Time  Nick        Message
05:31 sofar       https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21158
05:31 sofar       please comment
05:45 GreenDimond sofar: Maybe put a reference * on the "But I dont like server modifications" section because I almost called BS because I didnt read the next part :P
05:49 sofar       the -ND part?
05:49 GreenDimond The part above it and that, yeah.
05:49 GreenDimond "choose this and that" *oh but wait* "dont"
05:49 sofar       yup, I felt it was important for the thread to understand why sometimes you just may have to choose it and accept the consequences
05:49 sofar       I'll make it a little bit less of a trap, hold up
05:51 sofar       reload, is that better?
05:52 GreenDimond Yes, thankyou :D
05:52 T4im        you make it sound like a public-domain like license would be a problem as public domain instead of a license would be
05:54 sofar       they are all the same problem
05:55 T4im        i haven't heard of any issues with CC0 for example
05:55 sofar       that's different
05:55 T4im        and public domain like license != public domain, huge difference
05:55 sofar       it actually IS a license
05:56 sofar       CC0 != Public Domain
05:56 T4im        indeed
05:56 T4im        neither is unlicense or wtfyw
05:56 T4im        they are just less professional i guess :D
05:56 T4im        but you could point cc0 out as a better equivalent of those
05:56 sofar       CC0 is fine, btw, we can certainly add it to the list of acceptable licenses somewhere
05:57 sofar       ah, I have a good spot for it
05:58 T4im        :D
05:59 * VanessaE  sneaks up behind sofar and slides a copy of WTFPL onto the table
06:00 sofar       put it with the dead horse
06:00 sofar       for later beating
06:00 sofar       thanks for feedback though, that was a big miss (CC0)
06:01 sofar       I should perhaps explain why CC0 is ok...
06:04 T4im        or why PD is not :D "how is it harder?" - "it remains copyrighted in many places"
06:06 sofar       sure
15:33 IcyDiamond  https://i.lunasqu.ee/2018-11-08-17-30-46.mp4 I haven't died! Still modding!
15:41 Jordach     IcyDiamond: that loads slow as shit on my fiber connection
15:43 IcyDiamond  blame ipfs
15:43 Jordach     kek
15:43 IcyDiamond  my vps's provider doesnt like it so i have to use another gateway
15:43 IcyDiamond  it seems i've chosen the slowest one
16:48 Fixer       nice
16:48 Fixer       IcyDiamond: text is somewhat hard to read on that fucking default black ugly minetest formspecs
16:49 IcyDiamond  ?
16:49 IcyDiamond  i mean it uses default gui bg indeed, so, like, texture packs
16:49 Fixer       IcyDiamond: 0:30 sec
16:50 Fixer       IcyDiamond: text in tooltip is somewhat hard to read
16:50 IcyDiamond  ah
16:50 Fixer       or maybe it iis vid compression
16:50 IcyDiamond  its fine in game, the video is just low quality
16:51 IcyDiamond  at least in my opinion
16:51 IcyDiamond  I might change the background color
16:51 IcyDiamond  https://i.lunasqu.ee/Screenshot_18-11-08-18:51:26.png
16:52 Fixer       IcyDiamond: bottom text is a problem "Power used"
16:52 Fixer       grey on greyish
16:52 IcyDiamond  yeah i'll change that
16:54 Andrey01    hi
16:54 Andrey01    can anybody help me with a code please?
16:59 Andrey01    in general a problem consists of what when i sit the chair node and then try to stand up it works wrong (at first chairs.sit_player() is called and then chairs.standup_player())
16:59 Andrey01    why it works wrong is a player actually can NOT stand up (it changes only animation)
17:01 Andrey01    and also in the if condition when third branch is true, it somewhy does not print anything (minetest.debug()), although it seems to call chairs.standup_player() !
17:04 Andrey01    hmm... is anybody around now?
18:14 MinetestBot Krock: Nov-07 20:49 UTC <tumeninodes> , I love the new glass... but you should have fixed obsidian glass door at the same time ;)  giddyup :D
18:15 Krock       !tell tumeninodes and while I'm already at it - replace the obsidian glass door, obsidian glass slabs and then rework obsidian (without glass) ...
18:15 MinetestBot Krock: I'll pass that on when tumeninodes is around
18:15 Krock       <3 MinetestBot
18:15 MinetestBot <3 Krock
18:46 Andrey01    question: how to rotate a node? for example, on right clicking it turns 90 degrees around Y axis
18:49 Krock       screwdriver
18:50 Andrey01    without screwdriver? is there any method that does it?
18:51 Andrey01    just on right click independently of what a player wields
18:51 Krock       set up a lookup table and change the param2 value of the node according to these values
19:28 xerox123    o/
20:30 benrob0329  sofar, to me the explanation for Apache 2.0's incompatibility still seems arbitrary, but this also seems like an issue from the FSF's way of declaring licenses "compatible"
20:33 benrob0329  I mean, why is it compatible with GPL 3, but not 2, and why is a more permissive license than either version (LGPL 2.1) not compatible, but version 3 is? but its not explicitly stated, and it sounds like it might be one way, but its one way for GPL 3
20:34 benrob0329  and depending on the reasons behind all of this, BSD, MIT, and other might have the same issue
20:34 nerzhul     hi benrob
20:36 benrob0329  From what I can gather, it might be because of the patent clauses in Apache 2, but it might also be because of the more permissive nature
20:36 benrob0329  and if it's the latter, its only one way
20:36 benrob0329  hello nerzhul
20:36 benrob0329  License compatibility research is fun...
