
23:30 Shara messaging*
23:30 Shara I'd rather remove the risk of that completely.
23:30 Shara And an MT server isn't a dating app.
23:31 Shara It's not the purpose of the server.
23:31 IhrFussel On my server only the public chat is moderated unless I receive a report about something happening in PM or when I have a suspect (potential pedo, bully etc)
23:32 Shara Your server Fussel, so up to you what risks you want to take, but personally I don't want them.
23:32 IhrFussel If something bad happens in PM my players are expected to be able to file a report...if they don't then they probably don't care enough
23:33 Jordach Rule 29, 30: There are no girls on the internet, and if they claim they are, they're FBI
23:33 Shara If someone is being abused, they likely won't.
23:33 Jordach also, pools closed
23:34 Jordach i think the original 50 rules of the internets was a *great* idea for setting your expectations
23:34 Jordach i.e, https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/030/662/rules.jpg.jpg
23:35 IhrFussel I already mentioned it multiple times but German law even likely forbids server admins to read PMs without very good reason... PMs are treated as "electronical letters between 2 persons" ... but that law also only makes me responsible for stuff in PMs when I get to know about it
23:35 Jordach VanessaE: Rule 9... never question the Banhammer.
23:36 VanessaE https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2061106
23:36 VanessaE that's MY banhammer ;)
23:36 Jordach VanessaE: pass me one of these would ye
23:37 VanessaE print your own, you cheapskate ;)
23:37 Jordach i'd even feed you money
23:37 BillyS IhrFussel: So did I report the Plebs harassment issue to you well enough to allow you to read PMs?
23:38 BillyS Also, most server just have a disclaimer that says "Your PMs aren't private.  Don't like it, don't play here."
23:38 BillyS *servers
23:38 Jordach BillyS: i've gone as far as to symlink /dev/null as debug.txt, so it's *never* logged anywhere on this earth
23:38 BillyS Huh
23:38 BillyS I wouldn't do that
23:38 rubenwardy I don't think PMs are even called PMs anywhere
23:38 luk3yx PMs - Public Messages.
23:39 BillyS rubenwardy: Yes, in Discord they are "DM"s now
23:39 IhrFussel BillyS, it#s not that simple there...because the PMs were not between him and you but between him and someone else... pretty sure I would have to ask the other mentioned person first before I can read THEIR PMs
23:39 Jordach if it's restart looping - it'll be on the console
23:39 BillyS "Direct Message"
23:39 rubenwardy Ah, it does say private message in the help
23:39 BillyS IhrFussel: Ah, I figured that you could read all PMs from Plebs if you though he was harassing
23:39 rubenwardy Should be changed to direct really
23:39 Shara My server isn't a place for personal info. I don't want it and I ask player's not to give it out in game.
23:39 Jordach ^
23:39 BillyS ^
23:39 Shara rubenwardy: yes, agreed
23:40 Jordach ah, i think i know why i'm getting anxiety pains again
23:40 IhrFussel DMs on discord as private messages...they just chose to rename them for coolness maybe
23:40 IhrFussel are*
23:41 xerox123 Instagram calls them DMs
23:41 IhrFussel I never heard "Direct Message" referring to personal messages before...maybe I live under a rock but no social network or app I ever used, used that term
23:41 xerox123 and I don't think they're looking for much of a cool factor
23:41 xerox123 Twitter too AFAIK
23:43 BillyS I think it's because they aren't actually private
23:43 BillyS Seeing that Discord sells user information / messages
23:44 IhrFussel BillyS, if you know what exactly they talked about in PM then I could look for that specific sentence to just see the relevant info
23:44 BillyS IhrFussel: I know they called me a childlover in a PM between Plebs and Pirate
23:44 BillyS That's about all I know
23:45 BillyS You'd probably have to ask Pirate for more if that isn't enough.
23:48 Shara BillyS: what's the plan? To ban people who express opinions (however false they may be) in private?
23:50 BillyS Shara: No, not really.  I just don't appreciate Plebs getting little digs in on me all the time, and I want people to realize that he has a reputation of this and that his statments are lies
23:51 Jordach BillyS: wrong
23:51 BillyS Jordach: ?
23:51 Jordach ToS explicitly mentions they refuse to do that
23:51 BillyS Oh, about Discord?
23:51 Jordach yes
23:52 BillyS Hmm ... time to talk to luk3yx about that. :P
23:52 BillyS He told me they did ... huh.
23:52 luk3yx BillyS: I didn't.
23:52 BillyS You didn't?
23:52 luk3yx I dislike Discord, I said nothing about PM reading.
23:52 BillyS Now I'm confused
23:52 BillyS I though that's why you didn't use it
23:52 luk3yx No, it's proprietary.
23:52 luk3yx They /could/ PM read and get away with it, no evidence.
23:53 luk3yx I didn't say they /do/, however.
23:54 IhrFussel Just like WhatsApp (if anyone here knows what it is...seems to be rather unknown in USA)
23:54 luk3yx Isn't that a social media thing?
23:55 IhrFussel It's the most popular messaging app in Europe...by far ... mostly because texting is still not free in many tariffs here
23:56 IhrFussel They promise to only keep a message as long as it didn't reach the target user and nobody would read it/access it
23:56 rubenwardy Whatsapp is also end to end encryptes
23:56 rubenwardy Also, WhatsApp can't read your messages
23:57 rubenwardy Assuming you trust they don't share the keys to themselves
23:57 rubenwardy Or have any other back doors
23:57 Jordach i can't find anything in big D's ToS or Privacy related to DMs
23:58 IhrFussel rubenwardy, but I wonder how they are allowed to delete all messages when they reach their targets...like what if FBI (or other governmental properties) ask for certain contents between people?
23:59 IhrFussel To solve a crime for example

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