| Time |
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Message |
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| 05:31 |
sofar |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21158 |
| 05:31 |
sofar |
please comment |
| 05:45 |
GreenDimond |
sofar: Maybe put a reference * on the "But I dont like server modifications" section because I almost called BS because I didnt read the next part :P |
| 05:49 |
sofar |
the -ND part? |
| 05:49 |
GreenDimond |
The part above it and that, yeah. |
| 05:49 |
GreenDimond |
"choose this and that" *oh but wait* "dont" |
| 05:49 |
sofar |
yup, I felt it was important for the thread to understand why sometimes you just may have to choose it and accept the consequences |
| 05:49 |
sofar |
I'll make it a little bit less of a trap, hold up |
| 05:51 |
sofar |
reload, is that better? |
| 05:52 |
GreenDimond |
Yes, thankyou :D |
| 05:52 |
T4im |
you make it sound like a public-domain like license would be a problem as public domain instead of a license would be |
| 05:54 |
sofar |
they are all the same problem |
| 05:55 |
T4im |
i haven't heard of any issues with CC0 for example |
| 05:55 |
sofar |
that's different |
| 05:55 |
T4im |
and public domain like license != public domain, huge difference |
| 05:55 |
sofar |
it actually IS a license |
| 05:56 |
sofar |
CC0 != Public Domain |
| 05:56 |
T4im |
indeed |
| 05:56 |
T4im |
neither is unlicense or wtfyw |
| 05:56 |
T4im |
they are just less professional i guess :D |
| 05:56 |
T4im |
but you could point cc0 out as a better equivalent of those |
| 05:56 |
sofar |
CC0 is fine, btw, we can certainly add it to the list of acceptable licenses somewhere |
| 05:57 |
sofar |
ah, I have a good spot for it |
| 05:58 |
T4im |
:D |
| 05:59 |
* VanessaE |
sneaks up behind sofar and slides a copy of WTFPL onto the table |
| 06:00 |
sofar |
put it with the dead horse |
| 06:00 |
sofar |
for later beating |
| 06:00 |
sofar |
thanks for feedback though, that was a big miss (CC0) |
| 06:01 |
sofar |
I should perhaps explain why CC0 is ok... |
| 06:04 |
T4im |
or why PD is not :D "how is it harder?" - "it remains copyrighted in many places" |
| 06:06 |
sofar |
sure |
| 07:22 |
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| 15:33 |
IcyDiamond |
https://i.lunasqu.ee/2018-11-08-17-30-46.mp4 I haven't died! Still modding! |
| 15:41 |
Jordach |
IcyDiamond: that loads slow as shit on my fiber connection |
| 15:43 |
IcyDiamond |
blame ipfs |
| 15:43 |
Jordach |
kek |
| 15:43 |
IcyDiamond |
my vps's provider doesnt like it so i have to use another gateway |
| 15:43 |
IcyDiamond |
it seems i've chosen the slowest one |
| 16:31 |
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| 16:48 |
Fixer |
nice |
| 16:48 |
Fixer |
IcyDiamond: text is somewhat hard to read on that fucking default black ugly minetest formspecs |
| 16:49 |
IcyDiamond |
? |
| 16:49 |
IcyDiamond |
i mean it uses default gui bg indeed, so, like, texture packs |
| 16:49 |
Fixer |
IcyDiamond: 0:30 sec |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
IcyDiamond: text in tooltip is somewhat hard to read |
| 16:50 |
IcyDiamond |
ah |
| 16:50 |
Fixer |
or maybe it iis vid compression |
| 16:50 |
IcyDiamond |
its fine in game, the video is just low quality |
| 16:51 |
IcyDiamond |
at least in my opinion |
| 16:51 |
IcyDiamond |
I might change the background color |
| 16:51 |
IcyDiamond |
https://i.lunasqu.ee/Screenshot_18-11-08-18:51:26.png |
| 16:52 |
Fixer |
IcyDiamond: bottom text is a problem "Power used" |
| 16:52 |
Fixer |
grey on greyish |
| 16:52 |
IcyDiamond |
yeah i'll change that |
| 16:54 |
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| 16:54 |
Andrey01 |
hi |
| 16:54 |
Andrey01 |
can anybody help me with a code please? |
| 16:59 |
Andrey01 |
in general a problem consists of what when i sit the chair node and then try to stand up it works wrong (at first chairs.sit_player() is called and then chairs.standup_player()) |
| 16:59 |
Andrey01 |
why it works wrong is a player actually can NOT stand up (it changes only animation) |
| 17:01 |
Andrey01 |
and also in the if condition when third branch is true, it somewhy does not print anything (minetest.debug()), although it seems to call chairs.standup_player() ! |
| 17:04 |
Andrey01 |
hmm... is anybody around now? |
| 17:13 |
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| 17:57 |
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| 18:14 |