20:38 benrob0329  For most licenses, you just need to make sure that all copyright statements are present (in the program somewhere for BSD), and that licenses for libraries are stated
20:38 benrob0329  but when GPL comes into the mix, things get waaay more complicated
20:42 benrob0329  https://developer.jboss.org/thread/147636?_sscc=t
20:42 benrob0329  looks like they might be fine if you don't have two licenses in the same file (which you should never do anyways)
20:44 benrob0329  Ok, I think I understand now
20:45 benrob0329  Apache 2.0 code can be included in GPL 3 (and most likely LGPL 2.1) projects because it is a permissive license and allows sub-licensing
20:46 benrob0329  However, GPL code cannot be included in an Apache 2.0 project because it is a more restrictive license, however I believe if the multi-licensed nature of the project was made explicit you would be fine.
20:47 benrob0329  In the end though, contributions to a project should always take on that project's license, making the whole issue null
20:52 Calinou     benrob0329: the reason not to use Apache 2 for Minetest mods is that it's seldom used in the community
20:52 Calinou     when it comes to licensing, it's usually good to follow the herd
20:53 benrob0329  the herd uses (or at least, did use) WTFPL
20:53 benrob0329  Many People still use WTFPL, or MIT, or LGPL, or CC0
20:54 benrob0329  but then people like VanessaE use BSD
20:54 Calinou     my mods use zlib but these days I'd use MIT
20:56 VanessaE    no I don't?
20:56 VanessaE    I usually use WTFPL + CC-by-SA
20:56 sofar       s/WTFPL/ISC/ please, if you can
20:56 benrob0329  VanessaE, I'm pretty sure I've seen your mods use BSD, but It might have been an adopted mod
20:56 VanessaE    sofar: meh...
20:57 sofar       wtfpl isn't even a license
20:57 VanessaE    benrob0329: most likely something I'd taken-up, yeah.
20:57 benrob0329  ISC is nice and small, but I though there was some controversy over a slightly vague statement
20:57 VanessaE    sofar: basically, I don't care what people do with my code.
20:57 sofar       I could sue you over it, in some countries
20:57 benrob0329  CC0 or ISC or MIT
20:58 benrob0329  BSD in this case is equivalent due to the fact that its a script, but compiled languages might be required to include a notice in the program itself
21:01 rubenwardy  VanessaE: what they code do is sue you for damages
21:01 rubenwardy  There's no warranty disclaimer
21:02 rubenwardy  The OSI also says it legally might as well be public domain
21:02 rubenwardy  So wtfpl isn't an OSI approved license
21:02 rubenwardy  Or a fsf approved one either
21:03 sofar       which is why in minetest-mods I've pretty much insisted that everything should be OSI
21:03 sofar       btw, great that people take the time to read the article I wrote and are discussing it
21:03 sofar       :D
21:04 benrob0329  Its a good article, I just feel that a few things should be better explained :-)
21:04 rubenwardy  *could
21:04 rubenwardy  (in my above message)
21:08 VanessaE    well, if I switch away from WTFPL, it'll be to CC0.
21:08 sofar       I want it to remain readable in a short amount of time
21:08 sofar       it shouldn't be a wikipedia article
21:09 sofar       so it will be a compromise
21:09 rubenwardy  Cc0 has similar issuee
21:10 sofar       as the article states, avoid CC- for code
21:10 Calinou     CC0 is less problematic for code but still not OSI-approved
21:10 * VanessaE  sighs
21:15 sofar       VanessaE: gheghe, we're giving you a hard time
21:15 sofar       we understand your motive, though
22:44 Jordach     Fixer: biggest case of rollsafe i've ever seen
22:44 * Jordach   taps forehead
23:01 VanessaE    sofar: you need links to ISC, AGPL, and others.
23:03 VanessaE    (found it anyway)
23:11 VanessaE    screw it.  LGPL 3.0+ for code, CC-by-SA 4.0+ for media.
23:11 VanessaE    I'll do that everywhere that I can
23:13 * VanessaE  pokes sofar
23:13 T4im        if you want to stay permissive MIT license is usually fine.. it's essentially "do what you want, expect no warranty though, and keep this notice around in the source files so noone else is expecting warranty either"
23:28 sofar       VanessaE: +10
23:28 VanessaE    you don't mention LGPL 3.0 on your post btw
23:28 VanessaE    (rather, 2.1)
23:34 benrob0329  I feel like we could use indexed PNGs as a colorization method
23:34 benrob0329  ie change the palette of the PNG, rather than colorizing the whole thing
23:39 sofar       lgpl-3 is not downgradeable to 2
23:40 sofar       but it's reasonable for mods, anyway
23:43 T4im        the problem i see is that there is a lot of copy-pasting going on; possibly by people that don't care that much about licenses
23:43 T4im        which might lead to awkward mix-scenarios for things like lgpl or gpl code
23:44 T4im        like someone taking lgpl code from one of VanessaE's mods, changing it a little and offering it up to another mod which might be licensed non-gpl
23:45 T4im        if that isn't noticed you end up with problems, you wouldn't have if that was permissively licensed code
23:45 Jordach     status of open source licensing 2018: https://xkcd.com/927/
23:50 sofar       tbh that's not really applicable to "oss licenses in 2018"
23:50 sofar       license changes have been slow as a slug