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| 18:14 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: Nov-07 20:49 UTC <tumeninodes> , I love the new glass... but you should have fixed obsidian glass door at the same time ;) giddyup :D |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
!tell tumeninodes and while I'm already at it - replace the obsidian glass door, obsidian glass slabs and then rework obsidian (without glass) ... |
| 18:15 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: I'll pass that on when tumeninodes is around |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
<3 MinetestBot |
| 18:15 |
MinetestBot |
<3 Krock |
| 18:38 |
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| 18:38 |
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| 18:46 |
Andrey01 |
question: how to rotate a node? for example, on right clicking it turns 90 degrees around Y axis |
| 18:49 |
Krock |
screwdriver |
| 18:50 |
Andrey01 |
without screwdriver? is there any method that does it? |
| 18:51 |
Andrey01 |
just on right click independently of what a player wields |
| 18:51 |
Krock |
set up a lookup table and change the param2 value of the node according to these values |
| 18:51 |
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| 19:15 |
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| 19:28 |
xerox123 |
o/ |
| 20:18 |
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| 20:29 |
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| 20:30 |
benrob0329 |
sofar, to me the explanation for Apache 2.0's incompatibility still seems arbitrary, but this also seems like an issue from the FSF's way of declaring licenses "compatible" |
| 20:33 |
benrob0329 |
I mean, why is it compatible with GPL 3, but not 2, and why is a more permissive license than either version (LGPL 2.1) not compatible, but version 3 is? but its not explicitly stated, and it sounds like it might be one way, but its one way for GPL 3 |
| 20:34 |
benrob0329 |
and depending on the reasons behind all of this, BSD, MIT, and other might have the same issue |
| 20:34 |
nerzhul |
hi benrob |
| 20:36 |
benrob0329 |
From what I can gather, it might be because of the patent clauses in Apache 2, but it might also be because of the more permissive nature |
| 20:36 |
benrob0329 |
and if it's the latter, its only one way |
| 20:36 |
benrob0329 |
hello nerzhul |
| 20:36 |
benrob0329 |
License compatibility research is fun... |
| 20:38 |
benrob0329 |
For most licenses, you just need to make sure that all copyright statements are present (in the program somewhere for BSD), and that licenses for libraries are stated |
| 20:38 |
benrob0329 |
but when GPL comes into the mix, things get waaay more complicated |
| 20:40 |
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| 20:42 |
benrob0329 |
https://developer.jboss.org/thread/147636?_sscc=t |
| 20:42 |
benrob0329 |
looks like they might be fine if you don't have two licenses in the same file (which you should never do anyways) |
| 20:44 |
benrob0329 |
Ok, I think I understand now |
| 20:45 |
benrob0329 |
Apache 2.0 code can be included in GPL 3 (and most likely LGPL 2.1) projects because it is a permissive license and allows sub-licensing |
| 20:46 |
benrob0329 |
However, GPL code cannot be included in an Apache 2.0 project because it is a more restrictive license, however I believe if the multi-licensed nature of the project was made explicit you would be fine. |
| 20:47 |
benrob0329 |
In the end though, contributions to a project should always take on that project's license, making the whole issue null |
| 20:52 |
Calinou |
benrob0329: the reason not to use Apache 2 for Minetest mods is that it's seldom used in the community |
| 20:52 |
Calinou |
when it comes to licensing, it's usually good to follow the herd |
| 20:53 |
benrob0329 |
the herd uses (or at least, did use) WTFPL |
| 20:53 |
benrob0329 |
Many People still use WTFPL, or MIT, or LGPL, or CC0 |
| 20:54 |
benrob0329 |
but then people like VanessaE use BSD |
| 20:54 |
Calinou |
my mods use zlib but these days I'd use MIT |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
no I don't? |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
I usually use WTFPL + CC-by-SA |
| 20:56 |
sofar |
s/WTFPL/ISC/ please, if you can |
| 20:56 |
benrob0329 |
VanessaE, I'm pretty sure I've seen your mods use BSD, but It might have been an adopted mod |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
sofar: meh... |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
wtfpl isn't even a license |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
benrob0329: most likely something I'd taken-up, yeah. |
| 20:57 |
benrob0329 |
ISC is nice and small, but I though there was some controversy over a slightly vague statement |
| 20:57 |
VanessaE |
sofar: basically, I don't care what people do with my code. |
| 20:57 |
sofar |
I could sue you over it, in some countries |
| 20:57 |
benrob0329 |
CC0 or ISC or MIT |
| 20:58 |
benrob0329 |
BSD in this case is equivalent due to the fact that its a script, but compiled languages might be required to include a notice in the program itself |
| 21:01 |
rubenwardy |
VanessaE: what they code do is sue you for damages |
| 21:01 |
rubenwardy |
There's no warranty disclaimer |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
The OSI also says it legally might as well be public domain |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
So wtfpl isn't an OSI approved license |
| 21:02 |
rubenwardy |
Or a fsf approved one either |
| 21:03 |
sofar |
which is why in minetest-mods I've pretty much insisted that everything should be OSI |
| 21:03 |
sofar |
btw, great that people take the time to read the article I wrote and are discussing it |
| 21:03 |
sofar |
:D |
| 21:04 |
benrob0329 |
Its a good article, I just feel that a few things should be better explained :-) |
| 21:04 |
rubenwardy |
*could |
| 21:04 |
rubenwardy |
(in my above message) |
| 21:08 |
VanessaE |
well, if I switch away from WTFPL, it'll be to CC0. |
| 21:08 |
sofar |
I want it to remain readable in a short amount of time |
| 21:08 |
sofar |
it shouldn't be a wikipedia article |
| 21:09 |
sofar |
so it will be a compromise |
| 21:09 |
rubenwardy |
Cc0 has similar issuee |
| 21:10 |
sofar |
as the article states, avoid CC- for code |
| 21:10 |
Calinou |
CC0 is less problematic for code but still not OSI-approved |
| 21:10 |
* VanessaE |
sighs |
| 21:15 |
sofar |
VanessaE: gheghe, we're giving you a hard time |
| 21:15 |
sofar |
we understand your motive, though |
| 21:44 |
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| 22:27 |
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| 22:44 |
Jordach |
Fixer: biggest case of rollsafe i've ever seen |
| 22:44 |
* Jordach |
taps forehead |
| 22:49 |
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| 23:01 |
VanessaE |
sofar: you need links to ISC, AGPL, and others. |
| 23:03 |
VanessaE |
(found it anyway) |
| 23:08 |
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| 23:11 |
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| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
screw it. LGPL 3.0+ for code, CC-by-SA 4.0+ for media. |
| 23:11 |
VanessaE |
I'll do that everywhere that I can |
| 23:13 |
* VanessaE |
pokes sofar |
| 23:13 |
T4im |
if you want to stay permissive MIT license is usually fine.. it's essentially "do what you want, expect no warranty though, and keep this notice around in the source files so noone else is expecting warranty either" |
| 23:23 |
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| 23:28 |
sofar |
VanessaE: +10 |
| 23:28 |
VanessaE |
you don't mention LGPL 3.0 on your post btw |
| 23:28 |
VanessaE |
(rather, 2.1) |
| 23:34 |
benrob0329 |
I feel like we could use indexed PNGs as a colorization method |
| 23:34 |
benrob0329 |
ie change the palette of the PNG, rather than colorizing the whole thing |
| 23:39 |
sofar |
lgpl-3 is not downgradeable to 2 |
| 23:40 |
sofar |
but it's reasonable for mods, anyway |
| 23:42 |
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| 23:43 |
T4im |
the problem i see is that there is a lot of copy-pasting going on; possibly by people that don't care that much about licenses |
| 23:43 |
T4im |
which might lead to awkward mix-scenarios for things like lgpl or gpl code |
| 23:44 |
T4im |
like someone taking lgpl code from one of VanessaE's mods, changing it a little and offering it up to another mod which might be licensed non-gpl |
| 23:45 |
T4im |
if that isn't noticed you end up with problems, you wouldn't have if that was permissively licensed code |
| 23:45 |
Jordach |
status of open source licensing 2018: https://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 23:50 |
sofar |
tbh that's not really applicable to "oss licenses in 2018" |
| 23:50 |
sofar |
license changes have been slow as a slug |
| 23:51 |
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